Passengers overboard - Two separate incidents

[Copper10-8]

FYI

CNN) -- A cruise ship resumed its voyage to Cozumel, Mexico, on Tuesday after the Coast Guard released it from the search for a 50-year-old woman believed to have fallen overboard late Monday.
Passengers on the Carnival cruise ship Holiday were told that the missing person had not been found.
The Coast Guard identified the woman as Michelle Vilborg of Bay Minette, Alabama. Two Coast Guard ships, two planes and a helicopter had been searching an area of more than 1,200 square miles about 75 miles south-southwest of Pensacola, Florida.
A U.S. Coast Guard spokesman told CNN the search began after a crew member heard a loud splash near the vessel late Monday.
The Holiday, which sailed from Mobile, Alabama, stopped and passengers were told to return to their cabins for a head count, a passenger said. On Tuesday, a note from the ship's captain, Carmelo Marino, was slipped under the doors of passenger cabins, briefing them on the situation.
After circling in Gulf (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/gulf_of_mexico) waters Tuesday, the Holiday was released by the Coast Guard about noon. The Coast Guard continued searching for the missing woman.
Vilborg is believed to have fallen about 10:30 p.m. Monday, and boats were launched from the cruise ship to search nearby waters. The Coast Guard (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/u_s_coast_guard) said it joined the search around 11 p.m.

In a separate incident Monday, rescuers found a passenger who had fallen off another Carnival (http://topics.cnn.com/topics/carnival_corporation) cruise ship. The man had climbed a railing for a better a view of the scenery and slipped into the water near Tampa, Florida, the Coast Guard said.
The passenger was found clinging to a sea buoy and was taken to a hospital with cuts on his arms.

[Cruising-along]

:( I hate to hear these stories. I feel bad for the families and all involved.

Didn't CC just recently have a poll question asking "do you worry about falling overboard?" I remember answering "no, because I'm always careful" or something similar to that wording.

[jhannah]

In most cases, alcohol is involved. Very sad, and even more so when you consider that more personal restraint could prevent this happening in the first place.

[suse]

He's right, you know. This whole issue is rather distressing. I really think most things in life are funny, or can be, and I make sure to laugh it off, but not death and serious illness and terrible things. This is truly a tragedy for the families involved. So sorry to learn about this.

[jtl513]

Didn't CC just recently have a poll question asking "do you worry about falling overboard?" I remember answering "no, because I'm always careful" or something similar to that wording.
I think I have yet to hear of a case where some degree of stupidity or hostility wasn't involved. When I hear of someone going overboard because a railing gave way, or something of that nature, then I'll start to worry about my own safety in this regard! :)

[Copper10-8]

He's right, you know. This whole issue is rather distressing. I really think most things in life are funny, or can be, and I make sure to laugh it off, but not death and serious illness and terrible things. This is truly a tragedy for the families involved. So sorry to learn about this.

One of the two was found alive! The one that climbed the railing "to get a better view"

[bcd2010]

This made me think of an incident onboard almost 10 years ago that almost gave me a heart attack! A toddler, maybe 2 years old, was making a game of falling towards the railing and grabbing on (to the lowest of 3 bars on the railing -- no netting or other barrier), then squealing with delight and clapping. Her father stood about 3 feet from her, laughing and clapping with her whenevr she grabbed it. All I could think of was how easily she could have missed and tumbled overboard. I still feel the blood run cold in my veins when I think of it. (A crew member said something to her father and they quit. Yes, someone had to suggest to him that it might be dangerous!)

[prescottbob]

...going overboard (accidental or otherwise).

The following link will forward you to a rather somber article on a competing cruise ship message board.

For those not wishing to deal with cruise ship suicides please skip this link/post. It's just an FYI.

http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/20090528880/suicide-sea-painless/

Now, let's get back to cheerier cruise chit-chat!

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks for the information.

[RevNeal]

With a Tray from the Lido these passengers who keep falling overboard could survive ... throw them a line and they can ski behind the ship.

Wait ... oh ... HAL is getting rid of its trays in the Lido.
Never mind. :D

;)

[Bramcruiser]

While I feel sorry for the families I find its almost impossible to accidentally fall off a cruise ship without some stupidity or foul play being involved. If one is simply walking on deck, you cannot slip, fly across the deck, hop over the railing and fall into the water as if its a scene out of some comedy movie.

When I hear stories about people falling off ships what comes to mind are:

1. suicide

2. murder

3. stupid actions by people (whether alcohol related or not). Why some idiot think they can climb on the railing to get a better view or hop from balcony to balcony is beyond me! Sad to think that number 3 may be more prevalent than the other two.

I certainly don't want an all-enclosed ship with no promenade deck to walk along as that is my absolute all-time favourite activity on a ship. I am fearful of the reactions the cruise lines might take to the every growing media reports of passengers lost overboard but what else can they do?

