Bad Holland America Customer Service

[dmprof]

I booked a 15 day Asian Cruise on Holland America with a travel agent that went AWOL for a number of months. I gather that he has had some personal issues. We are traveling with friends that recommended the agent. They admitted that his behavior seemed pretty lax and unusual over the last 6 months.

Even when he was on his game, he was none too careful. He booked my wife using someone else's first name, not even close to her's.

When I couldn't reach him, I contacted Holland America customer service. Each time they told me that because I had booked through an agent, I had to speak with the agent. They refused to help, even with my wife's name correction. After a few more calls to Holland America, an HA phone rep suggested that I try to call the agent one more time, and if I didn't reach him, to call back Holland America and ask for a supervisor.

I followed that advice, when I didn't raise the agent. The Holland America supervisor also would not help, and started quoting from their policy manual. This is the kind of thing that turns customers into real detractors.

I finally got the agent's attention after my credit card was charged for airfare that I had not planned to purchase. I simply called and left a message to cancel the reservation, which did get his attention.

He has helped to get the reservation straight now. But, Holland America is levying penalties for changes, which have substantially increased the cost of this cruise. And, of course, because I booked through an agent, they simply have ignored my requests for help, and refer me back to the agent. I have never been so rudely or poorly treated by a travel company.

Sure, the problem started with the agent. I am not defending the agent, but the issues could have been resolved months ago if Holland America had spent a moment speaking with me. Typically, cruise lines try to help their customers. It is there reputation, not the travel agent's that is tarnished.

This is not my first cruise. I have sailed on Windstar, Celebrity and other lines. It is my first time on Holland America. And, it is the first time that I have had cruise line nightmare, even before I have boarded the ship.

Any ideas on how I might get through to someone at Holland America that cares about their customers? Do they have a customer Ombudsman? Or, is Holland America a cruise line that I should stay away from, one that doesn't care about their customer experience?

[knitlady037]

HAL cannot help you with your problems because you did not book with them. If they did, can you imagine the problems that that would cause with the agencies that book many cruises with them? Is your agency by chance the one in Florida that just went bankrupt? They were known for non existant customer service and many unauthorized charges to credit cards. Sorry about your problems, but your issue is not with HAL customer service department.

[gregdude]

In today's economy using an agent is almost asking for trouble. I agree with the previous response, this is not a HAL issue it's an issue with the agent you selected to use. As soon as HAL started dealing directly with travel agent clients the agency would stop booking HAL cruises. You did the correct thing by trying to cancel your cruise with the agent, but given what you experienced so far you should have canceled the cruise and started over directly with HAL.

I hope things work out and that you enjoy your cruise without further incident.

[GOLDENBONNY]

I booked a 15 day Asian Cruise on Holland America with a travel agent that went AWOL for a number of months. I gather that he has had some personal issues. We are traveling with friends that recommended the agent. They admitted that his behavior seemed pretty lax and unusual over the last 6 months.

Even when he was on his game, he was none too careful. He booked my wife using someone else's first name, not even close to her's.

When I couldn't reach him, I contacted Holland America customer service. Each time they told me that because I had booked through an agent, I had to speak with the agent. They refused to help, even with my wife's name correction. After a few more calls to Holland America, an HA phone rep suggested that I try to call the agent one more time, and if I didn't reach him, to call back Holland America and ask for a supervisor.

I followed that advice, when I didn't raise the agent. The Holland America supervisor also would not help, and started quoting from their policy manual. This is the kind of thing that turns customers into real detractors.

I finally got the agent's attention after my credit card was charged for airfare that I had not planned to purchase. I simply called and left a message to cancel the reservation, which did get his attention.

He has helped to get the reservation straight now. But, Holland America is levying penalties for changes, which have substantially increased the cost of this cruise. And, of course, because I booked through an agent, they simply have ignored my requests for help, and refer me back to the agent. I have never been so rudely or poorly treated by a travel company.

Sure, the problem started with the agent. I am not defending the agent, but the issues could have been resolved months ago if Holland America had spent a moment speaking with me. Typically, cruise lines try to help their customers. It is there reputation, not the travel agent's that is tarnished.

This is not my first cruise. I have sailed on Windstar, Celebrity and other lines. It is my first time on Holland America. And, it is the first time that I have had cruise line nightmare, even before I have boarded the ship.

Any ideas on how I might get through to someone at Holland America that cares about their customers? Do they have a customer Ombudsman? Or, is Holland America a cruise line that I should stay away from, one that doesn't care about their customer experience?


no cruise line would talk to you if you book through agent:(

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

Unfortunately, but true, if you book through an agent, you have to deal directly with the agent. Policy for all cruiselines. That's why it is important to know your agent and its reputation. I would not use an online agent unless I knew a lot about them. You may save money but you may get a lot of headaches. Sometimes it is wiser to deal directly with the Cruiseline even if it costs more. Sad to say, you often get what you pay for.

[the2ofus]

I'm sure the OP was very frustrated with the TA and grasping at straws to get someone to listen and act. However, the transaction as several have stated was with the TA and not the cruiseline.

It seems to me that there were other avenues to pursue. First a check with the BBB and a complaint filed. Second, if this agent belonged to any of the professional associations such as CLIA a letter of complaint should have been sent to them. Third, I'd have been a lot quicker to protest a charge on the credit card since the client was not receiving the service they had paid for. Also, a visit to another TA requesting a transfer of the booking to that agent would have resulted in a solution to the problem. Lots of other avenues, so why complain that the cruiseline no-interference policy was to blame.

[StartrainDD]

DMProf: You wrote: "Holland America is levying penalties for changes"

I am not an expert but if the charges are "Legit" it seems the agent should pick these up for you if the agent is the root cause.

The other scenario is that HAL could waive the charges. Have you tried to talk to a CS Manager about this?

[jhannah]

Typically, cruise lines try to help their customers. It is there reputation, not the travel agent's that is tarnished. Your ire is severely misplaced. It is your travel agent who is the customer service culprit here ... not Holland America.

As stated, no cruise line will discuss the booking with you unless you have booked directly with them. If they did, the left hand wouldn't know what the right hand was doing, and things could get ugly in a hurry.

I hope you're seriously looking for another TA.

