Elimination of Life Jackets at Lifeboat Drill?

[SabreSailor]

I've seen some threads that mention that life jackets are no longer required to be worn at the lifeboat drill? Is this across all HAL ships?

Questions:

Is this legal?

If people who are new to cruising haven't tried on their life jackets, how will they know how to do it if an emergency were to occur? We all have seen newbies with some strange ways to wear them, which the crew used to immediately correct.

And by the way, how many won't know where to find the life jackets???

Guess you get the picture that as a 45 year sailor on small cruising sailboats I think that knowing how to find and put on a life jacket is step one to safety. Why would HAL not see this as well? Not enough real emergencies? May I remind them that it only takes one....

[Himself]

I learned of it on a thread on this page. I think they still do the drill but I gather without life jackets. I am surprised if it is true. Invariably people have to be helped to get the jacket on correctly. It is good that this is done on drill day. God forbid that there would ever be an emergency. That would not be the time to make sure every life jacket was properely donned. So I hope this is a short lived experiment.

[jtl513]

So I hope this is a short lived experiment.Unfortunately, I can't think of any other HAL experiments in the last couple of years that haven't eventually become permanent fleet-wide. :(

[mszula]

I'm glad to hear this. I've never seen a lifejacket that wasn't filty dirty from various folks sweating in them weekly. Several years ago I got a itchy rash only on the skin that was exposed to the lifejacket. Ick. This will make the drill much more comfortable.

Putting them on isn't rocket science and I think that in a real emergency it wouldn't be tough to figure it out.

[Copper10-8]

..............
Putting them on isn't rocket science and I think that in a real emergency it wouldn't be tough to figure it out.

Good luck with that assumption!:cool:

[jtl513]

Putting them on isn't rocket science and I think that in a real emergency it wouldn't be tough to figure it out.If so many people can't do it right when there is no pressure, why do you think they could do it right in a real emergency situation? :confused:

[YXU AC*SE]

Do you try on your life vest during your airline safety demonstration? Do you feel any less safe for not having done so? Could most people even quickly locate their airline life vest in an emergency situation? Do you have a home evacuation plan? Have you practised it? Interesting how we easily rationalize certain risks. :D

That said, I was doing some research to see what SOLAS regs had to say -- and the latest version of SOLAS Ch III reg 19 that I could find online (http://74.125.47.132/search?q=cache:6QtNJvwgVEwJ:www.infomar.org/files.php%3Ffile%3DChapter_III_750570295.doc+solas +chapter+iii&cd=7&hl=en&ct=clnk&client=safari) states, in part:

Regulation 19

Emergency training and drills

This regulation applies to all ships.

Familiarity with safety installations and practice musters

- Every crew member with assigned emergency duties shall be familiar with these duties before the voyage begins.
- On a ship engaged on a voyage where passengers are scheduled to be on board for more than 24 h, musters of the passengers shall take place within 24 h after their embarkation. Passengers shall be instructed in the use of the lifejackets and the action to take in an emergency.
- Whenever new passengers embark, a passenger safety briefing shall be given immediately before sailing, or immediately after sailing. The briefing shall include the instructions required by regulations 8.2 and 8.4, and shall be made by means of an announcement, in one or more languages likely to be understood by the passengers. The announcement shall be made on the ship's public address system, or by other equivalent means likely to be heard at least by the passengers who have not yet heard it during the voyage. The briefing may be included in the muster required by paragraph 2.2 if the muster is held immediately upon departure. Information cards or posters or video programmes displayed on ships video displays may be used to supplement the briefing, but may not be used to replace the announcement.

Drills

Drills shall, as far as practicable, be conducted as if there were an actual emergency.

Every crew member shall participate in at least one abandon ship drill and one fire drill every month. The drills of the crew shall take place within 24 h of the ship leaving a port if more than 25% of the crew have not participated in abandon ship and fire drills on board that particular ship in the previous month. When a ship enters service for the first time, after modification of a major character or when a new crew is engaged, these drills shall be held before sailing. The Administration may accept other arrangements that are at least equivalent for those classes of ships for which this is impracticable.

