Ryndam 12-4 to 12-11

[NanahGail]

First of all I want to explain that I have never complained about any experience I have had on a ship because I have always tried to be understanding. I have sailed 123 days with HAL and countless days with other cruise lines. This cruise was truly for us the cruise from hell. From Tuesday around 7 p.m. until Thursday late afternoon we lived with a filled to the rim of the toilet bowl of brown liquid sewage from their sewage system. It was seeping out and over the rim and was soaking the floor. I am sorry but if this sounds gross to talk about can you imagine what it was like to live with? The smell was horrible and we couldn't use the shower or the sink basin to brush our teeth because the odor of what was in the toilet bowel made us sick to our stomachs. We were in cabin 418 which was at the very end of the ship and had to use the facilities in the center of the ship on our floor near the atrium. We complained about the situation to the desk and their comment was everyone in the "pink section" had toilet problems. We explained that ours was leaking over the top and on the floor but they just dismissed us and quite frankly seemed downright rude to us and unconcerned. We did hear that the other toilets in this pink section later Wednesday did get temporarily repaired but ours did not. These toilets later were also having problems again later.

After many telephone calls we again went personally to the desk on Thursday morning and again complained that our problem was not resolved we were told by one of the ladies at the desk that she was dating the second officer and he probably had toilet problems too. My very angry husband told her that we were paying for this cruise and he was being paid to be there and in addition living with open sewage in the cabin was a health hazzard. We even offered to change cabins and go from our outside to an inside in order to get a usable toilet without sewage in the bowl and which didn't smell from the sewage odor in the bathroom. They refused so we had to live with this situation. Having to live with a bowl full of sewage and an unusable toilet for several days is not my idea of a restful vacation. When I did participate in the ship activities and try to get my mind off the problems in our cabin, it was always in the back of my mind knowing what I would have to return to.

Our very gracious cabin steward when he discovered the toilet problem turned off the water to the toilet in order to stop the seepage and called the engineers twice before they arrived. When they arrived they did manage to clear the toilet bowl of sewage. At that time we were without toilet use and living with this problem for OVER 24 hours. The engineer said he was under the impression that when they fixed the rest of the section ours was fixed too but that was not the case. Although they finally did remove the sewage, the vacuum in the toilet was extremely weak and did not work properly. We knew the toilet wasn't working correctly and were affraid to use this toilet because we didn't want to again have the sewage from their system backing up and entering and filling the bowl so we continued to use the public bathroom in the middle of the ship. I felt so very sorry for our cabin steward trying to clean around a bowl full of "stuff".

Friday we were again at the Front Desk to inform them that the vacuum still wasn't working. At this time we met several other cruisers who had the same problem with the toilets not working properly for many days and sewage overflowing. They too were complaining about this problem. This was truly a disgusting situation.

Later late Friday evening a lady from the Front Desk did knock on our cabin door and ask if the toilet problem was finally resolved. We were not using the cabin toilet and were not sure if it was or not. In addition, we were leaving Saturday morning and all we wanted was off that ship.

I am very happy for all those passengers on this cruise who didn't have this problem or only were slightly inconvenienced for a little while with the toilets but for those of us who couldn't get the problem resolved it was truly a nightmare. We did fill out the evaluation form at the end of the cruise explaining the problem but I truly feel only the Hotel Manager will read it and will be filed away.

Next year we have the downpayment on a cruise with HAL down the Amazon for 26 days. I am terrified that something like this again could happen and that instead of just a 7 day cruise, we would be stuck in this situation for 26 days. Please Cruise Critic Boards Members advise me. Do you think I should cancel this upcoming cruise? After this last experience with HAL, I don't know what to do.

[CaptData]

I would write to the head office and explain what you did and the answers you got. If this is not satisfactory make sure you are on a different ship for your trip or cancel it.

[scluvsrain]

I would be on the phone with HAL's corporate office first thing Monday morning and lodge a formal complaint with them. And then I'd follow it up with a letter.

If it had been me, I would not have rested/stopped complaining until I found the captain and dragged him to my cabin to show him the mess and insisted that I be moved to another cabin immediately. I have no tolerance for a situation such as what you've described.

