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fridayeyes

April 3rd, 2010, 09:41 PM

fridayeyes

April 3rd, 2010, 09:57 PM

Edit window expired....

Specific questions:

1) No more paper docs at all? No more blue folder?

2) If no more blue folder, how do you get your Mariner pin, and have they changed, too?

3) I see people talking about dress code changes. Will someone give me an update, please?

Thanks!

Friday

SALMARK

April 3rd, 2010, 10:09 PM

Hi, all!

I am back on the water in just over a month after a longish drought. I've only cruised ONCE in the past 3 years. (The withdrawals are killing me!)

So, what's changed in the past year or two? What new and/or different things should I expect? To what extent, if any, has the economy affected the HAL experience? Have you seen changes in food quality, service, ship conditions, etc?

Many thanks!

Friday

Hi, We were last on HAL last July to Alaska and this is what I found that changed.

In the Lido they no longer give you trays at the buffet. I was told by a crew member that it was as a result of a study that said the line would move faster. But what I saw was people not using the hand disenfectant cause no one was at the head of the line giving out trays and gently reminding people to use it. Also apparently people just did not seem to understand a buffet line since I guess there was no real beginning and would just jump in and out of line when they saw something they wanted.

They also changed the daily program and instead of listing events by the time of day chronologically they listed them by category ie lectures. It was hard to see what was happening at what time and if there were conflicts. Hopefully they have changed that. I did not like the new format and neither did the staff I talked to.

The crew were still wonderful and the food still good. :)

Krazy Kruizers

April 4th, 2010, 08:28 AM

Now you get 1 or 2 or 3 or 4 star pins depending on the number of days you have sailed on HAL.

Ours was attached to the invitation to the Mariners Brunch.

When you embark upon an enchanting journey with Holland America Line, you’re more than just our honored guest. You also become a member of our exclusive Mariner Society, just one more way for us to show we’re delighted to have you aboard. Each day you cruise with us, you’ll earn Cruise Day credits that entitle you to special gifts and invitations to exclusive onboard events. Plus, you’ll earn additional Cruise Day credits just for doing all the things you look forward to while at sea. Like enjoying a gourmet dinner in any of our intimate specialty restaurants, indulging in a relaxing massage at the Greenhouse Spa & Salon or booking shore excursions. As you collect more Cruise Day credits, you’ll move up to higher Star levels and earn even greater rewards and discounts on future cruises. Because the only thing more exciting than seeing the world with Holland America Line is planning your next voyage with us.
http://www.hollandamerica.com/images/1starMariner.gifStar Mariner
Every guest that joins us for any Holland America Line cruise returns as a Star Mariner. It’s our way of saying Welcome Back, and you’ll start feeling the special treatment as soon as you come aboard. Star Mariners receive:

Welcome Back Embarkation Lunch in the dining room (from 12:00pm to 1:30pm) as well as a complimentary Mariner Champagne Brunch
A special collectible gift presented to you on board
A free subscription to the print or digital* version of Mariner magazine
Offers to special sailings hosted by a representative of the Mariner Society
Special offers on select sailings
A 50% cruise fare discount on the 3rd/4th guest staying in your stateroom on select sailings (http://media.hollandamerica.com/pdf/MarinerSociety_SelectSailingList.pdf)

http://www.hollandamerica.com/images/2starMariner.gif2-Star Mariner
Collect 30 Cruise Day credits and you’ll be elevated to a 2-Star Mariner, which entitles you to:

Welcome Back Embarkation Lunch in the dining room (from 12:00pm to 1:30pm) as well as a complimentary Mariner Champagne Brunch
A collectible gift presented to you on board
A complimentary photo of the ship
A 10% discount on Holland America Line logo clothing sold in onboard signature shops (may exclude already discounted merchandise)
A 15% discount on merchandise from www.shophollandamerica.com
A free subscription to the print or digital* version of Mariner magazine
Offers to special sailings hosted by a representative of the Mariner Society
An annual cruise planner
Special offers on select sailings
A 50% cruise fare discount on the 3rd/4th guest staying in your stateroom on select sailings (http://media.hollandamerica.com/pdf/MarinerSociety_SelectSailingList.pdf)
A special recognition lapel pin

http://www.hollandamerica.com/images/3starMariner.gif3-Star Mariner
When you collect 75 Cruise Day credits you become a 3-Star Mariner, which means you’ll receive:

Welcome Back Embarkation Lunch in the dining room (from 12:00pm to 1:30pm) as well as a complimentary Mariner Champagne Brunch
A collectible gift presented to you on board
A complimentary photo of the ship
A special recognition lapel pin
A 25% discount on specialty restaurant surcharges, wine packages†, beverages in the Explorations Café† and all mini-bar purchases†
A 10% discount on Holland America Line logo clothing sold in onboard shops (may exclude already discounted merchandise)
A 15% discount on merchandise from www.shophollandamerica.com
Discounts on select treatments from the Greenhouse Spa & Salon
A free subscription to the print or digital* version of Mariner magazine
An annual cruise planner
Advance information on new itineraries*
Offers to special sailings hosted by a representative of the Mariner Society
Special offers on select sailings
A 50% cruise fare discount on the 3rd/4th guest staying in your stateroom on select sailings (http://media.hollandamerica.com/pdf/MarinerSociety_SelectSailingList.pdf)
A waiver of air deviation fees†

http://www.hollandamerica.com/images/4starMariner.gif4-Star Mariner
Guests who collect 200 or more Cruise Day credits join our elite group of 4-Star Mariners. These premier travelers will receive all the following benefits:

