What’s wrong with Vista Class Ships?

[wyplum]

I have read some very negative reviews and comments about the Oosterdam and Zuiderdam. As a result I went on my November 14th cruise with low expectations. Well, I just got off the Oosterdam and was quite impressed. The ship was immaculate, the service great, music in the lounges was good, the Lido deck was the best, with short lines and little waiting, the bed was incredibly comfortable, and my the SS mini-suite was larger than most mini-suites with a huge balcony. I have cruised on Princess, Carnival (3 times), Celebrity (6 times), RCCL, and Norwegian. This was my first HAL cruise, but will not be my last. Am I missing something or are my standards just low?

[RuthC]

Ships are too large
No self-service laundry
Geared to families with children
Too many passengers

I prefer ships the size of the S-class, or smaller. I like to get to know my fellow travelers in a quiet atmosphere. I like to see the same people again and again. I like longer cruises, so laundry must be done.
My point of view for me; YMMV

[sail7seas]

I did not expect to like Vista. We booked and went on Zuiderdam only out of curiousity (and friends of ours being aboard). We fully expected to run away and say Nope, Not for us. We have enjoyed five cruises on Zuiderdam and think her a great ship.

[DFD1]

We had a great cruise on the Oosterdam soon after she went into serivce in the Caribbean. We were on board during a period where there were not an expecially large number of youngsters.

We sometimes enjoy a movie on board and were sorry that they had not included a theatre, but rather were using the Queen's Lounge for movies. That seating in that room did not seem expecially comfortable for movies.

Many experienced cruisers here have commented that they prefer smaller ships.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I am so happy you had a great time! The Oosterdam is a magnificent ship. If you check out my review for our 11/7-14 cruise on her, you'll see that for the most part I speak very highly of the entire cruise.

Personally, I prefer the smaller HAL ships but that's a personal preference.

Having visited an "S" suite, I can understand how much you loved it. It's a wonderful cabin. Love to hear more about your cruise! Did you love Half Moon Cay? I always love to see how people feel who have never been there before.

[lknick]

IMO, there is nothing wrong with the Vistas. Some just like it 'the way we were.'

And that's why there are so many complaints. RuthC got it right...but she failed to tell the most important part: 'Just don't change anything. And if you must, I'll find something wrong.'

[sail7seas]

Ruth....

I probably should know but I do not.

What does the "ymmv" mean?

My point of view for me; YMMV

Thanks.

[wyplum]

Love to hear more about your cruise! Did you love Half Moon Cay? I always love to see how people feel who have never been there before.
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Never got a chance to see HMC. The weather did not permit. I was quite disappointed. We did receive a $13.22 pp refund because we could not port.

[Himself]

I did two weeks on the Zuiderdam in 2003. I was on the Eastern Caribbean during the last week of May and on the Western Caribbean Cruise during the first week of June in2003. We were crowded both weeks. Over sold with a lot of children in room with parents. I liked the ship, I liked the atmosphere and this is one person in their mid-sixties who doesn't mind seeing children on board. You know they are the next generation.
Himself

[RevNeal]

"YMMV"

Your Milage May Vary.

:)

I'll have a POV after next Feb's cruise on the Oosterdam.

[sail7seas]

Thanks, Rev

We'll be interested to hear your Point of View. :)

[Thoth]

What's wrong with Vista class? Not much in my book.
THE BAD
...There is more walking to get around= she is big!
...Queen's lounge= didn't work as second show theater. Not enough room for the shows/ events held there.
...The $15 per day hydro pool. I counted 5 no extra cost hot-tubs, and witnessed few passengers in hydro pool.
THE GOOD
...the mix of the old and new. HAL blended sucessfully the best things of the old HAL with some useful new ideas. The O -dam still felt like Holland America but with a refreshing new twist.
...the improved layout of the Lido restaurant. the food stations eliminates much for the buffet line queue. For example I never had to wait for pizza or pasta.
...CLASS. All the shows were family friendly. The service was attentive. Holland America has thankfully chosen to retain its dignity. The O-dam like her older sisters has the feel of a classic ship.
...GREAT SHOWS. I found the shows and the main show lounge to be a step up over the older HAL ships. The came up with new idea and gimmicks which likely bring HAL up to the standards of other lines' shows.
....LARGER BUT STILL PERSONAL. the Cruise director and his staff were the best at treating me as a person, as compared to the other(older) HAL ships. Seems to me that the company has made a commitment towards congeniality.
The Vista ships are larger and there are more people, however I couldn't tell any difference in regards to meeting and mingling. She didn't feel crowded and I met the same friends every day.
....GLASS LIFTS WERE COOL!
....Bathrobes in room. I didn't get one on the other(older) ships
...more things to do or places to hide(take your pick)

[Gonna cruise soon]

Wyplum-what cabin number/deck were you in? We are booked in 8094 next spring and the layout looks a bit different... Just curious-glad you had a great time!!

