Amex Platinum

[gizmo]

Those that book cruises using the Amex Plat may run into a suprise when booking. Amex is planning to charge the TA a fee.

American Express Travel produced an uproar among its competitors last week when it revealed it will charge all independent travel agencies an annual fee of $1,000 to $7,000 for the right to book Platinum or Centurion card travel benefits, effective with the new year.


The nation's largest agency, which operates a service desk to take the Platinum/Centurion bookings, said it can no longer absorb the cost of staffing the desk and of developing and marketing the programs without sharing costs with the agencies that earn 100% of the commissions. American Express claimed it earns no commissions on Platinum/Centurion bookings unless a company location makes the sale; however, suppliers do help fund promotions for the travel products.

Some agents reacted to the news with promises to fight the move or bypass American Express products.

One agent said, "We will look more closely at what Visa and MasterCard have to offer for corporate travelers."

Steven Shulem, president of Strictly Vacations in Santa Barbara, Calif., said, "I'm a great salesperson, and I could move the business" to other products. He added that he is lobbying heads of high-end cruise lines to "re-evaluate their contracts" with American Express in light of the new fees, which for his agency would be the top number, $7,000.

ASTA President Kathy Sudeikis, who said the Society is hearing from many members now, urged agents to communicate directly with American Express to advise how the new policy will affect them.

Matthew Upchurch, Virtuoso's CEO, noted that his members produce Platinum/Centurion bookings of "several hundred million dollars annually." He said the group will investigate "more attractive options" with its preferreds. He declined to be specific about those alternatives but added that a "positive by-product" of the move might be "a demonstration of where Amex card bookings actually originate."

Jack Mannix, Ensemble president and CEO, said he was not sure why agents would pay the fees for the occasional booking. "There are a lot of these benefits replicated by us and others. This is not truly an exclusive benefit."

Both Upchurch and Ignacio Maza, executive vice president of the Signature Travel Network, gave voice to the sense of betrayal felt by some retailers who believe they are being penalized for the volume they deliver, after diligently promoting the premium cards.

Maza said his organization will "fight this tooth and nail," and it will take its case to top management at American Express. He contended the new fees cannot be related to the stated rationale because participating suppliers "pay substantial fees and millions in promotional dollars each year" to develop and market the cardmember benefits.

Given that the product line is a benefit meant to make American Express credit cards more attractive, Maza added the cost of the service desk is "minimal" measured against the discount fees the company earns on credit card volume handled there.

Shulem cited a potential of around $30,000 in discount fees the card division earned on the nearly $1 million in bookings his agency clocked in the 12 months ending June 30. So, he wondered, why is he being charged a premium when he brings those kind of fees to the company? "It should be the opposite," he said. "They should kiss my feet."

He said more than $900,000 of his Platinum/Centurion business was cruises, and for this he faxes booking information to American Express, receives a tracking number, then calls the cruise line to arrange the benefit to which the client is entitled. For this service, he said, $7,000 is "obscene."

On the other hand, he said, the hotel program requires an Amex staffer to call the property, and for this service, he said, American Express is a bit like a host agency, and it would be reasonable to assess a small fee for this service.

Shulem theorized the real purpose is to get more cardholders to book direct, which would deliver the commissions to American Express.

Former ASTA President Rich-ard Copland, president of Hillside Travel in New York, wrote to American Express Chairman Kenneth Chenault and asked him to rescind the policy, saying it is "detrimental to travel sellers" and poses downside risks for American Express.

The letter continued, "It is ill advised for American Express to risk the wrath of the distribution system before trying a positive approach. Why not devise a travel-sellers incentive program for getting your company new Platinum and Centurion cardholders?"

Another observer, who asked to remain anonymous, said the move "segments the market, pushing the small players away and makes the rep program look better."

One trade group executive reported his members are being asked to join the rep program as a way to avoid the fees. There is a 15% discount for signing up before Dec. 31 and a 10% discount for multilocation agencies.

The calculation is based only on bookings for the Cruise Privileges and Destinations Vacations products, but agents must still pay the fee to book into the Fine Hotels & Resorts.

The fees will not be required to book the air services component of the Platinum/Centurion benefits because the airlines don't pay commissions and Amex charges cardmembers a booking fee.

American Express said it will enhance services with more staff at the services desk, Saturday hours and support.

Amex representatives are exempt from the fees; independent agencies that participate in the Travel Agency Partnership program are not exempt.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks for the information.

We didn't see anything in the business sections of our newspapers about this.

[sail7seas]

I've been reading about it in Travel Trade for several weeks. My TA is well aware of it and we have had no changes in our dealings with her and how we book. It will be her/his (owner) problem, not ours.

[gizmo]

I've been reading about it in Travel Trade for several weeks. My TA is well aware of it and we have had no changes in our dealings with her and how we book. It will be her/his (owner) problem, not ours.In your case this may be true BUT others may be affected. It is possible a person's favorite TA may not want to pay the fee, so they would have to go elsewhere if they are looking for the on board credit.

