Veendam Returns to Tampa Early; Big Parade on Sat

[JDee]

Evening TV news had a story showing Veendam returning to Tampa a day early for cleanup prior to arrival of new pax. Tried to find a link for further details, but couldn't come up with anything.

As for that parade, it is the Gasparilla parade, an annual affair. Tampa's Mardi Gra (sp?). Anyhow, there will be lots street closures and detours making navigation a little difficult for those unfamiliar with Tampa Streets. Will also make the trip from your hotel/motel/airport a little longer but shouldn't be a problem....All the cabbies should know the drill....This part of the msg is probably too late for many of those scheduled to depart Veendam tomorrow. (A day late & a buck shorthttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Happy cruising....

[Charlie2na]

A passenger told me she read in a paper at St THOMAS that veendam was denied access to tortola due to heavy outbreak of norwalk virus

[DFD1]

Tortola finally cleared her for non-infected passengers to come ashore, but only after they inspected the on-board quarantine situation and found it acceptable.

[sail7seas]

Tortola finally cleared her for non-infected passengers to come ashore, but only after they inspected the on-board quarantine situation and found it acceptable.


That's very interesting. Thank you for sharing it. Do you know someone aboard who informed you?

[Cracker Ken]

I just picked up my wife and mother-in-law at the port this evening after they got off of the Veendam. This was a 14 day cruise, and the 12 day cruise before there's (the one Sail7Seas was on) had about 60 passengers with Norwalk. On this most recent cruise, about 3 days into the cruise, people started coming down with it, bad. 240 people (passengers and crew) came down with it, including the CD. The CDC came on board last Monday and started their surveys, getting "samples" from sick passengers, etc. The ship was on virus prevention protocols for almost the entire cruise. They came into Tampa early because they were turned away from Grand Cayman, and due to the fact that they need extra time tomorrow to clean the ship. The passengers bound for Tampa (the locals) were allowed off tonight. The rest are being put off the ship at 6:00AM tomorrow morning. The next passengers will not be allowed on until 3:00PM tomorrow. They will be sanitizing the ship top to bottom tomorrow, including sending all linens (bed spreads, sheets, towels, etc) off of the ship for a thorough cleaning. Things were so bad, that they had people working in the lido who don't normally work in there, just to have enough people to serve in the buffet. Despite the rule that the servers had to give food to you (due to the protocols), there were people getting impatient and reaching for food themselves. People were also suspected of violating the quarantine rules too. Overall, the Norwalk problem made for a miserable week on the Veendam.

When I was down there at the port tonight, the local news helicopter was flying around the ship, and the roadside was lined with "live trucks" from all the local TV stations. They had them on the news later too, with eveyone pitching a fit about HAL and the Norwalk.

The Norwalk problem is why they ended up in port a day early. I'm kind of glad they came in tonight, since the Gasparilla activity would have made driving in the area miserable tomorrow morning. The traffic down there was a terrible mess tonight too, since there was some big function at the Ice Palace.

[localady]

Thanks for the update Ken. Did your DW and her mom remain healthy through the ordeal?:o

[JDee]

In additiion to what Ken has posted, will try to give you some info from the local TV news @ 11:00pm without repeating what he said....

1. Those passengers scheduled for tomorrow's cruise who desire not to go, will be given a full refund. Those who choose to sail, will get a 150 percent voucher good for future cruise.

2. Returnees were offered a few hundred dollars for their inconvenience. Many pax interviewed said that it was rather chincy. Not sure if those were the sick pax, or those not...

3. Some sick pax said they were quarantined from 4 to 6 days. (for those 6 days, appears to me, they must have boarded sick.) All described it as the cruise from H**L. Many said ship should not have sailed and should not sail tomorrow, claiming not possible to clean up adequately over night....

4. No mention of Grand Cayman situation. Did mention Tortola as per posting of FD1, those not sick could come ashore.

Here's a link for todays return to port: www.tampabays10.com (http://www.tampabays10.com/) There is a video that I could not get, maybe others can. I don't think it has the pax returning interviews, but I could be wrong. (hey, I was wrong oncehttp://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif)

Anyway, tomorrow should be some stuff you can get. Here are some links to local papers: www.stpetetimes.com (http://www.stpetetimes.com/) and www.tampatribune.com (http://www.tampatribune.com/)

(Hope this darn thing transmits - lost the last posting)....

