Underhanded Marketing HAL

[donh1]

Just experienced their very unfair marketing ploy. There has been numerous discussions about price drops and the fact that HAL will credit you back the difference. That does not include balconies or suites. Take a look at their brochure and you will see that the VH cabins and SZ suites in the brochure are not available. When the ship is not selling well these 4 cabins and 2 suites come available at the new lower price. In our case the price I paid for the lowest balcony on the Westerdam was $799. Two days after the final payment date they had a sale selling balconies for $649. I tried to get an adjustment and was told no because I had a higher priced cabin. Family traveling with us were able to get a room credit because they booked an HH lowest ocean view cabin.

Just take a look at their brochure and you will see the lowest balcony and also suite are not available. Something as bold as this has to be definitely legal but I wonder if it playing fair with those customers who book early.

So next time you hear that someone got free upgrade from a SZ to higher suite or from a VH upwards you can be assured that they bought there cabin at a bargain basement price and there was no place else to put them other than up.

I am certainly going to continue to travel with HAL but I am a little wiser.:mad:

[brucory]

Just experienced their very unfair marketing ploy. There has been numerous discussions about price drops and the fact that HAL will credit you back the difference. That does not include balconies or suites. Take a look at their brochure and you will see that the VH cabins and SZ suites in the brochure are not available. When the ship is not selling well these 4 cabins and 2 suites come available at the new lower price. In our case the price I paid for the lowest balcony on the Westerdam was $799. Two days after the final payment date they had a sale selling balconies for $649. I tried to get an adjustment and was told no because I had a higher priced cabin. Family traveling with us were able to get a room credit because they booked an HH lowest ocean view cabin.

Just take a look at their brochure and you will see the lowest balcony and also suite are not available. Something as bold as this has to be definitely legal but I wonder if it playing fair with those customers who book early.

So next time you hear that someone got free upgrade from a SZ to higher suite or from a VH upwards you can be assured that they bought there cabin at a bargain basement price and there was no place else to put them other than up.

I am certainly going to continue to travel with HAL but I am a little wiser.:mad:

Sorry to hear about your dissapointment. I always thought that once you went past final payment as you did, that there was no discussion about credit back of the difference. You mentioned booking a "higher category". What did you book? I assume they are now offering VH guarantees at the lower price? I can certainly understand they need to have a way to sell spare rooms without having to refund everyone the difference. If they did this, they would have very poor yields.

Hope it doesn't spoil your plans and have a great cruise!!!

:D:D:D

[coffeeclutch1]

If you were happy with the price when you booked it, you should still be happy. You can't worry about how much it might came down later. Enjoy your trip!

[PennyAgain]

You are paying to get selection and choice. People who book later don't have those options.

Once I make a booking decision, I don't look back. Aggravating yourself over a few dollars isn't worth it. My mental vacation starts with the booking decision.

Aggravated I can get at work!

[happy cruzer]

My experience is that HAL and Princess did not do the price drops ever. Rebook it you like and take a chance on losing your room. also could rebook after final payment if the drop was worth it.

RCL, etc. were the ones doing price drops. and they have new policies really limiting them doing it now. The industry seems to be changing in this regard.

[Candy]

...snip... So next time you hear that someone got free upgrade from a SZ to higher suite or from a VH upwards you can be assured that they bought there cabin at a bargain basement price and there was no place else to put them other than up. I am certainly going to continue to travel with HAL but I am a little wiser.:mad:

SZ cabins are sold as GTYs (kind of a holding category for Superior Suites and above). Since there are only 2 of them on Vista ships, ALL but the 2 get upgrades.

[jtl513]

... ALL but the 2 get upgrades.Or maybe ALL get upgrades, and some Vx gets the SZ. :)

[kakalina]

I've only had HAL drop the price before final payment was due. Never after regardless of the cabin category.

[donh1]

I am now simply a smarter consumer. Anyone such as myself who is booking a guarantee room has only one thing in mind. VALUE FOR YOUR MONEY.
If by chance you are lucky enough to get one of these sales after the final payment date there is large savings. On my sailing our balcony would have been almost 25% cheaper $300 and almost a certain chance of an upgrade due to the minimal numbers available. Holland America remains my Cruise Line of choice and as always we should have a great cruise.

