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LauraS
April 30th, 2010, 03:00 PM
Cruise Critic has just posted the following news:

Gulf Oil Spill Not Affecting Cruise Ships -- Yet

Read the entire news article... (http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3838)

mermaid72
April 30th, 2010, 05:24 PM
It may not be affecting the cruise ships, but think of what it is doing to our ecosystem, our marine & avian life, our beaches & eventually the Gulf's tourism!
What a terrible mess.

Sargent_Schultz
April 30th, 2010, 06:16 PM
The only data we have is that 11 people lost their lives.

spleenstomper
May 3rd, 2010, 04:51 PM
www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com

This is the BP website keeping infor up to date about the spill.

spleenstomper
May 3rd, 2010, 05:09 PM
Let me try to upload this map from NOAA

lurkster
June 1st, 2010, 12:26 AM
and spreads to FL. Gulf coast, then the Keys, then FL. East Costal cities, will the fall and winter tourist abandon the beaches and swamp the cruise lines to sail farther south? Or will the whole FL tourism business close up like the tourism business seems to have done in LA & MS?
There are so many experts on these boards, I'd like some opinions.
I realize that any opinion is rank speculation at this point, but it looks like this spill will be 2-3X the Valdez. And if the currents grab the plume, Bahamas, the Gulf Stream, The East Coast, Bermuda, the magitude could ruin many local economies.

Sargent_Schultz
June 1st, 2010, 01:10 AM
This is the "worst" spill in the US, but not even close to the worst in the Gulf of Mexico and certainly not the world.

deepnite10
June 5th, 2010, 11:58 AM
it s heatbreaking to see how this spill has impacted the lives of thousands of residents..im sure this will eventually reachout throughout the country
if things do turn for the better..

everything thus far has been a failure..can t trust BP to come forth with the truth..their CEO even tried to make a stupid joke of the matter..

BP dividends, limited liability..all it does is secure the future of BP..read what that they ve paid out $84 million in claims already..a drop of oil in the sea..:mad:

SailorNYC
June 5th, 2010, 05:13 PM
I agree with Deepnite10. Sargent Schultz, I do not know where you are getting your information, but when you think about the people, the livelihoods, the animals, and the fragile ecosystem that has (and continues to be) destroyed this is a devastating spill, the impacts of which are still not fully known. In those terms, I do believe it is the worst oil spill the world has known.

A way of life, a culture is being destroyed in the Gulf states. Fisherman are out of work. The Louisiana marshlands have been destroyed (a crime in itself). Oil-covered pelicans, seagulls and other sea birds are dying along the coasts. The bluefin tuna, which are already fished to near endangerment, spawn in the Gulf - their larvae is threatened by oil and dispersant. Oils is washing up on our beautiful sourthern and Florida beaches threatening people's homes and tourism. Scientists are predicting that the oil will reach the Gulf stream and 'round Florida in a little more than a month. At that point, it should travel up the mid-Atlantic states and out to Long Island and beyond. The toxic chemical dispersant (Corexit), which is banned in the UK, but for some reason approved by the EPA and NOAA is being used in volume and ways never attempted before. There is no way of knowing how this oil and the dispersant will impact the food supply.

[Some sources: http://www.capecodonline.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=%2F20100604%2FNEWS%2F6040318%2F-1%2Fnews ;
http://www.courant.com/news/education/hc-uconn-scientists-at-spill-0604-20100603,0,2817882.story ;
http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/breaking/Oil_dispersants_an_environmental__crapshoot_-94730904.html ] (http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/breaking/Oil_dispersants_an_environmental__crapshoot_-94730904.html)

There is much more information available other than that 11 lives were tragically lost. CNN is doing a decent job of reporting, but you may have to do a google search to really pull all the news to you. There are some accounts that BP is still suppressing the truth and the press. However, to say that all is known is that 11 people have died is to be purposely and blissfully uninformed -- by choice.

This is a heartbreaking tragedy of staggering proportions.

Further, I am convinced you will NOT get a clear understanding of the destruction, the tragedy and the horror by simply reviewing the BP site.

If you can help with either time or resources, CNN published a list of organizations that are working in Louisiana, Florida, Alabama and Mississippi who need volunteers, donations and more:
http://www.cnn.com/2010/US/04/30/impact.oil.spill/index.html

SailorNYC
June 5th, 2010, 05:16 PM
Lurkster - I read that the volume of oil spewing is like a Valdez every 4 days.

ddakrt
June 5th, 2010, 05:39 PM
Thank you for that post, SailorNYC.

Sargent_Schultz
June 5th, 2010, 05:45 PM
I agree with Deepnite10. Sargent Schultz, I do not know where you are getting your information, but when you think about the people, the livelihoods, the animals, and the fragile ecosystem that has (and continues to be) destroyed this is a devastating spill, the impacts of which are still not fully known. In those terms, I do believe it is the worst oil spill the world has known.


So far, this spill has had relatively little, measurable impact. It will take a few years before anyone has a clue what the real impact is. I prefer to wait for real data and not speculation before declaring a winner.

Two spills that were worse were the IXTOC 1 and the oil spill in the Persian Gulf after the first Gulf war. Nature has done a remarkable job of cleaning up in both cases.

