Ryndam Sick

[GAJE]

I got a call from our TA late this afternoon who wanted to tell us we had gotten letter from HAL about a large number of sick passengers on the Ryndam. Because of this situation, the ship is arriving back in Ft. Laudedale earlier than scheduled Sat., 1/29 to undergo an extensive sanitizing. For that reason, there will be no early embarkation and that full refunds will be given to those passengers sailing on the 29th (That includes us!!) who want one. We are not going to cancel, but what are these extensive sanitizing measures? Anyone care to share a norwalk experience and offer any advice? We certainly are going to carry all kinds of hand sanitizers!!

As always, any help will be appreciated.
Betty

[GAJE]

Ooops, I meant the norovirus, not "norwalk". Excuse my ignorance.
Betty

[Krazy Kruizers]

So sorry to hear that another ship is experiencing the Norvo virus.

We have been on the Amsterdam (2002 - big outbreak), Ryndam (2003), and a couple of other ships when the Norvo hit.

We just keep washing our hand as much as possible and don't touch handrails, etc. I even used kleenex to touch the elevator buttons and then immidiately threw away the kleenex - wouldn't use the same one twice.

When the big outbreak happened on the Amsterdam and the Ryndam there weren't any sanitizers - so we really had to be careful. On the Amsterdam a woman sitting at our table got the virus - she stayed in the cabin only 24 hours - her husband didn't stay in at all. We kept praying that we wouldn't get sick.

So far we haven't gotten the virus - hope our luck holds out.

[Cauvet]

After the first Norwalk scare back in 2002, we were on the Statendam for a Hawaii cruise. No rolls were left on the table, butter was in wrapped patties, in the Lido, the staff handled your tray and you pointed to what you wanted, paper towels in the bathrooms. The last time I was on the O, they had hand santizers as you entered the ship and one at the beginning of each buffet line. I am a nurse and know germs. I have seen several of my nursing facilities have epidemics of intestinal flus the last couple of weeks. It boils down to this: HANDWASHING!!!! Everytime you touch something in the ship like the rails, buttons on the elevators, chairs, etc., remember, someone else touched these surfaces and may have been ill. Then you touch, then you touch something else, etc., etc., etc. That's how an epidemic starts and grows. So, carry Purell or other hand cleaner in your pocket and wash your hands carefully after every bathroom use. We teach the staff to wash their hands for at least 10 seconds with soap and water. It is the friction that kills the germs. The hand cleaners kill 99% of the bacteria--that is good!

Sorry to hear about the Ryndam--we are scheduled fo 3/6. By sanitizing the ship, they clean it top to bottom with disinfectants to try to kill any residual germs.

[kryos]

We are not going to cancel, but what are these extensive sanitizing measures?

I think it's a procedure called "fogging?" They were going to do that on the Sun Princess at the end of our 1-8 to 1-18 cruise. From what I understand, it's a major cleaning that requires no passengers be on the enclosed decks. Even if you're doing a b2b, you have to either stay off the ship during the process, or stay only out on the open decks.

From the name of the procedure, I would imagine it involves spraying some sort of sanitizing mist through the ventilation system. I know that no one was going to be allowed to embark for the 1-18 cruise until this process had been completed. That's why they were so quick getting us off the ship that morning ... so they could get the decks cleared and this "fogging" done, and still get the next cruise sailing away at the appointed time.

Hope this helps ...

Blue skies ...

--rita

[sail7seas]

I got a call from our TA late this afternoon who wanted to tell us we had gotten letter from HAL about a large number of sick passengers on the Ryndam. Because of this situation, the ship is arriving back in Ft. Laudedale earlier than scheduled Sat., 1/29 to undergo an extensive sanitizing. For that reason, there will be no early embarkation and that full refunds will be given to those passengers sailing on the 29th (That includes us!!) who want one. We are not going to cancel, but what are these extensive sanitizing measures? Anyone care to share a norwalk experience and offer any advice? We certainly are going to carry all kinds of hand sanitizers!!

