Carpet shop tour after Epheseus, is that sanctioned by HAL?

[ontheweb]

We were on the Noordam last month. We did two HAL tours. The first was ancient Olympia and the museum in Katakolon. That was superb. The second was Epheseus and the Virgin Mary's House in Kusadasi. That was very good, until the end.

At the end of the tour in Turkey, our guide brought us to a carpet shop in Kusadasi. This was listed nowhere as part of the tour. He made a big deal that it was a Holland America sanctioned shop. We saw how carpets were woven. We were then shown all the carpets. Up to this point, my wife liked it, but I was getting bored with all the carpets. AND THEN THERE WAS A PUSHY SALESMAN IN OUR FACE!

At that point, we immediately started to walk out. We were first blocked from an exit being told another group was about to come in there. We were directed to another exit where our guide was waiting for his tip. (I was tempted to stiff him and tell him to collect from whichever saleman managed to sell a carpet to someone on the tour.)

So does HAL sanction this addition to the listed tour, or do tour guides do this on their own?

Also, is there someone at Holland America in charge of tours that I can complain to about this? (I would also tell them how wonderful our other HAL tour was.)

[happyglobetrotter]

We were on the Noordam last month. We did two HAL tours. The first was ancient Olympia and the museum in Katakolon. That was superb. The second was Epheseus and the Virgin Mary's House in Kusadasi. That was very good, until the end.

At the end of the tour in Turkey, our guide brought us to a carpet shop in Kusadasi. This was listed nowhere as part of the tour. He made a big deal that it was a Holland America sanctioned shop. We saw how carpets were woven. We were then shown all the carpets. Up to this point, my wife liked it, but I was getting bored with all the carpets. AND THEN THERE WAS A PUSHY SALESMAN IN OUR FACE!

At that point, we immediately started to walk out. We were first blocked from an exit being told another group was about to come in there. We were directed to another exit where our guide was waiting for his tip. (I was tempted to stiff him and tell him to collect from whichever saleman managed to sell a carpet to someone on the tour.)

So does HAL sanction this addition to the listed tour, or do tour guides do this on their own?

Also, is there someone at Holland America in charge of tours that I can complain to about this? (I would also tell them how wonderful our other HAL tour was.)

If carpet shopping was not on your tour:eek: the most efficient place to complaint would have been to the port ambassador on the ship or to the guest relations or even Shorex (from the ship).

Now that you are back home, you can always the main number at HAL and ask to speak to someone from post-cruise customer services, they should be able to refer you to the appropriate department. However, after the fact, it will harder to do. For ex, do you remember the name of your guide, the date and number of the bus tour, etc.

It is always easier to complaint from the ship for things like that !

[jhannah]

It must be sanctioned, because we did it when we were there on the Prinsendam. We'd toured Ephesus, then went to this place for lunch. We strolled through the carpet factory, but I don't recall anyone being pushy when we were there. There was a railroad museum next door that wasn't open ... and another passenger and I were peering through the board fence to see their hardware! ;)

[ontheweb]

If carpet shopping was not on your tour:eek: the most efficient place to complaint would have been to the port ambassador on the ship or to the guest relations or even Shorex (from the ship).

Now that you are back home, you can always the main number at HAL and ask to speak to someone from post-cruise customer services, they should be able to refer you to the appropriate department. However, after the fact, it will harder to do. For ex, do you remember the name of your guide, the date and number of the bus tour, etc.

It is always easier to complaint from the ship for things like that !

I do remember the tour guides name (though I might spell it incorrectly. I have the date. I do not remember the tour bus number except that it was in the teens. (On the superb tour, I know the bus number was 1.)

[candbgirl]

My sister was on the Noordam in June and she took 2 tours and both ended at the carpet factory. I am sure HAL knows all about it but you should call and register a complaint. My sister almost bought a rug.

[RuthC]

For future reference:
If your tour does not mention a "shop stop" in the description, and you do have one you didn't want, complain to the Shore Excursion office once back on the ship. Let them know how you feel, and how much time was spent on the shop stop. If it was a significant portion of the tour, and especially if an advertised part of the tour was dropped due to the shop stop, ask for a partial refund.

