M/S ZUIDERDAM: The Definitive Review...

[garykool81]

M/S ZUIDERDAM: THE DEFINITIVE REVIEW

Photos accompanying this review:
http://www.cruise-addicts.com/photogallery/main.php/view/Zuiderdam_001/

Note: Ratings assigned as follows for services listed at the end of the review:

POOR – Far below expectations and not acceptable.
BELOW AVERAGE – Did not meet expectations, slightly disappointing
AVERAGE – Meets expectations
GOOD – Exceeds expectations, impresses
EXCELLENT – Perfect in almost all regards and greatly exceeds expectations.

Stepping aboard Holland America’s new vista-class generation of ships propels cruisers into what will likely become the future of the line – a newer, sleeker and more contemporary lineage of vessels that has many longtime fans of the classic oceangoing company fuming.

Holland America’s 85,000 ton Zuiderdam that debuted in 2002 is no exception to that rule, boasting a generous amount of public spaces that have been coated in the bright, overstated and outlandish decorative style found up until this point only on the lower heel of most mass-market lines such as Carnival. The 951 foot long behemoth is the same class of vessel that Carnival has ordered for itself, Costa Cruises and other Zuiderdam sister-ships in the Holland America fleet. In 2003, Carnival had even pushed to introduce a Vista-class liner called Queen Victoria into the Cunard fleet before moving the purchase over to the Italian Costa Cruises.

What most average cruisers who are unfamiliar with the industry don’t know, however, is that the massive Carnival Corporation owns a formidable share, amounting to more than half, of the cruise industry in the North American market. Among those lines in its portfolio is the history-rich Holland America Line, which up until the recent Carnival buyout had a fleet of classic, traditionally decorated vessels that made ships from lines even like Celebrity look as though they belonged in an abstract, modern art gallery.

The Holland America of today, particularly those vessels that Carnival Corporation has played a major role in designing, is far different than the one most avid cruise fans came to love over the decades.


THE ATRIUM

One of the more curious attributes of Zuiderdam and her sisters in the Carnival conglomerate is the general location of The Atrium in these 950+ foot long vessels. Frequently, lines that develop towering foyers that act as a centerpiece and heart for their ships attempt to board passengers embarking on the ship directly into that public space. This is not the case aboard Zuiderdam, and presumably her sisters Westerdam and Oosterdam, where embarkation from the standard walkway landed vacationers in a random hallway that twisted and turned multiple times before ending up at The Atrium through sheer luck. Navigating the long hallways of a massive ship such as Zuiderdam for the first time can be confusing to even an experienced cruiser, which is why so many lines attempt to embark passengers directly into the main foyer, allowing customers easy access to main stairwells, guest relations and elevators from which they can easily find their stateroom without assistance.

Aboard Zuiderdam, crewmembers simply pointed in a direction down the hallway without the friendly escort one might expect to find in a premium level cruise line. Finally, after being herded like cattle down hallways filled with passengers towing their luggage, one lands his or herself in The Atrium.

From the very moment a seasoned cruiser sets foot into this first major public room, the effects of the Carnival buyout are seen. Gone is the classy, traditional faux wooden beams, ceilings or pieces of furniture. Rich, yet muted accents of carpet and draperies have been replaced by a gaudiness that even Las Vegas would not dare attempt to reproduce.

In the middle of the atrium, a small, squiggling pattern of marble flooring is etched out around a center bar in what looks like the result of a person attempting to draw a circle after spending an hour or so aboard a speeding merry-go-round.

Rather than use a traditional coloring for the fabrics of the stools and sofa-style chairs in the bar and atrium, Holland America’s interior architects and decorators have opted for a mix of bright aqua-teal (Yes, you read correctly.) and banana yellow. These shades of the chemical rainbow, when coupled with the bright brass, glowing red lamps, and deep blue carpet create perhaps the most outlandish public space many have ever seen on the open seas.

Furthermore, the space in The Atrium as with many other sections of Zuiderdam, is frankly too crowded. Reeking of Carnival design, numerous oversized, obnoxious lamps, chairs, sofas and other decorative items have been jammed into every open space, nook and cranny that could easily have been left alone.

Three stories in the air, hovering above the center The Atrium, is what could truly have been a magnificent piece when placed in the proper foyer. A crowned, crystal seahorse that rotates slowly simply sits, unnoticed in a room where every fabric and material literally screams for attention. The more classic seahorse piece, even though it is intended to act as a crown jewel of sorts for The Atrium, is left in the dark, literally. Not a single spotlight or lamp even shines in its general direction, for whatever reason, allowing it to be easily forgotten and drowned in a room filled with more rampant color than a carnival playhouse. Yes, that was a pun.

A staircase coated in gleaming brass and deep purplish-blue carpet climbs around the outside of the atrium, slowly leading to a second level that hosts the premium Pinnacle Grill dining experience and eventually to a third floor painted with a slightly more subtle yellow carpeting.

What perhaps is the most frustrating about this and so many other public rooms aboard Zuiderdam and her new sister ships, though, is how easily it all could have been avoided – or changed for that matter in the future at minimal cost. Simply by changing the colors of carpet and the fabric covering chairs and sofas, this room and dozens of others aboard the Vista-class ships could truly become premium, classy and more traditional luxury liners. Removing the teal-aqua, yellow and other outlandish shades to substitute them with deep reds, blues or even purples could create a marvelous atrium that would easily compete with the likes of Celebrity.