[sail7seas]

I'm sure the OP was very frustrated with the TA and grasping at straws to get someone to listen and act. However, the transaction as several have stated was with the TA and not the cruiseline.

It seems to me that there were other avenues to pursue. First a check with the BBB and a complaint filed. Second, if this agent belonged to any of the professional associations such as CLIA a letter of complaint should have been sent to them. Third, I'd have been a lot quicker to protest a charge on the credit card since the client was not receiving the service they had paid for. Also, a visit to another TA requesting a transfer of the booking to that agent would have resulted in a solution to the problem. Lots of other avenues, so why complain that the cruiseline no-interference policy was to blame.

I agree most of OP's upset with HAL is probably result of frustration with TA.

I don't think a customer can simply transfer a booking to another TA. Don't you need to get permission from the existing agent to transfer to a new one.
OP can't get TA to respond to calls.

I would go through Credit Card Company and cancel booking, assuming it is within time limit that charge can be disputed. After cancelling charge to credit card (pray OP did not pay this company cash or check), I would send notice Certified Return Receipt advising TA that cruise is cancelled.

Then rebook directly with HAL.

[IRL_Joanie]

I sure hope the OP comes back with more in depth information such as when he and friends are going on their cruise, how long ago they booked it...

But I have a feeling this is a post and run or what ever it is called because for someone who has only posted this one time, he sure knew what Tags to put in at the bottom so that the robots will definitely find this thread.

I just discovered the power of the tags 2 weeks ago, and yet he has the following as his tags:

booking (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/tags.php?tag=booking), customer relations (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/tags.php?tag=customer+relations), customer service (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/tags.php?tag=customer+service), holland america (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/tags.php?tag=holland+america), ombudsman (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/tags.php?tag=ombudsman)

Joanie

[dawcruiser]

Am I correct in my thinking? A person can transfer his booking to Holland America can't he?

Don

[pms4104]

Am I correct in my thinking? A person can transfer his booking to Holland America can't he?

Don
It is way easier to transfer a booking from HAL to a T/A. For the reverse, I believe that the agent must agree to release the booking and, therefore, lose all of his commission. So, a travel agent may not be particularly agreeable to do so.

[dmprof]

I have read a lot of your posts. Some good advice.

Most of you seem ready to defend Holland America. Not so quick.

Holland America's response is a policy decision, not a legal one. Airlines, hotels, rent-a-car companies, and other cruise lines handle customer concerns very differently. All work under similar agreements with travel agents. Sorry, that's a defense that does not hold up under scrutiny.

Do you honestly believe that Holland America could not change my wife's first name on the reservation without violating some agreement with the agent? It's not the same first name on her passport. She would be denied travel if that were not corrected. It is inconceivable that HA can defend this in a post 9-11 world, where everything has to be 100% accurate.

So far I have not blamed anyone for anything. It is not the travel agent that is charging me additional fees, but Holland America. So I have naturally tried to resolve it with them. Sorry, stone walled. I admit that frustrates me. But, it frustrates me with Holland America, not the agent.

I have not gotten very far with the agent to now, so why would I expect it to be any different? That's not a very helpful avenue.

Cancel the cruise, even for a minute? If any of you are married or have a significant other, you are aware what announcing that type of unilateral decision would bring.

So, I remain a detractor of Holland America's. Unhappy even before I have sailed.

[knitlady037]

No one jumped down his throat for trying to contact HAL. That is what I would have tried first also. When he was told it was a company policy that they cannot deal with you if you booked with an agent, he posted an unfair rant about HAL customer service. Their hands are tied in this matter as every other cruise line's would be in this case.

[Jemima]

How does OP know that the penalty charges are coming from HAL? These could possibly be change charges from the TA. Did OP receive HAL's booking confirmation and any additional change confirmations? These would have told OP right away that the name was wrong and unwanted air charges were included. The revised confirmations would also show any changes including price changes.

[pms4104]

Perhaps it's time to work up the foodchain at your T/A's office ... someone there in management should be able to clean up this booking and agree to absorb any change fees assessed by HAL. If you are within the penalty phase, it would be normal for fees to be assessed even for a name change ... and, since your quasi-AWOL T/A screwed up from the get-go, he should absorb those amounts. tho that $$$ likely will reduce his commission substantially. A name change, to all but this goofball of a T/A, would seem to be a change in passengers ... and, yes, there's a fee for that after the final payment date has come and gone.

As others here have indicated, if you are working thru a T/A, no cruiseline will speak directly with any passenger on the specifics related to your booking. That very likely is covered in HAL's contractual agreement with agents selling its cruises.

While you may not be happy at this time with HAL ... personally, I would be more hacked off at that T/A. Hopefully, you will not use him again in the future.

[irishjim]

So sorry you cant get HAL to sort this mess ,but really your beef is with this dumb Ta.

[Zeta3]

I'm confused. Yes I understand Holland America may be charging change fees to change the name on the booking. From what you are saying the TA made the booking with the incorrect name so the TA should be covering the cost for the required change. If HAL made the error than the TA should be working to get it changed at no cost. All in all it is your TA who is dropping the ball here left and right. I do understand your frustration. It seems as though HAL considers the name change as a cancelation/rebooking so maybe you can work with them to do the rebooking directly with HAL, although you will probably then have to pay teh change fee yourself.

Good luck, I hope something works out quickly and satisfactorily for you.

[Jade13]

I

I would go through Credit Card Company and cancel booking, assuming it is within time limit that charge can be disputed. After cancelling charge to credit card (pray OP did not pay this company cash or check), I would send notice Certified Return Receipt advising TA that cruise is cancelled.

Then rebook directly with HAL.

I would do the same based on the fact OP's wife wasn't even booked on the cruise!

To the OP - how much are the fees, and OMG to book airfare without your knowledge. How was that done and refunded.

[IRL_Joanie]

I have read a lot of your posts. Some good advice.

Most of you seem ready to defend Holland America. Not so quick.

Holland America's response is a policy decision, not a legal one. Airlines, hotels, rent-a-car companies, and other cruise lines handle customer concerns very differently. All work under similar agreements with travel agents. Sorry, that's a defense that does not hold up under scrutiny.