What I question is whether or not America will ever decrease dependence on oil, whatever the source. There is an inherent risk associated with trying to satisfy that addiction, which will remain until the root cause is eliminated.

Personally, I don't plan on reducing the number of cruises I take.

mafig
June 5th, 2010, 06:01 PM
This goes way beyond the number of cruises you will take.:rolleyes:

SailorNYC
June 5th, 2010, 06:18 PM
Is this a contest? "Winner" = an absolutely disgusting, insensitive way to describe the catastrophe in the Gulf.

ddakrt
June 5th, 2010, 07:12 PM
So far, this spill has had relatively little, measurable impact. It will take a few years before anyone has a clue what the real impact is. I prefer to wait for real data and not speculation before declaring a winner.

Two spills that were worse were the IXTOC 1 and the oil spill in the Persian Gulf after the first Gulf war. Nature has done a remarkable job of cleaning up in both cases.

What I question is whether or not America will ever decrease dependence on oil, whatever the source. There is an inherent risk associated with trying to satisfy that addiction, which will remain until the root cause is eliminated.

Personally, I don't plan on reducing the number of cruises I take.

You first say you prefer to wait for real data and not speculate, then you go on to conclude that this spill isn't as bad as the IXTOC or the Persian Gulf spill? How do you know this since "real data" isn't available?

Nature has done a remarkable job of cleaning up in both cases.
So what? That's like saying the Holocaust wasn't that bad because the Jewish population recovered. :rolleyes:

ddakrt
June 5th, 2010, 07:35 PM
BTW, as of yesterday, they found 527 birds, 235 sea turtles, and 30 other mammals dead. Those were found on the coast, where these is barely any oil and things are just beginning.

Now imagine all the others in the ocean/off shore that are killed/will die because of this where most will never be found. Although you'll likely deny this will happen at all because "real data" don't exist yet.

Sargent_Schultz
June 5th, 2010, 07:52 PM
You first say you prefer to wait for real data and not speculate, then you go on to conclude that this spill isn't as bad as the IXTOC or the Persian Gulf spill? How do you know this since "real data" isn't available?


So what? That's like saying the Holocaust wasn't that bad because the Jewish population recovered. :rolleyes:

I haven't concluded anything, since real data isn't available. The oil is still spilling. The total damage is not known and won't be for years.

Something like 350,000 birds are known victims of Exxon Valdez, including bald eagles. Otters, Orcas, Seals, etc.

I expect the numbers to rise in the Gulf Oil spill, but nobody knows what the final count will be.

SailorNYC
June 5th, 2010, 08:49 PM
SS - Since you haven't concluded anything and you clearly don't think it is a big deal, why don't you do a favor for all of us who are heartbroken by the FACTS OF THIS CATASTROPHE and stop rallying around the oil company like a BP executive.

Sargent_Schultz
June 5th, 2010, 09:05 PM
SS - Since you haven't concluded anything and you clearly don't think it is a big deal, ..

Of course it is a big deal. How big of a deal is still awaiting data that won't be known for years.

RUDIMAY1
June 6th, 2010, 08:08 AM
Whether there is data available or not this is a real tragedy for all.

smoothdancer
June 6th, 2010, 09:23 AM
I do think I understood a small bit of what SS is/was saying.

This is not the first oil spill, and unfortunately is not going to be the last. Each oil spill is horrible in itself and it does not matter much if one is bigger than the other, the tragic results are still there....

But I think where SS may be going and I have heard this argurment before is that until we stop having such a reliance on this resource accidents are going to happen again and again. So SS says that he is not going to stop cruising and similiar to this comment tommorow each of us is going to get up, drive to work with the same fuel that has killed all off our wildlife. The bigger issue becomes are ability to stop using this product, look for other natural resources, ect.... Only then will we have an impact on minimizing accidents and ourselves be truly blameless in these accidents. Like it or not we right now are in bed with BP.

In a sense it is a lot about cruising and our ability to sacrafice things we want for the greater good of our shores. I am angry over the spill, angry over BP not moving fast enough, super angry over Obama again passing the buck on this one and also doing nothing. Still myself included, I dont know how many of us are really ready to stop using the very product that has caused this tragedy. We are all to blame on this one.

Food for thought.....

RUDIMAY1
June 6th, 2010, 09:40 AM
Pelicans struggle to free themselves from oil, thick as tar, that gathers in hip-deep pools, while others stretch out useless wings, feathers dripping with crude. Dead birds and dolphins wash ashore, coated in the sludge. Seashells are stained crimson.

"These waters are my backyard, my life," said boat captain Dave Marino, a firefighter and fishing guide from Myrtle Grove. "I don't want to say heartbreaking, because that's been said. It's a nightmare. It looks like it's going to be wave after wave of it and nobody can stop it."

Sargent_Schultz
June 6th, 2010, 09:41 AM
Close. Every time the President visits, more things seem to get done.

And yes, there is some data coming in on the immediate affects, but there will be both a short and long term impact.