For the time being, however, they resemble nothing more than a completely disastrous attempt to appeal to the younger demographic by “spicing things up.”


THE VISTA LOUNGE

Thankfully, Zuiderdam does have a handful of public spaces that have been left alone by those who destroyed the rest of the ship with outlandish interior decorating styles. The Vista Lounge, which acts as the ship’s main theater for Broadway-style shows and popular independent performers brought onboard by Holland America, is one of the more grand rooms found aboard the cruiser.

The venue is one of the largest theaters found on any modern cruise ship, climbing some three decks high with a tightly knit stadium-style seating configuration that wraps around the front stage in a semicircle. Balcony seating follows the same layout, but has a majority of views that are obstructed due to handrails and other items blocking one’s view of a show. On the sides of Zuiderdam’s balcony section, closest to the stage and on each side of the venue, are large private, closed in balcony seating segments that look as though they might be reserved for a VIP. Rarely used by anyone aboard, these two sections undoubtedly offer the worst views in the entire theater because of obstructed views.

The Vista Lounge is covered in bright red, traditional theater-like, fabrics that have been coupled with state-of-the-art light, sound and special effects systems that would rival any decent land-based, live performance theater. Topping out the three-story venue is a massive red and white drapery that hovers above audience members, somewhat resembling a large parachute. On the side aisles that travel up the lower level of the theater, massive, decorative floor lamps have been placed with oversized shades that again offer a hint of Carnival involvement with the ship design.

Industry-standard drink tables can be found between every few seats on the lower level for those opting for bar service during the live performance, which might be a requirement for enjoyment once passengers get a taste of the Holland America employed signers and dancers.

Balcony seating, for whatever reason, does not offer bar service or the small drink tables so commonly found in almost every cruise ship theater venue. Those on the upper levels wishing to purchase a beverage from the bar must stand in the back of the balcony seating area at a sort of makeshift bar that has been created on both sides of the theater.


REVIEW CONTINUED IN PART 2 FOLLOWING THIS POST BELOW...

[garykool81]

M/S ZUIDERDAM: THE DEFINITIVE REVIEW (PART 2 CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

VISTA DINING ROOM

Another more favorable part of Zuiderdam is her main restaurant, The Vista Dining Room. Offering breakfast, lunch and the traditional five-course dinner settings, this too is one of the ship’s brighter points with a more appropriate hint of flare than that found in other gaudy public rooms aboard the new Holland America vessels.

The two-story dining venue is open to the floors above and below through a large semi-circle in the center of the Vista Dining Room. It’s ceiling covered in decorative golden ornaments against a black, starlit style backdrop, the large semicircle offers a winding staircase linking both floors of the restaurant. In the center of the open space, between the second and first floors, is a musician’s stage complete with piano and the usual string quartet on most evenings.

As with most grandiose restaurants in modern cruise ships, however, The Vista Dining Room does have its drawbacks. A marvel to the eyes, these public spaces can turn into a nuisance for the ears. The open, multiple-floor design of such venues often creates a cafeteria-style noise that unfortunately drowns out any live string or piano performance that would otherwise create a wonderful accent to dinner.

Tables in the Vista Dining Room are covered in the traditional white linens and covered in a more contemporary style of tableware than found in most cruise ships. Seats are heavy and wooden with a plush, dark red backing and cushion decorated with a sort of oriental art on the rear. The seating, although it does the job in the long run, is more of what one might expect to find in a high-end Asian restaurant on land.

Numerous windows along the sides and back of the dining room offer guests views of the ocean as they feast. The carpet throughout the restaurant is a darker red base with a pattern of deep purples and other shades on top, presumably the same tactic used by most in the hospitality industry to reduce visible wear and tear. The pattern chosen by Holland America, though not offensive, simply doesn’t do the Vista Dining Room justice. The carpet comes off as again being cheap and too loud for the space that it has been placed in.

As one fellow passenger observed, “It looks like someone spilled paint on the carpet.”

Those dining on the sides of the room away from windows will be treated to long, rectangular murals or marble carvings that are a welcome addition to the space.



THE PIANO BAR

Perhaps one of the greatest advents of Holland America that has carried throughout its fleet is The Piano Bar. Now a standard in all of its newer vessels, the combination of a late night bar with a piano vocalist becomes a late night favorite among Zuiderdam’s middle-aged, livelier guests who aren’t looking to receive temporary hearing damage inside of the ship’s disco.

Any passenger aboard Zuiderdam or her sisters who remembers the piano bar craze on land many years ago will absolutely fall in love with the sight of a classic piano sitting at the forefront of a public room with a bar literally wrapped around it, offering more outgoing cruisers to sit down, chat and sing along with their favorites of the likes of Nat King Cole, Bill Joel and Elton John, among a host of other standards.

The pianist/vocalist is exceptionally talented, entertaining, welcoming and delightful company whether a guest is alone or with a large group of friends.

The actual appearance of the room, however, leaves something to be desired. Though it is not nearly as aesthetically offensive as the same space found aboard her sisters, particularly the newer Westerdam, Zuiderdam’s Piano Bar is yet another example of a room that could be marvelous with some simple changes to fabric colors and designs.