As always, any help will be appreciated.
Betty


We stayed over in Tampa the day we disembarked Veendam. During the afternoon, we walked over to the terminal and saw them distributing a letter advising arriving pax that there had been an outbreak of gastro-intestinal illness on the previous cruise (our cruise).
They offered, in this letter, a full refund to any pax who wished to cancel their cruise and said they would assist anyone who needed help arranging air/transportation home.

We are very cautious always/everywhere about clean hands (not just on ships). It is a way of life with me that even if I use oil and vinegar cruets in a restaurant, I would never handle the bottle with my bare hand. I use a paper napkin or tissue. I always assume that someone ahead of me who used it may not have had clean hands and who knows how often that cruet is washed by the restaurant.

I never touch the faucets with my clean hands in a lavatory after washing my hands. I shut if off with a paper towel or even my elbow if necessary.

You get the point.....I am always VERY careful.

No matter how careful you are about pushing elevator button with a pen (Yes, I do that); not touching the handrail on a moving ship when there is a lot of 'motion of the ocean', about wiping your hands with sanitizer immediately after using a slot machine and washing them ASAP.......

There are no guarantees you will not catch it. It is highly contagious.

The odds are strongly in your favor if you take all precautions you will not catch it but you must understand you are at risk. For the vast majority of people, if they contract it, they are ill for about 24 hours and then start to feel better. For someone with some other illness or frailty, it may take longer to recover. One is contagious for 72 hours from the onset of symptoms and must be isolated for the period of time as to not spread it around.

[jhannah]

Another place to be prepared is in the dining room. We carry hand sanitizer with us to use after we've handled the menus. Few people think about this, but it seems as important as the other steps.

I use my knuckle to press elevator buttons, as I can't ever remember placing my knuckle in my mouth. ;)

[GAJE]

As always, your advice was wonderful and appreciated!!!!!!!!!!!!! Wish us luck (and a great cruise)!!!
Betty

[sail7seas]

....and then you place your hand on the arm of the chair. Or you pull your chair closer to the table by reaching under the seat to grasp it in the normal manner.....or you admire the pretty bud vase on the table and touch it......


and on and on and on.

One thinks they can avoid it by being oh so careful.......for the most part, many people, indeed most people probably will. But Not All.

Good luck and have a Wonderful Cruise. The odds are strongly in your favor for staying well.

[Twaincruisers]

In Dec '02 my wife and I were on the Zaandam and learned from our tablemates that the ship had the virus. Everything changed...we were served bread at the table, we could no longer serve ourselves at the buffet...and lots more cleaning became evident. People who became sick were confined to their cabins and sent ashore at the next port. All the cleaning and precautions you can think of may not stop the spread...but it's worth a try. Good luck to all cruisers facing these circumstances...wish we had a cruise planned.

[RevNeal]

Thank you, S7S. I'm sorry you got ill, but you are nevertheless right ... the odds are long that any given person will not catch the virus. An epedemic outbreak is 8% ... but even if twice that gets sick, 84% of the passengers will not get sick. That's shallow comfort for those who catch it, but it should put some perspective on the situation.

I always pray for the health of those who cruise ... that all be careful, all be safe, and that any who get ill will get, quickly, well. Amen.

[anniecat]

well, we are on the Ryndam 2-14...I always use hand cleaner/papertowels etc. But still, it makes me nervous...I worry enough about the water in Mexico!
But, we will be extra vigilent..and bring on clorox wipes to clean the cabin and hope for the best. :eek:

[Kami's pal]

If you read the information on Cruise Critic home page or do a search using Norwalk, you'll understand that this is very difficult to eradicate. In fact, there are several outbreaks in schools, hospitals, and other "closed" environments everywhere.

Since it's a virus, it's very much more difficult to kill.

ironically, the crew or staff can be the ones who transmit it even while they clean. Unless they use disposable gloves and change them after cleaning every cabin, the cabin stewards are carrying it from room to room. They move the books, ice buckets, linens, clothes, papers and dishes without covering their hands and unless supervised, without washing very carefully between cabins. Just opening the doors of a cabin of one sick person, then going into another's will transport the virus.