As for the root cause, everybody wants somebody to blame, but nobody wants to change their ways.

from 1971

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/49/Pogo_-_Earth_Day_1971_poster.jpg

mafig
June 6th, 2010, 10:15 AM
That's where I have to disagree. Everytime he visits something gets done? Well, he should have visited a lot more in the last almost two months.

They're playing some of the remarks he made against Pres. Bush in 2005. The same can now be played against him, except Bush visited the area more than Obama.

I think the last poll found 60% of people saying O. has mishandled this crisis. And this crisis is just beginning.

EaglesRock
June 6th, 2010, 10:28 AM
Every time the President visits, more things seem to get done.

Yeah, like the dog and pony shows they put on with hundreds of beach cleanup workers that are bused in the morning of the visits and mysteriously disappear as soon as the President leaves. Anything tangible and useful that the President has the power to accomplish can easily be done from the White House. We don't need any more political photo ops and empty promises; we've had enough of those already! :rolleyes:

MSgirl cruiser
June 6th, 2010, 10:50 AM
and spreads to FL. Gulf coast, then the Keys, then FL. East Costal cities, will the fall and winter tourist abandon the beaches and swamp the cruise lines to sail farther south? Or will the whole FL tourism business close up like the tourism business seems to have done in LA & MS?
There are so many experts on these boards, I'd like some opinions.
I realize that any opinion is rank speculation at this point, but it looks like this spill will be 2-3X the Valdez. And if the currents grab the plume, Bahamas, the Gulf Stream, The East Coast, Bermuda, the magitude could ruin many local economies.

It is a dire situation in the Gulf Coast region!!!! ..... but......
MISSISSIPPI IS NOT CLOSED FOR TOURISM!!!!! Our beaches are not closed and are open.and more fishing waters have been open .. so far the oil has washed on shore of Petite Bois Island and Horn Island which helps shelters the Mississippi sound ....because of the NEWS MEDIA EVERYONE THINKS WE ARE CLOSED AND THAT IS NOT TRUE..... so please come and visit us... Yall come on down!!!!! Come and visit and spend your dollars...

mafig
June 6th, 2010, 10:54 AM
DH is getting the itch to hit the Biloxi casinos.:)

MSgirl cruiser
June 6th, 2010, 10:59 AM
DH is getting the itch to hit the Biloxi casinos.:)

COME ON DOWN!!!! WEATHER, CASINOS AND BEACHES ARE JUST FINE!!!!! We'll take your dollars!!!! LOL!!!!

mafig
June 6th, 2010, 11:15 AM
We'll take your dollars!!!! LOL!!!!


I know......you almost always do! :D

Sargent_Schultz
June 6th, 2010, 11:16 AM
From the Governor of Louisiana (a Republican):

"“I am glad the president came today. Every time he comes to Louisiana the pace of the response efforts quickens and things get done."

http://emergency.louisiana.gov/Releases/06042010-president.html

as for those trying to use the disaster a political football, shame on you.

mafig
June 6th, 2010, 11:19 AM
Didn't he do just that in 2005?

RUDIMAY1
June 6th, 2010, 11:21 AM
Cruise Critic has just posted the following news:

Gulf Oil Spill Not Affecting Cruise Ships -- Yet

Read the entire news article... (http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=3838)

Old article Laura.. Anything new you can tell us?

EaglesRock
June 6th, 2010, 12:26 PM
Didn't he do just that in 2005?
Yes, but Libs have short and convenient memories. It's only "political football" when it's the other side questioning their efforts. When they question and criticize the government in power it's called "standing up for the little man"! :rolleyes:

dforeigner
June 6th, 2010, 03:55 PM
There was pre-approved Standard Operating Proceedure (SOP) in place for a dissaster like this one. Burn off the oil floating on the surface before it reaches the coast. Yes, it releases CO but it is the least of the two evils.

Unfortunately, the current administration prevented BP from following this SOP. Now, the current administration is having a chang in heart and wants BP to start burning off the crude oil.

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/04/burning_should_have_started_a.html

In addition:

http://blog.al.com/live/2010/05/fire_boom_oil_spill_raines.html

golfinggirl
June 6th, 2010, 04:39 PM
Come down to the Gulf and scrub some oil soaked birds with me if you want to see the impact this is having on the ecosystem. It is totally heartbreaking for the wildlife not to mention a way of life for the residents. This area will be a dead zone by the time BP gets a grip on the flow. Their clean-up effort has been dismal to this point.

mafig
June 6th, 2010, 04:49 PM
Bless you for what you're doing.

I have a question....what percentage recover?

I read that the birds are relocated afterwards....in this case it was to Tampa Bay. Where are your birds going?

smoothdancer
June 6th, 2010, 04:49 PM
I saw a show and the group cleaning up the birds cautioned just anyone from trying to clean the birds, that it could result in death in itself... So I guess you might be trained in this area.... The special said at this date that no dolphins have died from the spill... Has that been your observations?

Sargent_Schultz
June 6th, 2010, 05:43 PM
Dolphins have died.

I imagine supplies from a 1994 plan would have been stockpiled years ago and could have been used if there were any, but alas there were none.

