Tips or Gratuities

[anngie]

This is the policy of a cruise line which will I will not name. I think this policy is very clear. The official tipping policy is that tips are optional at the discretion of the passenger. It was emphasized on board during a travel agents seminar that the official policy is that tipping is not required. Tips are not charged to the passengers on board accounts and tip envelopes are not distributed to the cabins the last day of the cruise. If a passenger wishes to tip a staff member for outstanding service they must go to the reception desk and ask for a tip envelope. All tips must be in cash and cannot be charged to your on board account.This cruise lines states that all staff members are paid a higher than average salary and do not have to depend on tips as part of the “wage”. The flip side of this policy is that you don’t get those cute towel animals in your cabin and the level of service is less personal.
Most everyone likes to tip for good service. Maybe other cruise lines such as Holland America should follow this example.

[sail7seas]

About which cruise line are you speaking? Why would you not have stated which one in your post?

For a great many years, the tipping policy on HAL was Tipping not Required.


You would be shocked how many folks found it very easy to simply walk away and tip the crew absolutely nothing. We saw this cruise after cruise. They claimed the policy was confusing to them.

I think you know the new policy which HAL instituted during this last year.
If you do not know and wish for someone to explain it, just ask. There have been a great many threads about it.

[anngie]

MSC is the cruise line. I did not mention it because I did not want it to seem that I was advertising for them.
I wonder if people did not tip because their travel agents misunderstood the policy.

[sail7seas]

No....I think not.


The Cruise Director always explained the policy in very clear langauge. It was not confusing in the least.... Unless one wished to use it as an 'excuse' to salve their conscience for 'stiffing the crew'.
JMHO, of course.


I am sure I am dumb but what is MSC? Thank you.

[Pudgesmom]

We did not tip on Holland America before the current policy. We were not regular cruisers and had no idea "tipping not required" meant, "most people are leaving one, and if you don't, you're a shmuck." I wish they had made it more clear. We would never leave a restaurant without tipping, excepting exceptionally poor service. In fact, we thought that the crew was just paid a higher wage.

Please don't jump on previous non-tippers. I think the fault lies with Holland America for a very unclear policy on this one.

Sail, I must add that we never attend any of the cruise director's speeches, as we are under the impression that they were advertisments for products for sale.

Beth

[anngie]

MSC is Mediterranean Shipping Company. They are an Italian Cruise Line whose ships sail from Port Everglades in the winter. MSC is the largest commercial shipping line in the world. They have a lovely new ship, Opera.
We have sailed on the MSC Melody once. We did tip our cabin steward and our waiters.

[Globaliser]

We did not tip on Holland America before the current policy. We were not regular cruisers and had no idea "tipping not required" meant, "most people are leaving one, and if you don't, you're a shmuck." I wish they had made it more clear.This, IMHO, was why the old HAL tipping policy eventually came unstuck. When they said "tipping not required", they failed to make clear that it meant "tipping is still expected".

A cruise line that says "tipping not required" and means "tipping is neither needed nor expected, because we've already paid the crew everything they would expect to get by way of tips on other cruise lines" would be doing themselves a great favour.

[doone]

The tipping not required was always explained in the Know Before You Go booklet in your documents. I never had a problem understanding the old tipping policy and I have no problem understanding the new one.

I remember a thread maybe a year ago where some newbies and some veterans to HAL wanted to have the tips added onto the shipboard account, well folks, that's what has happened, and there are still unhappy people!!!!!!! I guess what my grandmother has always told me, you will never please everyone all of the time, so do what you feel is right at the time.

[sail7seas]

Sail, I must add that we never attend any of the cruise director's speeches, as we are under the impression that they were advertisments for products for sale.




The Cruise Director's 'speech' I reference is his Disembarkation Talk given at the end of the cruise.

During the talk, he explains the procedure for going from ship to shore and has always explained Tipping.....or Tipping not Required. I cannot imagine what you thought he was selling. :)

[Oceanwench]

This, IMHO, was why the old HAL tipping policy eventually came unstuck. When they said "tipping not required", they failed to make clear that it meant "tipping is still expected".

A cruise line that says "tipping not required" and means "tipping is neither needed nor expected, because we've already paid the crew everything they would expect to get by way of tips on other cruise lines" would be doing themselves a great favour.

