Mariners Club Benefits vs. new Celebrity Benefits?

[cp556]

I see today that Celebrity Cruises is rolling out a new tier of benefits for their Captains Club (past passengers). It introduces improved benefits based on your level of membership, and includes enhancements for internet usage, laundry benefits, member lounge hours, etc. The program will be introduced now while additional changes will take place over the next year.

Although I'm a loyal HAL Mariner, I wonder if/when HAL will change the Mariners Club benefits? A lot of folks on this board compare Celebrity favorably with HAL and it'll be interesting to see if the Mariner benefits improve in the near future.

[Mary Ellen]

There have been rumors for a few years now. Nothing yet.

[Regal Eagle]

I agree with you CP. HAL needs to improve the Mariner program to make it competitive. Even sister companies such as Cunard and Princess offer richer benefits for a couple of years.

[pms4104]

Nothing is free in life or in cruising ... if HAL adds amenities to the Mariner program, passengers pay thru higher cruisefares.

Further, some of the goodies offered on other lines already are offered as included perks in some levels of cabin categories on HAL. Any changes HAL may introduce will need to be unique and not redundant of suites amenities.

[deck hands]

I also think its about time for HAL to up update their Mariner Program. Just going to a cocktail party is not much of a benefit. Mariner lunch is the same if you have one cruise or a thousand. HAL does not provide very much in the way of recognizing the loyalty of long time Mariners. It seems all cruise lines have far better loyalty programs including those within the Carnival umbrella. I hope HAL recognizes their lack of appreciation and implements a new loyality program or like you suggest "the grass may look greener". In this economy I wonder if the other cruise lines would accept your Hal days and give you their benefits just to get your business?

[YXU AC*SE]

Maybe it's the cynical marketer in me, but if you have the highest repeat cruiser ratio in the industry (as is oft-mentioned here) why do you need to go to the expense of slathering on the incremental expense of an augmented loyalty management program(me). Whilst past performance is not a predictor of the future, for the near term it would seem that HAL is doing fine in attract repeat cruisers without it? Why would you want to give away EBITDA? It just results in higher prices for everyone?

Scott.

[RevNeal]

For about 2 years we've been hearing that HAL is going to upgrade their Mariner Benefits. The rumors have even been "officially sanctioned" by officers aboard ship at Mariner Receptions, etc. However, as of today we've heard nothing. And, quite frankly, I don't anticipate any particularly attractive new benefits being added to Mariner Status passengers ... and here's why:

HAL has already demonstrated that they are not interested in keeping those of us who have been with them for many years by totally disregarding our input, our opinions and interests, when it comes to many features of the cruising experience: from the degrading of onboard ambiance and the plummeting of quality in on-board service to what they're doing to their ships -- butchering the gorgeous old ones with so-called "upgrades" that ruin them -- and the kind of new ships they're putting into service (over-sized, over-crowded, under-staffed, plastic-and-Ikea-cheap). No, they don't care about us nor do they really want us any longer; we are part of the Line's past, not what the Administrative "higher-ups" view to be the line's "future." What they want in HAL's future are the new, never-before traveled, one-time cruisers ... people who will take that "once in a life-time" 7-day mass market cruise, buy all the photos and junk being sold in the onboard shops, then go home and tell friends who will do the same. This is how they'll replace us. HAL is willing to jettison about a half-million people who cruise 2 and 3 times a year on the longer cruises (10-60 days) in order to pick a couple-million different people every year who will cruise once, won't be comparing the present cruise with prior cruises on the Line, and who won't notice as traditions are flushed in favor of passing fads and cheep, flashy, fluff.

I have 2 cruises booked with HAL, and deposit-credit for 2 more cruises that I'm going to spend at some point in 2010 or 2011. After this, I don't know what I'm going to do. If these cruises are good ones -- as good or better than my Alaska sailings this past May -- I may book yet another HAL cruise. Who knows? However, I will also admit that Cunard, Princess, Oceania, Celebrity, Azamara, Seabourn, Crystal, and Regent are now on my Radar for future cruising possibilities. HAL has proven that they have no loyalty to me, as a 200+ Day Mariner, so why should I be loyal to them? And ... no ... little trinkets and worthless new benefits won't change things. Providing high quality service and being responsive to my wishes regarding the kind of cruise experiences I want to buy is what will change my attitude and keep me cruising HAL.

[sail7seas]

Nothing is free in life or in cruising ... if HAL adds amenities to the Mariner program, passengers pay thru higher cruisefares.

Further, some of the goodies offered on other lines already are offered as included perks in some levels of cabin categories on HAL. Any changes HAL may introduce will need to be unique and not redundant of suites amenities.


Yes, yes and yes. I agree with all you say.





Maybe it's the cynical marketer in me, but if you have the highest repeat cruiser ratio in the industry (as is oft-mentioned here) why do you need to go to the expense of slathering on the incremental expense of an augmented loyalty management program(me). Whilst past performance is not a predictor of the future, for the near term it would seem that HAL is doing fine in attract repeat cruisers without it? Why would you want to give away EBITDA? It just results in higher prices for everyone?

Scott.


I think there will be changes to Mariners Program in the near future but I don't think they will be huge. They really don't need to make changes in order to keep those of us who are/have been loyal Mariners. We keep coming back and they know it.

They DO need to make changes, however, to attract the new cruisers. They have no loyalty to any line and will go where they get the best prices and the best amenities. If everyone else offers 'goodies' to their repeaters, HAL will have to at some point in order to get the new cruisers.

We all know there is nothing free on any ship but apparently these new bargain seekers are willing to have these extras included in the price of their cruises and will chose which company with which to book by who gives the most extras. Gives, of course, is inaccurate! Who is including the most in the price of the cruise is more like it.

[lorekauf]

For about 2 years we've been hearing that HAL is going to upgrade their Mariner Benefits. The rumors have even been "officially sanctioned" by officers aboard ship at Mariner Receptions, etc. However, as of today we've heard nothing. And, quite frankly, I don't anticipate any particularly attractive new benefits being added to Mariner Status passengers ... and here's why:

HAL has already demonstrated that they are not interested in keeping those of us who have been with them for many years by totally disregarding our input, our opinions and interests, when it comes to many features of the cruising experience: from the degrading of onboard ambiance and the plummeting of quality in on-board service to what they're doing to their ships -- butchering the gorgeous old ones with so-called "upgrades" that ruin them -- and the kind of new ships they're putting into service (over-sized, over-crowded, under-staffed, plastic-and-Ikea-cheap). No, they don't care about us nor do they really want us any longer; we are part of the Line's past, not what the Administrative "higher-ups" view to be the line's "future." What they want in HAL's future are the new, never-before traveled, one-time cruisers ... people who will take that "once in a life-time" 7-day mass market cruise, buy all the photos and junk being sold in the onboard shops, then go home and tell friends who will do the same. This is how they'll replace us. HAL is willing to jettison about a half-million people who cruise 2 and 3 times a year on the longer cruises (10-60 days) in order to pick a couple-million different people every year who will cruise once, won't be comparing the present cruise with prior cruises on the Line, and who won't notice as traditions are flushed in favor of passing fads and cheep, flashy, fluff.

I have 2 cruises booked with HAL, and deposit-credit for 2 more cruises that I'm going to spend at some point in 2010 or 2011. After this, I don't know what I'm going to do. If these cruises are good ones -- as good or better than my Alaska sailings this past May -- I may book yet another HAL cruise. Who knows? However, I will also admit that Cunard, Princess, Oceania, Celebrity, Azamara, Seabourn, Crystal, and Regent are now on my Radar for future cruising possibilities. HAL has proven that they have no loyalty to me, as a 200+ Day Mariner, so why should I be loyal to them? And ... no ... little trinkets and worthless new benefits won't change things. Providing high quality service and being responsive to my wishes regarding the kind of cruise experiences I want to buy is what will change my attitude and keep me cruising HAL.
I agree with you 100%. There was a time when HAL was the only line I would sail with. I have become more and more disillusioned in the last few years. Price is king with me now or I'd be gone. I really like Princess and I would say the have my preference now.

[suse]

Yeah, and the tote bag is sort of nifty, don't you think, but I have enough of those. I don't like little cluttery things either, so trinkets are not very attractive. Price is king. Yep, I like that expression.:) To a point. Sometimes. It depends.;)

[Aunty Pat]

I agree with you Reverend Neal. HAL is going to have to add a lot to their Mariners Club benefits to sway my cruise choices.

As a travel agent I’ve enjoyed Platinum Level World Club benefits on Cunard & Captains’ Club Elite Level benefits on Princess. These benefits are a lot more valuable than HAL’s Mariner’s benefits. But these benefits alone are not enough to sway my choice to either line once I compare itinerates & cost with HAL.

