Abandoned by HAL

[pingsplace]

I was on the Dec.11-22/04 Massdam 11 night cruise to the Caribbean.We had a great time and everything went smoothly except for the late arrival part of the ship due to the 5th engine breaking down twice. We missed our flight but was re-booked for Dec. 23. We arrived at the arrived at the airport at 4 a.m. in the morning and was told the flight was cancelled due to the snowstorm.
The airline told that it looks like someone is working on a new flight for me and he printed out what I thought was my tickets. Arrived at the airport on Dec. 24 and was told that the tickets are not actually tickets but just an itinerary. The airline told me that Holland America failed to send them the e-ticket! I was told that all I had to do was call Holland America and Holland America would just simply e-ticket the airline. They said the procedure would only take a few seconds b/c I already had seats assigned. Unfortunately, I tried calling HAL and was on hold for the "next operator" for 4 + hours. I tried calling the other HAL tel. numbers and left messages. From Dec. 24 to today's date, Jan. 4, they have not returned my phone calls.

The airline told me there was no flight until Dec. 27 and the cost of tickets would be $1500 per person x 3 = $4500!!!! They told me my other choice was to drive from Virginia to Boston for cheaper tickets. I rented a car and drove 10 hours to Boston.On Dec. 26 I was successfull in booking airline tickets on Expedia for the 3 of us to go home for Dec. 31. I kept calling HAL in Boston, but no returned calls.

My 12 day cruise became a 21 day adventure!
I had a great time but I think I should have been reimbursed for some of my extra expenses due to the fact that my calls were not returned and the fact that I felt abandoned by HAL. I bought the cruise/plane tickets through HAL. I spent $3000 to buy winter clothes, car rental, lodging, food, plane tickets, etc....

What do you think I should do?
Has this happened to anyone one else?
Has anyone asked HAL for some reimbursement and what was the result?

Thanks to any advice.:mad::mad:

[doone]

I agree with you, you should most definately get reimbursed for all that trouble that you had to go through.

I am not aware of HAL having an office in Boston, they are located in Seattle, did I mis-understand your statement?????

I would certainly send a certified letter to HAL and tell them exactly what went on along with making some phone calls until I received a satisfactory answer.

I am sorry for what happened to you, I hope you get reimbursed.

[PaulaJK]

I am so sorry to learn of your delay-disaster. It is bad enough
when Mother Nature disrupts travel plans.....but it sounds
as though HAL contributed here. I suspect that the 'front
office' needs some retraining of personnel.

[jhannah]

Definitely certify a letter to HAL's Seattle HQ. What a mess! Not a good way to end a wonderful winter vacation.

[localady]

You might call HAL at 1-800-599-8256. That is their post cruise number. I would call them and stay on hold until you can speak to a real person. I am sorry for your experience.

[ncdeac]

I would definitely call the office and keep demanding to speak to higher ups in the chain of command until you find someone who can handle this. That type of treatment is inexcusable and would be enough to have me looking at other cruiselines!!

Keep us posted on how you come along.

[thulewx]

If all else fails, write to Conde Nast Traveller Ombudsman and complain - they seem to work miracles. And be sure to keep accurate records of EVERYTHING.

[peaches from georgia]

I may have missed it, but where was pingsplace flying home to? The Va-Boston 10 hour drive solution is unbelievable. I think I just would have driven home (or to Seattle to take it up in person!).

[Krazy Kruizers]

pingsplace

Where are you from? I can't believe that you had to drive from Norfolk to Boston to get a flight home. There are quite a few airports between the 2 cities.

Did you have travel insurance? If so, it might take care of some of your expenses.

Hope you kept receipts for everything.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Unfortuately it does sound like HAL dropped the ball here.:( But to add to all the problems almost everyone on the East Coast was also stranded in airports because of weather and airline computor problems. Then with being a Holiday weekend:eek: I would definitely keeping calling, and try to speak to the highest authority you can get to. Then I would also send a certified letter. Because HAL made your arrangements they are partically to blame. I am sure if it was only the delay of the ship any other time of the year HAL would of handled it with out a problem. At least there is a possible recourse from HAL if you had not booked thru them I am sure exactly the same thing would of happened due to everyone else having the same problem in the airports.

[RevNeal]

This just makes me sick ... HAL failed BIG TIME on this one, and they SHOULD be held accountable to THEIR obligation. When you purchase HAL air, it includes several guarantees. And, the least of one's problems should be the issue of administrative SNAFUs.

