HAL's Loss......Celebrity's Gain .....IMO

[sail7seas]

Some of you may remember that a few weeks ago, I asked if anyone knew where Cruise Director John Challenger was??? We have always thought very highly of him and love cruising with him. We had not seen or heard of John at all in about the last year.

I found out why today.


The following is taken from Celebrity's CC Board and the ship it references is Galaxy.

[quote]
At 11:30, the ship sponsored our Cruise Critic Party in the Stratosphere Lounge. I think everyone who had signed up for the party was there and it was fun to meet the people with whom we had been corresponding. The ship provided refreshments and the Cruise Director, John Challenger, spoke. He said he was familiar with the Cruise Critic boards and monitored them frequently. So, John, if you are reading this review, “Hello”.





I am so sorry he has left HAL and that we will not be seeing him anytime soon.....probably.

So,:John......If you are reading this:


Good Luck, John, if you see this. We shall miss you on HAL ships.

[RevNeal]

Frankly, I've never really been too enamored with Cruise Directors and such. I know that quite a few here seem to get close to these people, but in my experience I've rarely experienced them as being anything more than glorified announcers ... and, frankly, sometimes rather annoying ones.

"Snooooowball Jackpot BIIIIIIIngo!"

:D

[tommy]

I agree Greg,I have been on 18 cruises and cant remember any of the CDs but maybe 2or3 from the more recent cruises.No matter which line you go on its the same jokes and stories from them all. TOM

[Krazy Kruizers]

Probably did meet John Challanger sometime. But rarely we do we remember them as we don't make a point of hunting them out just to talk to them. And on our last few cruises the cruise director stopped in the Neptune Lounge for the suite cocktail party for just a few minutes and barely talked to anyone.

The best 2 we remember and sailed with sailed with several times was Susan Wood (HAL) and Dotty Kulasa (NCL - and former neighbor of ours).

[lipoppop]

Frankly, I've never really been too enamored with Cruise Directors and such. I know that quite a few here seem to get close to these people, but in my experience I've rarely experienced them as being anything more than glorified announcers ... and, frankly, sometimes rather annoying ones.

"Snooooowball Jackpot BIIIIIIIngo!"

:D

Coal in your stocking next Xmas.

Seriously neither have I.

[sail7seas]

The fact of the matter is we never participate in 'organized shipboard activities' and always provide our own entertainment and amusement. I have never bought a Bingo Card on any ship/any cruise.


We met John a number of years ago 'socially' and have enjoyed a great many visits/chats/conversations with him. One does not have to play trivia in order to meet ship's cruise stafff. :) What we enjoy most aboard ships is socializing. You'd be happy to discover the talents, the personalities, the intellect, experience, the friendship of a great many of those who work aboard. Many are extremely special people who are wonderful fun to be with and so interesting to chat with.

I shall miss our chats and visits with John. (Never did see him on a stage, now that you mention it. Of course, one needs to go to the shows in order to see him actually 'working'. :) That's another thing we rarely do. Haven't seen very many shows while aboard the ships. ;) ) The only 'stage work' I recall seeing him do was watching the disembarkation talk on tv while packing to go home. I always put it on so we can hear 'Love in Any Language' at least once before we leave the ship each time.

So....before you 'knock' ship's cruise staff.........

[pollux]

What ever their names be, the jokes are the same.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree with Sail. We take part in very few shipboard activities ... although we will play the occasional bingo or trivia game. But it's a rare cruise I haven't come across the CD at some point early on and my idea of a really good CD is the one who at least appears to recognize me the next time we see each other. He/she will easily engage in conversation and throughout the cruise I'll be made to feel just a little special.

A really good CD makes everyone feel they're just a little special. And that's why I like 'em!!!!!:D

[Pincus]

As a veteran of many cruises, I've always thought the CD made no difference to my cruise experience. However, on a cruise last September (not HAL), the CD was so loud, had a bombastic personality, enjoyed driving the crowd into frenzies, that it was impossible to escape him. That's the first time I took notice of a CD...and you can be sure that I'll remember his name forever...and hope to avoid him!

[~Nereus~]

My wife and I are the opposite. Because we have cruised so often, the ports don't matter (except the Medit). We love sea days and rate our cruises based on the group onboard experiences organized by the cruise director and the cruise staff.
Trivia, Taboo, Pictionary... and on Celebrity... battle of the sexes... These activities attract many people who attend them faithfully
Others like outside activities: ring toss, shuffelboard etc...

We have called HAL prior to many booking to ensure that Lyle ***** was not on board because while on the Zaandam (B2B) he cancelled many activities despite numerous complaints...