You may or may not get one, but that's the best opportunity for some reimbursement.
The port lecturer has nothing to do with it.

[Copper10-8]

Being the anal retentive bore that I am, I looked up the HAL shorex (Europe) booklet(s) from the last time(s) we were in the Eastern Med (so this is a compilation of booklets of several years, the most recent being from 2007). Almost Every Kusadasi excursion has the following printed:

"Panoramic Kusadasi & Villages"
............ Light refreshments will be served before you return to the ship or stop in Kusadasi for shopping and a carpet demonstration.

"Ephesus"
......................Return to Kusadasi for shopping, a Turkish carpet demonstration or go directly back to the ship.

"Ephesus Full-Day Tour"
.........................Returning to Kusadasi, you can choose to shop in town, see a Turkish carpet demonstration or return to the ship.

"Three Ancient Cities - Priene, Didyma & Miletus"
...............................Stay in Kusadasi to shop, attend a Turkish carpet demonstration or return directly to the ship

"Ephesus & Terrace Houses"
.......................Back in Kusadasi, you may disembark for shopping and a carpet demonstration or go directly back to the ship.

"Ancient Ephesus & the Virgin Mary's House"
..............................Return to Kusadasi to enjoy the traditional Turkish experience of sipping apple tea while watching a myriad of colors unfold before your eyes during a carpet demonstration. Those interested in purchasing a carpet can do so with confidence. Those not wishing to stay may be transferred directly back to the ship, or may remain in town for browsing in the many shops of Kusadasi.

"Off the Beaten Track: Picnic at Dilek National Park"
...........................You will also have a chance to view a carpet demonstration and do some shopping in Kusadasi, or return directly to the ship

Yep, I do think HAL Shorex knows about the carpet demos in town! Note the different styles used to spell that bad boy out, all of them with the word "or" making it an elective proposition;)

[arzz]

Carpet shopping in Turkey is part of the cultural experience -- we were in Kusadasi almost 20 years ago with the old Renaissance Cruises -- and all of their tours also ended with carpet shopping -- we are not shoppers and certainly did not purchase a carpet -- but we still enjoyed the demonstration and the refreshments -- all part of the experience -- we will be there again this fall and we are still not in the market for carpets but look forward to a carpet store stop even though we will be enjoying a private tour there.

Just look at it as part of the cultural experience -- rather than a shopping stop. In Morroco a couple of years ago we were taken to a shop that sold oils and products made from the nut of a local tree -- do not recall the name of the tree at the present but it is the one that the goats climb to eat and "process" the nuts before the oils are extracted -- again we were totally not interested in purchasing anything but listening and watching there was much to learn about the people and the culture and we still laugh about that stop. When traveling we go with the flow and find it is often the unexpected that is most memorable.

I am sorry that you were so disturbed by the carpet stop but if your tour description truly did not mention it and you were upset the person to complain to would be the shorex manager on board your ship as they are most intimately related to the tours.

[jtl513]

Our excursion in Tunis went to a carpet shop, but I don't recall if it was listed in the tour description or not. It truly was optional, and about 1/3 of the group just wandered around the sook for a while as the rest went to the demo room. I went just to see the rugs, and felt no pressure to buy ... nor do I recall seeing anyone else getting much pressure.

[MightyQuinn]

In Morroco a couple of years ago we were taken to a shop that sold oils and products made from the nut of a local tree -- do not recall the name of the tree at the present but it is the one that the goats climb to eat and "process" the nuts before the oils are extracted -- That would be the argana tree. We did a land trip to Morocco a few years ago & visited a small "organic" farm where we actually saw the goats high in the trees harvesting the argana nuts. I bought some argana oil (tastes like walnut oil) & some lovely soaps in the tiny production facility. We enjoy these experiences that provide a glimpse into different cultures, as long as they're not too staged.

[Cruising-along]

Both our excursions in Kusadasi and Istanbul did list a stop at a carpet shop at the end of the tours. No surprises for us. If indeed yours did not say you would make a stop, you have a legitimate complaint IMO.