[Krazy Kruizers]

When the Zuiderdam made her first appearance, there was a lot of negative talk. And HAL listened and made some changes on the Oosterdam.

We were a little apprehensive when we booked the Oosterdam last Feb/Mar. But we did find we liked her.

And now we are booked for the Westerdam.

[Candy]

The problem is with the cruisers' expectations. These are newer ships and it took some time to work out all the kinks, so the first reviews reflected every little imperfection. We have sailed the Zuiderdam 3 times with a 4th planned for May. We have had no less than great service and generous accomodations.

Then again, some cruisers complain about everything, sometimes just to show how important they think they are.

I have read some very negative reviews and comments about the Oosterdam and Zuiderdam. As a result I went on my November 14th cruise with low expectations. Well, I just got off the Oosterdam and was quite impressed. The ship was immaculate, the service great, music in the lounges was good, the Lido deck was the best, with short lines and little waiting, the bed was incredibly comfortable, and my the SS mini-suite was larger than most mini-suites with a huge balcony. I have cruised on Princess, Carnival (3 times), Celebrity (6 times), RCCL, and Norwegian. This was my first HAL cruise, but will not be my last. Am I missing something or are my standards just low?

[tommy]

We noticed a definite decline in service on our Oct sailing on the Zuiderdam.The cruise it self was good and we had a good time.But in the past the biggest difference [IMO} in Holland and other lines was thier service.This was no longer evident.In fact the dining room service was the worse we have had in 18 cruises.And in reading other replys it wasnt just us and not just the Zuiderdam it seems to be a common problem of many Holland passengers.Maybe due to new tipping policy or just Holland personel cutbacks,but it was a problem on our sailing. TOM

[Burnsey]

We sailed on both the Zuiderdam and the Oosterdam and enjoyed both ships very much. I, however, like the S class ships because of the hugh balcony and cabin that you get when you book a S suite. They are much bigger than the S suites on the Vista class ships. Also, I like the smaller size of the S class ships. ( Easier to find your suitcases at the end of the cruise)

[lknick]

The decay of service levels in the dining room is common across all lines. Read the posts about the Brittania on QM2. Read the posts on RCI and Princess. All the same. 'It just ain't what it used to be.'

Cunard has had 'added' tips since 2000. Others are similar.

So maybe it has nothing to do with the individual line, but with either the ability to recruit staff given the number of new mega ships or the reduction of staff as cost containment.

There used to be a thing called 'airline food.' Now there's a thing called pretzels or buy your own.

[shipcafe]

The decay of service levels in the dining room is common across all lines. Read the posts about the Brittania on QM2. Read the posts on RCI and Princess. All the same. 'It just ain't what it used to be.'

Cunard has had 'added' tips since 2000. Others are similar.

So maybe it has nothing to do with the individual line, but with either the ability to recruit staff given the number of new mega ships or the reduction of staff as cost containment.

There used to be a thing called 'airline food.' Now there's a thing called pretzels or buy your own.

Good points, LKnick.

I do enjoy the Vista Class ship and I prefer the Westerdam of all three. I think that she has just a perfect combination of colors and classy touches, in my opinion. Some may still consider there to be too many yellows and purples but they suit me just fine.

When taking a personal cruise I still have no reservation in booking an S-Class ship and tend to love their size. . . as indicated by my own upcoming cruise!