I have to agree with your view on this topic.
Before I sailed on HAL in 2003, being a HAL newbie, I read the various cruise message boards constantly.
One of the most frequently discussed matters was that of tipping. Seemed as though no one could agree to what "no tipping required" meant.
Even when I got my docs and read the "Know Before You Go" booklet, I was still confused.
And the CD's disembarkation talk didn't help me understand the tipping issue at all.
I purchased envelopes while in port and put cash tips in them to distribute. I had no guidelines to follow as to a suggested $ amount pp/day, so I wasn't sure just what would be a good tip.
I was amazed at the number of dining room regulars who did not show up on the last night -- I had to think some of them were stiffing the servers.

As Globaliser states, the policy was more or less "tipping is not required, but expected" in those days.

Now with the $10/pp/day automatically added to the bill, things can still get confusing.
Are additional tips expected? Or is $140 enough for DH & me to pay for the wonderful HAL service we received?
We gave extra tips on our last HAL cruise ... seemed it was the right thing to do.

[trubey]

quote] I was amazed at the number of dining room regulars who did not show up on the last night -- I had to think some of them were stiffing the servers.[unquote.

What do you make of the situation WE encountered?

The last day and night of the cruise, our regular cabin steward and dining room attendants were conspicuously absent! Our cabin was made up, after a fashion, and meals were served, after a fashion, but nowhere were our efficient steward, Nawan, or our Head Waiter (whose name escapes me) to be found.

When we asked what was going on, we got a nice smile and a bobbing of the head which seemed to say, "Yes, sir." and nothing else.

Lane

[doone]

I have never had a problem finding my dining room steward and my cabin steward made up the room efficiently. Wonder what happened on your cruise?

This last cruise on the Rotterdam, they closed the Lido for dinner, which I thought was a good idea. The dining room was filled, didn't see an empty table anywhere.

[Oceanwench]

Trubey,

The number of empty tables on the last night -- when people traditonally hand out tips to the dining room staff [at least pre-automatic tip -- was very noticeable.
I mentioned the fact to my husband, who has much more experience in cruising than I.
He told me that it frequently happens on the last night, b/c people don't want to tip.

I can't believe that so many people decided to head to the Lido or Pinnacle on the last night ...

After reading this and other cruise-related message boards, I learned from more experienced cruisers that it is, indeed, some people's practice to avoid the dining room on the last night.

As for "disappearing" waiters/cabin stewards, I did not have that problem.
Our wonderful cabin steward on the Oosterdam was shaking our hand and wishing us well as we left to disembark.

[sail7seas]

DH and I often commented when we saw empty tables in the dining room the last evening.



Well, this cruise OUR table was empty. I was ill and could not possibly have come to the dining room and BELIEVE me, they most assuredly did not want me there.

Anyone looking at our empty table would have thought....hmmm, look at that. Those folks were usually here (we were absent a few nights for Pinnacle and Suite dinner), but tonight they are 'stiffing the crew'.

No....we weren't stiffing the crew.

DH came to the dining room specifically to look for our stewards so that he could say thank you, good-bye and tip them although he did not have his dinner there.

I guess I learned to not judge.......one never knows the 'whole story'.

[Oceanwench]

Um ... I notice a lot of *judging* done on these boards.

That being said ... on our last cruise, which was after the automatic tipping was in place, I did not notice a lot of empty tables in the dining room. If I noticed one or two, I would not have *judged* the missing occupants.

But on the cruise to which I referred in a previous post, I noticed the empty tables because there were so many of them.
One couldn't help but notice ... as in, "Gee, are we really early, no one is here!"

I, being the inexperienced cruiser, was puzzled.
DH, being the experienced cruiser, gave me his opinion.
That opinion has been reinforced time and again on this and other cruise message boards.

[anngie]

The last Holland America cruise we were were on was in December. What difference does it make now whether you show up in the dining room or not on the last night of the cruise? The tips are already automatically to your shipboard account. We were never thanked by any of the crew who got their tips and really did not expect to be. I think the new tipping system is only a service charge. That was my point of posting the other cruise line's policy.
It seems a lot better system to me for the cruise line just to say that they are paying the crew well already, that tipping is optional and if you want to reward good service with a tip they will be glad to allow you to do so personally.:)

[DFD1]

Personally, I think MSC is on to something good here.