I keep hoping these reports die down but they seem to grow more and more each year. :(

David

[English_in_Spain]

With a Tray from the Lido these passengers who keep falling overboard could survive ... throw them a line and they can ski behind the ship.

Wait ... oh ... HAL is getting rid of its trays in the Lido.
Never mind. :D

;)

Rev Neal, I have always enjoyed reading your posts but I have to say that I think that comment was uncalled for.

Also, for a minister of the church I thought it was particularly unfeeling. IMHO you should be ashamed of yourself.

[suse]

I don't understand what goes through people's minds. You know, I wish I did. My impression is that this life is a test. That's it. Everyone used to laugh at me when I took the toughest sunday school class there was. I did it because it's a good thing to do. It's hard. But! This isn't about me. I am so sorry that people feel like that's it; I'm done. I wish blessings on their families. I laugh about alot of things, and make fun of alot, and think life is funny, and you can't stand it, but this is awful. I will certainly pray for those in need and I do that daily
love, Susie

[brucory]

Rev Neal, I have always enjoyed reading your posts but I have to say that I think that comment was uncalled for.

Also, for a minister of the church I thought it was particularly unfeeling. IMHO you should be ashamed of yourself.

Rev Neal contributes so much to this board and his post was surely not created to offend.

Sometimes it is beneficial to make light of something so tragic, and I think this is what was intended..

Best wishes to the families of those injured/missing...

:o:o:o

[suse]

Hey, to English in Spain!
He was kidding. Get it? Sometimes, people in the ministery are entitled to a life. Yeah. I know some nuns in a sequestered site; in fact they aren't allowed to speak on the grounds, but when they come to see me they do! Well. Sometimes they haven't spoken for so long, it comes out funny. Ok. They are my friends. Never criticize a servant of God. Ok? Got it. Why can't we show some love and tolerance on this board?:confused:

[English_in_Spain]

I think if RN wants to be treated as a lay person giving a lay opinion he should call himself something different and not make a thing about being a minister.

If, on the other hand, he makes it clear what he does then I think he needs to think twice before commenting on such a serious subject in such a lighthearted manner.

I know he contributes to this site, I mentioned that in my post, but I still say his comments were uncalled for.

I do not feel that suicide is a laughing matter and neither would you or RN if your family had been affected by it.

[Down-Unders]

With a Tray from the Lido these passengers who keep falling overboard could survive ... throw them a line and they can ski behind the ship.

Wait ... oh ... HAL is getting rid of its trays in the Lido.
Never mind. :D

;)



Oh dear!

[English_in_Spain]

Hey, to English in Spain!
He was kidding. Get it? Sometimes, people in the ministery are entitled to a life. Yeah. I know some nuns in a sequestered site; in fact they aren't allowed to speak on the grounds, but when they come to see me they do! Well. Sometimes they haven't spoken for so long, it comes out funny. Ok. They are my friends. Never criticize a servant of God. Ok? Got it. Why can't we show some love and tolerance on this board?:confused:

So why is that then?

[Susie51]

OP, thank you for the info. I thought both pax were found. I'm sorry to hear that one of them is lost at sea.

[suse]

Ok, so it isn't funny. Of course, it wasn't meant to be. Rev is a human being you know. Why are you so critical? So, once in a while he wants to be silly like the rest of us. Boy, do I take criticism over that! I LOVE taking life lightly. It is so much fun! Give him a break. Be kind. Hey, don''t do that and the next person over your shoulder isn't a whole lot of fun, know what I mean? Peace. My Vietnam Vet friend says that alot.:)

[Tampa Girl]

I think if RN wants to be treated as a lay person giving a lay opinion he should call himself something different and not make a thing about being a minister.

If, on the other hand, he makes it clear what he does then I think he needs to think twice before commenting on such a serious subject in such a lighthearted manner.

I know he contributes to this site, I mentioned that in my post, but I still say his comments were uncalled for.

I do not feel that suicide is a laughing matter and neither would you or RN if your family had been affected by it.

What information do you have that this was a suicide? The suspicion is that it was another act of stupidity, a reasonable suspicion because most of these incidents are just that. Incidentally, for the poster who listed "murder" as the second cause, I wonder what evidence led to that conclusion. Stupid acts fall under the category of the "Darwin" awards.

[suse]

To English in Spain,
Never criticize a servant of God.

[Bramcruiser]

Incidentally, for the poster who listed "murder" as the second cause, I wonder what evidence led to that conclusion.

No one listed murder as a second cause so far on here. If reference was made to my earlier posting - I did say that my mind tends to think of three things when such reports of people going missing overboard are aired: suicide, murder and stupid acts. I never once indicated any cause as to what was behind any of the two incidents that recently happened and which are the topic of discussion here. I only referred to what were possible causes in my mind due to previous events and without yet reading any confirmations on what occurred.

