Cruise Travel magazine - HAL - tipping

[Krazy Kruizers]

Our Cruise Travel magazine came in the other day and I didn't have a chance to read it until this morning.

There was a very interesting article in it about tipping. Stein Kruse said that 90% of the passengers do like the new auto-tipping policy. He said that service levels have improved as well. " "Motivation is up," he contends, noting that the new arrangement provides tips to some service personnel who previously did not receive gratuities. "Food preparers now have a share in a small percetage of the tipping as well. There is an incentive to assure that the food is as good as possible, arrives as hot as posible." "

[Pincus]

KK, I have not searched the threads here, but from your experience, can you give me a "guesstimate" on how the $10 is divided...i.e., I didn't know "food preparers" had a small percentage of the $10.

Thanks...for all of your help on this board.

[sail7seas]

I respectfully disagree with Mr. Kruse. It has not been my impression while aboard the ships that 90% of the pax like this new policy. FAR from it IMO


As to food preparers 'having incentive', I would think keeping their jobs and being rehired should be adequate incentive as it is should be for all working people. HAL is over 130 years old. Is he saying that the food preparers are only now doing the best work they are able? Seeing as this tipping plan is new, until now 'they were not producing meals as well as they could have?

Hmmmm......

[sail7seas]

My Cruise Travel magazine has not yet been delivered. I'll be looking for that article.

[Golfgrl1911]

I read the same article with great interest, then decided to do a little math. At $10.00 per person x 1800 people the math was simple and came to $18,000.00, I then divided that between the approximate 900 staff members and that came to $20.00 per crew member for the total 7 nights...........hmmmmmm

[Golfgrl1911]

I realize that not EVERY crew member is entitled to HALs gratuity system but I was just curious as to the approximate amount that a crew member would be entitled to. It doesn't seem to be all that much IMO.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Pincus

When the policy first went into effect last May, we were told that of the $10, $3 goes to your room steward, $3 goes to your dining room waitstaff (they were not specific as to how much the waiter and his assistant get individually), and the other $4 is divided by among the "behind the scenes" crew.

[Krazy Kruizers]

sail7seas

As to food preparers 'having incentive', I would think keeping their jobs and being rehired should be adequate incentive as it is should be for all working people. HAL is over 130 years old. Is he saying that the food preparers are only now doing the best work they are able? Seeing as this tipping plan is new, until now 'they were not producing meals as well as they could have?


Agree with everything you said!

[Pincus]

Thanks so much, KK...

this is very helpful.

[anngie]

I think that the new tipping policy was instated in lieu of a raise for all employees. I would rather that it be included in the price of the cruise or for the cruiseline to call it what it really is - a service charge.

[jhannah]

Stein Kruse said that 90% of the passengers do like the new auto-tipping policy.Looks like his marketing department spin specialists are hard at work!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Someone is playing with the numbers. Anyone who's ever worked with numbers knows that you can get them to say anything you want.

So I would ask Mr. Kruse 90% of what group likes the new tipping policy? I complained once to a local service company and was told that 90% all respondents to a recent survey gave positive feedback.

That's like saying 4 out of 5 dentists who chew gum recommend Trident.

[JDee]

There is an item to today's newspaper travel section that claims 90 percent of pax leave the tip in place. It further states that a HAL spokeswoman furnished that date. Just because a certain amount of pax left the tip in place, does not mean that they liked or prefer to tip that way. Many may just figure it's just not worth the hassle of going to the main desk to remove it to tip the old fashioned way....

[Searanger]

Funny...Spin those numbers don't they. So 90% don't try to remove them, so they assume we all like it. That's a whole different picture isn't it! Has anyone seen the guilt trip they lay on someone at the front desk if they try to change or remove them. No wonder only 10% go through the hassle and then get back to their cabins and find guilt letter from the Captain.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Absolutely!!! We left the tips in place and hate the new policy! If HAL's reading, please don't misinterpret adherence to the policy an approval of the policy!!

[kygal]

I am not ashamed to admit that we did NOT leave the tip in place. So perhaps we are not part of the 90 percent of the pax :rolleyes:. First of all, I didn't like the way the "tip" was presented to us through the letter from HAL. Secondly, I did not appreciate HAL'S communications while on board about the tipping policy. They claim they were SO proud of their employees, and how hard they work (for some this IS true)...and that we should leave the $10 per person tipping in place. Usually when your employer is proud of you, THEY give you a raise..don't they? .. I spoke with many passengers on the Statendam who were not going to leave the automatic tipping in place. I tip those who I feel are worthy of tipping! I don't need HAL or my in-laws to guide me in that area! I do agree with the poster about how they try and make you feel guilty about "why" you removed the charges...they even make you sign a paper ..btw.!! They even want a "reason" as to WHY you chose not to leave them in place..Was I ashamed? NO...the funny thing is ..the automatic tipping is THE only thing these people could keep straight on our account from day 1! In the end he wrote "personal reasons"...I told him they can call me anytime...I am still waiting ..:D

[the2ofus]

Well, on the third day of our seven day cruise we went to the front desk and my husband filled out a form specifying the tip amount he wanted charged every day to our account. He was given a form to fill out, not hassle, no pressure. The form contained a space for comment and he explained that he did not like the coerced tipping and signed his name. On the last day of the cruise, our statement showed the amount we requested for each of the first three days, then reverted to the HAL auto-tip amount for the last four days. At the front desk, they could not seem to find the form DH had filed. Had to fill out another form and have the bill corrected.

It is not that the service was poor. It was DHs attempt to point out to HAL that tipping should be a personal decision, not a charge. Wonder if anyone took note of his comments.

Also heard some comments at the Front Desk from people with two older children in a cabin complaining that $40 a day was excessive. I had to agree with them.

[alsas]

We have been on three cruises since new policy and yes we have left the tip in place....but...one waiter in dinning room was not the friendly style we are used to, but he did serve the food as requested, and hot ..so... we gave an additional tip to assitant waiter. Personally it is not about the amount of the tip but what the potential result may end up leading to mediocraty. happy sailing

[dakrewser]

Also heard some comments at the Front Desk from people with two older children in a cabin complaining that $40 a day was excessive. I had to agree with them.
Why? Didn't the kids eat or sleep in a bed? Never took a bath or shower?

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have left the auto-tip in place on our cruises. Just so we could tip extra where we felt it was warrented.

I asked this via e-mail to HAL a long time a go and didn't get an answer - how much of the $3 goes to the waiter and how much to his assistant? On our last cruise (21 days) we raely saw the assistant (I commneted on this before in another thread). So we only gave our waiter an extra tip.

[Krazy Kruizers]

kygal

So you are saying that since you had the auto-tip removed you didn't leave any tips?

[kygal]

Krazy Kruisers..
Sorry if I made it sound like we did not leave a tip at all..We of course tipped our room steward..and the waiter...we will not be mentioning names here..as we were told if we did they would have to turn them in, which is unfair! On a 15 day cruise we ate in the dining room 4 days..the other nights we had room service and of course we tipped them (good) ...I just think that the flat $10 per person per day is wrong..(just my opinion)..

[sail7seas]

We don't like the automatic bill added to our account but we do not remove it and it is highly unlikely we ever would.


If service were such that we did not wish to tip, we would no longer be booking HAL. As long as we return to HAL, it has to be assumed we are satisifed.

We Always Have and Will Continue to Thank (with an envelope) those who have provided special/excellent service to us. If the time ever came that we did not wish to do that, we would not wish to continue cruising HAL.

I would love to have the opportunity of speaking the Board of Directors/Mr. Kruse/Senior Management..... How many of us would truly enjoy 30 minutes with Senior Management?? My imagination seems to be running wild!! :)

[tommy]

We also left the tipping in place reluctantly.I think maybe the only way Holland is going to admit most passengers dont like the new tipping policy is if people start removing it.Other wise just like the lower standards in service seem to becoming acceptable so will the auto tipping.We still like cruising with Holland but now feel it is no better than RCCL,OR Princess,and not as good as Celebrity.And I feel this is a direct result of the cutbacks,and new tipping policy. TOM

[the2ofus]

I should mention that DH in his comment also mentioned that the current policy encourages mediocrity, not excellence, since there is no way to monetarily show displeasure or pleasure with service. The auto-tip is the same, whether the service of one steward, cabin or dining room, or any other person is good or bad. You either reward all or punish all, regardless of merit.

[anngie]

I went to the main desk on the last night of our Westerdam Ft Lauderdale inaugural Dec 5 cruise and asked to change part of our tips around since we were eating on the Lido Deck at night on part of the cruise. We would like to leave those people an additional tip. The reception that I got was very unfriendly and I had to sign a form detailing my reasons for changing 1/3 of the tips. We used room service each morning and tipped them separately. I tried not to feel embarrassed while the people in line behind me saw me signing the form and heard the impatience in the voice of the person at the main desk. I had started out asking to be considered for an early departure since we had a very long drive home. That request was also dismissed very quickly.

[tankerjo2]

The sad fact is give it a little more time and the "$10 pp gratuity" added to passengers bills will be fully accepted and those who don't leave "a little extra something in an envelope" will be accused of stiffing the the hired help and called cheapskates on these boards.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

I am not ashamed to admit that we did NOT leave the tip in place. So perhaps we are not part of the 90 percent of the pax :rolleyes:. First of all, I didn't like the way the "tip" was presented to us through the letter from HAL. Secondly, I did not appreciate HAL'S communications while on board about the tipping policy. They claim they were SO proud of their employees, and how hard they work (for some this IS true)...and that we should leave the $10 per person tipping in place. Usually when your employer is proud of you, THEY give you a raise..don't they? .. I spoke with many passengers on the Statendam who were not going to leave the automatic tipping in place. I tip those who I feel are worthy of tipping! I don't need HAL or my in-laws to guide me in that area! I do agree with the poster about how they try and make you feel guilty about "why" you removed the charges...they even make you sign a paper ..btw.!! They even want a "reason" as to WHY you chose not to leave them in place..Was I ashamed? NO...the funny thing is ..the automatic tipping is THE only thing these people could keep straight on our account from day 1! In the end he wrote "personal reasons"...I told him they can call me anytime...I am still waiting ..:D

I could not have said it better myself, My wife goes to the pursers desk and asks that all tips be removed they place a form in front of her she checks the box that says tips in cash signs her name and thats what she does. and she tips according to service rendered not because she fills obligated.

[Two Ells]

I'd like to sit down with senior management about several changes we have noticed in HAL service, including the automatic tipping policy. As long as people only complain on the message boards or on the survey at the end of the cruise, the tipping policy will remain the same. We had problems with our on board account for the first time in l8 cruises and other problems that I wrote to senior management about - only received a terse reply from "risk management". I don't think we will ever cruise on HAL again. The airlines started with all the cutbacks and people continue to fly ........but no one HAS to cruise!

[SHayesShip]

Review your math. It is $18,000 per day x 7 = $126,000 for a 7 day cruise.
The amounts are not divided equally as stated in prior posts.

Steve Hayes


I read the same article with great interest, then decided to do a little math. At $10.00 per person x 1800 people the math was simple and came to $18,000.00, I then divided that between the approximate 900 staff members and that came to $20.00 per crew member for the total 7 nights...........hmmmmmm

[Golfgrl1911]

[QUOTE=SHayesShip]Review your math. It is $18,000 per day x 7 = $126,000 for a 7 day cruise.
The amounts are not divided equally as stated in prior posts.

Steve Hayes

OOOPS!!! You are so right Steve! I'm suprised that no one else caught that!:D Well now I feel better knowing that they are being compensated better than a mere $20.00 per week. $140.00ish a week for the great service I received sounds much better to me. Thanks for finding my goof too! Chef Nancy:)

[Philip217]

Twenty years ago, the average cruise ship tip (worldwide) was US$19.75 per person per day. Most every passenger tipped that amount - and then added a bit on the side for his favorite staff.
Today the average cruise ship tip (worldwide) is US$9.75 per person per day. A 50% reduction.
In 2003, over 30% of passengers tipped NOTHING at the end of their cruise.
Can you think of any industry that has cut salaries by over 50% in 20 years (we are not even factoring inflation), and then suffered with 30% tipping nothing?
Does anyone besides me think that service would suffer if you cut the salary of your staff every year for 20 consecutive years?

The mass market cruise lines have been forced to change this tipping policy in order to keep good people working for them. The auto tip embarrasses many of the cheap charlies who formerly refused to tip. Remember those jokers who mysteriously disappeared on the last night of the cruise as the rest of us were handing out tip envelopes? Now it is more difficult for them to cheat the hard-working service staff. Now the staff get more tip money, and the cruise lines have a better chance to keep their better staff.
The alternative would be to raise the cruise fares DRAMATICALLY to cover reasonable wages for cruise ship employees. But then their earnings would be guaranteed. Where is the incentive to do a good job? We would then end up tipping on top of the increased fares to get good service. I do not want to pay a higher cruise fare to cover for some clown who is too poor or too cheap to tip the staff

Shall we force all the good restaurants and bars in America to add the tip as a service charge to the price of the meals and drinks? Does anyone believe that service will improve if we do that?

Shall we force all the taxi companies and hotel companies to add the tips and service charge into taxi fares and hotel rooms? Does anyone believe that service will improve if we do that?

[kygal]

Sorry Philip but I have to really disagree with you here! This was our "first-ever" cruise on Holland ..and believe me...IF they would have offered the service that was shown on the website we would have gladly left the $10.00 per person per day.