[jmvt]

nanahgail-



Please write to me at rvm201@aol.com . Oh my gosh.....what a horror story. I think your story tops ours with no A/C, sweltering for 10 days, rusty bath water, and continually getting locked "IN" our room. There was a fire on board on the 9th nighton the Lido deck right above us. Fortunately our lock worked then but had failed multiple times during the cruise. If the fire had been terrible during one of the times the faulty lock kept us in the cabin, we would have been unable to get to a lifeboat.

Several of us on that cruise have been corresponding with Seattle home office. Write to me and I can let you know the responses.

[OCruisers]

What a HORROR story! :eek:

Please keep us "up-dated" on your response from HAL!

[anniecat]

after hearing these problems...I scared too. our feb cruise will be the first for DH....and if he has similar problems..YIKES. First I'd hate to be the officier he meets....DH has a temper and can be amazingly, and embarassingly, vocal. and worse still....I'd never get him on another cruise. I know maintenance problems can occur, can't be fixed...but over the top apologies and foot kissing can smooth over those problems. The ship staff ignoring you never will help.
wish us luck cabin 129

[DaveOKC]

As I posted on nother topic, we had a similiar problem. We had the same brown liquid for two nights (the first two) and we were in the center of the ship in a suite. I heard many people with similiar problems. ANother 3 days we had times were the toliet did not work, but no brown liquid.
I am writing to HAL on this tomorrow.
The worst part was the front desk ignoring the problem. We had the same "do not care" attitude from them. We noted this on our survey, and hope you did also.
DaveOKC

[RuthC]

HAL can have all the Signiture of Excellence improvements it wants, but without basic amenities they're worthless. Even though I've had intermittant plumbing problems on various cruises I can't imagine how awful this was to live with.

No doubt this is HAL's problem, but there is a special circle of hell for those passengers who flush things they are not supposed to. That may, or may not, have been the problem in your sector, but it certainly is a problem at times.

Best of luck to you on getting some satisfaction.

[grandma bev]

First of all I want to explain that I have never complained about any experience I have had on a ship because I have always tried to be understanding. I have sailed 123 days with HAL and countless days with other cruise lines. This ards Members advise me. Do you think I should cancel this upcoming cruise? After this last experience with HAL, I don't know what to do.
NanahGail,

Please keep us informed. Quite interested to know exactly what response you get from the HAL headquarters, etc. Our family will be on the Ryndam Christmas Cruise on Dec. 18, THIS SATURDAY!!

Bev

[Krazy Kruizers]

You definitely need to write to HAL, keep a copy, send it registered mail, etc.

And keep us all informed.

MY DH takes many medications which has some complications and if he were not able to use his own toilet and "have to run" for a public toilet - BAD news.

[DaveOKC]

We did get a note from the front office suggesting that perhaps we or someone in our area created the problem. However, since MANY cabins had problems at different times I am sure it was a HAL problem not a passenger one.
DaveOKC

[bonnyweed]

I wrote a review of my cruise on Ryndam that concluded on 12/4/04. I forgot to mention in my review a couple of sewage incidents. I met a couple on board who had a suite and they said that the smell of sewage as they entered their cabin was overwheming. The smell was coming from their ventilation system not their toilet. Also, on day 3 of the cruise the smell of sewage was very strong throughout the ship...we were in Mazatlan and I wondered if they were offloading sewage there?
Another perspective, I work in public health and I wonder if the CDC cruise ship inspections only involve the food handling operation? Certainly, overflowing sewage into your room is a public health hazard. Sorry you had this terrible experience. I assume that crew cabins might be similarly affected, if not more so. I don't want my food handler to come from a cabin with overflowing sewage.

[JohnR49er]

Does anyone remember the S-Class ships having all these plumbing and A/C problems before they were retro-fitted for the Pinnacle and Neptune additions? I'm wondering if the engineering and design may have been off a little bit?

[Bill S]

NanahGail: while we can understand how easily ship-board plumbing can get clogged up, I is difficult to understand how the ship's staff can have such an indifferent attitude about remedying the problem. I hope that HAL HQ will have different response. Sorry that this situation occurred and lasted for so long. Let us know how HAL responds.