It is particularly the awful carpet designs of Holland America that attack this room’s aura the most, pulling one’s mindset back into the mid-1980s at sight of the red, pink, purple and blue colors spilled together as if straight from a wayward can of paint. Classy red sofas and chairs coupled with more traditional art are nearly out of place and ruined simply by the use of such odd flooring.

Offering views to the sea through numerous windows placed along the back wall of this lounge, the ceiling is covered in semi-circular, large, red materials that are placed partially atop one another as if to mimic the ocean waves.


THE EXPLORER’S LOUNGE

One of the absolute highlights that spawns memories of the Holland America of yesteryear would be The Explorer’s Lounge, located just forward of the Vista Dining Room on the Lower Promenade Deck. This more classic public room is clad in the deep, warm colors that should be present in so many more of the rooms of any ship in the premium level of the industry. Warm woods, deep rose colored carpet, soft, cream colored fabrics on sofas and a host of other aesthetically pleasing items come together as a team to form a magnificent space to enjoy the string quartet late into the evening hours.

With an open layout to the hallway leading towards the ship’s main restaurant, The Explorer’s Lounge faces a beautiful, rectangular painting depicting a major European seaport in the centuries past.

The lounge beautifully illustrates what Holland America claims it is trying to do with this new breed of ships – attract a younger demographic with a more contemporary look onboard. The lounge offers a more contemporary, relaxed feel while still maintaining the luxurious ambiance that should be standard on a premium level line.



OTHER PUBLIC SPACES

Zuiderdam’s many other public rooms, lounges and bars follow the same sort of troublesome theme found throughout this massive cruise liner – inconsistency. If there was one impression left upon critical cruisers at the end of a voyage, it might very well be that M/S Zuiderdam is a ship without a personality.

While half of the ship’s public areas are gaudy, crowded and filled with the most awful color usage seen in most of the industry today, the other segment of rooms turned into personal favorites that were classy, sophisticated and seemingly left untouched by the same gang of decorative misfits that tainted the rest of Holland America’s Vista-class cruisers.

One of the positive features of Zuiderdam and her sisters is a true promenade that completely wraps around the ship. This was truly a rare find in today’s industry, where other premium lines such as Celebrity have almost done away with anything resembling a real teak, walk around deck where one might enjoy the ocean and escape the noisiness of the pool decks up above.

As with most of Holland America’s fleet, the bow of Zuiderdam is left free of clutter so that passengers might enjoy a rare walk out to the very front of the ship during sail away, when the otherwise dangerous winds are rather low.

Her pool deck is one of Zuiderdam’s least desirable features. Offering the option to cover the entire pool with a retractable roof works wonders for a smaller aft pool, but it is a device that should never be implemented over a central swimming and bathing area. On Zuiderdam, the result is disastrous in terms of its effect on overcrowding. Day after day, hour after hour, finding a chair on either the lower or upper levels of the pool and sundeck areas of this class of ship is virtually impossible.

Holland America offers guests the standard casino, though; the one found aboard Zuiderdam was remarkably smaller than expected for a ship of her passenger compliment.

Just behind the casino is Northern Lights, a 21 and older night club for those wishing to party the night away into the early morning hours. A relatively decent size dance floor coupled with a relaxed, modern-style lounge in the adjoining room create a space perfect for high-energy night owls who don’t object to sofas covered in the pattern of Old McDonald’s prize cow.

REVIEW CONTINUED IN PART 3 BELOW FOLLOWING THIS POST...

[garykool81]

M/S ZUIDERDAM: THE DEFINITIVE REVIEW (PART 3 CONTINUED FROM ABOVE)

DINING EXPERIENCE

Over and over after booking a cruise aboard Holland America, I was told by numerous fans of other lines that the experience would be awful, most notably, that the food would be nowhere the standards I had come to expect aboard a line such as Celebrity.

If you find yourself being told this by a fellow cruise fan, close your ears immediately and politely ask them to shut their mouth. Their lack of experience in the post-2001 cruise industry will be evident once you sail any of the premium lines they have been referring to prior to your cruise.

A highlight to an otherwise mediocre experience, the food aboard Holland America’s Zuiderdam was remarkable for a ship of her size. Quite literally identical in quality to that found aboard Celebrity and other high-end lines, albeit missing a bit of variety and exoticness from time to time, dining in the Vista Dining Room was a pleasurable experience.

While service aboard Celebrity was a bit more personable and less intrusive at times, the overall experience on Zuiderdam’s multilevel dining venue was a positive one. Special dietary requests due to allergies or other issues become a top priority for those waiting on you. In one case, a tablemate had a serious allergy to any nuts or seeds that could be life threatening. The restaurant manager promptly appeared evening after evening with the next night’s menu in hand to ensure that a meal could properly be prepared for that guest.

One of the more odd traits of Holland America was the items that the line was willing to place on the menu of Zuiderdam. Hamburgers and potpies might be a favorite at home, but some question whether they belong on the main dinner menu for a premium level cruise line. That noted; they were still quite yummy. Yes, guilty as charged.

Upon exiting the dining room each night, after dinner mints and other small goodies are offered to guests.

Like much of her larger cruise ship kin, Zuiderdam does offer what is billed as an “alternative, premium” dining experience for a fee. The Pinnacle Grill, formerly known as The Odyssey Restaurant, carries a cover charge of $20 per person that many consider money well spent.

