"Service" cats?

[Toad]

"It's not a dog, it's a (large) cat, and I'm not blind, or deaf, and I don't have him for mobility issues (or emotional support), but due to HAL's service animal policy, we need to bring him along *everywhere* we go. Which is fine, he's used to it, but it just kind of limits our ability to do things like, say, go horseback riding.

We're not interested in doing the indiginous village tour - we're very "techie" people and were more interested in seeing the locks and the workings of the canal, and my husband likes the old train cars, so he wanted to do the domed excursion.

It may be, if this group of blind people had any assistance dogs with them, they were limited by the same warnings and that HAL has been slapping me with - the kinds of things that would make them not want to leave the ship at all. Lots of "We're not responsible if your animal is harmed in a foreign port" type of stuff. "


This is a quote from a thread on a RR excursion in the Panama Canal. I am really curious, is someone pulling my leg, or is this really true? Do people have "Service Cats"? Are they allowed onboard? I have never heard of such a thing, but would think that many people who are allergic to cats would be very unhappy.

[brucory]

I don't think anyone is pulling your leg... You can find more info on cats as service animals by using google. We are going on this cruise (if it is the same one) and most of the people on our roll call seem very keen to meet the bengal tiger - Apparantly there are no problems for those with allergies because the cat is hypo allergenic... Also, the poster bringing the service animal has been amazingly productive and helpful to others on our roll call too. We look forward to meeting them!!!

:D:D:D

[IRL_Joanie]

"It's not a dog, it's a (large) cat, and I'm not blind, or deaf, and I don't have him for mobility issues (or emotional support), but due to HAL's service animal policy, we need to bring him along *everywhere* we go. Which is fine, he's used to it, but it just kind of limits our ability to do things like, say, go horseback riding.

We're not interested in doing the indiginous village tour - we're very "techie" people and were more interested in seeing the locks and the workings of the canal, and my husband likes the old train cars, so he wanted to do the domed excursion.

It may be, if this group of blind people had any assistance dogs with them, they were limited by the same warnings and that HAL has been slapping me with - the kinds of things that would make them not want to leave the ship at all. Lots of "We're not responsible if your animal is harmed in a foreign port" type of stuff. "


This is a quote from a thread on a RR excursion in the Panama Canal. I am really curious, is someone pulling my leg, or is this really true? Do people have "Service Cats"? Are they allowed onboard? I have never heard of such a thing, but would think that many people who are allergic to cats would be very unhappy.


While my hubby is allergic to cats and dogs both, he does suffer, willingly, with our beautiful dog Mid Night (Whom I just discovered from another CC member (Thank You ANNE!!) is a Schipperke and NOT a Chow/mix as we'd be told)

Anyway, my point is that if a service animal of any type is needed for a fellow cruiser, he will suffer, willingly for them to be able to cruise also.

Here is the info from a google search:
http://www.itchmo.com/cats-as-service-animals-1558

Joanie

[Toad]

I don't think anyone is pulling your leg... You can find more info on cats as service animals by using google. We are going on this cruise (if it is the same one) and most of the people on our roll call seem very keen to meet the bengal tiger - Apparantly there are no problems for those with allergies because the cat is hypo allergenic... Also, the poster bringing the service animal has been amazingly productive and helpful to others on our roll call too. We look forward to meeting them!!!

:D:D:D

Do you really think this is a tiger, and not just a large cat?

[Toad]

I guess I am just incredulous, that posters would get their knickers in a twist over so many things and yet no one has questioned this!!!!! I agree the poster on the roll call board seems very intelligent and helpful HOWEVER, many, many people are severely allergic to cats and I do not think would appreciate dining with one.

[willowoodf]

I had asked for a link to the original threat, but I found it!

And BTW, this is probably a Bengal CAT, not TIGER. The Bengal cat is a highly trainable large domestic cat with leopard-like spots.

Mary

[brucory]

Do you really think this is a tiger, and not just a large cat?

I think I should have said leopard, not tiger. Maybe the poster will share more with you if you ask on the roll call where you saw the post. If people get their "knickers in a twist" about a service animal, they probably just need a little more education about it...

Are you coming on the cruise to the Panama Canal? We have a very welcoming group with lots of great info...

:D:D:D

[LAFFNVEGAS]

OK so I just sit down to look at the computer and my cat Joey who loves me jumps on my lap and is purring loudly and the first thread I look at is this :D Trust me he would love to be a Service animal for me ;) And in all honesty I could see him being far easier to take on board rather than a dog :)

[English_in_Spain]

I don't see how this is a 'servce' animal when the person states

"I'm not blind, or deaf, and I don't have him for mobility issues (or emotional support)"

What is the 'service' this cat supplies then?

[heathriel]

There are *many* type of service animals out there (horses, monkeys, dogs, cats, ferrets, etc), and *many* type of disabilities.

1. Not all cats are trainable - it needs to be a special breed (Bengal, Savannah, etc)
2. As a service animal, they need to be trained to perform their assistance tasks in the proper situation, as well as some other basic things (walk on a leash, learn some verbal commands, etc.) Basically, they have to go through obedience training.
3. A by-product of being this breed of cat is that they don't have fur (but hair), and thus have no dander, therefore are hypoallergenic. Anyone who is allergic to them is is allergic to something other than animal dander, and I haven't seen that.

As much as my DH wanted a dog, we just don't have the space for one, nor do our living arrangements allow us to have one. A cat we can take care of, since it takes care of itself. So, we have a cat.

http://www.invisibledisabilities.org/serviceanimals.htm

[heathriel]

I guess I am just incredulous, that posters would get their knickers in a twist over so many things and yet no one has questioned this!!!!! I agree the poster on the roll call board seems very intelligent and helpful HOWEVER, many, many people are severely allergic to cats and I do not think would appreciate dining with one.

Yeah - DH and I are kind of upset that HAL is making us bring him *everywhere* on the ship with us. We're kind of hoping that we can work something out so we can avoid bringing him into the MDR. It's really not fair to the other guests, and I'm certain the Maitre'D doesn't want him in the dining room if he can avoid it.

I mean, the lounge, the pool, the casino, even the Lido, whatever, but please let us keep him out of the MDR. He's a trained animal. He's not going to freak out if we leave him alone in our cabin for 20 minutes to go eat.