I have often thought HAL would have been better off if they had simply started to build the tips into the cost of the cruise, or present it them as a fixed service charge, and have continued marketing HAL as a "no tipping" or "tipping not required" cruise line.

When we first started cruising with HAL several years ago, one of the things that attracted us to HAL was the fact that we hated dealing with the envelopes on the last night. They were a nuisance for us as we were trying to pack and be ready to disembark. These are personal feelings, of course.

[TedC]

I don't recall ever being in a restaurant where tipping was "required." It was never mandated, but certainly was expected, and from my observation just about everybody seems to know enough to tip.

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?

Duh

[doone]

Tedc, BINGO!!!!!! I couldn't have said it better myself.

[ryansmemom]

I don't recall ever being in a restaurant where tipping was "required." It was never mandated, but certainly was expected, and from my observation just about everybody seems to know enough to tip.

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?

Duh

As I read this thread, I was thinking the very same thing. I may be mistaken, but I have I do not recall anyone being confused about the tipping issue in a land based venue.

I know I am sticking my neck out here ;) when I assume that most people on a cruise have some experience patronizing land based restaurants or hotels/motels. I do not know of anyone who has difficulty determining the appropraitness of leaving a tip in these situations. I may be wrong. Please let me know if I am. As far as guidelines, these situations teach us, at the very least, who is customarily the receipeint of tips in our society, on land or at sea.

Tipping, for me at least, had always been an expression of my gratitude for services rendered. I have never depended on guidelines. How can anyone possibly know how grateful I feel? How can anyone possibly know to whom I wish to express that gratitude? My experience on land has taught me the basics of who is customerily tipped. The amount is determined by the value I put on their service.

However, I have found that on board, people have rendered service to me in ways that I have not found on land. What about those people? The cook who cheerfully grilled my cheeseburger each afternoon? I tipped him. If someone was deserving of a tip, in my opinion, I gave him/her a tip. I did it because it felt good to do so.

As far as the auto-tip. I do not mind it. At first I did, but I have rationalized it in this way. When I am on a cruise I am interested in having the best time possible. I am a very generous person. The auto-tip puts more money in the crew's pockets. My experience has been that the level of service has not changed. The only change I did see was due to decreased staff in the dining room. I will continue to tip those I feel are deserving of a tip regardless of their inclusion in the auto-tip process. I am rewarding personal service to me.

By the way, the level of service I have received on HAL has always been exceptionally wonderful.

Forgive me, but like Ted, I do not understand why the sea air seems to confuse people.

**Just a note** Please forgive my spelling and typos. I have the flu and pneumonia.

Linda

[peaches from georgia]

Is it something about the sea air that those same people no longer thought that tipping was expected - even though it was not "required"?
Duh
We knew what 'tipping not required' meant because of reading on CC for so long before our first HAL cruise. However, the 2 other couples at our table did NOT know because their different TAs had both told them that tips were INCLUDED in the price of the cruise.

These were people who, believe me, knew the protocol of tipping very well and when I informed them what the 'TNR' policy meant, they were truly shocked. And they tipped all their stewards, concierges, etc. very nicely after they understood tipping was not included. They were embarrassed and thankful the subject had come up, but their TAs were to blame for misinforming them.

So to blame everyone seen not tipping as being cheap is unfair. Of course, now with the new policy no one has any idea who is tipping and who is not, so there is no judgement of others possible.

[Globaliser]

What do you make of the situation WE encountered?

The last day and night of the cruise, our regular cabin steward and dining room attendants were conspicuously absent! Our cabin was made up, after a fashion, and meals were served, after a fashion, but nowhere were our efficient steward, Nawan, or our Head Waiter (whose name escapes me) to be found.I've no idea whether this might have been the case, but crew who are going on leave (or, more technically, ending a contract) usually go ashore and go home on a passenger turnaround day. So it's just possible that they were all going home the next day, and therefore getting themselves sorted out for that. Not that it always happens, because I've seen many crew still working on their last night before going home, but it's a possibility.As I read this thread, I was thinking the very same thing. I may be mistaken, but I have I do not recall anyone being confused about the tipping issue in a land based venue.