Welcome Back Embarkation Lunch in the dining room (from 12:00pm to 1:30pm) as well as a complimentary Mariner Champagne Brunch
A collectible gift presented to you on board
A 50% discount on specialty restaurant surcharges, wine packages†, beverages in the Explorations Café† and all mini-bar purchases†
A complimentary winetasting session
Complimentary laundry and pressing services†
A 15% discount on Holland America Line logo clothing sold in onboard shops (may exclude already discounted merchandise)
A 15% discount on merchandise from www.shophollandamerica.com
Discounts on select spa treatments from the Greenhouse Spa & Salon
Priority disembarkation†
Priority tender†
Priority check-in†
Early notification of shore excursions available for prebooking*
A complimentary photo of the ship
A special recognition lapel pin
A complimentary one-year subscription to Travel + Leisure or Food & Wine magazine (one per household)
A free subscription to the print or digital* version of Mariner magazine
An annual cruise planner
Advance notice of new itineraries*
Offers to special sailings hosted by a representative of the Mariner Society
Special offers on select sailings
Waiver of air deviation fees†
Complimentary cruise fare on 3rd/4th guest in your stateroom on select sailings (http://media.hollandamerica.com/pdf/MarinerSociety_SelectSailingList.pdf)

Krazy Kruizers

April 4th, 2010, 08:33 AM

As mentioned -- no more trays in the Lido for any meal.

Also you now have 2 cabin stewards -- thus they have more cabins to take care of now.

We either stay in an SA or PS and our cabin steward would have 9 - 11 cabins.

On one of our cruises, the 2 of them had 31 cabins to take care.

Yes -- they have cut back on the staff.

Documents -- no more blue folder -- you run off the immigration form yourself from your own computer. You can also run off the luggage tags or get them at the pier.

Lots and lots of threads on the dress code. DH still wears his tuxedo on formal nights and I dress accordingly. On smart casual nights he wears slacks and a polo/golf shirt and I wear a skirt and blouse.

fridayeyes

April 4th, 2010, 11:36 AM

fridayeyes

April 4th, 2010, 11:39 AM

Here's the policy from the HAL website. I don't see anything different from a year or two ago. Am I missing something?
-------------
Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.
--------------

European_CruiseGirl

April 4th, 2010, 12:18 PM

My last cruise with HAL was three years ago (yes - I also have severe withdrawal symptoms...) and I have now investigated a lot as we are booking a HAL cruise again.

When we cruised HAL last there were still three dress code categories: casual, informal and formal. Now (as you mentioned) there is only: smart casual and formal. So for me this is one significant change.

We liked the informal nights and their ambiance very much. Collared shirts and jackets for the men and a nice "not so casual" dress (or festive slacks) for the ladies. We did see quite many people wearing jeans in the dining room on casual nights. I know thats not prohibited by HAL so it's ok for me but I really liked the informal nights when (nearly) everyone was dressed "a bit better". Now of course I don't know if the smart casual nights are now closer to informal than casual nights but we liked the three distinct categories. I assume most didn't because they changed the dress code into two categories instead of three. :rolleyes:

Krazy Kruizers

April 4th, 2010, 03:47 PM

Thank you, Sal and Krazy!

I've seen plenty of threads on the dress code, but none that succinctly state what the changes are. The closest I've come is that someone is using the word 'elegant' instead of 'formal'?

Yes -- poeple are confusing the words and not really reading what HAL has on its site. People are reporting what they know from another cruise line thus it is confusing.

HAL only has two types of dress codes: formal and smart casual -- just as you stated in your next post.

whogo

April 4th, 2010, 04:08 PM

Did no one mention that a large foot bath has replaced the aft pool on the Veendam and Rotterdam? Add a super sized TV screen and HAL's choice of music and you may want to avoid ships with these Retreat "enhancements".

HAL's pr spin is more positive about these "upgrades." http://www.hollandamerica.com/news/NewsRelease.action?newsReleaseId=631

DutchByAssociation

April 4th, 2010, 04:27 PM

Comments in red

As mentioned -- no more trays in the Lido for any meal.
Looks like you forgot to mention that there are additional staff assigned to the Lido to assist those guests that need a hand.

Also you now have 2 cabin stewards -- thus they have more cabins to take care of now.

We either stay in an SA or PS and our cabin steward would have 9 - 11 cabins.

On one of our cruises, the 2 of them had 31 cabins to take care.
On the majority of ships the room stewards used to have 13-15 rooms each. There are now 2 of them for about 32 rooms so barely more than they used to have, plus now you can make beds faster (always easier with 2 people) and better routines were able to develop.

Yes -- they have cut back on the staff.
Staff numbers onboard the ships have not changed in the slightest

Documents -- no more blue folder -- you run off the immigration form yourself from your own computer. You can also run off the luggage tags or get them at the pier.