Only very vigourous scrubbing with a very strong chlorine solution will kill the virus. Of course, one can't use chorine on the soft furnishings, so steam cleaning of rugs, curtains, blankets, etc. is necessary. That's why a ship has to be taken out of commission for a week to break the cycle. Few are willing to have that.

But there is some indication that taking peptobismal tablets prophylactically starting 2 days before the trip and continuing 2 days after the trip does help.

[anniecat]

thanks for the info...I'm going to see if the infection control officer at my hospital can add any insight. I'll bring my own gloves, use hand sanitizers, wipes and hope for the best.

[SandiSails]

The sickness on the Ryndam is not Norwalk,just the flue..that is what happens when people get on a ship although they are sick. I guess they test for the Norwalk and can diagnose whether thats what it is.Just like a bug can spread at school ,at work or any place in close quarters...a bug can spread on a ship.

[sail7seas]

The sickness on the Ryndam is not Norwalk,just the flue..that is what happens when people get on a ship although they are sick. I guess they test for the Norwalk and can diagnose whether thats what it is.Just like a bug can spread at school ,at work or any place in close quarters...a bug can spread on a ship.



Just The FLU!!! More people die each year from Influenza than will ever die from Noro Viruses.

If I were to worry about catching one or the other, I'd be more concerned about catching Flu....by far!

[wander]

What we are talking about here may be the flu (as the term is commonly used), but it is not the FLU, the type we get shots for. Oh, some on a ship may have the FLU, but the outbreaks many talk talk about on this board are different. Now, if one is sick and days on a ship spoiled - this is small comfort. However, the FLU that so many die of in a average year involves many days in bed with severe chill, fever, upset stomach and GI problems. This is a serious illness, particularly for the young, elderly and for folks with compromised immune systems.

[sail7seas]

That is correct. Flu is far more serious than Noro (Norwalk) virus.

[anngie]

Here in Savannah they call it Intestinal Flu.

[SandiSails]

thanks Wanderer...that is what I meant..not "THE FLU"but the flu...that was my first time posting..I guess I had beter be more careful...my daughter called me this mornng and had been on the boat which is why I thought I would share about it not being a Norwalk type virus...

[pilgrimduke]

I was on the Ryndam for a New Year's cruise and had to use the public restrooms for three days because of toilet problems. While doing so, I saw a staff member who did not wash his hands after using the facilities. I was pretty surprised at what I saw (or didn't see) and couldn't determine who exactly the person was since I was otherwise occupied. I did point out this training need for the staff in general, but I don't know if anything was done.

[kruzkeen]

The sickness on the Ryndam is not Norwalk,just the flue..that is what happens when people get on a ship although they are sick. I guess they test for the Norwalk and can diagnose whether thats what it is.Just like a bug can spread at school ,at work or any place in close quarters...a bug can spread on a ship.

This entry in the News section of CC reports that it was Norwalk. If this is incorrect they should retract. http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=1246

[tankerjo2]

Both my wife and myself developed one heck of something the last 2 days while on our 12/11 Ryndam cruise leaving us with the most awful cough and other cold like symptoms which took nearly 6 weeks to clear up. I'm not pointing any fingers at the ship as we may have well brought it with us on our plane ride as well as our stay in San Diego prior to the cruise.

One thing we noticed was a number of people coughing and hacking while on the cruise which included an older woman who while going through the line in the Lido was coughing as she leaned over and inspected the salad bar before helping herself. Course this can happen anywhere when exposed to buffet type service. Should have said something at the time to someone in food service but.....

[Himself]

People spend a lot of money for a cruise and get sick a few days before sailing and then they get on a ship sick and it spreads. Too bad. Hope they kill all the germs on the RYNDAM. I heard the VEENDAM has had to same problem. To good health to all.

HIMSELF

[shipcafe]

Saw just one version of the Veendam's norovirus exposé this morning on Northwest Cable News today. The exaggeration was beyond comprehension in both Tampa and the PNW. I guess the media is desperate for stories. One person said it was a "trip from hell" and another said that it was barely noticeable (!?)...