The article does state that some in the travel agency are not happy with it.

Another thought. I doubt a TA is going to eat this cost. TA's could possible tack on addional fees to cover their fee to Amex. The person booking would proably not realize it. It could be listed as a processing fee.

[sail7seas]

A good consumer compares pricing and checks around. They would/should have some idea if any additional fees have been tacked on.

[gizmo]

Yes, many people do shop around but there are others that always use the same TA. It makes sense that TA's will not want to eat this cost.

[sail7seas]

It also makes sense a TA would not want to risk losing a very good customer who spends at a Platinum level for their cruises/travel each and every year.


Among the TA's choices are to eat the fee for their excellent clients; or charge off this fee onto the fares of clients they only see from time to time and are willing to risk losing; or will make a very bad mistake and try to pass it to excellent clients who will say Adios. I can book direct with AmEx Platinum Travel and don't need the local TA at all. My TA knows I would not pay it. I consider it among their costs of doing business and it will have to be added to all of their costs in configuring profit and loss for the company. The first time she tries to bill me for it(which she has not done) is the last time I book with her....and she knows it.

(She really, really, really does not want to lose our business....of that I am very sure. ) :)

[gizmo]

A TA could easily pass on the charge without one even knowing it. Most people are not paying Hal's published price. All the TA would have to do is adjust the discount. A person would never know.;)

[sail7seas]

Not so........


I always see the fax from HAL.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Sail, did you make your ship smaller? I thought it was larger before ... or is it just me;) ?

[sail7seas]

I didn't do anything to it except that when my dear friend (who used to post on this board) passed away, I switched over my signature to a very generous, thoughtful poster here who offered to host it for me. Dave used to host some gifs and that was one of them.


I don't know enough about these things to know if maybe it could be slightly different because of a new host????

[Charliesmom]

I can see an agent who gets a full commission being able to pay the fee, but think that the discounters will not be able to absorb this extra cost.

Roberta

[Roadwork]

This is an interesting piece of news. It appears Amex is after the travel booking business.

I can certainly understand how some travel agencies would be upset especially those that are generating a lot of business for clients using the Amex Platinum card. From a business stand point I don't see the travel agencies absorbing these fees. The big discounters will more than likely pass them on to the clients if they decide to handle the Amex Platinum Perks. From my view point, the brick and mortors are in even more trouble, since they do not have the volume as it is. They would have to evaluate how much business they actually do, and is it really worth it to pay the required fee. I do not believe they will want to absorb it unless it would give them some type of tax break. It might be the cost of doing business, but like everything else, it will be passed on to the consumer.

[Krazy Kruizers]

If our TA's company isn't willing to pick up this extra fee and wants to pass this fee onto us (even though we have been with her for many, many years), you can be certain we will go elsewhere.

[Roadwork]

If our TA's company isn't willing to pick up this extra fee and wants to pass this fee onto us (even though we have been with her for many, many years), you can be certain we will go elsewhere.

Maybe that is exactly what Amex wants you to do? If you book with Amex they get the commission.

Look what many big agencies have done in the past couple of years. Many of them have tacked on Processing Fees, Handling Charges or whatever they choose to call them. A couple more bucks isn't going to make much of a difference to the average client since people are willing to pay now.

[sail7seas]

Well, of course, that is what AmEx wants. Why would PlatinumTravel want 'members' booking with TA's other than their travel service?
That seems rather obvious, at least to me.

[Sierrachik]

Sail, did you make your ship smaller? I thought it was larger before ... or is it just me;) ?
When I came onto CC I believe Sail's ship was quite a bit larger (I think it filled the better part of the browser window), then it did get smaller if I'm not mistaken. I copied the picture that was in her signature at the time and it is the same size as then. I believe Sail's friend probably resized the image to make it download faster and also to make it easier for scrolling through the posts.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks, Sierra! I thought my eyes deceived me!;) I've noticed for awhile that it was smaller, but finally decided to ask. It's not like it's a big thing ... I was just curious. Of course, I knew it was the HAL logo.

Sail, afraid I'm not quite computer literate enough to understand what you said:D !!!, but thanks for trying!

[Roadwork]

Well, of course, that is what AmEx wants. Why would PlatinumTravel want 'members' booking with TA's other than their travel service?
That seems rather obvious, at least to me.Seas, I did not think anyone was debating what Amex wants. :confused: I think you misunderstood my post or did not read my earlier post.


It appears Amex is after the travel booking business. Gizmo's original post also contains information which indicates Amex is gearing up for more business.

American Express said it will enhance services with more staff at the services desk, Saturday hours and support.

[Sierrachik]

Thanks, Sierra! I thought my eyes deceived me!;) I've noticed for awhile that it was smaller, but finally decided to ask.
I know what you mean about your eyes. When I copied the picture to put on my server, I felt the same way :) I disabled signatures a while back so didn't pay much attention til I copied it :)

[bookworm0911]

Thanks for the article, gizmo. Very interesting stuff watching the big get bigger and the squeeze getting even tighter on the little guy. Thanks for educating us about this.