Steve

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I think the Vista class is great. Having been on the Zuirderdam and the Oosterdam before finally being on a S Class I can't see that much difference. I prefer the Oosterdam over the Zuirderdam but they are both great. Yes, I do agree that the Ryndam has a bit more refined elegance and is slightly smaller. The size to me did not jump out, but maybe because I cruised on the bigger ship first. Overall with most of the locations named the same and in about the same location they both have HAL touches written all over them and I think they are all GREAT:D I actually felt the crowds a few more time on the Ryndam far more than the Oosterdam I think passenger limit to size of the ship is still the same.Also many have spoke about the flow on the Vista Class, IMHO I think it is much better on the Vista Class. There are too many dead ends on the S Class.You come out of the Dining Room on the lower level of the S Class and are stuck:confused: You have to take the elevator or the stairs. Then down by the Wajang, same thing. I don't remember any areas like that on the Vista Class. I especially disliked the part where you were stuck out of the Dining Room. It tended to get crowed and hard to even get to the stairs for all the people waiting for elevators.

[kruzkeen]

What's wrong with Vista class? Not much in my book.
THE BAD
......Queen's lounge= didn't work as second show theater. Not enough room for the shows/ events held there.
...The $15 per day hydro pool. I counted 5 no extra cost hot-tubs, and witnessed few passengers in hydro pool.
THE GOOD
...the mix of the old and new. HAL blended sucessfully the best things of the old HAL with some useful new ideas. The O -dam still felt like Holland America but with a refreshing new twist.
...the improved layout of the Lido restaurant. the food stations eliminates much for the buffet line queue. For example I never had to wait for pizza or pasta.



I have edited the remarks of THOTH as I agree with the major points.

Besides the shows in the Queens Lounge, watching a movie there was impossible.


I thought that the dinning room was more congested, the tables for 6 smaller, they seemed closer together than on the other HAL ships. The noise level from conversation was high. This was the case for lunch, as well as dinner, when the room was not full.

[jcike1980]

We Have Sailed Both Zuiderdam 8-03 And The Oosterdam 3-04. Just Booked The Westerdam For B2b Cruises 11-6 And 11-13-2005. We Loved The Vista Class Ships. Jcike

[RuthC]

RuthC got it right...but she failed to tell the most important part: 'Just don't change anything. And if you must, I'll find something wrong.'Please let me make it clear, I have never said anything like "...I'll find something wrong." I pick what I think I will like in the first place and live with my choice.

Generally I'm easy-going and not looking for anything wrong. If something isn't right I keep moving until I get to where I need to be. If I must try to rectify a situation then I use the "we have a problem" approach. A sense of humor smooths the stormiest seas.

Rev, thanks for answering sail's question for me; I'm only now getting back to the boards.

[wyplum]

Wyplum-what cabin number/deck were you in? We are booked in 8094 next spring and the layout looks a bit different... Just curious-glad you had a great time!!
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We were in cabin 6090, a perfect location, central to everything.

[~Nereus~]

Haven't been on the larger ships but since we like B2B cruises, we like laundromats on our ships... but since we don't do suites... for those people lack of laundries are probably other peoples' problems

If you don't cruise a lot you probably don't notice the deterioration of service and food... but I think it's a universal problem...

[Candlemaker]

To Laffnvegas,

I saw that yesterday you had your 50th Birthday!. Happy belated Birthday!!. I also noticed that you are booked on an Oct.2005 Mex. Riv. cruise aboard the Oosterdam. My wife and I are booked on Oct.8th cruise on the Oosterdam. Are you on the same cruise?

Candlemaker

[Randyk47]

From our experience on the Oosterdam I can't say there's any one thing that's wrong with the Vista class. The difference for us was that we'd only previously cruised on the smaller S class ships. What I think really impacted us was the drop in service from our previous Ryndam cruise to our Oosterdam cruise. It had been 5 years and a lot changed in that department and obviously it impacted our view of the Oosterdam. Our cabin was great and overall the ship was beautiful.....it just lacked that one little spark that we'd always experienced with HAL and that certainly wasn't the ship's "fault". Maybe for the wrong reasons we still prefer the S class.....and that might be an attempt to recapture the memories of wonderful cruises with excellent service throughout the ship rather than the ship itself.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

To Laffnvegas,

I saw that yesterday you had your 50th Birthday!. Happy belated Birthday!!. I also noticed that you are booked on an Oct.2005 Mex. Riv. cruise aboard the Oosterdam. My wife and I are booked on Oct.8th cruise on the Oosterdam. Are you on the same cruise?