Do you honestly believe that Holland America could not change my wife's first name on the reservation without violating some agreement with the agent? It's not the same first name on her passport. She would be denied travel if that were not corrected. It is inconceivable that HA can defend this in a post 9-11 world, where everything has to be 100% accurate.

So far I have not blamed anyone for anything. It is not the travel agent that is charging me additional fees, but Holland America. So I have naturally tried to resolve it with them. Sorry, stone walled. I admit that frustrates me. But, it frustrates me with Holland America, not the agent.

I have not gotten very far with the agent to now, so why would I expect it to be any different? That's not a very helpful avenue.

Cancel the cruise, even for a minute? If any of you are married or have a significant other, you are aware what announcing that type of unilateral decision would bring.

So, I remain a detractor of Holland America's. Unhappy even before I have sailed.




Sorry dmprof for my questioning of your original post in the slightest bit! But we have had posters come on 1 time only and their one and only post is always anti-HAL.

My apologies for being skeptical at your first post.

I cannot imagine the frustrations you must be going through or have gone through over the cruise.

I hope you will keep us updated as to how things change for the better. And believe me, they probably will.

We have a dear CC member named Kween Karen who went through something similar to yours. Her TA literally nearly screwed her out of thousands of $$ and she did not find out until after she'd made her final payment for her Dream Cruise (which she is now in 29 of a 67 day Grand Voyage.)

She was able to work with HAL and get things fixed, but for quite awhile it looked really bad for her and her money.

Hang in there and keep us posted please??

I think the name change request has to be made with formal documentation since 9-11 and may be a policy for most industries now.

Joanie

[dmprof]

Yes, I am booked on the Volendam, Nov 21, 2009, Singapore - Sydney.

I booked in March. This is not a last minute, super saver cruise. It's darned expensive (So is the penalty.) And, it's another reason that I expected better attention from Holland America.

No, my travel agent is not bankrupt. However, I see no value in naming him. As I mentioned in my first post, he is going through some personal issues. He's a one person show, no food chain to climb, no one to speak with above him. My bad for choosing him.

Yes, I can see how you could argue that the my real issues is the travel agent. But he is acting as an agent of Holland America. When he became unresponsive, that left me with one option. Only the TA and HAL are stakeholders. I doubt that I will see any additional help from him.

Do I know that Holland America is really charging me cancellations fees, and not the agent? So long as Holland America won't talk with me, I won't know anything for sure.

Yes, this is my first post on Cruise Critic. It is the first time in years that I have been involved in a situation where an organization has shown such a low regard for customers. When I have had an issue, it has been quickly and quietly resolved. This issue with Holland America has gone on for months. With a quick resolution, I have become an advocate of the organization involved, not a detractor as I am now of Holland America.

Yes, my opinion is informed. I know how to use tags, to write headlines and body copy that will get picked up by search engines. I write, speak, teach and work in digital and customer marketing. I consult with companies on how to create more customer value. HAL has given me a great case study on what not to do!

I worked for an airline for 10 years, so I have some knowledge of travel agency agreements. And, I have had travel clients, including one of the large online travel agencies.

Don't be misled. Not speaking directly with customers is a policy decision by Holland America. It is not a contractual issue. Yes, I gather that some, not all, cruise lines may say the same thing. Isn't HAL owned by the same company that owns Carnival, Costa, Cunard, P&O, Princess, Seabourn and others? No surprise, then.

I love travel, and do it constantly for business, and I have seen and experienced how top travel organizations treat customers (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc.)

No, I am not a newbie cruiser. I have cruised on Oceania, Celebrity, Windstar, etc. I have cruised in the Caribbean, Europe, across the Atlantic, around South America, through the Panama Canal, etc. This is my first experience with Holland America. It is likely my last.

None of this changes the facts. They remain the same.

[momatibm]

Don't be misled. Not speaking directly with customers is a policy decision by Holland America. It is not a contractual issue. Yes, I gather that some, not all, cruise lines may say the same thing. Isn't HAL owned by the same company that owns Carnival, Costa, Cunard, P&O, Princess, Seabourn and others? No surprise, then.

Since I book through HAL directly, they always talk to me -- if I had a TA, that wasn't responding for 6 months -- my lawyer would be involved no matter what the 'personal' issues were. I can't afford to pay money for 'nothing'.

[IRL_Joanie]

I'm confused. Yes I understand Holland America may be charging change fees to change the name on the booking. From what you are saying the TA made the booking with the incorrect name so the TA should be covering the cost for the required change. If HAL made the error than the TA should be working to get it changed at no cost. All in all it is your TA who is dropping the ball here left and right. I do understand your frustration. It seems as though HAL considers the name change as a cancelation/rebooking so maybe you can work with them to do the rebooking directly with HAL, although you will probably then have to pay teh change fee yourself.

Good luck, I hope something works out quickly and satisfactorily for you.


deleted by Joanie

[pms4104]

I am curious as to the amount and reasons for the additional fees. Would you mind sharing with us? Thx.

[momatibm]

Yes, I am booked on the Volendam, Nov 21, 2009, Singapore - Sydney.

I booked in March. This is not a last minute, super saver cruise. It's darned expensive (So is the penalty.) And, it's another reason that I expected better attention from Holland America.

No, my travel agent is not bankrupt. However, I see no value in naming him. As I mentioned in my first post, he is going through some personal issues. He's a one person show, no food chain to climb, no one to speak with above him. My bad for choosing him.

Yes, I can see how you could argue that the my real issues is the travel agent. But he is acting as an agent of Holland America. When he became unresponsive, that left me with one option. Only the TA and HAL are stakeholders. I doubt that I will see any additional help from him.

Do I know that Holland America is really charging me cancellations fees, and not the agent? So long as Holland America won't talk with me, I won't know anything for sure.

Yes, this is my first post on Cruise Critic. It is the first time in years that I have been involved in a situation where an organization has shown such a low regard for customers. When I have had an issue, it has been quickly and quietly resolved. This issue with Holland America has gone on for months. With a quick resolution, I have become an advocate of the organization involved, not a detractor as I am now of Holland America.

Yes, my opinion is informed. I know how to use tags, to write headlines and body copy that will get picked up by search engines. I write, speak, teach and work in digital and customer marketing. I consult with companies on how to create more customer value. HAL has given me a great case study on what not to do!