I find this thread getting a little testy and ask that everyone have some decorum. Actually, I defend Rev. Neal here because a little levity IS sometimes needed in times of stress. Its a genuine response and I find it a lot more refreshing that sympathy for the sake of being sympathetic. It would have been a different story if this thread spiraled downward into jokes only but I don't believe this was the intention of Rev. Neal or anyone else.

I feel sorry for the families of those who meet with unfortunate ends but.....after 4 funerals in my family in 2008, I've learned that we must move on.

As for moving on, I think its best I find other threads right now.

David

[Pam in CA]

I think I have yet to hear of a case where some degree of stupidity or hostility wasn't involved. When I hear of someone going overboard because a railing gave way, or something of that nature, then I'll start to worry about my own safety in this regard! :)

When I hear stories about people falling off ships what comes to mind are:

1. suicide

2. murder

3. stupid actions by people (whether alcohol related or not). Why some idiot think they can climb on the railing to get a better view or hop from balcony to balcony is beyond me! Sad to think that number 3 may be more prevalent than the other two.There are several things MOST of the overboard cases have in common (not including suicide <very few> or murder <very, very rare>) and that is:

a) Alcohol

b) Stupidity

c) A Carnival ship

I'm not implying that these are related but Carnival has over 50% of ALL overboards. Alcohol is involved in most of the cases and sheer stupidity is is also high on the list. Cruise ships are designed for safety, and balancing that with views. They have many studies at what height the railing should be and in actuality, there's absolutely no way you can trip and fall overboard unless you're exceptionally tall.

I feel badly for the families but falling overboard is not an accident waiting to happen which is what the media would have you believe. Several years ago, I was on a cruise, standing on the Promenade deck looking out. A family was standing at the railing nearby, talking with each other. The young father was holding his baby (just learning to stand and bouncing up and down) on the railing with only one arm around him while his head was turned away talking to others. I just about freaked out. IMHO, that was so negligent it would have been murder if that baby had slipped and fallen overboard.

[Bramcruiser]

Pam, I agree 100% with what you just said. You elegantly stated everything I was trying to say. I rarely think about such events when I go off on a cruise and hate when people who don't cruise bring it up. I'm perhaps more worried about the flight getting to the embarkation point.

David

[Boytjie]

I think if RN wants to be treated as a lay person giving a lay opinion he should call himself something different and not make a thing about being a minister.

If, on the other hand, he makes it clear what he does then I think he needs to think twice before commenting on such a serious subject in such a lighthearted manner.

I know he contributes to this site, I mentioned that in my post, but I still say his comments were uncalled for.

I do not feel that suicide is a laughing matter and neither would you or RN if your family had been affected by it.

Oh, lighten up! :rolleyes: Rev Neal did not make fun of any of the cases that have gone overboard. I just wish he did not mention the dreaded T word.

[Down-Unders]

Oh, lighten up! :rolleyes: Rev Neal did not make fun of any of the cases that have gone overboard. I just wish he did not mention the dreaded T word.



It does not matter who made these comments, they are inappropriate and insensitive under the circumstances. Give us a break!

[Two@Sea]

It does not matter who made these comments, they are inappropriate and insensitive under the circumstances. Give us a break!

The comment may have been "inappropriate and insensitive" to you, but please don't presume that everyone should feel the same way. If that were the case, I would have to insist that you consider the post as refreshingly amusing as I did.

RevNeal always seems to have a good grasp on what is important in life... and thereafter.

[Typhoon1]

Another example of the crazy, drunken atmosphere typical of the Carnival ships.

[Copper10-8]

...going overboard (accidental or otherwise).

The following link will forward you to a rather somber article on a competing cruise ship message board.

For those not wishing to deal with cruise ship suicides please skip this link/post. It's just an FYI.

http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/20090528880/suicide-sea-painless/

Now, let's get back to cheerier cruise chit-chat!

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

That's a good article, Bob! Thanks for attaching it here! It pretty much touches upon all the reasons passengers disappear/die on cruise ships, except alcohol (or illegal narcotics)-related 'horse play' and/or plain stupidity. Look, this is not a pleasant topic but, guess what? These things happen on cruise ships, luckily not a lot, but they do happen!

[Down-Unders]

...going overboard (accidental or otherwise).

The following link will forward you to a rather somber article on a competing cruise ship message board.

For those not wishing to deal with cruise ship suicides please skip this link/post. It's just an FYI.

http://www.cruisemates.com/blog/20090528880/suicide-sea-painless/

Now, let's get back to cheerier cruise chit-chat!

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)





Great article thank you for bringing it to our attention.

[lana255]

Another example of the crazy, drunken atmosphere typical of the Carnival ships.

I've never sailed Carnival - is that what it's like??

[Copper10-8]

FYI

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html

[CowPrincess]

FYI

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html

And how do the #s overboard compare to the # of pax? I'd like to see a %, or as a number of the total, e.g., 37 overboard out xxxxx pax carried or similar.