Cuts of meat, in particular, inside the premium dining venue were noticeably more tender and delectable than those found within the Vista Dining Room. Portions are quite large as well, with many guests mistakenly ordering out of habit two or three appetizers (soup, salad and other) as they might inside of any other dining venue onboard an oceangoing vessel. It is soon found to be a large mistake that will keep their stomachs full for the hours to come, as the serving sizes within Pinnacle are at minimum twice as large as those in the Vista Dining Room.

Service in the premium restaurant was prompt, though, missing any sense of personality. In fact, staff in this venue almost seemed cold to an extent, however, their speed and professionalism was still quite high.

The dress of fellow passengers was a bit more relaxed than on other premium lines, with many guests on the ship’s formal night opting for smart casual rather than the tuxedo or standard dark suit and tie. Guests wearing tuxedos made up less than ten percent of the diners, raising the question of why Holland America and other lines don’t opt for an entirely “country club elegant” dress code aboard their ships as many other premium and luxury lines have done in recent years.

Overall, Holland America’s Zuiderdam offers an above average dining experience for guests in terms of service and food quality, earning the ship a dining rating of GOOD.


ENTERTAINMENT EXPERIENCE

As is all too often the case aboard massive new cruise ships with gorgeous theaters and state of the art light and sound systems, the actual quality of entertainment offered aboard Zuiderdam is rather dismal. The ship employed singers and dancers that headline the vessel’s “Broadway style shows” were without argument the worst we had seen on any cruise and even many high school productions. I wish that were a joke, but it is not.

As I kindly wrote on a comment card to Holland America’s quality assurance staff in regards to the entertainment production company on Zuiderdam, “Even in cooking, a good sauce can only go so far in covering up the poor taste of a bad product.”

That is the unfortunate case in the Vista Lounge, where Holland America is presumably using a massive, beautiful multimillion dollar entertainment venue in an effort to glaze over either poor standards or budget cuts in the talent field that seriously have affected the final product.

A most notable memory was when an art auctioneer we were conversing with suddenly arose from our table at Zuiderdam’s atrium around midnight and performed an entirely impromptu set of holiday songs for the next 45 minutes with a band that had been playing for some time. His vocal talent outshone any single member of the ship’s singers and dancers. The only problem was that he was selling art rather than being up on stage.

Independent entertainers brought on board were overall better than the entertainment offered by Holland America’s own crew, but were still below average in relation to other ships and companies in the premium level. A magician was the exception to the rule and presented a wonderful show.

The singing pianist based in the ship’s Piano Bar was also exemplary in his talent and charisma, as previously mentioned in the review. We found his performances to actually be a bit above average for the industry.

Overall, due to the ship’s apparently unmonitored production shows and below average outside entertainment, Zuiderdam’s entertainment experience is given a rating of BELOW AVERAGE.


STATEROOM CONDITION/SERVICE

Zuiderdam is still a brand new ship, which is something that clearly shows when you enter your stateroom. With even ocean view accommodations offering the bathtub with shower that are frequently found only in high-end suites, Holland America is clearly offering a top-notch product when it comes to the rooms they place their guests in on newer Vista-class vessels.

Bathrooms are a bit more spacious than on standard cruise ships and the overall cabin size is right in line with what passengers expect from relatively newer breeds of liners out of Celebrity, Princess and the like.

Stateroom condition is excellent, as it should be with Zuiderdam’s young age, with linens and carpet showing minimal if any wear.

Service offered by the attendant was again a bit less personal than on previous trips, but still friendly, adequate and excellent in terms of getting the job done.

Overall, Zuiderdam earns a rating of GOOD for stateroom condition and service.


OVERALL RATING

The effects of the Carnival merger are quite obvious, though, unfortunately not in a good way. Service overall was barely below what one might experience on Celebrity or other higher end lines and entertainment was quite frankly a complete disappointment and should be revised immediately.

Food aboard Zuiderdam was surprisingly good for a ship of her size, with meals constantly being delivered as ordered, hot and ready to eat. Food quality was better than anticipated.

Zuiderdam is ranked an overall ***+ (THREE and A HALF STARS) or AVERAGE/MEETS EXPECTATIONS

Previous Reviews:

Celebrity Mercury: ****+
Celebrity Galaxy: ****
Norwegian Sea: **
Norwegian Majesty: ****
Carnival Holiday: ***

[ekerr19]

M/S ZUIDERDAM: THE DEFINITIVE REVIEW

Our service and dining selections did not even come close to meeting the same that we have experienced on the "S" class ships. We found the food extremely lacking.

[dakrewser]

You seem to place great store in comparing the Zuiderdam to other HAL ships, yet I don't see any of the others in your list of reviews. Am I missing something?

I think just about everyone can agree that the Zui is the least "HAL-like" of all boats in the line, seems a pity you'd choose to review that one as your only Holland-America ship.

[HowardB]

Gary - Thanks for posting your well written, extensive review! I've never been on the Zuiderdam, or any other HAL ship, but to me the way you write about the decor is pretty much reflected in your pictures, though of course a first-hand viewing could make a different impression than what a picture does.


Later,

Howard

[gizmo]

Terrific Review ! I loved the way it was written and I enjoyed reading it.
Thanks for taking the time to write this.