DH says that if it comes to it, we'll just eat dinner in the room (which he doesn't have a problem with, since he can order 5 entrees if he feels like and no one will say a word) and then wander out for pictures, etc, the show, etc.

Oh other cruise lines, you can leave them crated (which the cat won't like either) if you have to leave them alone. Or you can find someone to babysit them.

But anyway, that's a rant that has nothing to do with this thread. Point is - he's a valid service animal, not a pet, and he's trained, and wherever we go with him he does much for service animal awareness and Bengal relations. People always want to pet him, and he generally obliges.

[SandyMc]

The owner of this cat has stated in another post that it is a "wake" service animal. I assume that means it watches her sleep and knows when she gets in trouble. It sounds wonderful to me! Our cat is certainly more interested in us when we are sleeping than our dogs and I am sure this particular cat is very well trained as to what to alert to.

I have no doubt traveling with a cat will be as easy or easier than traveling with a dog - so why should this be a big deal??

[Cruiz'nBaers]

I'm curious. Just what service does this animal provide?

[IRL_Joanie]

Yeah - DH and I are kind of upset that HAL is making us bring him *everywhere* on the ship with us. We're kind of hoping that we can work something out so we can avoid bringing him into the MDR. It's really not fair to the other guests, and I'm certain the Maitre'D doesn't want him in the dining room if he can avoid it.

I mean, the lounge, the pool, the casino, even the Lido, whatever, but please let us keep him out of the MDR. He's a trained animal. He's not going to freak out if we leave him alone in our cabin for 20 minutes to go eat.

DH says that if it comes to it, we'll just eat dinner in the room (which he doesn't have a problem with, since he can order 5 entrees if he feels like and no one will say a word) and then wander out for pictures, etc, the show, etc.

Oh other cruise lines, you can leave them crated (which the cat won't like either) if you have to leave them alone. Or you can find someone to babysit them.

But anyway, that's a rant that has nothing to do with this thread. Point is - he's a valid service animal, not a pet, and he's trained, and wherever we go with him he does much for service animal awareness and Bengal relations. People always want to pet him, and he generally obliges.


heathriel, if you are on the Westerdam 7-21 February, I WILL Cat sit him for you while you eat in the MDR!! And my hubby is allergic to animals, cats, dogs, horses, etc. BUT he is willing to suffer if it means you and your hubby can enjoy your cruise to the fullest!!

Joanie

[IRL_Joanie]

I'm curious. Just what service does this animal provide?

If I read correctly, the Cat alerts to Sleep Apnea, a deadly disorder that causes a person to literally die as they sleep due to the person stopping breathing for periods of time as they sleep. A Sleep Apnea service animal alerts to the length of time a person stops breathing as the human sleeps.

Sleep apnea is a common disorder in which you have one or more pauses in breathing or shallow breaths while you sleep.

Breathing pauses can last from a few seconds to minutes. They often occur 5 to 30 times or more an hour. Typically, normal breathing then starts again, sometimes with a loud snort or choking sound.

Joanie

[Parrot57]

To the poster you said the service cat alerts to sleep apnea. Yes, sleep apnea is serious but a lot of people have it, myself and DH included. We use a cpap mask which is easily brought and used anywhere. Most machines even have an alarm which will alert if the power fails or pressure drops.

[coffeeclutch1]

I truly love cats, and I am very interested in the logistics of your taking your cat on board. Please keep us updated on how it goes, and passenger reaction. Pictures would be good. Bon Voyage have a good trip.

[Cruising-along]

To the poster you said the service cat alerts to sleep apnea. Yes, sleep apnea is serious but a lot of people have it, myself and DH included. We use a cpap mask which is easily brought and used anywhere. Most machines even have an alarm which will alert if the power fails or pressure drops.

My thoughts too....DH uses a cpap machine at home and when we travel. Just thinking this would be easier than bringing a large cat. I must add that I'm a cat lover to the nth degree and if I saw your service cat on a cruise I'd be the first to run over and ask to pet him/her! :)

[rangeley]

Heather, We too are curious of what the cat does for you. Did I read correctly that the cat "wakes you up"? We have a service dog that will be going on his first cruise and we also have to take him everywhere. You are not allowed to leave any animal in the room alone.

[whogo]

http://www.invisibledisabilities.org/serviceanimals.htmThis link could be used by unscrupulous pet lovers as a how to guide for taking your pet anywhere. Just say that little Fluffy is a service animal! A vest saying so would help, but is not required. Quote a few passages from the Americans with Disabilities Act. Watch restaurant owners, store owners, and taxi cab drivers wilt at the thought of fines and lawsuits if they try to restrict little Fluffy.

Now is the time to start lobbying to get the cost of unlicensed service animals covered by new health care legislation. Kitty litter, cat food, and veterinary visits should be paid for by a government that cares about your emotional well being.

[fann1sh]

I have a friend who runs a kennel. She's taught me service animal protocols. I'm glad Heathriel's Bengal responds well to attention, but many people don't understand a service animal - at least, while they are working - isn't a pet.

I also know CPAP machines aren't for everyone, for a variety of reasons.

[debsjc]

Heathriel

I think your cat sounds amazing, it's fantastic to hear about animals providing such valuable help. I wish I was on your cruise so we could meet him. Would love to see a photo of him if you didn't mind posting one. :)

[heathriel]

It's not sleep apnea, but it's along those lines. A CPAP would not do me any good.

And in general, day to day life, he does not need to accompany me everywhere. Therefore, I don't run into the issue of bringing him into taxis, restaurants, stores, etc. It's just a problem on HAL, but it's cool, we'll roll with it. He's leash trained, well-behaved and good with people. And when he's working, he does not let anyone touch him. He'll give a little "sputter" noise (it's not a growl, just a... my husband filmed it. It's a "sputter".) However, I'm in bed at that time, so no one else he comes in contact with has to worry about hearing his sputter (except my husband, or visiting members of family.)

There are people who have mental disorders who require ESAs, prescribed by their physicians, and those are the ones you are more likely to run into in daily life. There are cats that are being trained to "be pet" by people with OCD (this sounds very strange, but just ask a cat owner if *their* cat will sit there and let you pet them FOREVER - these cats do), and birds being trained to accept treats (for PTSD, OCD), as a type of behavior modification treatment.

So, the guy who is sitting next to you on the bus, with a cockatoo on his shoulder, who keeps feeding him a treat every 15 seconds, exactly, that bird may be the only way he's able to get out of bed in the morning.