I, too, am curious as to where pingsplace's calls home. Given the LENGTH OF TIME which was involved, had I been stranded in VA and given the only option to drive to Boston and fly, I would have rented that car just driven HOME. And I live in Texas. Of course ... in pingsplace lives in Europe, that would be a little bit of a problem. :)

[dakrewser]

Is there some reason why you posted the exact same message twice (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=2687706&postcount=12), approx. 12 hours apart?


That just makes twice as much work for everyone trying to read the replies....

-dave

[pingsplace]

This just makes me sick ... HAL failed BIG TIME on this one, and they SHOULD be held accountable to THEIR obligation. When you purchase HAL air, it includes several guarantees. And, the least of one's problems should be the issue of administrative SNAFUs.

I, too, am curious as to where pingsplace's calls home. Given the LENGTH OF TIME which was involved, had I been stranded in VA and given the only option to drive to Boston and fly, I would have rented that car just driven HOME. And I live in Texas. Of course ... in pingsplace lives in Europe, that would be a little bit of a problem. :)
I live in Vancouver, BC, Canada. The flight from Virginia to Vancouver would take 13 hours b/c the plane would fly down to Texas plus another connecting flight somewhere (I don't remember) and back up to Vancouver. The airline suggested Boston b/c there are more flights there and is cheaper. The flight from Boston to Vancouver is 8 hours.

Thank you all for replying. I'm going work on this right away.

[pingsplace]

Is there some reason why you posted the exact same message twice (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=2687706&postcount=12), approx. 12 hours apart?


That just makes twice as much work for everyone trying to read the replies....

-dave
Sorry. I'm still relatively new to this. I thought I might get some new suggestions with this new thread.:rolleyes:

[josee]

I am not clear why they did not put you on those assigned seats even if you did not have tickets. Could they not just print them on site? I never obtain my tickets until I arrive at the airport and have them printed out for me either in the terminal displays/ machine or by the agents. If I do have tickets, they are usually wrong anyway and new one are always printed out on the same day of my travels. If these were already paid... what was the problem? It's puzzling.
Maybe it's only with AC here.
I thinks it's awful however that HAL could not respond to your enquiries when at the airport thus creating this disastrous return home.

Josée

[OCruisers]

I agree with you, you should most definately get reimbursed for all that trouble that you had to go through.

I am not aware of HAL having an office in Boston, they are located in Seattle, did I mis-understand your statement?????

I would certainly send a certified letter to HAL and tell them exactly what went on along with making some phone calls until I received a satisfactory answer.

I am sorry for what happened to you, I hope you get reimbursed.

pingsplace .... DITTO above!

Please let all of us know about the response from HAL!

[JDee]

When first posted, I wondered the same as Josee as to why a person would actually need a paper e-ticket?? As long as you can identify yourself, why would not the airline issue the boarding pass and allow you to board?? HAL may very well disclaim any liability saying that the airline should have allowed the pax to board.

Tickets get lost. Am sure people show up at the pier w/o cruise tickets left at home, but identify themselves and allowed to board. Of course, better have your passport or birth certificate.

Did the OP take up the issue with an airline supervisor??

A complicated case, to be sure. Good luck.....

[pingsplace]

When first posted, I wondered the same as Josee as to why a person would actually need a paper e-ticket?? As long as you can identify yourself, why would not the airline issue the boarding pass and allow you to board?? HAL may very well disclaim any liability saying that the airline should have allowed the pax to board.

Tickets get lost. Am sure people show up at the pier w/o cruise tickets left at home, but identify themselves and allowed to board. Of course, better have your passport or birth certificate.

Did the OP take up the issue with an airline supervisor??

A complicated case, to be sure. Good luck.....
I was at the airport and very distressed. I was at the United Airline counter and they told me to go see Continental Airline b/c I originally flew Continental. Continental Airline said go back to United b/c my name is on United. I went back to United and they said, "Yup there's a booking but no ticket. Go call HAL". I never thought to talk to the airline supervisor at the airport but that's a good idea to keep in mind. Thanks.

[CanadianMAG]

Has your call been returned yet?? ( I dont remember seeing an answer for that)

Sorry to hear about your problem, its a long way from home and the last thing you want to happen. Good thing, you are only a 2 hour drive to Seattle HALS head office:D

[pingsplace]

Has your call been returned yet?? ( I dont remember seeing an answer for that)

Sorry to hear about your problem, its a long way from home and the last thing you want to happen. Good thing, you are only a 2 hour drive to Seattle HALS head office:D
I haven't called them since I came back. I have just drafted a letter and will be enclosing all my plane tickets and send it off tomorrow morning.

I read from another thread of 4 weeks ago, a passenger wrote a complaint letter to HAL and is still waiting to hear from them. Unfortunately, I can't find that thread now.