[Cracker Ken]

My wife and mother-in-law didn't get sick. Since they had an inside cabin, they received a $125.00 refund. Another option, was 150% of that $125 against a future cruise within the next year. They took the $125.00. It was explained that the $125 was basically to make up for missing Grand Cayman. The suite passengers got $250, or 150% of that amount against a future cruise.

It's interesting to see that those getting on the ship tomorrow will get the same thing as those who got off of the "Cruise from H#$!" tonight. Those leaving tomorrow may actually have a nice cruise, and they are getting the same $$$ as those who went through the ordeal for the last 2 weeks. This is strange. Maybe those who said it was chincy were right, I don't know.

We all have to remember that the passengers on the Veendam got the virus from each other, not the ship. It's not necessarily something on the ship that gave people the virus (more than likely, it wasn't). They could steam clean that ship from top to bottom, dip the whole ship in alcohol for that matter, and then have someone get on the ship with the virus tomorrow. Then, they would be right back where they were today,with a whole bunch of sick people on the next cruise, and it would be no fault of HAL.

Such is life.

Ken

[gizmo]

The info about Tortola can be found in a number of Caribbean news articles on the web.

BVI health officials hold cruise ship in Tortola
Friday, January 21, 2005

ROADTOWN, BVI: Health Officials on Tortola in the British Virgin Islands earlier this week prevented the cruise liner Veendam from docking at the island's port, after receiving information alleging that a number of passengers and crew members were believed to be carriers of the Norwalk virus.

Health personnel took all the step required to prevent transmission of the virus and that it was safe for the unaffected passengers to come ashore, a BVI Health Department statement said.

The BVI Public Relations Officer Diane Drayton said that officials "found that quarantine measures on board were satisfactory," and they also "ensured that proper procedures were being adhered to thus ensuring it was safe for unaffected passengers to disembark."

[Krazy Kruizers]

The Veendam has been all over the local TV stations this morning up here in Pittsburgh.

When the Norvo broke out on the Amsterdam a couple of years ago, we also weren't allowed to touch the food in the Lido. And they had crew members trying to help out. The cruise director put on a chef's hat and ladled out soup. The bar tenders also had to help serve passengers. If you wanted peanuts with your cocktails in one of the lounges you had to ask for them and they would bring you a few. If you didn't finish what they gave you, the rest was thrown out.

I don't see how they are going to get the ship cleaned in a few hours. With passengers getting off the ship at 6 AM and the others not getting on till 3 - that's not enough time.

Also, someone mentioned that they are going to send out all the sheets, duvets, towels, etc. to be washed and cleaned. What company is going to be able to do all that work in a few hours?

[sail7seas]

I'm confused about the statement that the ship missed Grand Cayman as they would not let pax go ashore.


Earlier we read here about sick pax being forced off the ship at Grand Cayman and they were left there.

Which was it?

As to compensation.........

We never asked for anything nor did we receive anything. I have no idea (how much) How Many folks got any compensation from our cruise. I am VERY sure there was a huge bunch of "GIMMME' type folks. Give me this; give me that....there are always some who only know one word when cruising and that is 'compensation'.

Even before I became ill at the very end of our cruise, I was totally not enjoying going to Lido. We never go for our full breakfast there but we ALWAYS go for lunch. It was VERY hard to enjoy it; indeed, it was near impossible to even get decently served anything.

It is true they had crew people who never get involved with food service behind the Lido Line. One of the girl dancers was serving fruit in the breakfast line....Her method and approach to passengers was disgusting and I had to leave without getting fruit. Even if you remain healthy during a cruise when Norwalk is present, your entire experience is very much negatively affected IMO

[Cracker Ken]

There is absolutely no doubt - The ship did not stop in Grand Cayman. Missing that port helped them get to Tampa quicker. My wife was of the impression (from things said on board) that the Grand Cayman authorities didn't want the problem on their island. Those without the disease were allowed off in Tortola.

Regarding cleaning all of the linens somewhere off the ship - I was wondering if they have enough time to do that, however that's what the passengers (including my wife) were told. Whether they actually do it or not, I don't know. Maybe they have connections with an industrial type laundry service who can do this.

