You own HAL...

[uncialman]

Ok, so I admit that I stole this idea from another cruise board...

Let's say that you are the sole, lone, monarchial, controlling owner of HAL cruise lines (No board or others in a cabinet to answer to). What would you keep the same? What would you change? What would you get rid of?

My list:

Keep:

1. All the S and R class ships and their design in future ships of the fleet
2. The fantastic Indo/Phil. crew
3. The great sized cabins that we have on S and R class
4. The Wajang Theatre
5. The classic relaxed, sophisticated ambiance of HAL
6. The Yum-Yum man
7. ...it quiet at the pools, please :D
8. The SOE mattresses
9. The Java Cafe (and keep it free!)

Change/Get rid of:


1. The alternative dining policy - bring back free alt. dining
2. The tipping policy - bring back the old
3. Bring more dining room stewards back into the dining room
4. The loud music being played on the back of the Zuiderdam
5. Vista Class ships - send them to Costa or Carnival
6. Design new 65,000 ton ships in the Amsterdam/Rotterdam fashion
7. The music being played in public hallways - bring back the classics
8. Properly train the front desk and guest relations in customer care
9. Have a new chef revolutionize HAL dining
10. Offer an interactive TV in cabins

Just the opinion of a 35 year old frequent cruiser!

[x lindsay x]

9. The Java Cafe (and keep it free!)

I'm just wondering why so many people love the Java Cafe? Is it the atmosphere, the drinks, or something else I miss? If you want free/ not fancy coffee, hot chocolate, and tea why don't you just go up to the Lido and pick some up there? It's available at all times and it's free. I love the Windstar and don't mind paying for a beverage that someone makes for me that tastes far better than the over sweetened coffee drinks that come out of the machines in the Java Cafe.

I do agree with all the other things you want to keep, gotta love the quiet pools.

[uncialman]

I'm just wondering why so many people love the Java Cafe? Is it the atmosphere, the drinks, or something else I miss? If you want free/ not fancy coffee, hot chocolate, and tea why don't you just go up to the Lido and pick some up there? It's available at all times and it's free. I love the Windstar and don't mind paying for a beverage that someone makes for me that tastes far better than the over sweetened coffee drinks that come out of the machines in the Java Cafe.

I do agree with all the other things you want to keep, gotta love the quiet pools.

Hey Lindsay!

In previous years (only 3 years ago) HAL stated in their brochures "we offer all of this because we don't look at our passengers as our customers; we prefer to think of them as our guests."

The "all of this" was their "tipping not required" policy and some of the incredible touches such as free mochas, espressos etc. at the Java Cafe and free alternative dining. Those special little touches are what caused my wife and I to fall head over heels in love with HAL - we never had to whip out our room cards unless we were drinking. The HAL experience made the passengers that cruised aboard their vessels feel incredibly special.

On another note, I have only viewed cappacino machines on the Rotterdam Lido from my recollection. So, the only place to get specialty coffees was at the java cafe...

[HeatherInFlorida]

Uncialman, excellent list! I think it's too late for the Java Cafe, though ... it was gone on the Oosterdam.

And I have to admit I never did hear any loud music in the passageways or public areas and the Front Desk personnel were excellent on our ship.

But beyond that I'd go along with just about everything you said. Some of your suggestions would be way more important than others, but overall I think they're great.

I'd really like to take all my favorite stuff from HAL and blend it with my favorite stuff from Celebrity. That would be my "dreamline". The interactive TVs on Celebrity were great up to and including being able to punch in your own stock portfolio and see whether you should head home mid cruise:D .

[x lindsay x]

Uncialman-
Thanks for the explanation. As a newer cruiser it is hard for me to miss something that I never really had in the first place, I can understand how people can be upset when things, even small things, are taken away. Especially when those small things add up...

[uncialman]

Uncialman, excellent list! I think it's too late for the Java Cafe, though ... it was gone on the Oosterdam.