12vman
June 6th, 2010, 06:26 PM
fragile... devastating...worst... destroyed...a crime... threatened...beautiful...threatening... predicting...'round...a little more than... and beyond... decent...really pull...suppressing...purposely and blissfully...heartbreaking... tragedy...staggering...convinced...clear...destruc tion...tragedy...horror...help


All I know is, I always shy away from trying to effect people with words like this and just go with facts (btw all these words were from Sailor's ONE post). I find it amazing how our youth today make claims based on ONLY what they saw after they were born. "The worst EVER!!!!"

This earth has done far worse things to itself and recovered from it. It has for millions of years before us, and I'm sure It will continue to do so for millions of years after we are gone. It's sad this accident happened, but accidents DO happen. I was in Mexico back in 1990 and when I came out of the water, I had a coaster size oil ball in my pocket and some oil on the beach. It didnt scare me, and it didnt ruin my vacation. Its gone now.

The damn jelly fish where I live piss me off even more!


I heard once that about 90% of animals that walked the Earth are now extinct, and we are trying to save a few? for the sake of the planet? Or because it makes you feel good?

Anyway, I wish people cared as much for human babies than they do for a few pelicans.

We had an accident, I wish they would fix it faster, I HOPE it wasn't sabotage, it will get clean, stop crying and man up.

(I'm not saying I don't care about the birds and the turtles, etc, i DO! I'm just not sobbing over it like a little girl)

luddite
June 6th, 2010, 07:18 PM
All I know is, I always shy away from trying to effect people with words like this and just go with facts (btw all these words were from Sailor's ONE post). I find it amazing how our youth today make claims based on ONLY what they saw after they were born. "The worst EVER!!!!"

This earth has done far worse things to itself and recovered from it. It has for millions of years before us, and I'm sure It will continue to do so for millions of years after we are gone. It's sad this accident happened, but accidents DO happen. I was in Mexico back in 1990 and when I came out of the water, I had a coaster size oil ball in my pocket and some oil on the beach. It didnt scare me, and it didnt ruin my vacation. Its gone now.

The damn jelly fish where I live piss me off even more!


I heard once that about 90% of animals that walked the Earth are now extinct, and we are trying to save a few? for the sake of the planet? Or because it makes you feel good?

Anyway, I wish people cared as much for human babies than they do for a few pelicans.

We had an accident, I wish they would fix it faster, I HOPE it wasn't sabotage, it will get clean, stop crying and man up.

(I'm not saying I don't care about the birds and the turtles, etc, i DO! I'm just not sobbing over it like a little girl)

You really don't have a clue, do you?
The problem is where the leaking fuel is going-the wetlands of Louisiana. That is the breeding ground for a HUGE proportion of things that live in the Gulf. That breeding ground is now dead. There is at least 6 more weeks of oil spew to appear. That's if they fix it tonight.

Annnndd, what makes the human babies any more special?

SailorNYC
June 6th, 2010, 07:39 PM
Yeah, 12v, most people don't sob until things directly affect them. Hard to care when it's not directly hurting you, isn't it?

That's part of the problem in my opinion. You take my words out of context, yet I am one of the few people that backed up my words with sources... something I don't see a lot of on CC or elsewhere. You don't know me or how old I am or what my gender is... shame on you for your post.

Also, you say "man up" - is that because you think I am a man? Is it impossible for to believe that a woman could be a sailor? That a woman could handle a large craft in the middle of the ocean... far better than any man? Maybe I am a man. Maybe I am a woman. Maybe I am 25. Maybe I am 95. What difference does it make? Why don't you be a real human being and care about something other than yourself?

I firmly stand by my original post and you can deride me and it all you like... it does not change FACTS.

Sorry, the lame excuse that oil has spilled before does not make this any less a disaster and shame on you or anyone who thinks that way. It's the "uhhh, we killed tons of sea life before, no big deal if we kill tons again" sorry storyline. Boo.

I am just thankful that people are taking note... I hope it makes a difference this time and that people really change as a result of this horrifying disaster.

I think smoothdancer has made a lot of sense and wonder how many people will change their ways as a result of this spill. To a certain extent, we are locked into the choices we have. Those of us who live in cities or otherwise have a small footprint, don't own cars and make green choices only make so much of a dent. We need more alternative energy choices in our personal and corporate lives and for industry.

Thank you, luddite.

SailorNYC
June 6th, 2010, 08:14 PM
golfinggirl, good for you! i hope you are not correct about the Gulf turning into a dead zone, but it is the fear we all have. please let us know what you are seeing from time to time, if possible.

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 12:25 AM
BP and the Feds Withheld Videos Showing Massive Scope of Oil Spill
ABC News, June 3, 2010
(follow the link for full story, photos and video... an excerpt follows)

http://abcnews.go.com/Blotter/bp-feds-withheld-videos-showing-massive-scope-oil/story?id=10819367

"New videos show more clearly than ever how BP (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/BP-p.l.c.), with little resistance from the Coast Guard or other federal agencies, kept the public in the dark about just how bad things were beneath the surface of the Gulf of Mexico (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/Gulf-of-Mexico).

On May 1, 11 days after the Deepwater Horizon oil rig exploded, and nine days after oil began spilling into the Gulf, the Coast Guard had still only released a single image of oil leaking a mile beneath the surface -- a fuzzy photograph of a broken pipe spewing oil.