Seeing as they didn't produce that, should I have the right to CHARGE them for misrepresenting their services? ..I don't think so!

I also don't think the pax should pay because Holland LOWERS their wages!!WHEN my boss thinks I am doing an excellent job, HE rewards ME with a bonus..he does NOT go to the consumer and "beg" them to tip me!!

We also found that the services WE did enjoy (besides the room steward) we needed to tip seperately..the bars, room service..etc...these folks couldn't even get our shipboard account right ..except for the $10 auto tip- because of this they ruined what should have been a dream vacation for us! The last straw for me was when we were informed we would be getting the "VIP" treatment for the rest of the cruise...then it took them 3 days to straighten our shipboard account up..by this time we were headed home and guess what the monies could ONLY be spent onboard..when I approached the front desk and informed them we WANTED to use the monies for excursions he said "you can"...we were in the middle of the ocean heading HOME...HOW could we spend them on excursions now?...

I do not want to pay a higher cruise fare to cover for some clown who is too poor or too cheap to tip the staff
My dh works closely with the poor, and YOU should be ashamed for refering to them as "clowns" ...perhaps YOU should take a second or two and thank God ..that YOU are fortunate enough to HAVE your needs met!! If I didn't know better I would swear you work FOR Holland America!!

[sail7seas]

[Quote]


these folks couldn't even get our shipboard account right ..except for the $10 auto tip- because of this they ruined what should have been a dream vacation for us! The last straw for me was when we were informed we would be getting the "VIP" treatment for the rest of the cruise...then it took them 3 days to straighten our shipboard account up..




Would you explain how errors on your shipboard account ruined what should have been a dream vacation?

If it was a matter of having to go to the office to have corrections made.....that ruined everything else about your vacation?

Thanks for explaining, if you choose to.

[kygal]

Sail7Seas,
I really didn't want to go into our "ruined" dream vacation, but since you were kind enough to ask :) ...no it wasn't because we had to go to the Front Office once....it was almost a daily thing. Our shipboard account SHOULD have been credited before we ever boarded the ship! Those monies were for shore excursions, etc..that we had planned ..the money was given to HAL far in advance, and yes I could have spent my own cash..but chose not to because this money WAS supposed to be there. After many calls to our TA, she informed us the money HAD been sent to HAL and that they would get it straightened out..two days later we were informed it WAS in our account, then the following day we were informed it wasn't there...when we reached Hawaii we were contacted again by our TA who apologized again for all of the trouble we had been having and that there would be more monies added...(in the meantime we were afraid to spend ANYTHING) because we weren't sure when they would say..it wasn't there again :(
As far as tipping goes, we tipped those who served us well...our room service attendant, the room steward...the folks in the bar...
We found that the communication on this ship was terrible, and being first time cruisers...we weren't at all impressed. We realize they did offer many forms of kindness to others who were sailing with us, and for that we are thankful!
The ship itself was beautiful, Hawaii was beautiful..(even though we missed the shore excursions we looked so forward to)..and most of the people we met along the way were kind and helpful.
I should add that HAL did send a bottle of wine..(we don't drink wine..but we did share this with a friend) and a beautiful bouqet of flowers...(they took the flowers and the vase..the night before we left)
I am trying to finish our review and hope to share it with you all shortly :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Twenty years ago, the average cruise ship tip (worldwide) was US$19.75 per person per day. Most every passenger tipped that amount - and then added a bit on the side for his favorite staff.

Philip, could you tell us where you got this figure? As a person who has been cruising for 25 years, I find this average a little difficult to believe and just wondered about your source.

You're suggesting that a couple in 1980 would lives tips totalling $280 for a 7 day cruise and I recall the "suggested" tip to be less than half of that. So I find it hard to believe that an average would end up being over double the "suggested".

[sail7seas]

Thank you for sharing, Kygal.

I am so sorry this happened to you. We all know it should not have and I, for one, now can see how that did put a damper on your enjoyment of your cruise. That sort of confusion and error gnaws at you and it is hard to be in full vacation mode and to fully enjoy in the way you should have been able.

[RuffinReady]

I don't especially like automatic tipping. I prefer to reward each person individually for the service that I have received. However, I have had tablemates that I know had "stiffed" our waiter. It is likely that they are the kind of people that would go to the desk and ask that they be removed from the tipping list, then "stiff" their servers, cabin stewards etc. We tend to take long cruises, two 32 day ones recently and the next on the Prinsendam will be 26 days. We always tip the waiter who brings drinks $1.00 on the charge/receipt that he hands us, in addition to the standard 15%, including for my wife who gets Sprite. Whenever we go to a lounge the waiters trip over themselves to ask us if we want anything. They make sure that we always get peanuts etc. at our seat/table. We almost have to beat them off during the evening as they always ask us if we want refills. When you compare this meager expenditure against the cost of a vacation it is "peanuts". Of course, I had the experience of being a bus boy at a resort in upstate New York during my early teens, so I appreciate tipping more than many people, as my employer paid "peanuts". I plan to let the 10% automatic tip remain for us on this our first trip under this policy. Then I will give out an envelope each Friday to those who deserve it with an additional amount is cash. This will give them some spending money when they are allowed to go ashore. I am not a weathy person, we have never been in a balcony cabin, much less a suite, but I'll be damned if I will shortchange ships personnel.

Everyone who goes on a cruise is rich by comparison to those who work on those ships, and they live packed tightly in difficult living conditions for long periods while they serve out their long contracts. They have expensive phone bills calling their families from time to time so they can talk with their loved ones. I don't understand the tightwads who would deny a few dollars to these people. Shame on them. :mad:

Ruffin

Bermuda Star (long time ago!)
S.S. France (Transatlantic -1965)
S.S Atlantic (Transatlantic, Mediterranean - American Export Lines - 1966)
Europa (Caribbean - 1969 - North German Lloyd)
Statendam (Caribbean - 1975)
Sunward (Bahamas - c. 1980)
Song of America (Caribbean - 1988)
Crown Princess (Alaska - 1999)
Royal Princess (B2B to South America - 2001)
Crown Princess (Baltic - 2002)
Royal Princess (B2B2B; Transatlantic, France, Belgium, Holland; Gt.Britain-2002)
Galaxy (Caribbean - 2003)


Prinsendam (B2B; Transatlantic NYC to Athens – May 2005)

http://escati.linkopp.net/cgi-bin/countdown.cgi?trgb=000000&srgb=00ff00&prgb=4169e1&cdt=2005;05;09;17;00;00&timezone=EST-0500

[dakrewser]

Everyone who goes on a cruise is rich by comparison to those who work on those ships, and they live packed tightly in difficult living conditions for long periods while they serve out their long contracts. They have expensive phone bills calling their families from time to time so they can talk with their loved ones.
To the best of my knowledge, no staff member is forced to work on the ship. They choose to because its a better life, with better pay and excellent training than other options they have. I do not feel compelled to compensate them for that choice any more than I would tip hospital ER personnel because "they live packed tightly in difficult living conditions for long periods while they serve out their long contracts" (which they do). The rewards aren't immediate, but they do come.

Tipping, lest we forget, should reflect the service received - and nothing else. Better service = better tips, poor service = poor tips.

As an adult, I do not need a cruise line to tell me (or, for that matter to even suggest or recommend) a tipping amount. Still less am I pleased to be coerced to pay service charges in the guise of a tip - and when I don't have a choice, it is a service charge.

[RichGuy]

I am surprised that nobody responded to GolfGirl's Fuzzy Math. She said that she took $10 x 1800 pax to get to $18,000. Then, she divided that figure by 900 staff, to get to $20 per staff member. Then she said that this $20 was for the whole cruise.

However, I believe that each passenger tips $10 PER DAY, meaning that the average is actually $140 per crew member, or about $600 per month extra income.

[RichGuy]

Oops, I guess everybody makes mistakes, hmmmm?? I just read back through the posts, and somebody did take exception to the Fuzzy Math.


Sorry Gang.

[RichGuy]

Furthermore, it wasn't GolfGirl that posted the Fuzzy Math, it was SHayesShip. It was GolfGirl that made the correction.

Can we just pretend this never happened??

I am cruising on the Z in June with wife and two teenage boys. The excitement must be getting to me. Hardy Har.

[RichGuy]

Okay, now upon further reading, it was GolfGirl who originated the Fuzzy Math, and Hayes that corrected her.

Okay, now I guess I'll go dye my hair blonde.

[tommy]

Hey RichGuy where in Illinios are you from. TOM

[RuthC]

...We always tip the waiter who brings drinks $1.00 on the charge/receipt that he hands us, in addition to the standard 15%...If you want to tip the lounge steward an additional amount each time you will need cash. You cannot adjust the service charge in the bars at all (up or down); it's 15%.

[Philip217]

Kygal,

I dont work for HAL. Too many old complainers and whiners over there. I have been working for Celebrity and NCL for the past 10 years. By the way, auto-tipping at NCL has improved services and crew morale there immensely. NCL crew now earns far more money. It works better than the old style tipping at Celebrity.

Heather,
20 years ago I worked on Royal Viking ships. That`s where they did the studies to show that the average tip was US$19.75 per person per day.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather,
20 years ago I worked on Royal Viking ships. That`s where they did the studies to show that the average tip was US$19.75 per person per day.Do you know something amazing? 20 years ago this coming April we were on the Royal Viking Sea in the Mediterranean. One of the most magnificent cruises of my life. But it also explains the average a bit more because Royal Viking Line was (IMHO) one of the finest cruiselines ever, but also a bit more expensive than the rest.

[Opinions]

I should mention that DH in his comment also mentioned that the current policy encourages mediocrity, not excellence, since there is no way to monetarily show displeasure or pleasure with service. The auto-tip is the same, whether the service of one steward, cabin or dining room, or any other person is good or bad. You either reward all or punish all, regardless of merit.

Obviously,from reading this board many do not understand the new so called "tipping' system...It helps to establish more of a guaranteed wage for these employees...I cringe when I hear someone talk of "punishing" some worker who does not quite live up to their expectations...It is obvious the days of employees depending exclusively on the whims of their passengers are over...More cruise lines and their employees are agreeing to this method of payment...I have no problem with it.

[Golfgrl1911]

Okay, now upon further reading, it was GolfGirl who originated the Fuzzy Math, and Hayes that corrected her.

Okay, now I guess I'll go dye my hair blonde.


Hey Richguy....You really gave me a laugh.....I know the math was "fuzzy" because my brain was fuzzy after partaking of too much Christmas spirits the day before!:D I also had my roots touched up a few days prior so that may have had something to do with it as well.:D I would like to say that I was testing everyone.....but I wasn't. Oh well............maybe that is why the crew bends over backwards for me......I'm doing my math wrong and majorly over tipping!! Have a great New Year everyone! Chef Nancy:)

[Quendryth]

Having just returned off the Infinity on a 15 day cruise to Hawaii & tipping policy is fresh in my mind, I thought I would share what I thought was a very resonable policy on tipping.

If you desire to have tips added to your account ( the amount is pre-determined - pp/pd, you need only go to the front desk 2 days before the end of the cruise & charge this amount. On the last formal night, envelopes & vouchers are provided in your cabin for you to hand out to your individual helpers, usually the last night. We chose this option because we were able to evaluate performances for the 13 days prior to the end of the cruise. We also elected to give extra $ to our waiter & his assistant who were by far the best we have ever had - yes, even better than HAL during the glory days we all remember so well.

We could have just tipped the old-fashioned way, with cash & ask for envelopes at the front desk or bring our own. It just was so much easier to let the front office handle it this time. We didn't have to bring extra cash, but we could have cashed a traveler's check if we wanted to downgrade the tip amount enough to warrant this action.

I found it to be a very organized way of handling this & hope HAL changes before our Veendam cruise in November. Otherwise, I will be in line changing from automatic to my choice of who gets what. After all it is our money - shouldn't we disburse it however we see fit?

This is just an opinion & not meant to upset anyone who differs with me, BTW. IMHO.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Quendryth

You mentioned that you were on the Infinity.

According to the article in Cruise Travel there is a $10.50 per day person tip added onto your bill if you decide to do as you did - charge upon request. I see that there is also a $3.50 per person extra tip added onto your account if you are in a suite and have a butler.

Is this true?

[Krazy Kruizers]

We sailed on the QE 2 in 1993 and for those of us in the top category, for our 5 day Trans-Atlantic crossing, we were told months in advance that $200 was being added onto our booking price to cover tips - not on our shipboard bill.

In 1994 when we did a 14 day Mediterranean cruise on the Cunard Princess we were given the choice of pre-paying our tips (again high for those in the top category) or waiting till we got on the ship. We chose to prepay.

[kygal]

I dont work for HAL. Too many old complainers and whiners over there.
OK not HAL..but you do work "in" the industry...seeing I am sort of a detective I am happy that I at least placed you in the RIGHT industry:rolleyes: !!

I was reminded by a friend who flew from Cincinnati to San Diego with us..that there were MANY people on our flight that were Holland Employees...room stewards, etc. ....so I am sure their phone calls couldn't have cost much more than the thirty phone calls we placed to our TA while we were on "vacation" :eek:

[~Nereus~]

http://www.halfthedeck.com/images/Tipping.gif

[~Nereus~]

Someone is playing with the numbers. Anyone who's ever worked with numbers knows that you can get them to say anything you want.

Mark Twain popularized in the U.S. Benjamin Disraeli's statement, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damn lies, and statistics."