There was at least one sick couple that violated quarantine and went for a shore excursion (I don't know how they managed that, what with their personal needs and such...). People were violating protocols all over the place, like reaching into places they shouldn't have, getting rolls, packets of sweeteners, etc, etc. It's no wonder the problem kept spreading.

We have some papers they passed out on the ship. I'd be glad to relay what they say if anyone is curious.

Ken

[JDee]

KK: The TV newscast indicated that all the bedding that was removed would be returned to the VEENDAM on next week's scheduled return. Also said coimpletel new bedding would be provided in all cabins. Guess must have some inventory stashed someplace...With all that going on, ship's laundry most likely would be overburdened....Maybe flew that stuff in after it became evident how large the problem was....

S7S: As Ken's prior post stated, the amount of $125.00 or $250.00 were rather automatic, as the newscast was rather brief and didn't go into too much detail. Only during some of the pax interviews was there a mention of inadequate compensation. One couple in particular, the ones who claimed they spent 6 days quarantined, were especially vocal....Many others who were not infected were just glad the cruise was over, not upset, just that it didn't feel the normal cruise experience (guess we can relate to that). Also believe one would have to consider the confines of a non-suite or non-verandah accomodattions for 6 days. I would be crawling up the wall on day 2, and really don't understand why they were confined for 6 days. Would have thought after about 72 hrs, they would be free to roam.

The other question I had was on the amount of compensation to be given to the new pax who choose to make the cruise. Somehow I think the numbers are wrong--why make an offer of giving the cruise, and then a voucher for 150 percent if you do?? Don't make sense to me, maybe got the numbers wrong. 50 percent would sound more like it.... Of course those that choose not to cruise only get they money back, and must eat the air fare unless booked with HAL. Don't think even if they had insurance, it would cover that kind of loss, as the ship did sail....

Will be interesting to view posts of the returnees....

[sail7seas]

Thanks for both those posts. They are both very helpful.

I don't question for a moment about Grand Cayman not allowing the ship in. I am sure what you say is so.

What I am reacting to is that someone during the last two days (here on this board) wrote that sick passengers were put ashore in Grand Cayman....forced to leave the ship. Obviously if the ship did not stop at Grand Cayman, that could not have happened. I haven't bothered to look back through the threads to find that post as I don't know what thread it was in. If I find it later, I will bump it forward. Does anyone else remember it?

I know it bothered me because I thought it very unfair to do to a 'cooperative passenger' who agreed to the quarantine and was not out and about. If some, as was pointed out above, violated the quarantine then, by all means, I support their being forced off the ship.

I also cannot fathom why someone was forced into a SIX DAY quarantine. That is ridicuously excessive. I KNOW for sure that when we were aboard the ship, the official announcement was that people are contagious for 72 hours. Why would they be forced to be in their cabin six days UNLESS.........


Did one occupant of that cabin become ill with Noro Virus on Day 1.....all occupants of that cabin are now quarantined for 72 hours. On Day Three, the other occupant of the cabin became ill and now they had to begin ANOTHER 72 day quarantine......Total quarantine is now Six Days.

[ocngypz]

Folks who have been ill with norovirus can shed the virus up to two weeks following abatement of symptoms.

I read that on the CDC website.

There have been outbreaks this winter in schools, hospitals and nursing homes.... yet the media love to play up the outbreaks on cruiseships.

I've been hit with it in the past, though not on a cruiseship. All it took was 24 hours in a house with someone suffering from it. Most of the time we were in different rooms. Not 24 hours after I returned home, you guessed it....my immediate family members were struck. All I can say is thank goodness we had 4 bathrooms in the house!

[~Nereus~]

We just got off the Veendam this morning... and since we did not get sick we were still very pleased with the trip... and are still booked to do the same 14 day cruise in November.

Lots of people were complaining about the cruise but most seemed to understand the situation.

Cool weather followed us throughout the voyage but anything is preferable to the cold temperatures and snow back home..

We arrived at the terminal at 11 am two weeks ago and were warned that the NLV was on board. The numbers of infected people was declining and halfway through the voyage seemed to be over.. A new infection struck two days later and the CDC joined us in Curacao... This stop was almost a no-go with officials there delaying clearance for over an hour... Many of us thought we would not be allowed ashore...

