Has SS gone down hill?

[Verystormy]

This is not a review but a question.

Firstly let me give some background until a couple of years ago i was a cruise agent in the UK and a fanatic with all things cruising and in particular the more luxury brands as i have always believed they offer great value for money. However 2 years ago i completed university studies and we moved to Australia to persue my career. As a result i dont get on the boards as often and havent been on a cruise ship for some time and wont in the near future as we are spending holiday time exploring our new country.

I am still very much a follower of SS along with the other well know luxury cruise brands such as Seabourne. Well, today having some spare time i decided to go through all of the reviews of SS and i was surprised at a lot of negative comments. Particularly with food.

Now, we all know how subjective food is, but there was just too many to ignore. I do expect a lot from a cruise line. If i am going to be charged $800 a day plus flights i am going to expect something VERY special. At least on a par with a 5 star hotel. But from what i am reading i would be concerned that it just wouldnt be the case.

So what are your views? Have things deteriated?

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

I think cruising has changed across all lines, not just Silversea and the luxury lines.

As far as Silversea is concerned:

At the beginning, caviar and Moet flowed freely (but most people didn't consume the caviar anyway).

The room attendants were from Scandinavia. The waiters were mostly European. Half-day shore excursions cost $50 or less and never had more than 20 passengers on the bus. Silversea included pre-cruise hotel and transfers.

Fast forward to today:

No more free caviar. Moet is gone. Entertainment is practically absent. (Remember Ombra and Susurra?). Grand pianos have been replaced by electronic keyboards. Five and ten-piece orchestras have been replaced by taped music and other electronic devices.

Room attendants and butlers are now mostly Filipino, Indonesian, Indian. The European waiters are mostly gone from the dining venues. Shore excursions are more expensive.

The intimacy of the once independently owned Mandara Spa is now your standard Steiner monopoly.

As far as food is concerned, I actually think it has improved, but that is my subjective taste and opinion.

But the good news is that, if you look for specials, a Silversea cruise can be nearly half the price it used to cost in the old days.

Just my opinion on a Sunday morning.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[keltic]

The company is selling now cruises at premium cruise line prices. So, having booked for a scandalous indicent low fare, I am not expecting anything dramatic. Just a little bit more upgraded than on Holland America, Cunard and so on. In fact, it´s what I got on Seabourn, Crystal or SeaDream. Not real feeling of sheer luxury, but a good quality according to the price. Plus intimacy, big accomodations, service and other small things which makes you feel special.

Luxury?. Is there a real luxury cruise company?. What´s luxury?. As you may have guessed a very subtle and personal concept which varies according to the people.

[oregon50]

Two very good replies.

[TLCOhio]

I am still very much a follower of SS along with the other well know luxury cruise brands such as Seabourne. Well, today having some spare time i decided to go through all of the reviews of SS and i was surprised at a lot of negative comments. Particularly with food. Now, we all know how subjective food is, but there was just too many to ignore. I do expect a lot from a cruise line. If i am going to be charged $800 a day plus flights i am going to expect something VERY special. At least on a par with a 5 star hotel. But from what i am reading i would be concerned that it just wouldnt be the case. So what are your views? Have things deteriated?

We have only done three cruises. Late June 2006 on 204-passenger Seabourn Spirit, Athens to Istanbul, enjoying the Greek Isles over seven days. Then late July 2008 on the 940-passenger Crystal Symphony, Dover to Stockholm, enjoying the Baltics and Russia. And this year July 1-16 on the 296-passenger Silver Cloud from Copenhagen seeing the Norway Coast, fjords, above the Arctic Circle, Land of the Midnight Sun, etc. All three lines were excellent with great service, fellow passengers, staff, etc. What’s best? The honest answer is . . . “It depends!!!”. Ports, schedules, timing and prices vary much, especially right now with this economy and two of these lines expanding (especially Seabourn) so much. Lots also depends on that "chemistry" on a cruise between the staff and passengers. It all worked well for us, especially with nice weather.