[catl331]

I've only had HAL drop the price before final payment was due. Never after regardless of the cabin category.Before final payment, is it necessary to cancel and rebook to get a price drop, or is there another strategy that can be used? Like: ask for OBC's for the difference? If you cancel and rebook do you lose the HAL CPP premium and have to pay that again?

[brucory]

Before final payment, is it necessary to cancel and rebook to get a price drop, or is there another strategy that can be used? Like: ask for OBC's for the difference? If you cancel and rebook do you lose the HAL CPP premium and have to pay that again?

This is where a good booking agent comes in (whether they be internet or bricks and mortar, or HAL PCC). Price drops should be honored before sailing, however some people have received OBC or upgraded to the next category. That would be the choice of the purchaser and the agent, depending on the intended outcome.

It is really worthwhile to check other cruise sites before final payment to see if there is better pricing available, but there really is no point after final payment unless the difference is substantial enough to take on the cancellation penalty and rebooking saving.

:D:D:D

[bepsf]

Some folks go on and on and on about how they've found a lower price for their cruise after they've booked or after they've made final payment - and how awful and unscrupulous the cruiseline is for not giving them the lower price...

...so I wonder - do these folks do the same thing when they make other purchases?

After they buy a car and take it home, then see a rebate or special financing deal advertised on TV a few weeks later that wasn't available when the purchase was made - do they go back to the dealer and insist on getting the rebate/better financing deal?

When they buy clothing or something for the home and see at the end of the season that the store is having a clearance sale - do they go back and insist on being refunded the difference?

If they buy a box of cookies at the grocery store on Thursday and see a coupon in the following Sunday paper for 25 cents off that same box of cookies - do they take the box and coupon to the store Monday and try to get that 25 cents off the box they bought last week?


It's the same with upgrades: If someone buys a new Buick, do they grumble when the dealer doesn't hand them the keys to a Cadillac? When they order a Hamburger in a restaurant, are they disappointed when the waitress doesn't deliver a Steak? Do they fuss and complain to the Airline and anyone else who will listen when they don't get bumped up to First Class on a Coach ticket?

I just wonder what's the difference with cruises that makes some folks into such awful money-grubbers?

[Pete Jackson]

It probably goes in cycles; if a cruise line will drop fares as much as needed just before sailing just to avoid having empty cabins, but won't offer these reductions to early bookers, then they shouldn't be surprised if they have difficulty selling bookings well in advance. If they promise early bookers that they will receive any price reductions that occur later, then they will get more early bookers. Either way, the nature of the contract should be made clear when people book, so that people don't become disgruntled when big price reductions are made later.

Problems arise when both pax and cruise lines try to have it both ways.

I think that the best solution is for the cruise lines to make a commitment about 90 days before sailing - decide what the final price will be and sail with empty cabins if that is the result.

[Nasmas]

I think most people are aware that they are taking a chance when they book early BUT they will get the cabin they want by booking early. If you wait too long, waiting for the price to go down, you risk not getting the cabin you want or in some cases, a booked cruise. We usually book when we get the urge and if the price goes down, so be it. I'd think the cruise lines have to sell some cabins at a higher price. It might not sound fair but that's life. You buy a car in the spring, you can bet the price is going to come down in the fall when the new models come out, but that's just the way it is. Most companies can't sell everything at discounted prices and expect to stay in business. The cruise lines have to sell X number of cabins to break even. I don't think anyone could expect them not to try to fill the rooms. You might be surprised on a plane if you surveyed the pax. There probably won't be two on the flight that paid the same price. They need to sell seats to stay in business. I agree they could be a little nicer about it but that's just fact.

[Tricia724]

It's just like at the casino.....how much of a gambler are you?

Will the price of your cruise go up or down, and are you willing to take the chance?

Do you care whether you sail on this particular cruise at this particular time or do you have a Plan B and Plan C if the prices rise dramatically or the cruise sells out?

Do you care about the size of your cabin, or the deck, or whether it is fore, aft, or midship or near the elevators or under the pool or over the thrusters?

Do you care whether you get early or late seating for dinner, or is open seating fine for you?

There are all kinds of options that factor into booking a cruise. Everyone has different priorities and tolerance levels. BUT once you make the final payment, don't look back.