Candlemaker
Candlemaker, Yes that is the one:D There was a Roll Call Board going with quite a few that were also on this cruise. I will try to resurect it to the top. Then you can join us.
Thanks for the Birthday Wish. It was a great birthday. I don't think 50 will be too bad:p

[seaventurer]

I have sailed on the Zuiderdam twice - in the past year. I have also sailed on her close relatives: Costa's Mediterranea and Carnival's Spirit. My 1st Z cruise was in an SS suite which was glorious. The 2nd Z cruise was in a standard balcony cabin. I am not a HAL loyalist, so be prepared since I (obviously) move around from line to line...

I believe Holland America is over-rated. The product is good and the Zui is beautiful - but, there are too many aspects of the ship and the service which simply fall short of the expectation.

First, I have no idea how HAL touts their dining as 5 star. Radisson is 5 star. HAL is ok and IMO not much better that what I experienced on CCL's Spirit - that's right! I disagree with respect to comments related to diminished service based on industry-wide cut backs. After sailing on NCL's Spirit last month, my first "Freestyle" adventure, the quality and level of food and service in their no-charge dining venues was as good if not better than what I had on my two Zui cruises. Now remember, I like the Zui, but you asked.

On my second Z cruise in a standard Balcony cabin, I loved the BIG bed which took up most of the cabin, yet the sofa was tiny - as was the bathroom and what's up with those 2 tiles glued on the wall? Of course, the tub was great!

My question is why did HAL decide to alter the design layout found in CCL's Spirit and Costa's Med? If you have had the opportunity to sail on these cousins, you will find that the theatre, or what could have been the Queen's Lounge is present - and forward on the Med and Spirit. Plus, on these ships the extra charge restaurant is up top imbedded in the funnel providing more public space where HAL positioned the Pinnacle. I could get real technical but my point is the public spaces and flow of the Vista class ships seem to be much more fragmented than that of the Spirit and Med. Take for example, the aft pool bar arrangement which even HAL bar staff can't figure out - their storage closets are away from bar and even the phone is unaccessible if they are behind the bar.

Buffet service, layout and design on all three ships are the best I have ever experienced but only the Vista Class ships are missing a food and buffet station aft by the pool for breakfast and lunch...it's just not there.

Summary: Vista Class ships are beautiful and if you haven' sailed on her cousins, you wouldn't understand the issues I have elaborated on. I still believe the bathrooms could have been jazzed up a bit in the design phase (particularly for a HAL ship), and wonder why some of the design features of this class are lacking so many of the unique and innovative features found on her cousins. Enjoy her as I did - she has a heart of her own and does outclass many of her rivals...

[NoCruiseBlues]

IMO, I'm relieved to read such rave notices about the "Odam". My wife & I willbe sailing to the Mexican Riviera aboard her on Jan 22. My being a "BIG CITY" boy & having sailed on many Mega ships in the past, I feel very much at home aboard "BIG SHIPS." I'm just curious if anyone reading this postinng will be onboard the ship during the same week as we are. As of this posting, & to my knowledge there is just one other couple sailing with us. If this is right, then if you can join us it should be BLAST, & furthermore no crowded rooms. May ALL OUR CRUISES BE PLEASANT & MEMORABLE ONES.

[Krazy Kruizers]

NoCruiseBlues

If you are used to Mega ships, then you won't have any problems on this ship. Compared to Princess' and RCI's mega ships, the Oosterdam is not huge.

Don't forget to check the roll call board for your particular sailing.

[Roadwork]

It is not exactly a mega ship but larger than the older Holland ships.

I disliked the following

Photo shop in front of the dining room entrance. Horrible
Ocean Bar is split up.
Entire layout of the ship, was not to my liking
Tables seem closer together in the dining room.
No laundries
Some cabins are smaller
Queens lounge is worthless
Main Show Lounge, too many bad views
Decor was tacky, I do realize this is subjective but I disliked it.

I am not sure if I like the Lido or not. On one hand it was easier going through the entire thing on the older ships, on the Vistas you have to go from one to another to get what you want and don't have to wait in that one line.

We had a nice cruise, but just didn't care for the ship. We will stick to the older Hal ships.

[lknick]

Ocean Bar is split up.The having two 'ocean bars' was an attempt to pacify non-smokers.

No matter what HAL does, they can't win. Smokers hate to be segregated from the music.