Aruba was fine but we did not go to Grand Cayman. We generally like ship-board life and stops are incidental to us. There were many activites on board, entertainment was generally very good, the food was fine

The Veendam was a clean, beautiful ship that we enjoyed.

The sanitizing today involves removing all paper & linen from the cabins... sending all cloth materials onshore to be sanitized.. The rooms were then to be sprayed by Virox, steam cleaned, fogged, and all surfaces rubbed down by hand...with chlorine cleanser
The ship wil be clean and one sick passenger will come on board and restart the entire cycle...

I don't think that the Veendam will leave for several days..

[sail7seas]

Thank you C2C for your first hand information.

Do you know if ill passengers were forced off the ship and left in ports along the way?

I agree that Veendam is a beautiful ship in very good shape. We, too, had very good food aboard and excellent dining room and cabin service. We had terrific stewards.

I would absolutely sail her again despite my having gotten ill aboard.

[JDee]

S7S:

Believe the thread you ask about in on page 2 "Veendam Sick", posting No. 36.

[Katemate]

We are also on the Nov.26th cruise. Sure hope all will be ship shape for then.

We have made many cruises on HAL and have yet to become sick.Keeping fingers crossed for Nov.

C U then.

Kathy & Buck

[sail7seas]

Thank you,J Dee. I knew I remembered reading it here. Apparently, the poster was mistaken or misinformed.



This is the post: (copy and pasted it)



Quote:
Originally Posted by RMSeadog
...They are onboard Veedam in the Caribbean. The ship is sending many guests home form Grand Cayman...



Rick




This response posted by Ryndam 2002


HAL (and other lines) are making a big mistake in kicking sick passengers off their ships in third-world countries. I think it is very shabby treatment of their PAX. These unlucky ones then have to go through the unanticipated hassle of flying home while sick and then infecting an airplane full of people.
This is passing the buck at its worst, IMO. They need to figure out how to better enforce the cabin quarantine rule rather than just kicking the sick off the ship.

[~Nereus~]

Thank you C2C for your first hand information.

Do you know if ill passengers were forced off the ship and left in ports along the way?



We are not aware of anyone being forced to go home. Some might have left because of the problems on board. The captain did his best to keep us informed every day. The CDC people on board were impressed with the actions taken by HAL to control the situation. The average age of passengers was between 70 and 75.. I don't know if that contributed to the 20 to 25% sick rate.

[peaches from georgia]

... The average age of passengers was between 70 and 75..
LOL. Is that an official number or just somewhat of an exaggerated 'guess'?

The average age on a HAL cruise is in the low to mid 50s, and that came from a HAL Captain, who believe me, knows. Do you have any idea how many people would have to be between 90 and 100 to have an average age of 70-75? :eek: Believe me, that is just not possible, in my opinion, without reading it from an official source. :)

[~Nereus~]

LOL. Is that an official number or just somewhat of an exaggerated 'guess'?

The average age on a HAL cruise is in the low to mid 50s, and that came from a HAL Captain, who believe me, knows. Do you have any idea how many people would have to be between 90 and 100 to have an average age of 70-75? :eek: Believe me, that is just not possible, in my opinion, without reading it from an official source. :)

Believe me it was a conservative estimate...... enough bald palates to serve as solar collectors... if the sun had been shining. :cool:

Every ship, every cruise is unique... that captain was not on this Veendam sailing.... this average was way higher.... younger passengers might be on Vista class ships... but these passengers appreciate the decor of an earlier pre-Carnival era..

If you have few young people you don't need 90+...
And I don't believe you more than my eyesight and my experience on this sailing.

[blackbird71]

http://www.sptimes.com/2005/01/29/Tampabay/Flu_takes_pleasure_ou.shtml


Flu takes pleasure out of cruise

Despite the crew's best efforts, the illness hit 200 passengers and 30 crew members on a Holland-America voyage through the Caribbean.

By SAUNDRA AMRHEIN, Times Staff Writer
Published January 29, 2005


TAMPA - Before their own tummies rumbled, before they were locked in their rooms, passengers aboard the cruise ship Veendam knew things were amiss.

"You would hear people in the room next to you at night," getting sick, said Kathy Miller, 53, of Iowa.