Should the government be paying for service animals? I don't think they are right now. I mean, there are *some* tax credits, very little, for specific things, but there's no health plan that pays for them right now, so why on earth would a government healthcare plan would pay for them? Although, it may be less expensive to procure, train and maintain dogs than to buy a CPAP. A *Savannah cat* can cost $3000 (usually more), and then you need to train them, so you're pretty much a wash there. (Note: I do not have a Savannah cat, but you're *very* limited in cat breeds if you want to train one.)

It's relatively obvious when you meet one if it is someone trying to pass off a housepet or if it is a real, intelligent, trained animal. Even if you have prejudices and misconceptions about the disease in question that the animal is there for, the animals are in a class by themselves.

[heathriel]

You are not allowed to leave any animal in the room alone.

Yeah, I know - we're not planning on it. We just think it's a silly requirement.

I mean, I understand when we're at ports, you have to take them with you because - well - what if you don't make it back to the ship?

But it will make a lot of people upset to see him in the dining room - staff included - I'm sure. If he doesn't need to be there, why force him?

[momofmeg]

I think I should have said leopard, not tiger. Maybe the poster will share more with you if you ask on the roll call where you saw the post. If people get their "knickers in a twist" about a service animal, they probably just need a little more education about it...

Are you coming on the cruise to the Panama Canal? We have a very welcoming group with lots of great info...

:D:D:D

I agree. I know my friend's daughter has a service dog, a beautiful golden retriever-this dog is trained to go to the girl's parents to alert them, or to catch their attention if she starts choking-she has a rare condition where she can choke easily-even in her sleep-the poor girl had cancer at the back of her throat when she was only 9 years old,(nothing to do with smoking obviously, at that age) and the surgery she had to remove the cancer left her with this condition. The parents have been trained on what to do for her. She has almost died MANY times. That dog has saved her more than once by alerting them.

My thinking is, if a person has allergies to animal dander, then perhaps they should be kind and ask to be moved to another part of the dinning room.

[serendipity1499]

Have to admit, I thought Toad was pulling our leg again...Sorry E...But have just read the WEB site discussing the various Service animals..Very interesting..

Yeah - DH and I are kind of upset that HAL is making us bring him *everywhere* on the ship with us. We're kind of hoping that we can work something out so we can avoid bringing him into the MDR. It's really not fair to the other guests, and I'm certain the Maitre'D doesn't want him in the dining room if he can avoid it.

I mean, the lounge, the pool, the casino, even the Lido, whatever, but please let us keep him out of the MDR. He's a trained animal. He's not going to freak out if we leave him alone in our cabin for 20 minutes to go eat.

DH says that if it comes to it, we'll just eat dinner in the room (which he doesn't have a problem with, since he can order 5 entrees if he feels like and no one will say a word) and then wander out for pictures, etc, the show, etc.

Oh other cruise lines, you can leave them crated (which the cat won't like either) if you have to leave them alone. Or you can find someone to babysit them.

But anyway, that's a rant that has nothing to do with this thread. Point is - he's a valid service animal, not a pet, and he's trained, and wherever we go with him he does much for service animal awareness and Bengal relations. People always want to pet him, and he generally obliges.

Heatherel, I'm not questioning the fact that your cat is a Service Animal, however I'm curious about Hal's rule about your cat being with you at all times..

What will you do with your cat if a Port refuses to allow you entry with your animal..It's my understanding that the ADA Act only applies to the United States...Understand most Cruise Lines also must follow it but wonder if all other Countries do..

If HAL states you are not permitted to leave him in your cabin are you required to get a Baby Sitter for him in ports which might refuse him entry in order to take your sightseeing trips?

I'm curious. Just what service does this animal provide?

Actually according to the ADA, a U.S. business is not permitted to question what service the animal performs, if the person has certified that it is a service animal.. A Business can't even ask for proof according to the ADA..

Betty

[wander]

Service animals can provide wonderful, lifesaving purposes for many types of diseases and disorders. Then there are the folks who just don't want to leave Fluffy or Fido at home and take advantage of the regulations that preclude asking for documentation that the animal is a certified service animal. This I think is very unfair to people with legitimate Service Animals.

I personally do wish there were some sort of uniform certification process to document both animal training and legitimacy as a service animal. There would be NO need to say what the person's reasons are for needing the service animal nor any specifics about what the animal is trained to do. It would simply document that the animal is a trained Service Animal.

Through my career I have been around many sorts of Service Animals, almost all dogs, and without exception they have been good around people - meaning no snarling, growling, barking, biting. Others are also not allowed to pet them while they are on duty.

Now through a volunteer activity I participate in, I work at events with hundreds of people milling around, looking at displays, etc. Some people enter with an alleged Service Animal that snarls, snaps, barks. Without some documentation requirements, what can one do? So far nothing serious has occurred, but what if someone were bit? I hope we never have to find out.

[7toEleven]

Yeah - DH and I are kind of upset that HAL is making us bring him *everywhere* on the ship with us. We're kind of hoping that we can work something out so we can avoid bringing him into the MDR. It's really not fair to the other guests, and I'm certain the Maitre'D doesn't want him in the dining room if he can avoid it.

I mean, the lounge, the pool, the casino, even the Lido, whatever, but please let us keep him out of the MDR. He's a trained animal. He's not going to freak out if we leave him alone in our cabin for 20 minutes to go eat.

DH says that if it comes to it, we'll just eat dinner in the room (which he doesn't have a problem with, since he can order 5 entrees if he feels like and no one will say a word) and then wander out for pictures, etc, the show, etc.

Oh other cruise lines, you can leave them crated (which the cat won't like either) if you have to leave them alone. Or you can find someone to babysit them.

But anyway, that's a rant that has nothing to do with this thread. Point is - he's a valid service animal, not a pet, and he's trained, and wherever we go with him he does much for service animal awareness and Bengal relations. People always want to pet him, and he generally obliges.


I would be really concerned about leaving any service animal uncrated when I wasn't in the room. Think of when the steward goes in, they leave the door open, will they forget to close the door when they are in the room, will they forget to only service when you are there? I commend you on thinking of others who may have allergies!! Some people, of which are very serious issues. You may be able to work this out,l you may have to eat in your room. But, you are awesome for your pre-thinking of this issues. I wish you a wonderful cruise!!!