Lots and lots of threads on the dress code. DH still wears his tuxedo on formal nights and I dress accordingly. On smart casual nights he wears slacks and a polo/golf shirt and I wear a skirt and blouse.

DutchByAssociation

April 4th, 2010, 04:30 PM

OP -
Your signature says you were on the Ryndam last year. You can expect to now find Mix where you found the Casino and Piano Bars before, the shops have been redesigned, all staterooms and bathrooms have been redone, the show lounge is now the SHowroom at Sea (new configuration, tables up from like classic nightclubs and new entertainment), Canaletto is now a part of the Lido Restaurant at dinner...

The February dry dock is priced to the tune of about $40 million and all the photos I have seen after the work have been INCREDIBLE!

Krazy Kruizers

April 4th, 2010, 04:43 PM

fridayeyes

April 4th, 2010, 05:06 PM

Krazy Kruizers

April 4th, 2010, 05:21 PM

Thank you for chiming in, DBA - much appreciated. :) So she's had a refurb since I've been on her, hmmm? I'll be interested to see how she looks.

Re: Embarkation lunch in the DR for Mariners....

How do they know who's a Mariner and who isn't? Or is this really for anyone/everyone who shows up?

No one checked to see who was a Mariner and who wasn't -- all they asked when we sailed was what size of table of we wanted.

No asked to see our ID cards to confirm that we were Mariners.

AlexandNessa

April 4th, 2010, 07:06 PM

Thank you for chiming in, DBA - much appreciated. :) So she's had a refurb since I've been on her, hmmm? I'll be interested to see how she looks.

Re: Embarkation lunch in the DR for Mariners....

How do they know who's a Mariner and who isn't? Or is this really for anyone/everyone who shows up?

Everyone's key card now indicates Mariner status (1 through 4 stars). Not that anyone checked our cards when we showed up in the dining room for the Mariner's embarkation lunch.

Have a great cruise!

DutchByAssociation

April 5th, 2010, 10:20 PM

SORRY DBA

But we have sailed since the trays were taken away. DH has Parkinson's and we did learn to cope without the trays -- BUT rarely on the ships that we were on was there anyone there to help either of us with our dishes!!

Note what I said about the PS and SA cabins -- I always ask how many cabins that they have to clean. On one of our cruises the cabin stewards were having a hard time getting to all the cabins as the majority of the people wanted their cabins done in the morning -- early -- and there were complaints about cabins not getting done until 2 and 3 in the afternoon.

OH yes -- there is way less staff than a few years ago.

Sorry it seems you did not get the assistance that was required (you make it sound like you asked and were denied??? :confused:) in the Lido.

I will not get into details, but re: staff counts, keep in mind you are speaking to someone that sees crew counts on a weekly basis. And as I stated earlier (please let me know if you're aware of a reason I would have to lie... there isn't one) the staff counts have not changed.

chrismch

April 5th, 2010, 11:17 PM

The cruise director's staff now has specific titles such as on our Veendam cruise last month...It was Disco Matt, Party Planner Jan, Life Stylist Tim. Of course they are still doing other things like bingo and the sports activities. On my HAL cruise last year I don't recall a life stylist. On this cruise he was the one who did Tai Chi, Yoga and assisted the party planner with detailing healthy eating choices.

The big screen on the back of the ship is also new and another way to watch movies other than in the small theater...The Mix is a flow of 3 bars that include some interactive computer touch screen tables with games and trivia facts. In regards to formal night there was an interesting note on the daily program. On formal nights it stated "ties not required."

In regards to the Lido, they seem to have instituted a new policy of plastic wrapping all the stations the first 2-3 days of the cruise. I asked if this was due to a Noro Virus problem at the start our our cruise and was told it was their standard policy to prevent an outbreak. This way if the virus does show up, less people hopefully will be sick due to cross contamination. I was on a b2b and they did this at the start of each cruise.

Here's the problem with that concept... there are not servers at all stations. So if you wanted bread and butter, you would have to wait until the server at the appetizers could help you. If you wanted a salad you had to wait until the server went through each of the salad toppings (10-20 choices) and got the dressing choice as well before they moved back to the next passenger. So you can imagine the delays. However, midway through the cruise there was an "increased GI count" (HAL's description for potential noro virus) and they did the plastic wrap and added servers. So Disco Matt became Salad Matt for the night.

With the trays are gone so seems to be the flow. As others have stated, people are cutting in line and not just when there is a large gap between people. It was most confusing in the entree section where they first show a display of the choices, then the meat, followed by side dishes. Some people would be waiting to give their order to someone where the display was while others would go past them to the meat choices or begin at the side dishes. And the servers didn't seem to know what to do. They would just fill orders to whoever just stepped in front of them. The worst flow was the dessert line. This was 1 line whether you wanted a cookie, pastry choice or ice cream. A few times there was a line of 20 people, so I decided to forego my favorite cookie - which was probably a good decision on my part.

In regards to the Mariner's "perks" we never got our complimentary ship's photo, unless they were referring to the postcards in the room. I had to ask a few times about getting the "gift" (HAL tiles) and finally got it the last day. However, I was never informed of spa discounts unlessyou count the ones that are mentioned in the daily program or port day specials. I did win a spa gift at one of their events. The gift was a 40% discount on spa treatments but it could only be used on the high end signature treatments. Also we have yet to see an annual cruise planner unless that is referring to the brochures they constantly mail trying to get me to book another cruise. To me, the only valuable perks come at 200 days. Prior to that, it is just window dressing and no real reason to be loyal.