Yes, if the issues can't be resolved, I could easily drive the 2 hours to see them. Heh, heh:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

Sorry. I'm still relatively new to this. I thought I might get some new suggestions with this new thread.:rolleyes:
As long as everyone sticks to this thread it should be OK, but would hate for you to miss any good suggestions...

:) -dave

[ekerr19]

You know - I have actually encountered something similar when I traveled on business to WPB. My flights had been booked though our corporate travel agent and I was using e-tickets. My scheduled departure on Continental was cancelled.

Being that it was really important for me to get home that day - (DH had a dinner we were attending and he was getting an award and really wanted me there), I decided to do what ever was necessary to get home, even buy another ticket. I was told I could get a flight out of Miami that afternoon.

Took a limo to Miami (which was arranged by Continental) and got to the Delta desk only to find I could not check in - I needed the paper ticket from Continental. I slepped all my stuff all the way around the terminal (anyone who has been to Miami knows how much fun their terminal can be) and waited over 1 1/2 hours in the Continental line. The Continental ticket agent told me I did not need the paper ticket - Delta was wrong. Back to Delta I go, luckily the Delta agent recognized me and waved me over so I did not have to wait in line. She told me Continental was wrong and I had to go back.

By this time I am more than a little peeved. I still have time to make the flight, but can't check my bags because I have no ticket! The Delta agent even wrote a note to the Continental agent telling them why they needed the paper ticket - and off I went again. At Continental I waited again, though not as long. The Continental agent was really snippy, said I had to arrange the change thru my TA or buy a new ticket. It was ridiculous. They finally issued me a paper ticket for the flight, but only after I spoke to a supervisor.

Back at Delta, they took Continental's paper ticket and issued me one of their e-tickets for the flight out of Miami and back to Denver I went. It was a really frustrating experience - and it happened when e-tix were still not quite a popular.

It would be even more frustrating for someone who may not be a frequent traveler or someone unused to airline delays.

IMO, it is always important to understand your flights, ticket coding, options etc. in order to know what recourse you have when delays, missed flights, or other problems occur. This is one reason we choose to book our own air.

I feel really bad for Ping - worst case scenario, Ping should have been able to get a hold of someone at HAL and have them straighten the mess out before spending additional money to get home.

[Globaliser]

I am not clear why they did not put you on those assigned seats even if you did not have tickets. Could they not just print them on site? I never obtain my tickets until I arrive at the airport and have them printed out for me either in the terminal displays/ machine or by the agents. If I do have tickets, they are usually wrong anyway and new one are always printed out on the same day of my travels. If these were already paid... what was the problem? It's puzzling.There's a difference between reservations, e-tickets, printed itinerary confirmations and boarding passes.

An airline may take a confirmed reservation for a flight, including allocating seats on the flight, without the travel agent (in this case the cruise line) having taken any money from the passenger or paid the airline any money. Once a reservation has been made, the travel agent or the airline can print a copy of the itinerary showing the confirmed flights and the seat allocations. So the fact that you have a piece of paper in your hand showing your flights and seats doesn't mean that the airline has had any money for the flights.

Traditionally, the point at which the flight was paid for was when a ticket was written. At that point, the travel agent is liable to pay the airline for the ticket, so the travel agent would obviously have taken money from the passenger by then (or have some credit arrangement with the passenger). When the passenger checked in for the flight, the ticket coupon would be exchanged for a boarding pass which would allow the passenger to board the aircraft.

There is a similar step that is taken with e-tickets. The travel agent still has to issue a ticket, even though that's electronic. At that point, an e-ticket record is created, which is the electronic version of the traditional paper ticket. It is at this point that the travel agent has to pay the airline for the flights. When the passenger checks in, the e-ticket coupon is electronically marked as used, and then a boarding pass is issued.

E-tickets don't get printed or re-printed at the airport - in fact they don't strictly get printed ever as they are electronic. Airports will normally only print boarding passes, or paper copies of e-ticket receipts (which are never valid as tickets themselves - the electronic record is the last word).

In the OP's case, it sounds like the cruise line didn't issue the e-ticket for the reservation it had already made. As the airline wasn't assured of getting any money from the cruise line unless and until an e-ticket is issued, you can understand why the airline wouldn't let the OP check in or board until payment had been made for the flight, even though a confirmed reservation had been made and the OP had a printed itinerary showing the reservation.

It really does sound like the cruise line stuffed up here, and then compounded it by being unavailable to sort out the problem when it was desperately needed. The relevant department could have issued an e-ticket in a matter of seconds if the OP could have reached them. Keep going at them!