The first time (and I guess I'm in the minority here) I actually looked forward to it, because I did want to buy a carpet! :eek: I did NOT get any high pressure at all, and I did enjoy the experience. (and I love my carpet still)

The second time, having no desire to see it again, we opted to just walk around the area, soak up the local flavor, and meet up with their time in the carpet shop.

[jhannah]

These "shopping stops" are very lucrative. The commissions/kickbacks must amount to enough to have them included.

It isn't just the cruise lines who do this. We hailed a cab in Palermo to take us sightseeing. Along the way, the driver stopped and said he had something he wanted to show us. It was a cameo store! I had to argue with him a while to get him to understand I had no desire to look at cameos. That wasn't what I engaged him to do. Lesson learned. I now make it clear up front that I don't want any shopping stops.

[Copper10-8]

Both our excursions in Kusadasi and Istanbul did list a stop at a carpet shop at the end of the tours. No surprises for us. If indeed yours did not say you would make a stop, you have a legitimate complaint IMO.

The first time (and I guess I'm in the minority here) I actually looked forward to it, because I did want to buy a carpet! :eek: I did NOT get any high pressure at all, and I did enjoy the experience. (and I love my carpet still)

The second time, having no desire to see it again, we opted to just walk around the area, soak up the local flavor, and meet up with their time in the carpet shop.

Very similar to our experience in Kusadasi, Carolyn. Been there 3 times. First time, we went in, watched the demo and wound up buying a carpet. Second time, we got off the bus and just hook shanked a left and went strolling by the different stores in town. Nobody said a peep. Last time, we chose to go in again and watched another demo. At the conclusion, we got the salesman, told him, no thanks and walked out the store. Everybody has those options

[G&G]

On our Med Cruise last Summer "08 we did not get the carpet tour after Epheseus. Instead we walked through a market that had signs advertising watches for sale that said:

"Genuine Fake Rolex Watches" for sale

[MrsMuir]

I wish I had spoken up sooner, like during our 2008 Black Sea/Egypt cruise! Our stop at the Pyramids, the Overlook and the Sphinx at Giza were ridiculously short -- like 20 minutes, 5 minutes and ten minutes, with the otherwise nice bus tour guide hollering at everyone to hurry. Our next stop was a huge souvenir and jewelry store, where there was plenty of time -- like an hour -- to have your very own cartouche ordered, etc.

A word to the wise, if you're planning that long bus ride into Cairo. It was worth it, but we still feel the need to book a Nile River Cruise someday so we can really experience the wonders of ancient Egypt.

[Copper10-8]

I wish I had spoken up sooner, like during our 2008 Black Sea/Egypt cruise! Our stop at the Pyramids, the Overlook and the Sphinx at Giza were ridiculously short -- like 20 minutes, 5 minutes and ten minutes, with the otherwise nice bus tour guide hollering at everyone to hurry. Our next stop was a huge souvenir and jewelry store, where there was plenty of time -- like an hour -- to have your very own cartouche ordered, etc.

A word to the wise, if you're planning that long bus ride into Cairo. It was worth it, but we still feel the need to book a Nile River Cruise someday so we can really experience the wonders of ancient Egypt.

We took that Nile River cruise in conjunction with the pyramids, overlook and sphynx at Giza and it was nice, glad we did it! But guess, what? We also visited that infamous huge souvenir and jewelry shop for about an hour. Sure that gimmick runs the same way as the carpet shop(s) in Kusadasi;). Still remember our police officer escorts from the bus taking off their shoes and jackets outside that store in order to participate in the noon prayer. Interesting sight to see them partake in that with their huge semi-automatic pistols sticking out on their hips:cool:

[Cruising-along]

Very similar to our experience in Kusadasi, Carolyn. Been there 3 times. First time, we went in, watched the demo and wound up buying a carpet. Second time, we got off the bus and just hook shanked a left and went strolling by the different stores in town. Nobody said a peep. Last time, we chose to go in again and watched another demo. At the conclusion, we got the salesman, told him, no thanks and walked out the store. Everybody has those options

I'm glad to hear we aren't the only ones to buy a carpet! :D I'm looking at mine right now and love it as much as the day I picked it out. Yep, it's fine with the tour guides if you choose to go out on your own, as long as you meet up with them at the correct time/place. It was great, I had my first cup of Turkish coffee that day. :D