[SarasMommy]

We use a cpap mask which is easily brought and used anywhere.

My mother has sleep apnea. Using a cpap mask unfortunately would not work for her; it brings her bad memories from during WWII when they practised drills in her classroom where they had to crouch under their desks during air raid sirens and put on masks. She cannot stand anything over her face when she sleeps, and this became painfully apparent following her hip surgery in December after which DH and I spent the entire night trying to keep her oxygen mask on her face while she was thrashing around trying to remove it. You would be amazed the strength a 78-year-old frail widow has under the influence of anesthesia!

[heathriel]

HAL guidelines are that it's up to the owner to make sure our animal is cleared with each port, and if not, we can't leave him unattended.

We don't live in the US, and we're aware of port requirements for our animal. He's got all the required documentation, shots, etc.

The key to everything is he cannot be left unattended at any time during our time on the ship.

While he doesn't like being crated, if they consider that "attended", that might be an answer to the MDR dilemma. We will *not* leave the ship without him. We have no problem being everywhere *else* on the ship with him, but we just don't think people would appreciate a cat under the table while they're eating.

[serendipity1499]

HAL guidelines are that it's up to the owner to make sure our animal is cleared with each port, and if not, we can't leave him unattended.

We don't live in the US, and we're aware of port requirements for our animal. He's got all the required documentation, shots, etc.

The key to everything is he cannot be left unattended at any time during our time on the ship.

While he doesn't like being crated, if they consider that "attended", that might be an answer to the MDR dilemma. We will *not* leave the ship without him. We have no problem being everywhere *else* on the ship with him, but we just don't think people would appreciate a cat under the table while they're eating.

Understand...Most cats hate being crated, but wonder if giving him a sedative in the a.m. would calm him down enough to be comfortable in a crate, while you are out having your meals..Maybe your Vet could give you something just to calm him without hurting him, so that he is alert, when you need him for help..

It would never bother me to have a cat under the table, I had three before I married DH, but can't have any now due to his allergies.. If I had to crate them just to go to the vet, they would howl as if they were being killed..

When DH visits friends, with two cats, we must be sure that he takes an anti-histamine an hour before, or his throat will close up & his eyes itch & tear...As it is he can't stay in their house very long..So, do understand your concern about those who would be uncomfortable with him under the table..

Hope you find a solution..

Betty

[heathriel]

Maybe you should try a Bengal - they're hypo-allergenic, and superr sweet and intelligent, and unfortunately because they are a LOT of work during their first year, a lot of them end up in shelters.

But they are really lovely cats.

When people get them as a kitten though, they have to get past the:

2-8 Weeks: NOXIOUS excretions (eye watering variety)
4-20 Weeks: Ankle Biting (not teething)
5-10 Weeks: Pouncing at inappropriate times
2-20 Weeks: Loud noises every time they eat (or excrete) (although, when it stops, you kind of miss this one)

Once they lose the baby teeth, they don't bite as hard, and they don't bite your tender ankles anymore - you can get them to attack a toy or something during scheduled playtimes. And once they learn how to jump, the pouncing isn't as hard. Once they're not a baby anymore, their odor isn't as strong (it's still bad, but disperses quickly), and the noises go away entirely.

But they learn things, VERY quickly. You have to be very careful what you say and do around them. If you don't want them to go into a certain room, don't let them see how to open that door. And the training treat we use for ours is dried Shrimp (curiously enough, dog training treats don't work for cats ;) ), but I purposely always call it "Srimp" so he won't learn the word "Shrimp". His ears prick up when I say "Srimp", but I can cook all the "Shrimp" I want in peace. DH says I've given the cat a speech impediment.

So, anyway, if you want a dander-free, fiercely loyal, trainable, very dog-like cat, check your local shelter or animal rescue for a Bengal. :) (A LOT of the ones in shelters are purebred.)

[Parrot57]

Not all cpap's are masks. A lot of them are simply plugs that rest just outside or inside the nose with one tube hanging down in front of the chest. Nothing touches the face and no obstruction of vision.

[esther e]

This is the most fascinating thread I've read in a long time. I first thought it was a tongue-in-cheek and quickly realized it wasn't. I had no idea there were service cats -- and I'm am a cat lover!! This is amazing. You people on CC never cease to teach me something new! Thank you.:)

[serendipity1499]

Maybe you should try a Bengal - they're hypo-allergenic, and superr sweet and intelligent, and unfortunately because they are a LOT of work during their first year, a lot of them end up in shelters.

But they are really lovely cats.

When people get them as a kitten though, they have to get past the:

2-8 Weeks: NOXIOUS excretions (eye watering variety)
4-20 Weeks: Ankle Biting (not teething)
5-10 Weeks: Pouncing at inappropriate times
2-20 Weeks: Loud noises every time they eat (or excrete) (although, when it stops, you kind of miss this one)

Once they lose the baby teeth, they don't bite as hard, and they don't bite your tender ankles anymore - you can get them to attack a toy or something during scheduled playtimes. And once they learn how to jump, the pouncing isn't as hard. Once they're not a baby anymore, their odor isn't as strong (it's still bad, but disperses quickly), and the noises go away entirely.

But they learn things, VERY quickly. You have to be very careful what you say and do around them. If you don't want them to go into a certain room, don't let them see how to open that door. And the training treat we use for ours is dried Shrimp (curiously enough, dog training treats don't work for cats ;) ), but I purposely always call it "Srimp" so he won't learn the word "Shrimp". His ears prick up when I say "Srimp", but I can cook all the "Shrimp" I want in peace. DH says I've given the cat a speech impediment.

So, anyway, if you want a dander-free, fiercely loyal, trainable, very dog-like cat, check your local shelter or animal rescue for a Bengal. :) (A LOT of the ones in shelters are purebred.)

Thanks, but we have a wonderful little wire=haired dachshund "Brandy", which is purr=fect for us plus a large (plate sized) 4 yr old red=eared slider turtle "Yurtle" & honestly don't need any more animals right now..LOL

Would love to see a picture of your cat though..

Enjoy your cruise..Betty

[ginger and professor]

my neighbor has a wonderful shetland pony and it seems to enjoy pulling a small cart with the children. If we added a vest might this be considered an equine service partner??? Not sure of HAL horse policies or if hay is available.