I worked for an airline for 10 years, so I have some knowledge of travel agency agreements. And, I have had travel clients, including one of the large online travel agencies.

Don't be misled. Not speaking directly with customers is a policy decision by Holland America. It is not a contractual issue. Yes, I gather that some, not all, cruise lines may say the same thing. Isn't HAL owned by the same company that owns Carnival, Costa, Cunard, P&O, Princess, Seabourn and others? No surprise, then.

I love travel, and do it constantly for business, and I have seen and experienced how top travel organizations treat customers (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc.)

No, I am not a newbie cruiser. I have cruised on Oceania, Celebrity, Windstar, etc. I have cruised in the Caribbean, Europe, across the Atlantic, around South America, through the Panama Canal, etc. This is my first experience with Holland America. It is likely my last.

None of this changes the facts. They remain the same.

When you go online and try to do your online check in -- what is the result. HAL will also tell/inform you if your payment isn't registered -- as we know from Kween Karen.

[sail7seas]

Yes, I am booked on the Volendam, Nov 21, 2009, Singapore - Sydney.

I booked in March. This is not a last minute, super saver cruise. It's darned expensive (So is the penalty.) And, it's another reason that I expected better attention from Holland America.

No, my travel agent is not bankrupt. However, I see no value in naming him. As I mentioned in my first post, he is going through some personal issues. He's a one person show, no food chain to climb, no one to speak with above him. My bad for choosing him.

Yes, I can see how you could argue that the my real issues is the travel agent. But he is acting as an agent of Holland America. When he became unresponsive, that left me with one option. Only the TA and HAL are stakeholders. I doubt that I will see any additional help from him.

Do I know that Holland America is really charging me cancellations fees, and not the agent? So long as Holland America won't talk with me, I won't know anything for sure.

Yes, this is my first post on Cruise Critic. It is the first time in years that I have been involved in a situation where an organization has shown such a low regard for customers. When I have had an issue, it has been quickly and quietly resolved. This issue with Holland America has gone on for months. With a quick resolution, I have become an advocate of the organization involved, not a detractor as I am now of Holland America.

Yes, my opinion is informed. I know how to use tags, to write headlines and body copy that will get picked up by search engines. I write, speak, teach and work in digital and customer marketing. I consult with companies on how to create more customer value. HAL has given me a great case study on what not to do!

I worked for an airline for 10 years, so I have some knowledge of travel agency agreements. And, I have had travel clients, including one of the large online travel agencies.

Don't be misled. Not speaking directly with customers is a policy decision by Holland America. It is not a contractual issue. Yes, I gather that some, not all, cruise lines may say the same thing. Isn't HAL owned by the same company that owns Carnival, Costa, Cunard, P&O, Princess, Seabourn and others? No surprise, then.

I love travel, and do it constantly for business, and I have seen and experienced how top travel organizations treat customers (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc.)

No, I am not a newbie cruiser. I have cruised on Oceania, Celebrity, Windstar, etc. I have cruised in the Caribbean, Europe, across the Atlantic, around South America, through the Panama Canal, etc. This is my first experience with Holland America. It is likely my last.

None of this changes the facts. They remain the same.


While we can see you do not like HAL's policy about not speaking with guests who have a TA, it is their policy and was not created brand new for you.

You are frustrated and want action but HAL needs to keep their TA's happy more than they need to keep you happy..... to speak plainly.

TA's are responsible for sending business, week after week, year after year. You may or may not ever return. They rather lose the cruiser than the TA, in my opinion.

Many, many times posters have come here and complained HAL will not speak with them because they have a TA. It's fact of life and defintely NOT unique to HAL. It is pretty common in the industry.

You seem protective of your TA and that is admiral but it is clear TA is NOT protective of you and your money.

He has made some bad moves and is making them worse by the day.

It is not my job to defend HAL and if I thought they were mistreating you, I would say so. I see that they are acting in the way (almost) all cruise lines do when a guest tries to bypass their TA.

Wishing you very good luck and best wishes it works out....and soon.

[knitlady037]

What type of cancellation fees are you talking about. At 3 weeks before sail date you cruise should be paid in full and their is a severe penalty for cancellation within this phase. Do you have any receipts with cruise info showing cabin info booking # etc.? I received this info within 5 minutes of booking with my agent. If I call or e-mail him with a request and do no receive an answer within a business day I try again. If you used someone that was unavailable for months, you should have known something was fishy and cancelled your booking and rebooked with someone that was responsive to your needs. There are no penaltys for cancelling and rebooking if you do this before final payment is due. If you have as much experience as you state, you should be more aware and proactive. There is a thread going on now about a large online agency that shut down and left customers without final payments being transferred to the cruise lines. They received e=mails today stating that they should try and fight the charges with their credit card companies. Many have found that their cruises have been cancelled due to lack of TA forwarding paynebts they made. They were offered discounts if they paid in full at the time of booking. So even though they have receipts showing cruise was paid in full, the cruise lines never received the money.

[Down-Unders]

I booked a 15 day Asian Cruise on Holland America with a travel agent that went AWOL for a number of months. I gather that he has had some personal issues. We are traveling with friends that recommended the agent. They admitted that his behavior seemed pretty lax and unusual over the last 6 months.

Even when he was on his game, he was none too careful. He booked my wife using someone else's first name, not even close to her's.

When I couldn't reach him, I contacted Holland America customer service. Each time they told me that because I had booked through an agent, I had to speak with the agent. They refused to help, even with my wife's name correction. After a few more calls to Holland America, an HA phone rep suggested that I try to call the agent one more time, and if I didn't reach him, to call back Holland America and ask for asupervisor.

I followed that advice, when I didn't raise the agent. The Holland America supervisor also would not help, and started quoting from their policy manual. This is the kind of thing that turns customers into real detractors.

I finally got the agent's attention after my credit card was charged for airfare that I had not planned to purchase. I simply called and left a message to cancel the reservation, which did get his attention.

He has helped to get the reservation straight now. But, Holland America is levying penalties for changes, which have substantially increased the cost of this cruise. And, of course, because I booked through an agent, they simply have ignored my requests for help, and refer me back to the agent. I have never been so rudely or poorly treated by a travel company.