[RuffinReady]

If you want to tip the lounge steward an additional amount each time you will need cash. You cannot adjust the service charge in the bars at all (up or down); it's 15%.Hi Ruth C. We have been on two long cruises on the Royal Princess. The lounge steward hands you a "bill" that includes the cost of the drink plus a 15% service charge. When we liked the service we would write on the face of the "bill" - $1.00 TIP. We checked with the server and were told that they got the $1.00 credited to their account as a tip. This made the so happy that when we went on the Royal Princess 9 months later for another 32 day cruise they ran up to us and welcomed us back aboard - BY NAME. They remembered our name. I don't know how it works on HAL ships now, but that was our experience on the Royal.

Ruffin

Bermuda Star (long time ago!)
S.S. France (Transatlantic -1965)
S.S Atlantic (Transatlantic, Mediterranean - American Export Lines - 1966)
Europa (Caribbean - 1969 - North German Lloyd)
Statendam (Caribbean - 1975)
Sunward (Bahamas - c. 1980)
Song of America (Caribbean - 1988)
Crown Princess (Alaska - 1999)
Royal Princess (B2B to South America - 2001)
Crown Princess (Baltic - 2002)
Royal Princess (B2B2B; Transatlantic, France, Belgium, Holland; Gt.Britain-2002)
Galaxy (Caribbean - 2003)

Prinsendam (B2B; Transatlantic NYC to Athens – May 2005)

[Krazy Kruizers]

You can not write an additional amount for tipping on your bar bills on HAL. Couldn't before the 15% gratuity was added on and still can't.

[Krazy Kruizers]

C 2 C

Loved it!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Quendryth

You mentioned that you were on the Infinity.

According to the article in Cruise Travel there is a $10.50 per day person tip added onto your bill if you decide to do as you did - charge upon request. I see that there is also a $3.50 per person extra tip added onto your account if you are in a suite and have a butler.

Is this true?

On Celebrity ships you are given a choice. You can either go to the main desk and have the "standard" gratuity added to your bill, tell them the specific gratuity you want added, or have nothing put on your bill and you can tip as you wish with the old envelope process.

Under no circumstances do they do any auto tipping unless you specifically ask them to do that. It's a very civilized policy IMHO.

A letter comes to your cabin a couple of days before the end of the cruise and they leave the choice completely in your hands where it should be. On our Millennium cruise last year, we chose to give our own tips in cash and no one got penalized for our choosing to do that.

[1cruiselvr]

Sorry to hear about your shipboard account troubles. It's my understanding that cash credit in HAL shipboard accounts are reflected in vouchers included with cruise tickets. We had one for $100pp for the trip and was included in our packet with the tickets. If you didn't have the voucher, then cash monies were not going to be in your shipboard account. If this subject had been brought up prior to departure when we were email chatting, we might have been able to start clearing this up before you left. Too bad, it might have helped resolve your problem earlier. I know you blame HAL, but I don't think your TA was the best either. Remember, they booked your departure airfare on the wrong day. Who knows if they handled your cruiseline shipboard credit correctly either. Just food for thought. Sorry your dream vacation wasn't the best.

[sail7seas]

kygal.....

lcruiselvr has made a good point IMO
If she is a TA with any experience booking HAL cruises, he/she should know that the coupon should be included in the document booklet that you received. That is the booklet that contained your cruise ticket. If that coupon was not there, she should have noticed it and contacted HAL to get it for you. The fault does not belong only with HAL in this case IMO
It seems, from the above post, that your TA did not do a thorough job of checking your documents.

I am sorry if I have misunderstood the 'trail' that these threads have indicated. From what I have read, this is the impression I have gotten.

[kygal]

Well hello 1cruiselvr...nice to "see" you again :D ..meeting 1cruiselvr was a plus on this cruise (please send cash, Santa broke me ..:rolleyes: ) just kidding!!

And thanks sail7seas for helping clear this up a bit!! I have been in contact with the TA today, and will be in future contact with her..I am sure!!

As my DH pointed out tonight, we are at home..safe..with our loved ones..some people don't even have that tonight...so I am sorry if I sounded rude or ungrateful..

we are all Blessed...
kygal

[sail7seas]

kygal....


You did not, at all, sound rude or ungrateful or anything other than disturbed that needless carelessness had a negative impact on your vacation. None of us would welcome that.

But, of course, it is always good to recognize and appreciate our good fortune.

Happy you are safely home with your loved ones.

[Quendryth]

We were billed $420.00 for the 15 days which did include a $3.50 pp/pd for our butler. If you are in a suite a butler is provided & it is an added tip. We had the butler do quite a bit of "running" for us, served several meals, brought us coffee, ice whenever we wanted it. He served us afternoon tea and appetizers every day. We would call him at 7:10 a.m. for coffee & he was there at 7:15! ONe morning we went to the Lido for our own coffee & he thought we were mad at him - had our pot & 2 cups waiting! We probably could have had the same service from our cabin steward, but not as quickly, I'm sure. The fact that our fare was so low, negated the cost of the tip to George! However there was nothing extra added - no $10.50.

I think the tips were for cabin steward, ass't housekeeper, butler, waiter, assistant waiter & butler. From $.350 to $.75. Of course without the butler it would have been somewhere around $105.00 less. I always leave the bill paying to DH! I just make them!

Spoke with DH about how we will do the tips on the Veendam & he said we will let them do the automatic thing & if we get bad service we won't sail HAL again. It is that simple & cut & dry to him.

[wander]

Well, I am obviously in the minority, but I like having the $10 automatically added.

Why do I support the plan - I have seen too many people on privous HAL cruises "stiff" the crew, and sometimes even brag about it. Granted, they have been in the minority, and granted they can still do it, but it will be more difficult and perhaps more uncomfortable. (Or perhaps I am dreaming.)

Why am I personally satified with the new approach? After over 20 cruises averaging over three weeks each, I have never, never received service or treatment from any of the ship's crew would lead me to give less than an average tip. I frequently gave "extra" for special service, and will continue to do so if deserved (IMHO). Likewise, if I had an experience bad enough to merit a sub-average tip or no tip, I would have to think about what to do, but to date I have not experienced anything even close to that. Maybe it is the "luck of the draw", maybe it is my "glass half full" attitude, maybe it is my smile, maybe it is the way I treat the crew or whatever, but the crew on all of my cruise ship and cruise line experiences, has always treated me so very, very well.

[PrincessMelody]

We went along with the automatic tipping, however I would much prefer that it be offered as an option, as another poster mentioned that Celebrity does. This would be a much more passenger friendly way of handling tipping, without making people feel forced. Some passengers may like the idea of not having to think about who to give tips to, and how much...whereas others may want to tip staff and crew individually. Tipping should always be a personal choice, IMHO.

[wander]

I just realized one of the reasons why I really like the automatic tips. I can have more fun giving extra to those who deserve extra. Before, on a 32 or 45 or 64 day cruise there was a lot of money to hand out. Actually giving out hundreds of dollars was sobering. Then to add even more seemed really spendy. Now, the amounts given may be the same under the new plan, but the $10 part is transparent to me at the time (until the cc bill arrives) so I really feel like the extra I am giving is special and deserved.

[tlmlb]

Management -
Pooling tips is a terrific way to build team unity and performance. Everyone has a stake in everyone's performance and if presented by management correctly, the team members will buy in and service levels will rise.

The tip pool can be adjusted for specific mentions in passenger evaluations. It can also be adjusted to reflect seniority. It provides more predictable income streams to the staff.

The key here is that passengers still must remember to reward individuals (read extra cash tips) for exceptional service. If they are really good, certain team members will still earn more than the average by these direct payments they can keep as well as pool differentials.

The everyone is out for themselves does not work nor belong in a team service environment.

Guest -
I like it because it is easier, I get airline miles for it on my credit card, I can still reward exceptional service. Who would ever not tip the minimum anyway? Its such a nominal amount! Think of it this way, the auto-tip is a service charge and the additional in cash is the merit amount. Back in 1988 on Sitmar I seem to remember that I tipped what I thought was fair; on a 10 day cruise I think it was about $400 for the two of us split among the appropriate personnel ($20 per person per day). I think the cruise fare was around 3500. My, aren't things a bargain todaY?

[the2ofus]

I thought tipping was for service over and above the expected level of service. HAL's advertising has always touted their smiling, smooth, beyond-the-expected service. We have tipped for beyond-what-we-expected service.

Now HAL has instituted auto-tipping and on this board we are discussing additional tipping to people who give service above the expected level. What expected level? What we used to expect or what we now expect because we are already auto-tipping for above-the-expected level service. Or are we merely tipping for mediocre service with the auto-tip? Where does the escalation stop?

More than ever, this just convinces me that the auto-tip is nothing more than a service charge instituted by the cruise lines to increase wages at no cost to themselves.

[~Nereus~]

I thought tipping was for service over and above the expected level of service. HAL's advertising has always touted their smiling, smooth, beyond-the-expected service. We have tipped for beyond-what-we-expected service.

This makes too much sense... are you trying to confuse the issue...?

First HAL advertised that tips were included in the price of the ticket, next tipping was optional, now tips are automatically charged.... not quite as part of the ticket price... just a surcharge... but you can still tip for exceptional service....?

[Golfgrl1911]

I just realized one of the reasons why I really like the automatic tips. I can have more fun giving extra to those who deserve extra. Before, on a 32 or 45 or 64 day cruise there was a lot of money to hand out. Actually giving out hundreds of dollars was sobering. Then to add even more seemed really spendy. Now, the amounts given may be the same under the new plan, but the $10 part is transparent to me at the time (until the cc bill arrives) so I really feel like the extra I am giving is special and deserved.

Wander......I must agree with you. However being very new to cruising I really don't know any different. For me it is less of a hassle trying to find EVERYONE on that last night who was very good to us during the cruise and I too tip extra ALWAYS. (I bring a stack of $1.00 bills with me for those everyday special touches.) For the crew member who brought us our coffee every morning, the room steward who made sure we had that extra bucket of ice twice a day to keep our beer, soda & bottled water cold, to the server who made me drink my "all you can drink" pina colada so she could refill it promptly. These are just a few examples of the staff that made my vacation one to remember and always with a smile. Perhaps it is because I have always been in the service industry that I find these services that many consider expected, to be above and beyond. Not to mention the smiles on their faces as well when they receive that extra stipend. Chef Nancy:)

[Opinions]

More than ever, this just convinces me that the auto-tip is nothing more than a service charge instituted by the cruise lines to increase wages at no cost to themselves.

Which ever way the cruise line increases wages it will be paid by the passenger...Or do you think their wages should never increase?

[~Nereus~]

Which ever way the cruise line increases wages it will be paid by the passenger...Or do you think their wages should never increase?

No but I would like some honesty...

Increase the ticket price and announce that this is for improved wages... every (almost) passenger knows how hard they work... tips were meant to reward excellent service... not to provide a basic wage..

[Krazy Kruizers]

We still give extra to those whom we feel deserve it - they have gone the extra mile to make our cruise enjoyable.

Of the $10, $3 goes to your cabin steward - we always tipped more than that - so if he does an excellent job we will give extra at the end of the cruise.

Of the $10, $3 goes to your waiter and his assistant - I still don't know exactly how much each one gets. But I do know that in the past we always tipped way more than that for them combined.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Quendryth

I thought I had figured it out correctly in my own mind - that it was $10.50 and $3.50 if you are in a suite on Celebrity making a total of $14 per day per person.

Thanks.

[DFD1]

We've been talking about this tipping business forty way to sunday for months now and I suppose that is good.

We just came back from 10 days on the Volendam......With the new SERVICE CHARGE, I like not having to fool with the envelopes on the last day. I continue to tip the waiter, busboy and cabin steward extra on the FIRST day of the cruise just like I always have.

We have not had any serious service complaints so I guess this system still works for us.

I still believe the auto tipping policy should be called what it is, a service charge - or, even better....add it to the cruise price and go back to "tipping not required", but I don't expect that to ever happen.

[JDee]

The tip pool can be adjusted for specific mentions in passenger evaluations. It can also be adjusted to reflect seniority. It provides more predictable income streams to the staff.


This is exactly one more reason against auto-tipping. Management can tinker with the tip. Why should someone with seniorty get more out of the tip pool if my contribution was based on the satisfactory service perfomed by a junior server at my table or cabin steward.

If tips were to be adjusted based on passenger evaluations, you can pretty much bet the ranch, that each and every person in the tip pool will plead, beg, and maybe even harass, each paying pax to put in a good word. Similar like the many CDs, waiers & others who may plead for a satisfactory rating on your evaluation questionnare. Would that mean the better the plead, the better the tip?? Many pax consider it a waste of time filling out the details & just breeze through the evaluation unless they have strong feelings one way or the other.

Just another tipper who prefers the old envelope method.....

[the2ofus]

Of course the wages of the crew should increase. I assumed that is part of what is covered in the price of the cruise. The auto-tip is a fee for service, pure and simple.

I have figured that if each cabin steward has 12 cabins with two people each, then they probably earn at least an average of $25,500 each in tips annually. That is on top of their wage. I don't know their wage structure, but the base wage, added to the tips would certainly be reasonable annual income for a maid in a hotel in the USA. I don't know what their expenses are, beyond the flights home from the ship. I do believe they don't pay any taxes on their wages or tips.

I have met many of the indonesian crew who have been very pleasant, genuine, kind people doing their jobs very well. Yes, I know that they work long hours and are away from their families for long periods of time. That is a choice they have made so that they can earn a higher wage than is available to them in their own country.

