Itinerary Bait & Switch?

[d.fran]

Last month we were boarding the Veendam for Key west, Belieze City, and Santo Tomas;
instead we went to Grand cayman and Jamaica!
This was a ruined trip for us. Is this common to HAL?
dfran

[Esme]

Sometimes they will change one port, but why was your cruise ruined for you?

Did your TA not inform you of the change? You should have known before you boarded the ship - the change would have been in your documents.

[tomc]

I'm not familiar with the neighborhood, but would it have something to do with rebuilding after the storm season?

[d.fran]

No advisement of change. Maybe that is how Holland Amer offers those "Huge Savings" you see on their Icon shown above on this page.

I agree the TA was also in the know and kept mum even as we signed up (the 2nd time in 2004) as we signed up late for the trips. And the first trip last year had already taken us to Grand Cayman and Jamaica (And once is enough for those.)
Appears we do no more business with HAL or Cruises Only.
dfran

[localady]

HAL seems to be changing ports alot more lately. We also were disappointed when they switched our ports days, took away the fireworks at Curacao, and put us into Aruba on a holiday, and the shop owners didn't open as they thought the Rotterdam would be there the next day!!:o

I can't say it ruined our cruise, but our companions, who were big shoppers were just furious at the change. I know on our itinerary it was not due to hurricane damage, and it made me wonder why they would switch the ports. I was disappointing.:o

[dakrewser]

No advisement of change. Maybe that is how Holland Amer offers those "Huge Savings" you see on their Icon shown above on this page.

I agree the TA was also in the know and kept mum even as we signed up (the 2nd time in 2004) as we signed up late for the trips. And the first trip last year had already taken us to Grand Cayman and Jamaica (And once is enough for those.)
Appears we do no more business with HAL or Cruises Only.
dfran

The Cruise Lines are at the mercy of the various countries and ports. Where hurricane damage is as extensive as it was last fall it can take quite a while for recovery to occur. In the meantime everyone gets moved about. It is incunbent on your Travel Agent to keep you up to date on any changes that might be occuring.

Still, when you got your docs, what did they show? And what date did you sail? I see the the 12/11/04 cruise went to Grand cayman and Jamaica (see here (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=111777&highlight=veendam)) but the posters from that cruise all appeared to expect that it would go to those ports.

[anngie]

I won't say that the change of itineraries 3 times since we booked our Westerdam inaugural cruise in December til sailing day ruined our cruise but the final choice of ports of Ocho Rios and Grand Cayman left a lot to be desired. Both days I wished that I had never left the ship before I got back onboard.
I think we will be looking to book more land vacations instead of cruises in the future.

[d.fran]

Yep it was the 12/11 cruise, ticket in hand for Key West, Belieze city and Santo Tomas. Hurracaine damage in all 3? don't think so. But Hal did save money.
We just started crusing, but if one can't count on what he bought, it is back to land travel for us also.

[tomc]

Is this:

(a) Common in the Caribbean? (I only travel north -- NE/C and Alaska-- and never experienced it.)
(b) Exclusive to HAL?
(c) Something that should be asked in a specific thread on the "Ask A Cruise Question" board?

My reason for posting this (and it is not a flame) is that one person's post about one cruise should not be a company-wide black eye. However, if others had the same experience but had never mentioned it publicly, there might be a pattern that only a message board would uncover. A general forum, like the "Ask A Cruise Question" board would be better than a line-specific board like this one.

Ladies and gentlemen, start your engines.

[localady]

TomC-

I believe the cruiser asked just about HAL. Many of us don't frequent the other boards and since this has occurred more than a few times of late on HAL Caribbean cruises, I think this forum is the best. But that is JMHO.:cool:

[gizmo]

Changing of ports do sometimes occurr. It seldom makes people happy. All cruise lines do state they have the right to switch the ports. You have to read the fine print.

If the TA knew at the time you booked the cruise, that is the person to blame, not Hal. It sounds like Hal did make the change in itinerary known to the travel industry since you said the TA kept mum.

This is from a post Nov 21.

As of about a half hour ago, we have been advised that the itinerary for the ms VEENDAM 12/11/04 sailing has been placed back on it's originally scheduled itinerary as a result of the port of Grand Cayman being open and operational.

It appears Hal switched back to the original itinerary which made the majority of the pax happy.

I don't see Hal pulling a Switch and Bait by any means. It seems like you relied on a bad TA.

tomc,
Yes, these changes were because of the hurricanes. All cruise lines had to switch things around because of damage to the islands. In this case the itinerary was switched back to the original since Grand Cayman reopened their port.

[tomc]

localady and gizmo --

Thanks for the info and update.

[jhannah]

I certainly understand being disappointed at missing a port you were looking forward to. But that's the nature of the beast. Sometimes airlines, even, have to divert and go somewhere else. All cruise lines will shuffle ports as needed/required. The only port I ever "missed" was Cartagena, which appeared on the itinerary up to the last minute but we all knew we wouldn't stop there for safety reasons. Please don't give up on cruising, or HAL, just because of this. Even land-based travel plans can go awry. I would, however, look for a new TA!