[Cruising-along]

I think I have yet to hear of a case where some degree of stupidity or hostility wasn't involved. When I hear of someone going overboard because a railing gave way, or something of that nature, then I'll start to worry about my own safety in this regard! :)

I couldn't agree more, John. :)

I get pretty tired of the question "aren't you afraid of falling overboard" from people who haven't cruised before. I'm tired of explaining to them how unlikely that would be. :rolleyes: If only the news would highlight that fact instead of sensationalizing these stories.

[Boatdrill]

Rev Neal, I have always enjoyed reading your posts but I have to say that I think that comment was uncalled for.
Also, for a minister of the church I thought it was particularly unfeeling.

English in Spain: I agree with you, and I see you already have taken some heat for your opinion...but the truth is, you are correct.

Poor manners do not discriminate. We are each capable of displaying them.

[English_in_Spain]

I agree with you, and I see you already have taken some heat for your opinion...but the truth is, you are correct.

Poor manners do not discriminate. We are each capable of displaying them.

I should have known better than criticise one of the 'in-crowd'.

I should have known they would close ranks.

[kryos]

I don't understand what goes through people's minds. You know, I wish I did. My impression is that this life is a test. That's it.
I am NOT making light of this situation ... but, have you ever heard of the "Darwin Awards?"

Climbing onto the railing just to get a "better view" of the scenery? That's surely gonna win him one.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[brucory]

When anyone states an opinion, you put yourself out there to get other opinions back. That is what happens on discussion boards

I should have known better

No one is saying you were wrong in what you said or "closing ranks". It has merely been suggested that the message you received was not intended as such, when it was sent.

It seems as though sensitivities are at a boiling point at the moment.

:eek::eek::eek:

[kryos]

Another example of the crazy, drunken atmosphere typical of the Carnival ships.Now I wouldn't be too harsh with Carnival. After all, is no one responsible for their own actions anymore? No one forces people to drink until they become so mind-numbed as to do something stupid like climb up on a railing.

Also, am I mistaken, or aren't the servers on cruise ships supposed to cut someone off if they begin to appear "too" drunk? I seem to recall being told that once on HAL by a bar server who was telling me about a training class he spent his whole morning in ... where he had to participate in exercises that determined when a passenger should be cut off, and then how to do that in such a manner as not to offend.

Of course, a passenger could get stone cold drunk in their cabin too ... and then there would be no server to cut them off.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I should have known better than criticise one of the 'in-crowd'.

I should have known they would close ranks.LOL ... you just discovered that, huh? :)

Don't sweat it. Say what's on your mind and let others just deal with it.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[brucory]

Also, am I mistaken, or aren't the servers on cruise ships supposed to cut someone off if they begin to appear "too" drunk? I seem to recall being told that once on HAL by a bar server who was telling me about a training class he spent his whole morning in ... where he had to participate in exercises that determined when a passenger should be cut off, and then how to do that in such a manner as not to offend.


This training in alcohol service is appropriate, but difficult to enforce in an environment of tip based commision / target based results, where you have the same customers over a period of time...

Such training is to protect companies against litigation where an employee becomes liable for serving alcohol to a customer...

So, if you jump off the ship drunk, rather than the cruiseline being liable, the individual who served the booze becomes vulnerable...

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Copper10-8]

And how do the #s overboard compare to the # of pax? I'd like to see a %, or as a number of the total, e.g., 37 overboard out xxxxx pax carried or similar.

Unknown, not given here, but if you take the capacity of the ships plus the amount of cruise voyages they perform on your avg 7-day/10-day schedule, it's pretty low. When it happens though, the media is all over it

[babyher]

I am NOT making light of this situation ... but, have you ever heard of the "Darwin Awards?"

Climbing onto the railing just to get a "better view" of the scenery? That's surely gonna win him one.

Blue skies ...

--rita


Rita

Not only have I heard of The Darwin Awards (and actually think some of them are funny:)) I actually had to go to the wake and funeral of someone who should have definately gotten a nomination for the award that year.

Of course you are in shock when you hear such a young person has died , of course your next question is "What happened ?"

Then you are told and you feel like a heel for cracking a smile shaking your head in disbelief and saying "***?????" *LOL*

[esther e]

A friend was on the QM a couple of years ago and it had to turn around in the middle of the night. A pax had locked his door and when the room steward went in (finally) he found the balcony door opened and a note left. Very sad. My friend said they looked and searched for over 3 hours, but nothing.

[rbyrd2531]

To English in Spain,
Never criticize a servant of God.



I disagree that a servant of God should automatically be above criticism. Does this include Fred Phelps, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard and Pat Robertson?

From what I have seen, I think Rev. Neal is great and you will find in this life those that can deal with tragic situations and hard times with the most success do so with humor.