The local TA's profit margins are getting harder and harder to maintain. This is no different than any other increase in business costs to your local TA- they are going to have to pass it on to their customers and if the individual traveller wants local and personal service he is going to have to pay just a little extra for it. The unfair thing is that all customers of local brick and mortar TAs are probably going to be paying a small portion of the Amex Plat. fee, not just those that reap the benefit by using the card.

[gizmo]

Bookworm,
You are welcome.:)

The local TA's profit margins are getting harder and harder to maintain. This is no different than any other increase in business costs to your local TA- they are going to have to pass it on to their customers and if the individual traveller wants local and personal service he is going to have to pay just a little extra for it. The unfair thing is that all customers of local brick and mortar TAs are probably going to be paying a small portion of the Amex Plat. fee, not just those that reap the benefit by using the card.
You are probably right about it being passed on to all customers, not just those with the Amex Plat. It does seem unfair. :(

[trubey]

Having been around a retail environment most of my working life, as I understand it American Express -- all colors -- charge a much larger 'cut' of each sale than Visa or any other common card. I hear it's up to 10% in some cases. It's difficult to use in most of Europe for that reason, and US retailers who work on a small margin accept it only grudgingly.

Why does AMEX charge more? They are are a 'charge' card, rather than a 'credit' card: normally American Express doesn't have interest payments as part of its operating budget so they make it up with higher fees for their cards and higher charges to merchants. They've tried a few revolving-type accounts, Optima, etc.: but I don't know how they worked out.

JMHO

lane

[sail7seas]

We have traveled extensively all over Europe for a great many years and we have used AmEx all over the place. There were some shops/restaurants that did not accept it but there are some in our local area that also do not accept it.

[trubey]

We have traveled extensively all over Europe for a great many years and we have used AmEx all over the place. There were some shops/restaurants that did not accept it but there are some in our local area that also do not accept it.
I guess by 'difficult to use', I meant for places we go (not Talliavant or Crillon, for instance), where the proprietor usually asks, "Don't you have something else?" and grouses a lot about it.

If I want to use Amex (which I frequently do) I stick my other cards in another pocket in my wallet . . . I just use a green card. Who wants to impress a waiter AFTER dinner?

lkt

[sail7seas]

I cannot (would not want to) speak for anyone else but for us....we carry and use AmEx Platinum primarily because of the travel benefits. Green would suit us just fine if we could get the same benefits. I have no desire to impress a waiter nor anyone else. ;) [We have saved a bundle by carrying (and paying the membership for) AmEx Platinum through the years.]

[Arubalisa]

....we carry and use AmEx Platinum primarily because of the travel benefits. I always thought my husband was a little over indulgent on this card. HOWEVER, being delayed in ATL, for 4 hours Thanksgiving week and having to be at ANY airport at least 2 hours in advance nowadays, makes the airline club privleges alone well worth the price! No amount of money makes up for a clean restroom in an airport of all places...

[Cruising Illini]

I am sure we will cancel our Plat card if this is activated with the TA's. We started to cancel ours a couple of years ago when denied cruise credit by HAL because we had a special promo price and AM EX was very upset and gave us many extra points to keep us happy. Luckily we have had the credit honored on all trips since then but if we don't get the $300 per trip/per cabin on our suites at least 3 times a year we won't use it. We don't like the 2 for 1 air deal -- the airlines and not the carriers we generally fly. Most of the time we use Delta AM EX to cover the air miles and only use Plat. when booking a cruise. I think AM EX will find this will backfire on them because most agencies give nice discounts to thank you for your business and AM EX usually just gives the HAL web site price. Time will tell.

[trubey]

I cannot (would not want to) speak for anyone else but for us....we carry and use AmEx Platinum primarily because of the travel benefits. Green would suit us just fine if we could get the same benefits. I have no desire to impress a waiter nor anyone else. ;) [We have saved a bundle by carrying (and paying the membership for) AmEx Platinum through the years.]
I can't imagine what money you saved with the Amex Platinum card. When they introduced it in 1988 or '89, they sent me about twenty letters on engraved stationery (or maybe thermograph?) telling me how nice I was and asking me to buy their card.

A few letters attached to your name provide the same benefits, I think. . .

LKT, etc.

[Krazy Kruizers]

One place around here that won't accept the AMEX card is Hallmark Cards!!

[sail7seas]

I can't imagine what money you saved with the Amex Platinum card. When they introduced it in 1988 or '89, they sent me about twenty letters on engraved stationery (or maybe thermograph?) telling me how nice I was and asking me to buy their card.

A few letters attached to your name provide the same benefits, I think. . .

LKT, etc.

Without going to great lengths to explain ALL the ways we have saved a great deal of money by paying membership for an AmEx card for many years, I'll elaborate only about our cruising about 4-7 times per year on HAL. Each time we cruise, we get a $300 shipboard credit. At 6 cruises per year, we get $1,800. We would be taking those cruises with or without an AmEx Platinum and we would not be getting $1,800 in shipboard credits if we were using another charge card.