Giz

[marco]

We frequent both HAL and "X". I would have to agree with most of your comments, but have to add one more. THE RCI takeover" of "X" is just as noticable as the Carnival takeover of HAL. However, the Carnival take over of HAL was several years ago while the RCI takeover of "X" is just a bit more than a year or so. So to us, the decline of what is, compared to what used to be, is much more noticable on "X" than on HAL. But at any rate, we are still happy on EITHER line.

[garykool81]

You seem to place great store in comparing the Zuiderdam to other HAL ships, yet I don't see any of the others in your list of reviews. Am I missing something?

I think just about everyone can agree that the Zui is the least "HAL-like" of all boats in the line, seems a pity you'd choose to review that one as your only Holland-America ship.

Correct -- from the very, very many photos I've seen of all the newer vista-class ships being introduced by Carnival ::cough cough:: I mean Holland America, the change towards more outlandish decor is *not* simply limited to Zuiderdam.

On the new Westerdam, The Piano Bar is decked out in purple and yellow chairs (see photos on HAL's own site), and other rooms have the same cheap, tacky feel we found aboard Zuiderdam.

Again, just a bit frustrating to people like myself who believe a simple color change here and there could really bring back the elegance of these ships.

Furthermore, it was more aggravating that the ship lacked any sort of common theme in design. One room aboard had absolutely nothing in common with the room just outside the door. Two seperate folks commented to us (which was funny because we were thinking the same thing) that the line must have hired a group of college students from an interior decoration class, and assigned all of them one room to design each, without allowing them to see the others.

It just doesn't work.

[TedC]

While "recent" in geological terms, the takeover of HAL by Carnival was in 1988 or 1989 - not all that recent in terms of the fast-moving pace of cruise ship and cruise line "progress" we have seen over the past several years.

Every HAL ship now sailing was built while HAL was under the ownership of Carnival, except for the Prinsendam - and that was acquired just a few years ago.

[shipcafe]

I find the review being very detailed and comprehensive. As far as it being "definitive", however, that can be debated. A definition of "definitive" includes "being a final settlement or decision, conclusive".

While the Zuideram is, perhaps, the most colorful of the three Vista Class ships, I have read many reviews by past passengers who praise the Zuiderdam. With the array of colors, the Zuiderdam is very well suited in the Caribbean year-round. The subsequent sisters Oosterdam and Westerdam are very much toned down as I have seen them both myself personally.

So yes, indeed, it is a high-quality and detailed review and the accompanying photos are wonderful. Insofar as it being an "end all" review, however, I know that others will respond with their contradictory praises for the Zuiderdam.

Steve

[garykool81]

While "recent" in geological terms, the takeover of HAL by Carnival was in 1988 or 1989 - not all that recent in terms of the fast-moving pace of cruise ship and cruise line "progress" we have seen over the past several years.

Every HAL ship now sailing was built while HAL was under the ownership of Carnival, except for the Prinsendam - and that was acquired just a few years ago.

Also correct -- but it was only in recent years following the buyout that Carnival/HAL management became too overly concerned about appealing to a younger demographic aboard the line. For us to say that HAL has not made massive changes to interior decoration in just recent years would be a grave error.

This is a common management/marketing error (IMHO) made by many higher end companies. During my time with Bose Corporation (see very expensive audio equipment), the company became overly concerned with appealing to a younger crowd since their average customer was 50+.

Instead of realizing that you already DO appeal to a younger crowd and that the only reason they do not purchase your product is because they cannot afford it, the company comes out with numerous failed business strategies to try and get the younger 20-somethings onboard.

During my time with Bose, I saw it over and over again with product launches (that failed miserably), and the company has still not understood that young folks LOVE their products -- they just cannot afford it...so stop trying to appeal to them with poor product.

Just my opinion, and we all have one.


I find the review being very detailed and comprehensive. As far as it being "definitive", however, that can be debated. A definition of "definitive" includes "being a final settlement or decision, conclusive".

You've discovered that hidden marketing side of me :-) My review is certainly not the end all to every review ever written. We all have opinions that GREATLY differ...this is just my very detailed, very long winded one :-)

Still, I do have to say that this is the *ugliest* room I have ever seen on any cruise ship:

http://www.hollandamerica.com/fivestarfleet/westerdampr/images/g_we_piano_bar.jpg


Finally -- let's all take a deep breath. I didn't give Zuiderdam a bad review, and that seems to be the assumption. :-)

Three stars plus is above average, meaning the ship meets and in some cases exceeds expectations.

I simply pointed out what I felt to be huge errors, but also pointed out big pluses, such as cabins, food, certain entertainers, etc., etc.

Would I personally sail Zuiderdam again? No. The layout/decoration just doesn't appeal to my tastes.

Would I sail on a more traditionally decorated HAL ship? More than likely, if for the right price.

[Ozymandius]

I enjoyed reading your reviews... liked your descriptive prose... mine always come out as shorthand... or is that shortcomputer..?

What kind of camera did you use for your pics?

[garykool81]

Ozy --

The photos were taken using a Canon Digital Rebel...fairly mid-priced digital SLR camera, but excellent and well worth it for us photo-freaks :-)

Thanks for the kudos re: the review...actually, I tend to be a bit longwinded. To be totally honest, I am not so sure I could sit through my own 10-page review LOL

Take care.

[PaulaS8071]

OMG-While reading your review I thought perhaps you were being a little, shall we say, picky? But you are right-that is one butt-ugly room!
P.