I know I am sticking my neck out here ;) when I assume that most people on a cruise have some experience patronizing land based restaurants or hotels/motels. I do not know of anyone who has difficulty determining the appropraitness of leaving a tip in these situations. I may be wrong. Please let me know if I am. As far as guidelines, these situations teach us, at the very least, who is customarily the receipeint of tips in our society, on land or at sea.Actually, this is not so. Every time I go to a different country, I have to remind myself what the particular tipping culture is.

I spend a lot of time in countries in which you really wouldn't even think of tipping anyone, other than in very exceptional circumstances.

Also, I live in a country where great big HEAVY HINTS (often in block capitals) are given when you need to tip because you wouldn't really think of doing so otherwise - eg in the type of restaurant where a tip is expected. In addition, there are certain sorts of tipping (eg bar staff) which are common in the US, but would be regarded as downright insulting if you tried it here.

If a cruise line says "tipping not required" and (wrongly) gives the impression that tipping is not expected, either, I don't think that you can necessarily fault passengers who act on that impression.

[heyabbott]

We are relatively experienced vacation travelers and have always left cash on the desk or bed for the maid.

We are great restaurant diners and always leave a 20% tip.

However, when the restuarant includes the tip on the check, that's what they get, except under incredibly unusual circumstances.

I always tip the porter who brings the bags to the room. $5/bag

HAL charges a reasonable $10/day/person as a gratuity.

MY questions:

Do you still leave money daily for the maid?

Do you tip your server on every meal?

Do you tip the room service porter?

Will I even see the baggage porter?

If you do all this tipping, what's the $10 a day for and who gets it.

[Jackjenson]

friend who has been on many, many, many cruises, (By the way, HAL is her favorite line) used to say that "tips are included in the price" not "tips are not required", on HAL.

She used it as a way to point out the difference in cost back when HAL was significantly more expensive than some other lines for basically the same itinerary. [of course HAL had other nice things that a certain class of cruiser would think worthy of slightly more cost....meaning the nice things had value] but I remember her weighing pros and cons and costs and values with many potential cruisers and saying that gratuities were included in the pricing.

Before I get her in trouble though, she always did tip additionally anyway.

[ryansmemom]

We knew what 'tipping not required' meant because of reading on CC for so long before our first HAL cruise. However, the 2 other couples at our table did NOT know because their different TAs had both told them that tips were INCLUDED in the price of the cruise.

These were people who, believe me, knew the protocol of tipping very well and when I informed them what the 'TNR' policy meant, they were truly shocked. And they tipped all their stewards, concierges, etc. very nicely after they understood tipping was not included. They were embarrassed and thankful the subject had come up, but their TAs were to blame for misinforming them.

So to blame everyone seen not tipping as being cheap is unfair. Of course, now with the new policy no one has any idea who is tipping and who is not, so there is no judgement of others possible.


I do know that TA's told people that tips were included in HAL cruises. I have friends who are travel agents who did just that and were truly astonished when I told them that it was not true.

I did not mean to imply that people were being "cheap" when they did not tip. However, there is an interesting phenomena, psychologically speaking, where upon we generalize knowledge from one situation to another. Most of the time we do generalize, that is how we deal with new situations, it helps reduce anxiety. For example, my behavior in restaurant A, where I have eaten every week will help me know how to behave in restaurant B. This is fine if restaurant A is McDonalds and B is Burger King. However if B is Ruth's Chris, I might be in trouble.

However, even if i stay at Motel 6, I leave a few dollars for the maid. That is, however, what I would do. I do not know what any other person would do.

Also, many people are not booking thru TA's, but thru the internet. They do not have a TA to give them guidance or misguidance. They do have information provided by the cruiseline included in their documents. Of course, they may or may not read this.

Regardless, I do not think people are necessarally "cheap." We cannot know that. We cannot know another person's motivation or intention. We also cannot know if they are confused or unknowledgable. Only they know that.

I do not think we have the right to judge people for what they do or do not do. We are simply observing their behavior and trying to make some sense of it. We are also trying to help people who are asking for guidelines regarding a very subjective, personal issue. It's difficult.

Linda

[TedC]

Heyabbott,

Cruise directors on our last two HAL cruises told us that the $10pp per day is distributed thus: $3 each to waiter and cabin steward, the remaining $4 to "back of the scenes" folks.