[usha]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm???:confused:
I'm trying to figure out if RevNeal is being flamed for making light of
A) suicide at sea
or...
B) lido trays being gone

[babyher]

Hmmmmmmmmmmm???:confused:
I'm trying to figure out if RevNeal is being flamed for making light of
A) suicide at sea
or...
B) lido trays being gone



Now there is a poll I would like to see the results of :) *LOL*

[Gator83]

Rev Neal, I have always enjoyed reading your posts but I have to say that I think that comment was uncalled for.

Also, for a minister of the church I thought it was particularly unfeeling. IMHO you should be ashamed of yourself.


Oh please....he was just trying to lighten up the situation.

[fireofficer5]

:pIts not drunks in general, its the amature's, who only drink on vacation, unlike myself who is a pro and drinks every day.:p

[u4ea]

Making light of death/tragedy is just a way of “dealing” with it, it doesn’t (usually) convey malice or insensitivity.
If anyone finds offence, and feels the need for an apology, you would want to convey those feelings in a tactful and kind manner, but bear in mind that first sentence. ;)

In a quick soapbox comment, remember we live in a world filled with beauty and love, but is also tainted with blood and exploitation, and almost everything we do or purchase in life has a trail of it. One disturbing statistic is that every 10 seconds a child under the age of five dies due to lack of access to clean water. http://www.who.int/ceh/en/
Inequality is ubiquitous. Our job in this world of trouble is to love one another.
Thanks for the rant, and don’t go overboard!:cool:
Mark…

[suse]

Yeah! A rant! Okay, now I'm ready to talk about vegans, smoking or trays again. How about you? I do not miss the barf fest though. That was kind of weirdo.:eek:

[esther e]

Yeah! A rant! Okay, now I'm ready to talk about vegans, smoking or trays again. How about you? I do not miss the barf fest though. That was kind of weirdo.:eek:

Smoking!!! I vote for smoking!!! That seems to get the most heated responses. Let's hear it for smoking/non-smoking pros and cons. You first......

[CowPrincess]

Unknown, not given here, but if you take the capacity of the ships plus the amount of cruise voyages they perform on your avg 7-day/10-day schedule, it's pretty low. When it happens though, the media is all over it


I realize the # of pax overboard is VERY low/miniscule in comparison to the # of pax carried. I was just wondering, though, if it was calculated as a %age of pax carried or pax-nights, whether what appears to be Carnival's significantly higher # would then show as a similar percentage as other lines. I don't trust #s per se. I want to have them in context :D

[Copper10-8]

I realize the # of pax overboard is VERY low/miniscule in comparison to the # of pax carried. I was just wondering, though, if it was calculated as a %age of pax carried or pax-nights, whether what appears to be Carnival's significantly higher # would then show as a similar percentage as other lines. I don't trust #s per se. I want to have them in context :D

Got it! Unfortunately, I can't help you with that:o

[babyher]

Smoking!!! I vote for smoking!!! That seems to get the most heated responses. Let's hear it for smoking/non-smoking pros and cons. You first......



I don't know a good dress code thread brings out all those assumptions of complete strangers socio-economic status and their lack of breeding. So it actually drags several generations into the mix.

You can actually feel some posters choking back the urge to say "Those People"

It's an air of hautiness reminiscent of Mrs. Drysdale on "The Beverly Hillbillies" :)

[kryos]

Then you are told and you feel like a heel for cracking a smile shaking your head in disbelief and saying "***?????" *LOL*I used to be an active skydiver, and yes ... we have many people who have done things to earn Darwin awards. But, I think you have to survive to be nominated for one. If you die, you are disqualified.

We had a guy once at my dropzone ... we knew he would win hands down that year. The guy got a bit bored with doing the "same old" jumps so he decided to shake things up a bit. That's what happens when people progress too quickly in the sport ... everything is too easy for them, so they want to try dumber and dumber stuff.

This guy ... who maybe had all of about 300 jumps under his belt ... decided it would be neat to fly his parachute in one end of the hanger (where everyone packs their parachutes) and out the back end. Thought it would look "really kewl" on the video. In fact, he paid a friend to film him. Ahhhhhh, what a "Kodak moment" that was!

Let's see. Parachute collapsed while he was going at high speed into the hanger. I think it got hung up on something outside the hanger ... causing it to immediately collapse. Guy did something like three somersaults, hit a few other people who were packing, slammed into a bleacher type of thing ...

If I recall ... broken back, broken pelvis, broken femur, broken elbow ... and some head injuries. But he lived, so he was definitely a candidate for a Darwin nomination.

Skydiving is dangerous enough without pulling stupid sh** like that.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[prescottbob]

...has certainly 'contorted' this thread.

From my quick overview of recently submitted replies I see that there might be an assumption that a suicide might be involved.