[bepsf]

"In 2003, Carnival had even pushed to introduce a Vista-class liner called Queen Victoria into the Cunard fleet before moving the purchase over to the Italian Costa Cruises. "


Gary--

A very well written review!

Just a couple of factual notes:


Vista-Class #4 that was to become Cunard's Queen Victoria actually was transferred over to P&O as the new Arcadia. I understand that she successfully completed sea trials in December and leaves on her inaugural cruise this April.


Also - Carnival has had a major hand in designing ALL current HAL vessels. The S-Class ships were already in the design process for Carnival's "Project Tiffany" before the HAL purchase. Prior to purchase, HAL were planning a pair of 65,000 ton vessels which were subsequently cancelled.

[garykool81]

Just a couple of factual notes:

Vista-Class #4 that was to become Cunard's Queen Victoria actually was transferred over to P&O as the new Arcadia. I understand that she successfully completed sea trials in December and leaves on her inaugural cruise this April.


Wow! Foolish typing error on my part for something I should've known. Talk about spacing out when you're writing LOL.

You're absolutely correct...Queen Victoria is in actuality becoming a member of the P&O fleet. In fact, I do not believe that at ANY time it was discussed that the ship would EVER become a member of Costa's fleet.

Major error on my part...sorry about that.

[crockea]

Just for giggles. The color scheme of gold and purple in the piano bar. Only hiddeous if you are not a Husky fan. And HAL is based in Seattle? To me it looked "homey". Kidding of course.

[SueSea]

THE RCI takeover" of "X" is just as noticable as the Carnival takeover of HAL. However, the Carnival take over of HAL was several years ago while the RCI takeover of "X" is just a bit more than a year or so. So to us, the decline of what is, compared to what used to be, is much more noticable on "X" than on HAL. But at any rate, we are still happy on EITHER line.

Actually, RCL's acquisition of Celebrity was more than a year or so ago. That took place in July of 1997.

General comment: While both Celebrity and HAL have changed after their acquisitions, the biggest changes have been seen post 9/11. The demand for cruising was down while new builds were being put into service and increasing supply. Profitability was down for a loooong time. If Celebrity or HAL had not been acquired, how likely is it that either would have survived the lenghty downturn without the deep pockets of their parent company? There may well be those who would rather see these lines defunct rather than changed, but I'd bet the vast majority are glad they are still around. Many seem to think that had Celebrity or HAL not been bought, their product would have remained exactly as is, if not improved. Absolutely impossible!

[garykool81]

SueSea --

Very good thoughts, and you've made a very valid point. From my knowledge, Celebrity in particular was in a heap of financial woes before RCI came along. I am not as familiar with the financial history of Holland America, but one would assume that the buyout was not hostile...they rarely are.

Still -- that Carnival has a massive market share totaling over 50 percent of the industry REALLY does bother me. (not because of who they are, but from a competition standpoint)

[jemingway]

I think the definitive criticism would be a better title.:rolleyes:

[garykool81]

If I posted an overwhelmingly positive review, would you be calling it "The Definitive Compliment" review?

Geesh.

Sorry, but I am mind-boggled by the attacks on a review that thoroughly covered NUMEROUS strengths *AND* NUMEROUS weaknesses. Did I miss something? Is there a rule that dissent is no longer permitted on the boards?


CruiseCr...what's the second part of the name of this site, again?

[jemingway]

Touchy, touchy. I didn't mean to criticize or offend. It was just a flippant comment that was meant to be humorous. Obviously, it missed the mark and I apologize for any misunderstanding.

[dakrewser]

Sorry, but I am mind-boggled by the attacks on a review that thoroughly covered NUMEROUS strengths *AND* NUMEROUS weaknesses. Did I miss something? Is there a rule that dissent is no longer permitted on the boards?

Please re-read at least what I posted. I do not disagree with anything you said about the Zuiderdam. My emphasis might have been different, but that's a subjective thing.

My objection, as I've stated numerous times, is that the tone of your posts is to trash the entire cruise line (while damning with faint praise) after one cruise on one ship. And I'd feel that way no matter which line - or which ship - was involved.

-dave

[tommy]

The color scheme on the Zuiderdam did not bother me as much as the lack of service and that seems to be fleet wide. TOM

[mjmagee]

Thanks Gary for a very well-rounded thorough review. Very interesting and you have a nice writing style. Glad to get all the details and each one of us can make our own decision about the color scheme when we see it for the first time (Feb 12!). Thanks again. Marilyn

[SANDY BEACH]

When we were on the Z in July, Joel Mason (Elton John impersonator) was the best show we have ever seen on any ship. You can find outstanding entertainment on any ship at a given time. We have traveled the Z twice and enjoyed both our trips; however, we do remember our Millennium cruise as a step above. We will travel Millennium again in Feb so can't wait to hopefully experience great service that exceeds my expectations.

[garykool81]

When we were on the Z in July, Joel Mason (Elton John impersonator) was the best show we have ever seen on any ship.

Doh! Wish we could've seen that....big Elton John fan :-)

Though, we did have a *very* good magician, but that was about it.