By letters after one's name, I interpret that to mean a Title. If so, the letters after my husband's name would not have gotten him those shipboard credits. What has he been doing wrong? :confused:

[Roadwork]

I will agree with some of the comments about all the establishements that won't take the Amex card. The fee is too high.

[dakrewser]

I will agree with some of the comments about all the establishements that won't take the Amex card. The fee is too high.
Doesn't bother me. My wallet actually holds more than one card.

-dave

[trubey]

By letters after one's name, I interpret that to mean a Title. If so, the letters after my husband's name would not have gotten him those shipboard credits. What has he been doing wrong? :confused:
Actually, I meant M.D., Ph.D, and so forth. An Amex customer service person tipped my mom off on this once when her card was stolen: he said that when a merchant gets a card from a person with letters after their name they can tell, maybe, who might and who would definitely NOT deserve those letters. All her cards now say Ph.D after her name. It also often gets her a free upgrade on many airplane flights if there is room in first- or business-class. She makes sure the tickets are in the name of 'Dr. so-and-so'.

I suppose an HRH would be nice, but it's not in the 'cards' for me or mine.

Six or seven cruises a year? Whew!

Lane Trubey, BFA (not worth much, I'm afraid)

[peaches from georgia]

[QUOTE=trubey].... he said that when a merchant gets a card from a person with letters after their name they can tell, maybe, who might and who would definitely NOT deserve those letters.
[QUOTE]

:confused: What do you mean? If my DH had M.D. after his name on his Amex card, how would a merchant be able to tell if he deserved these letters?

I think you are saying that with letters after ones name it will get you special privileges? As a former merchant I can assure you all merchants ever care about is that the card is approved for the amount of the purchase, no matter what name was on the card.

[sail7seas]

Actually, I meant M.D., Ph.D, and so forth. An Amex customer service person tipped my mom off on this once when her card was stolen: he said that when a merchant gets a card from a person with letters after their name they can tell, maybe, who might and who would definitely NOT deserve those letters. All her cards now say Ph.D after her name. It also often gets her a free upgrade on many airplane flights if there is room in first- or business-class. She makes sure the tickets are in the name of 'Dr. so-and-so'.

I suppose an HRH would be nice, but it's not in the 'cards' for me or mine.

Six or seven cruises a year? Whew!

Lane Trubey, BFA (not worth much, I'm afraid)

Yes....that is what I understood you to mean.

I assure you Peaches is correct in that no merchant ever much cared what letters are after DH's name and we have never had special privileges granted (in that respect). Perhaps in other ways.......

DH never chose to have 'those letters' imprinted on his charge cards.

[trubey]

[QUOTE=peaches from georgia:confused: What do you mean? If my DH had M.D. after his name on his Amex card, how would a merchant be able to tell if he deserved these letters?

I think you are saying that with letters after ones name it will get you special privileges?[/QUOTE]

. . . . and if a scruffy-looking guy in greasy overalls came into your place with an Amex card that said, "MD", you'd just go ahead and process it, right? He might very well have an Amex or any other card, true . . . but he's probably not an MD. I think if the card were stolen or had been lost, it might limit the number of potential abusers, no matter how slightly.

Perks? Mom's been bumped up to first class several times by gate attendants; and I don't know what business you were in, but in the jewelry industry we found that doctors and other professional people were often good customers and as such received preferential treatment, even if it was nothing more than the houseboy bringing them a glass of wine or a snack. They also tend to be repeat customers, important to any successful business which carries big-ticket items.

I don't imagine being a doctor cuts much ice, price-wise, with the clerk at the drycleaners or in a department store, but it sure as heck does when you're buying a $60,000 bracelet. Trust me. ;)

Hey, why not try it? Doesn't cost you anything . . . AND you still get all the Platinum card perks.

Lane :) Be Happy!

[peaches from georgia]

[QUOTE=trubey
.... and I don't know what business you were in, but in the jewelry industry we found that doctors and other professional people were often good customers and as such received preferential treatment, even if it was nothing more than the houseboy bringing them a glass of wine or a snack. They also tend to be repeat customers, important to any successful business which carries big-ticket items.

Lane :) Be Happy![/QUOTE]
Hmmm. I guess we just have a different business philosophy. We preferred to treat ALL customers as if they were special, which of course they were, and we gave everybody shopping with us preferential treatment. Worked for us.

Have to laugh at you specifically mentioning doctors. My middle son is a doc and can spot a business that sucks up to him a mile away, especially if the 'houseboy' is sent to wait on him but not the other customers. He doesn't go back. :)

[trubey]

Peaches quote: He doesn't go back. http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif :endquote

That's funny! Jewelry retailers are SHAMELESS! For one customer, the boss sent the (selfsame) houseboy to White Castle for a few dozen sliders for the guy!