[pingsplace]

Here's an update:
Vacations to Go emailed and told me that HAL never received any of my phone calls and wanted to a list of numbers that I called. I emailed VacToGo the telephone numbers that I had from the HAL travel docs.. These numbers are from my travel documents. How was I supposed to know that I should have packed the yellow/white pages with me on a cruise? I wouldn't have thought to carry VacToGo telephone numbers b/c it was only supposed to be a 11 night trip.

Another update:
I call Mastercard and they are going to write a letter to Holland America. If HAL does not respond, they will suspend payment to HAL pending an investigation. However, I must also write a letter to Continental and United airlines before they investigate.

[JDee]

I think that phrase is troublesome. If there is someone you should have called when in deep trouble, like your TA, or the correct phone contact at HAL, it may just be that HAL will be off the hook. To respond with "how was I supposed to know" won't cut it.....

I have a feeling that HAL's responsibility may have terminated at disembarkation. Reservations were made for the return flight. Mother nature caused that flight to cancelled, and things just got worse. HAL is most likely going to shift resposibility to the airlines. HAL brochures and web site are pretty specific disclaiming and resposibility due to airline disruptions and legally binding.

Wish you well on your persuit. Good luck......

[CanadianMAG]

I have a feeling that HAL's responsibility may have terminated at disembarkation. Reservations were made for the return flight. Mother nature caused that flight to cancelled, and things just got worse.
I thought she missed her flight because the ship had engine problems and was late into port?

[JDee]

[

I thought she missed her flight because the ship had engine problems and was late into port?Yes, it's true the ship was late getting back into port. However, as I understand it, since the air package was purchased, HAL made the new reservations to coincide with the late arrival. That seems to be how all the e-ticketing thing got all messed up. New reservations were made, but airlines said HAL did not provide the e-ticket and would not allow boarding.

It's a complex situation and I wouldn't bet on the outcome either way...

[Pete Jackson]

Pingsplace,

>Arrived at the airport on Dec. 24 and was told that the tickets are not actually tickets but just an itinerary. The airline told me that >Holland America failed to send them the e-ticket! I was told that all I had to do was call Holland America and Holland America would >just simply e-ticket the airline.

Would they have let you pay for the tickets yourself at this point? And, if so, how much would the fare have been? If it were possible and reasonable, that would have been the way to go, and then go after HAL (or the airline) for a check later.

Just made a mental note never to take a cruise ending just before Xmas!

[ekerr19]

I have a feeling that HAL's responsibility may have terminated at disembarkation. Reservations were made for the return flight. Mother nature caused that flight to cancelled, and things just got worse. HAL is most likely going to shift resposibility to the airlines. HAL brochures and web site are pretty specific disclaiming and resposibility due to airline disruptions and legally binding.

Wish you well on your persuit. Good luck......
Sorry JDee but I disagree - Ping purchased air thru HAL - they "guarantee" they will cover any delay, missed flight, etc.

This is on HAL - no matter who the TA is - the air "add-on" thru HAL guarantee's Ping's return.

No matter what the circumstance.

[JDee]

Sorry JDee but I disagree - Ping purchased air thru HAL - they "guarantee" they will cover any delay, missed flight, etc.

This is on HAL - no matter who the TA is - the air "add-on" thru HAL guarantee's Ping's return.

No matter what the circumstance.Sorry ekerr, but I would disagree. It now appears that Ping purchase both cruise and air through Vac-to-go as a pkg deal. As such, she is subject to the terms and conditions expressly provided by HAL. I didn't want to do it, but will now type some of those express conditions from HAL's Carib Brochure, pages 94 and 95. We can each make our own interpretations.

QUOTE: Holland America's Fly Cruise Plan

In these changing times, it's worth every dollar--and then some.

When your airfare is arranged through Holland America Line, you are automatically enrolled in our Fly Cruise Plan, a program which entitles you to a whole host of benefits.

Flight Delay Assistance - If your flight is delayed, we'll make sure someone is at the airport to meet you and help you with your luggage.

Flight Cancellation Assistance - If your flight is cancelled or a revised schedule no longer connects to the ship or tour, we will alter your ticket at no charge; if necessary, we'll even rebook on an alternate airline.

Transfer Service - We will include all transfers between airport and ship, ship and hotel, hotel and airport.

Custom Travel - Our Air Plus Service allows guests to select which airlines they prefer, upgrade flight class, and/or travel to and from their (dis)embarkation port on dates other than those usually booked. """"

I'll post the liability section from pg 95 on next posting due to current board problems. Lost some stuff & had to do over.