[VermeulT]

This is the most fascinating thread I've read in a long time. I first thought it was a tongue-in-cheek and quickly realized it wasn't. I had no idea there were service cats -- and I'm am a cat lover!! This is amazing. You people on CC never cease to teach me something new! Thank you.:)
Ditto. Interesting!

[jcrandle]

Have to admit, I thought Toad was pulling our leg again...Sorry E...But have just read the WEB site discussing the various Service animals..Very interesting..

Betty
What, Toad pulling our leg? Surely you jest!:D

[Toad]

What, Toad pulling our leg? Surely you jest!:D

Not "pulling your leg" this time. It all seems to be true. Go figure.

[fann1sh]

Another "invisible disability" is epilepsy.

An amazing variety of species - dogs, cats, even snakes - are able to help predict seizures. For many, this "service" is an innate ability, although animals are also trained to assist (like one dog who lies on top of his master during seizures, and otherwise makes sure no harm comes to him).

Not all epilepsy seizures are the "thrashing" (grand mal) variety. More common are "absences" (petit mal) which are more like a faint. Sadly, this medical condition is still stigmatized and feared.

The ability of animals to predict an attack makes it possible for people not controlled by meds to live a much more normal life.

I wish epilepsy service animals had been around in the early 90's. It might have saved the life of a friend, who suffocated in his own bed.

[rbyrd2531]

Our Bengal cat is two years old, and I purchased her for Steve several months after he lost his elderly cat at the age of 15.

I wanted a breed that was intelligent and could hold mer own against my huskies....

Wow does she fit the description!

Extremely intelligent, I can see why they will make great service animals. She loves the water and gets in the shower with you. She taught herself to retrieve her toys and will play that game as long as you put up with it.
And she loves wrestling with the Huskies and they love her.

[Milaandra]

It's a shame that HAL can't contact your tablemates in advance to check. Personally, I would have no problem with a cat under the table...with four of my own, I'm used to it. (Cats ON the table during meals get a stern talking to.) In fact, I would volunteer to sit at the table with the cat under it.

For non-cat-friendly excursions, have you considered a short boarding at a local vet or groomers? Your Bengal could get a shampoo and a pedicure while you ride the horses.

[heathriel]

Ireally do appreciate all the comments this has raised. While we do get a lot of attention whenever we're in public with him (which is generally only when we're traveling, because he has no need to accompany me otherwise), not once has he gotten the "How dare you bring a cat here!" kind of reaction they get from people on airplanes, etc. I guess seeing one on a leash kind of throws you off, and Bengals just look very "other."

The first question we generally get is "Is that a Lion?!" to which we respond "No, he's a little Leopard." The next question we get is "Will he eat me if I pet him?" And, based on his reaction to that person, we say either "Go ahead!" or "Better not." ;)

(We live in Mexico, so this generally takes place in Spanish, and "Leopardito" is the closest thing to "Bengal".)

[serendipity1499]

Our Bengal cat is two years old, and I purchased her for Steve several months after he lost his elderly cat at the age of 15.

I wanted a breed that was intelligent and could hold mer own against my huskies....

Wow does she fit the description!

Extremely intelligent, I can see why they will make great service animals. She loves the water and gets in the shower with you. She taught herself to retrieve her toys and will play that game as long as you put up with it.
And she loves wrestling with the Huskies and they love her.

What a pretty cat! I've looked at some of the Bengal WEB sites but can't seem to figure out their size..

Are Bengal's about the size of a domestic short hair tabby or are they larger like an Ocelot?

One of my cats was a Siamese & was very vocal..Are the Bengal's vocal?

As others have said, I'm intrigued by this thread..

Thanks Toad for posting it! And thanks Heatheriel for answering our questions..

Cheers..:)Betty

[heathriel]

Bengals can vary greatly in size. Some are no larger than a regular housecat, and others are HUGE.

They are very muscular.

Mine's 18 pounds, all muscle, and his "play" friend is a medium sized poodle (who is around the same size as him.)

They're also very vocal, with a rather intricate language of chirps, chatters, stutters, mewps, meows, etc. They're short and higher pitched, not the long, low pitched "yowls" of the Siamese.

You know you have a Bengal when you rhetorically ask your cat something, and it clearly answers "Nooooooooooooooo!!!!!!" and then you say "Yessssssssss!!" before you realize that you actually answered a cat.

[jcrandle]

Not "pulling your leg" this time. It all seems to be true. Go figure.
Yep, my daughter's favorite quote is "Truth is stranger than fiction, because fiction has to be believable!"

[rbyrd2531]

What a pretty cat! I've looked at some of the Bengal WEB sites but can't seem to figure out their size..

Are Bengal's about the size of a domestic short hair tabby or are they larger like an Ocelot?

One of my cats was a Siamese & was very vocal..Are the Bengal's vocal?

As others have said, I'm intrigued by this thread..

Thanks Toad for posting it! And thanks Heatheriel for answering our questions..

Cheers..:)Betty

I agree with heathriel...the size varies.. And that they are very vocal cats. The cat she replaced was a Siamese which was also vocal. But the Bengal noises are more unique and I dare say less obnoxious than the other cat was? Our female is small (I figure at two years she has reached full growth?)
, but even at the breeders facility, I saw none that were really larger than a large domestic breed. They are very long and sleek with a very soft coat.

She does recognize some words...and If I call in dinner to be delivered, she somehow knows the difference between that and speaking to a friend on the phone. She will immediately go wait by the front door until the delivery is here.

[wilsonqbc]

I have a Eygptian Mau, which chats chatters chips, all the time.
when it wants somthing, Understands quiet a bit of human vocabulary.
very dog like, follows, comes when called, retreives toys kind of amazes me sometimes. I would love a large Bengal or savannah, somewhere in the future I guess. they are truly beautifull with their rosette spots

[momatibm]

not to hijack the thread -- but I had two 'garage cats', both of them responded to us -- when the first one died the second one became the alpha cat. Most cats if socialized early will respond to direction -- and be very well behaved.

I am so glad to hear that there are cats that are recognized as 'service animals'

Glad to hear that.

[jbhcw]

What a great and informative thread:) Have always had cats....and just recently a Calico kitty was literally dropped off at our house...I think we must have a sign out front....cat friendly house:eek:

My other two kitties, an older tabby and her daughter who is a long haired black cat are what I would call normal kitties....but this Calico is unlike any cat I have ever owned. She follows me around, loves the bathub, likes to bite and chew, makes funny sounds, has a huge bushy tail like a fox and will drag a toy around as big as she is....and watches TV...