Lane http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif be happy

[Esme]

:confused: Am I missing something here or is someone trying to impress us, talking about $60,000. bracelets, houseboys, etc. etc. :rolleyes:

Called my son, who has his PHd and asked him if there were any letters on his Amex card - answer was NO. He only uses his title for business purposes.


"White Castle for a few dozen sliders for the guy!" What the heck does this mean?????

[peaches from georgia]

Peaches quote: He doesn't go back. http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif :endquote

That's funny! Jewelry retailers are SHAMELESS! For one customer, the boss sent the (selfsame) houseboy to White Castle for a few dozen sliders for the guy!

Lane http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/smile.gif be happy

Maybe it's the way we brought him up. Call him crazy, but he can spot a phony a mile away and prefers to do his jewelry transactions (and there are many) with establishments that value all their customers, no matter their occupation. Maybe that's why he's such a good doctor- he uses the same philosophy with his patients.

[trubey]

"White Castle for a few dozen sliders for the guy!" What the heck does this mean?????
It's a cultural thing. White Castle, aka 'the Porcelain Palace" is a restaurant chain founded in the 1920's whose hamburgers -- at 45 cents -- are commonly called 'sliders', though some wags call them 'postage stamp burgers'. You order 10 or 12 of them at a time and eat them in about one bite each. They're lovely, especially at 2:00 o'clock in the morning. Sorry, I thought they were ubiquitous. Probably not your cup of tea.

The place I worked was impressive, yes. They carried beautiful work from the finest houses in Europe and the US, sometimes costing unthinkable amounts of money, hundreds of thousands of dollars. It was an honor to work on such magnificent things. I was the jeweler in the back room with dirty fingers, and was proud of every single piece I ever made for them. I never worked front-of-the-house as I don't think I could sell discount water in the desert in July -- but I can shore make jewelry.

Lane :) be happy. Nothing much to get outraged about.

[Randyk47]

Our personal experience was that we weren't traveling enough or using our AMEX enough to justify the added expense of the Platinum card. Sometimes I even wonder why we pay the extra Gold card charge and have been tempted to cut back to the regular green version.

As for professional titles/certifications, neither my wife or I use ours for anything but work and then only if required. The older I get the less impressed I am with such things. :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Have I been asleep? How did I miss this? My father used to have 3 words that fit the initials PhD and they come to mind now for some reason. First, I can't imagine why a PhD, MD, DMD, MBA or any other letters would get anyone anything extra on a cruiseship or anywhere else because of their "professional" status.

Secondly, no one should judge anyone's profession by their appearance. You'd be amazed at some Doctor's apparel when they're out casually. I would challenge any store clerk to suggest that someone is not who they say they are based on the way they're dressed or wear their hair. That's just a confrontation waiting to happen.

As for placing the letters after one's name to distringuish oneself from the "rest of the pack", I believe that's a sign of a basic insecurity. Anyone truly worth their "title" doesn't need to have it imprinted on their credit card. And my dear Dad used to also say there are many more horse's back ends in the world than there are horses. Actually he said it a little different than that, but .....:o . You may wonder what that has to do with anything, but some may "get it";) . Likely you'll see more PhD's after names on credit cards than MD's. Just a guess:rolleyes:.

[trubey]

quote, "get it"http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/wink.gif endquote:

OK, here's why I think it's a good idea, in one sentence:

If somebody in greasy overalls and all the trimmings (or whatever) showed up in my establishment and tried to pay with a card with MD or PhD or HRH or something else obviously inappropriate at the end of the name, I'd call the issuing company to make sure it was valid.

Draw your own conclusions. Thank you.

LKT

[Krazy Kruizers]

Both of us have had AM EX Plat cards for years and years. Neither of us chose to have our any special letters placed after our names - and we could have have chosen that option. So no one knows whether we are DR's or PHD's - just our choice.

And we have never had any trouble charging anything, anywhere, in any country.

And yes - we both carry other major cards where places don't accept AM Ex - including Hallmark.

[HeatherInFlorida]

quote, "get it"http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/wink.gif endquote:

OK, here's why I think it's a good idea, in one sentence:

If somebody in greasy overalls and all the trimmings (or whatever) showed up in my establishment and tried to pay with a card with MD or PhD or HRH or something else obviously inappropriate at the end of the name, I'd call the issuing company to make sure it was valid.

Draw your own conclusions. Thank you.

LKT
I'm sorry ... I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I happen to have personal friends who are professional MDs and you should see one of them under the hood of his antique car:D . Nothing would stop this guy from running out that way.

I still maintain you cannot judge a book by its cover. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a little caution as long as you don't make it obvious so I'm not saying you're wrong in how you handle the situation.

[Sierrachik]

I'm sorry ... I'm really not trying to be difficult, but I happen to have personal friends who are professional MDs and you should see one of them under the hood of his antique car:D . Nothing would stop this guy from running out that way.