And I have to admit I never did hear any loud music in the passageways or public areas and the Front Desk personnel were excellent on our ship.

But beyond that I'd go along with just about everything you said. Some of your suggestions would be way more important than others, but overall I think they're great.

I'd really like to take all my favorite stuff from HAL and blend it with my favorite stuff from Celebrity. That would be my "dreamline". The interactive TVs on Celebrity were great up to and including being able to punch in your own stock portfolio and see whether you should head home mid cruise:D .

Heather, I have to agree...

It's weird: I just returned from my wife's office party (she works for FOX) that was held at a local hotel. The food was amazing. Simply incredible.

Sadly, I remember a day when it used to be that good on a cruise. As you have stated, Celebrity does about the best job in the premium/mid-price range of all the lines of delivering a quality dining (both casual and formal) experience. This being said, I was really pleased with the lido on the Zuiderdam (minus the lousy beverage station).

[Krazy Kruizers]

Bring back:

The suite dinners.

The Queen's, King's, or Pinnacle Room for suite passengers to have breakfast or lunch.

Improve the popcorn. I can remember when the popcorn machine was right outside the Wajang Theatre and was made fresh. On our last cruise, the man in charge of the Java Cafe made tons of popcorn early in the morning, half filled the bags, and put out so many at each movie time. By evening the popcorn was stale.

[MandyGirl]

Great list, uncialman! :)

Lindsay - on the Zuiderdam over Thanksgiving, we found the hot chocolate packets one morning in the Lido. We usually had to ask someone for them, as the packets were not always available (or already gone for the morning). Steamed milk didn't seem to be readily available if you like your hot chocolate mixed with steamed milk versus hot water. That was something we would enjoy at the Java Cafe on Maasdam in 2003 (they would mix it with steamed milk), and then we would go sit outside on the Promenade deck nearby. One of hubby's favorite joys on a cruise is his morning hot chocolate. :) On Maasdam, we visited the Java Cafe daily.

[gizmo]

Concentrate on SERVICE.

Lose the MEATLOAF and the Comfort Foods.

Reduce the prices of drinks. I think people would drink more, if the price was right.

Change the tipping policy by getting rid of the pooling. Allow auto tips but allow adjustments to be made for indiviuals.

Go back to 2 dining times.

Send the Vistas to Costa.

Build R class ships.

Have better entertainment in the lounges. Some bands are good and some are terrible. I always wondered who hired the bad ones.

Fix the AC problems instead of concentrating on SOE.

Reinstate the news papers in the suites.

[sail7seas]

IMO....


Return crew ratio to pax numbers as used to be present on the ships. Without personalized service, HAL will be a mere shell of what it used to be. We come to HAL for the people. If the 'people' are spread too thin, we will no longer have the opportunity to interact with them as in the past. They will be unable to provide the service they are accustomed to performing.

HAL ships may as well be any other cruiseline when the crews become anonymous to us. We may as well cruise wherever is the most convenient to us; on whatever ship is offering the best price any given date; on any cruiseline. It is the crew first and foremost which has made us to loyal to HAL. Loyalty has to be a two way street.

[TedC]

We like the Vista ships - as well as the smaller ones. Why get rid of them? No one is forced to choose a Vista ship.

I think having choices within HAL is good.

[sail7seas]

Thank you, Ted. I agree. With love the "S" ships; the stretch "S" and we have had five great cruises on Zuiderdam. I do not agree with the request to do away with Vista. If someone doesn't want to cruise them for whatever reason....Okay, great!! Don't book them. But do not take away the choice from others.

JMHO.... :)

[gizmo]

The OP asked what you would do if you were the sole owner of Hal.

This thread would have been a whole lot nicer if people could just post what they would do, rather than tell others "don't book Vistas if they don't like them".

It started out as an interesting and fun thread that would show people's likes and dislikes. What would this thread turn into if people started to post "Don't book Hal if you don't like the tipping policy", "If you like what Celebrity has , go book Celebrity." ?