DizzyDallasDi

April 5th, 2010, 11:26 PM

Sorry it seems you did not get the assistance that was required (you make it sound like you asked and were denied??? :confused:) in the Lido.

I will not get into details, but re: staff counts, keep in mind you are speaking to someone that sees crew counts on a weekly basis. And as I stated earlier (please let me know if you're aware of a reason I would have to lie... there isn't one) the staff counts have not changed.

Gosh it's nice to have someone on the inside to give another perspective...I was so hoping you'd reply. I can't tell you how many times I've read people state that staff levels on HAL's ships have declined and the passengers are "suffering" because there aren't enough people to tend to them like there used to be. I've always thought that there's more "stuff" behind their whining than staff levels...and it's nothing HAL can do anything about. ;)

fridayeyes

April 5th, 2010, 11:42 PM

Hi, Chris,

Thank you for the comments. Mariner perks have never been much of a draw for me. I cruise HAL for the overall experience. That being said, I do like the tiles, and I wonder if I'll miss the former 2-cat upgrade that is no longer listed as a Mariner perk? I like the option of embarkation lunch in the MDR, but I feel bad for the staff as I'd been under the impression that changeover days meant a few hours off for them?

Hi, DBA,

Nice to know staffing levels remain the same. From my 2009 Ryndam cruise, I remember a few times in the MDR where waitstaff seemed overworked (too many tables - and I used to wait tables so I know what that looks like). This was near the inception of the Open Seating dining concept, so I wondered if rather than an absolute reduction in staffing, there was simply a mismatch between those assigned to the open seating tables and those assigned to the fixed seating tables. It wasn't ruinous, but we noticed, you know? My cruise pal tends to become something of a celebrity when she cruises. As a retired diplomat, she speaks Indonesian, Thai and Tagalog (among others), so she converses with the staff in their native languages. They call her 'Ibu' (a female honorific that means 'mother'), and staff who aren't even assigned to our section seek us out to say hello. So if we notice a gap in service, something's wonky.

That being said, I'm with bepsf. When I shuffle off this mortal coil, I want my ashes tipped into one of the little drawers in the ornate secretary desk behind the plate glass on the way to Ryndam's MDR. That way I'll get to hear the dinner chimes, and maybe someone can slip a dram or two of margarita in there every now and again.

RevNeal

April 6th, 2010, 02:15 AM

I will not get into details, but re: staff counts, keep in mind you are speaking to someone that sees crew counts on a weekly basis. And as I stated earlier (please let me know if you're aware of a reason I would have to lie... there isn't one) the staff counts have not changed.

While the staff totals have not changed, how about their distributions throughout the ship? Specifically:

Have the numbers dedicated to food service (MDR and Lido) remained the same over the past 10 years, or have they declined in the MDR in favor of staffing the Pinnacle Grills (the staff for the Pinnacles have to come from SOMEPLACE, you know). If food service staff have been added to the Lido to cover for the lack of trays, etc., from where have they come? The MDR? The Pinnacle? Thin air? Do you get my point? I have no reason to doubt your word ... total staffing-levels are almost certainly unchanged, and it is true that each ship's staff accommodations are either full or nearly-so ... but how the fixed number of staff is being deployed throughout the ship will must have changed in some areas to favor others. It doesn't take a doctorate in staffing logistic to figure that out.

How about cabin-staff distributions? Are they the same, or have they been cut in recent months in order to add more dining staff (see above)? OR, have dinning staff levels been cut in order to add more cabin staff (again, see above)? With the extra Cabins that have been added to the Prinsendam, Veendam, Rotterdam, Zuiderdam, Oosterdam, and Westerdam, how much has ship's staff deployment been adjusted to enable them to handle the increase? For that matter, adding more cabins means adding more passengers to feed and, hence, wait on in the MDR, Lido, and Pinnacles. I understand that the implementation of Open Dining in the As You Wish system was designed to enable the passenger increases beyond each vessels' original specs, but doesn't this mean that even if the MDR staff levels remained the same, they will nevertheless be stretched thinner than before (with each pair of waiters serving more tables than before).

HWY 101

April 6th, 2010, 02:24 AM

Probably so, so the whining and praying must mean some are looking for a free tile/upgrade. imo..:)

whogo

April 6th, 2010, 09:24 AM

Excellent points, Greg. Dutch, I appreciate your admission that staffing levels have not increased with the increase in cabins and passengers.

I suspect that two people do not make a bed twice as fast as one person, it goes against an industrial engineering rule of thumb. If one person can do it alone, two people take more than half as long. One of the workers loses time waiting for the other to toss over part of the sheet or fetch something. It looks good on a double bed with room to move on each side, can't possibly pay doing twin beds pushed against the walls.

Copper10-8

April 6th, 2010, 09:33 AM

Isn't it interesting that those on the "outside" always think they know more about the facts than those on the "inside".:cool: Thanks for chiming in Dutch!

whogo

April 6th, 2010, 10:27 AM

Isn't it interesting that those on the "outside" always think they know more about the facts than those on the "inside".:cool: Thanks for chiming in Dutch!Isn't it interesting that those on these outside can takes the facts as given by those on the inside, do the math, remove the marketing spin, and see for themselves what is up.