There will always be someone who got a "better deal" if you look hard enough and want to drive yourself crazy. We have also seen prices drop and others get a break we did not get. In a couple of cases we got the break. You just have to make your decision about what is important to you, go with it, and let the chips fall where they may.

[Candy]

I think most people are aware that they are taking a chance when they book early
Some TAs, who work on commission, will infer that if you buy a GTY cabin, you will get an upgrade to a much nicer cabin. They fail to advise that you could very well get the worst cabin in that category.
BUT they will get the cabin they want by booking early. If you wait too long, waiting for the price to go down, you risk not getting the cabin you want or in some cases, a booked cruise. We usually book when we get the urge and if the price goes down, so be it.We book about 6 months out in order to get the best cabin selection. We usually book 8099 on Vistas and hope for an upgrade/upsell offer. If it isn't offered, we are TOTALLY comfortable in 8099 at the price we paid. I suffered through a Norway GTY and after several months, was totally satisfied with a PH.
The cruise lines have to sell X number of cabins to break even. I don't think anyone could expect them not to try to fill the rooms.On a 7-day cruise, even if the ship sails at 120%, it doesn't break even until day 5, and sometimes not at all. It's always about onboard revenue. They have goals in every department that must be met, and that's why you see more sales at the end of the week.

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[bepsf]

Some TAs, who work on commission, will infer that if you buy a GTY cabin, you will get an upgrade to a much nicer cabin.

Those are some dumb TA's...

They should instead state honestly that upgrades rarely if ever happen - and persuade clients to book better/more expensive cabins so that their commission will be greater!

[Candy]

Those are some dumb TA's... They should instead state honestly that upgrades rarely if ever happen - and persuade clients to book better/more expensive cabins so that their commission will be greater!
GTY upgrades happen quite often; the SZ always. In the lower cat GTYs the upgrade will reflect the same cabin in maybe a better location. The rarer upgrades are inside to balcony or better.

I wonder if there are some TAs out there who get a flat rate for a booking (like if they work in a boiler room for a company)? If so, it's easier to sell a cheap GTY than a suite.

Candy

[JimVrhovac]

We have recieved price reduction on the cabins prior to final payment but never after final payment.

We book early and get the cabin we want and if the price goes down the better, if not, we are satisfied.

We think the people expect their cabins to be discounted and this is not always corret.

Ruth & Jim

[cruisecrasy]

Some folks go on and on and on about how they've found a lower price for their cruise after they've booked or after they've made final payment - and how awful and unscrupulous the cruiseline is for not giving them the lower price...

...so I wonder - do these folks do the same thing when they make other purchases?

After they buy a car and take it home, then see a rebate or special financing deal advertised on TV a few weeks later that wasn't available when the purchase was made - do they go back to the dealer and insist on getting the rebate/better financing deal?

When they buy clothing or something for the home and see at the end of the season that the store is having a clearance sale - do they go back and insist on being refunded the difference?

If they buy a box of cookies at the grocery store on Thursday and see a coupon in the following Sunday paper for 25 cents off that same box of cookies - do they take the box and coupon to the store Monday and try to get that 25 cents off the box they bought last week?


It's the same with upgrades: If someone buys a new Buick, do they grumble when the dealer doesn't hand them the keys to a Cadillac? When they order a Hamburger in a restaurant, are they disappointed when the waitress doesn't deliver a Steak? Do they fuss and complain to the Airline and anyone else who will listen when they don't get bumped up to First Class on a Coach ticket?

I just wonder what's the difference with cruises that makes some folks into such awful money-grubbers?

YES...if they had not taken actual possession of the 'item' and hadn't already used it..which is obvious with a cruise!

I have asked for rebates and so I guess I am one of those 'moneygrubbers' ' as u put it..however, I take exception to being called 'awful'!! Besides, whats wrong with wanting a deal anyway?? Its the foundation for the business world....:)

If u don't want to 'moneygrub' thats your choice...others do and thats their choice!
Seems to me if more folks had 'moneygubbed' a few yrs ago the economy might not be in as bad a shape now..:(

The cruiselines are offering deals so folks certainly shldn't then be critizied for asking for the deals...or being disappointed & venting a bit when they don't get them as the OP is - IMO anyway!