I have my first Oceania cruise scheduled for next year. If Oceania lives up to all of reviews I’ve read it may change my future cruise choices away from HAL.

Aunty Pat


Barefoot Windjammer - Phantom ‘81
K&D German Rhine Line ‘84
NCL - Norway ’85, Pride of America ’05, Southward ’87, Star ’97 & ‘05, Starward ’92, Sun ’02 & Windward ’93
RCC - Song of America ‘89
American Hawaiian - Independence ‘98
HAL - Volendam ’99, Noordam ’06, Oosterdam ’07 & ‘09, Statendam ’02 & ‘08, Prinsendam ’03 & ’06, & Zuiderdam ’04, ’06 & ‘07
Carnival - Spirit ‘05
Celebrity – Summit ‘05
Cruise West - Yorktown Clipper ‘06
Princess - Golden Princess ‘07
A & K - East Queen ‘07
Cunard - QM2 ’08
Pending Cruises:
HAL – Westerdam, September 6, 2009
Oceania – Insignia, June 17, 2010

[usha]

While I am tickled pink about Celebrity's new Captain's Club perks (especially the ones for Elite members:)),
I certainly haven't taken 21 Celebrity cruises because of their loyalty program!
Celebrity remains my favorite cruise line because I feel it's the best all-around value for what I'm looking for in a cruise.
That said, HAL is also an excellent value in cruising, with or without an enhanced loyalty program IMO, and they know they'll keep passengers coming back just because they've loved their HAL cruises.
Better loyalty perks are just icing on the cake; if the cake isn't already good, who cares about the icing?
JMO...:o

[longtimecruiser]

I so agree with Greg. Hal isn't interested in their long time cruisers. I have 650 days with Hal and get NOTHING any better than someone with only 100 days. No matter how good a line Hal is or thinks it is, they should not take ANY passengers for granted. They may have a high passenger repeat than other cruiselines, but if they keep treating long time loyal passengers the way they do, the customers will go to another cruiseline. There are many to choose from. I am only gold status on Cunard and I get way more perks than I do on Hal.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Well said/written Rev Neal. We came over to HAL from Princess based on what they had been. Now, not so sure but will give HAL a few more chances.

Barbara

[Regal Eagle]

Well said, Rev. Neal. Now I know why you are bombastic! ;-)

[kelmac]

While I am tickled pink about Celebrity's new Captain's Club perks (especially the ones for Elite members:)),
I certainly haven't taken 21 Celebrity cruises because of their loyalty program!
Celebrity remains my favorite cruise line because I feel it's the best all-around value for what I'm looking for in a cruise.
That said, HAL is also an excellent value in cruising, with or without an enhanced loyalty program IMO, and they know they'll keep passengers coming back just because they've loved their HAL cruises.
Better loyalty perks are just icing on the cake; if the cake isn't already good, who cares about the icing?
JMO...:o

What usha said!:)

Kel

[sail7seas]

There must be something wrong with DH and me but we sail HAL because we love the ships, the crew, the people. I don't care about some free internet minutes or a drink nearly as much as I care about the cruise product.

Who cares if I can spend an hour (or hours) for free on line during my cruise if I don't love the cruise itself? Out of all cruises we went to other cruise lines, not a one had a crew that compares - IMO - with HAL's. Just my opinion, but freebies won't pull us from HAL. I suppose everyone's priorities and requirements differ but we enjoy all of our cruises and eagerly wait for the next.

Give me a great crew, a fabulous ship, give me HAL and keep the 'gimmes'.

JMHO.....

[LAFFNVEGAS]

OK I have to admit that the Mariner Program is definitely not what keeps us returning to HAL. Frankly I was not overly impress with the new Captain's Club Benefits. If I booked only suites and had 21 cruises with HAL and Celebrity, everything the Captain's Club is giving you with the exception of Internet minutes you already get with HAL in a Suite for a drastically cheaper price for your cabin in many cases. I am now a Cruise TA and learning a lot. Today I watched the presentation on line about the new Captain's Club as well as had a Live On Line Chat Presentation on the new Equinox. I have to admit she and the Solstice are very impressive and appear to make the poor Eurodam inferior in many ways but of course I have not sailed on the Solstice but I want to and have been searching for two days at pricing for a 7 day Solstice next year. All I do is cringe when I look at all the prices compared to HAL Vista and Signature Class ships. I stongly feel that HAL gives the average cruiser a lot of bang for the buck. I am sure next year I will manage to cruise on the Solstice but probably only in an Ocean View which really is not a fair comparison to HAL since I have never had a category lower than a vernadah on HAL. Turst me these new things Celebrity is giving is being paid by the cruise passenger. Personally I would rather pay a much lower price and pay for the things I want rather than pay thru the nose for the cabin and get junk I do not need.

[RevNeal]

There must be something wrong with DH and me but we sail HAL because we love the ships, the crew, the people. I don't care about some free internet minutes or a drink nearly as much as I care about the cruise product.

Who cares if I can spend an hour (or hours) for free on line during my cruise if I don't love the cruise itself? Out of all cruises we went to other cruise lines, not a one had a crew that compares - IMO - with HAL's. Just my opinion, but freebies won't pull us from HAL. I suppose everyone's priorities and requirements differ but we enjoy all of our cruises and eagerly wait for the next.

Give me a great crew, a fabulous ship, give me HAL and keep the 'gimmes'.

JMHO.....

I agree with you entirely, Judy. And THAT is the problem, for HAL's product has been slipping for quite some time. The dear crew -- whom we all love -- are overworked and being spread far too thin to be able to do their jobs with the degree of excellence which we have all come to love and expect; additionally, they've been given further duties (like the horrid "Master Chef Dinner Show") for which they are neither trained nor have the time to do AND serve people adequately. To make things worse, the lovely damships are being raped by these supposed "upgrades," causing them to be over crowded and look like the perverted result of a demented shipwrite (witness the poor Veendam, and the coming rape of the Rotterdam and the Prinsendam!). And, sadly, the new ships of the Line (Eurodam and the coming Nieuw Amsterdam) are too big, with too many passengers packed into too tiny of public spaces and without enough staff to make for a viable HALesque Staff-to-passenger ratio or levels of service.

THAT is what I care about. The idiotic "perks" won't matter a hill of beans if the ships aren't Yar and the staff is spread so thin that the service sucks and the fleet isn't spotless.

[MightyQuinn]

Mariner perks are interesting but they don’t factor into our cruise decision. What matters to us is the quality of our on-board experience.

We’ve sailed HAL exclusively since ’92 & have enjoyed it very much. But the quality of our on-board experience has diminished recently. Never mind the reasons or the rationale, it’s real for us. So over the last year, we began to seriously look at other cruise lines. This was a first for us. We were seeking what HAL used to offer & we think we’ve found it in Oceania. Based on everything we’ve read, they seem to be better than HAL at delivering a premium cruise experience. So we recently booked our first Oceania cruise for later this year. We look forward to comparing them first-hand with HAL.

At no time did mariner perks of HAL or Oceania influence into our decision.

We’ll certainly continue to sail HAL. Not only do we have future cruise deposits, but HAL offers some itineraries that we really want to do. I just wish that HAL would realize that delivery of an enhanced on-board experience would keep us coming back again & again.

[kelmac]

OK I have to admit that the Mariner Program is definitely not what keeps us returning to HAL. Frankly I was not overly impress with the new Captain's Club Benefits. If I booked only suites and had 21 cruises with HAL and Celebrity, everything the Captain's Club is giving you with the exception of Internet minutes you already get with HAL in a Suite for a drastically cheaper price for your cabin in many cases. I am now a Cruise TA and learning a lot. Today I watched the presentation on line about the new Captain's Club as well as had a Live On Line Chat Presentation on the new Equinox. I have to admit she and the Solstice are very impressive and appear to make the poor Eurodam inferior in many ways but of course I have not sailed on the Solstice but I want to and have been searching for two days at pricing for a 7 day Solstice next year. All I do is cringe when I look at all the prices compared to HAL Vista and Signature Class ships. I stongly feel that HAL gives the average cruiser a lot of bang for the buck. I am sure next year I will manage to cruise on the Solstice but probably only in an Ocean View which really is not a fair comparison to HAL since I have never had a category lower than a vernadah on HAL. Turst me these new things Celebrity is giving is being paid by the cruise passenger. Personally I would rather pay a much lower price and pay for the things I want rather than pay thru the nose for the cabin and get junk I do not need.