[ekerr19]

JDee- Any agent can purchase HAL's add-on air... we did so twice, once through Amex - bad results.

[JDee]

OK, here goes w/page 95:

Liability and Relation With Airlines

We reserve the right to use carriers, routing and fare structures of our choice, and to utilize commuter and/or charter air service without prior notice. As the airlines we use are based on capacity-controlled, promotional, and group fares, we may limit or close sales without prior notice at any time. If, due to any cause beyond our control , we are unable to arrange for air travel or the air travel we arrange is unavailable, or otherwise fails to materialize, our liability will be limited to refunding the air add-on amount paid by us. We assume no liability for any acts ora omissions of any airline, including, without limitation, those involving cancellation of flights, schedule changes, re-routings, damage to or delay or loss of baggage, flight delays, equipment failures, accidents, pilot or other staff shortages or computer errors. The liabilities and obligations of an airline to you, and your rights against an airline, are subject to any and all terms and conditions of the airline's ticket and tariffs."""

Whew, that's a lot of typing. And that's a lot of exclusions for HAl's liability.

Have to hit the hay, as have to get up early am, as heading for Atlanta & need the rest--driving of course....Will continue to monitor this thread. Sure hope that Ping can get some satisfaction, but still believe it looks more and more like a long shot.

As for the Master Card holding up payment, that is only a temp thing. Should HAL deny liability and demand payment, MC has no choice but to comply and advise Ping to pursue in Civil Court.

[ekerr19]

I guess this is just another reason for avoiding HAL's add-on air ... we did it twice, two times TOO many. :)

I also would guess this is my point - they (HAL) dropped the ball with Ping. He should have had coverage. He booked HAL's Air Add-on... you spelled it out above - thanks!

[ekerr19]

Sorry ekerr, but I would disagree. It now appears that Ping purchase both cruise and air through Vac-to-go as a pkg deal. As such, she is subject to the terms and conditions expressly provided by HAL. I didn't want to do it, but will now type some of those express conditions from HAL's Carib Brochure, pages 94 and 95. We can each make our own interpretations.

JDee - What interpretations need be made? HAL's air is the same no matter who the TA is... he purchased the "Fly-Cruise" plan... I'm sorry, but I'm not following at all - he IS covered - that's my interpretation. :)

Thanks for all the typing - I couldn't remember all the details of the "Fly Cruise Plan".

[Globaliser]

Yes, it's true the ship was late getting back into port. However, as I understand it, since the air package was purchased, HAL made the new reservations to coincide with the late arrival. That seems to be how all the e-ticketing thing got all messed up. New reservations were made, but airlines said HAL did not provide the e-ticket and would not allow boarding.

It's a complex situation and I wouldn't bet on the outcome either way...On those facts, I don't agree the situation is at all complex. If it was HAL's responsibility to arrange air travel and therefore to issue a new e-ticket on the replacement flight on which they'd made a reservation, and then HAL failed to issue the e-ticket, then the responsibility is HAL's.

All this stuff about who the OP should have called and so on relates to everyone else running around trying to salvage the mess that was caused by HAL failing to discharge its responsibilities. Granted, the fact that HAL couldn't be contacted may have meant that a 60-second problem fix couldn't be done and led to the subsequent bigger hassle, but it doesn't absolve HAL from its responsibility. If HAL didn't issue an e-ticket, a whole truckful of printed itineraries counts for nothing.

[Johanna7]

As the OP had a package and was in Canada, maybe it was a wholesaler who packaged the HAL cruise with their own air and not HAL's air. Some really large TAs here use Hal's cruises and HAL's air but others have a package with a wholesaler (middleman) who chooses the air they team it with. It is usually a bit cheaper than HAL's air.

We have used it a few times and indeed, it does save money but obviously does not have the same protection.

[pingsplace]

I bought HAL's cruise & air package through VactoGo. All my cruise/Tix have HAL's name on it; otherwise, HAL wouldn't have re-booked my Dec. 22 flight.

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver). I was quite worried about booking on-line but it was a chance I had to take.

[localady]

Ping-

The thing I don't understand is why you've not hopped on the phone to talk to a live person at HAL since you have been home. You have spent a great deal of time here discussing the problems but as I read it, you've not contacted them on the phone. Why not???:confused:

[peaches from georgia]

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver).
But you had the expense of the trip to Boston, car rental, hotel for 8 or 9 extra days, food, etc.. I believe you said somewhere that the extra days' expenses cost you $3000? A wash with buying the tkts in Norfolk, no? Plus your time which has a cost.