Happy cruises & lots of 'em!

[brucory]

...so I wonder - do these folks do the same thing when they make other purchases? Do they fuss and complain to the Airline and anyone else who will listen when they don't get bumped up to First Class on a Coach ticket?

I just wonder what's the difference with cruises that makes some folks into such awful money-grubbers?

I get what you are saying Brian, but have to admit something. If I book a coach ticket on an airplane and there is the opportunity to get a credit if the price drops, or an upgrade to first, I am happy to check it out, and ask for it. Anyone who doesn't is missing out at their own loss...

That said, there is no point checking prices if there is not a policy for any change, as was the case with the OP.

:D:D:D

[jhannah]

I'm often chagrined at the great deals last-minute bookers receive. And yet I blow it off because by booking 10-12 months out I got the cabin/location and dining preference I wanted.

[Jade13]

. When the ship is not selling well these 4 cabins and 2 suites come available at the new lower price. In our case the price I paid for the lowest balcony on the Westerdam was $799. Two days after the final payment date they had a sale selling balconies for $649.

I think the key here is that you tried to get an adjustment after the final payment due date. As far as I have known HAL has never adjusted prices for clients after the final payment date. RCCL/Celebrity is the only cruise line that I know who will make an adjustment after the final payment due date if requested. Maybe not that many people ask so they just do it upon request. On my HAL cruises as far as I know they have all been sold out and prices went up before that.

If this is the Caribbean, well that is another situation because of competition prices are lower for just about all cruise lines as they try to fill their cabins. The reason given for no adjustment is another story but that was unusual that HAL adjusted prices after final payment for some of your family members. I have never heard of that. Did they book directly with HAL or through an outside TA?

[Jade13]

RCL, etc. were the ones doing price drops. and they have new policies really limiting them doing it now. The industry seems to be changing in this regard.

What is RCCL new policy now? We received two price drops on Celebrity last year after final payment.

[world~citizen]

Just experienced their very unfair marketing ploy. There has been numerous discussions about price drops and the fact that HAL will credit you back the difference. That does not include balconies or suites. Take a look at their brochure and you will see that the VH cabins and SZ suites in the brochure are not available. When the ship is not selling well these 4 cabins and 2 suites come available at the new lower price. In our case the price I paid for the lowest balcony on the Westerdam was $799. Two days after the final payment date they had a sale selling balconies for $649. I tried to get an adjustment and was told no because I had a higher priced cabin. Family traveling with us were able to get a room credit because they booked an HH lowest ocean view cabin.

Just take a look at their brochure and you will see the lowest balcony and also suite are not available. Something as bold as this has to be definitely legal but I wonder if it playing fair with those customers who book early.

So next time you hear that someone got free upgrade from a SZ to higher suite or from a VH upwards you can be assured that they bought there cabin at a bargain basement price and there was no place else to put them other than up.

I am certainly going to continue to travel with HAL but I am a little wiser.:mad:

HAL is a line that gives you what you pay for.

I have never received an adjustment if cabin prices lower after final payment. On the other hand, I have received some wonderful upgrades. I have sailed other lines where I have never received an upgrade. They did, however, extend price cuts to my booking even after final payment.

I think you are suggesting that HAL isn't applying policy in a consistent (or fair?) fashion. If there is anything HAL likes doing more than setting wacky rules it is defending them as if the life of their first born depended on it.

It is their HALmark so to speak. :D

Smooth sailing to you...

[Jade13]

Before final payment, is it necessary to cancel and rebook to get a price drop, or is there another strategy that can be used? Like: ask for OBC's for the difference? If you cancel and rebook do you lose the HAL CPP premium and have to pay that again?

Before final payment you can get an adjustment. If you were told no, it sounds like you were working with an outside travel agent who said no?

Be very careful about canceling and rebooking. Most insurance policies will no longer cover pre-existing conditions, including the two, HTH and CSA Luxe, that can be purchased at final payment.

You will loose your HAL insurance if you cancel. I have been through this before and it needs to be a transfer to a new cruise. I had this worked out after a longer letter to HAL and a price adjustment before final payment that was not listed as For New Booking Only. The next year I received my price adjustment and kept HALs insurance with no questions. You can not cancel and keep the insurance unless transferred to a new cruise.