Hi Lisa,

Celebrity prices on the Solstice class ships seems high, but it's because the ships are new and the demand is pretty good considering the economy. Having said that, many times the price will drop as the cruise nears and one of the great things about Celebrity -- they WILL honor price drops, even after final payment. Our March cruise on the Solstice started out at $1,086 per person and after three price drops, one which occured two weeks before the cruise, we ended up paying $678 per person. (CAT 9 inside).
I'm thinking about booking the Nieuw Amsterdam for a 7 day cruise next summer and doing a BtoB with the Equinox, which is 10 nights. Even though I have some real issues with HAL as of late, we love the creative itineraries Holland America offers and their cuisine is almost as good as Celebrity.
In the large ship catagory, you can't beat Celebrity!:rolleyes::)

Good luck!
Kel

[frbob]

For about 2 years we've been hearing that HAL is going to upgrade their Mariner Benefits. The rumors have even been "officially sanctioned" by officers aboard ship at Mariner Receptions, etc. However, as of today we've heard nothing. And, quite frankly, I don't anticipate any particularly attractive new benefits being added to Mariner Status passengers ... and here's why:

HAL has already demonstrated that they are not interested in keeping those of us who have been with them for many years by totally disregarding our input, our opinions and interests, when it comes to many features of the cruising experience: from the degrading of onboard ambiance and the plummeting of quality in on-board service to what they're doing to their ships -- butchering the gorgeous old ones with so-called "upgrades" that ruin them -- and the kind of new ships they're putting into service (over-sized, over-crowded, under-staffed, plastic-and-Ikea-cheap). No, they don't care about us nor do they really want us any longer; we are part of the Line's past, not what the Administrative "higher-ups" view to be the line's "future." What they want in HAL's future are the new, never-before traveled, one-time cruisers ... people who will take that "once in a life-time" 7-day mass market cruise, buy all the photos and junk being sold in the onboard shops, then go home and tell friends who will do the same. This is how they'll replace us. HAL is willing to jettison about a half-million people who cruise 2 and 3 times a year on the longer cruises (10-60 days) in order to pick a couple-million different people every year who will cruise once, won't be comparing the present cruise with prior cruises on the Line, and who won't notice as traditions are flushed in favor of passing fads and cheep, flashy, fluff.

I have 2 cruises booked with HAL, and deposit-credit for 2 more cruises that I'm going to spend at some point in 2010 or 2011. After this, I don't know what I'm going to do. If these cruises are good ones -- as good or better than my Alaska sailings this past May -- I may book yet another HAL cruise. Who knows? However, I will also admit that Cunard, Princess, Oceania, Celebrity, Azamara, Seabourn, Crystal, and Regent are now on my Radar for future cruising possibilities. HAL has proven that they have no loyalty to me, as a 200+ Day Mariner, so why should I be loyal to them? And ... no ... little trinkets and worthless new benefits won't change things. Providing high quality service and being responsive to my wishes regarding the kind of cruise experiences I want to buy is what will change my attitude and keep me cruising HAL.

I'm in total agreement with RevNeal's frustration and disappointment in the latest version of Holland America Line. We recently returned from a 27 day cruise on Rotterdam (after Prinsendam our formerly favorite HAL ship). The poor service and generally bad service attitude was so obvious it was the main topic of discussion at most meal times. Whoever is in charge of product and service cutbacks at HAL probably got a bonus for this current mess. Me? I would have fired him/her!

For us, Hal is on a course to nowhere. We have one remaining booking (albeit, a long one). After that, we'll be looking elsewhere to spend our cruise dollars. We just returned from a 2 week cruise on Cunard's Queen Victoria. The comparisons in quality of product and service provided by Cunard make HAL look really bad. Very stark differences!

Someone at HAL needs a wake-up call. I hope it comes sooner rather than later.

Thanks to RevNeal for saying what most of us frequent HAL cruisers are thinking and have observed directly.

[suse]

FrBob, can you be more specific? I have a hard time imagining that a cruise could be that bad. But, if you say so, then it must have been. What went wrong? :confused:

[longtimecruiser]

Mariner perks DO NOT sway my decision on whether or not I sail GHal. Greg is right!!!!! Their service and ships aren't the quality they once were. I was a true Hal fan from way back. I am the third generation in my family to sail Hal. They are NOT the elegant and premium cruiseline that they once were. They are a mass market cruiseline more and more. That is what they want to be. The crew is NOT as well trained, lack of crew, overworked crew. That is Hal today. Pack in the passengers. Quanity, not quality is their motto today. They have RUINED all their old ships so that they can pack in more and more passengers but with the same amount of crew. Hal may be cheaper than other cruiselines but "you get what you pay for". Frankly, I would rather pay more and have my cabin steward well trained and get better service. Hal does need to wake up. I too, hope it is sooner and not later.

[Sage]

I must say that I have to agree with both Adele and Greg. Their product is not the same, and it is sadly morphing into something that is not my idea of a quality cruise line.

[Mary Ellen]

Thanks to RevNeal for saying what most of us frequent HAL cruisers are thinking and have observed directly.Yes, Greg did an outstanding job of putting into words what we have been feeling. Kudos, Greg.

On another thread someone asked a friend of mine 'what is keeping you with HAL?'. That got me thinking. In an e-mail to that friend, I told him that right now it is the itineraries that is keeping us with HAL. Pure and simple - the itineraries.

[CRUZBUDS]

Well .. this is depressing. I hope things do improve before our Zaandam cruise in October. Our last HAL cruise was 7 or 8 years ago and we had terrific service.

We're going on HAL directly because of the reduction in benefits RCCL made. We were booked on the Mariner of the Seas for a B2B from L.A.. We always wanted to try a big ship. When they cut the Diamond benifits we took another look.

The Mariner leaves from L.A. and we live in San Diego, Zaandam leaves from S.D. - Strike One

The Marnier leaves on Sunday..we work and that sucks. The Zaandam leaves on Friday.... perfect! We'll work Friday morning and be on day three of our cruise before we spend our first vacation day. Strike Two

The Mariner goes to Mexico, the Zaandam to Hawaii. We love Mexico, but Hawaii is our favorite cruise destination. Strike Three

Big cut-backs for Diamond members --- Strike Four. Hello HAL!

We were following all of the heated debate about the cuts on the Royal boards and were surpised when we found out that HAL has almost no program at all. If you have no benefits, at least you dodn't have to worry about having them taken away!

[sail7seas]

Has anyone noticed we're in a recession? That loads of folks are out of work? That there are fewer people traveling and ALL leisure travel business are doing what they have to do in order to survive.

I am willing to accept some cut back in order for HAL to survive these bad economic times and still exist when things get better.

Yes.... I know someone will say, "Once you lose it, you never get it back". So far, For US, we have not lost the wonderful service and the friendly crews and anyone who says HAL ships are no longer spotless has not read the most recent USPH scores recently published. Just about all the HAL s scored 95 and above with three scoring a perfect 100. Dirty ships do not get scores like that.

Some of the prices people are paying are ridiculous. What in the world do you expect? To go for such cheap rates and to have no changes? It can't happen.

I know some will say, "I'd rather pay more and get more" and for some they truly mean it. Unfortunately not enough. Most people are booking by price, plan and simple. They go where they get the best bargain with no loyalty to anyone.

[frbob]

FrBob, can you be more specific? I have a hard time imagining that a cruise could be that bad. But, if you say so, then it must have been. What went wrong? :confused:

suse (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/member.php?u=382249), thanks for asking. Specifically, the reduction of staff is painfully evident. Service in the dining room was slow and sometimes careless. Very often menu descriptions didn't match what was delivered to the table. Cabin stewards are spread very thin. It appears they have more cabins to take care of. Tender operators didn't appear to be well trained. In St. Pierre, one got lost in fog and and couldn't find the dock or the ship for over an hour (poor operator or lack of equipment on the tender?). A more experienced boat handler had to get on board to deliver guest safely to the port.The once happy crew seemed indifferent for the most part, with some exceptions of course. I wonder if there is a problem between crews and management operating in the background. I don't know. What I DO know is there is a difference in HAL that is not good, from our perspective. Hope this helps.

[English_in_Spain]

I agree with you entirely, Judy. And THAT is the problem, for HAL's product has been slipping for quite some time. The dear crew -- whom we all love -- are overworked and being spread far too thin to be able to do their jobs with the degree of excellence which we have all come to love and expect; additionally, they've been given further duties (like the horrid "Master Chef Dinner Show") for which they are neither trained nor have the time to do AND serve people adequately. To make things worse, the lovely damships are being raped by these supposed "upgrades," causing them to be over crowded and look like the perverted result of a demented shipwrite (witness the poor Veendam, and the coming rape of the Rotterdam and the Prinsendam!). And, sadly, the new ships of the Line (Eurodam and the coming Nieuw Amsterdam) are too big, with too many passengers packed into too tiny of public spaces and without enough staff to make for a viable HALesque Staff-to-passenger ratio or levels of service.

