Maasdam Mechanical Problems

[yoleven]

I am trying to figure out how extensive the problems are with this ship as noted by Orcrone and others that sailed her recently and last summer. If there are CC members currently aboard who can update us on the mechanical problems please do. My wife and other family members depart 20 Nov from Norfolk. The engine problems with the turbine concern me the most and the possibility of missing a port or HMC due to slow speeds.:confused:

[jmvt]

:mad: We just returned from the Maasdam. We were one of the cabins with no air conditioning 7 out of 10 days. The other three days it was marginal. It was like a sauna in there. The only relief we could attempt was to lay on top of the bedding with wet washcloths on us. Miserable. No sleep.

The first 8 days the front desk absolutely would not tell us that there was a major problem. As we got to talking to people on our deck, I know for sure that cabins 012, 014, 016, 018, 019, 021 and 024 were affected. They would send repairmen to check and then some of the cabins would get a blue note attached to their thermostat stating the problem was "fixed.". We never received a note of any sort. The problem never was resolved. We do understand that mechanical things can happen, but to lie to all of us for 8 days and give us no response was really bad.

I own a sound soother machine with a digital thermometer on it and most days and nights, it hovered in the 78 degree area with no air moving in the room at all. Much too hot for sleeping. On the day we left Puerto Rico, it reached 85 degrees! That is the evening where many of us were at the front desk asking for answers.

On the 8th night the front desk admitted the chief engineer had said there is a problem and that it probably would not be fixed. The gal there handed us a business card for the customer relations person in Seattle. The ship can offer no shipboard credits, it all has to be done at the Seattle office. Had I been in a 5 star hotel, I would have checked out 6 days earlier---that is how miserable it was. Many of us thought we should all get into our bathrobes and go sleep in the Crow's Nest were there was a/c.

The 9th day I wrote to the customer realations person in Seattle. Still have not received any response from her. However, on the 10th and last day of the cruise we did receive a note under our door from the guest relations manager on the ship (who I had tried to contact many times---she was out sick they said) stating they "regret our engineering Dept. has not been able to adjust the temperature to your liking." That was the one and only piece of recognition we received in the 10 days. After not being able to speak with the Chief Engineer, Hotel Manager nor the Captain I wrote all three of them letters on three different days---no phone call, no return letter, no response whatsoever. That is the most dissapointing part. The customer service was non-existent.

This was our 13th cruise on Holland America and if you had asked me three weeks ago if I would ever cruise on another line, I would have told you NEVER! We were died in the wool HAL fans. My answer would not be the same today.

I met a travel agent on board who had filled 40 cabins with her clients. She was being bombarded with complaints from these people. She was in a meeting with other travel agents and the ship's management and she told them they had a revolt on their hands with how they were handling complaints. Their response was that "some of the complainers had been very rude at the front desk and so they just were not going to deal with these folks!" On the last day of the cruise the engineer stated to the travel agents that they were down to only 4 cabins without air conditioning. If they are able to detect that, then surely on days 1-9 they also knew who and where had no air conditioning.

I think all of us would have been left with a different impression if management had come forward on day 2 and admitted to the problem and offer some sort of peace offering....a bottle of champagne, a ship board credit....something!

We did not sign up for 10 days on the Sahara Desert. There should be some sort of compensation. We did not get what we paid for. We were in the most expensive cabins (short of the Penthouse) and treated poorly. We went for rest and relaxation, instead have arrived home exhausted from lack of sleep and frustration that it was handled really in the worst way.

This was on top of the rusty bath water, the jerry rigged refrigerator (had an extension cord drapped through the bar, out the vanit door, over the vanity stool , up the counter into the only outlet in the cabin), exposed electrical outlets in the hallways where children were playing, and the door lock that didn't work about 25% of the time (kept getting locked in and out of our cabin after asking three times to have it fixed.) We missed the Mariner's Society recognition affair because we were locked IN our cabin. Took 35 minutes for someone to come let us out. By then the party was over!

NUFF said. I will let you know how my letter to Seattle goes.

[Orcrone]

Being locked in a room is not an inconvenience, it's a safety hazard. God forbid there were a fire. There actually was a minor one on the Lido deck during the cruise.

BTW, sometimes when someone shows up on the board, and their first post is very negative, they get flamed. People accuse them of showing up and causing problems. I just want to add that from things said in this post I know this person, and she is not exagerating.

I hope that Seattle at least does something positive for you. Let us know when, and if you hear from them.

Marc

[Gsel]

We will also be very interested in any response you get from HAL. We are considering this ship or RSSC for next Fall and will not take the Massdam if the reports continue like this. My Uncle and his family were on the Massdam in October and they had a wonderful time but also has "issues" with the heat and air conditioning. It was not near as bad as you had, but was not very comfortable for a few days.
Thanks for your comments! Honesty and frankness is appreciated!

[Vic The Parrot]

How can one get locked IN the cabin??

From what I recall, it just takes 1 push of the handle, and the door unlocks, even if the deadbolt is in place.

Was there a problem with the electronic lock itself?

[jmvt]

Being locked in a room is not an inconvenience, it's a safety hazard. God forbid there were a fire. There actually was a minor one on the Lido deck during the cruise.

BTW, sometimes when someone shows up on the board, and their first post is very negative, they get flamed. People accuse them of showing up and causing problems. I just want to add that from things said in this post I know this person, and she is not exagerating.

I hope that Seattle at least does something positive for you. Let us know when, and if you hear from them.

Marc
Thank you so very much for the support, Marc. I was fully prepared for rebuttals about me being a picky traveler. Air condtioning is a "basic" comfort item and should be expected.

Those of us in these category "S" really appreciated you stepping in on the discussion at the front desk on night 8. Even though this did not affect you, you could see our desparation in the lack of customer service. Not even the slightest concern was shown to those of us living through this day after day.

So great meeting you on board!

[jmvt]

The door lock had a striker plate that was not screwed in properly (hanging loose and off kilter) so everything was out of alignment. Sometimes we could get in and out other times we were just stuck either in the hallway or in the room. Really frustrating when we were trying to go somewhere or get back into the room.