[Jade13]

I think you are suggesting that HAL isn't applying policy in a consistent (or fair?) fashion.


The OP states that family members received adjustments after final payment. If so, I have never heard of that. What I want to know is if these family members booked directly through HAL or if through an outside TA who refunded money which came out of their commission?

[DavidJ]

Those are some dumb TA's...

They should instead state honestly that upgrades rarely if ever happen - and persuade clients to book better/more expensive cabins so that their commission will be greater!

I routinely book "GTY" and always get upgrades. On my last cruise, I booked a balcony and got a Penthouse Suite. I have never been disappointed booking a "GTY". I have three on the books now. I love the adventure of wondering where my cabin will be. The worst that can happen is I will get the cat. cabin I booked. So far that has not happened.

[world~citizen]

I routinely book "GTY" and always get upgrades. On my last cruise, I booked a balcony and got a Penthouse Suite. I have never been disappointed booking a "GTY". I have three on the books now. I love the adventure of wondering where my cabin will be. The worst that can happen is I will get the cat. cabin I booked. So far that has not happened.

That is our experience as well.

Smooth sailing...

[Harry1954]

When one ties their vacation to whether or not they win and HAL loses, they are going to be unhappy most of the time since this is HAL's business. Further, I agree with Brian ... unless one is buying value, they are gambling ... do they do this when they buy other purchases? If not, then they are indeed gambling and should expect to lose more than win as the casino is in business to make money, not to give away.
harry

[vb,cruisers]

Lots of people deposit cabins, because in most cases you can do it for $100 per person, and if you change your mind, the deposit can be applied to another cruise within the next 4 years. Then FINAL payment time is due, and some of these people cancel....soooooo HAL needs to fill the ship, and offers them at a lower rate, also, because it is sort of a short notice cruise. Any experienced cruiser will tell you, if you wait until after final payment you can usually get a "good deal", but not a lot of choice.
We take long cruises, and am finding on our next long cruise, the prices have gone up about $1,000 per person, but HAL is not charging me this higher fare.

[Candy]

Occasionally we cruise RCI when there's no HAL ship available. Last summer we booked a mini-suite, and received two price reductions; $660 before final payment and $800 after. When we got the second one I asked if we could instead be upgraded to an owner's suite, and they said only if we paid nearly full price, so we stayed put.

I can understand why an experience like this $1,460 cash refund could make you expect the same on any other line.

Candy the ZuiderPrincess

[jtl513]

... upgrades rarely if ever happen -

I routinely book "GTY" and always get upgrades.

The worst that can happen is I will get the cat. cabin I booked. So far that has not happened.

That is our experience as well.

Ditto. We've been upgraded on all seven of our guarantees. Of course some of them were only a couple of steps in the same class, so some people wouldn't consider them a "real" upgrade. I figure anytime I get a higher-priced cabin than I paid for it's an upgrade! :)

[flag fan]

Some folks go on and on and on about how they've found a lower price for their cruise after they've booked or after they've made final payment - and how awful and unscrupulous the cruiseline is for not giving them the lower price...

...so I wonder - do these folks do the same thing when they make other purchases?

After they buy a car and take it home, then see a rebate or special financing deal advertised on TV a few weeks later that wasn't available when the purchase was made - do they go back to the dealer and insist on getting the rebate/better financing deal?

When they buy clothing or something for the home and see at the end of the season that the store is having a clearance sale - do they go back and insist on being refunded the difference?

If they buy a box of cookies at the grocery store on Thursday and see a coupon in the following Sunday paper for 25 cents off that same box of cookies - do they take the box and coupon to the store Monday and try to get that 25 cents off the box they bought last week?


It's the same with upgrades: If someone buys a new Buick, do they grumble when the dealer doesn't hand them the keys to a Cadillac? When they order a Hamburger in a restaurant, are they disappointed when the waitress doesn't deliver a Steak? Do they fuss and complain to the Airline and anyone else who will listen when they don't get bumped up to First Class on a Coach ticket?

I just wonder what's the difference with cruises that makes some folks into such awful money-grubbers?