We always leave the autotip in place and give extra to steward, waiter, asst. waiter, wine steward and anyone else who we thought deserved it. They DO NOT have to pool what they get if you leave the autotip in place. The DO have to pool what they get if you remove the autotip.

[heyabbott]

At $70 pp for the week for 1800 passengers, the support staff divides up $126,000. How many are in the pool? How many rooms does the steward have? Should people with larger rooms, the suite people tip more? More space to clean.

Is $20 on the first meeting with the steward sufficient to interest him in exemplary service with the implicit understanding that there's more at the end. Or is it better to leave something everyday?

[sail7seas]

heyabbot....


It has never been our habit to pre-tip a cabin or dining steward in order for him to provide us with good service. It is expected that we will have good service and if we do not, we would speak with him about it. If it still did not improve, we would speak to his superiors. Pre-tipping may be done by a few folks but not by very many IMO

We always tip the steward who brings our room service breakfast. It often is the same steward everyday but you cannot be sure you will see him again, so we tip at the time of service.

We tip the cabin steward/dining stewards over and above the amount automatically charged to our account with cash placed in an envelope on the last day/evening of the cruise. I don't know of anyone who tips their cabin/dining stewards daily.

[maddie404]

I worked as a waitress in FL. Starting pay was just $2.15 per hour. Some made less than that - they were considered "private contractors" and a gratutity (12%) was automatically included on the patron's bill. They were paid ONLY the 12% and what was left on the table (if anything) Most restaurant service employees do not make minimum hourly wage of $5.35/hr paid by their employer. They rely on their tips. And they have to declare a percentage of tip money to the IRS. Not sure how it works on ships.

[ryansmemom]

At $70 pp for the week for 1800 passengers, the support staff divides up $126,000. How many are in the pool? How many rooms does the steward have? Should people with larger rooms, the suite people tip more? More space to clean.

Is $20 on the first meeting with the steward sufficient to interest him in exemplary service with the implicit understanding that there's more at the end. Or is it better to leave something everyday?


heyabbot,

We have never pretipped anyone on any of our many cruises. We have always received excellent service. Both my husband and I feel that to pretip people would substantially alter the relationship we have with the stewards which has always been one of mutual respect.

I fear that a pretip may be misinterpreted as a bribe, especially by a people like the Indoneasan crew on HAL who have a strong work and pride in service ethic. This misintepretation may cause your good intention to backfire on you. Therefore I would advise against it.

In my experience, mutual respect and genuine friendliness go a lot further in insuring good service.

Linda

[RuthC]

Another approach to additional tipping is to pack thank you notecards.
At the end of the cruise a personal note of gratitude, with cash enclosed, is a nice gesture.

Also, I have seen lounge stewards get positively thrilled to know you mentioned them by name in the survey. Seems an honorable mention helps them get another contract and good assignments on the current one.

[ryansmemom]

I spend a lot of time in countries in which you really wouldn't even think of tipping anyone, other than in very exceptional circumstances.

Also, I live in a country where great big HEAVY HINTS (often in block capitals) are given when you need to tip because you wouldn't really think of doing so otherwise - eg in the type of restaurant where a tip is expected. In addition, there are certain sorts of tipping (eg bar staff) which are common in the US, but would be regarded as downright insulting if you tried it here.

If a cruise line says "tipping not required" and (wrongly) gives the impression that tipping is not expected, either, I don't think that you can necessarily fault passengers who act on that impression.


Please excuse my myopia regarding tipping practices in other countries. However, since, in my experience, the majority of passengers on HAL ships are US citizens I was basing my observations on US tipping customs. I also used the fact that HAL is a company based in the US to determine the appropriatness of this choice.

If I were to comment on tipping practices on board a non-US based company, I would of course need to use the practices of that country/culture as a guide.

Linda

[ryansmemom]

Another approach to additional tipping is to pack thank you notecards.
At the end of the cruise a personal note of gratitude, with cash enclosed, is a nice gesture.

Also, I have seen lounge stewards get positively thrilled to know you mentioned them by name in the survey. Seems an honorable mention helps them get another contract and good assignments on the current one.


Ruth

You hit the nail right on the head!! Perfect!! I agree wholeheartedly!!!