[iluvcruzin]

The doors had the ancient style locks on them - the ones with the plastic cards. We had a hard time getting ours to work on a regular bases to get into the room. Good thing the one bolt on the bathroom lock stayed in place (the other 4 were missing) or we'd be having some problems..

I'm glad you posted JMVT. I was waiting for your post. For the other readers.. this is one person who is a die-hard HAL fan. What is being presented is pure facts. Would I be concerned if I had an upcoming cruise on this ship? Maybe if a suite cabin is booked. If the next sailings have the same sort of issues I'd recommend downgrading to the veranda's until they get their act together.

(hope they compensate you JMVT.. say hi to freddie!)

[sail7seas]

JMVT....


I'm an HAL fan who adores Maasdam and have sailed her a great many times. We were on her last Thanksgiving for back-to-backs and again in July. We are booked again for back-to-backs in June. We are always in an "S".

We experienced a/c problems only once and that was last Thanksgiving. Out of a great many cruises on Maasdam, that was the only time our Suite did not have adequate a/c. It was repaired during our cruise.

I know you are being truthful and are not making up the fact your a/c did not work properly. I cannot comment as to the lack of customer service as I have no idea who HM currently is or GRM.

Who were they?

What Suite were you in if you don't mind my asking? (Hoping it isn't the one we have booked for June. :( )

Please keep us advised of any response you receive. Thank you for posting this message.

[jmvt]

Hi Maureen-

Hey---So nice of you to be so supportive of our "issues!"

We are still in recovery mode from this trip so I just got on the computer today. I wanted to thank you so very much for the Maasdam anchor magnet you gave us! That was sooo nice of you!

You and Marc were great to visit with that night outside. I know we were all "venting" a bit, but at least we all knew we were not alone.

My hubby thought you might work with Alan Faust?

Keep in touch!

Mary

[jmvt]

Hotel manager was Cess Tesselar . The Captain was Captain Van Der Loo. We saw both of them the very last day at the suite luncheon. My husband and I thought possibly those two would discuss our problems after we were introduced by the concierge. By then the two of them would have received my letters from earlier in the week. Not one word. No apology-nothing. If I ran my business like this I would have no clients whatsoever. After 13 cruises with them I was so disheartened at the total lack of concern.

I won't be looking for a voucher for a future cruise. I will be looking for a partial refund. The problems happened on this cruise. They've had my money for months and months and they force you to leave the ship with no resolution. If we were staying at a 5 star hotel, the reimbursement would happen before leaving the hotel.

The family staying on the starboard side on the other side of the Neptune Lounge had reached their limit as well. He marched into the Neptune Lounge and said, "Please don't say anything more, just listen to me. I am tired of the lies, I am tired of the excuses, I want the Captain down here to personally issue a refund. I don't want a voucher, I don't want a shipboard credit, I want a refund. If the Captain cannot authorize a credit before we leave this bucket of bolts, I will be calling my credit card company and file a dispute claim to have the entire charge for this cruise for my family removed." Later my husband saw the Captain escorting his wife back into their cabin. Never heard what happened. Wow-----wish I had had the nerve to say that!

[JohnR49er]

Hey Neighbor, cooled off yet????
I was Mary's next door neighbor. We had an S-Suite( stands for Sauna). I heard them rattling the door and trying to get out. She gave a pretty good run down of the conditions and responses that happened.

[Linda&Vern]

I'm just curious. Were any of the suite passengers that had malfunctioning A/C offered a "price adjustment" to move to another room (lower cat.) with working A/C? Or was the ship sold out? If the air in my room isn't working next month I know my DH and I will be sleeping out on some deck on the lounge chairs!

[jmvt]

No, we were not offered another room---trust me...I would have taken it!!! The couple we traveled with were in suite 021 with the same hot cabin. She did try to sleep out on the balcony two nights, but those lounge chairs are just not great sleeping lounges. It was 78 degrees outside most nights plus you have the humidity. At least you could catch a breeze out there!

[Vic The Parrot]

hope that issue would be adressed soon...

it seems pretty bizzare that HAL let something like that slip by them .... Could be the crew is under-staffed,and under-worked.

My last sailing on the old Rotterdam V was full of these things. Plumbing problems, no AC, loose bolts on the props, obnoxious passengers ....


Oh ... did I mention OBNOXIOUS PASSENGERS?

Perhaps if many of us 'ugly Americans' would learn to calm down a bit, and accept the fact that a ship IS a mechanical creature, then maybe the ills on board would be corrected in a better, and more civilized fashion.....


Look at it this way, we have it way better off than our counterparts who sailed the Atlantic in the 1st part of the 19th century.

Is there anyone on this board who knows what I'm talking about??
Anyone who sailed on the older ships... Statendam IV (1957)
Rotterdam V (1959) ... QUEEN MARY (1936) ... QUEEN ELIZABETH (1940) ... AQUITANIA (1914) ... CARONIA (1947) ....
KAISER WILHEM (1903) .... TITANIC (1912) .... NORMANDIE (1936)

We all knew about the circumstances about being on a ship in mid winter on the Atlantic, but we did it anyway. Now, we settle for a foating Holiday Inn, with a balcony, and expect the crew to treat us as though we were on holiday at a resort in Miami.

It could be that WE'RE the one's expecting too much.....
It could be be, that , due to OUR demands, we WANT more ....
It could be, that, ships are being replicated to our demands, and lifestyles that make all the new ships seem more impersonal.


Seriously, give this some thought, and let me know if we are headed to the right track.

[Krazy Kruizers]

jmvt

So sorry that you had such a bad time with the air conditioning on the Maasdam.

What cabin were you in?

Last fall we were in 006 - had a refrigerator where they knocked a hole through the wall into the dressing area to plug it in. No air problems.

This past May we were in 010 - again no air problems.