I agree with you. Obviously, everyone would rather pay less for something than more for something, but if someone decides to pay a certain amount for a cruise and they get that cruise for that amount, be happy. The cruise line is not cheating them out of anything for delivering the product at that price rather than a lower price. True, someone else who books later may be able to sail at a cheaper price, but they will have few choices in terms of cabins. It would be nice to have the advantages of booking early (choice of cabin) and of booking late (lowest price), but not getting both is not unfair.

This happens all the time on airlines (which, I know, drives people crazy)--the prices are adjusted constantly as seats are sold to maximize profits. That's another instance of a service that has not been delivered not being discounted to someone who already has a ticket.

Again, if you get the cruise you want at the price you agreed to pay--move on. Don't drive yourself crazy by checking the prices afterward or talking to people about what they paid.

[patnfranc]

I think the op was trying to point out was that when they booked their cabin the lowest balcony cat. was not available. After final booking that cat. all of a sudden became availble and they would of booked that cat. in the first place . The same thing happened to me on our May New England cruise. We booked the previous October and the lowest balcony was cat bb, cat bc was unavailable. After final payment I saw that HAL was offering cat bc. I figured it was their way of sellling remainding cabins at lower prices and since they didn't sell, or sold limited bc cabins before, they wouldn't have to credit anyone or very few at the least. This hasn't dissuaded me int the least. I was upgraded to a cat b and then offered an upsell to an sa which i took and will never regret.

Sailing Alaska Sept 19 Amsterdam

[DavidJ]

When one ties their vacation to whether or not they win and HAL loses, they are going to be unhappy most of the time since this is HAL's business. Further, I agree with Brian ... unless one is buying value, they are gambling ... do they do this when they buy other purchases? If not, then they are indeed gambling and should expect to lose more than win as the casino is in business to make money, not to give away.
harry

The worst that can happen is you get the category you booked. Don't book a gty if you would not like that cat. I do not know of any bets you can make in a casino and be guaranteed you will at least get your wager back and can possibly get a higher return. I like those odds.

[pris993]

A couple of years ago we booked a TA on the Westerdam. We booked early, asked at the time of booking if a transfer in Rome was included, the answer was no. Before final payment, the price of the cruise dropped and HAL included the transfer with the new price.

We asked our TA to check on whether they would then include the transfer in Rome. Once again HAL said no.

So our agent cancelled and rebooked our cruise to the lower price with the transfer.

Tell me, this did not seem to be a very smart way of doing business on the part of HAL. We saved about $500 vs the $200 if they had simply given us the transfers. So it is not always the passengers who are looking for the cheapest price but how the cruiseline operates that is crazy.

[donh1]

I think the op was trying to point out was that when they booked their cabin the lowest balcony cat. was not available. After final booking that cat. all of a sudden became availble and they would of booked that cat. in the first place . The same thing happened to me on our May New England cruise. We booked the previous October and the lowest balcony was cat bb, cat bc was unavailable. After final payment I saw that HAL was offering cat bc. I figured it was their way of sellling remainding cabins at lower prices and since they didn't sell, or sold limited bc cabins before, they wouldn't have to credit anyone or very few at the least. This hasn't dissuaded me int the least. I was upgraded to a cat b and then offered an upsell to an sa which i took and will never regret.

Sailing Alaska Sept 19 Amsterdam

Believe me I am not loosing any sleep over it. The point I was trying to make was that right from the time they print their brochures they withheld the lowest cabins in the balcony and suites to prevent someone who has booked well in advance to cry foul when there is a major price drop. They say they are selling a lower category which they are. In the other family member's case he had the lowest OV cried fowl and was given a $75 per person room credit after the final payment date. I understand they are entitled market them any way they please and as a smart consumer it is wise to fully understand why they do what they do.
Interesting that when I booked the Maasdam for last November I booked and paid for the lowest guarantee OV cabin and was pleased at the time to get a free two category upgrade. I know now why they did that.
I regret that if my initial post came across to some as me being an awful money grubber. My intention was primarily to draw attention the initial lack of marketing on the lowest categories and their reasoning.

[Jade13]

A couple of years ago we booked a TA on the Westerdam. We booked early, asked at the time of booking if a transfer in Rome was included, the answer was no. Before final payment, the price of the cruise dropped and HAL included the transfer with the new price.

We asked our TA to check on whether they would then include the transfer in Rome. Once again HAL said no.