Abandon ship drill

Each abandon ship drill shall include:

- summoning of passengers and crew to muster stations with the alarm required by regulation 6.4.2 followed by drill announcement on the public address or other communication system and ensuring that they are made aware of the order to abandon ship;
- reporting to stations and preparing for the duties described in the muster list;
- checking that passengers and crew are suitably dressed;
- checking that lifejackets are correctly donned; [emphasis added]
- lowering of at least one lifeboat after any necessary preparation for launching;
- starting and operating the lifeboat engine;
- operation of davits used for launching liferafts;
- a mock search and rescue of passengers trapped in their staterooms; and
- instruction in the use of radio life-saving appliances.

I am not sure how HAL is able to get around the lifejacket piece? But in their defence, no one seems to have the full SOLAS regs online, so I am not entirely sure if I am quoting the most up to date version above. IMO wants you to buy them for 65 quid!

Scott.

[kathiag96]

I was on a Carnival cruise in January (the Rock Boat) and we didn't have to wear the life vests at muster either. My understanding is that once a month, the muster drill requires the passengers to wear them, but for some reason, they aren't required for every cruise anymore.

On a side note, I've been lurking here for the last month or so as my husband and I are doing an Alaskan cruise on HAL with my parents in June. We are really looking forward to the trip as it will be our first cruise with HAL. We've been on several previous cruises, but they were all affiinity charters (all Rock Boats) on Carnival.

[Cruise Fanatic]

I am glad to hear that HAL is changing wearing of life vests at lifeboat drill. I was on a Princess cruise this past December, and I can honestly say that it was very easy. We just carried our vests, were assigned to a public lounge (a mustering station) and given instructions as what to do in case of an emergency.
.
I would hope that HAL would start implementing something like this. The way that they do it now, passengers are hearded like cattle, you can't hear the instructions half of the time. I just feel that they could improve how the drill is conducted.

[ore-ee-gun]

On our Noordam cruise last month, not only did they not require life jackets, nobody asked for our cabin number, and no roll was taken. I have no idea how they knew who did or did not attend. I will say that it was by far the shortest muster drill I've experienced.

[rjm1cc]

I think the Coast Guard approved the change. Can not see why they would take a chance on breaking the law on something this visable.

[bulgargirl]

Good luck with that assumption!:cool:


Lol. Can we just call it survival of the fittest for the ones that can't figure out a lifejacket?

[AlanAllyn]

I know that Celebrity has also done away with wearing life jackets at muster and that the Oasis of the Seas has life jackets near the life boats, not in the cabins.

[funlovin'cruiser]

Passengers shall be instructed in the use of the lifejackets and the action to take in an emergency...

Information cards or posters or video programmes displayed on ships video displays may be used to supplement the briefing, but may not be used to replace the announcement...

Each abandon ship drill shall include:
- checking that lifejackets are correctly donned; [emphasis added]
- lowering of at least one lifeboat after any necessary preparation for launching;
- starting and operating the lifeboat engine;
- operation of davits used for launching liferafts;
- a mock search and rescue of passengers trapped in their staterooms; and
- instruction in the use of radio life-saving appliances.



Hey - I just narrowed down the quote from SOLAS above ;) On the Ryndam last month , as on all ships now it seems from posts on this thread and others, HAL has stopped requiring passengers to take their lifejackets with them. However, we had a detailed VIDEO (second line in the quote - supplemental information) that was showing in our stateroom upon arrival about how to put on the jacket and there was a demonstration in front of EVERY lifeboat by the lifeboat leader on how to put on the lifejacket, accompanied by the Cruise Director or Captain (couldn't remember) giving verbal instruction on how to don the life jacket. Why can't people attend the instruction, watch the video and then try it in their stateroom - if they have problems, I am sure that with a call to the Front Office, someone would come and show them how to put the jacket on correctly.