[Orcrone]

KK,

Mary posted that the cabins with A/C problems were 012, 014, 016, 018, 019, 021 and 024. We had a get together the last night of the cruise in an S suite with working A/C. People in cabins 16 and 20 were attending. They put their hand to the A/C vent in that cabin and made the comment that absolutely no air was coming out of their vents.

Vic, you may have some good points regarding some passenger expectations. However, there is no way that anyone is going to convince me that a passenger expecting air conditioning on a Caribbean cruise is expecting too much. As Mary said, prior to this cruise she had sailed with HAL 12 times and never had any thought of cruising with anyone else, so she is not someone with ridiculously high expectations.

Marc

[iluvcruzin]

Seriously, give this some thought, and let me know if we are headed to the right track.
Sorry Vic.. you lost me there. Are you trying to say that the passengers without A/C are expecting too much because people who sailed previously delt better with mechanical issues? I can't say if I agree with you or not because to me it makes no sense. There's a thing called basic expectations.

Talk about obnoxious passengers. Trust me.. these people were not being unreasonable. There was however a very obnoxious family in the suites near my cabin. They had A/C. Their problems delt with being rude to the staff and demanding unrealistic expectations as if they were due private butler service. On the 2nd day the wife demanded that she be served Diet Pepsi at a specific time and for Milk to be delivered on ice - not in ice. If they couldn't deliver, she wanted to know immediately. Then, they fought in the hallway. The grand parents were 2 doors down from them, the Nanny across the hall. The kids were playing in the hallway with a baby on a dirty public carpet. They left their cabin doors open as if to make it an open party. Problem is - they smoked and it stunk up the hallway. These people put their baby in the pool with a diaper with no regard for others. To top it off... They were smoking Pot where the smell filtered in the hallway (what they do is their business - sharing it with others is plain irritating). These people had the NERVE to tell others they contacted their lawyer and were going to sue the cruiseline. After 8 days of being annoyed I finally told the wife to knock it off and to keep their doors shut. I told her that her family has made it miserable for the passengers around them and screaming at the staff at 5:30am was uncalled for. I only approached these people because after repeat complaints to the staff they couldn't take care of the situation. Do I blame HAL for this? No.. this is something that could have happened on any ship and it was just my luck I ended up being next to them. Did it ruin my cruise? No. Would the lack of A/C? Absolutely.

(ok.. got that off my chest.. LOL!)

Mary - you are welcome! I do know Alan Faust. I don't work with him directly but have met with him a couple times.

[sail7seas]

Mary posted that the cabins with A/C problems were 012, 014, 016, 018, 019, 021 and 024. We had a get together the last night of the cruise in an S suite with working A/C. People in cabins 16 and 20 were attending. They put their hand to the A/C vent in that cabin and made the comment that absolutely no air was coming out of their vents.
Orcrone....I'm a little confused. Did you mean the people in cabins 16 and 20 who were at the party put their hand to the vent in THEIR OWN cabins or to the vent in the cabin where you had the PARTY?

The cabin we had a/c problems in last Thanksgiving was 020.

Thank you.

[lknick]

Iluvcruisin--It's pretty obvious you just didn't like the way the folks your described lived. You didn't like anything about their choices because they were not your choices. [This is not to condone their actions.]

But that wasn't Vic's point [which I concur with]. Granted, air conditioning is not an excessive desire, but when things go wrong, there was no call for the conversation reported above. So the Captain did not acknowledge the air conditioning problem. This 'demand' only shows the poster's narcissism. Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow.

[Orcrone]

Orcrone....I'm a little confused. Did you mean the people in cabins 16 and 20 who were at the party put their hand to the vent in THEIR OWN cabins or to the vent in the cabin where you had the PARTY?

The cabin we had a/c problems in last Thanksgiving was 020.

Thank you.Sail. The people from 16 and 20 (cabins without A/C) put their hand to the A/C vents in the cabin with the party (cabin 45). It was very obvious that cool air was blowing out of these vents. They said that in their own cabins (16 and 20) there was no air coming from those same vents. This may have nothing to do with it, but they also noticed a different type of thermostat in cabin 45 than was in 16 and 20.

Personally, after reading comments from you, from posters last spring and from those in the S suites on the Oct. 30 sailing, there is no way I would book any of those suites.

Some areas of the ship were warm, and some were cool, but that was fine. I could always put on, or take off, an article of clothing as necessary. However, it would not be a vacation for me if I had to return to a room with warm, stagnant air. I'm curious to learn if the problem gets fixed or if it goes on. Personally I think they're going to keep putting band-aids on the problems, literally. One cabin had a band-aid repairing a leak in a hair dryer hose. Other cabins had long extension cords running to another part of the room for the refrigerator. To me it appears there is a complete lack of pride in the product.

It's time that HAL move some people around, keep those rooms empty and repair what needs to be repaired. Signature of Excellence means nothing if basic amenities are neglected.

[elmorejj]

We sailed BtoB on the Maasdam last Dec. and I have to say it is by far my least favorite of all HAL ships. We also had the long extension cord hanging around from where the frig was jerry rigged, quite dangerous in my estimation. The 2 weeks we were on board, the dry cleaning machines were broken...for the whole time. As we were on for 2 sailings, I had expected to have some clothing dry cleaned, to lessen my load. No such luck. I sent the clothing out on 3 different occasions, and the steward said it would be fixed "tomorrow". By now all of the items were wrinkled and beyond wear on this cruise, so now what do we do? After talking to the Head Housekeeper...not a friendly sort...they agreed to have my DHs tux cleaned ashore in Puerto Rico, That was all they would do. Not good cust. rels. IMO. Our A/C was less than good also. For me? never again on the Maasdam, it should be going where the Noordam is going.....jean :cool:

[peaches from georgia]

We sailed BtoB on the Maasdam last Dec. and I have to say it is by far my least favorite of all HAL ships.......jean :cool:
Wow, jean. If you remember we took our b2b the same weeks on the Oosterdam last Dec. as you were on the Maasdam. I just had no idea you felt this way and had had all these problems. Then again, I'm sure you said it in your review- I can barely remember yesterday. ;)

I do respect your opinions as you know. So what are your favorite HAL ships, in order if possible. We are already booked in 2005 on 2 HAL ships, both new for us, and I am excited about both, but would love to know your list of favorites (and not so favorites). :D

I will add we were on the Maasdam in June and had none of these a/c or plumbing problems and we were in a suite, so maybe we were just lucky that week.