[TWELVEOHONE]

Was on a different cruise line last month which was suppose to stop in Grenada. Due to huricane damage Grenada was replaced with a day at sea.

Thsi became a point of discussion at dinner at other times.
My Travel agent informed us about 3-week prior to departure about this change. Other passengers on the ship that had booked directly with the cruise line and/or on the internet were not told about the change.

[lipoppop]

Last month we were boarding the Veendam for Key west, Belieze City, and Santo Tomas;
instead we went to Grand cayman and Jamaica!
This was a ruined trip for us. Is this common to HAL?
dfran


FYI I was also on that cruise. It was originally sold as going to Jamaica and Grand cayman. But due to the hurricanes it was changed to Belize and Santo Thomas and Key West. Then it was changed back to THE ORIGINAL ITINERARY when HAL felt the ports were usable.

If the trip was ruined you shouldn't have booked it in the first place.

:cool:

[anngie]

How do you know that dfran did not sign up for the cruise when it was listed as being Key West,Santo Tomas and Belize as the itinerary? It was shown that way for several months on the HAL website.
Our cruise was originally scheduled to stop in Montego Bay. It was changed twice in the last 2 weeks before sailing - once back to Montego Bay and then to Ocho Rios. Some of the changes could be due to high port charges in Key West.

[d.fran]

What do you mean I should not have signed up? The Hal web site listed those ports. The travel documents Hal sent me listed those ports. there was no notification of change. (And there has not been any explanation from Hal re reason for the changes.) I can understand one change of port, but not three.
And only two good ports were replaced by two mediocre ones, we didn't get one port replaced at all, they just dropped one stop.
There was no storm damage in Key West, right? the others I'm not sure of but doubt there was any in the guatemala port of Santo Tomas.

[gizmo]

Hal did update their web site on Nov 21.


HAL updated the website. So I guess it is official.
You can book the shore excursions on the HAL web site for Montego Bay and Georgetown.

I agree there were a lot of mixups as to where ships were going but a good TA should have been aware of this.

I have to assume you received your documents before the change back to the original itinerary. Someone should have notified you.

There was no storm damage in Key West, right? the others I'm not sure of but doubt there was any in the guatemala port of Santo Tomas.

I think you are misunderstanding why the ports were changed. Key West, Guatemala and Belize did not have storm damage, the original ports did. When the islands gave the OK, the cruise line switched back to the original itinerary, which was probably expected by the majority of the pax.

[lipoppop]

What do you mean I should not have signed up? The Hal web site listed those ports. The travel documents Hal sent me listed those ports. there was no notification of change. (And there has not been any explanation from Hal re reason for the changes.) I can understand one change of port, but not three.
And only two good ports were replaced by two mediocre ones, we didn't get one port replaced at all, they just dropped one stop.
There was no storm damage in Key West, right? the others I'm not sure of but doubt there was any in the guatemala port of Santo Tomas.

HAL could not change only one port as there are considerable distances between them. So the package is Jamaica and Grand Cayman or Belize, Santo Thomas and Key West. HAL adverises both packages. In fact the cruise before yours was scheduled for Belize Etc. and made those stops. HAL did not advertise the Belize etc. itinerary "for months" as somebody said. Rather it was for less than a month.

The documents showed the Belize etc. itinerary because that was in effect when they were printed. The web site showed the changes back to the original itinerary. That is how I found out. My TA didn't notify me.

When did you book?

[peaches from georgia]

You just can't please all of the people all of the time. HAL had a very popular cruise scheduled to go to Grand Cayman and Jamaica, rnd trip Tampa. Many people booked it. Along comes a hurricane making these ports impossible to visit for an unknown period of time, so HAL subs several other ports, I'm sure disappointing many of the pax who were already booked on the original itinerary. Time passes and the original itinerary becomes doable again and HAL changes back, an itinerary that had been cancelled through no fault of the cruiseline.

Either way, at that point all pax who were already booked had booked under an itinerary that was later changed, either from original to subbed itineraries or from subbed to original. That's life and none of it was a plot by HAL, just changed circumstances. Certainly no bait and switch; that's ridiculous. Lots of cruises on various lines had cancelled itineraries this fall.

It seems fair to me that HAL went with the original itinerary when it became possible, and I bet most impartial observers would agree. :rolleyes:

[localady]

Possibly the problem here was that the TA failed to let the client know that the itinerary they were booking actually had changed due to the hurricanes and could be changed to the original schedule if conditions improved.:cool:

[98Charlie]

I would agree with Peaches. I register myself as an impartial observer since I have never sailed HAL and have no loyalty to any particular cruise line.

It would seem that the original itinerary was defined and reservations taken. Hurricanes ravage the ports and cause a change of itinerary. The ports re-open and HAL goes back to the original itinerary (which would be the one listed in all of their brochures).