[Tvisitor]

Your photos were wonderful, but I thought the word-pictures you composed to go along with them were overall, overly harsh. In a way, your review reminded me of a "reality show" I paused on while flipping channels this past week. The show apparently involved "judges" berating pretty women who were vying for a contract to become a swimsuit model. It seemed that both the women and the "judges" were competing, but in different contests. The women were "competing" in something like a beauty pageant, but the "judges"seemed to be competing in a contest to see who could be more sarcastic. I changed channels.

Your photos did not evoke the same emotional response in me, that you apparently felt as you took them. Since I have seen other photos of the Zuiderdam, I can say you are an excellent photographer. It is not the fault of your photographic skills that you failed to adequately capture the offensiveness of the decor. You just responded to the decor with an intensity of feeling I think I would not.

I also noted that you gave the Galaxy 4 stars. That gives me an additional frame of reference. I was disappointed with the Galaxy when I sailed on her in 1998. I did not care for her decor. I had no appreciation for her bizarre art collection, and with the exception of the main dining room and the martini bar, I thought her decor was otherwise too bland. She also had smaller rooms than the S-Class ships that were her contemporaries, and a lesser quality lido than any HAL ship I have been on. Moreover, I happen to prefer the HAL style of service I received in 87, 94 and 97, to the service I received from the Europeans on Galaxy in 98. I mention this because cruise ship ratings are virtually totally subjective. There is no such thing as "a definitive review." Frommer and Berlitz rated the Galaxy higher than the 84 Noordam, the Maasdam, and the Statendam (the HAL ships I had been on), before I sailed on Galaxy. They still rate Galaxy higher than all HAL ships except Prisendam. I would rate Galaxy lower than all the HAL ships I have been on.

As an aside, when I sailed on Galaxy from San Juan in 98, she embarked passengers via a service deck, forward. I note that you gave demerits to the Zuiderdam based on the passageway used for embarkation.

As a second aside, you spend quite a number of words talking about atriums. They are important to many people, so I understand including comments about the atrium in your review. However, it is interesting to note that until the S-Class ships, none of the HAL ships had an "atrium" at all. The 84 Noordam didn’t have one, and I loved that ship. Even when HAL yielded to changes in cruise ship design that emptied the space that cruise lines now use for atriums (primarily, moving the main show-lounge forward toward the bow), HAL elected to go with smaller "atriums." They tend to be a design element of lesser importance than the mammoth atriums on some other cruise lines.

I guess I am just not an "atrium" kind of guy. I am not wowed by shopping malls either. The small atriums on HAL ships don’t bother me. If they bother you, perhaps you should consider this: if you are going to criticize the Carnival family of cruise lines for becoming more like each other, you should be less brutal in your criticism of the things they do differently

[scamper]

It's gotten to the point where I never see any of the shows or performances on a HAL cruise. Bless their hearts, I know the cast tries hard, but I have yet to see a good show on a HAL ship. I'll stay in the disco, thank you very much.

[garykool81]

It's gotten to the point where I never see any of the shows or performances on a HAL cruise. Bless their hearts, I know the cast tries hard, but I have yet to see a good show on a HAL ship. I'll stay in the disco, thank you very much.

Oh, it has *absolutely* nothing to do with how hard the entertainment staff tries. I know that they work their tails off, and I actually feel bad for them to be honest :-)

The only party at fault here is the cruise lines. I would trade the multimillion dollar, state-of-the-art theater any day for a higher paid, more talented production crew that performs in a dingy theater :-)

I would assume most others would agree.

[PaulaJK]

...Gary for your extensive and well written review.
You certainly have an eye for design, particularly
re:the public spaces. What did you think of the
staterooms?
You supported your opinions;what more could one ask?
Experiences and impressions vary due to external
factors as well as personal experiences & expectations.
Unfortunately, as I've recently experienced on this
board, some folks object to any negative impressions
and begin to attack. How sad for a board. Recognizing
this, I guess one shopuld try not to take it too personally.

On the other hand, I think that any cruise line would be
well advised to read the available BB and weight the comments.

[Roz]

Gary,

Thanks for your very thorough review and beautiful (though your subject matter was garish - LOL) photos.

I especially enjoyed hearing about your experience at Bose. I just posted about HAL's marketing strategy, and you gave a very good example of how going after a younger demographic doesn't guarantee success.

Roz

[garykool81]

What did you think of the staterooms?

Thanks for the kind comments and kudos regarding the review.

The staterooms I speak of briefly towards the last section of the review, and we found them to be the *best* of any ship we've been on thus far. A big, and very pleasant shocker, was that the bathrooms for even oceanview cabins have a bathtub/shower combo! Being able to take a bath (even if the tub is a tad small) after a long day when the kids were clogging the hottubs was a major plus!

The overall size was about average for the new builds in the industry, with our oceanview I am guessing (without fact checking) coming in around 175ish square feet. We found plenty of storage space in the closets and drawers offered.

Stateroom condition was superb, as should be expected for a ship of Zuiderdam's young age, and service was on cue with what one expects from a premium line.


I especially enjoyed hearing about your experience at Bose...you gave a very good example of how going after a younger demographic doesn't guarantee success.

And unfortunately, it is so very true. Bose is a stellar company that markets itself quite successfully to a worldwide audience. While every other speaker company continues to post declining profits and debts, Bose grows annually and brings in billions of dollars of revenue -- meaning that they are EATING the pie of the speaker industry, so to speak.