[sail7seas]

I'm happy we chose to book other than 020 for June. When we were choosing which cabin, it was empty along with several others for the dates of our b-to-b's. Good I decided to not return to 020 and picked a different number.

[Orcrone]

Granted, air conditioning is not an excessive desire, but when things go wrong, there was no call for the conversation reported above. So the Captain did not acknowledge the air conditioning problem. This 'demand' only shows the poster's narcissism. Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow.Narcissism:

1. self-admiration: excessive self-admiration and self-centeredness
2. personality disorder: in psychiatry, a personality disorder characterized by the patient’s overestimation of his or her own appearance and abilities and an excessive need for admiration. In psychoanalytic theory, emphasis is placed on the element of self-directed sexual desire in the condition.

Ilknick. I am very impressed at your ability to determine Mary's psychological problem based upon her above post.:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

Granted, air conditioning is not an excessive desire, but when things go wrong, there was no call for the conversation reported above. So the Captain did not acknowledge the air conditioning problem. This 'demand' only shows the poster's narcissism. Sometimes, you just have to go with the flow.
No, you don't. When a basic service is both not delivered nor acknowledged, "going with the flow" is simply acquiescing in the decline in service. I'm not suggesting that berating a clerk or steward is ever acceptable, but a note to the Hotel Manager is certainly in order.

-dave

[lknick]

Which Orcrone is speaking...Mr. or Mrs.?

Re-read the quote attributed to another passenger. I would say that 'excessive self-admiration and self-centeredness' applies. A paraphrase of the quote is "I want my way right now!"

Of course, this is only an observation. What do I know?

[dakrewser]

Perhaps if many of us 'ugly Americans' would learn to calm down a bit, and accept the fact that a ship IS a mechanical creature, then maybe the ills on board would be corrected in a better, and more civilized fashion.....
Look at it this way, we have it way better off than our counterparts who sailed the Atlantic in the 1st part of the 19th century.
And our plumbing is better than that in the 16th century - but I would still object to raw sewage backing up into my cabin!

Things do go wrong, Things break. But service personnel are supposed to be there to fix them. When they aren't, we are allowed to voice our displeasure.

-dave

[elmorejj]

Peaches, Having a favorite ship, I think, depends a lot on what type of experiences you have on that particular ship. That being said, I still think the Rotterdam is my all time favorite, with the Volendam, Zaandam and Veendam bringing up the rest of my favorites. Haven`t tried a Vista class yet, but I know you enjoyed the Oosterdam last Dec. and I think I would like to try the westerdam. Waiting for friends who will cruise the Wester. to return and tell me all about it.....jean :cool:

[peaches from georgia]

Thanks, jean. The Rotterdam is also our all time favorite ship, HAL or otherwise. We did enjoy our Oosterdam b2b, but that is because we enjoy every cruise, some more than others.

We have absolutely NO plans for another Vista ship cruise. There was just way too much we didn't like about the Oo. Also have no present plans for another 7 day HAL Caribbean cruise, even another b2b. Two 7 days are not the same as a 14 day, but never say never. For a 7 day Caribbean cruise I think we will try another cruiseline the next time.

Right now we are looking forward to a 10 day Volendam and 14 day Veendam! ;)

[Orcrone]

Which Orcrone is speaking...Mr. or Mrs.?

Re-read the quote attributed to another passenger. I would say that 'excessive self-admiration and self-centeredness' applies. A paraphrase of the quote is "I want my way right now!"

Of course, this is only an observation. What do I know?Mr. Orcrone - for what it's worth. DW does not frequent these boards (actually does not frequent the computer all that much).

I thought your comment was regarding the poster, and not the person the poster overheard. However, after directly hearing the spewing of excuses by the front office and the 'claims' by maintenance that the problem was fixed when they had not done anything, I can understand the frustration that these people were feeling.

Keep in mind that this person did not just have a problem pop up, and demanded it be fixed immediately. By now this person had brought this problem up numerous times without resolution, just excuses and lies.

[Krazy Kruizers]

From reading all the various posts this past week concerning the Maasdam it does sound like the ship should either be sold or taken out of service for awhile and completely everhaul her. Of course I realize that overhauling a ships takes a few months and HAL would lose money on her, but at the rate things are going and with all the complaints, HAL may end up losing money on through refunds or future ship vouchers if enough people complain.

[Krazy Kruizers]

sail7seas

I'm glad to hear that you didn't select 020 for your June cruises. Hopefully you didn't pick one of the others that were on that list and everything will be alright for you.

[iluvcruzin]

Iluvcruisin--It's pretty obvious you just didn't like the way the folks your described lived. You didn't like anything about their choices because they were not your choices. [This is not to condone their actions.]
Not that I didn't like how they lived... I didn't like the screaming and hollaring that occurred daily outside my cabin door that I had to listen to. I'm a non-smoker and would appreciate being able to open the cabin door and walk down what I thought was a public non-smoking hallway without someone blowing smoke in my face (they actually smoked in the hallway as well as leaving the door open). I don't care if they smoke, cuss, scream, have fussy babies.. Those considerate of others would keep it in their their cabins. To note - by the time I complained (which I didn't demand anything, I asked for assistance), the neptune lounge staff and the front staff had a long list of complaints against these people. It was only after 2 days after the request that my daughter and I had enough and I said something on the way to dinner. So really it had nothing to do with their lifestyle.. it was about the experience. (I wasn't relating Vic's post to this situation.. just talking about what obnoxious people I ran into).