"It was a very vocal performance," added friend Luanna Raushenberger, 55.

Both women succumbed to a pesky virus that spread to about 200 passengers and 30 crew members aboard a Holland-America cruise through the Caribbean islands. Sick passengers experienced gastrointestinal problems and were quarantined to their rooms until they were better, passengers and officials

...more at the St. Pete Times

[Pudgesmom]

from the online entymology dictionary:

quarantine: Sense of "period a ship suspected of carrying disease is kept in isolation" is 1663, from It. quarantina giorni, lit. "space of forty days," from quaranta "forty," from L. quadraginta. So called from the Venetian custom of keeping ships from plague-stricken countries waiting off its port for 40 days (first enforced at Ragusa in 1377). The extended sense of "any period of isolation" is from 1680.

Let's hope none of the HAL ships are out of service this long! ;)

Beth

[JDee]

Veendam has set sail tonight as scheduled, per local TV newscast. Interview with one departing pax said he called HAL and was told all new bedding, ship sanitized stem to stern, and he is ready to go...

[arljay]

I am curious - we are sailing on HAL February 8th and are required to post $60 per day per person in the same stateroom before sailing. Did this happen to you? I am annoyed because we weren't notified before booking and feel as though HAL doesn't trust it's passengers to pay their bills. Did you have to put up that amount? thanks Arljay

[OCruisers]

Just arrived home (Thank God!) from Veendam!!! My DH did get the virus the 11th day of the 14 day cruise. He was VERY sick! I have remained well and it's been over 72 hours since his last "spell" so I'm keeping my fingers crossed!

TOMORROW I'll try to give MORE information to add to Ken and C2C's posts. In the meantime here are a couple of things that may be of interest:

The Captain told us that we were not stopping in Grand Cayman because he felt we would be turned away so we would head immediately for Tampa to allow for more cleaning time for the next sailing. Also, more on the Curacao situation later ....

There's no way to know about passengers coming aboard the ship ill BUT -- FOR SURE -- there were quite a few sick crew when we arrived on the ship! We boarded the ship on Saturday afternoon. The first major outbreak (per Captain) was the Tuesday evening we arrived in San Juan.

Our cabin was NOT completely clean when we arrived -- personal items from past PAX in the bathroom cabinet and a dirty sock under the bed .... So much for giving the ship a "special cleaning" before we arrived. :o

:) The Captain and his staff did an excellent job of keeping us informed.

:) At the CDC Q&A Session (also televised in cabin for the many quarantined) the CDC folks told us they did NOT know EXACTLY how the virus was spread and that's why they were there. They seemed to find interesting the fact that crew with absolutely NO contact with passengers caught the Norwalk Virus at same percentage as the crew members with pax contact. They were very open and honest with all of their answers. (I watched the session 3 times and took notes since I was in quarantine and had read my last book. :rolleyes: )

Very tired now! I have copies of all the memos, the CDC Questionnaire, etc.

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[cruzincurt]

When we get on a ship, the first thing we do upon entering the cabin is wipe down every surface we might touch with Clorox wipes.

That TV remote is bad, the toilet button, the sink faucets, the drawer handles, the door knobs, the light switches, etc.

[peaches from georgia]

I am curious - we are sailing on HAL February 8th and are required to post $60 per day per person in the same stateroom before sailing. Did this happen to you? I am annoyed because we weren't notified before booking and feel as though HAL doesn't trust it's passengers to pay their bills. Did you have to put up that amount? thanks Arljay
This is the same policy used by many hotels, car rental agencies and other vendors where you are using/consuming their product before you pay for it. HAL is not charging your credit card $60/pp/day; they are only getting that amount set aside from your available credit on your credit card, so that it will be available for HAL at the end of your cruise IF needed. In other words they are guaranteeing the funds will be there for them if there are charges to HAL at the end of the cruise for the things you have purchased and $$$ you have spent and charged while on the ship. Many people purchase so much while they are on vacation that at the end they have maxed out their credit limit before HAL charges their credit card for their ships account.

[sungoddess]

It is simply an AUTHORIZATION, not a charge. It is to make sure the credit card used is open, not expired, etc. This way, if there are any complications, it gives the guests time to sort it out.