[LizB1]

I agree with the original post and also the one by Gizmo. The only thing I would add is to have the next class of ships (perhaps two) somewhat smaller than the "S" and "R" Class for World Cruising and longer cruises.

Would also like to see HAL go back to calling the longer cruises (30+ days) "Grand" cruises as they did until about 1997 and treat them as such with special incentives and gifts.

[sail7seas]

What would you keep the same? What would you change? What would you get rid of?

That was the question.

We all have the choice to answer it in the way we wish.

What I would keep the same is to continue to have Vista ships. ....among other things.

[HeatherInFlorida]

No cruiseline is going to be all things to all people. I think even if you're creating your "dreamline", you can't simply say "lose Vista" or "omit the meatloaf".

I think all the broader changes that have been mentioned are excellent! Gizmo, couldn't agree more about the tipping policy ... it's the pooling that screws it up.

But if you get specific about comfort food, then how about my DH who LOVED the meatloaf? I think it's nice for some people to have that choice ... not me, mind you;) !!. Also, we happened to love having the choice of the 8:00 sitting. 8:30 was just too late, but I hate early sitting. I don't see where this type of issue is that big a problem.

JMNSHO.

[Himself]

The Menu selecltions of the late 1990's would be great.

[uncialman]

That was the question.

We all have the choice to answer it in the way we wish.

What I would keep the same is to continue to have Vista ships. ....among other things.

S7S is correct: I want all opinions, even if those that are posted strongly disagree with mine.

Even though we might disagree on Vista Class ships (although there seems to be quite a few that would prefer the R-class) I think the underlying sentiment is that HAL needs to bring staffing back to it's former levels. They used the 9/11 excuse at first, then the passport issue, then the too many ships excuse. Time to fix it boys.

[sail7seas]

[Quote]
Even though we might disagree on Vista Class ships (although there seems to be quite a few that would prefer the R-class) I think the underlying sentiment is that HAL needs to bring staffing back to it's former levels. They used the 9/11 excuse at first, then the passport issue, then the too many ships excuse. Time to fix it boys.

__________________
uncialman




See.....we DO Agree afterall. :)

Staffing levels need to be brought back up. I am full agreement in that regard.

[peaches from georgia]

...... It is the crew first and foremost which has made us to loyal to HAL. Loyalty has to be a two way street.
Unfortunately, loyalty has nothing at all to do with how HAL does or will do business. HAL owes its 'loyal' customers absolutely nothing. The one and only responsibility of Carnival Corporation is to make a profit for its stockholders. The largest profit possible. If HAL and Carnival find they can best do that by cutting staff, cutting amenities, cutting quality and discounting prices in order to attract more (even if new) customers, then that is what they should and will do, whether past customers like it or not.

[sail7seas]

Thank you for your thoughts. In most ways (not all :) , I agree. Interesting, huh?

[bepsf]

I think that the next major series of ships should be a replacement for the S-Class ships and a hybrid of the Vista Class and the R-Class would fill the bill - roughly the same size as the R-Class but w/ the Vista's larger percentage of balcony staterooms, exterior glass elevators & public rooms on Promenade/Lower Promenade decks. However, I believe that the logical next single ship for the fleet is for a more Prinsendam-type/size vessel - an updated ship to do World Cruises, Eco-cruises, etc. BTW - Every future HAL ship should continue the twin-funnel theme - make it a HAL exterior trademark along w/ the navy hulls...

(BTW - I love the Vista Class. They aren't perfect, but they're close. I enjoy the blend of the traditional and modern...)

I too am all for more staff - but understand that will come at a cost of higher ticket prices. Keep the Indonesian/Phillipino staff, definately.

Improve the giftshop selections, as we discussed on earlier threads.

I'm all for the Culinary Academy's and the Explorations Cafes.

Improve the food - definately!!! And go back to 2 dining times, rather than 4...