[peaches from georgia]

It sounds like almost all cabins midship/Neptune Lounge area are affected, particularly on port side. There must be one central switch or connection that affects the a/c in a large bloc of suites- like when the electricity goes out for all of one section of your neighborhood and not anywhere else. One repair part fixes it for all, finfing what to fix is the problem. :eek:

[sail7seas]

Thankfully, KK........


Our cabin number was not among those listed. Phew!!! :) But it is in the 'general area' of the others. :eek:

[sail7seas]

These a/c problems on Maasdam are not brand new. As I mentioned, we experienced it last November and have heard of some people having problems on previous cruises but our a/c was fine. on all cruises except that one.


BTW.....we ALWAYS take a mid-ship port side Suite. We have been in every one of the "S" between numbers 018 and 028 more times than I remember.

[jmvt]

lknick-



Wow....I am narcissistic because the captain did not acknowlege the lack of air conditioning for 7 days? That does not even make sense. Thanks Marc for your input. I am not some crazy, out of control tourist with unrealistic expectations. I have had 12 other lovely cruises on HAL and was so happy we had booked this 13th one.



I do realize that mechanical problems do happen, but for the front desk to lie to us for 8 days that there was "no problem" is what irritated us. Mechanics aside....it is the lack of customer service that concerns me.



I see you live in Florida "lknick". Picture this cruise.....you arrive at your category "S" suite on day one. You find that the thermostat is stuck at 32 degrees, you cannot open your sliding door to get any heat and no blankets will be provided to you to keep warm. You ask for help for 10 days and the front desk keeps telling you there have been no problems reported by the ship's engineer so there is not a problem. Would this upset you? Would you feel ok withthe premium price you had paid for this suite? You have to admit you would be mighty uncomfortable with this situation. You have gone for rest and relaxation and for most of the 10 days you are miserable from the cold. This is what all these cabins went through for 7 of the 10 days with stifling heat.

[ekerr19]

For me? never again on the Maasdam, it should be going where the Noordam is going.....jean :cool:

I was pleasantly surprised at the condition of the Noordam - no problems with A/C, other than the Piet Hein & Silver Bar being cold/cool in the early evening, but as the staff explained, once you get a hundred people or so in there dancing, it has a tendency to become too warm. Everything seemed to be in good order.

When we were on the Maasdam last April, the dry cleaning machine was also broken the entire voyage... many of the elevators were out of service for the entire cruise, and we also heard the complaints of non existent A/C in some of the Suites - this was 7 months ago!

Hmmm, makes you wonder how long it takes to fix something, doesn't it? If these are ongoing problems, they should be addressed and fixed immediately - why bring on group after group of pax only to have them unsatisfied and unhappy?

[jmvt]

Maureen-



I know of the family and nanny you are speaking of. They literally took over the Neptune Lounge every day. Poor D.J. had to clean up after their children and food all over the floor. They took over that big table in there like it was their personal domain. They were very demanding and obnoxious. It affected that entire deck with their yelling and pot smoking. Our traveling companions were on that side and said it was just awful.



Mary

[ekerr19]

Did anyone report the pot smoking to ships security? I'm just curious because I would have. Before I get blasted for not approving of someone else's "lifestyle" - unless I am missing something, it is against the law.

I also would not want myself nor my family subjected to it. Apparently these folks didn't realize they could be arrested for it?

[jmvt]

Yes, the folks in cabin 041 reported the pot spoking along with a lady un 019 I believe and they were told there was nothing they could do to stop them from smoking pot while on board. Something to do with being on the high seas and no jurisdiction.

[jhannah]

They took over that big table in there like it was their personal domain. They were very demanding and obnoxious. It affected that entire deck with their yelling and pot smoking.That's ridiculous! Surely HAL is not so hard up for operating capital that they wouldn't put the whole lot of them off at the next port of call.

[peaches from georgia]

We were very disappointed on the Maasdam that there is nothing done about behavior that clearly is way out of line and makes the enjoyment of that area of the ship impossible for the rest of the pax.

There was a large family group in suites on the Maasdam our week and the Neptune Lounge was a disaster all of the time they were in there, which was often. A screaming brat about 6 or 7 was running around with the remote for the food dome, raising it up and down, up and down, until there was definetely the chance of damage. The rest of this family took over the whole lounge, feet up on the tables, loud conversation, tv blaring, etc.

The concierge just sat there day after day and said nothing. I thought the least she could have done is keep this kid from getting his hands on the remote, so that other suite guests might be able to enjoy the food while these idiots were in there.

I just don't understand HAL's very shortsighted policy- fear of making one very small group angry, meanwhile the rest of the pax are fuming.

[elmorejj]

I hope they had dog sniffers at the port during disembarkation, For sure, the smell would still be in their clothing and personal items.....jean :cool:

[iluvcruzin]

Did anyone report the pot smoking to ships security? I'm just curious because I would have. Before I get blasted for not approving of someone else's "lifestyle" - unless I am missing something, it is against the law.

I also would not want myself nor my family subjected to it. Apparently these folks didn't realize they could be arrested for it?Yes, I as well as one of Mary's friends from the cabin next to them talked to the front desk and they dispatched them (it was me in 039). Security came up and listen to the complaints but could do nothing unless they saw it in the open and it was disrupting others. They said they would talk to them. We just had to take their word for it. I can say we didn't smell it again after that. As far as it being illegal, I don't believe it is on the open sea. I've been on other sailings where people do it outdoors (I have no problem with that as the wind can disapate it in matter of seconds). But to leave the cabin door open for the odor to float through the hallways.. it provided a stinky situation. :(

[ekerr19]

I cannot believe ships security would do nothing about the pot smoking... We had a problem with an underage drinker who was also a passenger tripping teen on the Zui and ships security told his family to shape him up or off the ship they all would go!

Peaches -

I am constantly amazed by this behavior too. It's almost as if people think a public place is a mere extension of their personal space. We had the same type of families with kids on the Zui - I am often surprised when I read most people aren't bothered by this type of behavior. If my children acted like this - well, I guess I'm not sure what I do to them! They know better, thankfully.