I do have the same question as localady. As you have posted you are very aware that responses from HAL to written inquiries are very slow to come, if at all, and you are going to get the runaround with a phone call. With what you went through and the out-of-pocket expense involved I would have jumped in my car the day after I got home and been in Seattle in HAL's office 2-3 hours later. I just don't understand the lack of urgency. Not a criticism, just a question. :confused:

[Cruiseoften]

I bought HAL's cruise & air package through VactoGo. All my cruise/Tix have HAL's name on it; otherwise, HAL wouldn't have re-booked my Dec. 22 flight.

If I bought my own tix back to Vancouver from Virginia, it would have cost $1500 per person. Per the airline's suggestion, I drove to Boston for cheaper plane tickets. The airline said it would cost $628 per person. Lucky me, I found flights for $200 per person on Expedia (Boston to Vancouver). I was quite worried about booking on-line but it was a chance I had to take.


Think we're getting closer to the real story. Vacations to Go would seem to figure largely in this. True, HAL may have some responsibility but the outfit you started out with would not, in my book, be off the hook. VtoG acted as your TA and as such was responsible for seeing that everything was in order. Being new to cruising and travel (it seems) you did not question anything because I guess you had no face to face contact.

I do hope things work out for you. By all means keep following up with HAL but don't spare Vacations to Go, THEY GOOFED BADLY.

Please keep us posted on this thread - please don't start another one ;)

[Globaliser]

I'm not sure what the travel agent could have done, though, if the air travel was HAL's package and HAL had rebooked the OP at the last minute because of the delayed arrival of the ship. On the story as I understand it, HAL was (as far as the airline was concerned) the "travel agent" with which the airline was dealing, so HAL would have been responsible for issuing any replacement ticket in addition to making the replacement reservation.

But looking again at the OP's chronology, the one thing that does puzzle me is why, when holding a confirmed reservation, he couldn't simply pay the airline directly for the travel which HAL had reserved but not ticketed. That would at least have got the OP out on the original date, and probably at the cruise line's contracted rate or something similar. This would have been a different solution from buying completely new tickets for the next day on which the airline had available space.

[Cruiseoften]

I'm not sure what the travel agent could have done, though, if the air travel was HAL's package and HAL had rebooked the OP at the last minute because of the delayed arrival of the ship. On the story as I understand it, HAL was (as far as the airline was concerned) the "travel agent" with which the airline was dealing, so HAL would have been responsible for issuing any replacement ticket in addition to making the replacement reservation.

But looking again at the OP's chronology, the one thing that does puzzle me is why, when holding a confirmed reservation, he couldn't simply pay the airline directly for the travel which HAL had reserved but not ticketed. That would at least have got the OP out on the original date, and probably at the cruise line's contracted rate or something similar. This would have been a different solution from buying completely new tickets for the next day on which the airline had available space.

Can't totally agree with you Globaliser - HAL may well book the air space but it's the TA who has to request seat assignments, special meals, etc. etc. for the travellers - HAL supplies the chosen airlines' 'locator' to the TA for just that purpose.

Hindsight is always 20/20 vision - I believe that if the traveller had contacted the TA, "Vacations to Go", something could have been worked out. Sad but true, don't ever leave home without contact number(s) for your TA

That all this happened over the festive season (compounded this year because of when Christmas Day fell) is most frustrating. Can only hope there is a happy ending.

I still feel strongly that Vacations to Go has responsibity for at least some of the inconvenience. I'd keep after that organization and HAL.

[Globaliser]

Can't totally agree with you Globaliser - HAL may well book the air space but it's the TA who has to request seat assignments, special meals, etc. etc. for the travellers - HAL supplies the chosen airlines' 'locator' to the TA for just that purpose.Ordinarily, that's right, although this is more a matter of practicality than anything else as the TA is the one with more direct lines of contact with the passenger. In fact, armed with the locator you as the passenger can actually also do all of that yourself directly with the airline, and I personally prefer to do it myself as it prevents misunderstandings and ensures that the airline knows exactly what you want.

But this doesn't work very well in a situation where at the last minute, while the ship is still at sea, HAL finds it has to rebook the passenger because the ship will return late.

Anyway, though, the core problem seems to be that the e-ticket was not issued, although everything else was done. If that was HAL's responsibility, it was nothing to do with the TA. The TA, it seems to me, would have been unlikely to have been able to do any more than try to phone HAL themselves to get HAL to do what HAL ought already to have done. And if HAL was just not answering the phone to anyone, the TA would have got as much of a blank wall as the OP did - and the failure to issue the e-ticket still wouldn't have been the TA's fault in any way.