However, I think that nominal charges for espresso coffee drinks and dining in the Pinnacle is appropriate, for if there were no charges, there staff would likely not be able to accommodate the demand. Witness what happenned w/ Todd English on QE2, and Johnny Rocket's on RCCL - the demand clearly outstripped availability and the way to moderate that was to charge fees.

Also, ditch Steiner as the spa vendor and bring aboard someone else with a greater sense of customer service, consideration and comfort.

[MortgageChick]

After 3 HAL Cruises Since June 03 ( Rotterdam,Oosterdam, Westerdam) I can see a big diffrence between the Rotterdam and Westerdam. What I don't know at this point is if the Rotterdam is still as wonderful in the area of food and service as it was last summer! I truly hope so.

We sailed on the Oosterdam, because we won a free cruise on the Rotterdam and we sailed on the Westerdam because of the itinerary ( Barcelona to FLL 17 nights)

If I were in charge: Staffing levels need to be increased, Latte and Cappucino machines on the Lido ( as in the Rotterdam), escort from gangway to room by uniformed bellman was a nice touch ( Rotterdam), Dining room service consisitency needs to be achieved.

Do not change those SOE beds, they are the most comfy bed I have ever slept in!!

We truly enjoyed our Westerdam cruise, received wonderful value for our dollar and met some wonderful people, but we were spoiled on the Rotterdam I would love to sail on her now to see if things are still the same as last summer.

I have to admit we are going to sail on Celebrity for our next 3 cruises and see what they have to offer. We will be on the Mercury in 55 days, the Summit on Sept 16 2005 and the Summit again on March 12 06. By the end of the 3rd cruise I feel we will be in a position to see if they are same or superior to HAL. We have heard both. I am also curious about Oceania Cruises. I guess this means that I am still looking , maybe for something that is not there.

[whalers4ever]

I would bring back the old-style ships that held fewer passengers.
You would having tipping optional---I would pay the employees behind the scenes better so they didn't "need" to dip into the tipping pool.
Have a least 1 formal night on ALL cruises, whether they are 3 days or 100!
Can't think of anything else at the moment.

Sailed to date:
Rotterdam V: Alaska - Aug. 1997
Rotterdam VI: Boston/Montreal July 2004
Westerdam: Bahamas/Key West Jan. 2005

[Brandis]

Change:

Have more Prinsendam-style ships built, while keeping the amenities Prinsendam still offers:

- Java Cafe
- Suite Dinner & Lunch
- Exclusive use of Pinnacle Grill for suite guests during breakfast and lunch
- Intimate cruise experience

Marc

[Krazy Kruizers]

Bring back better drinks. I can remember when we uused to be able to see the drink in our glass. We rarely order a drink anymore on the ships.

And we do miss the newspapers in our suites.

[JohnR49er]

Upgrade the safes and doors so you only need your sign and sail card. Its a PITA carrying the cards and room key all the time.

Agree 100% with bringing up the staff level. Its not like the extra people won't have something to do. Some extra hands in the Dining Room would make things run alot smoother.

[Orcrone]

Improve the popcorn. I can remember when the popcorn machine was right outside the Wajang Theatre and was made fresh. On our last cruise, the man in charge of the Java Cafe made tons of popcorn early in the morning, half filled the bags, and put out so many at each movie time. By evening the popcorn was stale.
KK, when I started reading these boards I kept hearing about the wonderful popcorn at the Wajang. But on the Maasdam I had the exact same experience. The first time I took some I ate a little and threw the rest out. After that I would walk by and feel the bag to see if it was warm. Ice cold each time.