But inside the unified command center, where BP and federal agencies were orchestrating the spill response, video monitors had already displayed hours of footage they did not make public. The images showed a far more dire situation unfolding underwater. The footage filmed by submarines showed three separate leaks, including one that was unleashing a torrent of oil into the Gulf.

BP officials said they made all the video available to federal officials.

"The video has been available to the unified command from the very beginning," said Mark Proegler, a BP spokesman. "It's always been here from the beginning. They had it."

Coast Guard officials told ABC News that BP refused to allow them to release the more startling images, arguing they were proprietary. But at the time, the agency was doing little to convey to the world what the images were showing. Coast Guard Admiral Mary Landry was sticking with estimates, calculated by the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration (http://topics.abcnews.go.com/topic/National-Oceanic-and-Atmospheric-Administration), which put the spill's size at about 5,000 barrels a day for several weeks. Coast Guard officials said they were focused on the response, and advised the public not to worry about just how much oil was pouring into the water..."

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 12:35 AM
Also, to whomever asked, yes, dolphins have been killed, but cause of death is pending.

Animal Casualties
Birds: 820 have been collected, with 298 of these visibly oiled. 597 birds were dead; 223 were captured alive. 28 have been released.
Sea Turtles: 289 have been collected; 243 were dead; 46 were alive.
Mammals, Including Dolphins: 33 have been collected in the spill zone; 31 of those were dead. Determination whether oil was the cause of death is pending for 30 dolphins.

From: "Day 47: The Latest on the Oil Spill," The New York Times, June 6, 2010, http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/07/us/07latest.html

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 01:01 AM
The NY Times is tracking the oil spill and provides spill estimates based on 4 different averages (with an automated map that documents the spill's growth from 4/22 to the present). It also includes a summary of the efforts to stop the leak, shows where oil has landed, explains the effects of oil spill on Gulf animal life, and compares the volume leaked to the Exxon Valdez spill. Additionally, it provides a useful explanation of the 4 averages.

Tracking the Oil Spill in the Gulf
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2010/05/01/us/20100501-oil-spill-tracker.html

The site also attempts to explain the effects of the toxic dispersant (corexit), which was not used (certainly not in the same volume or manner) in the other large scale oil leaks people have mentioned.

RVman
June 7th, 2010, 01:02 AM
I was listening to a marine biologist on the news tonight and he said for every one dead animal found washed up on shore you can bet there has been ten more that has perished and been swallowed up by the sea.

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 01:38 AM
Coastal Louisiana contains 40% of the wetlands in the continental US. More about the Coastal Louisiana and the importance of the marshlands here: http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Wild-Places/Coastal-Louisiana.aspx

One of the many reasons the wetlands are important:

"In the aftermath of Hurricane Katrina, one of the lessons learned is that a healthy system of wetlands between New Orleans and the Gulf almost certainly would have slowed down the storm and dampened the storm surge. Without natural storm buffers, breaches in levees such as those after Hurricane Katrina could become an even bigger threat. Wetlands serve as nature's first line of defense--by absorbing much of damage caused by hurricanes."

Also interesting......


North American Wetlands Preservation Act

SUMMARY
The purposes of this law (16 U.S.C. 44401-4414 (http://www4.law.cornell.edu/uscode/16/ch64.html)) include to protect a diversity of wetland ecosystems and other habitats for migratory birds and other fish and wildlife in North America. The law and international treaties establish a North American Conservation Council which shall recommend yearly wetlands conservation projects for the countries of North America to the Migratory Bird Conservation Commission. The law’s provisions address the source and allocation of funds to carry out the law, biennial reports to Congress, and the preparation of evaluation and assessment reports detailing the effectiveness of wetlands projects completed under the law.

http://www.law.cornell.edu/uscode/html/uscode16/usc_sup_01_16_10_64.html

smoothdancer
June 7th, 2010, 10:48 AM
As I began to read I realized that much of my knowledge was from emotion and just bits and pieces of newcasts I catch on TV. It became clear to me how little I really knew and with the level of this disaster that I should be more informed so I can reach logical conclusions.

Trust me I dont minimize the effects of this disaster but I expected to see much more damage to the wildlife than actually is. Also, I understand more now that an over reaction will not help the parts of the gulf that need us as tourists, kind of a 2 edged sword.... We want to keep this in the forefront to force clean up efforts yet not so much that we hurt tourism of areas that are already suffering....

But, thanks SailorNYC for taking the time to put some facts out there for us.

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 01:42 PM
I agree with RVMan.

I've read the same thing (about other spills as well) -- that the "official count" is only an indicator. Yes, there is an official count, but that does not show the full picture of the life that has been lost in the water column or the birds and other animals that were swallowed by the sea.

The "official count" cannot be confused with a total count of loss of life or destruction occurring as a result of this gusher. The pictures tell a vastly more distressing story.