[ekerr19]

Yes, I as well as one of Mary's friends from the cabin next to them talked to the front desk and they dispatched them (it was me in 039). Security came up and listen to the complaints but could do nothing unless they saw it in the open and it was disrupting others. They said they would talk to them. We just had to take their word for it. I can say we didn't smell it again after that. As far as it being illegal, I don't believe it is on the open sea. I've been on other sailings where people do it outdoors (I have no problem with that as the wind can disapate it in matter of seconds). But to leave the cabin door open for the odor to float through the hallways.. it provided a stinky situation. :(

Maureen-

I was posting and didn't see your post... this sounds a bit more reasonable. I understand they (security) would have to observe or smell it - at least they talked to the offenders and hopefully it stopped. What a shame to have this happen period.

[dakrewser]

From reading all the various posts this past week concerning the Maasdam it does sound like the ship should either be sold or taken out of service for awhile and completely everhaul her.
I don't know about "overhaul". Reading what the Ryndam has been like since it came out of drydock - missing screws, sticking doors, A/C problems galore - the cure could be worse than the disease!

-dave

[sail7seas]

I do not know the answers but questions I have re: the pot smoking are:

Seeing as the ship is registered in Rotterdam, Holland;
Seeing as pot smoking is legal in Holland;
Is pot smoking legal upon this Dutch Registered ship while on the high seas. Probably would not be legal while docked in port but when on the seas??? Does HAL have to agree to abide by U.S. laws and to have pax abide by U.S. laws or turn them over to U.S. authorities at next U.S. port if they wish to continue to operate out of a U.S. homeport? Or because their corporate headquarters are in Seattle...in the U.S.?

I have no clue the answers.

[Vic The Parrot]

Hi gang


Just want to let you all know it wasn't my intention to stir the pot on this issue. It was kinda late when I responded to this post, and I guess I had misconceptions regarding the topic.

I know there is a big difference between malfunctioning AC, and Acts of God. So, it was relating passenger gripes to something the crew had no control over.

You might say I was equating this over the mishaps I witnessed on my Bermuda trip. Let me say the voyage was rough.
Not rough, ROUGH ... 20-30 ft swells ... the sound of the waves crashing on the hull .... things flying across the cabin ....
placing all loose objects on the floor, or under the bed...

But anyway, it was so rough, some of the pax had the audacity to
downright yell at the front office staff. "You people have no clue how to sail this thing!" ..... "The captain is a moron!" ...
"Why didn't the ship try to avoid the storm.... etc"

You might say we were fortunate to reach land, and what was waiting for us out there was just a freak occurence. Now I know that some things can't be controlled. But hothouse cabins can make anyone irate.

So, again, please accept my apology.

[JohnR49er]

I was the unlucky occupant of suite 020. It once was a premium spot, right Sail? Neptune Lounge a few feet away for coffee and ...........

I had a thought after we arrived home and had a chance to cool off (LOL). I believe the problem may have stemmed from the building of the Neptune Lounge. Basically the suites near it were the ones that had the A/C problems. I just wonder when they tore out a few of those inside cabins and added the lounge if they didn't figure out the duct work and balancing of the system. Also there had to be piping removed from the toilets and showers in those rooms. Maybe that explains some of the plumbing problems? I'll leave it up to the HAL historians on board here to maybe confirm the timeline of adding the Neptune and the A/C and plumbing problems surfacing. Right now I'm betting they are connected.

I have posted the problems I saw and agree with all I've read from my fellow passengers. I must say that I knew once these negative posts appeared it would probably start a debate as it always does. At least hopefully we can agree to disagree on our HAL experiences. It doesn't always have to be Defenders vs Bashers does it? There is middle ground.

[lknick]

I'm a non-smoker and would appreciate being able to open the cabin door and walk down what I thought was a public non-smoking hallway without someone blowing smoke in my face (they actually smoked in the hallway as well as leaving the door open) Some smokers would construe this a typical rabid non-smoker attitude.

But, you are right, there are obnoxious people in the world who have no consideration of others. Neither you nor I will change this. But truthfully, you disapproved of these folk’s habits. If you hadn’t, you would have overlooked some of the problems you enumerated and maybe even forgiven them.

lknick-Wow....I am narcissistic because the captain did not acknowlege [sic] the lack of air conditioning for 7 days? That does not even make sense. Then why are you challenging and ridiculing my conclusion? IMO, if this did not concern you, you would have ignored it. I see you live in Florida "lknick". Yes, I have a home in Fort Myers as in other places. But what does this have to do with your analogy? You ask for help for 10 days and the front desk keeps telling you there have been no problems reported by the ship's engineer so there is not a problem. Would this upset you? Nope, but I would have taken an action other than an emotional one. I too, for days, have had problems with air conditioning. It was on the maiden voyage of the Amsterdam. Finally, I searched out the chief engineer and after an amenable chat, the problem was identified but not fixed. It was simply a design flaw, which was I guess ultimately taken care of. And I did receive some compensation from HAL for my inconvenience, initiated by the Chief Engineer.

[DFD1]

Over the years, I have found it startling what people can get away with once in international water. It seems that because of the questionable jurisdiction, security people of all stripes and in all situations would rather just look the other way.

There is a danger in this mind-set for all of us. It's a cause for caution to say the least. Often times there is no one around willing to look after you....best be careful to look out for yourself.

We always try and run from potential trouble first and talk about whether we made the right decision later.

I realize this does not apply in the suite situation on the Maasdam. HAL should have some firm policies about one passenger or group of passengers disturbing another.

What happened there was nuts in my opinion and Hal should be taken to task for it.

[Lefty Bob]

Re: Pot smoking and the law
At sea the Captain is the law and something could be done if he wanted to.
Lefty Bob

[jmvt]

lknick-

Trust me...we all tried our best to see the Chief Engineer. We left many messages, letters. What can we do if he chooses not to appear? We tried later to speak with the Hotel Manager and also the Captain. No phone calls, no returned letters....that's what I am saying... we were totally ignored.