[PADutchman]

I have been sailing on HAL for over 20 years and hundreds of days and have never seen meatloaf on any menu or even in the Lido. I will be on HAL ships for over 100 days this year and I hope my meatloaf-free streak continues. Maybe I just never see it because I'm not interested in it when there are so many other more delicious and unusual things to pick from. Maybe it was a toureen of some kind. HAL has pleanty of those. ;)

[gizmo]

I have been sailing on HAL for over 20 years and hundreds of days and have never seen meatloaf on any menu or even in the Lido. I will be on HAL ships for over 100 days this year and I hope my meatloaf-free streak continues. Maybe I just never see it because I'm not interested in it when there are so many other more delicious and unusual things to pick from. Maybe it was a toureen of some kind. HAL has pleanty of those. ;)

Hal added MEATLOAF to the menu on a good percentage of Carribbean cruises.
They refer to it as 'COMFORT FOOD'. :eek:

They served it back in April on my Panama Canal cruise, in place of Prime Rib at the embarkation lunch in the Lido.

Seems like it varies from ship to ship but most people are seeing MEATLOAF on the dinner menu.

[Dolphintime]

I would continue to allow for price competition for all travel agents. Holland America is a very good brand. Having price competition in no way indicates anything negative about Holland. Price competition allows many of us the opportunity to afford Holland or to upgrade to a better cabin.

I would also make it mandatory that all Casino Staff on Holland engage with players, smile and put some fun into their Casino's. Holland should address the lack of players by lowering minimums, providing free drinks to players, etc, but something is needed as by 10:00pm the Casinos are quiet.

Dolphintime

[ekerr19]

I like the auto-tip but not the pooling. I think rather than "auto-tip" I'd prefer the option of adding whatever amount we choose for each and every crew member to our shipboard account.

I haven't had the pleasure of the split dining times yet, but I do like the idea that we will be dining at 8:00 pm on our upcoming Volendam cruise.

I liked the menu when it was pages instead of a single sheet. There was much more variety. I also miss the midnight buffet - I understand it is probably a HUGE waste of food, but I miss the elegance, none the less.

I miss the old Noordam - while there were no balcony cabins, she was the opitome of class in 1984. :)

I would like to see reasonably priced drinks as well. I would also like to see HAL abandon the current alcohol policy prohibiting bringing on your own.

Along the lines of things I'd like to see again - how about 2003-2004 pricing? The pricing for 2005 seems very high to me. I just hope this means the service levels will also be increasing as well.

[uncialman]

Excellent statements thus far folks. I really hope that HAL does abandon their idea of trying to attract a younger, hipper demographic and understand that HAL enthusiasts aren't an age - they are people from all sorts of income and age brackets that are seeking a traditional, quiet, pampered cruise experience.

:o)


I like the auto-tip but not the pooling. I think rather than "auto-tip" I'd prefer the option of adding whatever amount we choose for each and every crew member to our shipboard account.

I haven't had the pleasure of the split dining times yet, but I do like the idea that we will be dining at 8:00 pm on our upcoming Volendam cruise.

I liked the menu when it was pages instead of a single sheet. There was much more variety. I also miss the midnight buffet - I understand it is probably a HUGE waste of food, but I miss the elegance, none the less.

I miss the old Noordam - while there were no balcony cabins, she was the opitome of class in 1984. :)

I would like to see reasonably priced drinks as well. I would also like to see HAL abandon the current alcohol policy prohibiting bringing on your own.

Along the lines of things I'd like to see again - how about 2003-2004 pricing? The pricing for 2005 seems very high to me. I just hope this means the service levels will also be increasing as well.

[PADutchman]

Hal added MEATLOAF to the menu on a good percentage of Carribbean cruises.
They refer to it as 'COMFORT FOOD'. :eek:

They served it back in April on my Panama Canal cruise, in place of Prime Rib at the embarkation lunch in the Lido.

Seems like it varies from ship to ship but most people are seeing MEATLOAF on the dinner menu.

Thanks for the info. I'll keep my eye out for it. I haven't cruised in the Carribbean for years. My wife and I pretty much burned that area out in the '80s. This year we'll be on the World Cruise and then the Amazon in Nov. I'll ask when we board if there have been any MEATLOAF sightings since Ft. Lauderdale :D

[Philip217]

Uncialman,

I completely agree with your ideas.
However, if you owned the company - with those ideas - you would be bankrupt in about two weeks.
We would all love to live in the fantasy world, but at one point or another, the bills show up and somebody needs to pay them.