THAT is what I care about. The idiotic "perks" won't matter a hill of beans if the ships aren't Yar and the staff is spread so thin that the service sucks and the fleet isn't spotless.

Well put. I agree with all that you have said.

[CowPrincess]

S7S, I agree -- a business's primary mission during difficult economic times is to survive. While it would be nice if we could all pay more for our vacations, it is not reasonable. So for every HAL cruiser who says "I'll pay more to get back the service" there are probably dozens who can't pay more, who need to watch their budget, for whom price is the deciding factor, who will stop choosing HAL. So I wonder how thrilled the "will pay more" people would be if:

** the cruise that (today) costs $1000/person cost $5000 to cover the costs of the unsold cabins, or

** the cruise they were booked on was cancelled because HAL couldn't afford to sail with 1 of every 2 cabins empty

HAL doesn't strike me as an organization that is able to react quickly to change. The price-cutting and quality reductions are likely as far as they've gotten in their plan to survive. And this may be where the organization stays (without revisiting and revising their survival strategy) until the leisure travel market improves.

[usha]

Has anyone noticed we're in a recession? That loads of folks are out of work? That there are fewer people traveling and ALL leisure travel business are doing what they have to do in order to survive.

I am willing to accept some cut back in order for HAL to survive these bad economic times and still exist when things get better.

Some of the prices people are paying are ridiculous. What in the world do you expect? To go for such cheap rates and to have no changes? It can't happen.
I'm thinking the same thing.
I can't believe some of the cheap cruise fares I've seen in the last few years, and some cutbacks are inevitable, given those prices.
The "good old days" of cruising were a whole lot more expensive.
Even with the cutbacks, I still think HAL & Celebrity continue to deliver a lot of bang for our vacation buck.:)

[Sage]

Sail, I think that it may be hard to judge the cutbacks and quality of service when you have no other cruise lines to compare HAL with. It is also difficult to say that there are no cut backs, when you like I, only stay in the top category. Of course things are going to be wonderful in an SA or PS. If you cruise on Crystal for instance, you will find the same level of service through out the ship as you receive in the Neptune Lounge. This same statement can not be said of HAL. We enjoy HAL, and we have 20 days booked for next year, but the decline in service and quality is a great concern to me.

[sail7seas]

So 'right on subject'.

I just had an e-mail from a good friend of ours who is General Manager of a large resort. He has lots of empty rooms.

All leisure travel companies are going to do whatever they have to do to fill the rooms. If it means dropping the prices in order to get heads onto those pillows every night, that is what the ships and hotels have to do these days.

I don't need a Masters in Economics to know if you lower the prices, you have to lower what you can offer. They HAVE to lower the prices on some cabins/rooms in order to sell them. Any cabin that is empty when the ship sails, loses that money forever. It can never be made up. (The really tricky part is that, particularly on the "S" ships, the Suites sell out. Those guests still expect to get their money's worth. They are not getting deeply reduced rates for the most part.)

It's a fine line they have to walk. How 'low can they go' until people stop booking because they no longer like what the cruise line/hotel is selling.

[suse]

We've sailed on NCL, Carnival, Royal Caribbean and Holland America. I believe we've enjoyed Holland America the most, mainly for the elegance.
Sorry to learn things are changing. We've also had many land-based vacations but I get a kick out of cruising for the whole idea of waking up in a new place every day.:)

[suse]

I do love the Ritz.:)

[sail7seas]

I agree, Suse. We do love The Ritz and Four Seasons.

Sign of the times though.

Just last week, The Four Seasons in Boston, one of the best in the country... always rated very high, announced the closing of their very elegant, outstanding, fabulous, wonderful, delightful, our favorite in the city restaurant, their Aujourd 'hui. That was the treat of treats, their Sunday morning brunch was out of this world and it is closed and gone. People no longer were willing to spend those prices.

So......even the best of the Four Seasons is not all they used to be.

(We had our last brunch there exactly a year ago and it was something out of this world. Now I'm happy for the memories.)

[pms4104]

Has anyone noticed we're in a recession? That loads of folks are out of work? That there are fewer people traveling and ALL leisure travel business are doing what they have to do in order to survive.

I am willing to accept some cut back in order for HAL to survive these bad economic times and still exist when things get better...

...Some of the prices people are paying are ridiculous. What in the world do you expect? To go for such cheap rates and to have no changes? It can't happen.
Yes, a recession that, if the economists are to be believed, will last a couple to several years. And, indeed, people on the whole have less discretionary money than in the past.

Cruiselines are faced with more supply (cabins) than demand (passengers) and are peddling unsustainable fares just to fill the ships or nearly fill them.

Something has to give and, therefore, lines are cutting back in little (and not so little) ways and, at the same time, are not in a good posture to enhance their loyalty programs or add any/many amenities.

If indeed the supply is greater than the demand at sustainable fares ... and the recession is projected to continue for some while ... I don't understand the logic of HAL either building yet another large ship (the NA) or retrofitting ships in the fleet to add more cabins, more supply.

Granted, some of the additional cabin retrofitting is being delayed a couple of years. But, in a couple of years, will we still have a supply-and-demand issue that means amazingly low fares to get heads in beds as well as the loss of amenities or enhancements to the onboard experience and the Mariner program?

[RevNeal]

On another thread someone asked a friend of mine 'what is keeping you with HAL?'. That got me thinking. In an e-mail to that friend, I told him that right now it is the itineraries that is keeping us with HAL. Pure and simple - the itineraries.

That IS an excellent question and for the past several minutes I've been thinking about it, too. It's more than just the memories of past cruises and the inertia of sticking with what I "know," for what I've known and those past memories are quickly fading as the current product changes. So, WHY have I stuck with HAL so faithfully, even in the face of declining quality? I think I can enumerate them thusly:

1. HAL has some fantastic itineraries, and they have a fleet large enough to provide service to many exotic points around the world that other Lines either don't or can't service.

2. I have many friends who continue to sail HAL, and I enjoy cruising with them.

3. Shock of shocks, sometimes HAL does, indeed, manage to provide quality and an enjoyable cruise. I was aboard the Ryndam and the Amsterdam this past May and both cruises were reminders of what HAL can, indeed, do. Neither ship, crew, or cruise was perfect, however it was a good, solid taste of how good HAL can still be when everything is working right and the crew is well-oiled and functioning well in conjunction with the officers and other staff. Problems existed, but they solved them quickly and with no "attitude" that I've gotten at times on other sailings. The quality of the food was excellent on the Ryndam and certainly good on the Amsterdam, the service was excellent on the Ryndam and acceptably good to sometimes superior on the Amsterdam, and both ships were in excellent condition considering their age and the kinds of service they've seen; yes, the Ryndam needed a little TLC in certain places, but she's a WORKING ship and is going to have little flaws due to nominal wear and tear. Both ships are being lovingly cared for by their crews.

It's those kinds of experiences -- the GOOD ones, like this past May -- that cause me to get re-enthused about HAL and the product that I KNOW they can still deliver. However, it also depresses me to realize that, more and more frequently now, such simply isn't the case ... the quality has been sacrificed.

And, in response to the remark about our being in a Recession and the Lines are in survival mode to weather the storm ... TRUE. I expect that this is having an impact on the quality of the service. However -- and this is a BIG "however" -- the decline in the quality of the service and the increasing demolition of the onboard ambiance (i.e. the style of cruising) has been under way for YEARS (since 2001, if not before), and have very little to do with the Economy. Likewise, these so-called "upgrades" to the Veendam, the Rotterdam, and the Prinsendam which will crowd more people into the same limited deck space, as well as the planned over-crowding of the Vistas and the Signature class ships, have NOTHING to do with the economy and everything to do with the kind of product Seattle is trying to morph the Line into providing.

[longtimecruiser]

Sail, you seem to ALWAYS take up for Hal. Hal was going downhill way before the recession. That is just an excuse for them now. Bev is correct about Crystal. No matter what category cabin you are in on Hal, the fact still remains that the crew is NOT as well trained and the service is far from top notch as it used to be on Hal. This has nothing to do with the recession. Face facts. No matter how cmuch you love Hal, it is a mass maqrket line that caters to the masses. It is NOT a premium line like Crystal and it never will be.