Copper10-8

April 6th, 2010, 11:01 AM

Isn't it interesting that those on these outside can takes the facts as given by those on the inside, do the math, remove the marketing spin, and see for themselves what is up.

Another conspiracy theory! Brilliant:cool:

RevNeal

April 6th, 2010, 12:04 PM

Isn't it interesting that those on the "outside" always think they know more about the facts than those on the "inside".:cool: Thanks for chiming in Dutch!

I have absolutely no doubt that Dutch is absolutely correct and truthful when he says that the nominal staff-levels have been unchanged per-ship. Barring occasional adjustments in the fleet-wide deployment of crew (e.g. at end-of-contract and, of course, when the Line adds a new ship and has to take selected crew from across the fleet to staff the ship), HAL ships sail with a full complement of crew. The dynamics of how that works has been explained to me by Hotel Managers on more than one occasion. But the various things that the crew are being asked to do, now, differs from in the past and, hence, how they are distributed around the ship will result in some areas having different staff levels than in the past. For example, Dutch's own remarks regarding staff deployments to the Lido:

Looks like you forgot to mention that there are additional staff assigned to the Lido to assist those guests that need a hand.

Those "additional staff" have to be taken from someplace. It's not like HAL can produce new staff like Marvin the Martian could produce "Instant Martians" in the Bugs Bunny cartoons (by just adding water). Robbing from "Peter to pay Paul" means that "Peter" has to do with less. In a closed system, like a ship, that's just the way it is. While the Line might be able to get away with this at breakfast and lunch, how do they manage at dinner when the MDR needs to be at maximum staff levels. For that matter, how do they manage with the ship is in Code Red?? They spread the staff thinner and draft people from other departments (like the ship's singers and dancers and musicians) into food service in the Lido. At least, that's what I saw on the Rotterdam in 2009. But that's an extreme circumstance; normally, they don't do that kind of thing ... they just borrow from other food service areas ... which will result in a decline in the levels of staff in those areas.

Back when the Pinnacle Grills were added to the S class ships I asked a Hotel Manager: "If the ship is already sailing with a full complement of crew, where will you billet the staff for the Pinnacle?" This was back when that staff was going to be all European (with an occasional Indonesian). He said that they would adjust the Indonesian staff levels for MDR and Lido down slightly to free up enough bed/cabin space for those Europeans being brought on for the Pinnacle. If the total number of crew is unchanged, that is the ONLY way to do it. My response was that this would result in a short-handed MDR and he said that he didn't think it would be too bad: one table more for each team, at the worst. And, indeed, that is precisely what we saw. Yes, the overall ship-wide staff levels remained the same, but the number of Dining Room Stewards declined.

Aruba

April 6th, 2010, 12:40 PM

That being said, I'm with bepsf. When I shuffle off this mortal coil, I want my ashes tipped into one of the little drawers in the ornate secretary desk behind the plate glass on the way to Ryndam's MDR. That way I'll get to hear the dinner chimes, and maybe someone can slip a dram or two of margarita in there every now and again.
And give you an after-dinner mint every once in a while!

CtheW0rld

April 6th, 2010, 01:00 PM

...When I shuffle off this mortal coil, I want my ashes tipped into one of the little drawers in the ornate secretary desk behind the plate glass on the way to Ryndam's MDR...

this could be a great revenue enhancing idea - a masoleum at sea. cruise lovers could pay to have their final resting spot aboard a ship. additional revenue would be generated by people paying for a cruise to visit their dearly departed :D

sail7seas

April 6th, 2010, 01:47 PM

fridayeyes

April 6th, 2010, 02:06 PM

What happens to those remains when the ship has finished sailing and goes to scrap metal. :eek:

In the event, this becomes a reality, please put half my ashes beneath NOORDAM's Bell and the other half beneath Ocean Bar on MAASDAM. :)

There will be an army of angry ghosts chasing after the ship-breakers of Bangladesh with phantom Lido trays. ;)

As for the voyages themselves, I can already see it - just like the ghosts swooping through the dining hall in Harry Potter. :) Does anyone really think my ghost could be kept away from Pinnacle's Volcano Cake?

AFuncruiser

April 6th, 2010, 02:20 PM

HAL ships are not as well maitained as they were..

Dennis
Jacksonville, Fl

387 days at sea
33 cruises
11 cruise lines
T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

Booked
21 day TA HAL Prinsondam May 2010
12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

sail7seas

April 6th, 2010, 02:27 PM

HAL ships are not as well maitained as they were..

Dennis
Jacksonville, Fl

Apparently, USPH seems to think HAL ships are maintained just fine as they continue to get good scores at regular Inspections.

oysterdam

April 6th, 2010, 05:35 PM

Classic thread on the HAL boards - cheerleaders vs. heretics. Time to close this thread.

1aCruise4wks

April 6th, 2010, 07:59 PM

Opinions

April 6th, 2010, 10:47 PM

Apparently, USPH seems to think HAL ships are maintained just fine as they continue to get good scores at regular Inspections.