[lknick]

lknick-Trust me...we all tried our best to see the Chief Engineer. We left many messages, letters. What can we do if he chooses not to appear? We tried later to speak with the Hotel Manager and also the Captain. No phone calls, no returned letters....that's what I am saying... we were totally ignored.Given that, your experience was indeed unfortunate. I tracked mine down while he and the second engineer were having dinner on the Lido but I was on the prowl for a day when I spotted him.

[Krazy Kruizers]

As I mentioned - the overhaul is for a few months - not like the Ryndam for a few weeks when they added the mew spa area, etc.

The overhaul would be to work on the engines, plumbing, etc. - not add new things.

Overhauls take months.

And the Maasdam sounds like she needs to be pulled from the water for along period of time or be sold.

HAL some other older ships which are really starting to show their age.

Instead of worring about the SOE program, maybe HAL should consider what and how to take care of these older ships and for how long.

[Krazy Kruizers]

It is very hard to do anything about "pot" smokers on the open seas. And it is very hard to catch them in the act.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I am affraid that if those children and their nanny started to take over the large table they would have a problem with me. If the concierge won't take care of the problem, I wouldn't stop at saying something to the nanny and I would also make it a point to to talk to the parents. I will use the large table and no child (or children) will take over the table or the Neptune Lounge. I have learned to get tough in my old age.

[lknick]

It is very hard to do anything about "pot" smokers on the open seas. And it is very hard to catch them in the act. Cannabis smoking is legal in some of the provinces of the Netherlands. The ship is a Dutch flagged ship. US law outside of the three mile limit means nothing.

[sail7seas]

Cannabis smoking is legal in some of the provinces of the Netherlands. The ship is a Dutch flagged ship. US law outside of the three mile limit means nothing.

As I previously posted:


I do not know the answers but questions I have re: the pot smoking are:

Seeing as the ship is registered in Rotterdam, Holland;
Seeing as pot smoking is legal in Holland;
Is pot smoking legal upon this Dutch Registered ship while on the high seas. Probably would not be legal while docked in port but when on the seas??? Does HAL have to agree to abide by U.S. laws and to have pax abide by U.S. laws or turn them over to U.S. authorities at next U.S. port if they wish to continue to operate out of a U.S. homeport? Or because their corporate headquarters are in Seattle...in the U.S.?

I have no clue the answers.
__________________



I wish someone who truly knows of what they are speaking would sharethe response to us about whether it is possible HAL must agree to abide by U.S. law even when the ship is in International Waters in order to have an amiable relationship with U.S. Coast Guard and U.S. authorities.

Could they be denied access to U.S. ports if they do not agree and abide?

[JohnR49er]

I thought there were alot of people giggling on Navigation deck. Explains why the munchies in the Neptune vanished so fast..........:D

[Momohns]

S7S, although the official Holland/Netherlands site (holland.com) mentions that "soft drugs" are legal in Holland, it also mentions that drinking alcohol is allowed for 16-year-olds in Holland, while HAL requires passengers to be 21 to be served alcohol on board.

The HAL website in its Cruise and Cruisetour Contract area (http://www.hollandamerica.com/policies/cruise.do), does state under "Baggage" that "Radioactive materials, controlled substances (other than lawfully obtained prescription drugs), firearms and illicit materials are strictly prohibited."

[dakrewser]

[b]I wish someone who truly knows of what they are speaking would sharethe response to us about whether it is possible HAL must agree to abide by U.S. law even when the ship is in International Waters in order to have an amiable relationship with U.S. Coast Guard and U.S. authorities.

Could they be denied access to U.S. ports if they do not agree and abide?
A ship on the high seas is subject only to international maritime law until it enters within the territorial waters of a country.

-dave

[sail7seas]

So....Seeing as all (except for Veendam, I think) HAL ships are Registered in Rotterdam, Netherlands, and pot smoking is legal there, one might think that pot smoking on HAL ships might be legal as long as it is done outside the three mile limit??


(Just for the record.......:) No, I do not wish to smoke pot on board or anywhere else for the matter.) But for some reason this 'legal' question is interesting me.

[Krazy Kruizers]

The Neptune Lounge was added in Oct 2003. We were on the 2nd cruise after she came out of dry dock. The Neptune Lounge had problems. It was very hot most of the time - never cool. The TV kept going off and on. The lights flickered nearly every day. We did back-to-backs on the Maasdam. The second Sunday while passengers were getting on the ship, the electricity when out completely in the Neptune Lounge. Our concierge had to use her computer light to read the names of the new passengers. Workmen were constantly in there trying to solve the various problems.

SO - it does make one wonder if the problems in the suites in the area by the Neptune Lounge developed after its instillation???

The Ryndam and Statendam had their Neptune Lounges added in 2002 in Seattle. We have been on both of those ships and there never was a problem with the air or anything else in there. The Maasdam had her Neptune Lounge added while she was in the Bahamas. Wonder if that makes a difference?

[Esme]

Cannabis smoking is legal in some of the provinces of the Netherlands. The ship is a Dutch flagged ship. US law outside of the three mile limit means nothing.



That's baloney. I asked the Captain of one of the ships this question yesterday and here's his reply.

It's illegal, same as serving liquor to minors.

[lknick]

There is a difference between corporate policy and law. 'Illegal' is not the same as a violation of company policy.

HAL can take any position on any activity on their boats at long as it does not violate the laws of the ships flagging. For instance, they can restrict drinking to 21 even though 16 is the legal age in the Netherlands. They cannot, however, reduce the age to 14.

However, the prevailing law in internatonal waters is of the country in which the ship is flagged, no matter what any employee may say.

[ekerr19]

As I previously posted:






[b]I wish someone who truly knows of what they are speaking would sharethe response to us about whether it is possible HAL must agree to abide by U.S. law even when the ship is in International Waters in order to have an amiable relationship with U.S. Coast Guard and U.S. authorities.