You probably booked during the time when the substitute itinerary was listed. If I were you, I would be upset that HAL did not have an astrisk next to the subsitute itinerary saying that it would go back to the original if the original ports opened up.

More than that, if you used a full service TA, I would be more upset with him/her.

It's unfortunate that this happened on your first cruise. If you look at all the possible cruises in a given year and how many have changes of itinerary (especially this dramatic) you will see that it doesn't really happen all that often.

Charlie

[shipcafe]

No advisement of change. Maybe that is how Holland Amer offers those "Huge Savings" you see on their Icon shown above on this page.

I agree the TA was also in the know and kept mum even as we signed up (the 2nd time in 2004) as we signed up late for the trips. And the first trip last year had already taken us to Grand Cayman and Jamaica (And once is enough for those.)
Appears we do no more business with HAL or Cruises Only.
dfran

It is HAL's fault that your TA did not pass along the fax with advanced information?

[dakrewser]

Yep it was the 12/11 cruise, ticket in hand for Key West, Belieze city and Santo Tomas. Hurracaine damage in all 3? don't think so. But Hal did save money.
We just started crusing, but if one can't count on what he bought, it is back to land travel for us also.

My wife and I personnally believe that Grand Cayman is one of the better ports in the Caribbean, but everyone has they're own opinion on that.

It's unfortunate that your TA didn't advise you that you were saigning up for an alternative itinerary which could revert back to the original. But I'd place 90% of the blame on them. The cruise line has no idea what the TA may have told you.

And no, this doesn't happen often. But back-to-back-tro-back hurricanes don't happen often, either.

-dave

[lindacat]

I was on the 11/5 sailing of the Veendam. I had booked it far in advance. I believe at that time the ship was alternating between the Key West, Santo Tomas, & Belize and the Grand Cayman/ Jamaica routes. The hurricane had forced them into sailing all Belize routes. While we were on board, one of the officers told us that they had received word that the Jamaica/ Grand Cayman stops were once again opened. The Ship leaving on the 12th would be sailing Jamaica/ Grand Cayman rather than Belize.

Linda

[d.fran]

When there is such a drastic change in itinerary, do any lines allow you to cancel out? that's what I would have requested had I known before getting on board.

[dakrewser]

When there is such a drastic change in itinerary, do any lines allow you to cancel out? that's what I would have requested had I known before getting on board.

Before final payment, you can cancel for any reason. After that, there is a pro-rated charge based on how close to sailing the cancelation comes. All major cruise lines do the same. Sometimes (such as during the hurricane problems last fall) the cruise lines will let you cancel (but will issue a credit towards another cruise, not a refund). Otherwise, you'd need to rely on your travel issurance to cover a cancellation.

-dave

[JDee]

Before final payment, you can cancel for any reason. After that, there is a pro-rated charge based on how close to sailing the cancelation comes. All major cruise lines do the same. Sometimes (such as during the hurricane problems last fall) the cruise lines will let you cancel (but will issue a credit towards another cruise, not a refund). Otherwise, you'd need to rely on your travel issurance to cover a cancellation.

-dave

Since the ship has not cancelled the cruise, only changed ports of call, I don't think insurance would cover the situation. Just because the insured does not desire to sail and visit the changed ports would not be an insurable event. Believe the insurance company would make reference to the usual escape clause whereby the cruise line can change ports and refuse payment. And rightly so in my opinion.....

Happy cruising.....

[gizmo]

Since the ship has not cancelled the cruise, only changed ports of call, I don't think insurance would cover the situation. Just because the insured does not desire to sail and visit the changed ports would not be an insurable event. Believe the insurance company would make reference to the usual escape clause whereby the cruise line can change ports and refuse payment. And rightly so in my opinion.....

Happy cruising.....

This is true of all travel insurance except if you buy it through HAL. Hal's insurance will allow you to cancel for ANY reason but you will pay a very high premium using Hal. I haven't read the fine print on this in a long time, but I believe a couple of years ago the policy changed what percentage you get back, depending on when you cancel. (At one time it was 100%, up to 24 hours before departure date)

[peaches from georgia]

I believe the Standard HAL Cancellation Policy pays up to 80% and the Platinum pays 90% of what you paid for the cruise. However, the premium you pay is based on the full brochure price of your cabin, NOT the discounted amount that you actually paid. Therefore, the premium is very high- your premium is a % of an amount much higher than what the reimbursement will be. :eek:

[doone]

I know changing ports can be disappointing, but imagine if the ships went into these ports that were so badly damaged by the hurricanes or went when it was not safe for whatever reason, can't you hear the complaints then!!!!!

I feel it was the TA's fault for not notifying this poor poster of the change. Should HAL foot some of the blame, some will say yes, I personally feel no. It is written in the brochures that the cruise line, and this is all cruiselines, not just HAL, that they can change ports at any point in time and this is all done for the safety of passengers.

I still say the TA is mostly to blame and in this instance, this is when a TA is worth their weight in gold.