We just enjoy the interaction between guests. Without the support of the CD, whom we make a point of meeting, we would be forced to hog chairs, read books and relax all cruise... :rolleyes:

[Himself]

I usually meet and converse with the Cruise Directors on a regular basis. I have found most of them to be nice folks. Some of them do go from company to company. I never met John. They are usually in charge of the entirtainment Department.

Himself

[Bill HaHa]

A cruise director on a cruise has never made my cruise better or worse. Period.

[JDee]

He is one of the reasons I hate the Baked Alaska Parade. On the Zuid cruise, all Big Mouth John could do was scream and shout. He certainly didn't need a pA system.....good riddance.....

[iluvcruzin]

LOL! I'm with you RevNeal. But you know there has to be a job for those who can't make it in broadcasting.

The assistant CD called Bingo on the Maasdam. She had the most annoying personality and voice. Every day.. 2-3 times a day.. she would announce that stupid snow-ball jackpot. Be there or be square, you can't win it if you don't play. It was like - Shoot the poor horse and put it out of it's misery.. It was worse when she called bingo. If she becomes a glorifed CD it will be a sad day in the cruise industry.

[tommy]

iluvcruzin,You mean you dont meet socially and chat with the cd instead of participating in ship activitys?Just think of all the same old stories you are missing out on.Iam with you If I happen to meet them ok if not ok to. TOM

[RevNeal]

Having actually served on a Cruise Staff as a Chaplain -- we're considered "Entertainment"!!!!! :D -- I would never "knock" the Cruise Staff. I've just never had much use for them. Like S7S I don't do much in the way of organized activities. I have played bingo a few times, and often participate in the "name that tune" type contests in the Piano Bar (Christopher is really good at it). But, otherwise, I'm not much for those kinds of organized activities. Hence, I've never been too interested in who the CD or ACDs happen to be. If I were to know them personally I'm sure I'd feel differently; and, of course, I'm sure they're wonderful people. But ... I tend to make my own fun about 80% of the time, hence my "use" for them is limited.

[Vicar]

I also agree that a CD has never either made nor ruined my cruise.
Some are a lot of fun, some are kind of corny. but they have all seemed liike nice people.

I have never played Bingo on a ship, but I have played a few trivia games, bacause as my fiance always tells me , I am a fountain of useless knowledge, *LOL* :)

[TampaMike]

I am a retired Cruise Director from various ships / cruise lines. The first thing you learn as CD is that you will never please all of the people, all of the time, AND they WILL let you know it.

I loved my years at sea, and still sail regularly. I do admit, other than to a very few crew / staff I know from my sea days, I rarely divulge my shipboard industry has exploded. Before this massive growth, ships were smaller, onboard diversions were fewer and socializing was considered an activity. CDs and staff were often more successful when they met with the people instead of talking at them, directing them and showering them with plastic key chains (oh yeah, I still have a few!). We, experienced cruisers may chuckle at the likes of 'Love Boat', but it did set a precedence of what people thought a CD should be....visable, personable, involved. Julie McCoy was rarely depicted as a logistics genius, except when arranging an intimate rendez-vous. But the point being, the impression of the CD was she / he was available, approachable and visable. This was reasonable expectations on a 20-30K GRT ship with 500-1000 pax. The CD was also writing the daily program, managing logistics with dining schedules & venues, tour operations and in some cases, even ship clearance and port agent interface in support of the pursers. A jack of all trades, and never to busy to sit and chat.

But times, ships and CD have changed...dramatically in my opinion. I do know there are several excellent CDs out there. They work hard, and are involved with the pax. Often, as a CD you DID move about to different cruise lines (as I did) to experience different itineraries, and different products. As my tenure in the industry grew, I moved to more exclusive cruise products which, in my opinion, captured much of the old style of cruises. I found, the more experienced the clientel, the less activity and 'rah-rah' was programmed. As a CD you could interact with the pax. The staff was expected to socialize and engage the pax (btw, I detest the whole 'guest' lable, I prefer to be a 'passenger'). On the newer, bigger ships, all this 'stuff' was thrown out there to cover all the bases so the cruise fledglings would not be 'bored'. I equated it to TV Programming, where you cannot expect to keep anyone's attention for more than 15 minutes, and commercials / promotions surpassed the substance of the program. Hey! Look at us! We got all this STUFF! Monster Truck races in the Lido, Mud Wrestling in the pool, Bungee Jumping from the mast!......I'd prefer substance to stuff, myself.

I thought hard about why the industry changed, and subsequently, why I retired from it. I know I enjoyed the ships, the crew, and many of the ports. I enjoyed the lifestyle aboard ship. And I think I was eager to meet people. Who were they, where were they from? How were were like & different. I was always amazed on how cruising made it all work.

But something changed. Somewhere the expectations changed. I still meet wonderful people cruising. But I worry when I see too many people depicting their expectations that this 100K+ vessel is for their sole use. The 'other' people aboard are an annoyance. And now we have politcal correctness aboard a vessel that really is a world community rather than a personal charter. I don't get it. Maybe I am getting old.