We all make choices and trade-offs in our lives. I chose a profession which gave me great personal satisfaction but one in which the wage was only average, tips were unheard of and bonuses were rare and gifts from clients were actually illegal. I now choose to make travel a priority in my retirement, but can't afford to throw my money around lavishly. When I tip, I want it to go to someone who has truly gone out of their way in my behalf.

[HeatherInFlorida]

No but I would like some honesty...

Increase the ticket price and announce that this is for improved wages... every (almost) passenger knows how hard they work... tips were meant to reward excellent service... not to provide a basic wage..
Yes.

Increase the ticket price to pay these people appropriately and let us go back to tipping for the purpose intended ... for service above and beyond what is expected.

There's really nothing complicated about it.

[ekerr19]

As an adult, I do not need a cruise line to tell me (or, for that matter to even suggest or recommend) a tipping amount. Still less am I pleased to be coerced to pay service charges in the guise of a tip - and when I don't have a choice, it is a service charge.

dave- well said, I couldn't agree more. Increase the cost of the cruise and let us "tip" as we see fit for the service we (as paying customers) are provided.

I have said all along - this is nothing more that a service charge designed to reduce HAL's financial responsibility towards its employees. It certainly cannot be considered a tip.

[Giorgi-one]

I disagree with the concept of tipping in general and the way it is applied. This includes restaurants, cruise ships, etc. All workers should be paid a fair wage based on their job description. This money should be included in the price charged by the owner (restaurant, cruise line, etc). Tips should be a bonus given for extraordinary service at the total discretion of the consumer. This would totally eliminate asking the rest of us to pay for the deadbeats and give more impetus to providing better service.

[Riviera Deck Randy]

I got my cruise travel in the mail today. Those improvements to the enchanment look interesting.

[Philip217]

Giorgi-one,

"All workers should be paid a fair wage based on their job description".

Very honorable thoughts. I agree absolutely and completely. Do you have any estimate as to the date when the US Government and United Nations will institute the policies that will make this happen?

Could you do me a favor and ask them to give all the schoolteachers a raise at the same time?

[~Nereus~]

Could you do me a favor and ask them to give all the schoolteachers a raise at the same time?

I thought that unions were created for that purpose...

[Philip217]

For those who might be interested, here is a bit of background on how Filipinos and Indonesians are recruited, trained, hired, and paid for cruise ship jobs around the world.

Government Regulations in the Philippines and Indonesia require that workers for overseas jobs (cruise ship employees) are recruited ONLY by government-sanctioned recruiting agencies in those countries.
Cruise Line companies must pay these agencies a hefty fee (several hundred dollars) for each employee supplied by the agency to the cruise line. Each employee must pay a hefty fee (several hundred dollars) to these agencies to give them the job. Often, when the employee goes home for vacation, he must pay the agency fee again to be allowed to return to his cruise line job.
Before the employee is allowed to go to work on a ship, he must go through "safety training" with the agency in his home country. This safety training costs several hundred dollars - paid in cash by the employee.
When the employee arrives at the ship where he will work, he signs his employment contract. This contract has been negotiated with the International Maritime Union that he MUST join if he wants to work. The contract is a standard legal contract, spelling out the terms of his employment. This is a legally binding contract between him and the cruise liine and cannot be changed without permission from the union.

With most cruise lines, if he receives tips of any kind, his salary will be US$50 per month. (Some cruise lines pay as much as $80, some as low as $40: $50 per month is about average). Monthly Union dues are removed automatically from that salary. Union Dues range from $20 to $40 per month, depending on position. The employees net salary (after paying union dues) will be something less than US$1 per day. He can earn a small overtime payment if he works more than 70 hours per week.

The cruise line provides lodging, food, and medical care to the employee. The employee (HAL) now pays for uniforms and transportation.

For tax collection purposes, the home governments require that a large percentage of the salary AND tips earned by these employees MUST be sent back home through the employment agencies. These agencies are hardly honest. They play games with exchange rates, skimming off a good percentage for themselves, plus charging "handling fees" for their troubles.
Whatever amount is sent back home shrinks dramatically before it reaches the family that relies on it to feed them and pay the bills.

Does anyone force these people to take these jobs under these conditions?
Life forces them to do so. They do not have the many choices that we take for granted. Unemployment in their home countries is out of control. Impossible to find high-ranking jobs pay nearly nothing at home. If they want their families to eat regularly, they borrow enough money to finance their job search for a cruise line position. It often takes them years to pay back the loans.

Should we feel sorry for these people? Thats up to you. In many ways they are luckier than the people they left at home.

Should we try to help them? Once again, up to you.

Should all the cruise lines add several hundred dollars to the price of every cruise in order to pay a fair living wage to all their tipped employees?
Probably.
Will they ever do it?
Probably not.

[~Nereus~]

That is a cruel, cruel system...

Is that the norm for every hiring country?

[Philip217]

C2C,

This is pretty much the way most countries do it. There are variations; some are better, some are worse. China is particularly bad.
The National Government in each country pretty much guarantees that it will not change. The cruise lines have very little choice but to go along with the federal regulations if they want to continue to hire nationals from a particular country. Too many politicians in those countries are getting rich with this system in place.

[~Nereus~]

Are you an English as a second language teacher in China?

[Philip217]

C2C,

No I work for a major cruise line - and write books on cruising.

[JDee]

Exploitation of workers is nothing new. The USA has done, and still does to a great extent. In fact, the good old USA probably perfected it, taking lessons from the British, French, Spanish, etc., you name it....... Who do you think built our railroads?

Where do you think all those tomatoe, strawberry, citrus, grape, apple, etc., workers come from? Think any of them have 40l(k) plans?

Guess some could call it the free enterprise system.....

What I'm trying to say is, don't put the blame on workers exploitation on other countries. It happens right here in the USA, like it or not....

Happy crusing....

[dakrewser]

Many similar conditions apply to craft workers such as plumbers in the US. Only here we call it the union system.

It's very easy to paint any system as bleak and abject provided you choose the right words and point of view. But the bottom line is that, unless there was a steady stream of willing workers, none of these systems would still be in place.

Would I choose to work under those conditions? No, I would not. On the other hand, I wouldn't work in a union shop, either. But there are many who voluntarily choose one or the other. I do not criticize them for the choice, nor do I pity them for it. Nor do I attempt to pass judgement as to the correctness of their choice or the system.

-dave

[~Nereus~]

Nor do I attempt to pass judgement as to the correctness of their choice or the system.
-dave

We are who we were born... for the most part..
We make a judgement by every action, statement and post we make...

we decide to agree or disagree with previous statements... and pass judgements on other posters

[RuffinReady]

C2C - Well said.

Ruffin

Bahama Star (long time ago!)
S.S. France (Transatlantic -1965)
S.S Atlantic (Transatlantic, Mediterranean - American Export Lines - 1966)
Europa (Caribbean - 1969 - North German Lloyd)
Statendam (Caribbean - 1975)
Sunward (Bahamas - c. 1980)
Song of America (Caribbean - 1988)
Crown Princess (Alaska - 1999)
Royal Princess (B2B to South America - 2001)
Crown Princess (Baltic - 2002)
Royal Princess (B2B2B; Transatlantic, France, Belgium, Holland; Gt.Britain-2002)
Galaxy (Caribbean - 2003)


Prinsendam (B2B; Transatlantic NYC to Athens – May 2005)

[dakrewser]

we decide to agree or disagree with previous statements... and pass judgements on other posters
Nonesense (a disagreement). I can disagree with your opinion or argue your facts without judging you as a person. I simply don't have the necessary information to make that judgement.

-dave

[tlmlb]

Exploitation of workers is nothing new. The USA has done, and still does to a great extent. In fact, the good old USA probably perfected it, taking lessons from the British, French, Spanish, etc., you name it....... Who do you think built our railroads?

Where do you think all those tomatoe, strawberry, citrus, grape, apple, etc., workers come from? Think any of them have 40l(k) plans?

Guess some could call it the free enterprise system.....

What I'm trying to say is, don't put the blame on workers exploitation on other countries. It happens right here in the USA, like it or not....

Happy crusing....

Very good point.

What do you think "outsourcing" is? It is exploitation on many levels, the U.S. worker put out of a job, the foreign worker, all U.S. taxpayers that have to make up the tax revenue lost through displaced workers and corporate incentives. Are the cheaper products worth it? They can only come at the expense of others from these "market imperfections" that companies exploit.

[ekerr19]

Are the cheaper products worth it?

No, that is why so many people in this country refuse to business with certain establishments and corporations that continually engage in exploitation... I believe it is important for each consumer to be congnizant of where their goods and services actually come from.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Very good point.

What do you think "outsourcing" is? It is exploitation on many levels, the U.S. worker put out of a job, the foreign worker, all U.S. taxpayers that have to make up the tax revenue lost through displaced workers and corporate incentives. Are the cheaper products worth it? They can only come at the expense of others from these "market imperfections" that companies exploit.

It is us Americans who have encouraged "outsourcing". We demand higher pay and no one wants to be the guy at the bottom anymore. We want all the latest high tech products, but we really don't want to pay what it would take to have those products made here in the U.S. In some cases, yes. In most cases, no. It's a hard cold fact that outsourcing is here to stay. And no one is happier with it than the folks doing the work overseas. They don't feel exploited at all and desperately want these jobs. The pay is a lot more than they would get otherwise.

And try to find a television or DVD, etc., that is made in the U.S.A. that's going to be even half as reliable as those made overseas. And then there's "foreign" cars, many of which are assembled right here in the good ole USA by people making more money because the parts are being made by lower paid workers overseas.

So at the same time we are outsourcing many jobs, there are also a ton of jobs here at the higher pay we demand because of that outsourcing.

I remember on a recent Celebrity cruise the CD was asked why they don't hire more Americans to serve on their ships. The CD responded that Americans are more than welcome and often recruited, but they don't want to work for the salaries the cruiseships can afford to pay based on what we are willing to pay for our cruises. It's a vicious circle and there is no easy answer here.

I could write a thousand pages on this, but that would be silly. There are a million arguments on both sides and we could argue forever. But no matter what we say, it's not going away as long as we Americans continue to want what we want for what we're willing to pay.

[RuffinReady]

This thread has gone far astray from the subject which was supposed to be on tipping. Now we are in the 4th link and the subject is now more related to politics, and opinions on economics than on tipping.

It is time for the moderator to terminate this thread.

Ruffin

[jhannah]

Agreed!

[dakrewser]

Meatloaf!

[~Nereus~]

This thread has gone far astray from the subject which was supposed to be on tipping. Now we are in the 4th link and the subject is now more related to politics, and opinions on economics than on tipping.

It is time for the moderator to terminate this thread.

Ruffin


http://www.gifs.net/animate/setupz.gif

[JDee]

Yes, certainly true that the topic is on tipping. However, many of the postings clearly stated the reason for their generous tipping was due to the poor working conditions of the crew, underpayment by the cruiselines, long work hours, being away from home, etc. And of course many mentioned the excellent service provided, but at the same time, they would tip anyway due to the need of money by the crew to send home to their poverty stricken kin. Believe those postings pretty well opened the door for a wide interpretation of what this post is about....

And what about the threads on the recent disaster, fund raising for those HAL employees, should they be removed?? Just where do you draw the line?? The line is not set in concrete.

For those who have had their fill of this thread, just let your fingers to the walking....

Happy cruising.....

[RuffinReady]

http://www.gifs.net/animate/setupz.gifWow, if that was a "flame" job directed at me, I am impressed with the how subtle it was. I don't even feel singed.

Ruffin

[HeatherInFlorida]

JDee, very well said!!!! You really tied it all together well. I knew there was a reason we got where we got! :)

[JDee]

Heather, Thanks for the kind words.

Happy cruising......

[~Nereus~]

Give me one site that stays on topic and I'll give you a brief site...

We are free to read, debate, agree, disagree, and move on if the topic(s) don't interest us... and smile while I wander

Now where were we... tipping:

http://www.thetyee.ca/Life/current/TippingTrouble.htm

[~Nereus~]

This thread has gone far astray from the subject which was supposed to be on tipping. Now we are in the 4th link and the subject is now more related to politics, and opinions on economics than on tipping.

It is time for the moderator to terminate this thread.

Ruffin

One more time... just read this on the Princess site:

http://messages.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=109779

[HeatherInFlorida]

Hmmmm....weeeeeell, I just read Laura's message on the Princess boards and I don't know what's been going on over there, but I have to say I think we're all a little bit guilty from time to time of saying that someone's post is not entirely relevant to a thread. Or sometimes we suggest that someone is getting a little too critical of the original OP ... things like that. So if that rule were strictly enforced on our boards, I think there would be a lot of very short threads:o . JMO;)

[RuffinReady]

Sorry folks, I didn't mean to get out of line. :eek:

I want To Insure Prompt Service. :)

Ruffin

[~Nereus~]

Tough to walk the straight and narrow...it makes us human when we wander a bit.... I've had my own knuckles rapped for my sometimes (un)subtle posts :o

My tipping joke cartoon is a no no... :eek:

[damdamsels]

I have cruised before but DH has always handled the tips. I am cruising with some ladies and want to make sure this is an enjoyable and great cruise. Do you suggest tipping the room steward on the first day instead of the last. Also for the waiters. I plan on leaving the auto-tip on our accounts but want to make this a special time. We are celebrating 2 80th birthdays. Also if I tip the room steward $20 will that be sufficient on top of the auto tip. Thanks for your help. Anyone else I should be thinking about tipping extra. I want to make sure we bring enough cash along.