Linda :)

[Emmie]

Hello, all! What I would like to know is: if you are tipping a bit extra, what is considered reasonable? Would $10 to the steward on top of the autotip be insultingly low, or would it be appreciated?

I'm asking because my DH and I are on a budget, and we liked the idea of the tips being included. However, I wouldn't mind leaving something extra if possible, especially if the service is exceptional. I know we have to decide what we can afford, but it would be nice to hear what others do and kind of get a sense of what is "average."

By the way, the personalized thank you cards are a WONDERFUL idea! I'm planning to do that whatever happens!

Emmie

[Ritanita]

On our first HAL cruise years ago, tipping was expected (and amounts set in a memo to passengers)

Our last trip.. a 21 day cruise charged us a fee for services rendered, aka: tips.
I don't remember exactly how much per day was charged to our account... but I do remember that a service charge of $17 dollars was added to my "Coke Card" for tips.

Technically, the gratuity charge per day per passenger was to be spread out among all the people who served us in one way or another. This was to include not only those who served us directly, but also those who one would not ordinarily tip.

However, I found out through my conversations with the bartenders who waited on me, that they found no changes in their income due to this process!

Well, they may have been mistaken; but at the end of the cruise, I gave all the people who had served me well an envelope with an extra gratuity.

I had to thank them in some tangible way for their special service. The sports bar server who regularly brought me TWO Diet Cokes before I even asked, the waiter/server in the Ocean Bar who would bring me extra appetizers, the room steward who made up our room every time we left it!

I understand why a fixed gratuity might be fairer to the staff in general, but I regret that the old system of rewarding excellent service has been undermined by this new policy.

[RuthC]

On our first HAL cruise years ago, tipping was expected (and amounts set in a memo to passengers)
I'm very curious as to how long ago that was?


I first cruised HAL way back in '78, and the method then was "tipping not required". There was no suggested amount.
I did not sail HAL again until '92 when that was also the rule of thumb. Could HAL have changed---then changed back---during that period?
Or was your first cruise before '78?

[SANDY BEACH]

Emmie, You're not going to get too many exact $$ amounts on this thread. Most are quite private about the amount they tip over and above; however, I think anything you leave over and above would be much appreciated by the staff. Do what you can and your budget allows. I think it is very kind of you to consider extra for those that have served you well. Enjoy your cruise!!

[Pudgesmom]

I've been away from this thread for a few days, and I must respond to Sail's comment on the disembarkation talk. First of all, I have never attended any "talks" on any cruise I have taken. I hate meetings, and the last thing I'm interested in is silly songs or maudalin (sp) expressions of supposed sad good byes on my vacation. I cannot name any cruise director on any ship on which I have ever sailed.

Also, I am an avid reader. I read all the fine print in every cruise catalog. My travel brochures are totally dog-eared by the time I travel. I am positive about never reading any information other that the "tipping not required' phrase in the HAL literature.

How in the world would I guess that the cruise line was going to deliver heretofore unknown information about tipping at the "disembarkation" talk? In fact, I'm glad I never went, as I would have been very upset to find out on the last day of my cruise that my family of four owed another couple of hundred dollars to make good on the "tipping not required" cruise I was on.

Remember, I believe in tipping for good service.
Beth

[heyabbott]

If HAL didn't charge my account $140.00 for us for the week, I would have tipped that amount for cabin steward and dining room waiter. 10 a day for the steward and waiter respectively.
Obviously additonal tips for baggage porters and room service attendant.

I'm now assuming that additional tips for the steward and waiter are based upon service above and beyond the genrally acknowledged wonderful service usually given. Am I correct?

[jhannah]

That's the way I see it. HAL has defined what they think is proper for us to give for "excellent" service. We're then invited to go beyond for "exemplary" service.

From the HAL website:
Exceptional service is part of the Holland America cruise experience. Because you are our guest, it is our goal to make sure you receive the finest service possible. And we have made it easy for you to reward excellent service onboard.

A gratuity of $10 per guest per day for dining and stateroom services will be automatically added to your shipboard account on a daily basis. We are confident that you will find the service onboard exemplary and, should you wish to make adjustments, you may do so at the end of the cruise by contacting the front desk.