[lorekauf]

Sail, I think that it may be hard to judge the cutbacks and quality of service when you have no other cruise lines to compare HAL with. It is also difficult to say that there are no cut backs, when you like I, only stay in the top category. Of course things are going to be wonderful in an SA or PS. If you cruise on Crystal for instance, you will find the same level of service through out the ship as you receive in the Neptune Lounge. This same statement can not be said of HAL. We enjoy HAL, and we have 20 days booked for next year, but the decline in service and quality is a great concern to me.
I agree.....and I was thinking the same thing but didn't dare say it. It's just like saying the president of a company is treated the same as the rank and file...it just isn't so. I'd love to stay in these accommodations but it's not going to happen without a lottery win. I'm happy that you have such great perspective and I appeciate your post. Thank you.

[wander]

In mid 2008 we went on a 35 day HAL cruise, not a Grand Cruise, just a wonderful cruise. The Fare for the cruise worked out to be $122/day/person for our inside cabin.

In late 2009 we are booked for a 35 day cruise, not a Grand Cruise, just a wonderful cruise. For this cruise our Fare for an Outside, unobstructed cabin is $82/day/person.

This means we get a more desirable cabin for a savings of $30/day/person. Total reduction in our cabin charges for the cruise - $1,050/person.

Now, do I expect the same level of service for this cruise as the last, sadly NO. I do not see any way HAL (or any cruise line) can provide the same service at these rates!!!

Do I like this fact of life NOOOOO, I would rather pay the additional $1,050 per person and have an inside cabin (i.e. go back to the "old days") IF the service, etc would remain the same. However, if the ship's won't fill, HAL must do what it need to do to keep operating. So sad, but in my opinion TOTALLY TO BE EXPECTED as long as folks need to save their money for things like food, clothes, college for the kids, etc.

I am also going on Princess with a friend to Alaska on a 12 night cruisetour in August. We have an outside cabin. Airfare from Anchorage to Seattle is included as well as a night in a Seattle hotel and a bus from SeaTac to Vancouver. Whole package - $101/day/person. Do I expect what I got for a similar Princess Cruise two years ago paying more like $140/day/person PLUS airfare - NO. Sadly NO. How can they?

[rkacruiser]

In my humble opinion, HAL has become too large of an organization with too many ships too quickly. If one thinks back to the "good old days" when the perceived quality that some seem to feel is missing today, the fleet was much smaller. It seems to me that it would be easier to maintain the consistent, excellent standards among a smaller number of ships/crews than it is today with the larger number of ships/crews.

I do not disagree that there have been some strange management decisions coming out of Seattle(i.e. the team concept for cabin stewards). And, certainly the economy is playing a role in the decision making. But, I still believe that it is the sincere desire of management to provide a superior cruise experience for their guests. (For example, those on the 2009 Grand World Voyage, who have experienced other Grand World Voyages, reported that this year's cruise was superior in many ways to other recent world cruises on HAL.)

[crusinrita]

We normally take one cruise a year...since we are still happily working! BUT, one cruise on HAL has made us fall in love (with HAL). We have a cruise booked in November, have had invitations from Friends and Family to cancel this cruise and book with them on other lines, RC, Norwegian, Celebrity.... but we hesitate, think about it and stay where we are comfy.

We love the Noordam and her crew...We have sailed on the "fun" ships and the MEGA ships and will again when we choose to sail with a large group...but when it's its just the two of us...we love the cozy pampered feeling we get on HAL. We have been married for 42 years but still enjoy each other’s company and those quiet dinners and Romantic evenings aboard a beautiful ship.

I am not looking for freebees or trinkets, hoping HAL keeps the important things we all enjoy part of their culture and offerings. If free Internet or beach bag attracts someone, perhaps they should “jump ship” and go with the Marketing Masters on the other lines… Perhaps they are the passengers who are loud in the restaurants, or saving the chairs around the pool for them and 17 of their best friends. Wish them well and let them move on down the road….

Rita

[Krazy Kruizers]

For the last couple of days I have read this thread.

I didn't respond as we have never sailed on Celebrity.

But with all the discussion of HAL -- time for me to chime in.

We have noticed in the last 4 years a slow and continuous decline in the level of service delivered to the cruiser on HAL.

Fewer workers equate to less time for the cruiser.

It's not the training of the workers but the number of workers.

Future cruises on HAL will be determined by itineraries.

We are becoming disillusioned by HAL's itineraries -- same ships doing the same ports year after year.

As for service -- dining room -- we have had some very poor servers -- waited forever to get our meals. And we have also had some excellent servers.

Same thing goes for the cabins -- which we book only SA and PS -- we have had some poor cabin stewards and some really great ones.

Lounges -- again -- some good bar servers and some bad ones.

Concierges -- oh yes -- the majority have been great -- but we have also experienced a couple of LOSERS!!!

Being in a SA or PS doesn't not guarantee that you will get excellent service everywhere on the ships.

As far as perks are concerned for suite passengers, listing of the perks has dropped -- like no more suite dinners on the longer cruises.

Cheap Prices??? --- we haven't seen any of our cruises drop in price in years!!! But of course we rarely do the ordinary 7 day cruises that most do that HAL repeats week after week.

[jimmy2x]

Face facts. No matter how much you love Hal, it is a mass market line that caters to the masses. It is NOT a premium line like Crystal and it never will be.

FWIW, I doubt that most of those who frequent this board are under any illusion that HAL is a "premium" line. People who like the "premium" experience and can afford to do that represent a very small portion of the population.

What makes HAL special to us is the feel of the ship (smaller, less people, full promenade, etc.). We know when booking that the night-life will pale in comparison to RCL or Princess, but these are not issues for us.

This does not make HAL a "better" cruise line as other passengers have different priorities as to what makes a cruise special to them.

Cut-backs may be something we all have to live with, and in reading other boards, certainly seem to be a fact of life everywhere in the "mass-market" arena.

A 14 day Southern cruise in a "B" cabin for under $5200 is a bargain, but still not inexpensive for us as retirees. I could care less about the "perks" of the sort offered by RCL, etc.

[Vic The Parrot]

... and keep the 'gimmes'.





I really can't fathom why you insist on referring to an earned benefit (or gift) as a "gimme".


Does this mean when a company rewards you with something special after 25 years of service, that it's something you demand from them?

When a couple reach thier golden wedding anniversary, does each party say say "You better gimme something good for putting up with me all these years!"

I don't think so ...

Gifts like that come from appreciation, not because someone thinks they deserve them.

So gimme a break. :rolleyes:

[RevNeal]

In mid 2008 we went on a 35 day HAL cruise, not a Grand Cruise, just a wonderful cruise. The Fare for the cruise worked out to be $122/day/person for our inside cabin.

In late 2009 we are booked for a 35 day cruise, not a Grand Cruise, just a wonderful cruise. For this cruise our Fare for an Outside, unobstructed cabin is $82/day/person.

That's about in-line with what I've read elsewhere and what, in fact, I'm going to have on my 18-day Western Med and Crossing this Fall ... a lower per-day cost than in the past.

HOWEVER, I'm facing the exact opposite for 2010. I'm booked aboard the Prinsendam for her 22-day "Top of the World" cruise, departing July 23, 2010. I'm not booked in a Suite or in a Verandah; I BEGAN in an inside M category cabin and they've upgraded me to an outside E, paying the same price as an inside M. So ... here goes. The price for this cruise is (gulp) $243.23 per-person/per-day. Oh, and it gets worse; since I'm doing this solo, I will have to pay the Single-Occupancy rate (which includes a Single Supplement) -- or (drum roll): $356.90 per-person/per-day. This isn't for a Grand Voyage, mind you ... just a "nice wonderful cruise."

Will this cruise be worth 3 cruises of a similar length on another ship? Some people tell me "yes" because it's the Prinsendam. But ... can that still be said given that she'll have had more cabins slapped onto her, increasing her passenger compliment without increasing public deck space OR staff??? I don't think so. I've given thought to canceling this cruise because I can't see the value for the dollar in it ... but I don't WANT to cancel it. I want to do the cruise, and so I'll probably still go ... and pay through the nose for it. I just pray I'm not disappointed with a ship that feels like an over-suffed sardine-can and with sub-standard service because the same number of crew are expected to do more, for more, with less. :( It's THIS kind of degrading of quality in service and over-all cruise experience that has me disappointed in HAL's executive decisions. I can understand cuts in quality due to the need to "weather the storm," but if I'm paying luxury-line prices -- $356 per-day -- I would like to have HAL's old Premium service back, thank you very much.