Back to the CD role. Though there are excellent CDs out there, the role by many cruise lines has been seriously diminished. The authority, creativity and availablity of the CD is tightly managed by the home office. Cruise Lines have become excellent people processing machines. It cost big $$$ to build and maintain the mega wonders of the sea. Tight controls are required to sustain this revenue. We are all witness to these aspects, just read these boards. And this includes CDs. I earned less as a tenured CD in my last years aboard ship, than my early days as a junior cruise staff & shorex position. The programs are managed shoreside and printed aboord ship, generic, mass produced, lowest common denominator mentality. Rarely has the CD any input to the program, the entertainment or even basic ship board activities. Rarely can a CD modify the program, and if so, an endless number of approvals, sign offs, legal reviews, emails, and so on. The hotel operations of the ship superceed the activity / entertainment enterprise aboard ship. Hence, the floating hotel. Most CDs are subordinate to the hotel operation now. Many, in my opinion are mearly talking heads, living a scripted life aboard ship. The public interaction for a CD can be a dreaded thing. It means you are now the target for the unhappy, high maintenance people aboard. With 2000 pax on average, the percentage of that is a good number of people looking for you. That alone is a full time job. The CD is often charged with dispersing awkward information, itinerary / course changes, new tipping policy (dictated by corporate...make the CD read it to all!), debarkation / customs / immigration proceedures. You get the picture.

I think we all agree that cruising has changed. Many new opportunities / itineraries, new ships, more amenities. But read these boards and I think we can all agree many changes are not what we'd prefer. It also affects the CDs, the Hotel Managers, the Dining Stewards, the Casino Manager...and so on. But what hasn't caught up, in my opinion, is our expectations of them, and often appreciation for them. Cruising is a fantasy product with rigid, tightly managed resources (Give us a Dream World....on a budget). I think, as a whole, they do an exemplary job. I may not be bedazzled as much as I was 20 years ago, but I still think cruising is the best fantasy product available to me.

Many things have changed...including me.

Happy Cruising!

[HeatherInFlorida]

TampaMike, fascinating reading and I want to thank you for posting. I will tell you that I would take back the cruising of 1980 to 1990 in a heartbeat. Give me the days of 600 to 900 passengers when the CD knew most of us by name and we almost knew each other. Give me the days of the funny little program stuck under our door at night and I would devour it. Give me the days when the Entertainment staff was also the Entertainment. I loved it. I would give anything to have it back again.

Yes, everything has changed and for me not for the better. I remember when if I told someone I was going on a cruise they thought it was a slice of heaven they would never see. Now the cruise industry as enticed so many and made it so affordable that the ships just keep getting bigger and bigger and, imho, not better.

But still the lure of the sea beckons me. And no matter how many times I say okay I'm done, I'll get back on a ship if for no other reason than a recent evening sailing out of Tortola with the sun setting behind the clouds, the Virgin Islands in the distance, and I saw sights I will never see from the land.

[JDee]

Tampa Mike: Very interesting. Thanks for the many words of wisdom....Enjoy your well earned retirement....

Happy cruising....

[voyeurism26]

Hey S7S...don't worry about RevNeal...he does get a bit moody! You should know this by now.

I once had an argument with him a few years back regarding tipping, and I stated that the tips were included in the bar tabs and he insisted that it wasn't and made me feel as if I didn't know anything. Hence, the bottom line is that I keep my old tickets in by cruise book plus the old menus and daily activities and it just happen that I found an old reciept from the Maasdam and indeed the tip has been included with the bar tab, and finally its funny as of today and my last HAL cruise and the next one I am going in next week, now all the tips are included....

Revneal~don't be so quick on the opinion button until you know your fax, and leave S7S alone...she is really kewl in my book!!!!

[sail7seas]

Voyeurism.....You are soooo nice to me!!! Thank you.


Do you like Pinnacle Chocolate Volcano Cake?

If so.....such nice messages certainly put you on the 'guest list' with Heather and Vicar and Ruth and and and to come and enjoy that huge recipe of Volcanoe I'm making for all of us!! Please say you'll come??!


Thank you for calling me 'kewl'.....I love it!


Which ship are you on next week? Not, by chance, Veendam with some of us from the Board??? Hope you have a wonderful cruise and will be certain to come back here and tell us all about it.

If it is Veendam, we must make ourselves known to eachother We'll find a way. :) I wish I knew how all the CC HAL'ers on Veendam would meet.

[RuffinReady]

Give me the days of 600 to 900 passengers when the CD knew most of us by name and we almost knew each other.
Heather, if I remember correctly you like the Prinsendam. If so, now I know why. That is why I loved (past tense) the Royal Princess.