[sail7seas]

I've been away from this thread for a few days, and I must respond to Sail's comment on the disembarkation talk. First of all, I have never attended any "talks" on any cruise I have taken. I hate meetings, and the last thing I'm interested in is silly songs or maudalin (sp) expressions of supposed sad good byes on my vacation. I cannot name any cruise director on any ship on which I have ever sailed.

Also, I am an avid reader. I read all the fine print in every cruise catalog. My travel brochures are totally dog-eared by the time I travel. I am positive about never reading any information other that the "tipping not required' phrase in the HAL literature.

How in the world would I guess that the cruise line was going to deliver heretofore unknown information about tipping at the "disembarkation" talk? In fact, I'm glad I never went, as I would have been very upset to find out on the last day of my cruise that my family of four owed another couple of hundred dollars to make good on the "tipping not required" cruise I was on.

Remember, I believe in tipping for good service.
Beth



Do as you wish. If you do not choose to avail yourself of information which , by the way, is replayed repeatedly on the cabin televisions, that is your perogative. There is always a notice in the daily program of when the disembarkation talk is going to be held; there is always an announcement they request one person from each 'party' attend; there is always notice that the talk will be replayed on the televisions.

The information has always been available and the vast majority of people who have cruised HAL have heard it (some literally dozens of times). It matters not to me in the least if it does not interest you. Go/don't go. Listen/don't listen. Tip/don't tip. Whatever. Suit yourself.

[Pudgesmom]

No....I think not.


The Cruise Director always explained the policy in very clear langauge. It was not confusing in the least.... Unless one wished to use it as an 'excuse' to salve their conscience for 'stiffing the crew'.
JMHO, of course.


I am sure I am dumb but what is MSC? Thank you.

Sail, I do think you care whether people tip or not, my point that you fail to see is that HAL had a very ambiguous policy concerning it. Yes, I did watch the disembarcation talk on TV, and no, I don't remember anything about tipping. Besides, why wasn't it called the "disembarcation and secret tipping policy talk?" I feel embarrassed that I cruised HAL and did not tip appropriately. I do not like the new policy either, but I heartily disagree that HAL provided ANY information to new or newish cruisers on the old policy

Beth
Sorry if the quote didn't work, I'm still trying!

[flamingogal]

It never ceases to amaze me how bent out of shape intelligent people can get when their judgement/actions are questioned by total strangers.

Whether you tip or not, how much or how little is no one's business but your own. Advice is freely given on these boards, (and welcomed) but sometimes it comes with opinions that are not needed.

I leave the auto tip on, I also tip the cabin steward the second day of the cruise if I really like him. I may tip him throughout the cruise. I also tip the hamburger man, the omlet man, the good bartenders and the waiters/asst waiters. Heck, we've tipped the security guys! Tipping isn't rocket surgery, have a good time, leave a tip if you are inclined, if not, don't. :D

[Pudgesmom]

Flamingo,

My point was that HAL never explained that although tipping was not required, it was still expected.

Beth

[anngie]

That was my whole point in starting this thread to begin with. MSC had a cruise for travel agents and explained their tipping policy to them so that they could pass it along to their clients. They emphasized that their crew makes a very good wage so it is not necessary to tip them but if you still feel they go beyond the expected feel free to tip and they will give you envelopes to put it in.
I don't think all travel agents completely understood the policy that gratuities not required meant that it is still expected. We always use the same travel agent and she told us the first time that we ever sailed on HAL that tips were included. I have a feeling that lots of other people were told the same thing.

[sungoddess]

Gratuities have never been included on HAL, and are not included now. You have the option of removing the auto-tip if you wish. I agree, HAL's Tipping not Required policy was confusing, which is why they changed it.

[flamingogal]

Pudgesmom - I agree exactly! I had the same questions about tipping the first time I cruised HAL. Luckily I had good friends travelling with me who explained how the system worked. Since then, I have figured out my own way of tipping and I think my system was working pretty well until HAL decided to implement the standard tipping /service charge. I'm OK with the new system - less hassle, no bother, etc.

p.s. I've never been to a disembarkation talk yet and I don't plan on going in the future. There has to be something more interesting to do on a cruise ship than that!!!! :p

[dakrewser]

Tipping on a cruise ship is not the same as in a restaurant, although it is perhaps closer to the practice in a hotel - at least for the cabin steward.

For the dining room, it's more like the situation in a guest house, or perhaps a B&B (a large one).