Sure, the problem started with the agent. I am not defending the agent, but the issues could have been resolved months ago if Holland America had spent a moment speaking with me. Typically, cruise lines try to help their customers. It is there reputation, not the travel agent's that is tarnished.

This is not my first cruise. I have sailed on Windstar, Celebrity and other lines. It is my first time on Holland America. And, it is the first time that I have had cruise line nightmare, even before I have boarded the ship.

Any ideas on how I might get through to someone at Holland America that cares about their customers? Do they have a customer Ombudsman? Or, is Holland America a cruise line that I should stay away from, one that doesn't care about their customer experience?



HAL will not talk to you if you use a agent, I would report the agent to HAL in a detailed letter, and according to where you live there would be a Government Agency that handles complaints regarding travel agents.

[Copper10-8]

Dmprof; you're now less than a month away from your Volendam cruise so you don't have a heck of a lot of time left. Less than a month away from sailing also brings HAL's cancellation policies in the equation as you have found out. Yes, your one-man TA has screwed up, royally, and you're left in the creek without a paddle. Yes, you're p/o'ed at HAL but it's not their fault that your TA dropped the ball big time! It is prety clear from your writing that you don't expect anything from your TA so that leaves HAL who has a policy they're abiding by and that has frustrated you, understandable!

I would contact HAL tomorow and ask to speak to a supervisor, preferably a manager and I would lay all my broken egs out on the table. Maybe it's not time for begging yet but it's getting darn close. Ask them to put themselves in your position and request what they can do to help you. Explain to them that you want to sail on Volendam and that you will be out a considerabe amount of $$$ due to no fault of your own (you haven't even talked about air fare to/from Singapore/Sydney which, I'm sure is not a day at the beach either. Tell them this is your very first HAL cruise and request if there is anything they can do from their end. Good luck to you; hope things will work out!

[jcrandle]

An earlier post stated that HAL's position on not dealing directly with TA booked clients is a policy decision, not a contractual issue. I wouldn't be so quick to state that, unless you have viewed the agency agreement that HAL has with their agents. While I don't know, I suspect that the agreement contains some protection for agents against HAL taking certain actions without the agent's permission. Perhaps some of the TAs on the boards could enlighten us.

[Jade13]

Yes, I am booked on the Volendam, Nov 21, 2009, Singapore - Sydney.

I booked in March. This is not a last minute, super saver cruise. It's darned expensive (So is the penalty.) And, it's another reason that I expected better attention from Holland America.

No, my travel agent is not bankrupt. However, I see no value in naming him. As I mentioned in my first post, he is going through some personal issues. He's a one person show, no food chain to climb, no one to speak with above him. My bad for choosing him.

Yes, I can see how you could argue that the my real issues is the travel agent. But he is acting as an agent of Holland America. When he became unresponsive, that left me with one option. Only the TA and HAL are stakeholders. I doubt that I will see any additional help from him.

Do I know that Holland America is really charging me cancellations fees, and not the agent? So long as Holland America won't talk with me, I won't know anything for sure.

Yes, this is my first post on Cruise Critic. It is the first time in years that I have been involved in a situation where an organization has shown such a low regard for customers. When I have had an issue, it has been quickly and quietly resolved. This issue with Holland America has gone on for months. With a quick resolution, I have become an advocate of the organization involved, not a detractor as I am now of Holland America.

Yes, my opinion is informed. I know how to use tags, to write headlines and body copy that will get picked up by search engines. I write, speak, teach and work in digital and customer marketing. I consult with companies on how to create more customer value. HAL has given me a great case study on what not to do!

I worked for an airline for 10 years, so I have some knowledge of travel agency agreements. And, I have had travel clients, including one of the large online travel agencies.

Don't be misled. Not speaking directly with customers is a policy decision by Holland America. It is not a contractual issue. Yes, I gather that some, not all, cruise lines may say the same thing. Isn't HAL owned by the same company that owns Carnival, Costa, Cunard, P&O, Princess, Seabourn and others? No surprise, then.

I love travel, and do it constantly for business, and I have seen and experienced how top travel organizations treat customers (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc.)

No, I am not a newbie cruiser. I have cruised on Oceania, Celebrity, Windstar, etc. I have cruised in the Caribbean, Europe, across the Atlantic, around South America, through the Panama Canal, etc. This is my first experience with Holland America. It is likely my last.

None of this changes the facts. They remain the same.

I think you can get on a 3 way call with HAL and the agent. What is the amount in change fees you are being charged?

[sail7seas]

That would be great, Jade...... a three way conversation but apparently, OP cannot get TA on the phone.

[Bescotti]

I'm booked on HAL's 14 day Alaskan cruise next year and paid a hefty deposit (found out recently it was more than HAL actually required) to my bricks and mortar TA whom I've been dealing with for years.

For whatever reason (not sure if it is franchise or lease problem) they have 'temporarily' closed up shop with all paperwork being sent to an TA some suburbs away from where I live.

After reading about KweenKaren's problems I decided for peace of mind that I would deal direct with HAL's Australian agent, and after explaining the situation to them they are arranging to take over the booking directly - as from today. They couldn't have been more helpful!

[dmprof]

Thanks again to those that have offered constructive advice. Also, thanks to those who have taken back their concerns that I just wanted to vent about HAL, and not contribute to the discussion.

I am not trying to be protective of the Travel Agent. He is the nexus of the issue. But, he has pretty much checked out. Unavailable. Not responsive. If I could get his attention, I wouldn't be in this situation in the first place.

I hear some of you saying buyer beware. Okay, I won't use this travel agent again. This doesn't change my situation. I am still going to be out money that HAL is charging as part of cancellation fees for something I did not authorize in the first place. And, they won't have any dialog about it. That is truly unprecedented in my experience.

Some background. I booked the cruise but wanted to do my own airfare. In March I was told by the agent that I had a few choices, including an option one that was return airfare only. The TA did not book what was agreed upon. He denied the existence of the return only airfare option, despite having an email from him from March that explained how it worked.

I realized that I did not get what I was expecting when my credit card was charged the final payment by HAL (Not the agent, but HAL charged my card) for the final payment. It was thousands more than I had expected.