We took that Nile River cruise in conjunction with the pyramids, overlook and sphynx at Giza and it was nice, glad we did it! But guess, what? We also visited that infamous huge souvenir and jewelry shop for about an hour. Sure that gimmick runs the same way as the carpet shop(s) in Kusadasi;). Still remember our police officer escorts from the bus taking off their shoes and jackets outside that store in order to participate in the noon prayer. Interesting sight to see them partake in that with their huge semi-automatic pistols sticking out on their hips:cool:

Next time (please let there be a next time ;)) we want to take that Nile River cruise too. Hated the souvenir shop, the gal there literally attached herself to my hip and wouldn't leave me alone :(....next time I'll know to speak up and complain to the tour guide.

[iancal]

Relax, have some apple tea, and enjoy the show. If you do not know what you are buying, you will pay too much. It is like buying jewelry in the Caribbean...unless you are very aware of what you are buying there is a very high probability that you will pay too much at best, or get ripped off big time.

[SeaDays]

We were also on the Roman Empire cruise (late July - early August), and took the same tour as you. Really enjoyed this one!

Holland America's tour brochure and website clearly indicates that this tour concludes with a "carpet demonstration". On board, the shore excursion staff repeated this information, and indicated that their agreement with the various carpet shops prohibited high pressure sales. Ours was very low key, and not objectionable in any way.

We clearly understood that this was part of the tour prior to its start.

[Pettifogger]

It seems to me that a lot depends on the nature of the stop. Carpet shops seem to me to represent a legitimate part of the Turkish culture, while jewelry shops would not in most countries. (I know, one could argue pearls in Tahiti.)

I suppose the question could be framed as 'if someone was definitely not interested in buying, is it likely that they would still be interested in learning more about the product?'

On another cruise line, I once sat on a bus with a dozen or two other passengers while three or four passengers shopped for jewelry about as long as we spent at the historical site. It didn't occur to me to complain to shore excursions, but I did make a point of it on the 'end of cruise' evaluation.

I'd like to think that when it occurs, it's an abuse by the tour people and not by the cruise line, but, of course, the cruise line could and some maybe do put a stop to it pretty quickly.

When it's quite obvious that the stop is not primarily in the interests of the guests, I consider it something we should not tolerate. (It has happened to me many other times when a cruise line was not involved and I still feel an echo of my anger when I remember it.)

[kalliekae]

[quote=Cruising-along;21204196]I'm glad to hear we aren't the only ones to buy a carpet! :D I'm looking at mine right now and love it as much as the day I picked it out.

I'm sitting here looking at the rug my parents bought many years ago when they were on a similar cruise. Hopefully, we will be able to do that cruise in the future!

[LadyFurn]

There was no mention of a carpet stop on our tour in May, either. We specifically took that tour because there was no mention of it and we were also told by the guide that it was a stop at a Holland America approved shop. Luckily it was close to the ship so we just walked back. I was also left with the feeling that I had been tricked...

[ontheweb]

There was no mention of a carpet stop on our tour in May, either. We specifically took that tour because there was no mention of it and we were also told by the guide that it was a stop at a Holland America approved shop. Luckily it was close to the ship so we just walked back. I was also left with the feeling that I had been tricked...

Thank you for posting that. I'm the original poster in this thread, and there was definitely no mention of a carpet shop in anything we saw before we booked the tour.

Our tour was Ancient Epheseus and the Virgin Mary's House. There were at least a half dozen busses doing that tour, and probably almost twenty doing Epheseus in some form. They obviously could not have all been going to the HAL approved carpet shop.

[ekerr19]

We had the same with our Ephesus tour. We declined to purchase at the time, but filled out a card for possible future interest.

A few months ago, the owner of the shop was in the U.S. and I bought three Hereke rugs - two silk and one wool - he called and I remembered him - I thought "what the heck" and he came over on a Saturday morning. I am extremely pleased with the rugs and the prices. :)

I didn't feel pressured at all - even when they came to the house. They were really nice and we reminisced about our visit to Turkey.