That was not my intent to inject such an idea. I was just providing an article dealing with various causes of one's demise aboard a cruise ship (which has been shown to be quite low) and that, as John mentioned, did not include substance(s) abuse(s) nor, well, momentary lapses into the world of stupidity.

I believe, perhaps, that the wonderful Carnival ships caters to a more younger, 'daring' crowd (horseplay?), as it were, versus HAL (and others) and thus has a greater "overboard" ratio.

It seems to me to be nothing more, nothing less reagrding the "human condition". And likewise it is certainly no reflection on the good Carnival folks by any means.

Regardless, for any & all of the reasons mentioned, the numbers, statistically speaking, are quite low for the number of folks cruising on an annual basis.

I'm not quite sure as to how such topics as religion, Lido trays, levity and the 'Darwin Awards' became part of this thread but so it is.

BTW, the 'mission statement' of the Darwin Awards (darwinawards.com) is thus:


"Honoring those who improve the species...by
accidentally removing themselves from it! "


Be & remain well.

Bon Voyage & Good Health!
Bob:)

[nana51]

:pIts not drunks in general, its the amateur's, who only drink on vacation, unlike myself who is a pro and drinks every day.:p
My brother said he never went out on New Year's Eve because "all the amateur drunks are on the road".

[jtl513]

http://www.cruisejunkie.com/Overboard.html
Now I wouldn't be too harsh with Carnival.

Note how the general trend for Carnival is upward ... and only Carnival.

[cruisecrasy]

While I feel sorry for the families I find its almost impossible to accidentally fall off a cruise ship without some stupidity or foul play being involved. If one is simply walking on deck, you cannot slip, fly across the deck, hop over the railing and fall into the water as if its a scene out of some comedy movie.

When I hear stories about people falling off ships what comes to mind are:

1. suicide

2. murder

3. stupid actions by people (whether alcohol related or not). Why some idiot think they can climb on the railing to get a better view or hop from balcony to balcony is beyond me! Sad to think that number 3 may be more prevalent than the other two.

I certainly don't want an all-enclosed ship with no promenade deck to walk along as that is my absolute all-time favourite activity on a ship. I am fearful of the reactions the cruise lines might take to the every growing media reports of passengers lost overboard but what else can they do?

I keep hoping these reports die down but they seem to grow more and more each year. :(

David

Seems to me that it is a very, very small # of folks who actually die by falling or jumping overboard so I am curious to understand why a cruiseline wld even worry about taking away open decks & balconies. The sadness is u must even consider protecting a few from themselves and make the huge majority of us do without...

Sad as suicide is, I do not feel anything shld change on cruiseships. Those who wish to die will find a way and 'fools exist all over the place -

Seems to me if the media and the cruiselines wish to 'do' something, how about holding the 'fools' who drink too much or get 'brave' and end up in the 'drink' accountable for the expenses involved in the rescue or attempted rescue?? The fellow who was rescued & has a wound, wld have a much lighter wallet also if I had anything to say about it! A few days at hard labor might get his attention also - shame it isn't a criminal offence..!!

If the cruiseline is involved in search & rescue & they usually are, they pass along the expenses to all pax and the govt gets its funding from taxpayers - make all who fall or jump pay up, otherwise we are all stuck paying for it! :(

Even the suicides families shld have to pay up - might discourage a few if they knew their families wld be on the hook for many thousands of $s...

Sounds harsh perhaps, reality usually does but why shld folks pay for others who choose to do something selfish (IMO suicides are 'selfish' 'cause they are only thinking about themselves) or just plain 'stupid'?

I am all for & do help folks when the problem it isn't of their own making, otherwise they shld pay up & please leave the open decks & balconies alone!!

Have happy cruisin'!

[JerseyJaguar]

Yeah! A rant! Okay, now I'm ready to talk about vegans, smoking or trays again. How about you? I do not miss the barf fest though. That was kind of weirdo.:eek:
I'd rather be the next person in a room that's was previously occupied by a two pack a day smoker than a room that's had every surface puked on. Have to ask about that in the next smoking thread.

[usha]

Note how the general trend for Carnival is upward ... and only Carnival.
Are we concluding that the dumbest, drunkest, most homicidal & suicidal people tend to cruise on Carnival?:eek:

[pms4104]

Hey, to English in Spain!
He was kidding. Get it? Sometimes, people in the ministery are entitled to a life. Yeah. I know some nuns in a sequestered site; in fact they aren't allowed to speak on the grounds, but when they come to see me they do! Well. Sometimes they haven't spoken for so long, it comes out funny. Ok. They are my friends. Never criticize a servant of God. Ok? Got it. Why can't we show some love and tolerance on this board?:confused:
suse ... All of us, at least those of us who are deists, are servants of God. And we endure a mighty amount of criticism day in and day out. Your statement is one of the reasons pedophilia in the Church got buried for many decades.