[RuffinReady]

Do you suggest tipping the room steward on the first day instead of the last. Also for the waiters. I plan on leaving the auto-tip on our accounts but want to make this a special time....
I want to make sure we bring enough cash along.
We have never been on a cruise with an auto-tip. When deserved, our practice on long cruises is to tip at the end of each week telling them that will be our practice. I will probably supplement the auto-pay for better than average service ? (Philip217) on our next cruise weekly, as we will be on a 26 day cruise. You may be able to charge the tips to your shipboard account insteat of using cash, your choice if available.

Ruffin

[JDee]

I have cruised before but DH has always handled the tips. I am cruising with some ladies and want to make sure this is an enjoyable and great cruise. Do you suggest tipping the room steward on the first day instead of the last. Also for the waiters. I plan on leaving the auto-tip on our accounts but want to make this a special time. We are celebrating 2 80th birthdays. Also if I tip the room steward $20 will that be sufficient on top of the auto tip. Thanks for your help. Anyone else I should be thinking about tipping extra. I want to make sure we bring enough cash along.I am not a fan of tipping room steward or waiters on the first day. Since you intend to leave the auto-tip in place, see no reason to. If the cabin steward and the waiters perform services beyond what you would normally expect, you can alway give any extras you feel warranted on the last night of the cruise. How much is always a personal decision and will refrain from commenting on that .

Happy birthdays and happy cruising.....

[scamper]

It's my understanding that if you have the auto-tip removed from your account and tip on your own, or if you tip a crew member above-and-beyond, they have to put that amount in the pool to be disbursed with the rest of the service staff...right?

[dakrewser]

It's my understanding that if you have the auto-tip removed from your account and tip on your own, or if you tip a crew member above-and-beyond, they have to put that amount in the pool to be disbursed with the rest of the service staff...right?

That's true only if you have the auto-tip removed. Keep it in place and you can dole out more to anyone which they get to keep for themselves.

[boards]

On a 14 day cruise, do you usually tip at the end of the first week or is it perfectly okay to wait till the end of the cruise if you are going to tip extra.
This is of course with leaving the automatic tipping in place.

[HeatherInFlorida]

We'll see what others say, but I would say that if it's a B2B then I would tip both weeks separately since they might change Stewards or Waiters, etc. But if it's continuous cruise, I'd wait until the end. That is, of course, if you're like me and tip only at the end. Some here like to "tip" in advance to assure good service during the cruise. A personal choice, I think.

[scamper]

That's true only if you have the auto-tip removed. Keep it in place and you can dole out more to anyone which they get to keep for themselves.

When I first read your response, my immediate reaction was: okay, so let's say that you tip whom you want when you want throughout the cruise and then on the last night go to the office and tell them to take the auto-tip off your account. What are they going to do? Ask every service crewmember if they had been tipped in cash by the guy that had the auto-tip removed from his account and ask them to put it in the pot? So I called HAL reservations and spoke with an agent (who said her superviser spends time on Cruise Critic...they're watching!) and she checked with said superviser who verified your response. The agent had the exact same reaction that I had about tipping and then asking to have the auto-tip removed. Anyhoo...I've decided to keep tipping as I always have and leave the auto-tip on as a bonus.

[dakrewser]

When I first read your response, my immediate reaction was: okay, so let's say that you tip whom you want when you want throughout the cruise and then on the last night go to the office and tell them to take the auto-tip off your account. What are they going to do?

The crew turn in all tips. After the cruise if you do not remove auto-tipping then the tips are returned to them....

[boards]

Thanks Heather-in-Florida, that is what we had planned to do and that is tip at the end since it is a 14 day continuous trip.

[scamper]

The crew turn in all tips. After the cruise if you do not remove auto-tipping then the tips are returned to them....

Well...that's just goofy. But...whatever.

[RuffinReady]

Dave.now I understand why you are looking forward to Puerto Vallarta :D

Ruffin

-dave
http://www.divertimenti.com/PuertVallarta/mex.pv.1.gif
Oosterdam - 1/22/05

[dakrewser]

Dave.now I understand why you are looking forward to Puerto Vallarta :D



Oh darn, now I'll have to change the picture again or someone is sure to let Makrewser know! :rolleyes:

-dave

[MnFrozen2]

I read the same article with great interest, then decided to do a little math. At $10.00 per person x 1800 people the math was simple and came to $18,000.00, I then divided that between the approximate 900 staff members and that came to $20.00 per crew member for the total 7 nights...........hmmmmmm

I think you should recheck your math. It should look more like this:
$10 per person x 1800 = $18,000 (per day)
$18,000 x 7 = $126,000 (per 7 day cruise)

If you take the 800 Crew members (as listed at HAL) and subtract about 200 for Officers, management, operational, and engineering staff, I came up with a number of 600 for service oriented staff members taking part in tipping. (This is only a guess)

If everyone were to get the same amount, that would leave us with:
$126,000 / 600 = $210 per service staff employee, for a 7 day cruise

You can play with the ratios and percentages in various ways and still come up with the conclusion that it's not allot of money (per employee). I think anyone providing good to great courteous service could blow that number away on a given night!

-IMHO

[MnFrozen2]

I read the same article with great interest, then decided to do a little math. At $10.00 per person x 1800 people the math was simple and came to $18,000.00, I then divided that between the approximate 900 staff members and that came to $20.00 per crew member for the total 7 nights...........hmmmmmm

I think you should recheck your math. It should look more like this:
$10 per person x 1800 = $18,000 (per day)
$18,000 x 7 = $126,000 (per 7 day cruise)

If you take the 800 Crew members (as listed at HAL) and subtract 200 for Officers, management, operational, and engineering staff, I came up with about 600 for service oriented staff members taking part in tipping. (This is only a guess)

If everyone were to get the same amount, that would leave us with:
$126,000 / 600 = $210 per service staff employee, for a 7 day cruise

You can play with the ratios and percentages in various ways and still come up with the conclusion that it's not allot of money (per employee). I think anyone providing good to great courteous service could blow that number away on a given night!

-IMHO

[BBsailor]

I read the same article with great interest, then decided to do a little math. At $10.00 per person x 1800 people the math was simple and came to $18,000.00, I then divided that between the approximate 900 staff members and that came to $20.00 per crew member for the total 7 nights...........hmmmmmm
Take the $ 20 per crew member daily rate x 7 for a week long cruise and that equals $140 per crew member per week. Probably half of the crew is not eligible for tips so it could add up to a much higher figure.

[RuffinReady]

If I took my DW out to a average dinner for say $50.00 total, and the service was good I would leave a 20% tip or $10.00. On the previous arrangement of $3.50 per day per person for the dining room waiter that would amount to $7.00 per dinner. So if we are going to tip based on an average dinner or $50.00 per couple it would seem that we should be paying $10.00 per meal served not $7.00. Certainly the room steward works at least as hard as a waiter, so I think that he is worth $10.00 also. Since we don't have sitdown breakfast and lunch those servers are not getting anything directly under that plan.

It seems to me that all of this is a lot of falderal and you would be best served by using some common sense and try to place yourselves in the shoes of the server.

Ruffin

[Open pod bay doors, HAL]

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 3 characters.

[sail7seas]

This is so weird. This very old thread got brought forward by the above message?

Strange.......

[RuthC]

The message you have entered is too short. Please lengthen your message to at least 3 characters.
:confused::confused::confused: What does this mean? Especially on a thread that's so old?

[Susie51]

I like automatic tipping because it is convenient. I leave it in place and give extra to those who provide exceptional service.

[sapper1]

:confused::confused::confused: What does this mean? Especially on a thread that's so old?
That is the message you receive if you post your reply ahead of the final "[/quote] " in the message of the person you are replying to. When that happens I just cut and repaste my reply after the quote. I didn't realize that the error message could be posted as a reply on the boards.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I too did a double take when I saw my old thread brought up. -- It is -- what -- 3 years old?

And - boy -- have the rules changed.

[agabbymama]

I actually like the auto tip, although now it's called a hotel charge. Everyone knows you are expected to tip, but trying to determine the amount and plan to have that cash left over after a week of cruising isn't always easy. Now that it is part of the shipboard account, there is no hassle, and it's all taken care of. If you still choose to leave extra, you can. Or if you got the service you expected, but nothing over the top, the "hotel charge" takes care of it in my book.

I cruised Carnival in 1989 with my daughter and they left the envelopes in your cabin (a pretty strong hint to me that it was expected), so the cost to me was double. Then in 1999 I cruised HAL with my husband and the cost was still double to us, and they still provided the envelopes.

I didn't cruise again until 2004, with NCL, they had gone to the auto tipping. Cruised with RCCL also in 2004 and again with the auto tipping.

Then in 2006 went with Celebrity and they had the auto Hotel Charge. But they gave you an evelope with the pre-printed position names, with a voucher to reflect you had left the auto tip on.

Again with HAL in 2007 with auto tipping (I don't remember if it was called hotel charge or auto tip.) No envelopes to deal with though.

And Just returned from Princess Oct '08 and it was not called auto tipping, it now was called Hotel Charge. We did ask at the Purser's desk for envelopes as we did want to leave some extra for our cabin attendant and our waiter.

While it used to be called a tip (gratuity), it really wasn't. To me it's an additional part of the cruise cost, as it is expected. Always has been, always will be. The cruiselines aren't going to change it, be it for profit reporting, tax increases, or just because it is.

The same as the cruiselines aren't going to change their contract with the wording "...itinerary can be changed for weather related issues, mechanical issues, or for any reason whatsoever..." As long as those words remain in the contract, they are not obligated to make sure you get where they say you are going. They could cruise to nowhere for the week, and you are supposed to be satisfied that you are on indeed on a ship cruising somewhere. It took 7 cruises for me to finally miss a port, so guess I've been lucky, I went where I thought I was going. Missed Mykonos on the last cruise.

So if you are going to cruise, you have to abide by the cruiselines rules, and just accept them.

[RuthC]

I too did a double take when I saw my old thread brought up. -- It is -- what -- 3 years old?
Four, KK. :eek: Notice the wrinkles? We're all getting older than we think. ;)

[iflyrc5]

At the disembarkation talk last week on the Prinsendam the CD said of the $11 per day per person hotel charge that 70% went to your waiter/asst waiter and cabin steward/asst and the remaining 30% went to the behind the scenes crews. The 15% added to the beverages went to the person serving the drinks.

[merilynee]

Our Cruise Travel magazine came in the other day and I didn't have a chance to read it until this morning.

There was a very interesting article in it about tipping. Stein Kruse said that 90% of the passengers do like the new auto-tipping policy. He said that service levels have improved as well. " "Motivation is up," he contends, noting that the new arrangement provides tips to some service personnel who previously did not receive gratuities. "Food preparers now have a share in a small percetage of the tipping as well. There is an incentive to assure that the food is as good as possible, arrives as hot as posible." "

We just finished a cruise on HAL Rotterdam. The tipping increased to $11.00 per person per day . We have sailed over 100 days on HAL and have always had very good service but for some reason on this last cruise the service was the worst we have ever had

[jtl513]

The 15% added to the beverages went to the person serving the drinks.On most (maybe all) HAL ships the beverage service charges are pooled with the entire bar staff, shipwide. The 15% included in on-line orders of wine/coffee/soda cards and other alcohol also goes into the pool. So your server gets a share of the 15%, but not all of it.

[GeriatricNurse]

On most (maybe all) HAL ships the beverage service charges are pooled with the entire bar staff, shipwide. The 15% included in on-line orders of wine/coffee/soda cards and other alcohol also goes into the pool. So your server gets a share of the 15%, but not all of it.


So the information, as stated in Post #136, would be incorrect, whereby, apparantly the CD on the Prinsendam stated that the 15% goes to the server?

[jtl513]

So the information, as stated in Post #136, would be incorrect, whereby, apparantly the CD on the Prinsendam stated that the 15% goes to the server?Yes, that's exactly what I'm saying. I don't know precisely what the CD said, or how the poster interpreted what he said. The 15% goes directly to the bar staff, but not entirely to the specific person who serves you. If the CD said it goes directly to the servers, that would be correct.

If it was anything other than this way, how would HAL distribute the 15% service charges on everything sold on-line? How would they fairly allocate the 15% on a wine card purchased from one person in the dining room but used all over the ship? Or on a card sold in the terminal by someone who has not served anything?

Pooling all the beverage service charges is the fairest thing to do for the staff assigned to the less-active bar areas.

[Bobed1927]

HeatherInFlorida---We have cruised on the Royal Viking Sun many times and then on it when it became the Seaborn Sun. I'm sure that you know that it is now the Prinsendam. We sailed on the Prinsendam once and it was far from the cruising experience we had on the ship previously but, of course, we paid much less.

[kryos]

Pincus

When the policy first went into effect last May, we were told that of the $10, $3 goes to your room steward, $3 goes to your dining room waitstaff (they were not specific as to how much the waiter and his assistant get individually), and the other $4 is divided by among the "behind the scenes" crew.


I believe $4 goes to the waitstaff now.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Barocl]

It hard to see the assistant under this system. He is running to the kitchen continually to bring the orders. He usually brings 8 to 10 orders at a time then returns to the kitchen with new orders from his waiter. Normally by the time all the courses are served he is there to serve the drinks, (coffee, tea, etc) Then depending on his waiter he may go for all the cakes and pies, which once again the waiter serves. This is one reason why you don't see the assistant very often. Take care.

