Removing the Auto-Tip?

[ekerr19]

Until last month, we had not sailed under the new auto-tip policy. I was curious to see how the pax and crew would react to it. We talked to several of the crew who didn't seem to have as much of an issue with it as they did with some of the new policies associated with it.

I did witness an older, distinguished, well dressed gentleman removing it while I was at the front desk. When the desk clerk told him he would have to give the reason why, he loudly proclaimed that he was removing it because he was told he could - and HAL is a "tip-free" cruise line.

I'm curious if any recent cruisers have removed the auto-tip... has anyone witnessed another pax doing so?

In my mind HAL should just "bite the bullet" and include the amount of the tip in the cost of the cruise. The current method is very confusing to many pax and the crew are the ones getting the short end of the stick.

Obviously, there are still folks (and TA's) out there who think tipping on HAL is not required.

Any thoughts?

[Orcrone]

I did witness an older, distinguished, well dressed gentleman removing it while I was at the front desk. When the desk clerk told him he would have to give the reason why, he loudly proclaimed that he was removing it because he was told he could - and HAL is a "tip-free" cruise line.Ekerr,

He may have been an older, distinguished, well dressed gentleman. However, that does not mean that he is not a penny-pinching SOB. I'm sure that the front desk explained the change in policy and that it is no longer a "tip-free" cruise line, but that did not make a difference.

On a cruise I have never received service poor enough to warrant removing a tip (although it has happened in restaurants two or three times in my life). Nothing in his response indicated that he was removing it because of lack of service. To remove it because at some time in the past HAL advertised itself as tipping not required is ludicrous.

To answer your question, I've never removed an auto-tip, nor have I witnessed anyone doing it. However, I was not near the front desk on the last day of the cruise, so I would only have known if someone decided to inform me of this.

[Arubalisa]

Ekerr, He may have been an older, distinguished, well dressed gentleman. However, that does not mean that he is not a penny-pinching SOB. Or mentally incapacitated...
kind of like those elderly drivers that put the car in reverse and then blame it on the car...no offense to any oldsters- no flames please- I will be one also someday but promise to stop driving way before then...ignorance is bliss, no matter how you come by it :rolleyes:

[Pete Jackson]

Yeah, the whole autotip idea is ludicrous. They should give the autotip money only to those who are customarily tipped: the steward, waiter, assistant waiter, and maitre-d, and say that they are doing that so that people can manually tip whomever else they desire. And if somebody is unhappy with the steward, say, they should be able to reduce or remove the autotip, and then manually tip the waiters, etc. HAL should just pay the baker, and painter a competitive wage based on the cruise fare - sheesh, if I don't like the rolls, am I to remove the autotip and penalize everybody else? I suppose you could just tell the front desk that you are removing the tip because of the rolls and let all the other staff members beat up on the baker!

The way they are treating it, they should just add the autotip to the cruise fare, or, at least mention the amount of the autotip on all web pages and brochures that give cruise fares.

[Kami's pal]

Until last month, we had not sailed under the new auto-tip policy. I was curious to see how the pax and crew would react to it. We talked to several of the crew who didn't seem to have as much of an issue with it as they did with some of the new policies associated with it.

Obviously, there are still folks (and TA's) out there who think tipping on HAL is not required.

Any thoughts?

I don't like the pooling policy. That's the one that HAL describes as providing "incentives to the behind the scenes staff" by requiring 'the crew to turn in any tips received privately from passengers who remove or reduce the gratuities automatically charged to their onboard account. Is that the other policy"?

You said, "policies" so did the crew member say which other policies they didn't like?

[dakrewser]

To paraphrase an old saw, you can't judge a boor by his "cover" :rolleyes:


I'm in agreement with those who say "roll the charge into the cruise fare" then let me reward those who do provide service "above and beyond"...

-dave

[ekerr19]

You said, "policies" so did the crew member say which other policies they didn't like?

The three items we heard most often: The cost of providing their own uniforms, buying their own plane tickets to and from home, and apparently there was a dramatic change to the accrual of vacation time.

[Kami's pal]

Used to be that cost of fare home was an incentive to work the whole term of their contract. So, if they left before the 11 month tour was finished, cruise line would penalize them. Now, they have 1-12 of fare deducted from the pooled tips. No incentive to stay the whole term.

I also heard that they are now responsible for the laundering of their uniforms. I didn't know they had to pay for purchase. Doing their personal laundry must be costly if they have to put coins into the dryers. Laundry and dry cleaning must be very costly. Every crew member I saw was immaculate, even white gloves on "yum yum" man. I cringe every time I write that. He's a grown man. Seems demeaning. Anybody else feel that way?

What is management doing to help morale? Surely the personnel managers understand the need to address that. There is lots of research on psychology of workers, need for feeling of control of conditions and environment etc.