So our agent cancelled and rebooked our cruise to the lower price with the transfer.

Tell me, this did not seem to be a very smart way of doing business on the part of HAL. We saved about $500 vs the $200 if they had simply given us the transfers. So it is not always the passengers who are looking for the cheapest price but how the cruiseline operates that is crazy.

Someone who does this, has insurance, and goes to use it could have a problem. Most policies that waive pre-existing conditions clauses do not allow you to cancel and rebook. That is why I think HAL should honor price drops up until final payment.

[IRL_Joanie]

Believe me I am not loosing any sleep over it. The point I was trying to make was that right from the time they print their brochures they withheld the lowest cabins in the balcony and suites to prevent someone who has booked well in advance to cry foul when there is a major price drop. They say they are selling a lower category which they are. In the other family member's case he had the lowest OV cried fowl and was given a $75 per person room credit after the final payment date. I understand they are entitled market them any way they please and as a smart consumer it is wise to fully understand why they do what they do.
Interesting that when I booked the Maasdam for last November I booked and paid for the lowest guarantee OV cabin and was pleased at the time to get a free two category upgrade. I know now why they did that.
I regret that if my initial post came across to some as me being an awful money grubber. My intention was primarily to draw attention the initial lack of marketing on the lowest categories and their reasoning.


After reading all of the aposts above this reply from the OP, I went and looked at Richwmn's site where he has a listing of Charters booked/scheduled aboard the HAL Fleet. It appears to me, that if a Charter has booked a specific # of Cabins in a specific category, this would mean that POSSIBLY could be the reason the lower priced category you wanted were not available. If the charter then falls through, those lower priced woukd become available. And since there are only a certain amount of cabins in that category, your family members got one of (if not the last) of those lower priced cabins.... Makes sense to me anyway.

[YeaYeaYea]

GTY upgrades happen quite often; the SZ always. In the lower cat GTYs the upgrade will reflect the same cabin in maybe a better location. The rarer upgrades are inside to balcony or better.

I wonder if there are some TAs out there who get a flat rate for a booking (like if they work in a boiler room for a company)? If so, it's easier to sell a cheap GTY than a suite.

Candy

That is how it works .................I have found that being your own TA can pay off in the end...............I almost always treat myself right;)

[shotei]

Believe me I am not loosing any sleep over it. The point I was trying to make was that right from the time they print their brochures they withheld the lowest cabins in the balcony and suites to prevent someone who has booked well in advance to cry foul when there is a major price drop. They say they are selling a lower category which they are. In the other family member's case he had the lowest OV cried fowl and was given a $75 per person room credit after the final payment date. I understand they are entitled market them any way they please and as a smart consumer it is wise to fully understand why they do what they do.
Interesting that when I booked the Maasdam for last November I booked and paid for the lowest guarantee OV cabin and was pleased at the time to get a free two category upgrade. I know now why they did that.
I regret that if my initial post came across to some as me being an awful money grubber. My intention was primarily to draw attention the initial lack of marketing on the lowest categories and their reasoning.

Don,
I have noticed the unavailability of the lowest room categories on cruises where EVERY other category is wide open, and wondered about why they do that. By the way, it is not only for balconies and suites, but applies just as well to outside (HH) and inside (NN). Your explanation makes perfect sense.

It is clearly HAL's way to open up the ship to lower price fares later (but still before final payment date) without being obligated to lower the fare for folks who booked earlier at the "higher" categories. The ironic thing is that the folks who book later for the low-priced guarantees may very well end up in better rooms than the people who booked earlier.

I don't think that there is any "foul play" involved, just some interesting inventory manipulation on HAL's part. As a consumer, it's helpful to understand the rules of the game!

Marc

[serendipity1499]

After reading all of the aposts above this reply from the OP, I went and looked at Richwmn's site where he has a listing of Charters booked/scheduled aboard the HAL Fleet. It appears to me, that if a Charter has booked a specific # of Cabins in a specific category, this would mean that POSSIBLY could be the reason the lower priced category you wanted were not available. If the charter then falls through, those lower priced woukd become available. And since there are only a certain amount of cabins in that category, your family members got one of (if not the last) of those lower priced cabins.... Makes sense to me anyway.