Also, about the third quote - I believe that this is in relation to the drills that the crew perform while in port, not the muster drill - the fire drills that lead into abandon ship/raft drills. In our daily program we had an annoucement that a drill would be taking place in Roatan for crew members and that any guests who wanted to take part could assemble at one of the lifeboat stations with their life jackets and would be checked and briefed. Apparently no passengers showed up though. You can tell that this does not apply to the muster drill, because if you read the above, we all know that they don't lower at least one lifeboat into the water on every embarkation day and start up the lifeboat engines but they have lowered rafts and lifeboats during the crew drills on most of the cruises that I have been on.

[funlovin'cruiser]

One other thing - they sent away passengers who brought their lifejackets with them. The traffic directors in the hallways stopped a couple that were insisting on taking them and actually took the jackets from them citing safety reasons and said that they would be returned to their stateroom for them. The Cruise Director made about 4 announcements prior to the drill that passengers were not to bring their jackets and they were checking at the doors out to the Lower Promenade deck. Just a FYI for all those people that have stated that they are taking their lifejacket "no matter what HAL says"

[Y's Owl]

On my Maasdam cruise in November, we still had to wear our jackets on deck. I think the newer ships have new jackets that are easier to put on so there is less need to try them on. I am glad we did put them on because it is harder than it looks to get it right. Especially on a big old owl like me.

[jtl513]

I think the newer ships have new jackets that are easier to put on so there is less need to try them on.We had the one-buckle type on the Eurodam, but no other ships so far. Hopefully that will become the norm. When/if that happens, I would agree that actually putting them on for the muster wouldn't be needed.

[Harry1954]

we recently got off Noordam and did not wear them at the muster nor did they bother verifying everyone showed up.
harry

[emileg]

Eurodam 12/26/2009 - We were advised not to bring personal flotation devices to the muster drill.

[E-500]

Just got off the Westerdam on 2/14/10, this was a 14 day B2B. First week required to attend, no life jackets, no attendence taken. Second week not even required to attend, excused by the CD via an announcement.

[Luke Warmwater]

Good move this one. Blame the brainless. At the old drills, there were always at least 10 people who blew the whistle when told of its presence. They didn't have the brains to figure out that several others may have done the same thing in the last month and they are not disinfected in between. If they are sick, they will blame the food. They take the jackets off and cram for the stairs oblivious to the dragging straps upon which they, or others, will trip with obvious safety impliations. I have seen people wearing life jackets moan becasue there is no room in an elevator with only 8 people in it similarly dressed. Cruise lines have to deal with intelligance represented by the lowest common denominator. It's pretty low.

[HWY 101]

My o my what a big ship but the music was good and the girls were looking pretty good..

Holland is really looking old these days..
do they still have trays furnished in the lido?
http://www2.victoriassecret.com/collection/index.cfm?&rfnbr=1339&cgname=OSSWMCOVZZZ&cgnbr=OSSWMCOVZZZ&page=all&cm_mmc=Google-_-Swimwear%20Broad_Beachwear-_-Broad-_-beachwear:eek:

[jhannah]

... Oasis of the Seas has life jackets near the life boats, not in the cabins. Now that makes perfect sense, IMO.

[Infi]

Does HAL require you to go outside for muster drill? Used to Celebrity and Princess where the drill just consists of a meeting indoors, no trekking out onto the deck and standing in the hot sun...hoping HAL is the same.

[suse]

Good move this one. Blame the brainless. At the old drills, there were always at least 10 people who blew the whistle when told of its presence. They didn't have the brains to figure out that several others may have done the same thing in the last month and they are not disinfected in between. If they are sick, they will blame the food. They take the jackets off and cram for the stairs oblivious to the dragging straps upon which they, or others, will trip with obvious safety impliations. I have seen people wearing life jackets moan becasue there is no room in an elevator with only 8 people in it similarly dressed. Cruise lines have to deal with intelligance represented by the lowest common denominator. It's pretty low.
Blowing the whistle is annoying and gross. Why do people think it's funny? I guess they are trying hard to do the "party hearty" scene in a circus-like atmosphere.:confused: Just remember, don't encourage them.