As to the last night dining choice, I've never even considered what others might think of my choice.

I also never attend the debarkation talk, port & shopping talk or any other sermon from the crew. I will glance at the debark lecture on TV, but only to see if any procedure has changed. It rarely does.

As to bribing (what some euphemistically call "pre-tipping") there are two implications: 1) unless I pay up front, I won't get the best service; or 2) if I pay up front I'll get better service than the next guy. Both are repugnant thoughts.

The service on board the Oosterdam last week was, in fact, better than that which we experienced on the Volendam in the fall of '03 (our previous HAL cruise) - delightfully so. So much so that we went out of our way to ensure that there was both cash and envelopes available for a "bit extra" for our cabin & dining room attendants as well as those not included in the auto-tip (Pinnacle staff, Neptune concierges).

I've got to agree that HAL's previous policy ("No tipping required") was hopelessly ambivalent. On the one hand, you were told that there was no need to tip additional amounts. On the other hand, experienced cruisers would tell you that a gratuity was considered de riguer. But the cruise line wouldn't deign to recommend a typical amount. So you, poor passenger, were pulled both ways on this question. I also found the ritual of "the passing of the envelopes" on the last night in the DR to be both embarassing and stilted. At a restaurant ashore, would you wait for your waiter to return to your empty table so you could personnally slip him a few bucks and shake his hand? I think not - especially as the table had already been cleared and the asst. steward was chomping at the bit to lay the table for breakfast! We solved the problem on this cruise by not going to the DR on the last night. Or the night before, either. We tipped the DR staff on the third-to-last night (our last in the DR) much to their surprise and enjoyment.

-dave

[Santa Fe Jim]

Several people in this thread (and on previous tipping threads) have said that they would prefer HAL acknowledge the current tipping program as a "service charge". My question: if it becomes a mandatory service charge (as is coming on NCL I think), then HAL has to declare it as income, whereas if they call it a tip, it would not be corporate income? If so, seems they have a vested interest in keeping the "tipping" system (which I do not mind).

SFJ

[jhannah]

You are correct. I'm not a tax attorney, but payroll taxes (the employer's share of FICA and Workers' Comp and unemployment insurance) are based an a percentage of payroll. So to put that amount into payroll per se would cost the cruise line more in taxes.

[Globaliser]

However, since, in my experience, the majority of passengers on HAL ships are US citizens I was basing my observations on US tipping customs. I also used the fact that HAL is a company based in the US to determine the appropriatness of this choice.

If I were to comment on tipping practices on board a non-US based company, I would of course need to use the practices of that country/culture as a guide.The point, if it wasn't clear enough, was this:- You suggested that cruisers would automatically know to transfer their US land-based tipping habits and practices to a HAL ship. Now HAL ships are all foreign (from a US point of view) as are all or virtually all of the staff whom one would be tipping. So when HAL then gives you ambiguous and confusing advice about tipping which is intended to sound different from normal US tipping practice, isn't it off-beam to criticise people who interpret this as a departure from US land-based tipping?

[geoherb]

We looked at taking a cruise on HAL back in the early 1990s. At that time, our TA told us the "tipping not required" policy meant that we could consider the cost difference between HAL and other cruise lines and basically add the amount we'd give in tips on the other cruise lines to the price of their cruises to see if HAL's price was comparable. My mother and stepfather went on a couple of HAL cruises and did not tip since they interpreted the "tipping not required" policy to mean what it said.

[ryansmemom]

The point, if it wasn't clear enough, was this:- You suggested that cruisers would automatically know to transfer their US land-based tipping habits and practices to a HAL ship. Now HAL ships are all foreign (from a US point of view) as are all or virtually all of the staff whom one would be tipping. So when HAL then gives you ambiguous and confusing advice about tipping which is intended to sound different from normal US tipping practice, isn't it off-beam to criticise people who interpret this as a departure from US land-based tipping?

It was not my intention to criticise anyone. I was merely attempting to attempt to offer an explaination of certain behavior patterns. My husband and do things the way we do simply because it feels right to us and it makes sense to us. It also feels good to us. I expect that others do the same.

I am sorry if you feel judged, I assure you there was no judgement intended. I am a student of human behavior, as such I am interested in understanding. I do not want to be judged and do not judge others.

Linda