I believe the USPH is mostly concerned with sanitation, not maintenance...Do they check all areas of the ship such as cabins, lounges, decks, etc.?

whogo

April 7th, 2010, 08:00 AM

I believe the USPH is mostly concerned with sanitation, not maintenance...Do they check all areas of the ship such as cabins, lounges, decks, etc.?USPH? I thought cruise ships were inspected by the CDC. HAL does not come out well on their list of "Outbreak Updates for International Cruise Ships". http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm . HAL had 7 out of 15 sick ships in 2009, 6 out of the 15 sick ships in 2008, but only 1 out 9 so far in 2009! Go HAL!

Now I am a HAL cheerleader too. Look at the improvement! Oh, and those bad numbers for 2009 and 2008 were not HAL's fault, it was the passengers. It's just coincidence. Bad luck. Nothing to do with HAL. They get a lot of older passengers, and the disease carrying ones moved to Celebrity for 2010.

Opinions

April 7th, 2010, 12:44 PM

USPH? I thought cruise ships were inspected by the CDC.

Cruise ships are inspected by the United State Public Health Service...The Vessel Sanitation Program and the CDC are part of USPH.

RevNeal

April 7th, 2010, 12:58 PM

There will be an army of angry ghosts chasing after the ship-breakers of Bangladesh with phantom Lido trays. ;)

Dressed in formal wear!!!!!!! :D LOLOLOL!

RevNeal

April 7th, 2010, 12:59 PM

Classic thread on the HAL boards - cheerleaders vs. heretics. Time to close this thread.

Does that make me a "heretic?" Amazing ... and all this time I've been accused of (and have enjoyed) being a cheerleader! :D

RevNeal

April 7th, 2010, 01:05 PM

Friday,

Just got off the Veendam last month. We've been on 28 HAL cruises but last month was our first one in about 3 years. Things we noticed... The Daily Program now sucks (someone or two already mentioned this). It has activities listed under categories like Explorations, Culinary, Technology, and Fitness. But, I guess some activities they couldn't categorize so they would just put them somewhere else. With no single list in time of day sequence, you can't figure out what's going on. Service... The staff that are there are still the same dedicated staff that you have come to know and love. And, their service is personalized. But, HAL has cut staff and it shows. We had to get our own cushions for the steamer chairs on the side deck (never experienced that before). There was no bar service in the Casino - I even submitted written complaints to the Front Office about that and it didn't change. The public rooms aren't as clean anymore. Used to be that they were spotless, not any more. When the pool overflowed in the Lido, there were no deck stewards mopping up the water (until an officer slipped, then he somewhere there immediately). Once the officer was gone, that water continued to pool on the floor.

I am very disappointed in the changes I saw and, as a result, decided to do my Fall Cruise on Princess instead of the HAL cruise that we had been considering.

Dennis,

Would you please consider sending this -- or even an expanded version of it -- to HAL Seattle? They NEED to hear that this is the kind of thing being experienced and noticed aboard ship. I understand that the number of staff has gone unchanged, however if the perception is that the staff levels have been cut that perception becomes a new reality that needs to be addressed. There's a reason for the perception, and it's not just our imaginations. Likewise, the observation that the ship isn't "spotless" is one that runs contrary to HAL's "signature of excellence" history (i.e. "Holland America has the Spotless Fleet!"). We've heard this from several people who have experienced it aboard several ships, so now I'm beginning to believe that it's not just an isolated incidence. This kind of thing spells disaster for HAL ... if they do nothing to correct it.

Copper10-8

April 7th, 2010, 01:10 PM

fridayeyes

April 7th, 2010, 01:10 PM

Dressed in formal wear!!!!!!! :D LOLOLOL!

ROFL!!! indeed! :)

fridayeyes

April 7th, 2010, 01:14 PM

Many thanks, everyone!! I appreciate the feedback immensely. I can't wait to get onboard and see for myself. I sincerely doubt anything folks have mentioned in the negative realm will dampen my enthusiasm.

On the positive side, I'm looking forward to Ryndam's new refurbishments, and to giving Canaletto a try. I've already made our reservations for the Pinnacle, and will soon make reservations for tea at the Empress - another favorite of ours. :)

RevNeal

April 7th, 2010, 01:22 PM

USPH? I thought cruise ships were inspected by the CDC. HAL does not come out well on their list of "Outbreak Updates for International Cruise Ships". http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/gilist.htm . HAL had 7 out of 15 sick ships in 2009, 6 out of the 15 sick ships in 2008, but only 1 out 9 so far in 2009! Go HAL!

Now I am a HAL cheerleader too. Look at the improvement! Oh, and those bad numbers for 2009 and 2008 were not HAL's fault, it was the passengers. It's just coincidence. Bad luck. Nothing to do with HAL. They get a lot of older passengers, and the disease carrying ones moved to Celebrity for 2010.

Norovirus outbreaks are one thing, ship's sanitation is something else altogether ("apples and oranges"). The outbreak of Norovirus has to do with passengers and staff not washing their hands properly following a trip to the "Room of Requirement." The number of outbreaks on HAL ships is high, but that's due to factors other than the ship's general sanitation.