We have so enjoyed having her but our house is getting cat heavy:) hoping and prayer we have no more drop offs!!

Love the picture of the Bengal...what an elegant looking cat.

[Toad]

I hope that Heathreil will come back and tell us how this all works!

[momatibm]

I hope that Heathreil will come back and tell us how this all works!


I hope everything works out for her

[heathriel]

Will do!

I have a very supportive Roll Call, and have advance word that the ship is looking forward to having him aboard (although, I'm sure that's what they say to all their furry friends.)

[jetwet1]

Just to hijack the thread again, my DW and I are looking at "retiring" on a cruise ship for a while in a few years, as I was bored one day I did a quick call around to see which lines would be most open to bringing a cat or dog along for the ride.

Most were pretty much unless it's a service animal we want nothing to do with it, which when you face it is pretty understandable.

One cruise line, I won't name names, but we will call them HAL as it's an easy name was less stand offish about it http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon14.gif though the person I spoke to did say cats are easier than dogs on a ship...I guess she has no idea what a Savannah is then :D

But this is as I said a few years off yet, but I really have to get a picture of the room steward when he/she first goes face to face with a Savannah :p

[heathriel]

Cunard is the only "US" cruise line I'm aware of that allows *pets* - they have a 12 kennels on every ship, and an animal attendant.

You need to book these kennels pretty far in advance, as you can imagine, and your animal doesn't get to stay in your cabin with you, but it is an option.

[fishbabe]

Another "invisible disability" is epilepsy.

An amazing variety of species - dogs, cats, even snakes - are able to help predict seizures. ....

Snakes?? Not in the dining room please. :eek: And even with the little green vest (custom-made, I assume), I'd prefer to know this type of service animal is not in the stateroom next door. Love to see pics of the Bengal cat, however.

Interesting link posted on page 1, especially as to the distinction between a "therapy animal" (no ADA protection in "public accommodations") vs. a "service animal" (ADA protection in the U.S. re. "public accommodations"). I assume the service cat owner's cruise begins, ends or visits a U.S. port, triggering ADA in that port?

[heathriel]

You are correct. Here's a link to the addendum covering Cruise Ships under the ADA.

http://www.advocacyinc.org/AC20.cfm

[serendipity1499]

Since we have many Animal lovers on this board, thought some of you might be interested in an article on MSNBC..It discusses the longevity of our pets & service animals with tips for keeping them with us longer..

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33076736/ns/health-pet_health/ (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/33076736/ns/health-pet_health/)

Betty

[CowPrincess]

Begin off-topic thread drift:

Fascinating reading, serenity1499. I looked after a dog who was at least 19, but believed to be 21 or 22 (she came from a shelter as an adult stray), and several cats 19, 20, up to 22 years of age.

End thread drift :)

[JimVrhovac]

Have read the majority of the posts on this subject but no real definition of what TYPE OF SERVICE does this animal do for the patient or owner or the person it is serving.

A seing eye dog helps a person navigate.

A service monkey can help a person but getting items out of a cubbard

There are trained cats and dogs that go into nursing homes to make the residents feel better but THESE ARE NOT SERVICE ANIMALS.

Could you please define the services that this animal provides to you

Please

Jim, Without Ruth

[RuthC]

Could you please define the services that this animal provides to you
I thought the cat's owner posted that the cat alerts when the owner stops breathing while asleep. I believe it was said that the condition was not apnea, or that a CPAP would do no good.

[JimVrhovac]

You know me as I have been on these boards a long time.

I have cats of my own and love them dearly but do not drag them everywhere with me.

Not to sound hard but that sounds like a psychological problem with the people and their inability to leave the cat at home where it belongs.

I am a registered nurse and have been doing homecare for over 25 years and have never heard of anything like this.

I hope HAL requires detailed documentation before they allow them to bring their animals onto the ship...

I may be wrong, and will be the first to admit it if I am, but I do not think I am....

JUST MY OPINION.....

Jim (without Ruth)

[serendipity1499]

Have read the majority of the posts on this subject but no real definition of what TYPE OF SERVICE does this animal do for the patient or owner or the person it is serving.

A seing eye dog helps a person navigate.

A service monkey can help a person but getting items out of a cubbard

There are trained cats and dogs that go into nursing homes to make the residents feel better but THESE ARE NOT SERVICE ANIMALS.

Could you please define the services that this animal provides to you

Please

Jim, Without Ruth

I thought the cat's owner posted that the cat alerts when the owner stops breathing while asleep. I believe it was said that the condition was not apnea, or that a CPAP would do no good.

Ruth is correct..Heatheriel stated that her Bengal is trained to wake her up if she stops breathing...You've missed her posts within this thread.. Therefore according to the ADA he is a Service Animal & Heatheriel is taking him on a HAL cruise..she also posted a WEB site which explains the ADA regulation re service animals for Cruise Ships..

http://www.advocacyinc.org/AC20.cfm (http://www.advocacyinc.org/AC20.cfm)

I have a Therapy Dog, & am insured with Therapy Dogs Inc. We visit patients in our hospital & also work in the reading program at a local school..

You are correct, I can't take my Dog on a Cruise, as she is not a Service Animal..

However, we have three Therapy Dogs, which are fully trained to be Service Animals in our program... Their Handlers, ( or Masters, for want of a better word) are certified Puppy Raisers for Southeastern Guide Dogs..They have taken their dogs on a HAL cruise..Their animals training is much more intense...

By the way, according to the ADA it is illegal for any establishment to ask for detailed or written documentation on a Service Animal..I don't believe that HAL can ask for any documentation either..

Betty

[serendipity1499]

This Govt. WEB site has several questions & answers re service animals..

http://www.ada.gov/qasrvc.htm

3. Q: How can I tell if an animal is really a service animal and not just a pet?

A: Some, but not all, service animals wear special collars and harnesses. Some, but not all, are licensed or certified and have identification papers. If you are not certain that an animal is a service animal, you may ask the person who has the animal if it is a service animal required because of a disability. However, an individual who is going to a restaurant or theater is not likely to be carrying documentation of his or her medical condition or disability. Therefore, such documentation generally may not be required as a condition for providing service to an individual accompanied by a service animal. Although a number of states have programs to certify service animals, you may not insist on proof of state certification before permitting the service animal to accompany the person with a disability.