That said, they as so many other companies that are higher-end (high-end automakers, cruise lines, etc.) become overly concerned with appealing to that younger demographic. Meeting after meeting is held speaking about age groups, which lends itself towards an evolution of fear mongering where the ideas are brought forth that action must be taken immediately, otherwise "...our customers will slowly die off."

Time and time again, these companies fail to realize that most young people LOVE their products, but simply cannot afford them. Instead of understanding and accepting that, they feel that their products just don't appeal to the younger demographic enough to make them spend their money on it.

BIG MISTAKE.

Then, bring forth the numerous silly products, ideas and wastes of corporate research that spawn failure after failure as they go after the coveted 18-30 year old males we so often hear about in market studies.

Guess what? No matter how cool your product is, a 22 year old making $25,000 per year is not going to spend $3,000+ on a high-end surround sound system.

These companies just need to learn to deal with it.

[dakrewser]

Oh, it has *absolutely* nothing to do with how hard the entertainment staff tries. I know that they work their tails off, and I actually feel bad for them to be honest :-)

You'll get no argument from me on this one. With all the local reperatory theaters that have sprung up over the past 20 years plus the theme parks and trade shows, the amount of talent has ben spread very thin.

[SueSea]

Still -- that Carnival has a massive market share totaling over 50 percent of the industry REALLY does bother me. (not because of who they are, but from a competition standpoint)

I can understand your concern about competition. However, Carnival Corp. had to get approval of both US and European regulators before the acquisition could go through. In both cases, approval was granted because Carnival's market was determined to be the vacation market, not the cruise market. Cruising makes up a very small part of the overall vacation market. Having other types of vacations available would keep Carnival from fixing cruise prices. Whether one agrees with this or not, it's interesting to note that RCL is the line that is dabbling in price fixing. Their recent decree against travel agents advertising or offering any non-RCL sanctioned discounts. This applies to Celebrity as well. Carnival's response was to disallow advertising of non-Carnival sanctioned discounts, but stopped short of telling TAs they could not offer them. This applied only to Carnival and no other Carnival Corp. brands.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Gary, much enjoyed reading your review ... very thorough, informative and (I thought) fair. While I've never been on the "Z", I was on the "O" recently. Perhaps the food is very different, but it is amazing to me how all our taste buds can vary to such a large extent. I admit I'm considered an excellent cook so it's possible I'm a bit too fussy. But I also think I'm pretty open minded when it comes to dining out. I thought the food (at least on the "O") was below average and sometimes a complete and total disappointment (to put it nicely).

In the past I believed one of the high points of cruising was the cuisine. It just doesn't seem to be so anymore. In fairness, though, they're cooking for thousands instead of hundreds and I'm probably just expecting too much.

[garykool81]

Gary, much enjoyed reading your review ... very thorough, informative and (I thought) fair. While I've never been on the "Z", I was on the "O" recently. Perhaps the food is very different, but it is amazing to me how all our taste buds can vary to such a large extent. I admit I'm considered an excellent cook so it's possible I'm a bit too fussy. But I also think I'm pretty open minded when it comes to dining out. I thought the food (at least on the "O") was below average and sometimes a complete and total disappointment (to put it nicely).

Methinks it is more likely that cruise cuisine can vary GREATLY in quality from one cruise ship to another, even within the same company, and even from cruise to cruise aboard the same vessel depending on incoming product quality and such.

I too would say that I have exceptionally high standards (probably higher than most average cruisers) due to my passion for food and so frequently dining with my partner's family (his father is a pretty accomplished chef that worked for three presidential administrations at Blair House).

On our Galaxy cruise, food was actually below expectations. On our Mercury cruise, it was above expectations. Same line, same sister ships...night and day experience.

[Texed]

Gary,

A great review, well written and thoughtful. Do not let anyone tell you different.:)

[Lisa616]

Was there any chance talk of when the Z will undergo the enhancements? Such as the flat screen tv's and new mattresses? Just curious if it was mentioned onboard! Thanks!! Great review!

[garykool81]

Lisa --

Didn't hear anything of it while we were onboard, but that's not to say it will not happen. The mattresses felt the same to us as on other ships, so I don't think that change has been implemented on Zuiderdam yet?

[JeffCoud]

Gary -- You've saved me a lot of time! Many of your Z observations are very similar to mine....I thought it was among the most garish ships I have ever sailed on. I did think the food was surprisingly good (compared to my Rotterdam sailing of 6 years ago), and Kory Simon in the Piano Bar was ultra-talented....he literally salvaged what would have otherwise been a mediocre cruise! He needs to get off the cruise ship and set up shop in Manhattan....he's THAT good!

Your pictures are great. I thought the Windstar Cafe was a nice enough area...but almost always totally dead! Hated the main pool area. Who ever thought to put teal/seafoam together with gold leaf....blech!

Jeff

[dakrewser]

Gary,

A great review, well written and thoughtful. Do not let anyone tell you different.:)

That's your opinion, and you're entitled to it - misguided though it might be :rolleyes:

[garykool81]

...Kory Simon in the Piano Bar was ultra-talented....he literally salvaged what would have otherwise been a mediocre cruise! He needs to get off the cruise ship and set up shop in Manhattan....he's THAT good!

Jeff,

Absolutely. Kory is a wonderful guy...very talented, great performance, good personality, funny....really the perfect person for the job. He was a definite highlight of the voyage for us.