I still maintain you cannot judge a book by its cover. On the other hand, there's nothing wrong with a little caution as long as you don't make it obvious so I'm not saying you're wrong in how you handle the situation.
I agree with you about judging a book by it's cover, Heather :) It's been proven over and over in my business. Customers will never cease to surprise me :)

[dakrewser]

quote, "get it"http://messages.cruisecritic.com/images/smilies/wink.gif endquote:

OK, here's why I think it's a good idea, in one sentence:

If somebody in greasy overalls and all the trimmings (or whatever) showed up in my establishment and tried to pay with a card with MD or PhD or HRH or something else obviously inappropriate at the end of the name, I'd call the issuing company to make sure it was valid.

Draw your own conclusions.
You're living in the last century? Or maybe the one before??

I've known many an MD, PhD, DD, DDS, DSc, and more who could be found in "greasy overalls" (perhaps you mean, cutoff jeans?). Clothes, no more than initials, make the man. Most of the people I know with large amounts of money to burn have no more than a BS or BA to legitimately put after their name - and many aren't even entitled to that. They all dropped out of school (college or in some cases high school) to make their pile as computer programmers. THe more perspicacious ones could buy and sell a HAL ship, some could buy or sell the line and a few could buy and sell Carnival Corp. Very few of them have any clothing sense whatsoever.

-dave

[HeatherInFlorida]

You're living in the last century? Or maybe the one before??

I've known many an MD, PhD, DD, DDS, DSc, and more who could be found in "greasy overalls" (perhaps you mean, cutoff jeans?). Clothes, no more than initials, make the man. Most of the people I know with large amounts of money to burn have no more than a BS or BA to legitimately put after their name - and many aren't even entitled to that. They all dropped out of school (college or in some cases high school) to make their pile as computer programmers. THe more perspicacious ones could buy and sell a HAL ship, some could buy or sell the line and a few could buy and sell Carnival Corp. Very few of them have any clothing sense whatsoever.

-dave
:) Dave, sort of what I was saying but a bit differently;) .... Maybe it's different in Portugal?

[dakrewser]

:) Dave, sort of what I was saying but a bit differently;) .... Maybe it's different in Portugal?
Europe is more formal than the US, and Portugal is one of the more formal countries in Europe (at least it appeard that way when we were in Lisbon a few years ago) so that might be the difference.

-dave

[Cruising Jake]

I know that in Germany they even put professional certifications after their name. For example, a person who has passed the exam for professional engineer will put PE after their name. They are very social conscious - right or wrong. I would not add my degrees, but then that's me.

[gizmo]

It's a cultural thing. White Castle, aka 'the Porcelain Palace" is a restaurant chain founded in the 1920's whose hamburgers -- at 45 cents -- are commonly called 'sliders', though some wags call them 'postage stamp burgers'. You order 10 or 12 of them at a time and eat them in about one bite each. They're lovely, especially at 2:00 o'clock in the morning. Sorry, I thought they were ubiquitous. Probably not your cup of tea.

:D LOL at "It's a cultural thing." I am familiar with White Castle and that description is unique. In order to eat one, it must be after midnight, and the person has been out on the town all night. :D

[sail7seas]

:D LOL at "It's a cultural thing." I am familiar with White Castle and that description is unique. In order to eat one, it must be after midnight, and the person has been out on the town all night. :D

Feel like translating? What in the world does that mean?
Seeing as we have traveled far from the topic, it would be nice to understand the path it has taken. FYI...there is no White Castle in our area.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Feel like translating? What in the world does that mean?
Seeing as we have traveled far from the topic, it would be nice to understand the path it has taken. FYI...there is no White Castle in our area.
Sail, even if there were I can promise you that we'd never see you "dining" there;) .

[dakrewser]

Feel like translating? What in the world does that mean?
Seeing as we have traveled far from the topic, it would be nice to understand the path it has taken. FYI...there is no White Castle in our area.Think "White Tower", which is very similar (not sure which is the original and which came later). There were numerous White Towers in Rhode Island when I was a lad and it was the de riguer stopping point on a Saturday morning (around 1 or 2 AM) after a Friday night date...

http://www.emu.edu/staff/marpledj/carlisle%20pics/white-castle.jpg

[elmorejj]

Great picture! and they still look exactly the same minus the 5 cent sign, at least here in Ohio. Giz, I agree totally about eating them!! :cool:

[peaches from georgia]

Hamburgers like White Castle's®

Prep. Time: 0:20
Serves: 4

1/4 cup hot water
1/4 cup dry minced onion
3 oz. beef baby food
1 lb. lean ground beef
2/3 cup beef broth
1 pkg. hot dog buns - buns cut in thirds



-Combine water and onion in cup and allow to soak for 10 minutes.
-Combine baby food, beef, and broth in bowl. Mix well.
-Form into 2 1/2" - 3" patties.
-Fry patties and onions together in skillet over medium heat until brown on both sides.
-Serve patties in section of bun and top with onions.