Don't quit your day job quite yet.

[lambcom]

Amen to Brian's comment about getting rid of Steiner's as the operator of the spa/beauty salon. This company has somehow gotten an almost monopoly position in the cruise industry (to the best of my knowledge virtually all of the Carnival owned lines as well as RCL/Celebrity -- don't know about NCL).

Their philosophy is 1) flog products with as hard a sell as you can get away with and 2) treat the customer with, at best, indifference and at worst rudeness because you'll never see them again.

Surely there is some other company out there that could do a better job. And surely Carnival Corp must know how unpopular this suplier is with their customers. They must be generating a huge profit for Canrival and the other lines for them to keep them on.

[localady]

IMO....

HAL ships may as well be any other cruiseline when the crews become anonymous to us. We may as well cruise wherever is the most convenient to us; on whatever ship is offering the best price any given date; on any cruiseline. It is the crew first and foremost which has made us to loyal to HAL. Loyalty has to be a two way street.

I couldn't agree more S7S!!!!:)
(Sorry to jump in so late....)

I can't help being the devil's advocate......what PRICE are we willing to pay for all of this??? I notice Oceania tends to run a bit higher than HAL these days...would you all be willing to pay a premium price??

I have to say honestly I would, I'd just have to eat more beans between cruises!:eek:

[TedC]

Localady,

I've not sailed on Oceania, but had an interest in it until I saw how much smaller most of the cabins seem to be compared to HAL.

For example, Oceania's "Penthouse Suite" isn't nearly as large as HAL S or even SS suites, and only a tad larger than the R and S class verandah cabins.


The inside and Oceanview cabins are much smaller than HAL's.

If was going to going to abandon HAL I would consider Radisson - not Oceania.

[localady]

Localady,

I've not sailed on Oceania, but had an interest in it until I saw how much smaller most of the cabins seem to be compared to HAL.

For example, Oceania's "Penthouse Suite" isn't nearly as large as HAL S or even SS suites, and only a tad larger than the R and S class verandah cabins.


The inside and Oceanview cabins are much smaller than HAL's.

If was going to going to abandon HAL I would consider Radisson - not Oceania.

TedD-
Didn't intend to compare HAL with Oceania in terms of anything but price.:) In my price surfing, I see that they Oceania is generally higher than HAL per day. I was asking more about our acceptance of a higher price tag for improvements such as higher staff to passenger ratios.:cool:

[uncialman]

Uncialman,

I completely agree with your ideas.
However, if you owned the company - with those ideas - you would be bankrupt in about two weeks.
We would all love to live in the fantasy world, but at one point or another, the bills show up and somebody needs to pay them.

Don't quit your day job quite yet.

Ahem!

Well, my day job is filling ships (and I do a pretty darn good job of it, if I may say so myslef!)!

Philip, the market cannot sustain 5 Carnivals at one time: there just simply aren't enough people cruising to justify that. You find your demographic and properly market your product to satisfy the needs of that client. For instance, I wouldn't put a large group of Partying-hard Insurance salesman on a HAL ship: they would hate me and never use my services again (I would probably direct them to Carnival or RCI). At the same time, I would never send a conservative religious group to RCI or Carnival (I would probably send them to HAL or Celebrity).

The reason that HAL has survived for as long as she has is because of the fact that her marketing has been targeted quite effectively. HAL will not say this in public, but they realize that the Zuiderdam experiment was a bit of a miscue (and one of the reasons why the 5th Vista Class ship is heading to P&O). HAL has simply over-built the demand for their product. Hence why you see remarkable prices on Vista Class ships. :o)

So, sorry to disagree with you, but I think I would have done things a bit differently, and yes, I think I like my plan...