[shipcafe]

Hi NanahGail,

I was on the same cruise as you. My stateroom as aft on Lower Promenade Deck and we did not experience the problems to which you are referring. For some reason I almost think that you were telling me about this in person .. did we meet? I was "Tom Cruise" in the Great Pretenders Show - haha. Someone was recalling this to me in almost the identical words so I am wondering if it is, indeed, you.

In any case, sorry that you experienced that. My mother and father were also on board and were in an "S" suite on Navigation Deck. They did not experience any of those problems either.

Steve

[trubey]

Your report of conditions on the Ryndam is terribly frightening.

Besides the inconvenience of your having no usable facilities and the deplorable conditions you experienced, I am extremely concerned about the health/safety issues here. I am by no means an expert on public health, but it seems that we are talking about the same general conditions which lead to the diseases like typhoid and cholera. We think of them as being gone from our modern world, but they still exist. You do not go on a cruise ship to experience third-world hygiene.

And doesn't it seem that if the ship does experience problems like this, they might even have to evacuate passengers? Would these conditions be allowed in any American hotel?

So, I've just done some work to determine who the proper governmental oversight agency might be. I think this is who you contact:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/default.htm
or
vsp@cdc.gov

I think this is the most important topic raised on this board since I joined.

Susan.

[NanahGail]

Thank you everyone for your understanding and help. I do plan on writing to the Seattle Headquarters and an apology would be appreciated from them.

To Shipcafe -- No, that wasn't me you talked to on the ship about the problem. Other than the Front Office, a few of the crew who I tried to get help from and one other couple who we met at the Front Desk and who were also having toilet problems, I didn't discuss the problem with anyone. I tried to keep it off my mind as much as possible and participated in lots of activities like Trivia to keep busy. I am the blonde who walked past you when you and another young man were by the elevators and I said how nice you both looked on formal night. Wish I could have met you and talked to you further because you seem like a fun person. I enjoyed "Tom Cruise" and the entire show very much. It was one of the highlights of the cruise.

[Newcastle]

I was on the same cruise and while we did not have that bad of a problem with the toilets we did have some problems, I was quite dissapointed with the ship, it was in very bad condition for just coming out of dry dock, all of the windows and carpets were dirty and the whole ship looked run down.

[Orcrone]

Next year we have the downpayment on a cruise with HAL down the Amazon for 26 days. I am terrified that something like this again could happen and that instead of just a 7 day cruise, we would be stuck in this situation for 26 days. Please Cruise Critic Boards Members advise me. Do you think I should cancel this upcoming cruise? After this last experience with HAL, I don't know what to do.If I lived with a situation like this, and received a runaround in response to it, it is very unlikely that I would ever give the company my money in the future.:mad:

Of course a large discount or shipboard credit might change my mind.;)

[localady]

If I lived with a situation like this, and received a runaround in response to it, it is very unlikely that I would ever give the company my money in the future.:mad:

Of course a large discount or shipboard credit might change my mind.;)
We spoke to a couple last week on the Rotterdam that had simular problems on another HAL ship last year. They were convinced to take our cruise due to the $800pp credit that HAL offered them as an apology. They were having a fabulous time, and were pleased they gave HAL another try.:)

[Orcrone]

We spoke to a couple last week on the Rotterdam that had simular problems on another HAL ship last year. They were convinced to take our cruise due to the $800pp credit that HAL offered them as an apology. They were having a fabulous time, and were pleased they gave HAL another try.:) That might change my mind.;) Seriously, that is a generous offer.

Carnival has a Vacation Guarantee. If you're not happy for any reason they will allow you to disembark at the first non-US port, give you a pro-rated refund of your cruise fare and pay transportation back to the port of embarkation. I wonder how many people would have taken them up on that offer if HAL had a similar program?

[sail7seas]

There is always so much publicity and such a fuss made when there are 5 cases of Norwalk aboard a ship. Every inch gets scrubbed down and tv crews report every time someone flushes a toilet.