SailorNYC
June 7th, 2010, 02:00 PM
Dispersal of Oil Means Cleanup to Take Years, Official Says

By JOSEPH BERGER (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/b/joseph_berger/index.html?inline=nyt-per), BRIAN KNOWLTON (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/brian_knowlton/index.html?inline=nyt-per) and CLIFFORD KRAUSS (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/people/k/clifford_krauss/index.html?inline=nyt-per)

Published: June 7, 2010

"Although the Coast Guard had trained for the possibility of cleaning up a disastrous oil spill (http://topics.nytimes.com/top/reference/timestopics/subjects/o/oil_spills/gulf_of_mexico_2010/index.html?inline=nyt-classifier) in the Gulf of Mexico, it had never anticipated that oil would spread across such a broad area and break up into hundreds of thousands of patches as the current spill has done, the commander heading the federal response to the spill said Monday.

“It’s the breadth and complexity of the disaggregation of the oil” that is now posing the greatest clean-up challenge, the commander, Adm. Thad W. Allen, said at a news conference at the White House.

He underscored the challenge by acknowledging, in response to a reporter’s question, that it would take years to mitigate the impact of the spill on the marshes, beaches and wildlife on the Gulf Coast. On Sunday, the admiral had said it could take well into autumn to deal with the slick that is spreading relentlessly across four states of the gulf.

“This is a long campaign, and we’re going to be dealing with this for the foreseeable future,” he said..."

For full article:
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/06/08/us/08spill.html?hp

mafig
June 7th, 2010, 02:44 PM
SailorNYC,
In your research have you run across anything about the Manatees?

Here in Florida they are endangered and protected. Being boaters, we're always running into "manatee zones" where the speed limit is low to protect these gentle cows. God forbid if you accidentally hit ONE you'll be plastered all over the local news.:eek: Even the loss of one of them has consequences.

I wonder how they'll fare?

Sargent_Schultz
June 7th, 2010, 02:55 PM
Animals are not immortal - it is not unusual to find dead ones and perhaps the spill is just helping to take care of those who were weak to begin with.

On the subject of cruise ships, there is a cleaning station in the Gulf for vessels (including cruise ships) departing the Lower Mississippi River, if needed.

http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&cd=1&ved=0CBsQFjAA&url=http%3A%2F%2Ffin.nepia.com%2Fmodules%2Fassetli brary%2Fz_extra%2FgetAsset.php%3Ftype%3Dfile%26id% 3D4537&rct=j&q=mississippi+ship+cleaning+station&ei=dz0NTOXzH5CKNoH1pbYE&usg=AFQjCNFv52G2sCsxFofN7XH65PWuKnMECw&sig2=mkyji6kt4EMNT7bezDsxww

{I think}

golfinggirl
June 7th, 2010, 04:08 PM
Thanks for your comments. You guys are right that even if the birds are treated and cleaned up to 50 per cent still die. They are kept in captivity because they still can't fend for themselves. The pelicans get confused by the oil sheen and dive right into it. Haven't seen the dead dolphins myself but heard reports yesterday that about 20 had washed ashore. I am an animal lover from way back and this is heartbreaking to see all of this happen due to a seemingly preventable act.

Sargent_Schultz
June 7th, 2010, 11:53 PM
Clean Oil Soaked Birds or Kill Them?

http://cosmiclog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/06/07/4475943-clean-the-birds-or-kill-them

Here are some stats (lots of "pending")

http://www.deepwaterhorizonresponse.com/posted/2931/FWNumbers_Web_7June_final_1_.597523.pdf

golfinggirl
June 8th, 2010, 09:47 AM
I had rather at least give them a fighting chance.

mafig
June 8th, 2010, 11:36 AM
I don't know. Our local wildlife shelter does a good job of releasing them after they're injured. Now it's not oil, but they're still under stress and most seem to do just fine.

They also have a volunteer vet that specializes in repairing turtle shells. A lot of people go over turtles that are crossing the road and take the top of their shells off. This can get infected. He rebuilds the shells and releases them....good as new. :)

SailorNYC
June 8th, 2010, 12:25 PM
Those that don't believe me, perhaps you will believe Sylvia Earle, who states that no spill has been as tragic as the current one in the Gulf of Mexico. This is a not a contest... in my opinion, being the "worst" is not the point... however, many people still do not take the spill seriously... many still need a wake up call:



“Since I began exploring the ocean as a marine scientist fifty years ago, more has been learned about the ocean than during all preceding history.
“At the same time, more has been lost.

“Two weeks ago, when I testified before Congress on the ecological impact of the oil spill in the Gulf of Mexico, I did so with perspective gained while sloshing around oiled beaches and marshes among dead and dying animals, diving under sheets of oily water and for years – as founder and executive of engineering companies –of working with those in the oil industry responsible for developing and operating sophisticated equipment in the sea.

“I also testified as one with a rare perspective gained through thousands of hours diving worldwide as an oceanographer, aquanaut, submersible pilot and explorer. This includes decades of personal research in the Gulf of Mexico observing, documenting and voicing concerns about human actions that have resulted in sharp declines in ocean health and resiliency.