[jhannah]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're getting WAY off-topic here!

[usha]

Whoa, whoa, whoa. We're getting WAY off-topic here!
Do ya think ?:rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

Rev Neal, I have always enjoyed reading your posts but I have to say that I think that comment was uncalled for.

Also, for a minister of the church I thought it was particularly unfeeling. IMHO you should be ashamed of yourself.

I'm very sorry that you took offense at my attempt to inject a little bit of levity into what could easily become a very painful thread about a very painful topic. Most especially, I'm sorry you took my post seriously; I drafted it as I did, referencing trays, to try and lighten the deepening mood. I'm sorry if it hurt you. If you've lost a loved one overboard in some similar, tragic accident, you have my deepest sympathy and condolences.

[RevNeal]

Rev Neal contributes so much to this board and his post was surely not created to offend.

Sometimes it is beneficial to make light of something so tragic, and I think this is what was intended..

Best wishes to the families of those injured/missing...

:o:o:o

You are correct, both to my intent and to my wishes. Thank you.

[esther e]

I'm very sorry that you took offense at my attempt to inject a little bit of levity into what could easily become a very painful thread about a very painful topic. Most especially, I'm sorry you took my post seriously; I drafted it as I did, referencing trays, to try and lighten the deepening mood. I'm sorry if it hurt you. If you've lost a loved one overboard in some similar, tragic accident, you have my deepest sympathy and condolences.

I know the majority here knew exactly what you meant and it put a smile on our faces. Sadly, there are people who are either very sensitive or can't enjoy levity. I personally thank you for my smile.:)

[RevNeal]

Hey, to English in Spain!
He was kidding. Get it? Sometimes, people in the ministery are entitled to a life. Yeah. I know some nuns in a sequestered site; in fact they aren't allowed to speak on the grounds, but when they come to see me they do! Well. Sometimes they haven't spoken for so long, it comes out funny. Ok. They are my friends. Never criticize a servant of God. Ok? Got it. Why can't we show some love and tolerance on this board?:confused:

Thank you, but please calm down. I've grown so used to criticism, both in real life and around here, that I've learned to expect it even when I'm trying to help. It's ok ... truly it is.

[RevNeal]

I do not feel that suicide is a laughing matter and neither would you or RN if your family had been affected by it.

I had not gathered that these events were suicide; from my reading of the news reports, my understanding was that they were tragic accidents which were induced by alcohol and other drugs impairing good judgement and resulting in people doing stupid things -- like balancing on a balcony railing.

I've had to deal with several suicides during the past 20 year of my ministry. The aftermath is always so very difficult, and the pain doesn't subside quickly (or ever completely). Please know that I am very sorry te any loss which you have suffered through a suicide in your family.

[RevNeal]

OP, thank you for the info. I thought both pax were found. I'm sorry to hear that one of them is lost at sea.

I also thought that both passengers had been found.

[RevNeal]

Oh, lighten up! :rolleyes: Rev Neal did not make fun of any of the cases that have gone overboard. I just wish he did not mention the dreaded T word.

Thanks, Peter. The dreaded "T" word was precisely what I was trying to mention, given the thread-ectomy that had just transpired!!! ;)

[RevNeal]

I disagree that a servant of God should automatically be above criticism. Does this include Fred Phelps, Jimmy Swaggart, Ted Haggard and Pat Robertson?

From what I have seen, I think Rev. Neal is great and you will find in this life those that can deal with tragic situations and hard times with the most success do so with humor.

Thank you. I agree with you that clergy are not above criticism. I also want to thank you for putting your finger on the key, for me, in dealing with the deepest and most painful tragedies. It reminds me of something that one of my favorite authors, Robert A. Heinlein, wrote about laughter: so much of it is rooted in the pains and tragedies of life because it is through such a sense of humor that most of us can make it through.

There are times for a somber, serious tone and countenance. There are times to cry. And, there are also times to laugh one's rear off in order to keep from crying or to stop the tears. The trick is knowing when is the time for each. The difficulties of these boards is that not everybody is in the same place, or deals with tragedies in the same way.

I've done a huge number of funerals in my life and ministry, and there are been some at which the mishaps in the service (due to mechanical malfunctions, funeral home errors, etc) have caused me to draw blood from my inner-cheek to keep from laughing out loud. Get a bunch of undertakers together and you'll hear so many funeral jokes (that you've NEVER heard before) that you'll wish you had some method to record them for later re-play. They have learned how to deal with the pain. So have most clergy -- and, quite frankly,mostly by doing the same thing. That, or we crust over and become so unfeeling that tragedy in our own lives doesn't even phase us. I can't imagine myself crusting over and becoming numb to pain. So ... I laugh.

[bcd2010]

RevNeal, thank you for finally responding. You are in a unique and, imo, enviable position to be able to teach compassion and responsibility. People handle things differently and we can rise up against (i.e., flame) those who disagree with us or we can learn from them. Thomas Aquinas wrote: "We must love them both -- those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."