After umpteen calls and emails, and finally asking him to cancel the trip, the agent sent me an email with revised fees. Everything changed. So, for cancelling airfare through HAL (that I did not agree to) I have been charged a cancellation fee by HAL. And, because I did not take the airfare, the cruise fare went up by more than a thousand a person. Nice.

I get that I should be mad at the travel agent. But, that get's me no where. He doesn't answer emails or phone. I am lucky I am at this point... And, no thanks to HAL, who simply deflected every call. I started calling them weeks before my card was charged, as I could get no response from the TA.

This is the heart of my frustration. Can't get any help from TA. And, HAL takes the position that they won't talk to me. Please, no more "the agent is responsible" posts. This is pretty far beyond that.

I have tried to get help from HAL, a company whose ship I will be stuck on for 15 days. If this is the treatment they offer before the cruise, what should I expect on it? I am getting to the point where I don't look forward to it. That's not how vacations should be. Why should anyone spend money with a company that doesn't care about them?

I have written these posts to see if anyone has insight into what my approach to getting some help might be. So far, the collective wisdom seems to be "Bad situation, but your stuck with it."

Put yourself in my shoes. That is not a good place to be.

[dmprof]

Dmprof; you're now less than a month away from your Volendam cruise so you don't have a heck of a lot of time left. Less than a month away from sailing also brings HAL's cancellation policies in the equation as you have found out. Yes, your one-man TA has screwed up, royally, and you're left in the creek without a paddle. Yes, you're p/o'ed at HAL but it's not their fault that your TA dropped the ball big time! It is prety clear from your writing that you don't expect anything from your TA so that leaves HAL who has a policy they're abiding by and that has frustrated you, understandable!

I would contact HAL tomorow and ask to speak to a supervisor, preferably a manager and I would lay all my broken egs out on the table. Maybe it's not time for begging yet but it's getting darn close. Ask them to put themselves in your position and request what they can do to help you. Explain to them that you want to sail on Volendam and that you will be out a considerabe amount of $$$ due to no fault of your own (you haven't even talked about air fare to/from Singapore/Sydney which, I'm sure is not a day at the beach either. Tell them this is your very first HAL cruise and request if there is anything they can do from their end. Good luck to you; hope things will work out!
John, thanks. Your's is the best advice that I have gotten.

I tried speaking with a supervisor, who quoted policy right out of the book. I will try speaking with a manager.

Thank you for the thoughtful advice.

[Two@Sea]

... I love travel, and do it constantly for business, and I have seen and experienced how top travel organizations treat customers (e.g. Cathay Pacific, Singapore Air, Four Seasons, Ritz Carlton, etc.)

No, I am not a newbie cruiser. I have cruised on Oceania, Celebrity, Windstar, etc. I have cruised in the Caribbean, Europe, across the Atlantic, around South America, through the Panama Canal, etc. This is my first experience with Holland America. It is likely my last.

None of this changes the facts. They remain the same.

Sorry, but it seems an experienced traveler/cruiser such as yourself would have known the ramifications of the final payment date, and not procrastinated to such an extent that cancellation and name change penalties would accrue.

When your TA did not respond in a timely manner, YOU allowed him to place you in your current situation. There were actions you know you should have taken much sooner. Your natural reaction was to then ask HAL to intercede on your behalf. Bluntly, what makes your extended sailing any more important than my seven day cruise, and why should HAL bend their normal business practices just for you?

I sincerely hope you will be able to enjoy your cruise.

[Two@Sea]

dmprof ~ My posting crossed paths with your further explanation of your situation with the TA. I apologize for my assumption that you had not been proactive in your dealing with him/her.

[nu2sea]

I have read a lot of your posts. Some good advice.

Most of you seem ready to defend Holland America. Not so quick.

Holland America's response is a policy decision, not a legal one. Airlines, hotels, rent-a-car companies, and other cruise lines handle customer concerns very differently. All work under similar agreements with travel agents. Sorry, that's a defense that does not hold up under scrutiny.



[/FONT]

Celebrity Cruise Lines did exactly the same thing when I had a problem with my TA. I had a very similar problem and had to keep going up the chain of command. They absolutely could not change a reservation that they had not made. They sign contracts with travel agents so it probably is a legal issue.

[the2ofus]

It seems to me that the OP's best option for fast action right now is to contact the consumer affairs staff in the office of his state's attorney general. If anyone can work with HAL and the TA and get some kind of resolution it should be the state AG.

Certainly there is adequate proof of his original contract with the TA and of the TA's mis-handling which has resulted in overcharges and penalties not of his doing. It is nice that he is protective of the TA, but if that person is truly a professional he/she would certainly have worked out a back-up agreement with another TA to cover during this stressful time in their personal life, even if it cost a commission.

Have only dealt with a state AG once (Minnesota) on a sales fraud issue but the communication was great and the resolution was swift.

[Jemima]

HAL sends (e-mails) a confirmation to the TA at the time of booking and also a confirmation copy for the TA to give to the customer. Any changes such as adding or deleting transfers or airfare have a revised confirmation. I've made changes before final payment and there has never been a charge.
OP, did your TA provide you with these confirmations and did you read them? I'm guessing that the TA added airfare to your booking. If so, the TA should have provided you with your copy of HAL's confirmation. You should also have checked the most recent confirmation before making your final payment. HAL does the booking based on what the TA tells them and issues the booking confirmations to the TA (one for him & one for you). So, when HAL looks at your booking they are likely seeing air that was added early on, know confirmations were sent and then note that you paid for that on or before final payment. If I'm understanding this correctly, the problem is with your TA, not HAL.

Note: I'm not a travel agent and never have been, but I've done enough cruises with HAL to know how the confirmations etc. work. It is unfortunate that you've ended up with penalties for air you didn't intend to book. Since you are dealing with a one-person agency, you probably won't get any help there.

[tooalto]

As a former TA, I can tell the OP that it IS standard procedure throughout the industry, be it air, hotel, tour or cruise, that a client who has booked with a TA cannot then deal directly with the provider. He or she must work through the TA, for all the reasons stated here. I had a serious problem with an online air supplier this summer. When they refused to work with me, I simply went to their local BBB and received my refund within a couple days. This agency had neglected to tell me about a flight cancellation and the airline in question could not do anything other that confirm that the flight was indeed cancelled.