“As Chief Scientist of the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration from 1990 to 1992, much of my time was devoted to the aftermath of two major catastrophic oil spills: the accidental loss of 11 million gallons of crude oil from the tanker, Exxon Valdez in Alaska and the deliberate release of 462 million gallons into the Persian Gulf as an act of “ecological terrorism” by Iraq. As tragic as they were, nothing compares with the estimated oil spill of between 504,000 and more than a million gallons a day that is currently gushing from a mile below the surface of the Gulf of Mexico in addition to close to two million gallons of toxic dispersants. The near-freezing temperature and high pressure combined with a lack of suitable equipment to effectively deal with an operational failure at that depth magnify the harm now being done to “America’s Mediterranean,” a tri-national treasure, the planet’s ninth largest body of water and therefore, a globally significant part of Earth’s life support system."

- Sylvia Earle

Full speech and more:
http://www.theplastiki.com/2010/06/2724/
Use blue thing on the right to scroll.

txwildflower2002
June 8th, 2010, 12:29 PM
I came to this thread to see what passengers embarking and disembarking at the ports. Are they going through the slicks, around them, or what?

mafig
June 8th, 2010, 12:35 PM
Sailor, I certainly believe you! I am just sick about this. My post was just responding to someone who made it seem like it was hopeless to try to save the wildlife. I think we can and should try.

mafig
June 8th, 2010, 12:36 PM
I came to this thread to see what passengers embarking and disembarking at the ports. Are they going through the slicks, around them, or what?


As far as I know the ships are still leaving on schedule. Might want to check the Carnival boards and read reviews for those ships.

EaglesRock
June 8th, 2010, 12:40 PM
I came to this thread to see what passengers embarking and disembarking at the ports. Are they going through the slicks, around them, or what?
For the time being around them. When the Carnival Magic debuts next year it will be able to levitate over them! :D

SailorNYC
June 8th, 2010, 12:44 PM
Mafig,

I did read that the manatees were at risk with this spill. :( When I come across the article again, I will post it.



Oh! I just saw your other comment. Of course, I was not directing my comments at you! Sorry for the misunderstanding. I did not want to name names... I thought the people who dissected my words and downplayed the spill could use facts ... clearly they are uninformed. I have enjoyed your posts, Mafig, and my heart is with you and everyone in the Gulf states. Have a lovely day :)

morninglight67
June 8th, 2010, 01:49 PM
For the time being around them. When the Carnival Magic debuts next year it will be able to levitate over them! :D

we needed some "levity" on the topic! hehe :o

Sargent_Schultz
June 8th, 2010, 03:46 PM
Turtles are easier to catch than pelicans.

Looking at video of them trying to capture pelicans it is clear that the pelicans want no part of it and I suspect are very stressed and traumatized by the procedure.

I saw very little in the Sylvia blog discussing what the final ecological impact is, but rather mostly some hypotheticals and estimates on the current spill size.

mafig
June 8th, 2010, 03:57 PM
Never mind:rolleyes:

golfinggirl
June 8th, 2010, 04:04 PM
Seems like this is a glass half empty versus glass half full group. :)

Julienatul
June 10th, 2010, 01:55 PM
We are regular cruisers and have an October cruise out of Tampa. We are traveling with most of my family. It was supposed to be the entire family introducing my brother-in-law to cruising. He's a worrier to put it mildly. He is now deciding not to go because of the oil spill. Any info or articles out there I can use to convince him there will be no harm to him or the family and the cruiselines are good at monitoring these things? We are headed to Grand cayman and Cozumel.

mcain1006
June 10th, 2010, 02:46 PM
We are cruising out in Dec from New Orleans. Do you think we should get insurance just in case the oil gets worst? Will the insurance help to get our money back if things change?

Astona
June 10th, 2010, 05:02 PM
thats an excellent question, will the cruise insurance cover cruises that have issues due to oil ?

RVman
June 10th, 2010, 05:15 PM
I don’t think that you need to be worrying about any cruise insurance because of the oil spill. If for some reason the ship doesn’t cruise because of the oil you will be reimbursed anyways.
I know we cruised out of Mobile once and a hurricane was out in the Gulf, we were told we could either have our money back or cruise, we were already there so we said cruise :eek:
It’s bad don’t get me wrong but the ships can steer away from it to where you want even know it’s there, the Gulf of Mexico is a large body of water.
Hopefully they can get a handle on this thing and themselves so we can began to get started cleaning it up.

NCL_Cruiser
June 10th, 2010, 07:06 PM
super angry over Obama again passing the buck on this one and also doing nothing.

Heard this argument before...yet he'd be acting like a Socialist again if he were to have hurried up taken over the incident right away. At that point, he would have been better off letting the company that has all of the technology and know how handle the crisis. Sheesh...

mafig
June 10th, 2010, 07:22 PM
He said he spoke to the fishermen 45 days ago, but he believed BP and BP lied to him and US.

Sargent_Schultz
June 10th, 2010, 10:18 PM
Obama will be making his 4th visit to the area next week. Every time he visits, more things get done.

The military doesn't have the capability to kill the leak.

deepnite10
June 10th, 2010, 10:28 PM
and now they want to pass a city ordinance forbidding the washing of your cars due to the water run off..:confused:

RVman
June 10th, 2010, 10:48 PM
Obama will be making his 4th visit to the area next week. Every time he visits, more things get done.

The military doesn't have the capability to kill the leak.