Remember ... the cruise lines used to be categorized as follows:

Budget
Mass Market
Premium
Luxury

Crystal is a Luxury Line, not a Premium Line; HAL was considered a Premium, along with Celebrity and several other Lines. Sometimes one can still get that Premium "feel" and experience on HAL, but for the most part as HAL has attempted to pick up larger and larger portions of the Cruise Pie (i.e., dipping into the Mass Market cruise passenger pool) HAL's service and product-quality has commensurately slipped into the ranks of the Mass Market Lines. It used to be true, even on "mass market" type runs, that HAL still provided a more upscale experience; that's been lost due to the Mass-Marketing and Mass-Market reconfiguring of their ships (i.e, bigger, more passengers, fewer staff).

[usha]

RevNeal, I'm assuming that you gotta be figuring in r/t air and hotel for that outrageousous price?!:eek:

[sail7seas]

I really can't fathom why you insist on referring to an earned benefit (or gift) as a "gimme".


Does this mean when a company rewards you with something special after 25 years of service, that it's something you demand from them?

When a couple reach thier golden wedding anniversary, does each party say say "You better gimme something good for putting up with me all these years!"

I don't think so ...

Gifts like that come from appreciation, not because someone thinks they deserve them.

So gimme a break. :rolleyes:


[B] Vic.... I'm sorry I am again annoying you. I truly do not go out of my way to do so but, again, I see it one way and you another.

I see the demands/expectations/entitlements as 'gimmes'.

We just look at it differently. That's just the way it is and I suppose it's going to stay that way. :o

[Vic The Parrot]

[B] Vic.... I'm sorry I am again annoying you. I truly do not go out of my way to do so but, again, I see it one way and you another.

I see the demands/expectations/entitlements as 'gimmes'.

We just look at it differently. That's just the way it is and I suppose it's going to stay that way. :o



Yep ... that's what makes the world such a lovely place. :rolleyes:

[bobpatj]

Hmmmm, our next cruise will put us over 300 days, with HAL, and we should be awarded our silver medallions. I'm excited about this! :D We have cruised on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Princess, but have always enjoyed our HAL cruises so much more. They must be doing something right, inspite of all the criticisms. :(

[RevNeal]

RevNeal, I'm assuming that you gotta be figuring in r/t air and hotel for that outrageousous price?!:eek:


No.
That's the price HAL is charging for the 2010 22-day Prinsendam Top of the World Cruise, inclusive of taxes and port fees and nothing else. Surprised?

E-category Outside Double-Occupancy: $5351 per-person
E-category Outside Single-Occupancy: $7851

The Single Supplement, which is calculated upon the base fee (not including taxes and port fees) is 150%.

[MightyQuinn]

That's the price HAL is charging for the 2010 22-day Prinsendam Top of the World Cruise, inclusive of taxes and port fees and nothing else. Surprised?
E-category Outside Double-Occupancy: $5351 per-person
E-category Outside Single-Occupancy: $7851RevNeal I think you're in luck! :D:D

HAL is offering air-inclusive fares on many Prinsendam 2010 sailings, including your 7/23/10 Top of the World. The offer is on their Home Page under Special Offers. Outside from $5199 pp (double) plus taxes BUT this fare includes R/T air from either JFK or YYZ. Air from other cities available on request. Promo RE. http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/SpecialOffers.action?mainMenuItem=SPECIAL+OFFERS

[RevNeal]

RevNeal I think you're in luck! :D:D

HAL is offering air-inclusive fares on many Prinsendam 2010 sailings, including your 7/23/10 Top of the World. The offer is on their Home Page under Special Offers. Outside from $5199 pp (double) plus taxes BUT this fare includes R/T air from either JFK or YYZ. Air from other cities available on request. Promo RE. http://www.hollandamerica.com/find-cruise-vacation/SpecialOffers.action?mainMenuItem=SPECIAL+OFFERS

Thanks. That's helpful.

[SDHALFAN]

Hmmmm, our next cruise will put us over 300 days, with HAL, and we should be awarded our silver medallions. I'm excited about this! :D We have cruised on Royal Caribbean, Celebrity and Princess, but have always enjoyed our HAL cruises so much more. They must be doing something right, inspite of all the criticisms. :(

Pat:

I don't mean to burst your bubble but just a word of warning, and this may not even happen - who knows? Don't be surprised if your silver medallion, in it's litle blue bag, is put into a regular HAL envelope and shoved unceremoniously into your mail slot along with an invitation to attend the awards ceremony and have a group photo taken with all the other silver medallion recipients.

This happened to me on the Amsterdam's 2007 GWV and then to a tablemate of mine on last year Grand Asia/Australia cruise. There are so many people on these cruise that have 700+ (and I mean waaaaay +) that they don't have time to recognize anyone with under 500 days.

You will still have your silver medallion to show off (most expensive piece of jewellry I own;):D) but don't expect bells and whistles. I am
Looking forward to meeting you onboard ship after Sydney. I used to live in Cleveland but got so tired of the snow and so moved to Southern California back in 1966.

Valerie:)

[SDHALFAN]

Thanks. That's helpful.

Hi Greg:

Heck I'm paying way less than that for an outside guarantee (EE, if I remember correctly) on this year's Grand Australia/New Zealand cruise. Of course, it's a 63-day cruise (from Los Angeles - 67 day cruise from Seattle) but then again I am retired. Just think what you have to look forward to.

As always, I love reading your posts.

Fair winds and following seas and have a wonderul, wonderul cruise.

Valerie:)

Oh, forgot to mention that I get slapped with that dreaded single supplement also but it is worth it to me to have my cabin to myself - a place of refuge, so to speak, where I can just "chill" whenever I feel the need.

[pspercy]

I wonder if the other cruise lines would accept your Hal days and give you their benefits just to get your business?

Try it, it's quite likely they would, especially if there was recent activity (or even a future booking too).
I've done it with airlines' programs.

[RevNeal]

Hi Greg:

Heck I'm paying way less than that for an outside guarantee (EE, if I remember correctly) on this year's Grand Australia/New Zealand cruise. Of course, it's a 63-day cruise (from Los Angeles - 67 day cruise from Seattle) but then again I am retired. Just think what you have to look forward to.

As always, I love reading your posts.

Fair winds and following seas and have a wonderul, wonderul cruise.

Valerie:)

Oh, forgot to mention that I get slapped with that dreaded single supplement also but it is worth it to me to have my cabin to myself - a place of refuge, so to speak, where I can just "chill" whenever I feel the need.

Thank you!
Yes, I DO enjoy having a cabin all to myself. It's a nice perk to traveling solo, and worth the "cost" ... most especially if traveling with friends who are in other cabins. :D

I would so much love to do a 30 - 60 day or longer cruise. I can manage up to about 30 - 35 days -- I get 5 weeks of Vacation a year, inclusive of Sundays, and can negotiate for me if I need/want them -- but 60 days would require I take sabbatical leave. I hope to do that within a few years of the 20th Anniversary of my Ordination (which will be 2011).

As for retirement ... that's at least 30 years off. I can't even imagine retiring, but when I DO I plan to take the world cruise.

[Flying-Dragon]

I think there will be changes to Mariners Program in the near future but I don't think they will be huge.

They DO need to make changes, however, to attract the new cruisers. They have no loyalty to any line and will go where they get the best prices and the best amenities. If everyone else offers 'goodies' to their repeaters, HAL will have to at some point in order to get the new cruisers.


I completely agree. We are quite new cruisers - our first last year with Celebrity and our second this year with HAL. We are singularly unimpressed with anyone's loyalty programs - better pillows or flowers in cabins or cocktail parties to meet the officers are not the sort of thing which attracts us to either cabins or cruise lines.

Our next will almost certainly be Cunard and then we might explore Princess or even Regent. we want to compare the lines and enjoy the routes, and our loyalty will be to whichever lines give us the best experience, not the perks for rebooking given that those perks are not particularly exciting in the first place.

Maybe we're a new generation of cruisers, but in our view loyalty has to be won, and not with trinkets.

[suse]

Hi Rev.
That is alot of money per diem. Maybe your church could do a special collection for you. We have always done that for our pastor who would be going on vaca.:)

[RevNeal]

Hi Rev.
That is alot of money per diem. Maybe your church could do a special collection for you. We have always done that for our pastor who would be going on vaca.:)

Thanks! And, yes, it's a great deal of money ... both per-day and for the entire cruise. It will be, by far, the most I will have spent on a single cruise in my life. Thus far they've come down on the price at least once, on one occasion we took the cut and kept our cabin category and on the other occasion we accepted the difference as an upgrade to an outside ... which, quite frankly, is a far superior category on that ship (where the inside cabin beds can't be pushed together to make a queen).