[jtl513]

Does HAL require you to go outside for muster drill? Used to Celebrity and Princess where the drill just consists of a meeting indoors, no trekking out onto the deck and standing in the hot sun...hoping HAL is the same.Sorry, no. At least on all 10 of our HAL cruises, but it seems some ships are now changing things, so who knows in the future?

[Brown Eyed Gurl]

I truly hope HAL does away with the life jackets being worn during the drill!!
Especially in FL, it can be really hot in the sun with all those people crammed on deck and having to wear a bulky life vest has on more than one occassion made me feel faint.
Having a volumptuous chest also makes it quite dangerous trying to see over your vest while making it down the stairs.
I have almost tripped on deck on others' white straps that weren't tied properly.
Perhaps they should do a separate mandatory life vest demonstration only for those who have never cruised and have never put on a life vest properly?

[mudscraper]

Volumptuous.
Love that word.:)


Rich

[suse]

Volumptuous.
Love that word.:)


Rich
I knew someone would pick up on that.:)

[YXU AC*SE]

sumptuous + voluptuous = volumptuous

It does have an urbandictionary.com definition, some less charitable than others http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=volumptuous

Scott.

[Copper10-8]

Volumptuous.
Love that word.:)


Rich

Pot stirrer!;) Wonder if Pipedreams has any pics:cool:

[Nowisthetime1]

We have been on both Carnival and HALL in the past 7 months and each did not require you to take your life jackets to the drill. Also, we went to the dining room for the drills and did not go to the muster station.

It was easier, but in a true emergency I don't feel the few minutes before a cruise are wasted by taking a role and insuring everyone knows where to go and how to use their life jacket.

Heaven for bide we ever have a true emergency. The life jacket are kept in your cabins and you probably would not be in the cabin during the day.

One can only imagine the insanity of everyone trying to get to their cabin, retreiving their life jacket and going to the proper muster station.

I think I would just sit down and start praying. If I am still alive after the insanity I would get my jacket and see if I can escape.

But, I love to cruise and we have to go one day somehow, so I don't worry about it at all.

[RuthC]

Pot stirrer!;) Wonder if Pipedreams has any pics:cool:
Let's hope not. It's been a nice day so far. :rolleyes:

[Copper10-8]

Let's hope not. It's been a nice day so far. :rolleyes:

Did somebody switch your room service sign to prunes again this morning, Ruth?:rolleyes:

[rich_cathybrock]

One other thing - they sent away passengers who brought their lifejackets with them. The traffic directors in the hallways stopped a couple that were insisting on taking them and actually took the jackets from them citing safety reasons and said that they would be returned to their stateroom for them. The Cruise Director made about 4 announcements prior to the drill that passengers were not to bring their jackets and they were checking at the doors out to the Lower Promenade deck. Just a FYI for all those people that have stated that they are taking their lifejacket "no matter what HAL says"

As I began reading this thread, I could not help but think that something litigious (e.g. a passenger falling on the stairs or trippng on the straps) has caused them to rethink this policy. I have to agree with everyone who has weighed in on the side of safety here - to me, the bigger picture is how much trouble folks would have properly donning these in an emergency.

We were surprised on Princess when we were not asked to put them on as well. I guess time will tell whether this was in fact a wise move or not...

[jtl513]

We have been on both Carnival and HALL in the past 7 months and each did not require you to take your life jackets to the drill. Also, we went to the dining room for the drills and did not go to the muster station.You didn't even go out under the lifeboats for the HAL one? :eek::eek:

[roobrie]

In NYC we conduct fire drills in the high rise buildings. Some times we actually go down 2 flights of stairs. Other times we assemble and go over safety issues. It is to prepare folks for an emergency.

I think the dumbing down of HAL boat drills sets a dangerous precedent. Not keeping track of where people are says to folks you do not have to pay much attention to this life and death training. The perception is if we are less safe during the drills what is going on behaind the scenes.

Like I said, a very bad precedent.

Bob from NY