[vb,cruisers]

Yes...the Carpet Factory tours are mentioned in the tour description. We just didn't go, and instead walked through the Bazar/marketplace and back to the ship. There are other ports where factory tours are part of the ships tour....like it or not, it is what it is, and you are told in advance, if you read the tour description.

[atimetraveler]

Those carpet stops are built into the price of the tour.......in short there is money behind the scenes but that is taken into account when pricing tours. Contact a private guide and ask..they will give you two prices..one with and one without the stop (they will try hard to get you to the stop-keeps their carpet friends happy). And yes the length of the tour was planned to include the stop...no stop and your tour is shorter..so it isn't costing you time at other stops.

Lastly, the tough love part--your not in Kansas so chill and go with the flow. Other countries 'work' differently-open your mind and deal with it.

[Iwannavacation]

We were on the June 18 trip and did the same carpet tour/sales pitch. HAL is undoubtedly getting a big kick back from anyone who buys a carpet. The place had a large wool carpet that they first asked $17,000 (!) for, then $8500. We eventually saw the same carpet for $3500. We were told by another place that all the carpets are made in two factories in the country, and everyone sells the same thing.

We actually enjoyed the show, took it for what it was, and didn't let the high pressure get to us. Overall in fact, we enjoyed the entire Kusadasi experience; some of the carpet salesman we talked to were very tongue in check about the whole thing. We found them refreshingly real and unpretentious.

[ekerr19]

Lastly, the tough love part--your not in Kansas so chill and go with the flow. Other countries 'work' differently-open your mind and deal with it.

David - That IS the attitude one needs to adopt when travelling through Turkey - the culture (especially related to shopping!) is far different. Thanks for the nice post. :) It's a good piece of advice.

[NHRedSoxFan]

We had the carpet tour at the end of a Celebrity excursion, but when we got off the bus in town we were told that "for those of you who are interested in carpet making/sales etc., follow us into this building" So we went, had the turkish tea and watched them flipping those carpets into a huge pile. We enjoyed it, then walked around the town, and ended up buying a carpet from another dealer. It was in the excursion description and it also stated "optional".

[cruiseing marly]

We did the carpet demo and when we were in Turkey bought some textiles Canadains should take take note customs wanted 17% dutie on that type of product. that would hurt on a15000.00 dollar carpet.

[LadyFurn]

Boy, I said that "we're not in Kansas" phrase a lot on our trip, too! We really enjoyed Turkey but I am sorry I still am with the original poster... the carpet demonstration was NOT listed on our tour. It wasn't a big problem but we still got taken by surprise by it:eek: If I had to have a carpet demonstration to get back to Turkey, though, I would do it in an instant!

[hammybee]

Our tour in Istanbul concluded as most do, in a carpet shop, for apple tea.
Hammybee acquired 2 carpets and arranged to have them shipped back home. Back onboard, the tea wore off and Hammybee came to her senses.

She had just spent more on 2 carpets than the cruise cost and so she called 1) Amex and declined the charge and 2) the carpet place to cancel the order. They were gracious and apologetic that they had disappointed Hammybee and wanted the opportunity to make it right. ( Man these guys are good). Hammybee declined.

Istanbul was an overnight port call and the next day Hammybee and family took a cruise on the Bosphorus. About an hour into the cruise, Hammybee got paged. Interesting, given no one other than immediate family knew where Hammybee was at this moment and said family was with her. So yeah....the carpetbaggers had tracked Hammybee down, via the cruise line ( not HAL).

The next day Hammybee and Co. arrived in Ephesus. A group of nicely dressed men were waiting at the dock with a sign with Hammybee's name on it. ......Now this was fun. Hammybee did not acknowledge them and thought this the end of the story.

As this cruise progressed throughout Greece and Italy,there were daily messages for Hammybee to contact the carpet dealer. Hammybee ignored them all.

On the homefront, the carpets arrived. So did the Amex bill showing the original charge, a credit and another credit. Now Hammybee has the carpets and more than enough money for another cruise.
The carpetbaggers obviously realized what had happened and began calling Hammybee at home during the wee hours to negotiate. This was fun.

Eventually Hammybee had the carpets shipped back, at their expense and authorized Amex to reverse the duplicate credit.

Moral of the Story: Do not drink the apple tea, while in a Turkish carpet shop or alternatively, do not read Hammybee's way too long posts.