Can you just imagine if the publicity got out about the conditions that existed in that cabin and that those pax were living with??? Norwalk Virus?? Huh.....it's stunning that the whole ship didn't get incredibly ill.
Wonder what kind of rating the ship would get if USPH boarded during that cruise and they were directed to one of those cabins that were having these plumbing problems.

MAYBE that is how to get the attention of a front office that shrugs their shoulders and ignores the conditions pax are forced to tolerate during their luxury cruise??? They want to pretend it doesn't exist? There are always ways to asure they 'start to believe you.'

[jhannah]

This situation was truly deplorable. I know that pax do, in fact, try flushing things down the toilet that they shouldn't, and that plumbing systems fail from time to time for one reason or another. But for this to be allowed to continue for days is totally beyond belief. We had toilets in our entire corridor on the Prinsendam earlier this year that wouldn't flush for hours at a time. But, thankfully, there didn't appear to be seepage upward from the system ... just our own "stuff." We also had to run out to a public restroom numerous times. In our case, they were working frantically to rectify the situation. To do less, as it appears in your scenario, would definitely cause me to give serious thought to returning to one of their ships.

[bepsf]

The attitude from the un-responsive desk employee is clearly unacceptable.

However, there is absolutely no way in the world that anyone should have put up with this. Each and every time you as a passenger are inconvenienced by an unhealthy mess such as this, the ship's staff should know about it. If you have to drag someone down to the stateroom by the ears 3-4 times a day every day until it gets dealt with, that's what you do.

Threats of lawsuits don't work. Hoping things will get better by putting it out of your mind throughout the day doesn't work.

Making every Anglo/Dutch non-entertainment crewmember that you come into contact with aware of it - that works. "The squeaky wheel gets the grease"

Fun? No. Necessary for your health and safety? Yes.

[DaveOKC]

One thing that really upset alot of passengers on the Dec 4 cruise was the note that many of us got from the customer relations manager telling us the problem was fixed and not to throw anything but toliet paper in the toliet!
Gee - the problem was all week long and covered most of the ship - I guess it was a SYSTEM problem not a passenger problem!!
I just mailed a detailed letter to HAL on this whole issue, including the actual nasty note we received. It just shows you where the front desk attitude came from.
DaveOKC

[jhannah]

I would guess they sent the note because as the engineers were snaking the lines they found debris that shouldn't be there. (We've had plumbers at our place of business three times in the past week for the same problem.) Foreign objects can travel downstream before they encounter some other roadblock, thus affecting a large area. So your problem could easily have been caused by someone not even close to your cabin. What we all need to remember is that the ship's vacuum system has a much smaller pipe than what you have at home. So what you might get away with flushing at home just won't make it through the ship's system. Even so, the situation needs to receive priority attention by the ship's staff.

[DaveOKC]

I agree it could happen, but ALL WEEK? In a variety of different areas of the ship? Our problems were mostly the first two days. The cabin next to ours was out the last two days of the 7 day cruise.
In any case, the front office handled the problem poorly in my opinion.
DaveOKC

[peaches from georgia]

.... It just shows you where the front desk attitude came from.
DaveOKC
Question- what is with the attitude of most of the front desk personnel on the ships, at least the ones we have dealt with? We have always had a suite on HAL ships, so most often interact with the concierge, but on occasion have stopped at the front desk with a question, needing a stamp for a postcard, or some such minor thing and have found the front desk people really to be unfriendly, with a very negative attitude.

[Arubalisa]

Ships with problems = unhappy passengers :mad:

unhappy passengers = complaints to the front desk

complaints to the front desk = unhappy staff :(

dealing with it day after day after day with management making no improvements = a negative attitude

How much does HAL pay their personnel to take that kind of beating?
How much would someone have to pay a persin to take that day in day out knowing management is only concerned with the bottom line?

Reading this board, HAL for the most part has some serious issues with relating to their repeat passengers. Never mind their apparent lack of attention to basic maintenance such as plumbing and air conditioning...