[tooalto]

I'm having a little problem understanding what happened here. We were on the "Hurrican Frances" sailing of the Zuiderdam which was delayed by over three days getting into Ft. Lauderdale. HAL purchased air was rebooked by them but our air was booked by me. There was no point of trying to rebook while still at sea, regardless of what many passenger thought, because no one had any odea of where the equipment might be when we returned. This is the same situation. Because of sea delays and air travel problems, no one knew how many aircraft would be able to fly into Norfolk.
We already had our e-tickets, return portion, so we had a contract with the airline. They had to get us to our destination. They weren't responsible for when or how, but they had to get there. There shoudl have been no problem with HAl or the TA not "issuing the e-ticket" There was already a ticket issued and ticket numbers were listed in your record with the airline. When we finally arrived at the airport in Ft. Lauderdale, we , along with hundreds of other stranded travellers, waited in line at our respective airline ticket counters, presented our e-ticket itineraries and the ticket agent searched for a way to get us home. because of ticket procedures, she confirmed us a flight home 2 days later, then found a flight with only a few stand-by passengers listed and put us on that list. We went to the gate, waited and made the flight. No extra purchase was needed or should have been made.
I am speaking from both sides of the desk here, having been a travel agent and traveller. Unless this passenger requested a new ticket for a different routing than originally ticketed, the return portion of the old ticket should have sufficed. As I said, the pax had a contract with the airline to provide round trip travel. Regardless of when the pax was able to depart Norfolk, there should have been no additional charge except for hotel and food. These expenses should be covered by travel insurance as our would have been had we be forced to spend the extra two days in Florida. If the pax had been re-booked by HAL, the airline should have honored their own ticket.

[Linda&Vern]

[QUOTE=pingsplace]Here's an update:
Vacations to Go emailed and told me that HAL never received any of my phone calls and wanted to a list of numbers that I called. I emailed VacToGo the telephone numbers that I had from the HAL travel docs.. These numbers are from my travel documents. How was I supposed to know that I should have packed the yellow/white pages with me on a cruise? I wouldn't have thought to carry VacToGo telephone numbers b/c it was only supposed to be a 11 night trip.

Curious as to what telephone numbers you called. We were on the Dec. 22 sailing. Because of communication from HAL we knew we were going to have delayed embarkation because of the late arrival of your sailing. I called HAL from the road twice that afternoon and immediately spoke to a customer service rep who updated me (almost as if she had a script in front of her) on the expected return time of Maasdam and expected embarkation time for us. I called 1-800-426-0327, the number listed on page 4 of HAL's "KNOW BEFORE YOU GO" booklet which was included with my travel documents. (Hours quoted for a Wednesday are 5:00am to 7:00pm Pacific Time zone - which would have been 10:00pm EST.) There is also an emergency phone number listed for after hours and holidays. I'm sorry you couldn't get through to HAL quickly to help with your problem.

[Globaliser]

We already had our e-tickets, return portion, so we had a contract with the airline. They had to get us to our destination. They weren't responsible for when or how, but they had to get there. There shoudl have been no problem with HAl or the TA not "issuing the e-ticket" There was already a ticket issued and ticket numbers were listed in your record with the airline.
...
I am speaking from both sides of the desk here, having been a travel agent and traveller. Unless this passenger requested a new ticket for a different routing than originally ticketed, the return portion of the old ticket should have sufficed.I think that the OP was originally booked to fly CO, but HAL re-booked him on UA. Would there be an interline e-tix problem here? Without an interline e-tix agreement, I can see why UA might not have been able to accept (or even read) an unendorsed CO e-tix.

[tooalto]

As far as I can remember, if CO had the original ticket number, then all they had to do was endorse it over to UA. This could be done by a sticker - or it least it had been done that way. Most all airlines will cooperate this way. I know we flew from SFO on Delta ( NOT my favorite airline) and were delayed because of equipment problems in Dallas. All DL did was sticker our tickets to endorse it over to USAir. I feel sure, with the huge airline mess, this should have been done. I just don't think HAl should shoulder blame. If the pax had been contacted by HAl air desk and given flight numbers, times and seat assignments then their job should have been done. It was simply a matter of one airline endorsing a ticket to another. I'm sure, in the confusion of all that occurred that weekend, a ticket agent or agents just didn't have the correct info.