[Cruising-along]

Love it Hammy, I'm glad it all worked out! (that must have been some apple tea) :D

[Copper10-8]

Hammy, sources tell me these guys are looking for ya!;)

http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p73/Copper10-8/Turkey-TurkPolisIstanbul.jpg?t=1253154337

[CruisingChics]

Those carpet stops are built into the price of the tour.......in short there is money behind the scenes but that is taken into account when pricing tours. Contact a private guide and ask..they will give you two prices..one with and one without the stop (they will try hard to get you to the stop-keeps their carpet friends happy). And yes the length of the tour was planned to include the stop...no stop and your tour is shorter..so it isn't costing you time at other stops.

Lastly, the tough love part--your not in Kansas so chill and go with the flow. Other countries 'work' differently-open your mind and deal with it.

First may I say a little bit about culture. I lived in Turkey for 2 years and have been back about 6 times since leaving 30 years ago. Carpet weaving is a major part of the history and culture of this beautiful country so you have GOT to get the negative sales pitching notion out of your mind on THIS one... (diamonds in the Carribbean, not so much...WAY out of place~!)

Carpet making has been around in Turkey for generations and if you can get your hands (or feet) on a hand-woven carpet (I have several), you are very smart... I have never paid much attention to the manufactured ones so I can't comment on those. Carpet industry in Turkey is a major thing and they are very proud. Indulge them 10 minutes of a history lesson..... it's not going to kill you. Turks also happen to love being hospitable to visitors and the DEMONSTRATION of HOSPITALITY just happens to come in the form of a carpet demo. Don't insult them by leaving in a huff because you failed to read the fine print in the tour brochure (that's not their fault) and/or "you aren't interested in buying a carpet" (not that this was your original question, I'm just saying, for the next time)...

Second a little bit about the HAL connection to the carpet stores.
THERE ARE MANY OF THEM NOT JUST ONE so YES indeed EVERY TOUR can stop at one of them and not be overcrowded (until one gets overlapped.).
If you must complain, READ THE FINE PRINT. Almost all the Ephesus tours stop at a carpet shop at the end, and indeed, if you just look over your shoulder, you will see the ship at the end of the pier, about the distance of a football field away... But.... if you decide to wander the bazaar, you might get annoyed (also) by the persistent sales people trying to get your attention to buy.... leather.... purses.... coats.... tea.... coffee.... copper... shoes... candies... postcards... ceramics... WHATEVER... because it seems that some (too-many) foreign salespeople believe that the way to do business is to be pushy and persistent~! Even those ridiculous kiosk people in the mall here at home in the USA selling head massagers and knock-off perfumes and purses..... and you can tell by their accent that they are not American.....
My comments should, by no means, be misconstrued as PICKING ON THE LACK OF POSITIVE SALES TACTICS BY OTHER NATIONALITIES but I can't recall anytime that an American sales person kept pestering me for a sale.... (unless you count the door-to-door vacuum guys but that was a long time ago)... During my 12yrs of travels, I have found that especially in the Middle East and Africa, heck, even in many parts of Western Europe, even children get into the pressure game, even if they're just hawking a pack of gum.

So... don't misunderstand the pushy sales guy. He just hasn't had a chance to attend any of those cool sales/persuasion seminars that travel the country at the local Hilton... (sorry that was a joke)...

Like I said. I lived in Turkey for 2 years. I loved it and would go back in a heartbeat if my job or family required it. No question.
But learning about the carpet is part of the culture. It's part of the experience. You have obviously missed that part of the explanation of the tour. It's definitely there and HAL definitely knows about it.
Shore Ex knows about it.
AND INDEED the Port Lecturer knows about it.
It's NOT supposed to be a hardsell. They are told that and if they were ever complained on for that, they would get told not to. They are told NOT TO.

So have a glass of tea.
Watch them throw carpets.
Say thank you and walk around the bazaar.
Just Enjoy Turkey~!! :) :)

[ontheweb]

Boy, I said that "we're not in Kansas" phrase a lot on our trip, too! We really enjoyed Turkey but I am sorry I still am with the original poster... the carpet demonstration was NOT listed on our tour. It wasn't a big problem but we still got taken by surprise by it:eek: If I had to have a carpet demonstration to get back to Turkey, though, I would do it in an instant!