Joanie...Richs WEB site does not pertain to Charters at all... Please be careful in your use of the word Charter..

Rich's WEB site only lists large Affinity groups which are booked on a regularly scheduled cruise.. If a TA has blocked space for a non-affinity group or a small group it probably would not be listed under Rich's WEB site..On our Nov. 13 cruise, our TA had blocked space for a non-affinity group & we booked into it..Our group is not listed on his site at all..At a certain time, usually before final payment the Agent has to release the unsold cabins back to HAL to be sold at either a discount or normal fare by both HAL & other TA's..Quite often the TA's themselves will see that their blocked space is not selling & offer a good discount prior to the final payment date...

A CHARTERED vessel is not open for sale to the general public.. It is only sold through the organization which purchases the ship for a week or 10 days..They may even dictate what the port stops will be..The Chartering Organization dictates what price they will charge their members (usually 2-3 times the normal amount) & also dictate if bars or casino should be closed etc..They usually book & pay for their own entertainment..Charters are quite expensive..

Betty

[Nasmas]

These people think they got ripped and nothing any of us say is going to make a difference. I've always thought if a category was not available then it suddenly comes open, that someone cancelled. You will often see a lot of cancellation right before the penalties start. That is a possible explanation. I really can't see the point in HAL withholding them. Some people want the lowest price and don't care about the cabin and if its not available, they probably won't book. I can't see that HAL would have any advantage in withholding these. You shouldn't be so cynical or paranoid.

[jtl513]

Joanie...Richs WEB site does not pertain to Charters at all... Please be careful in your use of the word Charter..He lists 9 that are known charters, and two as "possible charter".

[brucory]

Joanie...Richs WEB site does not pertain to Charters at all... Please be careful in your use of the word Charter..

Here is an article explaining full and partial charters. Note that a charter can be a group, and does not have to be the whole ship,as reported on this site.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=760

:D:D:D

[suse]

Do you not love the term "money grubber"? What a great thing to say to people!! You money grubber! Aaack! Go grub your money elsewhere! Brilliant. Thank you Brian!:)

[TCF]

There are two ways to book cabins. One, book the precise cabin you want, in the precise location you want and pay the price. Two, hang on until prices start to come down closer to the cruise date and take what you can at the cheapest price you can get!

We have only ever had one upgrade on a cruise after 'final payment' and that was a move about 100 feet down the hall from where the original booking was.

You get what you pay for....simple as that!

[serendipity1499]

Here is an article explaining full and partial charters. Note that a charter can be a group, and does not have to be the whole ship,as reported on this site.

http://www.cruisecritic.com/articles.cfm?ID=760

:D:D:D

Sorry about that I stand corrected..I honestly thought that HAL did not have partial Charters at all...And I did not know that Rich was able to pull up charters..

However, in this case HAL is not selling unused cabins from a Charterer..They are selling unused cabins in blocked space for either an Affinity or a non-affinity group..

This is the OP's problem...If you want to take a chance to book late then you might get a good deal. But if you want a particular cabin & a guaranteed confirmation then you book early..

I also believe the name of this thread is very mis-leading..HAL is not doing any "underhanded marketing practices" at all..This is what all cruise lines & airlines must do in order to get enough revenue in to make money on each departure, or they will be out of business very rapidly..

Betty

[Harry1954]

The worst that can happen is you get the category you booked. Don't book a gty if you would not like that cat. I do not know of any bets you can make in a casino and be guaranteed you will at least get your wager back and can possibly get a higher return. I like those odds.
good point .. let me know if you find such a place . i will be right there with you!
harry

[wilsonqbc]

As newbies to cruising we booked our cabin months in advance, regular balcony paid in full from the day we booked.
we were very happy and enjoyed the whole experience.
But when I found that on the same ship a couple in a SA paid a couple of hundred more by holding off, booked weeks in advance , well it did open my eyes a tad to maybe looking more for a nicer cabin and not so much the destination. We are not money grubbers by any means and it didn't leave a bitter taste or anything like that, We had a wonderfull cruise, it just opened our eyes a bit to maybe being more flexible and booking later than sooner. and also not really worrying about where we are cruising as long as its somewhere warm, its enjoyable. if we can get a better cabin by going this route, its just a better overall vacation I'd say.