[English_in_Spain]

Reading through this thread, I have also done some calculations.

It has been stated that cabin stewards look after 14 cabins each and they get $3 out of the $10 we tip.

Assuming an average of 2 people per cabin this mean that a cabin steward gets 14 cabins x $6 x 7 days = $588 a week.

Even if the steward is not paid a salary and just gets these tips I think that $588 a week with food and accommodation paid is a very good salary for a job which does not require any formal qualifications.

[kryos]

Even if the steward is not paid a salary and just gets these tips I think that $588 a week with food and accommodation paid is a very good salary for a job which does not require any formal qualifications.
I agree. And that's why these folks are so willing to be away from their families at home for such long lengths of time. They are paid very well for it. In fact, I would guess that the average waiter or cabin steward on HAL is actually making a better wage than many of us are, when you factor in that we have to pay for our living expenses too.

Now, don't get me wrong ... I'm not complaining about that. I'm just saying that these people are not so overworked and underpaid as we often think. Quite the contrary, I think many of them are doing very well. Sure they work hard. Wouldn't you expect them to? But it's not like they are doing it for nothing.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[jtl513]

I believe $4 goes to the waitstaff now.

Blue skies ...

--ritaI've heard many times that the cabin steward gets 35%, the dining room team gets 35%, and 30% goes to everybody else. If they kept the percentages the same with the change to $11/day, that means it would break down to $3.85/$3.85/$3.30.

Reading through this thread, I have also done some calculations.

It has been stated that cabin stewards look after 14 cabins each and they get $3 out of the $10 we tip.

Assuming an average of 2 people per cabin this mean that a cabin steward gets 14 cabins x $6 x 7 days = $588 a week.

Even if the steward is not paid a salary and just gets these tips I think that $588 a week with food and accommodation paid is a very good salary for a job which does not require any formal qualifications.A new system is being implemented where two cabin stewards work as a team for about 30 cabins, so if they are now getting $3.85/p/day that would mean $7.30 x 30 x 7 days= $1533/wk or $766.50 each if the senior and junior stewards are paid equally. But they often work 14 or 15 hour days, and extra on the final night when the baggage is hauled down for offloading. That means they're working about 100 hours per week, and grossing just over $7 per hour - before transportation, uniform, and union expenses. That's not what I would call a "very good salary" for a job that keeps me away from home and family for 10 months a year! :)

[Hlitner]

Geez. Should we be surprised that a Cruise Magazine article puts a positive spin on anything favorable to the cruise lines? Yes, the auto-tipping policy on many cruise lines does make things easier for we passengers. On the other hand, the various formulas used to distribute the auto-tips are troubling to me, and we have often cancelled auto-tips in favor of directly tipping those who give us service. On some lines, the auto-tips are distributed to personel who do not provide any direct services (such as the laundry, housekeeping supervisors, etc). This would be similar to a restaurant customer sending tips into the kitchen for the cooks, dishwashers, the cleaners, and the laundry. If cruise lines choose to underpay their staff that is an issue between the line and their employees. But, to try to "hang a guilt trip" onto their customers that we should be responsible for paying all of their staff is just ricidulous. On lines such as RCI where auto-tips (you must select the option on this line) are distributed to only the direct service staff (they give it to your waiter, asst. waiter, maitre'd, and cabin steward) it's a good option. On lines where its split between nearly everyone on the ship it is just a hidden price-increase and to even call it a tip or gratuity is simply gratuitous!

Hank

Hank

[Taxguy77]

Geez. Should we be surprised that a Cruise Magazine article puts a positive spin on anything favorable to the cruise lines? Yes, the auto-tipping policy on many cruise lines does make things easier for we passengers. On the other hand, the various formulas used to distribute the auto-tips are troubling to me, and we have often cancelled auto-tips in favor of directly tipping those who give us service. On some lines, the auto-tips are distributed to personel who do not provide any direct services (such as the laundry, housekeeping supervisors, etc). This would be similar to a restaurant customer sending tips into the kitchen for the cooks, dishwashers, the cleaners, and the laundry. If cruise lines choose to underpay their staff that is an issue between the line and their employees. But, to try to "hang a guilt trip" onto their customers that we should be responsible for paying all of their staff is just ricidulous. On lines such as RCI where auto-tips (you must select the option on this line) are distributed to only the direct service staff (they give it to your waiter, asst. waiter, maitre'd, and cabin steward) it's a good option. On lines where its split between nearly everyone on the ship it is just a hidden price-increase and to even call it a tip or gratuity is simply gratuitous!

Hank

Hank
You will be flamed, but you are correct. Add the Hotel Service Charge, Tip, or whatever they want to call it onto the cost of the cruise. Then add Port fees, fuel charge and whatever else they add = cost of the cruise. Simple!
Then add cost of transportation to and from the ship (including hotel if applicable), and beverages (if you're not a camel) and you are about to the cost of your vacation!:)
Many people also like to visit ports, the casino, shops on board, and/or specialty resturant.

[mariner]

The auto-tip was the worst thing for service on HAL, or any other line for that matter.

It catered to the credit-card bunch who paid for their cruise and didn't want to spend another dime on their vacation. WHo ever told them once you pay your fare, you don't have to pay anything else, LIED!

Service has suffered. Then again, Stein never cruised under the old system. And his system is just plain dysfunctional.

[sail7seas]

Reading through this thread, I have also done some calculations.

It has been stated that cabin stewards look after 14 cabins each and they get $3 out of the $10 we tip.

Assuming an average of 2 people per cabin this mean that a cabin steward gets 14 cabins x $6 x 7 days = $588 a week.

Even if the steward is not paid a salary and just gets these tips I think that $588 a week with food and accommodation paid is a very good salary for a job which does not require any formal qualifications.

This is no longer true.
They now have a new system under which a cabin steward and assistant clean all cabins. This is the first time we had two stewards and our service was fantastic, our cabin was always well cared for but,,,,,,,,,,,, it always has been. It was another pleasant young man to chat with but our service was identical to what we have always had and that is Excellent.

Of course, we tipped him in addition to the 'primary' steward (Dadang). Both were excellent.If people were failing to tip one steward, how many do you think are tipping two?

Even for people who are prepared and pleased to tip for the excellent service we receive, there comes a point where how many envelopes does one hand out? I have no way of knowing if it is more efficient to have two stewards working as partners cleaning cabins or not but as a guest, I'm not crazy about the idea.

[Pettifogger]

jtl513: You estimated the wages of the crew "before transportation, uniform, and union expenses" but they told us their transportation was paid by HAL and I would have guessed that their uniforms were provided by HAL. Am I misinformed?

[the yo yo]

I just returned from a 14 day HA cruise. I was pleased with much of HA's service but was displeased with enough of it to question the $11 per day per person "voluntary" tip charge. The Lido Deck was particularly bad. When I met with the front desk staff I was told that if I wished to opt out of the $11 charge I would have to sign a statement to that effect along with a reason why. My name would then go on a print out and any tips that I gave directly to staff members, who I thought performed well, would have to be turned in to the front office by them and would go into the same pool as the collected $11 dollar charges. Thus, this does not appear to be a "voluntary" way to reward HA's staff but rather a way for HA to get passengers to subsidize the staff's wages. How about HA paying the staff and letting passengers make the decisions about who deserves a tip? I have seen the last of HA.

[GeriatricNurse]

I just returned from a 14 day HA cruise. I was pleased with much of HA's service but was displeased with enough of it to question the $11 per day per person "voluntary" tip charge.The Lido Deck was particularly bad. When I met with the front desk staff I was told that if I wished to opt out of the $11 charge I would have to sign a statement to that effect along with a reason why. My name would then go on a print out and any tips that I gave directly to staff members, who I thought performed well, would have to be turned in to the front office by them and would go into the same pool as the collected $11 dollar charges. Thus, this does not appear to be a "voluntary" way to reward HA's staff but rather a way for HA to get passengers to subsidize the staff's wages. How about HA paying the staff and letting passengers make the decisions about who deserves a tip? I have seen the last of HA.


Was it one of the HAL ships where the trays had been removed from the Lido?

[Krazy Kruizers]

jtl513: You estimated the wages of the crew "before transportation, uniform, and union expenses" but they told us their transportation was paid by HAL and I would have guessed that their uniforms were provided by HAL. Am I misinformed?

A couple of years ago we were told by one of wine stewards that they had to pay for their own uniforms.

Now -- I have not asked any recently -- so that could have changed.

[Jade13]

I just returned from a 14 day HA cruise. I was pleased with much of HA's service but was displeased with enough of it to question the $11 per day per person "voluntary" tip charge. The Lido Deck was particularly bad. When I met with the front desk staff I was told that if I wished to opt out of the $11 charge I would have to sign a statement to that effect along with a reason why. My name would then go on a print out and any tips that I gave directly to staff members, who I thought performed well, would have to be turned in to the front office by them and would go into the same pool as the collected $11 dollar charges. Thus, this does not appear to be a "voluntary" way to reward HA's staff but rather a way for HA to get passengers to subsidize the staff's wages. How about HA paying the staff and letting passengers make the decisions about who deserves a tip? I have seen the last of HA.

So, what did you end up doing?

We have always left the auto tip and always extra to our steward. I actually do not like the idea of two stewards as I will feel like we need to leave extra to both...

[Hlitner]

I just returned from a 14 day HA cruise. I was pleased with much of HA's service but was displeased with enough of it to question the $11 per day per person "voluntary" tip charge. The Lido Deck was particularly bad. When I met with the front desk staff I was told that if I wished to opt out of the $11 charge I would have to sign a statement to that effect along with a reason why. My name would then go on a print out and any tips that I gave directly to staff members, who I thought performed well, would have to be turned in to the front office by them and would go into the same pool as the collected $11 dollar charges. Thus, this does not appear to be a "voluntary" way to reward HA's staff but rather a way for HA to get passengers to subsidize the staff's wages. How about HA paying the staff and letting passengers make the decisions about who deserves a tip? I have seen the last of HA.


WOW! This sure sounds like voluntary gratuities! NOT. HA is not the first cruise line to "quietly" tell some passengers that any tips given directly to staff must be turned-in by the staff (or they lose their jobs). But the reality is that any cash you give a staff member is between you and him/her and nobody else knows if and how much! HA has sure come a long way from the days of "no tipping required" standard. This current phony tip scheme can be very easily corrected by increasing the cruise cost by $11 per passenger day and going back to the "tipping not required" policy of years past.

[Nasmas]

We complained loud and hard when we first received notice of the 'automatic' tipping. I, for one, don't believe for a minute that the crew gets all that money. My opinion only, but I'll bet HAL takes an 'accounting' fee out of the money. Our cabin stewards have always been good, but I have noticed in the bars that service is not nearly as good as it used to be when they were working for tips. I do think the crew is overworked. If they are not waiting tables, they are assigned another job. Also, several years ago, there was a lawsuit about HAL making them pay for their own transportation. Plus, I'll bet they pay a fee for cleaning their uniforms, rooms, and food. Of course, I doubt we'll ever know for sure. It seems the cruise lines have gone the way of the airlines. They are going to nickle and dime us to death. Once you've paid for your cruise, you'd better count on several hundred (or thousand) more dollars before you're finished. If I didn't love cruising so much, I'd give up cruising and flying. But, they know we're hooked. As evidenced by a lot of the 2009 cruises being almost sold out in several stateroom categories. We're looking for a March or April cruise in the Caribean in a SS but they seem to be few. We can do a guarantee but who knows what you'll get?

[mariner]

HAL makes them pay for their uniforms and transportation home.

No, they don't get the full amount of the tip.

Barenders get the most of the 15%. Not the full amount, but the most. Wine stewards get the least.

Many of the oldtimers are pretty disgusted. But that's their life and they hope for passengers who will tip over and above and try to give that level of service.

[sail7seas]

We always have wonderful service in all areas on all HAL ships. We have never left a ship feeling service was dependent upon giving additional gratuities though all who know us know we always tip extra.

We dined in Pinnacle the last night of our recent Maasdam cruise and DH excused himself from the table to quickly go to the dining room and thank the stewards and say Farewell. We wouldn't dream of leaving a ship without saying thank you in the 'universally accepted manner.' These stewards deserve it and it is our pleasure. We also tip in the lounges....... they always serve us well and promptly and we are happy to thank them as well. I don't care what percent they get from the 15% added to the check. I don't need to know that. We can decide for ourselves how much extra we choose to tip. It has always been our habit to budget tips into our cruise expenses the same as we add in all other additional expenses we expect to incur.

I'd be embarrassed to walk away and not 'say thank you'.

[Nasmas]

So am I, most of the time. And on the cruises we always tip in the bars if the service is worth it. I remember before the automatic tipping, we'd go into the Crow's Nest and the waiters would trip over themselves to wait on us. The last cruise we were on, we hardly ever went to the Crow's Nest because the staff wasn't very accomodating. That was the worst we've seen. The casino bar staff was amazing as were some of the others. Also, the Lido bar staff was not nearly as good as they were before. Maybe it wasn't the automatic tips but it certainly appeared to us to be. Maybe it was just the ship. Who knows? But that's my opinion. I know why they did it, but I think some of the people that never tipped before will have no qualms about having the charges removed from their bill. I heard several say before this policy was implemented that 'we're not tipping. We don't have to.' I think this attitude stinks but I would also like to decide who gets my money.