[jhannah]

I did witness a curmudgeon removing the auto-tip from his shipboard account. The desk clerk patiently explained how everything worked and asked him to reconsider, as it would affect many people. She said that if there was a problem somewhere she would be glad to take the information and notify the appropriate parties. His claim? It was too much. And why was it too much? Well, he and his wife were both being assessed the auto-tip ... and the cabin steward had to make up only one bed! I kid you not. I'm not making this up! My jaw dropped. The desk clerk saw it was a loosing battle and asked him how much to remove, and his answer was, "All of it." All I could do was shake my head. But I sure wanted to pop the guy a good one! :rolleyes:

[ekerr19]

Jim-

It's unbelievable isn't it? I am not a huge fan of the way the auto-tip has been presented, implemented and functions, but I don't think it can sufficiently begin to cover the things it took away... just my 2 cents.

Only one bed to make up? geez, I thought I'd heard it all.

[Kami's pal]

When I first started posting about this, lots of people answered that at least now those that never tipped would be forced to. Apparently, those who didn't tip before still won't tip. And with all the other ways the employees are being stiffed by their employers, I predict that there will continue to be a large turnover of crew with resulting lower morale and more reports of unhappy passengers.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Yes - we were among the first to have the automatic tip placed on our bill last May. We did not opt to have it removed. At that time a lot of people were confused with the new policy and no real explanation was given - so people opted to have it removed from their acoounts. At that time they got a form to fill out (now dropped) and had to explain why they wanted it dropped. And they got a form letter from (now dropped) from the captain.

But people are still opting to have the tips taken off their accounts.

Even on our last 21 day cruise there was a suite couple who had the tips dropped and wanted to tip everyone on their own - and others - passengers and concierge kept explaining to them that once the automatic tip is removed, their cabin steward, and dining room staff are notifed and the crew who served them for 21 days would be required to turn in any tips given to them by that couple and that the tips would be split among all crew members. They got into a real huff about the new policy. Have no idea if they changed their minds.

[dakrewser]

Even on our last 21 day cruise there was a suite couple who had the tips dropped and wanted to tip everyone on their own - and others - passengers and concierge kept explaining to them that once the automatic tip is removed, their cabin steward, and dining room staff are notifed and the crew who served them for 21 days would be required to turn in any tips given to them by that couple and that the tips would be split among all crew members. They got into a real huff about the new policy.

And I must say I agree with them. A tip should reflect the level of service, and I (the "tipper") should be able to decide who (the "tippee") and how much (the "tip").

Of course, just imagine if they were on NCL - where you can't remove or reduce the charge!

-dave

[elmorejj]

These scrooges that elect to have their tips removed are probably the same ones who are first in line for the Capts. welcome party, the Mariners Party and any other affair where free drinks are being passed out, not to mention slathering liqueurs on their ice cream, but you will never see them in the lounges buying a drink..they make me sick!!........jean :cool:

[stanjj111]

While the additional charge of $10 is not excessive there seems to be some conflicting factors.
I have heard that the service has gone down from the past. Therefore, this policy of adding money did not improve services.
TIP stands for "to insure promtness". The cruise line should pay an appropriate living wage for all employees. If a person is good you should be able to reward them above and beyond and if not not leave them a tip. Having to divide money given to employees among all people if the automatic tip is removed does not make sense. All the line is trying to do is to discourage tipping outside of the plan.
Does the 15% that is charged to drinks get added to the pool. If not why not based on this policy. I should be able to remove this charge also.
Not withstanding all of the above I am on a cruise to enjoy myself. Employees at this level get minium wages and I go along with the tipping policy. It just seems to me that the line is cutting down on salaries just like resturants do.

[Pete Jackson]

But how can they make staff who got tips individually from pax who removed the autotip, actually turn these tips in? Surely they could find a way to squirrel the envelopes into some hiding place until the coast was clear. Did anybody make a good enough acquaintance with a steward to ask this?

[Kami's pal]

But how can they make staff who got tips individually from pax who removed the autotip, actually turn these tips in? Surely they could find a way to squirrel the envelopes into some hiding place until the coast was clear. Did anybody make a good enough acquaintance with a steward to ask this?


If you remove or reduce your gratuities, the accountant has your name, cabin number and table number. They will go to each person whom you might have tipped privately and demand the tips for the pool. Now, one person might be able to conceal a "privately received" tip once in a while, but if (s)he isn't adding to the revenue of those in the pool either by turning in their tips or receiving the auto tip, their fellow crew will start asking questions. One time the story of the customer who didn't tip might be believed, especially if the crew member is certain (s)he wasn't seen receiving the tip and that no one else confesses to receiving a tip. But if that crew member consistently doesn't get any tips at all, either by turning in privately earned tips or receving shares of the pooled tips, their fellow crew members are bound to become suspicious.
I'm certain that is also part of HAL's strategy. Instead of
supervisors doing training, filing formative evaluations, supplying counseling, raising wages of good workers, they make every worker monitor everyone else's work.
Not great for team building!