[Globaliser]

I know we flew from SFO on Delta ( NOT my favorite airline) and were delayed because of equipment problems in Dallas. All DL did was sticker our tickets to endorse it over to USAir. I feel sure, with the huge airline mess, this should have been done. I just don't think HAl should shoulder blame. If the pax had been contacted by HAl air desk and given flight numbers, times and seat assignments then their job should have been done. It was simply a matter of one airline endorsing a ticket to another.This OP's problem wasn't caused by the airline mess that day, just exacerbated by it. The problem was caused by the late arrival of the ship.

In your case, it was a DL problem that led to them endorsing your tix to US - which any airline is free to do if they are sorting out problems they have caused.

But for the OP, it seems to me that as far as CO was concerned either the pax had no-showed for the booked and ticketed flight (because the ship was late), or the CO res and tix had been canx by HAL when they rebooked the OP onto UA. If the CO res was canx, or if the CO tix were non-endorsable, why should CO endorse anything to UA when the problem was not of their making? And what do we know that suggests that, even if the original tix were endorsed by CO to UA, they would have been sufficient to pay for a last minute res made by HAL on UA - which could have been in a pretty high booking class?

And that's before you look at any interline e-tix issues, where a paper sticker isn't going to solve the electronic problem of transferring the electroniccoupon from one airline to another. You can only paper sticker paper tix.

From what we know so far, it sounds like HAL took the step of making the confirmed res on UA, but then failed to issue the tix. Why isn't that HAL's responsibility? Making a res for your client but not issuing tix is pretty much going to guarantee that your pax will not be boarded.

[DoctorFeelgood]

Terrible event...

... just another example of why you should get 3rd party insurance for your cruises.


I hope it works out well for the OP.

[halos]

When first posted, I wondered the same as Josee as to why a person would actually need a paper e-ticket?? As long as you can identify yourself, why would not the airline issue the boarding pass and allow you to board?? HAL may very well disclaim any liability saying that the airline should have allowed the pax to board.

Tickets get lost. Am sure people show up at the pier w/o cruise tickets left at home, but identify themselves and allowed to board. Of course, better have your passport or birth certificate.

Did the OP take up the issue with an airline supervisor??

A complicated case, to be sure. Good luck.....


Yeah...I thought the whole purpose of an E ticket, was avoiding the paper ticket?? I buy E tickets all the time, the reservation is always in the computer...I just show ID...something isn't Kosher here.

[pingsplace]

This OP's problem wasn't caused by the airline mess that day, just exacerbated by it. The problem was caused by the late arrival of the ship.

In your case, it was a DL problem that led to them endorsing your tix to US - which any airline is free to do if they are sorting out problems they have caused.

But for the OP, it seems to me that as far as CO was concerned either the pax had no-showed for the booked and ticketed flight (because the ship was late), or the CO res and tix had been canx by HAL when they rebooked the OP onto UA. If the CO res was canx, or if the CO tix were non-endorsable, why should CO endorse anything to UA when the problem was not of their making? And what do we know that suggests that, even if the original tix were endorsed by CO to UA, they would have been sufficient to pay for a last minute res made by HAL on UA - which could have been in a pretty high booking class?

And that's before you look at any interline e-tix issues, where a paper sticker isn't going to solve the electronic problem of transferring the electroniccoupon from one airline to another. You can only paper sticker paper tix.

From what we know so far, it sounds like HAL took the step of making the confirmed res on UA, but then failed to issue the tix. Why isn't that HAL's responsibility? Making a res for your client but not issuing tix is pretty much going to guarantee that your pax will not be boarded.

I believe Globalizier explained the situation very well what probably happened. On Dec. 23, at the airport I received the re-booking for the Dec. 24 and I asked UA was there anything else I needed to do after he printed off the documents. He said, "Just show up tomorrow. Everthing has been looked after."
In hindsight, I should have called HAL on Dec. 23 to confirm that indeed the Dec. 24th booking is a go. I should not have assumed anything.

I have called HAL, and they requested I send them a letter; which I have done.
Mastercard has requested that I send CO and UA a letter.

I wonder what their response will be? Anyone know from past experience?

[ekerr19]

I believe Globalizier explained the situation very well what probably happened. On Dec. 23, at the airport I received the re-booking for the Dec. 24 and I asked UA was there anything else I needed to do after he printed off the documents. He said, "Just show up tomorrow. Everthing has been looked after."
In hindsight, I should have called HAL on Dec. 23 to confirm that indeed the Dec. 24th booking is a go. I should not have assumed anything.

I have called HAL, and they requested I send them a letter; which I have done.
Mastercard has requested that I send CO and UA a letter.

I wonder what their response will be? Anyone know from past experience?

Ping - Send all the letters! Complain to Mastercard and HAL - both dropped the ball, regardless. You booked HAL's Air plan - that should have covered you.