Look for the Sanitation Inspection scores of HAL ships HERE:

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionSearch.aspx

You'll note that HAL ships consistently score highly. Here ... I'll post the most recent published scores for each ship tested:

Amsterdam 1/6/2010 -- 99
Eurodam 11/14/2009 -- 100
Maasdam 11/6/2009 -- 97
Noordam 12/11/2009 -- 97
Oosterdam 11/21/2009 -- 97
Prinsendam 1/13/2010 -- 97
Rotterdam 1/4/2010 -- 92
Ryndam 1/17/2010 -- 91
Statendam 9/10/2009 -- 93
Veendam 8/26/2009 -- 93
Volendam 9/11/2009 -- 95
Westerdam 3/7/2010 -- 99
Zaandam 2/5/2010 -- 99
Zuiderdam 12/13/2009 -- 95

The average is a score of 96, with the lowest being 91 (the Ryndam!) and the highest being 100 (the Eurodam!). The oldest posted inspection is the Veendam's, dating back to August 26, 2009, the most recent is the Westerdam's March 7th inspection.

These inspections are PICKY, and VERY difficult to pass. I'd hate to see how my kitchen or bathrooms score based upon their standards! If you want some interesting reading, read the more detailed Action report. Take the Ryndam's! Wow!

Gamelan1971

April 7th, 2010, 01:30 PM

On my last cruise (Mumbai-Hong Kong leg of Grand World Voyage) I noticed:

-We only got one towel animal once the entire cruise

-My mother got her three star pin and tile at the mariners lunch- this was my second cruise; I am a one star mariner and I did not get invited to the lunch and I did not get a collector's tile, even though I was invited along with my mother to the lunch on the first cruise (2008) and was also given a tile at that lunch.

-One time we came back after dinner to a room with unmade beds (from the morning!)

We also were served rancid breadsticks in the Canaletto but the awesome Indonesian staff compensated with free wine.

I really like HAL and these are not dealbreakers for me, but I must admit, these are the sorts of things that grow on you. I was really bummed out about the towel animals- its a small thing but I can see, moreso now that I am home, that I missed not getting them.

AFuncruiser

April 7th, 2010, 03:00 PM

Apparently, USPH seems to think HAL ships are maintained just fine as they continue to get good scores at regular Inspections.

Got you....the USPH is concerned with sanitation, not maintenance.. twisting the facts a bit are we..
That is "SPIN" at it's finest..

Dennis
Jacksonville

387 days at sea
33 cruises
11 cruise lines
T/P, T/A, Hawaii, Central & South America, New Zealand & South Pacific

Booked
21 day TA HAL Prinsondam May 2010
12 day TA Norwegian Sun Oct 2010

RevNeal

April 7th, 2010, 05:25 PM

Got you....the USPH is concerned with sanitation, not maintenance.. twisting the facts a bit are we..
That is "SPIN" at it's finest..

Well, now ... things like the repeated reports of observed "filth" and "dirt" and "trash" and all would fall under sanitation. :)

serendipity1499

April 7th, 2010, 07:13 PM

It seems to me, that several posters don't actually understand how cruise ships are scored by the CDC under the Vessel Sanitation Program..Some have asked what areas were examined..

At this WEB site are the various scores of the HAL ships:
http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionResults.aspx (http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionResults.aspx)

The following 7 page document entitled: Shipshape: Sanitation Inspections on Cruise ships etc. explains how ships are scored:

http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/biblio/cramer08.pdf (http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/pub/biblio/cramer08.pdf)

Quote Sanitation Inspections:

VSP environmental health officers (EHOs) conduct twice-annual, unannounced sanitation inspections (called routine inspections) of cruise ships sailing from foreign to U.S. ports and carrying 13 or more passengers.

These inspections, scored on the basis of a possible 100 points, evaluate sanitation performance in six major categories:

1) disease reporting,
2) potable-water maintenance and distribution,
3) swimming pools and spas,
4) food safety and handling,
5) medical log maintenance and reporting,
6) and environmental health practices (e.g., housekeeping, disinfection,maintenance of child activity centers).

Significant violations identified during inspections result in a loss of points; minor violations are noted on the inspection report and may not result in point deductions. Inspections are conducted in U.S. ports
within one day or less by one to three inspectors, depending on the size and complexity of each vessel.

For vessels that do not meet the minimum passing score of 86 or higher, an unannounced re-inspection within 45 days of a failed inspection is conducted. Immediately following the conclusion of each inspection,
EHOs review the inspection findings and sanitation deficiencies with the ship’s master and the senior management personnel on board each vessel.

Cruise ships are asked to submit corrective-action statements to VSP in response to violations cited on inspection reports within 30 days of an inspection. Cruise lines may submit appeals of inspection scores
to VSP for review. Inspection scores and violations associated with each ship inspection are recorded and stored in the VSP database at CDC in Atlanta, Georgia, etc, etc.. Unquote

Note, As Rev Neal pointed out in 2009 all HAL ships scored very well.. The Eurodam, Westerdam & Amsterdam scored 100... Statendam had the lowest score of 89 in May 2009.. They took corrective action to increase their score to 93 in Sept. 2009...If you click on any one of the three columns you can access the complete reports: All scores, Report or the Corrective report column...