[sail7seas]

I am sure there are enough cynics out there who will be more than happy to ask if I am out of my mind, but........


Anyone ever hear of good, old fashioned honesty?

[trubey]

I had a thought on this. If the cabin stewards and dining servers have to pool tips from passengers removing the automatic gratuity, instead of being sneaky (or dishonest, thank you sail 7 seas) perhaps a bullion wafer or a silver bullion coin or two given to an exceptional servant would do the trick. Given as a gift, though valuta but not currency, I don't think it would be subject to pooling and be easily convertible if so desired by the recipient or his family.

Lane

[Esme]

Jim - there will always be cheapskates out there. Years ago, we asked our cabin steward (now a Chief Housekeeper) how much he would receive in tips on the World Cruise. He said one old guy have him $25.00 for the whole cruise. :eek: :rolleyes: We were absoltuely flabbergasted, that the old B***er could afford a WC, but would only give his cabin steward $25.00. :mad:

[Orcrone]

Jim - there will always be cheapskates out there. Years ago, we asked our cabin steward (now a Chief Housekeeper) how much he would receive in tips on the World Cruise. He said one old guy have him $25.00 for the whole cruise. :eek: :rolleyes: We were absoltuely flabbergasted, that the old B***er could afford a WC, but would only give his cabin steward $25.00. :mad:Esme,

Your post says one old guy. He may have been a cheap SOB, but sometimes people don't know better. Often it's the older person tipping what used to be a good tip. Not directly related but I had a paper route when I was a teenager. It cost $1.35 a week for the paper. When I went to collect the money I had one elderly gentleman give me $1.50. After I gave him his change he would hand the $0.15 back, saying "and this is for you".

15 cents was not much of a tip, not even in the 70s. But I was sure he wasn't being cheap, his perspective was from a time that 15 cents was a good tip.

On the other hand I had customers that would always send their kids out to pay me, and they'd have exact change. They were cheap. Everyday I would get one or two papers at the outside of the bundle that were ripped. I wonder who wound up with those papers.:rolleyes:

[jhannah]

15 cents was not much of a tip, not even in the 70s. But I was sure he wasn't being cheap, his perspective was from a time that 15 cents was a good tip.Very likely. Several years ago, my FIL (who is now in an Altzheimers facility) would put two bits on the table when he and other family members went out to eat. When the others dining protested that this wasn't enough, he insisted that it was most generous. Someone would have to linger until he was gone from the table to place a proper tip. Funny, in a sad sort of way. I don't think this is the case with those who stiff their cruise staff. Those folks are simply cheapskates.

[Esme]

"I don't think this is the case with those who stiff their cruise staff. Those folks are simply cheapskates."

That exactly what we thought, Jim. We were born during he Depression, so know the value of a nickle and this guy was just plain cheap. Even back in the early '80's when we first started sailing, we would never have left the cabin steward so little. I think in those days, it was $2.50 per day per person for the cabin steward and dining room steward. Your FIL sounds like my Dad when we went to a restaurant - we always topped it off when he wasn't looking. ;)

[Marebear]

We were recently on the Westerdam and , although we kept the tips on our bill, we also tipped the cabin stewards and the waiters in the dining room. Did they have to turn these tips in?

[Orcrone]

We were recently on the Westerdam and , although we kept the tips on our bill, we also tipped the cabin stewards and the waiters in the dining room. Did they have to turn these tips in?No, they only have to turn in the tips if you remove, or reduce the automatic tip.

If you leave it in place, then anything additionally given to the stewards can be kept by them.

Still seems like quite the daunting task, remembering who gave you a tip, learning whether or not they kept the auto-tip in place and keeping track of it all.

[Peggy Sue]

HAL has created a monster....

I overhead many, many confused passengers on the volendam last month about the tipping policy. Heard many say they were going to go down and remove the auto tip because they didn't like it. Sad...They just didn't understand it.

We have a wonderful opportunity here to share information and gain an understanding before we set out on our cruises. I know many who book a vacation and just show up and go with the flow of things...I think these are the folks who get confused. They knew what was and don't understand what has changed, and the letters, etc. are confusing.

We spoke with the staff about the tipping policy. the ones we spoke with were not thrilled with it and they thanked us for taking the time to ask how it worked. Of course, we left on the auto tip and handed out cash at the end of the cruise.

Pinnacle..if you add a tip to the bill presented at the end of the meal...It's pooled. If you leave cash with the signed receipt, they may keep it. Got this from the head waiter, or who ever that gentleman is that greets you when you arrive. We asked...