[Randyk47]

While we weren't particularly supportive or excited about the auto-tip we have left it in place for our cruises. In addition we now tip out-of-hand to selected staff who we feel have done that little extra to make our cruise enjoyable and memorable. Typically that has meant we've given our cabin steward, Crow's Nest, Neptune Lounge concierge, and dining room staff additional amounts. Of that group I'd say our dining room out-of-hand tips have been the least frequent and, in fact, we gave none on our last cruise as the service in the dining room was marginal at best. In fact, we've seen a very distinct drop in service over the years in the dining room. Not sure if that's the auto-tipping or the obvious change in the server to table ratio or what but dining is no longer one of the highlights of our HAL cruises.

[Himself]

tipping is a way of saying thank you. If you would want to give an additional tip to someone who has gone out of the way for you that would be most apropos, in my humble opinion.

[james j feller]

SAIL,

If i read your post correctly are you saying that HAL employees should be grateful for their jobs and forget tips , you have a job, good enough ?

JIM

[serendipity1499]

HeatherInFlorida---We have cruised on the Royal Viking Sun many times and then on it when it became the Seaborn Sun. I'm sure that you know that it is now the Prinsendam. We sailed on the Prinsendam once and it was far from the cruising experience we had on the ship previously but, of course, we paid much less.

In case you are wondering why your post was not answered by Heather...Heather has not regularly been posting on Cruise Critic for the past several months..You probably don't realize that this thread was started 4 years ago (2004) & no one has actually posted on it since 2005 until it was revived 4 days ago in a most unusual way..

I honestly can't understand why anyone would revive a 3 or 4 year old tipping thread, since there have been many changes in service & tipping since Stein Kruse gave his interview..JMO

Randyk47, I somewhat agree with you..We tried Any time Dining in Alaska in August & the service was spotty.. Some nights OK & other times very poor..For the first time we did not give extra to our Dining room Stewards..

However, in Nov. we were confirmed on the "Maasdam" at the last minute for a Thanksgiving Cruise & had to accept Anytime Dining with our Friends who were previously confirmed for late seating..Fortunately we had another group of 4 at our large table of 8, who we were very compatible with.. We all convinced the Matre d' to give us the same table & same Stewards every night.. We had a wonderful time & excellent service wi..We all gave our Stewards an extra tip over & above the auto-tip as they deserved it..

Merry Christmas &[/COLOR] Happy Hanukkah everyone..[/COLOR]

Betty

[bepsf]

...Stein Kruse said...
...that service levels have improved as well..."

Like he would know what the regular paying passengers experience...:rolleyes:

...of course service levels for him are better - He drags all of them away from serving the rest of us when he's aboard.
:cool:

[sail7seas]

SAIL,

If i read your post correctly are you saying that HAL employees should be grateful for their jobs and forget tips , you have a job, good enough ?

JIM


I never said anything of the sort. Anyone/everyone who knows me here full well knows there is no one who loves the HAL crews more than DH and me.

Please re-read if you are confused as to what I said.

Thank you.

[kryos]

Of that group I'd say our dining room out-of-hand tips have been the least frequent and, in fact, we gave none on our last cruise as the service in the dining room was marginal at best. In fact, we've seen a very distinct drop in service over the years in the dining room. Not sure if that's the auto-tipping or the obvious change in the server to table ratio or what but dining is no longer one of the highlights of our HAL cruises.And this is particularly tragic for them. I honestly don't think the problems with slow service are the fault of the servers at all, but rather are the result of something wrong in the kitchen ... lack of adequate staff? Equipment problems? Something else? Whatever it is, it is causing service in the dining room to suffer and naturally that is resulting in less tips for the servers. Most of the time that I've been sitting in the dining room, twidling my thumbs while waiting for my next course, there have been tons of servers just standing around with nothing to do. I'm sure if they had plates of food, they would only be too happy to serve them, but the simple fact is they don't. Something is holding up that food back in the kitchen.

HAL really needs to take a look at the whole kitchen/dining room area and find out what the problems are and then fix them.

Also, AYWD I am sure has also negatively impacted the servers' tips. If you only have a service team one night of your seven night cruise, you're not likely to tip them extra ... not like you would if you enjoyed the attentions of the same wait team all week. You're not going to give an extra tip to anyone if you wound up eating in the Lido for three nights because dinners in the dining room were taking so long that you just didn't have the energy to go there on those nights and endure the long waits.

So, in some respects I really feel for the servers in the dining room and hope they are advocating on their behalf to get the service-related problems resolved.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Randyk47]

Kyros - Good points and observations. I'm not sure what the problem is and interestingly it's been inconsistent. By that I mean we were on the Volendam in 2006 and had absolutely great service and food. Took us back to our first cruise on the Ryndam so many years ago. In 2007 we were on the Veendam and really looking forward to the dining experience of the previous year. Well, it didn't take but a night or two and hopes of repeating the previous year's experience were dashed. The service was poor and the food was maybe the worse we'd ever had on a cruise. This was a 14-night cruise so we had a number of nights that getting ready for dinner were just not all that exciting. Even the Pinnacle Grill on that cruise was below standard. Quite frankly the Veendam cruise was the one and only time we've seriously considered taking off the auto-tip though in the end we left it in place. Because of health problems and the timing of my retirement we didn't cruise in 2008 but we're planning again and we're talking a lot about food quality, entertainment, cabin comfort, and overall service. We're seriously questioning whether or not we'll try another line and thinking about the impact of auto-tipping in light of our less than satisfactory Veendam experience.

[GeriatricNurse]

Kyros - Good points and observations. I'm not sure what the problem is and interestingly it's been inconsistent. By that I mean we were on the Volendam in 2006 and had absolutely great service and food. Took us back to our first cruise on the Ryndam so many years ago. In 2007 we were on the Veendam and really looking forward to the dining experience of the previous year. Well, it didn't take but a night or two and hopes of repeating the previous year's experience were dashed. The service was poor and the food was maybe the worse we'd ever had on a cruise. This was a 14-night cruise so we had a number of nights that getting ready for dinner were just not all that exciting. Even the Pinnacle Grill on that cruise was below standard. Quite frankly the Veendam cruise was the one and only time we've seriously considered taking off the auto-tip though in the end we left it in place. Because of health problems and the timing of my retirement we didn't cruise in 2008 but we're planning again and we're talking a lot about food quality, entertainment, cabin comfort, and overall service. We're seriously questioning whether or not we'll try another line and thinking about the impact of auto-tipping in light of our less than satisfactory Veendam experience.



How about Oceania?

[Randyk47]

We're looking at several different lines. It's not that we're giving up HAL but it doesn't hurt to look around and consider alternatives. If we hadn't have done that years ago we'd still be cruising with Carnival. Auto-tipping is not going to be the driving factor though, even with the poor food and service on our last cruise it wasn't like it was the "cruise from hades".

[Tess111]

Your calculation is off by # of days, it should be $20/day x 7 day cruise = $140/crew member.

[brucory]

Your calculation is off by # of days, it should be $20/day x 7 day cruise = $140/crew member.

Who are you replying to? This thread has not been active since December last year when a few posts were applied after it had been dormant for several years...

:D:D:D

[jhannah]

Maybe she's shooting for the oldest ressurected thread award! ;)

We can speculate and calculate all day long. Fact is, none of us know the exact formula used to distribute the service charge among the designated recipients. It's not my concern, IMO. I certainly don't give a thought to what my server at The Prime Rib or Chili's is being paid. Why should I when on a cruise ship?

[suse]

if you have nothing else to do. I particularly like the mathematical formulas and associated gyrations. Well, I'm off to start the day. Have a good one everyone.:)

[serendipity1499]

Your calculation is off by # of days, it should be $20/day x 7 day cruise = $140/crew member.

Tess realize you are quite new to this board..First of all welcome to the boards..

Just a helpful hint..When you reply to a post it's easier for all of us to understand who you are replying too..As brucorey mentioned, we don't know who's post you are replying to & therefore your post is confusing us....

If you use the quote button at the bottom of the post you are replying too, we will understand your post..Thanks..

Now a thought for those of us who are re-reading this Old thread..Don't you find it amazing that someone would resurrect a thread after 4 years (Dec. 2008) & more amazing that some of us (including me) are replying to a thread which is five years old!;);)

Now that the auto tipping on HAL has been in place for more than 5 years, I've completely changed my thoughts on it..Hated it in the beginning..Now I'm happy with it & also find that we can still add to the tip & reward a little extra to those who have made our cruises extra special..

To be honest with you..HaL's old policy of "tipping not required" was dumb & often mis-understood by many new HAL cruisers as well as some mis-informed Travel Agents...

On our first HAL cruise in 1998 our TA told our entire group (Sailing Club) that the tip was included in our fare.. We had wonderful service & extraordinary Stewards especially in the Dining Room..Unfortunately none of us tipped only out of sheer ignorance.. :(I still feel very bad about that! :o

JMO..Betty

[world~citizen]

This makes too much sense... are you trying to confuse the issue...?

First HAL advertised that tips were included in the price of the ticket, next tipping was optional, now tips are automatically charged.... not quite as part of the ticket price... just a surcharge... but you can still tip for exceptional service....?

This is a topic that we have discussed over and over on this board.

For some, the wages of serving staff are so meagre that tipping for them is obligatory and the auto tip is welcome. For others, well, if the serving staff have problems with their remuneration they should get another job, and the auto tip is just another excuse to pick a persons pocket every cruise. I suppose others fall somewhere in between.

It always surprises me when the self professed "most generous people in the world" choke when it comes time to pony-up for a gratuity.

Smooth sailing...

[John Cruise]

Also remember that the crew are aware of which passengers have chosen not to participate in the tipping program.

[pris993]

Even though this thread is 5 years old, not much has changed in 5 years. Some of the comments about slow service in the diningroom, could be said about any of the main cruise lines, especially on the large ships.

We have experienced the same on Princess, Celebrity and HAL over the past 10 years and all of them have established the auto tip systems.

The thing I find somewhat amazing is they all claim to have done so to reward those behind the scenes. I have heard in the past that the crew/staff always shared tips with those behind the scenes anyway. This was done because the staff knew they had to work as a team to provide the best service. With slow service these days more the norm I wonder if something has been lost in "team work"?

We too find ourselves skipping the MDR, sometime going to the Lido because we are tired of the slow service in the diningroom. As a result we find ourselves tipping the minimum in the MDR to the waiter/assistant.
And we tip in cash directly to those to add value to our cruise experience in the LIDO and elsewhere when service is provided. So we still tip about the same amount each cruise but differently.

I think it would be more interesting to know how the staff/crew feel about auto tip vs passengers. I really wonder if the staff/crew feel they are getting a better deal with auto tip?

[bepsf]

I really wonder if the staff/crew feel they are getting a better deal with auto tip?

I'll be sure to ask.
;)

[GatorV]

What a riot!! i am reading along wondering why all the strange new avatars are showing up all of a sudden and why we are back on the auto tip with such emotion since they've been around for so long...finally glanced at a date in the corner!!!! i had a good laugh!:D

some things just do not change! folks still take exception to the auto tips and always will...

[Signor John]

>>I respectfully disagree with Mr. Kruse. It has not been my impression while aboard the ships that 90% of the pax like this new policy. FAR from it IMO<<

Maybe it depends on the demographics of the cruise. Some itineraries may attract more cheapskates than others do. :-)

IMHO, individual tips made sense in the old days when everyone had an assigned seat in the same dining room with the same steward at every meal, and when transactions were made with cash instead of being recorded in a shipboard account and charged to a credit card. Today, with open seating, alternative dining venues, snack bars like the Terrace Grill, etc., and with cash being removed from daily transactions, it makes sense to adopt the approach that HAL and many other lines have taken. As for the notion that crew should just be paid more to make tipping unnecessary, that's a great idea in theory, but it won't happen until every cruise line is willing to violate antitrust laws by agreeing to raise fares in lieu of having tips or "hotel service charges."

[sail7seas]

Our Cruise Travel magazine came in the other day and I didn't have a chance to read it until this morning.

There was a very interesting article in it about tipping. Stein Kruse said that 90% of the passengers do like the new auto-tipping policy. He said that service levels have improved as well. " "Motivation is up," he contends, noting that the new arrangement provides tips to some service personnel who previously did not receive gratuities. "Food preparers now have a share in a small percetage of the tipping as well. There is an incentive to assure that the food is as good as possible, arrives as hot as posible." "





>>I respectfully disagree with Mr. Kruse. It has not been my impression while aboard the ships that 90% of the pax like this new policy. FAR from it IMO<<

Maybe it depends on the demographics of the cruise. Some itineraries may attract more cheapskates than others do. :-)

IMHO, individual tips made sense in the old days when everyone had an assigned seat in the same dining room with the same steward at every meal, and when transactions were made with cash instead of being recorded in a shipboard account and charged to a credit card. Today, with open seating, alternative dining venues, snack bars like the Terrace Grill, etc., and with cash being removed from daily transactions, it makes sense to adopt the approach that HAL and many other lines have taken. As for the notion that crew should just be paid more to make tipping unnecessary, that's a great idea in theory, but it won't happen until every cruise line is willing to violate antitrust laws by agreeing to raise fares in lieu of having tips or "hotel service charges."


Signor John......

You are aware the thread was started December, 2004, right?
Opinions have certainly changed. Experience on the ship throughout the evolution of automatic tip has evolved. What may or may have not been true in December 2004 could/probably is very different today.

And, No....... not everyone on HAL ships are 'cheapskates'. :D

Broad generalizations are never very accurate.