Ruffin

[voyeurism26]

Nope...we miss again. We always go around the same time but on different HAL ships. I will be on the Westerdam for the five day cruise, its just a short get-away and I wanted to go back on the Westerdam. We have been on the old Westerdam and really enjoyed her. Although I am not a big fan of the Vista-class ships I am hoping my experience on the Westerdam is better then the Zuiderdam.

I understand DJ Jazzy Jeff is onboard the Westerdam and we have socialized with him on our past cruises, so its nice to see him again.

Our next official cruise will be November 25, 2005 on the Volendam, its a ten day cruise. Check it out, perhaps we will meet someday!

I have been saving myself for the Chocolate Valcano cake, the duck, the carrot cake, the steak in the pinn/oddy. rest. and that damm bread pudding, by the way I tried making it...but did not come out the same.

I will give you a full report when I return.

[sail7seas]

Have a great time.


WE LOVE JAZZY JEFF......My DH cracks up with his gold bunny rabbit get up and his wigs and various costumes. I think he's FABULOUS Fun!!! We have sailed with him sooo many times and are always happy to find him aboard.

He has worked (wonderfully well) with CD John Challenger in the past and we had a blast fooling around with them.

Enjoy your cruise and please share a review with us.

Hopefully we'll meet one day soon on a 'dam' ship. WE do seem to sail on roughly the same dates, don't we??

[sail7seas]

Heather, if I remember correctly you like the Prinsendam. If so, now I know why. That is why I loved (past tense) the Royal Princess.

Ruffin


Our very first cruise ever was on Royal Princess. We must have liked alot about it as that was some 60+ cruises ago. Actually, I never did fully learn my way around that ship in the 7 days we were aboard. Wasn't there something about having to go down a deck and walk forward then back up a deck in order to get "from here to there?" :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather, if I remember correctly you like the Prinsendam. If so, now I know why. That is why I loved (past tense) the Royal Princess.

RuffinActually, Ruffin, I've not been on the Prisendam ... nor on the Royal Princess! But I've actually never met a ship I didn't like;) .

Sail, now I would say that most people could probably honestly say they sail around the same time as you do:D . How many times a year is it you cruise?????;) It would kind of be like playing dodgeball to miss sailing around the same time!!!

It's almost here, Sail .... I'm gonna miss you like the dickens:o !!

[RuffinReady]

Heather, The only one that I didn't like was the old Bahama Star in the 1950's, it was a real tub. We had a problem with our second cruise on the Crown Princess in the Baltic in 2002. She had developed engine problems so we were late to some of the ports which caused problems with the shore tours. Princess was getting ready to sell her out of their service and were not maintaining her well. We had previously sailed on her to Alaska and were very happy then. I understand the same thing is happening with the Royal Princess. That is a shame, she was a great ship, we did two 32 day cruises on her.

We also have always had good service from all crew members and we always give tips over the recommended amounts.

Ruffin

Bahama Star (long time ago!)
S.S. France (Transatlantic -1965)
S.S Atlantic (Transatlantic, Mediterranean - American Export Lines - 1966)
Europa (Caribbean - 1969 - North German Lloyd)
Statendam (Caribbean - 1975)
Sunward (Bahamas - c. 1980)
Song of America (Caribbean - 1988)
Crown Princess (Alaska - 1999)
Royal Princess (B2B to South America - 2001)
Crown Princess (Baltic - 2002)
Royal Princess (B2B2B; Transatlantic, France, Belgium, Holland; Gt.Britain-2002)
Galaxy (Caribbean - 2003)

Prinsendam (B2B; Transatlantic NYC to Athens – May 2005)

[sail7seas]

[Quote]

Sail, now I would say that most people could probably honestly say they sail around the same time as you do:D . How many times a year is it you cruise?????;) It would kind of be like playing dodgeball to miss sailing around the same time!!!

It's almost here, Sail .... I'm gonna miss you like the dickens:o !!
__________________



Dodgeball......:D I'm feeling very deprived as the next cruise(s) we have booked after our upcoming Veendam , are not until June. That's a long time between cruises for us. But, DH was quite serious the other night when we were discussing just that topic. He was concerned that was too long to wait. I hope we only always have such worries!!!

We'll most probably book another as soon as we get home.

I'll miss you, too...... Maybe I'll log on from the on board Internet Cafe to 'catch up' on things.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well, Sail, safe to say I'll keep the ball bouncing as much as I can without you:D , but it won't be the same. And I am feeling so sad for you having to wait almost a whole 6 months without a cruise. Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear ....;)

Ruffin, I remember my Mom having some troubles like yours on the "Jason". Ever hear of that ship? Can't remember where she sailed it. But I've been lucky. On the other hand, I think I've been on only 13 cruises and that's over a lot of years!!!