My people -- several of whom share the cruising addiction and a few of whom actually read this board -- are wonderful and very generous to me both in terms of what I am paid and the bonuses and gifts that they give me. On my most recent cruises (in May) they made a very kind deposit to my onboard accounts, thus cutting the cost of that portion of the cruise. I am blessed to have such a loving and supportive church ... such has not always been the case.

[suse]

That your church people are good to you. I once belonged to a church where they fought with each other all the time. Kind of defeats the purpose. Hope you have a wonderful cruise when you are going. Loved the photos of your last cruise. Perfect photos!

[usha]

RevNeal, it's none of my business, of course:o, but there are many online discount TAs to which you could transfer your booking, and get your fare knocked down to just over $6100 for your cat. E single occupancy cabin.
(BTW, I'm not a TA:))

[Pettifogger]

I couldn't care less about the "perks" and, for me, price is not "the king." Since I found HAL, I haven't even read the e-mails from other cruise lines to see whether there might be some "offers I couldn't refuse."

On the other hand, I do want those essentials. As long as we get them, I'm not upset by an economy here and an economy there; if we should stop getting the essentials, I'll start reading those e-mails from other cruise lines.

(I was sorry to hear that my little sweetheart, the Prinsendam, has to undergo surgery.)

[RevNeal]

RevNeal, it's none of my business, of course:o, but there are many online discount TAs to which you could transfer your booking, and get your fare knocked down to just over $6100 for your cat. E single occupancy cabin.
(BTW, I'm not a TA:))

Yes, it's none of your business. However, in talking about money I certainly opened it for general discussion, so you're forgiven. :)

We all have our reasons for choosing our TAs for any given cruise ... and I have mine for this one. Yes, I've done research to see if I could find it significantly cheaper anywhere else. Far from a savings of $1500+, the best I have been able to find for my category and single-supplement status is about $300 less than what I'm paying through my TA. I wonder where you found $6100? Of course, the last time I looked was about 4 months ago, so maybe there's a flash sale of some kind?

[Krazy Kruizers]

I really can't fathom why you insist on referring to an earned benefit (or gift) as a "gimme".


Does this mean when a company rewards you with something special after 25 years of service, that it's something you demand from them?

When a couple reach thier golden wedding anniversary, does each party say say "You better gimme something good for putting up with me all these years!"

I don't think so ...

Gifts like that come from appreciation, not because someone thinks they deserve them.

So gimme a break. :rolleyes:

Hi Vic

Always love it when you chime in.

I personally know that some people on HAL are treated royally when they celebrate their birthdays and anniversaries -- free wine -- free dinners at the Pinnacle -- a rose for each year of their anniversary -- birthday cards on the ship -- anniversary cards on the ship.

Never have we received that.

One year we celebrated our anniversary on a HAL ship -- got nothing.

Just last year the crew working in the Pinnacle kept mentioning about DH going to celebrate his birthday -- when the actual day came -- nothing!!!

When we have sailed on HAL for 25 years -- coming up soon -- do we expect any "gimmies"?? NOPE!! We can't even get them for regular occassions.

[SDHALFAN]

Hi Vic

Always love it when you chime in.

I personally know that some people on HAL are treated royally when they celebrate their birthdays and anniversaries -- free wine -- free dinners at the Pinnacle -- a rose for each year of their anniversary -- birthday cards on the ship -- anniversary cards on the ship.

Never have we received that.

One year we celebrated our anniversary on a HAL ship -- got nothing.

Just last year the crew working in the Pinnacle kept mentioning about DH going to celebrate his birthday -- when the actual day came -- nothing!!!

When we have sailed on HAL for 25 years -- coming up soon -- do we expect any "gimmies"?? NOPE!! We can't even get them for regular occassions.





I am so sorry to hear that you have never even received a card to commemorate a special occasion onboard a HAL ship. Heaven knows you should have, given all the cruises you have taken with HAL (and in a suite, no less).

While I have never received anything close to a free bottle of wine or a free Pinnacle Grill dinner, I have more often than not received a birthday card from "the Captain and Crew" and, of course, the Birthday Cake. My cakes have always been small and less than memorable, but the thought was there and I did appreciate the gesture.

Valerie:)

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks Val

After several disappointments, not even getting the cake in the dining room, we no longer plan cruises around birthdays or our anniversary.

Yonnie

[cp556]

Thanks Val

After several disappointments, not even getting the cake in the dining room, we no longer plan cruises around birthdays or our anniversary.

Yonnie


KK--

I heartily agree with Valerie that, of all people, you two should have your birthdays/anniversaries recognized while onboard.

Last year aboard Westerdam, it was DH's birthday. He received the card from the Captain, another one from the Neptune Lounge concierges, and several balloons magically appeared taped to the cabin's mirror along with a big sign saying "Happy Birthday Mr _______." (I'm betting those came from the Neptune, too.)

There certainly seems to be no set formula for these celebrations, does there...

Carol in SC

[GeriatricNurse]

There must be something wrong with DH and me but we sail HAL because we love the ships, the crew, the people. I don't care about some free internet minutes or a drink nearly as much as I care about the cruise product.

Who cares if I can spend an hour (or hours) for free on line during my cruise if I don't love the cruise itself? Out of all cruises we went to other cruise lines, not a one had a crew that compares - IMO - with HAL's. Just my opinion, but freebies won't pull us from HAL. I suppose everyone's priorities and requirements differ but we enjoy all of our cruises and eagerly wait for the next.

Give me a great crew, a fabulous ship, give me HAL and keep the 'gimmes'.

JMHO.....


And don't forget to have HAL return the TRAYS to the LIDO, (just in case you are handed a hot plate with no where to place it, except on your hand)!!!

[lorekauf]

Yes, it's none of your business. However, in talking about money I certainly opened it for general discussion, so you're forgiven. :)

We all have our reasons for choosing our TAs for any given cruise ... and I have mine for this one. Yes, I've done research to see if I could find it significantly cheaper anywhere else. Far from a savings of $1500+, the best I have been able to find for my category and single-supplement status is about $300 less than what I'm paying through my TA. I wonder where you found $6100? Of course, the last time I looked was about 4 months ago, so maybe there's a flash sale of some kind?
And here is the thing...people look at double occ. and forget single is more. Love it :D when people say oh you must be able to get a better deal then that. The truth is I'm not usually getting any smokin' deals on my cruises because they tend to be more exotic. I'm taking more mainsteam cruises now so the prices are a little better. I find it funny when people say "I can go for $80 a day". That's great.....but it's usually (not always) on a bread and butter run.

[lorekauf]

I personally know that some people on HAL are treated royally when they celebrate their birthdays and anniversaries -- free wine -- free dinners at the Pinnacle -- a rose for each year of their anniversary -- birthday cards on the ship -- anniversary cards on the ship.





But that is different....because it's them;).

[usha]

And here is the thing...people look at double occ. and forget single is more. Love it :D when people say oh you must be able to get a better deal then that.
I thought I made it clear in my previous post, but the just-over $6100 price I was talking about is for a single.:cool:

[lorekauf]

I thought I made it clear in my previous post, but the just-over $6100 price I was talking about is for a single.:cool:


I'm surprised you were able to that pricing right from the website. Usually what you have to do is phone in to get the price. I have found it to be very difficult to get the pricing from a website for single supp. Maybe you have a better website then I've been looking at.

[Krazy Kruizers]

KK--

I heartily agree with Valerie that, of all people, you two should have your birthdays/anniversaries recognized while onboard.

Last year aboard Westerdam, it was DH's birthday. He received the card from the Captain, another one from the Neptune Lounge concierges, and several balloons magically appeared taped to the cabin's mirror along with a big sign saying "Happy Birthday Mr _______." (I'm betting those came from the Neptune, too.)

There certainly seems to be no set formula for these celebrations, does there...

Carol in SC

We were on the Westerdam for 16 days last year -- during that time DH had a birthday -- it was that ship where the Pinnacle staff kept mentioning it but when the actual day came -- nothing -- not even from the Concierges -- but we didn't expect anything from them since we had a problem with one of the concierges (and I learned later that a few other people also had problems with this same concierge).

[usha]

I'm surprised you were able to that pricing right from the website. Usually what you have to do is phone in to get the price. I have found it to be very difficult to get the pricing from a website for single supp. Maybe you have a better website then I've been looking at.
You can register online at some agencies for prices that won't pop up unless you're logged on.
If you need or expect a lot of "handholding" from an agent, this is probably not the way to go, but if you already know what you want, and just want to save a ton of money, it's definitely worth the savings, IMO:).