Interesting this old thread has come forward.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I couldn't believe that this nearly 5 year old thread was brought back to the first page.

Times have changed -- things have changed -- opinions have changed.

[Bill HaHa]

I, for one, like the new policy and always tip extra when the service warrents it. It means I do not have to carry too much extra cash for tips

[serendipity1499]

I, for one, like the new policy and always tip extra when the service warrents it. It means I do not have to carry too much extra cash for tips

It's not a new policy...It's been in effect for 5 years...This thread was first started in 1994...

I also agree with it now, although I did not agree with it when it first started..As Sail says opinions & things can change..

I wish I knew how to start a confidential poll to see how people on this board feel now that it's been in effect 5 years....

Would anyone else be interested & would you be willing to make a confidential poll?

My questions would be:

1) I prefer the Auto tip
2) I prefer the Auto Tip & also give a cash tip for extraordinary service to those who deserve it..
3) I believe the auto-tip is sufficient & no cash tip is necessary..
4) I prefer to give only a cash tip to those who we believe deserve it

I'm sure others could add to the questions but the poll would have to be completely confidential in order to get honest opinions..

I don't know how to do it..Is anyone else interested besides me?.. Betty

[jhannah]

I would do it for you, Betty, but it's against my religion to start a tipping thread! ;) ;)

[boom_boom]

We're just back from our 3rd HAL cruise, but the first once since they put the auto tip in place. While I've never experienced service poor enough that I wouldn't do at least the recommend amount, I do not like the polcy. I probably leave less this way, at least to the room steward and waiter, than I did when we had to lay out the cash.

[serendipity1499]

I would do it for you, Betty, but it's against my religion to start a tipping thread! ;) ;)

LOL...:)Had a good laugh & completely understand Jim..:D.

Somehow, these threads will never die completely..
They always seem to be reserected..! ;)

[Krazy Kruizers]

It's not a new policy...It's been in effect for 5 years...This thread was first started in 1994...

I also agree with it now, although I did not agree with it when it first started..As Sail says opinions & things can change..

I wish I knew how to start a confidential poll to see how people on this board feel now that it's been in effect 5 years....

Would anyone else be interested & would you be willing to make a confidential poll?

My questions would be:

1) I prefer the Auto tip
2) I prefer the Auto Tip & also give a cash tip for extraordinary service to those who deserve it..
3) I believe the auto-tip is sufficient & no cash tip is necessary..
4) I prefer to give only a cash tip to those who we believe deserve it

I'm sure others could add to the questions but the poll would have to be completely confidential in order to get honest opinions..

I don't know how to do it..Is anyone else interested besides me?.. Betty

I have absolutely no idea how to start a poll.

But I like your idea!!

[serendipity1499]

We're just back from our 3rd HAL cruise, but the first once since they put the auto tip in place. While I've never experienced service poor enough that I wouldn't do at least the recommend amount, I do not like the polcy. I probably leave less this way, at least to the room steward and waiter, than I did when we had to lay out the cash.

Well we normally add to the Auto tip with an extra cash tip for extraordinary service....Only once on HAL did we not add a cash tip, for our cabin Steward..He did only what he had to do & frequently forgot some of our small requests..

See that you have cruised both on Oceania & Princess..

Oceania also has an auto tip, but it is tiered..Don't know about Princess though..

We loved Oceania & believe that their auto tipping was an excellent way to do it..Those in suites with Butler service were charged more for the Auto tip than those of us in outside cabins.. When we cruised on them believe it was $11.50 & $13.50 per day..Can't remember as on our cruise our tips were paid by either the Travel Agent or Oceania.. We also received a rebate on the air, since air was included & we drive to the port..

However, we added a substantial cash tip to those who served us directly..We had extraordinary service from Everyone!

Betty

[Jade13]

We like the auto-tipping but prefer it was just "pre=paid" which is what they do on the "luxury" lines. We have been on two this year, including SilverSeas, and its nice to have it all included. On our upcoming Azamara pre-paid tips were offered directly by the cruise line earlier this year, so again, I like the way Azamara is handling this.

[serendipity1499]

I have absolutely no idea how to start a poll.

But I like your idea!!

Thanks KK..The problem is ...The guidelines on starting a poll look easy...I can't find anything anywhere on how to do a confidential poll..

I think a Confidential poll is only way that posters will be completely honest..

Betty

[jtl513]

Thanks KK..The problem is ...The guidelines on starting a poll look easy...I can't find anything anywhere on how to do a confidential poll..

I think a Confidential poll is only way that posters will be completely honest..

BettyIn the process you're given the option of making it anonymous or not. IIRC the default is anonymous.

Edit: I just went and looked at a couple of polls I started, and they were anonymous, so I know it can be done.

[pipedreams62]

http://static.berryreview.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/09/deja_vu.gif

[suse]

very funny. An old subject that just lives on and on. Tipping. Right up there on the "my favorite things"', remember Julie Andrews?:)

[pipedreams62]

very funny. An old subject that just lives on and on. Tipping. Right up there on the "my favorite things"', remember Julie Andrews?:)


"Pick A Pocket Or Two" How do you think I tip?:o

http://w1.303.telia.com/~u30303363/18.jpg

[serendipity1499]

In the process you're given the option of making it anonymous or not. IIRC the default is anonymous.

Edit: I just went and looked at a couple of polls I started, and they were anonymous, so I know it can be done.

OK...Thanks JTL..I'll attempt to make a poll later this evening..

Does anyone have any other ideas that should be added to the list of questions?


1) I prefer the Auto tip
2) I prefer the Auto Tip & also give a cash tip for extraordinary service to those who deserve it..
3) I believe the auto-tip is sufficient & no cash tip is necessary..
4) I prefer to give only a cash tip to those who we believe deserve it

Please let me know before I attempt to Post the poll.... Thanks..

Betty

[suse]

Rose to the occasion.:) Take a curtsey. Show your gratitude.;)

[suse]

Please, no poll. Oh no.:eek:

[pipedreams62]

Please, no poll. Oh no.:eek:


It's only a "Dream"

http://www.gonemovies.com/WWW/MyWebFilms/Drama/WizardTinManClose.jpg

[serendipity1499]

deleted

[serendipity1499]

Please, no poll. Oh no.:eek:

Will you really be offended if I post a poll on the auto tipping?:confused:

If others are offended & tired of it, I won't bother..Just tell me what you think..

Betty

[shandryl]

Someone is playing with the numbers. Anyone who's ever worked with numbers knows that you can get them to say anything you want.

So I would ask Mr. Kruse 90% of what group likes the new tipping policy? I complained once to a local service company and was told that 90% all respondents to a recent survey gave positive feedback.

That's like saying 4 out of 5 dentists who chew gum recommend Trident.


Your finny!! LOL good answer! :D

[Signor John]

Forget about a "confidential poll," because the results would be meaningless. Responses would come from only a small sample of HAL passengers--more specifically, from those who (a) frequent this forum, (b) are reading the "tipping" thread or the poll, and (c) feel strongly enough about the topic to respond. To be meaningful, a poll would have question all passengers or--more realistically--a random sample of all passengers.

In any case, there's no need for a poll or survey, because HAL already has the ability to measure customer satisfaction with the "hotel service fee" policy simply by tracking the percentage of passengers who adjust the fee at the reception desk.

[brucory]

Will you really be offended if I post a poll on the auto tipping?:confused:

If others are offended & tired of it, I won't bother..Just tell me what you think..

Betty

Go for it...Post the poll. You said you didn't know how to do it before, so there is only something good to come from learning something new.

Also, there are not that many polls on this board. People like to say that "most people do this" or "most people like this" etc. Polls give a little evidence to those arguments - or take away from them, particularly the anon ones.

:D:D:D

[Warren1]

Will you really be offended if I post a poll on the auto tipping?:confused:

If others are offended & tired of it, I won't bother..Just tell me what you think..

Betty

I don't mind the auto tipping orginally I didn't know how much to tip. and who to tip.
in the old days the bar waiters were very friendly, and always tipped them 10 percentof my tab. Ok i am cheap. They entertained you. give you two examples. when tipping was optional. one waiter said you give me two dollars and i will give you one back. What he did with that one dollar, he told some wild funny story, while playing with that one dollar bill. at the end of the story he would ask for my wifes hand. He turned that bill into a ring It was amazing to see When he placed that ring on my wifes finger, he would say, you don't have to give me anything but would appreciate my dollar back. just so i can entertain the couple over there.

he did double his money and got a tip to go with it.

another bar waiter, brought us our bill, and asked for our card, came back a few minutes later. OHhhhhhhhh no he said i gave those people your card by mistake, you both have the same last name. (which did) he said i'm too embrassed to go over there and retrieve you card back.
he took our drinks and said help me out of this situation. and placed them on the other couples table.
He got a good tip for making the moment enjoyable and funny
and we talked to those people every time we seen them in the bar.

you do get good service today, but not the people trying to go that extra, for something extra. Today its manitory and no insentive for them to really try.

now i know how much not to tip.
its already on the bill.

[serendipity1499]

OK..Everyone...I'm going to try to do the poll only because..To me it's so funny that this thread was resurrected after five years..Yes folks this thread is almost five years old..Look at the date it was first done!

Krazy Kruzers started this thread December 26th, 2004,

At that time there was a big brouhaha (sp?) on this board when "Stein Kruse said that 90% of the passengers do like the new auto-tipping policy.":

Just remember that was in 2004...

At that time many of us were very opposed to the Auto tipping..

Of course this poll will only show if some of us who have paid the auto tips for almost 5 years now feel differently about it..I really don't care what other HAL passengers think, I'm just polling this board to see what my fellow CC posters now feel about it..

Lets see what happens..:)Betty

P.S. I also think it's comical that some posters are still oresponding to posts which are almost 5 years old..:D:D

[suse]

I'm never, ever offended by polling. It can be fun. Varying opinions and all that. Go for it.:)

[michmike]

Haven't read this whole thread and so perhaps am just echoing what others may have already said, but....

When this topic has come up in the past, I've been one who has maintained that the best thing HAL could do is call it what it is.. a "service charge" and make it mandatory and unable to be removed. That would take so much of this angst out of the issue. Face it, staff have to be paid fairly and under the previous tipping system we all agree that many ducked out the last nite and didn't treat staff fairly.

As for the reductions in the level of service that many cite. it is far more related to HAL's ill considered staffing cuts than to laziness on the part of the staff now that they know some level of tip is assured.

We still tip above and beyond the auto tip for personal service as do many of you who travel on a regular basis.

Making it a service charge would also make it unnecessary to spend all this time fretting about who gets what out of the $10 daily charge.

How many folks sharing stories of cruising today for what they paid 15 yrs ago do you need before you understand that something has to give?

Do you try to remove the "resort fee" when you stay at an upscale hotel? Granted it's a crock. A 4 or 5 star hotel should be EXPECTED to have a pool, gym, sauna, hot tub, etc and yet they think nothing of adding a fee of $12-20 a day for the use of those facilities. Our professional association just had its annual conference in Grand Rapids. Michigan at the best hotel in town and yet folks were charged a $5 fee per stay for the use of the pool/gym and $10 a day for internet access while places like Days Inn and Super 8 provide it for free.

It's here to stay. It ought to be non-negotiable. And those of us that are still fortunate enough to be able to cruise in the current economy ought to just factor the cost in when we make our travel plans.

[world~citizen]

When this topic has come up in the past, I've been one who has maintained that the best thing HAL could do is call it what it is.. a "service charge" and make it mandatory and unable to be removed. ...

Apparently if you do that it becomes taxable revenue to the cruise line - a gratuity is not.

Smooth sailing...

[jtl513]

When this topic has come up in the past, I've been one who has maintained that the best thing HAL could do is call it what it is.. a "service charge" ...

Apparently if you do that it becomes taxable revenue to the cruise line - a gratuity is not.
It IS called a Hotel Service Charge on the HAL site, on your bill, etc. I think they should make it non-removable.

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as our dining room wait staff and the stewards who tend to your stateroom each day. There are also many others that tend to your care that you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge of US$11 per passenger is automatically charged to each guest's shipboard account. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their total compensation package. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

[serendipity1499]

It IS called a Hotel Service Charge on the HAL site, on your bill, etc. I think they should make it non-removable.

HOTEL SERVICE CHARGE

Our crew works very hard to make sure that every aspect of your cruise meets the highest standards. This includes those crew members who serve you directly, such as our dining room wait staff and the stewards who tend to your stateroom each day. There are also many others that tend to your care that you may never meet, such as galley and laundry staff. To ensure that the efforts of all of our crew members are recognized and rewarded, a daily Hotel Service Charge of US$11 per passenger is automatically charged to each guest's shipboard account. If our service exceeds or fails to meet your expectations, you are free to adjust this amount at the end of the cruise. The Hotel Service Charge is paid entirely to Holland America Line crew members, and represents an important part of their total compensation package. A 15% service charge is automatically added to bar charges and dining room wine purchases. In terminals, airports, ports of call and on shore excursions, we suggest that you extend gratuities consistent with customary local practices.

I agree with you..Many land based resorts charge an 18% Hotel service charge & it can't be removed..I don't understand why one should be able to remove it on a Cruise..

After all if we had to pay $18% of our cruise fare, it would be almost double what we now are charged by HAL for the Hotel Service charge at $11.00 a day..

Betty

[world~citizen]

It IS called a Hotel Service Charge on the HAL site, on your bill, etc. I think they should make it non-removable.
[/COLOR]

I couldn't agree with you more.

Smooth sailing always...