Bar staff .. we were surprised to learn the 15% auto tip is pooled, so we started leaving cash tips for the servers who treated us well. The Bar Staff told us they operate in the negative. Yes, they pay for their flight home, uniforms, food and whole list of things.

People can be cheap...they believe they paid good money for the cruise and the shouldn't have to shell out more. The cruise industry needs to address this...add the tip to the cruise cost, pay fair wages and end this mess..that way, if we do receive terrific service and want to leave some cash...it's a reward for excellent service...something to motivate..which is sadly lacking today.

Peggy Sue

[elmorejj]

Maybe the Cruise Director should explain and discuss the auto tipping policy at the welcome aboard speech instead of the disembarkation speech, at least the pax who are unaware of the policy will know what to expect. :cool:

[tlmlb]

Pooling tips is a terrific way to build team unity and performance. Everyone has a stake in everyone's performance and if presented by management correctly, the team members will buy in and service levels will rise.

The tip pool can be adjusted for specific mentions in passenger evaluations. It can also be adjusted to reflect seniority. It provides more predictable income streams to the staff.

The key here is that passengers still must remember to reward individuals (read extra cash tips) for exceptional service. If they are really good, certain team members will still earn more than the average by these direct payments they can keep as well as pool differentials.

The everyone is out for themselves does not work nor belong in a team service environment.

[CrabbyHarper]

On our recent voyage we just accepted the tip charge on the bill - sorta like accepting the mosquitoes that come with warm weather. A necessary evil. We also tipped our cabin steward quite generously (in fact, I tipped him when I first met him, again about halfway through the voyage, and at the end) and the table waiter not quite so generously - we missed several dinners. The wine steward was attentive when we needed him so he got a nice tip, too. Then we went through a huge stack of dollar bills that went to bar waiters, room service, laundry delivery. A very nice tip went to the Neptune concierge. I actually spent more in tips than I ever had before.

While I don't like the new tipping policy - I always thought that TIPS meant "To insure personal service" - I will go along with it rather than penalize the hardworking and cheerful staff.

I just wish that HAL would pay its cooks, bakers, candlestick makers, deckhands, engineers, stokers, carpenters, whatever! decent wages! Then pax could tip the folks who wait on them personally.

Yup - there will still be cheapskates who won't tip, but most of us won't be in that group.

[Whiskeyman]

Are we, as human beings, not smart enough to tip who we think should be tipped?
I don't really mind the auto tip (I have the whatever attitude towards it) but reading these post and some in the past it's like the cruise line(s) don't think we are smart enough to give out tips where there needed.
When I go out to dinner and the server does a great job I give a great tip, lousy job lousy tip, but I still tip, no matter what.
Was this auto tip started by the cruise lines because people were not tipping or not enough?
I think (IMO) that a few tightwads ruined it for everyone else.
I'm still tipping who I think deserves it for our upcoming cruise, plus leaving the auto tip on. And thats my 2 cents...

[CaptData]

I don't know about Holland but on Princess the staff receive a list of those who removed the tipping in the middle of the cruise. I found this out when my cabin person was making my bed (I walked in). He had not turn it down the way it was the other night so I asked him why not. He asked me if I did not like what he had done. I was mistified until he told me that I had removed the auto tip (which I had not done). I told him it was in place, he said no and showed me the list with my name and two others on it. I went to front desk and asked why it had been removed. They discoved it was taken off the wrong account. I have always left it on and given more to some. Princess gave me a room credit for this mistake as I told them I like the stward very much (He left me extra candies at the begining). When I seen the Stward a day later he was back to smiling.

In defence of Princess, there was another pax with my name in the reverse number cabin, they were the ones removing it. They did not like anything, I heard them complaining about the water from the tap, they might get Hep A. They complained about the spices used in cooking, the fact that they could not get a lounger right at the pool ect.

[Orcrone]

I don't know about Holland but on Princess the staff receive a list of those who removed the tipping in the middle of the cruise. I found this out when my cabin person was making my bed (I walked in). He had not turn it down the way it was the other night so I asked him why not. He asked me if I did not like what he had done. I was mistified until he told me that I had removed the auto tip (which I had not done). I told him it was in place, he said no and showed me the list with my name and two others on it. I went to front desk and asked why it had been removed. They discoved it was taken off the wrong account. I have always left it on and given more to some. Princess gave me a room credit for this mistake as I told them I like the stward very much (He left me extra candies at the begining). When I seen the Stward a day later he was back to smiling.

In defence of Princess, there was another pax with my name in the reverse number cabin, they were the ones removing it. They did not like anything, I heard them complaining about the water from the tap, they might get Hep A. They complained about the spices used in cooking, the fact that they could not get a lounger right at the pool ect.CaptData,

If I'm not mistaken HAL won't allow the tip to be removed until the last day of the cruise, giving them much less time to disseminate the info to the stewards. Also, I believe it's to make it more inconvenient for passengers to do this.