Scores can be accessed for all ships/cruise lines which port in the U.S. by going to this WEB site:

http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionSearch.aspx (http://wwwn.cdc.gov/InspectionQueryTool/InspectionSearch.aspx)

Hope this info. helps..

Cheers.....:)Betty

P.S. I numbered the 6 categories for better understanding..

sail7seas

April 7th, 2010, 09:10 PM

Got you....the USPH is concerned with sanitation, not maintenance.. twisting the facts a bit are we..
That is "SPIN" at it's finest..

Dennis
Jacksonville

Please see responses by RevNeal and Serendipity.

AFuncruiser

April 8th, 2010, 08:40 AM

Please see responses by RevNeal and Serendipity.

Brad,
Regarding maintenance, I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I read what has been reported on Cruise Critic. You can spin it how ever you want.
Dennis

RevNeal

April 8th, 2010, 09:47 AM

Brad,
Regarding maintenance, I know what I have seen with my own eyes. I read what has been reported on Cruise Critic. You can spin it how ever you want.
Dennis

Who is Brad?
What "spin"?

AFuncruiser

April 8th, 2010, 10:00 AM

Who is Brad?
What "spin"?

Dear Rev,
Brad is a HAL employee.
Spin (public relations), a heavily biased portrayal of an event or situation..

Dennis

RevNeal

April 8th, 2010, 10:06 AM

Dear Rev,
Brad is a HAL employee.
Spin (public relations), a heavily biased portrayal of an event or situation..

Thanks, Dennis. I guess I was just a bit confused as to whom you were addressing, given that you were quoting Sail, who was referencing myself and Serendipity, and then you addressed a "Brad."

I understand the colloquial/political definition of "spin." I didn't ask for a definition, I asked for substantiation. And, I'm just trying to figure out if it's Sail, Serendipity, or me -- or all three -- that you're accusing of engaging in it.

serendipity1499

April 8th, 2010, 05:21 PM

Thanks, Dennis. I guess I was just a bit confused as to whom you were addressing, given that you were quoting Sail, who was referencing myself and Serendipity, and then you addressed a "Brad."

I understand the colloquial/political definition of "spin." I didn't ask for a definition, I asked for substantiation. And, I'm just trying to figure out if it's Sail, Serendipity, or me -- or all three -- that you're accusing of engaging in it.

Thanks Rev (Greg)....I'm just as confused as you are...:confused:Have never seen anyone by the name of Brad on this board, unless one of the posters whom Dennis is replying to goes by the name of Brad..

We know SailSevenSeas is not a HAL employee & Her name is not "Brad".. You are not a HAL employee unless you are holding down a second job that your congregation knows nothing about.I'm certainly not a HAL employee, although I wish I were younger & could apply for a job at HAL.;)

Unfortunately, I lost a portion of my my retirement benefits (Free passes & discounts on Cruises), since my Airline went out of business several years ago...Therefore, if I was much younger would certainly love to work for a cruise line..:D..Heck, I might even consider moving from Sunny Florida to Seattle for it..:eek: LOL

Also there is no SPIN in my post as the entire section in RED is an actual Quote form the CDC document..

cheers...:) Betty (not Brad)

Aruba

April 8th, 2010, 05:26 PM

There will be an army of angry ghosts chasing after the ship-breakers of Bangladesh with phantom Lido trays. ;)

As for the voyages themselves, I can already see it - just like the ghosts swooping through the dining hall in Harry Potter. :) Does anyone really think my ghost could be kept away from Pinnacle's Volcano Cake?
I love that image. I can see ghosts slipping through the MDR or Pinnacle like Nearly Headless Nick or Moaning Myrtle.

AFuncruiser

April 9th, 2010, 08:51 AM

While the staff totals have not changed, how about their distributions throughout the ship? Specifically:

Have the numbers dedicated to food service (MDR and Lido) remained the same over the past 10 years, or have they declined in the MDR in favor of staffing the Pinnacle Grills (the staff for the Pinnacles have to come from SOMEPLACE, you know). If food service staff have been added to the Lido to cover for the lack of trays, etc., from where have they come? The MDR? The Pinnacle? Thin air? Do you get my point? I have no reason to doubt your word ... total staffing-levels are almost certainly unchanged, and it is true that each ship's staff accommodations are either full or nearly-so ... but how the fixed number of staff is being deployed throughout the ship will must have changed in some areas to favor others. It doesn't take a doctorate in staffing logistic to figure that out.

How about cabin-staff distributions? Are they the same, or have they been cut in recent months in order to add more dining staff (see above)? OR, have dinning staff levels been cut in order to add more cabin staff (again, see above)? With the extra Cabins that have been added to the Prinsendam, Veendam, Rotterdam, Zuiderdam, Oosterdam, and Westerdam, how much has ship's staff deployment been adjusted to enable them to handle the increase? For that matter, adding more cabins means adding more passengers to feed and, hence, wait on in the MDR, Lido, and Pinnacles. I understand that the implementation of Open Dining in the As You Wish system was designed to enable the passenger increases beyond each vessels' original specs, but doesn't this mean that even if the MDR staff levels remained the same, they will nevertheless be stretched thinner than before (with each pair of waiters serving more tables than before).

.....and the Norovirus outbreaks keep some staff down.

Dennis