4. Q: What must I do when an individual with a service animal comes to my business?

A: The service animal must be permitted to accompany the individual with a disability to all areas of the facility where customers are normally allowed to go. An individual with a service animal may not be segregated from other customers.

[MISSV]

Hi Very interesting ..could you please indicate when you will be sailing on Holland america and the ship you will be on with this Special Cat ???? thank you ...

[heathriel]

Actually, the process to bring a service animal aboard a HAL ship is fairly complex. There's been much conversation, it's required many forms, and they do need me to provide a higher amount of documentation than I do for, say, an airline.

However, I have it all, because he's a Service Animal. He is not an emotional support animal, which HAL does not allow aboard, although, those animals *are* allowed under the ADA as well, but *comfort* animals (ones that go to rest homes, hospitals) are not.

Basically, if you have an ADA covered mental disorder where part of your treatment is to have your animal with you all the time (like the Parrot with the OCD I mentioned earlier in this thread), you can't sail HAL. That's ok though, you can sail Cunard and Carnival!

But, with the Parrot, you can't leave the ship, because you can't import a bird into foreign countries, but, hey, at least it got you out of the house!

I rememeber standing in line at Disney World next to a stroller once, and in the stroller was a Capuchin. The owner had epilepsy, and the monkey was trained to do something(s), I can't remember what. But it was just so weird looking into a baby carried and seeing a monkey in a dress. Although, not so weird, since it was Disney World.

[oldengine]

For cat lovers, this is the ultimate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXxbsOoFr4

[heathriel]

Also, while I'm happy to discuss the merits of service animals, their training, the laws, and even how mine has been trained, I'm sure people can understand that I don't wish to discuss my own disability in an anonymous public forum. I have discussed it in my roll call, and I will talk about it to people I meet in person (if they seem to be sincere in their interest), but there are laws in place to protect privacy of medical history.

A registered nurse should be aware of HIPAA, at the very least. Although, some of the ones I've worked with were too busy gossiping about their patients to care.

[serendipity1499]

Heatheriel...I apologize if I've given out the wrong info on the ADA regulations..I had no idea that HAL would require a great deal of documentation as here in the U.S. no business, or condo association etc. is permitted to ask for documentation other than to inquire if it's a service animal & is it needed for a disability..

So many people do not fully understand the ADA regulations..Only reason I know a little about them is that we have three Service Dogs who also work as Pet Therapy dogs..I've heard about monkey's but never realized that Cat's could also be trained Service Animals...This thread has been a learning experience for me too....

Hope you were able to work out, not taking Morgan with you, when you are dining..There would be no problem having him under our table if you decide to change your cruise..LOL

Would have loved to meet you & Morgan..We're booked on the "Statendam" from Fort Lauderdale to San Diego thru the Canal on Nov. 13..

Wishing you calm seas & hope you, your DH & Morgan have a wonderful cruise..

Cheers...:)Betty

[Nakantia]

I recently had to do some research on service animals and found out that not only cats had entered that realm but so have pigs and miniature horses. Since proof of the necessity of a service animal is pretty vague, some people can abuse the rules. Take a peek at the pig story:

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m0UBT/is_11_15/ai_71627521/?tag=content;col1


As for Bengals, I've had mine since she was a kitten and had none of the problems listed. She is incredibly smart (makes my other cats look downright stupid), but I'd be terrified to take her on a cruise for fear that she would go overboard. Bengals do well on leashes but they can't be trained as a service dog can to "stay put" -- they have the same curiosity as any other cat, and they really like high places. I'd be afraid that the cat would escape and disappear.

My Circe:

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp321/StrawberryFieldsAZ/Home%20and%20Garden/IMG_01831-1.jpg

http://i424.photobucket.com/albums/pp321/StrawberryFieldsAZ/Home%20and%20Garden/IMG_00621-1.jpg

[Milaandra]

for cat lovers, this is the ultimate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pbxxbsoofr4


rofl!!! :d

[pipedreams62]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1Vx2s2G88b0

[Iowa-Cruiser]

I agree with heathriel...the size varies.. And that they are very vocal cats. The cat she replaced was a Siamese which was also vocal. But the Bengal noises are more unique and I dare say less obnoxious than the other cat was? Our female is small (I figure at two years she has reached full growth?)
, but even at the breeders facility, I saw none that were really larger than a large domestic breed. They are very long and sleek with a very soft coat.

She does recognize some words...and If I call in dinner to be delivered, she somehow knows the difference between that and speaking to a friend on the phone. She will immediately go wait by the front door until the delivery is here.

Not to hijack this thread - it is a very interesting discussion on serivce animals - but...
I had never heard of this breed before this thread, so I Googled. I thought these were some of the prettiest cats I have ever seen. I made the mistake of showing pics to my DW, she loved them and wanted to know how far we had to go to get one. If I had only said something like "California" that would have been the end of it. But no, being the honest man I am, I said I had noticed an ad by a breeder in the local paper. In about 30 sec her cell phone was thrust into my hand and she was demanding I call. Needless to say - less than 24 hours after that call - we are now the proud owners of a marbled Bengal (it is hard to tell right now, but he should be a silver - the breeder originally registered him as a brown but said he is showing more silver now), just over 3 months old. He (now known as Gandalf) is a very lovable and snuggly kitten, who likes to play "attack the toes" at 1 AM. Our kids adore him.
Here is Gandalf on the breeder's web site:
http://www.sumatrabengals.com/page/page/5919158.htm
Thank you to the Bengal owners here who told all of us about this very interesting breed.

[Mpowered]

I hope I won't be accused of highjacking a thread. :-) This thread reminds me of something that happened on the Zuiderdam last July. Hubby and I had just walked a mile on the promenade deck. We were about to re-enter the ship when we realized there was a commotion nearby. And then we see a youngish man walking two poodles! I can't remember the size of the dogs now, but I think one was a standard poodle and one was much smaller. They had apparently seen the hairdresser recently, and they were decked out (no pun intended) in bows and nail polish. It was so odd to see someone walking poodles on a ship! Sometimes I still wonder what those dogs were doing on the Zuiderdam. I know that the captain's wife was onboard, so I wonder if perhaps they were her dogs.