This pretty much tells all one needs to know about White Castle burgers. This all started when a poster said these were served by a 'houseboy' in an expensive jewelry store. Sure they were. With what wine?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oh! Peaches! Yuck!! And double YUCK!!! LOL:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

In our area it was the "White Tower" - I remember them very well. The last one closed down just a few years ago in Pittsburgh. It has been many, many, many years since I ate there.

[peaches from georgia]

Oh! Peaches! Yuck!! And double YUCK!!! LOL:D
It's that beef baby food that gives them that distinctive White Castle taste. Any Mother who has ever tasted that stuff knows exactly what I mean! :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

Are they the square ones? A thousand years ago I remember someone bringing in square hamburgers to the office for everyone. I passed because they looked gross. I've passed their "restaurants", but just never decided to go inside . Must be my psychic abilities kicking in again:D

[peaches from georgia]

You got it, Heather. Square. Picture taking a hot dog bun, cutting off the rounded ends, and cutting the now straight roll into 3 small square sections. I've never actually tried one either. It was something about the color and smell that turned me off. ;)

[gizmo]

Heather,
They may have brought in a "Krytal's square hamburger". Very Gross ! I believe to be a White Castle, they have to have a hole in them. I have seen White Castle in the frozen section at super markets.

KK,
I am familiar with the White Towers too.:)

[sail7seas]

Hamburgers like White Castle's®

Prep. Time: 0:20
Serves: 4

1/4 cup hot water
1/4 cup dry minced onion
3 oz. beef baby food
1 lb. lean ground beef
2/3 cup beef broth
1 pkg. hot dog buns - buns cut in thirds



-Combine water and onion in cup and allow to soak for 10 minutes.
-Combine baby food, beef, and broth in bowl. Mix well.
-Form into 2 1/2" - 3" patties.
-Fry patties and onions together in skillet over medium heat until brown on both sides.
-Serve patties in section of bun and top with onions.

This pretty much tells all one needs to know about White Castle burgers. This all started when a poster said these were served by a 'houseboy' in an expensive jewelry store. Sure they were. With what wine?


That sounds positively disgusting. Happily I am reading this just as I was about to think about getting myself some lunch. This is a great incentive to skip a meal and lose and maybe lose an ounce. A sure appetite suppressant.

[sail7seas]

Thank, Dave.


A picture is worth a thousand words!!! :eek:

[sail7seas]

Sail, even if there were I can promise you that we'd never see you "dining" there;) .
__________________




Heather.... :) You've got that Right!!! ;)

[HeatherInFlorida]

__________________
Heather.... :) You've got that Right!!! ;)
:D Hee hee. Thought so;) .

Gizmo, no I don't think it was Krytals. We didn't have any of those around. It was White something; I know that. Makes no diff because I didn't get close enough to see if there was a hole in them!!!!

Peaches, the whole picture is so delightful.

[trubey]

Wow! You people are GREAT! Dave, where did you get the picture? I must have one!

And the recipe! I've spent a lot of hours trying to duplicate the exact flavor, but hadn't tumbled to the Baby Food angle. I steam them though, like the originals. I'm running out to get some baby food so I can try it!

[dakrewser]

Wow! You people are GREAT! Dave, where did you get the picture? I must have one!


http://www.emu.edu/staff/marpledj/carlisle%20pics/white-castle.jpg


:) -dave

[trubey]

Yay! New wallpaper for my screen!

Thanks!

lkt

[Krazy Kruizers]

That receipe is something else!

That is one that I will not be coping for my files.

Glad we are going out to eat tonight. And we won't be dining in any place similar to White Castle or White Tower.

[ekerr19]

A few letters attached to your name provide the same benefits, I think. . .

Funny you should mention letters after ones name...

I had to send three Amex cards back to them before they would spell DH's name properly, he is "the second" and for some reason, they kept trying to change his name to Jr, Sr, etc., etc - before they FINALLY got it right - it's II, not 2nd. :D

It really made me wonder who's running the shop over at Amex!

[Arubalisa]

Hamburgers like White Castle's®
Prep. Time: 0:20
Serves: 4
1/4 cup hot water
1/4 cup dry minced onion
3 oz. beef baby food
1 lb. lean ground beef
2/3 cup beef broth
1 pkg. hot dog buns - buns cut in thirds
-Combine water and onion in cup and allow to soak for 10 minutes.
-Combine baby food, beef, and broth in bowl. Mix well.
-Form into 2 1/2" - 3" patties.
-Fry patties and onions together in skillet over medium heat until brown on both sides.
-Serve patties in section of bun and top with onions.

This pretty much tells all one needs to know about White Castle burgers. This all started when a poster said these were served by a 'houseboy' in an expensive jewelry store. Sure they were. With what wine? Are you REALLY from Georgia :D ???

My parents went to White Castle on one of their first dates, or was that Rutt's Hut? (a little more trivia for ya'll) :)

[peaches from georgia]

Are you REALLY from Georgia :D ???
[/color]
Huh? Why would you ask? I got the recipe from a Google search that took about 5 seconds.