[lorekauf]

You can register online at some agencies for prices that won't pop up unless you're logged in.
If you need or expect a lot of "handholding" from an agent, this is probably not the way to go, but if you already know what you want, and just want to save a ton of money, it's definitely worth the savings, IMO:).
No...I for sure don't need a lot on hand holding. One of my friends told me about a smokin' deal he got on a cruise for him and his wife so I thought I would try it. The price I got quoted after registering was way higher then my brick and mortor TA. I have not been impressed with what I have been able to find so far. If it's only a difference of a couple of hundred then it's not worth it to me. Also, since I am Canadian you never know what the price is going to be in the end it you book very far in advance. I've had way better luck with land vacations I've booked online. Thanks for the suggestion however.

[usha]

Thanks for the suggestion however.
You're welcome.:)

[RedmondCruiser]

Greg -- I'd opt for the three cruises rather than the one in a heatbeat. Bargins are out there and even for verandas and suites. In this market you can really stretch the dollar. There are several cruises that are not bargins why pay the premium price ? A suite guarentee on a 19 day PC cruise in Nov. is going for $121 PP ( and thats from HALs web site ) As long as its a warm weather cruise I'm looking at price first.

Ron

[LAFFNVEGAS]

We were on the Westerdam for 16 days last year -- during that time DH had a birthday -- it was that ship where the Pinnacle staff kept mentioning it but when the actual day came -- nothing -- not even from the Concierges -- but we didn't expect anything from them since we had a problem with one of the concierges (and I learned later that a few other people also had problems with this same concierge).

Yonnie, I think you hit the nail on the head, on the WEDM it was the crew and espeicially the one in the Neptune and a few others which I will not bring up which would be the ones to initiate a birthday celebration. Not all ship's crew are created equal and if you wait a few months the crew change and that ships changes too. I think it was probably bad timing of the combination of crew and officers you have had and especially that sailing. We have been on ships where we have become personal friends with crew and Officers and it is a world of difference between ships that we are not. It was night and day difference between the Eurodam in December and Westerdam last month. But I also have come to not expect anything, and am thrilled if we are treated special for a special occaision. I have learned with so many HAL sailings in the past year that there really is NO Consistancy between the ships in the fleet and it all has to do with the combination of who the Officers and crew are on board. No ONE person makes the difference.You can be on one ship where the service is absolutely wonderful but the food is fair to good then board another ship and the service is really not what it should be but the food is fantastic. Again it all depends on the Executive Chef his crew.

Over all HAL offers a Great product for the Price but they will never be exactly the same.

[lorekauf]

As long as its a warm weather cruise I'm looking at price first.

Ron
I'm in the same place you are right now....but I have taken more exotic cruises in the past. Right now paying off my mortgage is my #1 priority. I can do the more exotic cruises later. For some I'm sure one more cruise to the Caribbean is just not doing it for them.

[Mary Ellen]

For some I'm sure one more cruise to the Caribbean is just not doing it for them.You've nailed it. DH has not done a Caribbean cruise since Jan 1994. I've only been because I was sailing with dear friends and that is what they wanted.

We're booked with Greg next year on the Top of the World cruise. I really did not appreciate the earlier posting that one should not do that one cruise, instead take more Caribbean - Panama Canal cruises. We'd rather stay home - or go to Disney World (which we love). Just because we find the Caribbean boring, doesn't mean others should not go. I could not imagine being so presumptuous as telling someone planning a dinner at Morton's, The Palm, Ruth's Chris... to go to Mickey D's instead as they could eat out more often. Different people have different tastes/interests.

[RevNeal]

Greg -- I'd opt for the three cruises rather than the one in a heatbeat. Bargins are out there and even for verandas and suites. In this market you can really stretch the dollar. There are several cruises that are not bargins why pay the premium price ? A suite guarentee on a 19 day PC cruise in Nov. is going for $121 PP ( and thats from HALs web site ) As long as its a warm weather cruise I'm looking at price first.

Ron

I understand.
We'll see. However, I want to cruise aboard the Prinsendam -- that's part of the reason why I chose the cruise -- and the Prinsendam has always sold for more. Period. And, this is a once-a-year cruise which HAL runs; hence, it costs more. It's certainly NOT a Warm Weather Cruise, either ... not when sailing up to the Polar Ice Pack!!!!

This November I'll be on a Trans-Atlantic Crossing, aboard the Rotterdam, paying about $100 per-person/per-day. Similar excellent deals are available on other cruises, true, but my time is limited. :)

[Pettifogger]

LAFFNVEGAS: I'm not very interested in personal recognition, but I couldn't agree more with the general proposition that which officers one happens to get is far more important than most passengers realize, including me until recently.

[Sea King]

I personally know that some people on HAL are treated royally when they celebrate their birthdays and anniversaries -- free wine -- free dinners at the Pinnacle -- a rose for each year of their anniversary -- birthday cards on the ship -- anniversary cards on the ship.

Never have we received that.




wonder why:confused:

maybe, the people you've referred to just happen to be friends with certain crew .. if, friends send cards and flowers to friends on land, why shouldn't they do that if on board:rolleyes:

seems to me that some people worry about what they're not receiving rather than enjoying the cruise experience itself

[gizmo]

For about 2 years we've been hearing that HAL is going to upgrade their Mariner Benefits. The rumors have even been "officially sanctioned" by officers aboard ship at Mariner Receptions, etc. However, as of today we've heard nothing. And, quite frankly, I don't anticipate any particularly attractive new benefits being added to Mariner Status passengers ... and here's why:

HAL has already demonstrated that they are not interested in keeping those of us who have been with them for many years by totally disregarding our input, our opinions and interests, when it comes to many features of the cruising experience: from the degrading of onboard ambiance and the plummeting of quality in on-board service to what they're doing to their ships -- butchering the gorgeous old ones with so-called "upgrades" that ruin them -- and the kind of new ships they're putting into service (over-sized, over-crowded, under-staffed, plastic-and-Ikea-cheap). No, they don't care about us nor do they really want us any longer; we are part of the Line's past, not what the Administrative "higher-ups" view to be the line's "future." What they want in HAL's future are the new, never-before traveled, one-time cruisers ... people who will take that "once in a life-time" 7-day mass market cruise, buy all the photos and junk being sold in the onboard shops, then go home and tell friends who will do the same. This is how they'll replace us. HAL is willing to jettison about a half-million people who cruise 2 and 3 times a year on the longer cruises (10-60 days) in order to pick a couple-million different people every year who will cruise once, won't be comparing the present cruise with prior cruises on the Line, and who won't notice as traditions are flushed in favor of passing fads and cheep, flashy, fluff.

I have 2 cruises booked with HAL, and deposit-credit for 2 more cruises that I'm going to spend at some point in 2010 or 2011. After this, I don't know what I'm going to do. If these cruises are good ones -- as good or better than my Alaska sailings this past May -- I may book yet another HAL cruise. Who knows? However, I will also admit that Cunard, Princess, Oceania, Celebrity, Azamara, Seabourn, Crystal, and Regent are now on my Radar for future cruising possibilities. HAL has proven that they have no loyalty to me, as a 200+ Day Mariner, so why should I be loyal to them? And ... no ... little trinkets and worthless new benefits won't change things. Providing high quality service and being responsive to my wishes regarding the kind of cruise experiences I want to buy is what will change my attitude and keep me cruising HAL.

Rev,

I couldn't agree with you more ! :)

[sail7seas]

I'm in the same place you are right now....but I have taken more exotic cruises in the past. Right now paying off my mortgage is my #1 priority. I can do the more exotic cruises later. For some I'm sure one more cruise to the Caribbean is just not doing it for them.


For others of us......... we can't get enough of the Caribbean. We absolutely adore our warm weather, sun and fun cruises and have been doing them multiple times a year for many years. :D

Long before we ever started cruising, we took a great many resort vacations all over the Caribbean. Not to say we don't like other itineraries, but we never tire of the islands.

[usha]

I'm with s7s on adoring the warm Caribbean cruises;
of course we do our adoring in a balcony cabin as opposed to a suite.:o
We live close to Chicago, so by about February, we're desperate to get outa Dodge.:D
I've been to Europe (not on a cruise) and really love that too, but the Caribbean in winter is the perfect escape for us.
No, it's not the highbrow experience that Europe can be, but so what?
It's a lovely, warm, romantic, relaxing way for DH & me to spend our vacation.

[esther e]

Raising my hand from Florida!! We love the Caribbean and anxiously wait to go every year. We don't care to fly so it's not a horrid drive to the piers. Been everywhere else and if we never cruise to anywhere but the Caribbean, that would be fine. Heck, if we didn't like the weather we wouldn't have moved to Florida!:D