[Santa Fe Jim]

What we are talking about here may be the flu (as the term is commonly used), but it is not the FLU, the type we get shots for. Oh, some on a ship may have the FLU, but the outbreaks many talk talk about on this board are different. Now, if one is sick and days on a ship spoiled - this is small comfort. However, the FLU that so many die of in a average year involves many days in bed with severe chill, fever, upset stomach and GI problems. This is a serious illness, particularly for the young, elderly and for folks with compromised immune systems.

Close, but not quite correct. The "stomach flu" (aka stomach virus, intestinal flu, stomach bug) includes various types of viral and bacterial illnesses, one of which is a norovirus, like the Norwalk virus. "Food Poisoning" in some instances has symptoms like "stomach flu".

What we get flu shots for is influenza(e). This flu is a respiratory illness -- it would not usually involve an upset stomach or GI problems. As you say it is sometimes fatal for certain groups, but from respiratory problems, not GI.

I had a severe case of the flu this year despite getting the vaccine. Since it presented four days after departing the Zaandam, I apparently acquired it in the Orlando airport or on the flights home. I was obviously rested and in good health (and had the vaccine), but the case was severe and lasted 3 weeks, with a lingering slight cough for a couple more weeks.

SFJ

[OCruisers]

Saw just one version of the Veendam's norovirus exposé this morning on Northwest Cable News today. The exaggeration was beyond comprehension in both Tampa and the PNW. I guess the media is desperate for stories. One person said it was a "trip from hell" and another said that it was barely noticeable (!?)...

We were on the V-DAM 1/15 Sailing!

Can't understand WHY anyone would said that it was "barely noticeable"! :confused:

When people you normally saw were missing for a day or so, you knew they had the virus!

At the Q&A Session/Report from CDC at the time 180 people had reported to the infirmary and 240 had stated on their CDC Questionnaire they had been infected with the virus. Later that evening, the nurse told us there had been another as they called it "wave" of the virus (explaining why it took 2 hours to return our call) so there were MANY more sick to ADD to these numbers!

Also at the Q&A the Captain very honestly answered that he did NOT know how many people (pax,staff,crew) were ill because people could have the virus and show no symptoms (per CDC) ... and some might not report they were sick.

LOTS OF PEOPLE were infected. The Captain did the right thing with his decision to take us back to Tampa as quickly as possible!

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[sail7seas]

Captain Schoonderbeek and Hotel Manager Nick Burger could not have been more honest with us. They did everything possible. They immediately took action at the first sign there was illness. There is no way either of those gentlemen could have done more to take care of all of us.....crew and passengers alike. It is the fine officers like these gentlemen that make the ships of HAL what they are. They and their crews are why we continue to sail HAL over and over again.

[rottenbinkle]

thanks Wanderer...that is what I meant..not "THE FLU"but the flu...that was my first time posting..I guess I had beter be more careful...my daughter called me this mornng and had been on the boat which is why I thought I would share about it not being a Norwalk type virus...

i was on the ryndam 1-13 to 1/28-29 sailing. actually, it was a norwalk type virus. in fact, the name that even the captain used to call it was the "nlv" or the "norwalk-like virus". so yes, it is a flu, but it is also quite similar to norwalk.

[jancookz]

Just got back from that Panama Canal cruise. It was a serious flu virus that made well over half the passengers sick. We would not sail on the Ryndam again or, perhaps, even HAL, because of how the passengers were treated during this mess. We were all "dumped" in Florida one day early (Jamaica even denied us entry because so many were sick), with absolutely no option for a hotel room for the night. Passengers, like us, who booked our own air, were given 20 minutes of phone time from the ship to change/re-book any reservations we had. The phone lines were jammed and 20 minutes simply wasn't enough time for most. The best news about this cruise is that we didn't get sick. We washed our hands 20-30x every day and worked hard not to touch our faces with our hands, as well as staying away from sick people. Plumbing didn't work right in lower levels of the ship, according to many we talked with about the ship. This doesn't help, when you're sick and have to smell bad odors throughout that entire level of the ship. Food was terrible in the Lido and mediocre in the dining room, except for the evening rolls, the soups and the salads. Entertainment was fair--some bad acts and some good. I'm afraid that the "old days" of cruising are gone, with the great food, service and entertainment. We have been cruising since 1981 and have seen these changes come about, but we will continue to cruise, though will be more selective about the lines we use. Our previous good experiences on HAL led us to believe this cruise would be the same. Sorry, but it was a dud.