[DFD1]

The preacher business must be a tough row to hoe. Hang in there, Rev.

[suse]

Well said. The Rev seems like a really good guy. Now, I can't wait to talk about other subjects that are goofy and fun. See ya.:)

[RevNeal]

RevNeal, thank you for finally responding. You are in a unique and, imo, enviable position to be able to teach compassion and responsibility. People handle things differently and we can rise up against (i.e., flame) those who disagree with us or we can learn from them. Thomas Aquinas wrote: "We must love them both -- those whose opinions we share and those whose opinions we reject. For both have labored in the search for truth, and both have helped us in the finding of it."

Quite frankly, before this morning I had forgotten I had even posted on the thread. It was a busy weekend, and I had posted elsewhere and had forgotten about this one. An angel sent me an e-mail "heads up" and so I came by and took a look.

Thank you for your kind words. I try, and I sadly often fail, but I do try. One of the things I find myself praying is that, in my mistakes, some might learn that clergy are human, too, with all of the faults that make up the human condition. I know that surprises some people, and offends others, but it's simply the truth.

Over the years I've enjoyed cruises with people who tell me that they had never before had an opportunity to get to know a minister, and had long been afraid of or intimidated by the clergy, but having spent a week or two over dinners and on shore excursions, etc., with me, they no longer felt that way. It's in moments like those that I feel the most honored. I'm a people-person; I enjoy making contact with folk, interacting with them, and enjoying the differences in people. It's when I fail in making those contacts, or when relations go horribly wrong, that I regret that I'm "only human."

Oh, and I love that St. Thomas Aquinas quote ... it is so very true and very well said. Thanks for reminding me of it.

[RevNeal]

The preacher business must be a tough row to hoe. Hang in there, Rev.

:) Well, there are times when it's difficult, true, but it's also some of the most rewarding work I've ever done. I've worked in several fields in my life, including in the Publishing Industry, in Libraries, and I've taught in High Schools, in Undergraduate and in Graduate colleges; and, yet, without question I enjoy and am most fulfilled by the practice of ministry. I don't want to do anything else.

[suse]

Oh, I think clergy can be great fun! We had a minister, for years, who was a hoot and we couldn't stop laughing at times. He was off the wall and completely irreverant. He had quite a following, as I am quite sure you do too!
When our pastor was called to another church, there wasn't a dry eye in the place. He was one crazy, and well loved, guy. He was the kind of guy who would be watching the smurfs cartoons on Saturday morning when I'd drop by with something for the bulletin. One funny fellow.

[woodofpine]

People going overboard is always destressing food for thought, but...

The reasons always some down to 3 reasons with the first 2 potentially being ALL incidents...

1) crazy alcohol over indulgence;
2) suicide (of course booze is also a depressant);
3) the 'unexplained' - possible foul play or the even more unexplanable 'accident'.

Let's face it, modern cruise ship design has pretty much engineered 'accident' out of the equation. Number 1 is the overwhelming numberical leader with number 2 filling in what's left of the statistical pie - far behind...

[Down-Unders]

I'm very sorry that you took offense at my attempt to inject a little bit of levity into what could easily become a very painful thread about a very painful topic. Most especially, I'm sorry you took my post seriously; I drafted it as I did, referencing trays, to try and lighten the deepening mood. I'm sorry if it hurt you. If you've lost a loved one overboard in some similar, tragic accident, you have my deepest sympathy and condolences.




RevNeal thank you for your sincere response.

[rbyrd2531]

Thank you. I agree with you that clergy are not above criticism. I also want to thank you for putting your finger on the key, for me, in dealing with the deepest and most painful tragedies. It reminds me of something that one of my favorite authors, Robert A. Heinlein, wrote about laughter: so much of it is rooted in the pains and tragedies of life because it is through such a sense of humor that most of us can make it through.

Reverend,,you already had your finger on the key. I am always told by friends that my dry wit is one of my best features..but I inherited it from my mother. She was able to turn the most serious subject into something funny..and usually it seemed almost by accident. (But it was not):>))

We lost her to a sudden stroke a few years ago at the age of 58.....she was joking with my father and alll of a sudden she could no longer speak. She was smiling when the stroke happened.

At her funeral, I was so glad it was filled with people who gave examples of her humor and the biggest tragedy would have been if there had been no laughter that day to see us through it. I know she was watching and laughing as well. I imagine the laughter in Heaven is as loud as the music.

[shandryl]

I couldn't agree more, John. :)

I get pretty tired of the question "aren't you afraid of falling overboard" from people who haven't cruised before. I'm tired of explaining to them how unlikely that would be. :rolleyes: If only the news would highlight that fact instead of sensationalizing these stories.

I feel your pain!! I know exactly what you mean!!