Departing on Saturday I am thankful we are sailing on the Zaandam because it has not received as bad a beating as many of the other ships. After following this board for a couple of months we are by far expecting the worst, but hoping for the best :D

Should the cruise offer:

cleanliness
good food (fine dining would have been nicer)
acceptable service (chit chat a bonus, but not required, don't care if it takes 2 hours as long as we get what we ordered and the food is hot)
air conditioning where it is expected (not too much to ask?, too cold okay, I am always able to throw on a sweater in the dining room or casino and a blanket on the bed)
and a functioning toilet ...
It will be a wonderful cruise.

[ekerr19]

I agree this is a truly horrible situation and I do feel for the OP, I would have been livid... In the past we've always had the gamut, from "excellent", "very good" to "mediocre" service from the Front Desk.

Was I upset when they called my daughter (11 yrs.) to the Front Desk to settle her $7.10 shipboard account AFTER we'd given them the credit card (twice confirmed) AND as we were disembarking? YES - they knew where to charge this, and they waited til the last minute to call us - our disembarkation number had already been called and we were on the gangway... not very professional or on top of things... mediocre, imo.

Was I upset when my 14-yr old (at the time) son used the cabin phone to call all his friends in Colorado thinking it was only $2.50 per phone call rather than $2.50 per minute? YES, however the ship's Purser graciously reduced the $700+ bill by half after we explained the situation to the Front Desk... well, we accepted the generous offer and we give HAL and the staff "kudos" for recognizing the situation for what it was - a young man who had his own cabin for the first time and was not really paying attention to the policies... excellent, imo.

Our experience has been positive for the most part and I really hope this will not change. I would like to think the OP's situation is the exception rather than the norm... and we've cruised on HAL so many times without incident that I like to believe the times when we do experience problems, they will be few and far between.

I am upset reading about this incident - HAL needs to get their act together if they hope to stay competitive in todays market - otherwise they stand to loose a huge following.

For many pax, the Front Desk is the ultimate authority and first and/or final remedy for their problem - IMO, they need to provide pax with a staff that is WELL EQUIPPED to handle each and every occurance - whether it be toilets that don't flush, A/C that does not work, issues with shipboard accounts, telephone usage, etc. These folks need to be in authority to provide answers AND assistance - not just give it "lip service" and pass the buck...

I, for one, hope that HAL gets this message - I will not accept sub-standard (or even average) service on a continued basis - neither will our friends and family... :confused:

Changes are overdue... but, is anyone listening?

[Bunny2]

I was also on this cruise...on the verandah deck ....last cabin aft. Our toilet also quit flushing on Thursday. The sewage smell in the hall was horrible and eventually leaked into the cabin. On Friday I stepped out of bed onto a big wet spot on the carpet. We told our cabin steward at 800Am about the wet spot. Meanwhile we realized our AC was on the blink as well. We left the cabin for a good part of the day so these 2 items could be fixed. We returned at 1PM to find an engineer just arriving at our cabin. He had just gotten the work order. They did get the AC fixed and the toilet did begin to flush. However, the sewage smell remained...especially in the bathroom. My husband hates to complain but I am tempted to write to HAL. The food also was not very good. We ate in the dining room 3 times...everytime my husbands food was not good....dry clumpy rice....cooked to death mussels.....tough steak....and nasty grey fish. We eventually booked ourselves in the Pinnacle for 4 nights. I must say, well worth it. The staff there was wonderful and the food could not have been better!!!! Just my 2 cents.

[Bunny2]

O.K. I thougth I should post the good things about the cruise. The staff everywhere were extremely pleasant and helpful....although the front desk helpfulness is debatable. The ports were very nice as well. The beds extremely comfortable....with the exception of covers!!!! There was only a sheet and thin blanket. Our cabin was great....extra big balcony toward the back of the ship. UMMM...what else??? The workout room was great as well!! Eat at the Pinnacle!!!

[DaveOKC]

Bunny2 - I wrote to HAL about the problems and you should as well. The more they hear about the problems on this cruise the more they will believe it was not an isolated problem or just a few complainers.
DaveOKC

[dakrewser]

My husband hates to complain but I am tempted to write to HAL.
You should definitely write to the home office about this. Tell them about the problems, but also mention the good things you found....

-dave