This rule also protects the client. Suppose one was involved in a messy divorce, child custody or other issue. An angry partner could call the supplier and make things go south very quickly. This issue is not with HAL just as mine was not with the airline. It is strictly with the TA. Assuming they are legit, they must have insurance for errors and omissions.

[happy cruzer]

This OP wants "special" treatment. He picked a bad TA and somehow ended up not fixing the problem until cancellation penalty time.

HAL has a policy in place that utilizes TAs. Their policy to communicate only with the booking entity the TA or the the cruiser if they booked directly.

As another poster mentioned, once they have a booking through a TA they talk to them to keep it simple like in a divorce case, etc. Can you imagine a simple think like a name change. The cruiser calls says the TA got the name wrong. The TA is out of the loop and sees the name change and calls HAL back and says hey change that name back. Then the cruiser calls as says HAL, you idiot, I changed that name put it baack to the change. The ta calls....... Just one example, but that is why it is what it is.

OP has waited until there are few options. As an experienced cruiser, he knew all the deadlines and details about changes and cancellations. Many of us have had a bad experience with a TA and have learned to bail out of the relationship in time to rebook with another TA or book directly.

I'm thinking that he needs to pay the change fees because they are most likely legimate. The reservation was either messed up from the beginning or changed at his request which will result in changes fees either way whether the change was a TAs fault or not. HAL is paying the TA a commission so that they don't have to deal with the OP.

I think he should continue to try to get a sympathic ear at HAL. However the entire storm is someone's fault and not HALs. Making a big mess and then blaming a company's customer service for not cleaning it up at no charge is having your cake and eating it too.

Good luck working something out at this late date.

PS I just lost $75 to a TA for using them to book and then having to cancel for personal reasons. If I had booked directly no cancellation fee. But I'm not blaming anyone but myself.

[IRL_Joanie]

.... I have written these posts to see if anyone has insight into what my approach to getting some help might be. So far, the collective wisdom seems to be "Bad situation, but your stuck with it."

Put yourself in my shoes. That is not a good place to be.

dmprof,

I am so sorry that you are going through these major problems!! To say it is an unfortunate experience, is an understatement! I cannot fathom what I would do or feel if it were happening to me.

All I can say is that I hope that this does not ruin your vacation completely. HAL is a great cruise line, though right now to you it might not seem so.

Please, I ask with all sincerity, that you keep us up to date as to the issue getting resolved more to your satisfation, and as to how your vacation goes.

Joanie

[dmprof]

I can report no resolution...

Many of you seem to think that I want special treatment. My frustration is getting stone walled. I want someone to discuss my situation with at Holland America. I'd like a favorable resolution, but I have no expectation of it. I want some dialog, and a fair hearing. That's not special treatment. Holland America's conduct is unconscionable.

I again will take issue with the wisdom that not talking with customers of travel agents is status quo in the travel business. This is a myth. Customer service champions like Ritz-Carlton, Four Seasons hotels, Southwest Airlines, etc. will bend over backwards to listen to a customer and see if they can help. Do they solve every issue? No. But they listen and try.

I am beginning to believe that Holland America's actions signal an anti-customer culture. I want to do business with an organization that demonstrates that they really care. Had I any inkling of Holland America's view of customers before I booked, I would never had done it.

Compare that to the culture of LL Bean (No, I don't work for LL Bean nor are they one of my clients.) Here's a quote from their founder:

"sell good merchandise at a reasonable profit, treat your customers like human beings, and they will always come back for more."

I just want to be treated like a human being.

Instead, just a few weeks away from this trip, I am faced with the future of 15 nights on a cruise with an unresponsive, complacent cruise line. And, those are the nicest things that I can say about Holland America. This is not my idea of a good time.

[pms4104]

Just a thought ... perhaps if you were to call HAL, request a Manager, and tell him that since your T/A has gone AWOL you would like to transfer the booking to HAL and work out some issues directly with HAL. If that is at all possible, you might have an opportunity to square this situation away. Sure, the T/A will lose his commission ... but, except for screwing up your booking, what has he done for you? Yes, I recognize he is going thru some personal duress ... but if he knew he was unable to service his clients properly, the responsible thing for him to do would have been to sacrifice his commi$$ion and transfer the booking to another T/A who would follow thru for you.

[CowPrincess]

I am beginning to believe that Holland America's actions signal an anti-customer culture. I want to do business with an organization that demonstrates that they really care. Had I any inkling of Holland America's view of customers before I booked, I would never had done it.

I've never dealt with ANY organization that can equal or surpass HAL in customer service. I have been treated as a valued customer ANY time a problem arose. They've worked outside their guidelines when warranted, and have done everything in their power to resolve ANY problems I've had.

What EXACTLY do you want HAL to do for you? Maybe someone here can point you to the right department to get a resolution. (I'm going back to re-read your original post to see if you specifically state what it is you want HAL to do.)

[Jemima]

OP has ignored my question on the HAL guest confirmation(s). He seems concerned about the air which is says he didn't want. If the air was listed on the confirmation and he paid the final payment, then I don't see what complaint he has against HAL. He seems to want the air removed without penalty after final payment.

[Jemima]

---duplicate

[knitlady037]

The OP says he has bben trying to get his problems resolved for months. If that is so, he would have had more than enough time to transfer his booking to someone that could have helped. And the fact that his credit card was charge showed HAL does not mean it was charged by them. Mine shows the charge to HAL, but it is processed by my TA which it should be. Why is he protecting the TA that did him wrong and made him in incur all the extra charges he states he has to pay? On top of that the TA is getting a commision. There is alot more here than meets the eye. For some one that name drops all the hotels and other travel plans he has done, he is leaving out alot of details. Coming on a public forum and badmouthing a company is NOT the way to get them to help you.

[happy cruzer]

You do indeed want "special" treatment. HAL took your booking through a TA when they do that they pay a commission to the TA to have that one point of contact. You want them to negotiate with you. That would be "special". If you wanted to handle the booking and talk to HAL, you needed to book directly at some point either originally or by cancelling and rebooking. It's really simple and the way it works on every cruise line that I know of. It appears that you want them to pay the commission and work the booking with you??