Thank you for supporting my original post.

Let me reiterate a few points:

1. This was NOT listed in any cruise tour description.

2. It would have been a pleasant interlude (My wife liked it; I did for a while, but then got bored) if at the end there was not a pushy salesman in our face implying we had drank their apple tea and now had to buy. And then they tried tp prevent us from leaving because another tour was expected to enter where we wished to exit.

3. There were about 20 busses doing some sort of Epheseus tour. There were not enough "Holland America approved" shops to accomodate all of them, so not all of the tours could have been ending there.

4. And we did make a purchase at one of the stalls at the bazaar, so we were not insulting the culture of Turkey.

[Cruising-along]

Thank you for describing the Turkish culture so well CruisingChics, that's exactly how we felt about it. As you can see in the attached photo, not everyone felt the way we did. :rolleyes:

Would we do it again? Probably not, but I'm so glad we did it once!

[hammybee]

Turks also happen to love being hospitable to visitors and the DEMONSTRATION of HOSPITALITY just happens to come in the form of a carpet demo. Don't insult them by leaving in a huff because you failed to read the fine print in the tour brochure (that's not their fault) and/or "you aren't interested in buying a carpet" (not that this was your original question, I'm just saying, for the next time)...

WHATEVER... because it seems that some (too-many) foreign salespeople believe that the way to do business is to be pushy and persistent~! Even those ridiculous kiosk people in the mall here at home in the USA selling head massagers and knock-off perfumes and purses..... and you can tell by their accent that they are not American.....

My comments should, by no means, be misconstrued as PICKING ON THE LACK OF POSITIVE SALES TACTICS BY OTHER NATIONALITIES but I can't recall anytime that an American sales person kept pestering me for a sale.... (unless you count the door-to-door vacuum guys but that was a long time ago)... During my 12yrs of travels, I have found that especially in the Middle East and Africa, heck, even in many parts of Western Europe, even children get into the pressure game, even if they're just hawking a pack of gum.

So... don't misunderstand the pushy sales guy. He just hasn't had a chance to attend any of those cool sales/persuasion seminars that travel the country at the local Hilton... (sorry that was a joke)...

Just Enjoy Turkey~!! :) :)

Bargaining is a part of the culture in most parts of the world. My hat went off to the salesmen I encountered with my rug ordeal. Centuries of experience demonstrate that drama and persistence are effective. If it was not, tactics would have changed eons ago.

There are few among us who have not made a " pity purchase" while on vacation, which is the only thing that can explain so many U.S. people returning home from Caribbean vacations, wearing straw hats with projectile birds, on top. ;)

The carpet experience is an immersion into the Turkish culture that cannot be acquired by spending a day, riding on a bus, listenting to stats and looking at tiles and ceilings, in mosques.

Embrace your inner Turk. Enjoy the dance.

[ekerr19]

In the Bazaar - My favorite, the sign/saying, "genuine fakes"...

And seriously, the pulling, guiding, bartering, etc. turned off my DH, DS and DNephew, but my Sister and I LOVED it all. :D

[Pettifogger]

It has been my experience that cruise ship passengers are viewed as the "geese who lay the golden eggs" almost everywhere that cruise ships go.

We have disembarked in ports where the taxi prices from the dock are fixed at more than double the usual price and considerable effort has been undertaken to see that no competition can exist.

We have gone to tour bus stops where the prices seemed to be two or three times higher than in any of the regular stores in the area.

We went to one city where two consecutive cab drivers completely ignored our requests to take us to a specifically named store and took us to two or three others dedicated to the tourist trade.

I have learned nothing useful from all this. I lived in one foreign country for a considerable period of time and learned some of the language, knew what prices were supposed to be and I wasn't treated much better than any cruise passenger. Feeling that I shouldn't be treated like just any foreigner, I fought back by declining unreasonable prices without much success.

I love to travel, so I still go and "lay golden eggs," most of which are removed from me by some kind of forcible caesarian procedure, but I have never really reconciled myself to that aspect of travel. But I still go.