[OCruisers]

TOMORROW I'll try to give MORE information to add to Ken and C2C's posts. I have copies of all the memos, the CDC Questionnaire, etc. Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

Had planned to write more BUT ... GUESS it's like "yesterday's dog fight" -- no one cares .............

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[sail7seas]

I care; I am sure others care.


I always enjoy reading about everyone's cruise. The good reports and the less than great ones, as well.

Please post. I'd like to read your comments.

Thank you.

[localady]

O' Cruisers-
I too appreciate reading about everyones experiences the great, the bad, and the ugly. So sorry to hear about your husband getting ill.:o


We all know how even a "perfect cruise" can be less than perfect for some of the cruisers....and a "bad" cruise can be worse! Would be interested to hear whether you had adequate room services while you were "Quarantined" and how you were treated in general during that time.

[OCruisers]

S7S and localady .... Thanks for your kind replies and for asking about my husband. He was very tired for about 24-Hours after his last "spell" but is totally fine now.

S7S .... Did your husband ever become infected with the virus? I still haven't had any symptoms whatsoever.

localady .... Room Service was EXCELLENT while we were quarantined! We never waited longer than 10 minutes for normal request (ice, drinks, snacks, etc.). Even when ordering from the "Dining Room Menu" (I'd call and ask for a menu to be sent to our cabin), meals were there in about 20 minutes.

Next week, I'll do a thread on a happy part of our cruise -- the ports.

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[sail7seas]

OCruisers.....


I'm happy to hear not only that your DH is recovered but also that you remained healthy. My DH also did not succumb. We kept expecting he probably would get it but we were very careful and we were lucky to keep him well.

I'll look forward to reading your comments when you have a chance to get to it.

Our last night aboard, DH was feeling fine and was hungry for dinner. We ordered full dinner room service for him and it arrived perfectly prepared, exactly as ordered in a very reasonable amount of time. He ordered me some scrambled eggs and dry toast and tea to see if I could keep anything down. I nibbled on it and was very appreciative the chef obliged us by preparing that for me. I am sure it had to be obvious to Room Service that someone was ill in our cabin to be ordering scrambled eggs for dinner.

[JDee]

Believe the postings that S7S, OCruisers & my DW did not pass on their ailments to their spouses proves a few things. With all those close contacts, the ailment does not spread indisciminantly. Don't ask me why...Must take some special effort to catch it...

Maybe it also proves that those who have the ailment will not necessarily spread it to others and can safely disembark the ship in a foreign port, board an aircraft and not infect others, once the "discharge" stops. Gez, after all, their sposes didn't catch it in that confined space.....

Many of those who are sick and disembark at cruise end will head for the airport to fly back home. I think the chances of passing on the ailment at that stage is rather insignificant. If any pilot got it, it does not necessarily mean it was passed on by a former cruise passenger. Do not believe for a minute that we or HAL put anyone at risk by our disembarkation and return flight home....

Would also like to add that at our disembarkation in St. Thomas, only one pax from a cabin was sick. Could have been a spouse, mother or child......The others were all OK.....

Sail, I know you and others do not agree with this, but that's OK.....Each of our opinions is set in concrete and a zillion words won't make it budge.

Happy cruising....

[sail7seas]

JDee....


I think your post to be very reasonable. I also think that some people may be more susceptible to catching this virus. In the past, we have been aboard several ships when there were outbreaks....including back to backs on Amsterdam 2002 when she was pulled from service it got so bad. Neither of us got it.

Since that time, I had a serious illness and I think it very possible I have a lower resistancy to such things now.

Thank you also for understanding we simply look at the issue from different places. I certainly respect your opinion on the subject.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We have been on several ships when the Norvo virus broke out.

And like you say, sail7seas, since DH had his heart attack, his system is not as strong as it used to be. So far neither of us has gotten the illness. And everytime we hear "Norvo" on a ship, I cringe.

I guess that is why whenever I have to use one of the public restrooms on a ship I get mad when the water isn't very warm.

[~Nereus~]

Just back from the Zenith after our Veendam cruise. We met one other passenger onboard who also sailed on the Veendam. We both enjoyed the Veendam and were shocked at the lack of special precautions on the Zenith...

After looking at every passenger onboard the Veendam as a potential threat, the Zenith made us realize that the NLV outbreak is not the normal state of life onboard a cruise ship.