[Nasmas]

I am pretty sure that HAL has contracts with their travel agents and they are forbidden from talking to you or anyone else that used a travel agent. That's why they pay them commissions. I used a travel agency before and HAL would never talk to me about anything. Then, when said agency went bankrupt, I booked thru HAL. They were very good to deal with. Always ready when we had questions or needed something else. I will continue to use them

[SandyMc]

dmprof - I am soooooo sorry you are going through this. We have sailed many lines and received excellent customer service on all of them but Celebrity. They provided us with the cruise from hell. :( However - I know that there are many ardent Celebrity supporters out there, just as you have discovered ardent HAL supporters. If nothing this bad has ever happened to you, it becomes very easy to be the defender.

I wish all of this were different for you and hope it will be resolved so that you can enjoy HAL and your cruise vacation. Hopefully you will find just the right Supervisor to really listen. If only one of them would offer to contact the TA to pull your reservation from him! Good luck with this - it is a real mess!

[sapper1]

The OP got the same lack of sympathy on the "other" Cruise board as well. I don't know how many times he has to be told he is barking up the wrong tree. It seems he has a misplaced dislike for HAL and will not rest until he convinces everone who will listen.

Maybe he should contact the supervisor of the travel agency or the head office if it is a national company. They are the ones he should complain to and not HAL.

[sail7seas]

I think he said TA is a one man business.

[bepsf]

In today's economy using an agent is almost asking for trouble.


Talk about broad generalizations!

My TA is a franchisee with a large organization specializing in cruise sales, and I've NEVER had a better TA! Yes, there are some losers out there - but as a consumer, you have the power of the pocketbook:

Folks should know that they can easily make a change immediately upon these types of things occurring by getting the useless TA to release the reservation to the cruiseline and working with the line directly until such time that the OP finds a new TA who would better meet their needs.

I don't know what the OP's timeline is, but if they're outside of their final payment - I'd investigate cancelling the entire cruise and starting from scratch directly with the line or with another TA: There will certainly be staterooms available and pricing might even be better.

[mrsltg]

I don't know what the OP's timeline is, but if they're outside of their final payment - I'd investigate cancelling the entire cruise and starting from scratch directly with the line or with another TA: There will certainly be staterooms available and pricing might even be better.

Apparently the OP is within weeks of his sailing. This is one of those "live and learn" scenarios and, unfortunately, it's working out to be somewhat pricey. The OP's anger and displeasure, however, are so misplaced it's almost unbelievable.

[mountainmare]

The OP has admitted that his TA is the one at fault--he is only asking for some help from HAL.
Didn't HAL go above and beyond to make sure that KweenKaren could go on her dream cruise. So it sems that the policy of leaving a customer out to dry because of TA problems depends on who takes the case--or is it linked to how long (and expensive) the trip is.
Anyway it does look like HAL has decided that the OP is not worth going the extra mile for--while KweenKaren was. I think they should recognize that everyone's cruise is a dreamcruise--and after the person has done everything possible to fix the problem on their own--and been able to document as much HAL should at least make an effort to assist.

[IRL_Joanie]

The OP has admitted that his TA is the one at fault--he is only asking for some help from HAL.
Didn't HAL go above and beyond to make sure that KweenKaren could go on her dream cruise. So it sems that the policy of leaving a customer out to dry because of TA problems depends on who takes the case--or is it linked to how long (and expensive) the trip is.
Anyway it does look like HAL has decided that the OP is not worth going the extra mile for--while KweenKaren was. I think they should recognize that everyone's cruise is a dreamcruise--and after the person has done everything possible to fix the problem on their own--and been able to document as much HAL should at least make an effort to assist.


Actually, I am thinking it is the OP's attitude that may be precluding HAL from wanting to deal with him, on top of his TA issues.

Kween Karen most likely approached HAL with a can you help me attitude, not an attitude of demanding, which is what it appears this OP might have gone in with.

Just my opinion, but that is the way I think it might be.

If you come at me yelling and demanding satisfaction I am going to do my best to ignore you. If you came at me with a heartfelt plea for help and non demanding, I am going to bend over backwards for you.

Joanie

[HWH]

Actually, I am thinking it is the OP's attitude that may be precluding HAL from wanting to deal with him, on top of his TA issues.

Kween Karen most likely approached HAL with a can you help me attitude, not an attitude of demanding, which is what it appears this OP might have gone in with.

Just my opinion, but that is the way I think it might be.

If you come at me yelling and demanding satisfaction I am going to do my best to ignore you. If you came at me with a heartfelt plea for help and non demanding, I am going to bend over backwards for you.

Joanie


IIRC, it wasn't Karen who initiated the contact: it was HAL who first contacted Karen about a "potential agency issue". It seems that in that case, HAL had sufficient reason to sever its relationship with the agency, thereby freeing itself to contact pax like Karen who were represented by this agency. I guess OP's agency isn't on HAL's radar (yet), so in order to get some concrete help from HAL, OP will have to be exceedingly patient, calm, and creative as he works his way up the corporate food chain.

[mountainmare]

I agree with both posts above--
Lesson to all--if there is a problem, start calmly working your way up the food chain right away. Being calm and polite may get you some satisfaction.
I even got satisfaction from the cable company--it took time, every call I began with something like I know that you may not have the authority to help me, said who I had already talked to and continued--may I please talk with your superivisor.
People who work in customer service know that part of their job is going to be working with unhappy customers, I wish more companies would have the initial rep indicate that they can only do so much because of company guidelines--and offer to kick the customer up the ladder.

The OP is at a disadvantage because the TA is a small office--not a big corporation, the TA is not likely to be on HALs radar and the loss of its business is not a big deal to HAL. Also lets face it--one unhappy customer is not a big deal to HAL,especially when that customer booked through a very small TA who does not bring alot of business to HAL.

I hope the OP is able to have a wonderful trip inspite of the problems he is having now.

[CowPrincess]

I even got satisfaction from the cable company

:eek: I am in awe! :eek:

(and very, very impressed :) )

[gregdude]

There is no sense in continuing this thread. OP seems unwilling to listen to logic, unwilling to accept the reality of agents vs dealing directly with HAL, and wants something he is not entitled to get by trying to go around the TA that he selected. If he needs to call anyone it is the state consumer affairs office.

I really feel sorry for the people at the front desk of this ship!!!

Some cruise lines have been known to black listed chronic complainers, this may end up in that category.