[2rg]

I suspect the illness your refering to is a form of flu thats been going around loaclly for the last couple of years. My wife and I had it last winter and it was brutal. Laid us both up for over a week and took a couple months to get over it. We both got sick with-in a day of each other. In the first week I had 3 meals, 2 of which were soup and the other was a slice of dry toast.

[sail7seas]

Just got back from that Panama Canal cruise. It was a serious flu virus that made well over half the passengers sick. We would not sail on the Ryndam again or, perhaps, even HAL, because of how the passengers were treated during this mess. We were all "dumped" in Florida one day early (Jamaica even denied us entry because so many were sick), with absolutely no option for a hotel room for the night. Passengers, like us, who booked our own air, were given 20 minutes of phone time from the ship to change/re-book any reservations we had. The phone lines were jammed and 20 minutes simply wasn't enough time for most. The best news about this cruise is that we didn't get sick. We washed our hands 20-30x every day and worked hard not to touch our faces with our hands, as well as staying away from sick people. Plumbing didn't work right in lower levels of the ship, according to many we talked with about the ship. This doesn't help, when you're sick and have to smell bad odors throughout that entire level of the ship. Food was terrible in the Lido and mediocre in the dining room, except for the evening rolls, the soups and the salads. Entertainment was fair--some bad acts and some good. I'm afraid that the "old days" of cruising are gone, with the great food, service and entertainment. We have been cruising since 1981 and have seen these changes come about, but we will continue to cruise, though will be more selective about the lines we use. Our previous good experiences on HAL led us to believe this cruise would be the same. Sorry, but it was a dud.




What were the symptons of this 'flu'?

Was it vomiting and diahrea? Fever? Any upper respitory illness? Coughing? Body Aches? I am really curious which symtons were the most common about which you heard?

What did all of these very ill pax do when 'dumped' in Florida. If they were in sickbeds, how did they transfer ship to shore? Were hotel rooms arranged?

Please share whatever info you have.

I am very happy you remained healthy but sorry your cruise was disappointing.

Thank you.

[jancookz]

All of the symptoms you mentioned were present for the NLV. But the cough and cold virus was going around, too, and that was a different virus. Most of the people we talked with who got sick had vomiting, diahrea, fever and body aches--typically, it lasted 24-48 hours. But one 89 year old woman, who was traveling with her 92 year old husband, was sick for 5 days, and her husband never caught the bug. And they're going back to San Diego on the same ship as a turn-around! At least they were being put up in a hotel for that night.
Otherwise, only international passengers were to be put up in hotels. Absolutely everyone else had to rebook their flights, if they had made their own air arrangements, unless it was impossible for some reason. Then, supposedly, the HAL agents would "assist them with their travel plans". This is what we were told by Customer Service on the ship. The priority was to get all the passengers off the ship so that they could sanitize it for the next cruise.
When we disembarked, we went directly to the airport, so we don't know what happened to the really sick passengers. Personally, I believe it would have been cheaper, easier and better for PR if HAL had put everyone in hotels and let them keep their original reservations for Saturday. I felt we were treated like second-class citizens. We simply had no choice in the matter. Don't know what happened to anyone who decided to wait to let the HAL personnel help them after they disembarked. It was a mess.
Janet

[sail7seas]

Thanks for the info, jancookz.


Not a good situation IMO

[cru1s1ng]

Thanks for the info and good advice. Looks like I'll be adding handwipes to my packing list.