Well he needs to pitch a tent then, because so far not much has been done at what 52 days in. We find out 52 days later that twice the amount of oil had been spilling in the Gulf. That’s 1.7 million gallons a day or a Exxon Valdez every 5 days.
He can forget Florida in 12, he's not too popular right now and has fallen to a 40% approval here. We are having the same problem as the rest of the coast is.
La still having problems with exactly who is in charge
Plaquemines Parish President Billy Nungesser was in Washington today. He testified this morning before a U.S. Senate committee, and he told lawmakers that the "responsible party" is failing.

"You've got the parish presidents running the whole show," Nungesser told the panel. "BP could fire all their contractors because they are doing absolutely nothing but destroying our marsh."

Nungesser explained that he feels the contractors and BP are standing in the way of saving the coast. He was also angry with the Coast Guard.

"I still don't know whose in charge. Is it BP? Is it the Coast Guard?"

The Plaquemines president said all of that is delaying efforts to battle the attacking crude.

"I have spent more time fighting the officials of BP and the Coast Guard than I have spent fighting the oil."

EaglesRock
June 10th, 2010, 11:03 PM
Obama will be making his 4th visit to the area next week. Every time he visits, more things get done.

I'm glad you think so because most elected officials in the affected areas and the majority of the idled fishermen and seafood processors that are about to go bankrupt surely don't share your enthusiasm for his performance during this crisis! :rolleyes:

Sargent_Schultz
June 11th, 2010, 12:01 AM
I'm glad you think so because most elected officials in the affected areas and the majority of the idled fishermen and seafood processors that are about to go bankrupt surely don't share your enthusiasm for his performance during this crisis!

It certainly wouldn't hurt Billy to go on a diet - do you disagree? ;)

The oil spill happened and is happening. That is reality. Jobs are being temporarily lost - that is true. Neither has anything to do with the President or his performance. That's a fact! The last time the BOP was tested was 2005, that's a fact. Cleanup jobs (and industries) are also being created. That's a fact!

The economy of Louisiana is more dependent on oil that it is on seafood - that's a fact, and I love seafood, also a fact. :)

Many people are ticked off about the drilling moratorium which is only going to cause more jobs to be lost, more oil imported, and higher costs to the consumers of oil in the US including the fishermen in the Gulf coast region.

I didn't make the statement up about things get done when the President shows up - the governor of Louisiana said it. Don't shoot the messenger! ;):rolleyes:

None of this has anything to do with cruise ships being affected. None have been and I doubt any will have a significant impact.

ActiveTraveler
June 11th, 2010, 12:40 AM
Hurricane Katrina forced one cruise line (I can't remember which) to cancel an itinerary. So I kept thinking surely at least one cruise that had been scheduled to embark in New Orleans would be canceled because of the oil spill. If that never happened, good for the cruise industry and its passengers.

EaglesRock
June 11th, 2010, 03:52 PM
It certainly wouldn't hurt Billy to go on a diet - do you disagree? ;)

I fail to see how Billy's weight has anything to do with what we're discussing. I like to kid around as much as anyone here but I hope you're not insinuating that the tremendous stress Billy is under as he watches his parish being slowly ruined by the incoming oil should have the unintended side effect of causing him to lose weight. The man has worked tirelessly since the explosion to muster the meager resources to fight the oil and keep his constituents morale up, and I would not want to be in his shoes right now or in the coming months. Besides, I'm sure we could all stand to lose a few pounds; fighting an oil spill is just not the way most of us would want to lose them though!

Sargent_Schultz
June 11th, 2010, 04:27 PM
I fail to see how Billy's weight has anything to do with what we're discussing. I like to kid around as much as anyone here but I hope you're not insinuating that the tremendous stress Billy is under as he watches his parish being slowly ruined by the incoming oil should have the unintended side effect of causing him to lose weight. The man has worked tirelessly since the explosion to muster the meager resources to fight the oil and keep his constituents morale up, and I would not want to be in his shoes right now or in the coming months. Besides, I'm sure we could all stand to lose a few pounds; fighting an oil spill is just not the way most of us would want to lose them though!

Lack of food would cause him to lose weight. I am really concerned that the stress and obesity could have serious health consequences for him. I think he is a good man.

deb2543
June 12th, 2010, 07:03 AM
thats an excellent question, will the cruise insurance cover cruises that have issues due to oil ?

My daughter has a cruise in December out of Mobile and she called her TA regarding insurance and they said the spill won't be covered due to the fact that its preexisting.

Rockhound62
June 12th, 2010, 09:34 AM
Greetings All!
Just got back from a cruise out of (and back to) Mobile. On the way out we didn't see anything of the oil, it was dark when we were traveling through it. But on the way back you could see an oily sheen covering the water at sunset the evening before we docked. The water churned up by the boat was a dull olive green, a color we hadn't seen all trip. There was a slight smell, but not overwhelming.
They say the oil forms a layer thinner than a human hair on the water, and this is what we were seeing. Not as "sexy" as the mousse, tar balls or whatever else it is doing near shore. Just oil on water, but who knows how long we traveled through it. Didn't think to check the side of the Elation the next morning as we left the ship, we were caught up in lining up for customs!