Could they be denied access to U.S. ports if they do not agree and abide?
Sail-

Thanks, I agree with you - I cannot fathom some of the posts on this thread regarding this...

Does anyone know for a certainty?

[ekerr19]

S7S, although the official Holland/Netherlands site (holland.com) mentions that "soft drugs" are legal in Holland, it also mentions that drinking alcohol is allowed for 16-year-olds in Holland, while HAL requires passengers to be 21 to be served alcohol on board.

The HAL website in its Cruise and Cruisetour Contract area (http://www.hollandamerica.com/policies/cruise.do), does state under "Baggage" that "Radioactive materials, controlled substances (other than lawfully obtained prescription drugs), firearms and illicit materials are strictly prohibited."
Thank you! Now this makes sense to me.

[sail7seas]

Maritime Law is very detailed and extremely specialized. There are a handful of truly knowledgable Maritime Lawyers in various regions. I hope for the chance to ask a Maritime Lawyer to get a response to my question.


I cannot imagine why I am so interested but I do want a reply I can rely on.

[lknick]

Sail, try wandering through this site and others like it. http://www.admiraltylawguide.com/industry.html
That way you'll become the expert.

[sail7seas]

Thank you for the link, lknick. I doubt I'll become expert but I will enjoy 'wandering' through the link. I think I'll find it interesting.

[peaches from georgia]

Having no desire to 'push the envelope' while on vacation in order to show I could win in court using the fine points of maritime law, I think I'll just stick with the fact that the Captain rules the roost on his ship and follow his wishes.

Haven't yet heard of a regulation on any HAL ship that seems unreasonable. I just wish more of the rules and regs were enforced.

[elmorejj]

Couldn`t agree more, Peaches, thank you...jean :cool:

[gizmo]

Like Jean I have to agree. Peaches, you have the right idea. :)

[sail7seas]

Having no desire to 'push the envelope' while on vacation in order to show I could win in court using the fine points of maritime law, I think I'll just stick with the fact that the Captain rules the roost on his ship and follow his wishes.For me, this is an intellectual exercise. It is of interest to me to learn more about. I am not a 'push the envelope' sort of person. Most folks who have hung around here and read a few thousand of my posts probably got the impression someplace along the way I am of the cautious and law-abiding ilk.

Sometimes a particular subject is more interesting to a person. This interests me. It does not interest me to 'push the envelope'.

So, Peaches, Gizmo and Jean...... it seems we agree. :)

[lknick]

I for one am happy when others try to enhance their knowledge base as is Sail.

IMO, there's just too much shooting from the hip on this board and in the world. Oh yes, I know the power of opinions, but again imo opinions just don't trump fact.

So go to it, Sail.

[peaches from georgia]

I obviously was speaking only for myself. I have lots of intellectual pursuits, too, none of which have a thing to do with Maritime Law, as I think we all can count on the fact that the Captain is still going to run the show on his ship. But, let us know what you find out.

[Cinder]

For what it is worth, I was in suite 11 on the same cruise, and had no problems at all with my A/C, so book that cabin!

[waltl]

AS infro I was in Cabin 04 on that same cruise; we had no a/c problem. In fact from our point of view the cruise was among the best of the 18 we have taken.

We did not use many of the suite "extras" beyond an occassional cup of coffee and some pleasant conversation with DJ.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

Sorry for joining this thread late, but here's my two cents...

As for the drugs/laws on ship question - as was pointed out, people on board ships must follow the laws of the country in which the ship is registered (in this case, the Netherlands) when at sea. A shipowner can certainly enforce additional regulations (drinking age comes to mind), they just can't reduce or eliminate laws.

As for the A/C problems... We sailed the Maasdam this past July. Enjoyed the ship and trip immensely. However, we experienced two distinct A/C problems on board. The first was sailing day. All was well when we first entered our cabin on embarkation day (529, inside Main Deck forward). But when we returned to our room before dinner after sailing to change it was noticably warm and stuffy. Others in the area (across the hall) were also complaining. A trip to the Front Office confirmed there was a problem and that the engineering department was working on it. Sure enough, after dinner, all was fixed, and the A/C was fine the rest of the trip in our cabin.

The second problem occurred late in the cruise - arrived for dinner in the lower level of the dining room at 6PM, and it was noticably warm and stuffy. It remained that way for the entire meal. Although I could feel the cooler air begin to blow later in the meal, it had a lot of catching-up to do with a full room at the dinner hour! Didn't notice any more problems after that.

The Maasdam is hardly "old" or "falling apart" at 11 years of age. I sailed twice on the old Pacific Princess in 2000 and 2002. In 2002, she was 31 years old. As a maritime academy graduate, I pay attention to the workings of the ship I'm traveling on. What impressed me about the PP was how well the A/C worked (almost too well!). Because of her small size and layout, I observed the refrigeration and air conditioning engineer (yes, they had a such a position) frequently making the rounds on the top decks (above the Sun Deck, where the ventilation machine rooms were located). He would also go the bridge wing and check the temperature and the wet-bulb (for humidity). Presumably, this was so that he could ensure things were adjusted properly. Point is, I noticed him and what he was doing every day, and it was clear his efforts were paying off. I'm not saying they don't do this on the Maasdam - a bigger, more modern ship, with more hidden "behind-the-scenes" areas, so I probably didn't notice. However, given the problems with the A/C on the Maasdam over the last year, they probably need to give the whole system a good going over, and assign an engineer to stay on top of it...

Sorry for the long post - just another view...

[Me & Him]

For what it is worth, I was in suite 11 on the same cruise, and had no problems at all with my A/C, so book that cabin!

Thanks so very much for the information on suite 11. We have it booked for the cruise departing on 30 Nov 2004. It will be our second time in this suite.

[lknick]

ShipsAreTheBest--Nice to have a Kings Point graduate on the board. Maritime issues often come up on this board and it will be nice to have a factual take.

[ShipsAreTheBest]

lknick - Thanks for the kind sentiments - but I didn't go to Kings Point - I went to New York Maritime at Fort Schuyler - across LI Sound from KP!