[Arubalisa]

Huh? Why would you ask? I got the recipe from a Google search that took about 5 seconds.No offense intended :o , just always thought White Castles were a horror only Northerners were subjected to...

[peaches from georgia]

No offense taken. I just didn't see the connection; now that you mention it I do. Originally from the North East, now North Atlanta. :D Where are you in North Georgia?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Has anyone given any thought to how ironic it is that we went from the Platinum Card to White Castle? That is one loooooong road.............:D

[gizmo]

For those interested.

Virtuoso executives presented American Express with a proposal meant to replace a plan requiring independent agents to pay $1,000 to $7,000 for the right to book Platinum- or Centurion-card travel benefits for clients.
American Express declined to comment on the Virtuoso proposal, which envisions a per-transaction charge instead. It would apply only to sales of the Fine Hotels & Resorts component of the Platinum/Centurion product line. The idea is that since American Express processes those bookings, agents might be more receptive to paying a fee for that service.

Kristi Jones, Virtuoso’s president, said they did not discuss how much the per-transaction fee might be.

A second part of the Virtuoso proposal is to convene a “summit” meeting among American Express, cruise line and agency officials to discuss ways of automating the process of assigning tracking numbers to Cruise Privileges bookings, which agents process themselves. In those cases, agents rely on Amex only for a tracking number, which agents request by phone or fax.

American Express previously said it had considered technology to accomplish this but felt the initial investment would be too high.

Jones said, “We have high hopes” American Express will buy into the alternative plan because it meets Amex’s stated need to recover some costs of providing services to independent agents and it is “palatable” to the trade because it is related to real use of the Amex services desk.

As things stand now, she said, “the market is telling American Express something else.” She said not a single Virtuoso member has agreed to pay the proposed fees.

Jones said Virtuoso pointed out that its members sell $1.2 billion a year in travel that is paid for with an American Express card, and “while each agency makes its own decision” about how to direct business, “that volume is at risk.”

Officials at Ensemble and the Signature Travel Network also reported that, to their knowledge, none of their members had agreed to the fees, further suggesting the trade is not responding well to the American Express plan. Ensemble CEO Jack Mannix said his group’s largest producers “ain’t paying $6,000 or $7,000. ... With that kind of money, we could underwrite [a lot of programs] at Ensemble.”

Virtuoso CEO Matthew Upchurch and Jones presented the Virtuoso proposal last week to Gordon Smith, president of American Express’ Consumer Card Services Group, and Cynthia Valles, senior vice president and general manager of the Consumer Travel Network.

The American Express plan, meant to launch with the new year, envisions setting fee levels for each agency based only on bookings for the Cruise Privileges and Destinations Vacations offerings, although the fees would be required to book into the Fine Hotels & Resorts component, as well.

The flat-fee plan produced protests that the fees are arbitrary, too high and burdensome for small agencies because the minimum $1,000 fee would apply regardless of how few bookings an agency might have.

American Express, in announcing its fee plan, said it would beef up commission tracking and reporting capabilities on hotel and resort sales.

Currently, Jones said, while agents get their commissions eventually, there is no consistent reporting of sales to agents or hotels, which means there is no guarantee the hotel will know which agency brought in which bookings.

That’s another reason, Jones said, agents would find the Virtuoso proposal more palatable: They could link payments to benefits they could see. In addition to complaints from individual agents, the American Express plan is believed to have triggered a stream of letters and e-mails to Amex executives from top suppliers.

Micato Safaris Managing Director Dennis Pinto, for example, said in a letter to American Express that his company, which accepts only the American Express card, is under pressure from its agents to accept Visa and MasterCard.

[Krazy Kruizers]

gizmo

Thanks for the update

AND

for getting us back on track.

[Roadwork]

Amex to White Castle? This thread is waaaaaaaaaay to wierd for me, but I do have one question.
Does White Castle accept Amex Cards?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Weeeeeellllll, white and platinum are verrrrrry close;) .

[gizmo]

Another update.

American Express will postpone until second-quarter 2005 a plan to charge independent agents for the right to book Platinum- and Centurion-card benefits for clients, and it will alter its previously announced flat-fee plan to give agents a choice of two payment programs.

One choice will be the original proposal -- an annual fee of $1,000 to $7,000 (based on volume) -- and the alternative will be per-transaction fees, but those fee levels have not been finalized. Transaction fees will apply to bookings in the Fine Hotels & Resorts, Cruise Privileges and Destination Vacations options.

In making the announcement Thursday, American Express said it was responding to discussions “with a number of agents.” The flat-fee plan had produced a sharp outcry from affected agents.

Also, at the end of last month, Virtuoso executives proposed that American Express switch to a per-transaction program on the grounds that it would be more palatable to agents who would see a relationship between services and their payments.

Virtuoso, however, proposed that the fees should apply only to the Fine Hotels & Resorts component of the Platinum/Centurion product line because, while the Amex service desk provides a tracking number, it does not actually process the bookings for the cruise and destination products.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks gizmo for the update.