Joan

[heathriel]

That's great! These are very special cats.

And when Gandalf's mouth gets a little bigger, get him some of these, and he'll be your best friend forever (plus, he'll have something else to bite besides your toes) :)

http://www.petco.com/product/101378/CFA-Active-Cat-Sparkle-Balls-with-Rattle.aspx

[cusyl]

My mother has sleep apnea. Using a cpap mask unfortunately would not work for her; it brings her bad memories from during WWII when they practised drills in her classroom where they had to crouch under their desks during air raid sirens and put on masks. She cannot stand anything over her face when she sleeps, and this became painfully apparent following her hip surgery in December after which DH and I spent the entire night trying to keep her oxygen mask on her face while she was thrashing around trying to remove it. You would be amazed the strength a 78-year-old frail widow has under the influence of anesthesia!That must just be terrible for her. Please ask her to try the nose pillows, no mask on the face.

[kstmbjm]

It's natural to be curious, but I can not believe the gall of some of the people who have written in this thread. If you're curious about the issue of "cats as service animals" then use google.

It's so incredibly insensitive to discuss in an open forum whether or not someone should be allowed to bring their service animal onboard, whether or not the person "really needs" the animal, or to tell the original poster that her service animal is not needed in favor of a CPAP machine.

IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! I'm sure the poster worked with her doctor to find the best option for her. To the nurse who posted that the services animal probably wasn't really needed (really??? how much information do you have on which to base that decision???) your compassion is just overwhelming.

[chees]

For cat lovers, this is the ultimate!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pBXxbsOoFr4

This type of behavior generally results in the cat jumping the other cat and someone getting hurt. NOT for cat lovers!

Tina

[chees]

Not to hijack this thread - it is a very interesting discussion on serivce animals - but...
I had never heard of this breed before this thread, so I Googled. I thought these were some of the prettiest cats I have ever seen. I made the mistake of showing pics to my DW, she loved them and wanted to know how far we had to go to get one. If I had only said something like "California" that would have been the end of it. But no, being the honest man I am, I said I had noticed an ad by a breeder in the local paper. In about 30 sec her cell phone was thrust into my hand and she was demanding I call. Needless to say - less than 24 hours after that call - we are now the proud owners of a marbled Bengal (it is hard to tell right now, but he should be a silver - the breeder originally registered him as a brown but said he is showing more silver now), just over 3 months old. He (now known as Gandalf) is a very lovable and snuggly kitten, who likes to play "attack the toes" at 1 AM. Our kids adore him.
Here is Gandalf on the breeder's web site:
http://www.sumatrabengals.com/page/page/5919158.htm
Thank you to the Bengal owners here who told all of us about this very interesting breed.

Congrats on Gandalf! Of course, we already have 7 indoor cats and 5 outdoor cats (all rescues) so my husband would kill me if I got another cat!

Oh - and two rescue doves AND a dog from German Shepherd Rescue.

Tina

[snowcat]

This is a fascinating thread! (I had to move the cat off my arm to type my response). I for one would love to be at a dining table with fellow passenger and his/her service cat...I had no idea that cats could be service animals! Have a great cruise!

[pipedreams62]

http://bensbreakfastblog.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/catwoman-5307.jpg

[gooselace]

It's natural to be curious, but I can not believe the gall of some of the people who have written in this thread. If you're curious about the issue of "cats as service animals" then use google.

It's so incredibly insensitive to discuss in an open forum whether or not someone should be allowed to bring their service animal onboard, whether or not the person "really needs" the animal, or to tell the original poster that her service animal is not needed in favor of a CPAP machine.

IT'S NONE OF YOUR BUSINESS! I'm sure the poster worked with her doctor to find the best option for her. To the nurse who posted that the services animal probably wasn't really needed (really??? how much information do you have on which to base that decision???) your compassion is just overwhelming.

I understand the curiousity, but agree it's none of our business why the OP has a service cat. On one of my Westerdam cruises, we often saw a woman with a very small dog that she brought to the dining room in what looked like a doll carriage. She had a table near the door and parked the carriage, out of the way, but very near her. The carriage had a sign with the dog's name and picture and identifying it as a Service Dog. I know many people, myself included, must have wondered what kind of service such a small dog could provide, but I would never have asked.

Unknown to me, she had the connecting cabin next to ours and one morning when she heard us out on the veranda she called over hers to ask whether we had heard the dog barking in the night. We hadn't, but she went on to explain that the dog could tell when she was about the have an epileptic seizure, and would bark so she could take some form of meds or treatment that would avert the seizure.

This was in the Carribean, where some/most ports didn't allow service animals, and she was afraid to go without the dog, so she she stayed onboard. The condition must have been serious.

A blind friend has a Service Dog and because she was thinking of cruising with me sometime, I looked up HAL's requirements and provisions for service animals, such as special out of the way potty facilities. The dog is so well trained and so well behaved that sometimes I forget she is with us. In restaurants, at various social functions, and in my car she lies at the owner's feet and never makes a sound. At the pool, she sits by the side of the pool and is as watchful as the lifeguards. She has made a world of difference in this friend's ability to be active and independent.

[fcorey]

heathriel, I wish you the best of luck with your situation. There may be cases where someone abuses ADA and attempts to pass off the family pet as a service dog. My wife has someone that comes into her workplace with a dog which is very clearly not a trained service animal but they just ignore it. Its not worth possibility of violating ADA. However such cases are clearly the minority. My neighbor raises dogs for guiding eyes for the blind. They are amazing animals, we were at a festival over the weekend and at least 50 people approached him asking to pet the adorable lab puppy he is working with now and he patiently explains no they cannot, that he is working and training and that is why he is wearing his little vest. Bill is a very tall older gentleman and some may say he is intimidating in appearance, but to watch him explain about service animals to people, especially children, is amazing. At one point he had 5 kids sitting on the ground next to the dog asking all sorts of questions about guide dogs.

Most people are good about it. Some not so much... but thats their problem.

As for hypoallergenic , its really a matter of degrees. Personally I have had issues with all cats including bengals (my grandmother had one, and they are awesome pets so I can see how they would make a good service animal) , but I would never pitch a fit over someone having a service animal and would welcome them as tablemates.

If he's a service animal and you need him with you, bring him and have a wonderful time. I hope you can get the logistical issues worked out.