Per the below link/blog, I detailed, day-by-day, our cruise, the food, service, entertainment, speakers, etc. I was very, very pleased!!! I'm sure some budget tightening has happened with all of the cruise lines, but we had caviar one day available on the Galley buffet luncheon. Caviar isn't that big or important to me, but I was very happy with all of the food, service, variety, etc. In talking with the Executive Chef, things are always challenging as the supply options are not always equal for every trip in all parts of the world, what they can get from the ports where they stop, etc. Chefs have to be a little more creative in managing their budgets and process these days. All chefs and trips are not equal. Yes, the staffs are not as much from Europe as you might have seen in the past. BUT, in working with the staff (more from from Asia on this trip), we were very happy with the communications, connections and results. Their attitudes, skills, etc., were great. Happy, again! Below are a few visuals to summarize and detail the great food and service from our trip in early July on Silversea. Questions???

Sorry, Gunther and Uta, but my reactions and experiences worked out much better than for how you view things. That doesn't mean one is right and the other wrong. There can be varied results and experiences depending a wide number of factors, including expectations, luck of the staffing, etc.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 20,500 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923


For our final dining main course, after the strawberry sorbet serving, I had in the main dining room, this Angus beef that was called “Entrecote Rossini”. It was served with fois gras, a crispy potato galette and truffled jus. There were also main course options of sautéed sea scallop and shrimps, slow-cooked pigeon “Souvaroff” or summer lasagna without meat in it. There would be a Relais & Chateaux chef-suggested way to pick a selection for these three courses based on their “collection” of menu items for Silversea. Wellness and vegetarian options were noted on the menu. You could do menu special orders with a day’s advance notice to the kitchen. We did this as a group with a special Thai dinner that evening. If you had special diet needs, the kitchen should be advised in advance and they adjust well.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudDinnerMainCourse.jpg


In the Panorama Lounge late in the one of the afternoons, they had a chocolate special “event” with lots and lots of desserts and treats all from that magic item. Plus, there was nice piano music while you enjoyed.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudChocBarPiano.jpg


There is live music by this quartet for the enjoyment of guest experiencing this noon buffet.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudBuffetLiveMusic.jpg


Here is just one sampling of the three different tables with various dessert treats. This one picture is worth about one thousand fork-fulls. We have been told these delights are all low-cal, right?:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudBuffetDessertsOne.jpg


For our World Cup Championship Game, Spain versus Holland, this was our “PARTY” set-up in our room. It worked well for size with six in that space. We ordered off of the regular room service menu. In place of dining in the main DR, we had our dinning in the suite. Our Butler did a great job making arrangements and bringing it all together. A good time was had by ALL!!!:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/WorldCupPartySilverCloud.jpg


Here’s a picture of Maitre D' Jorge doing a great job finalizing details to get ready for the start of the International Buffet at noon on the Silver Cloud on a sea day. Nice ice carving and super food!:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudBuffetJorgeFinalDetails.jpg

[Observer]

Grand pianos have been replaced by electronic keyboards. Five and ten-piece orchestras have been replaced by taped music and other electronic devices.

This is a surprising assertion and disturbing (if true). However, if one looks at the photos posted by TLCOhio from a July cruise on the (small) Cloud, one sees both a grand piano and a live combo. Unless the grand pianos and live music have been pulled from Silversea in the past few months (and I doubt this is the case), the post above is inaccurate and inflammatory.

[TLCOhio]

This is a surprising assertion and disturbing (if true). However, if one looks at the photos posted by TLCOhio from a July cruise on the (small) Cloud, one sees both a grand piano and a live combo. Unless the grand pianos and live music have been pulled from Silversea in the past few months (and I doubt this is the case), the post above is inaccurate and inflammatory.

The pictures and our experiences are all true. As Joe Friday would say on Dragnet, "just the facts." In the Panorama Lounge, sometimes, he would also use the electronic keyboard as he played and sang. But, it wasn't recorded, unless he was taking a brief break. We didn't have a live music group for every meal. This was just at that noon buffet. Even for a 15-day cruise, the food quality and variety was excellent. We didn't feel we were getting the same thing, over and over. As shown below, our friend was very happy with the spa treatment. Shore tours have prices that are inflated, but that's true everywhere. Here are a few more items of "photo evidence" as to our experiences. In the Panorama Lounge, all was not "perfect". They didn't have the all-cashew mix I would have liked and they served Pringles a few times. Oh, well, we suffered along and survived under bad conditions.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now nearly at 20,800 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923


The Spa is popular on a sea day and here our friend, Janet, is treated like a “QUEEN”, loving it so very much!:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudSpaTreatment.jpg


From “The Bar”, here is what it showed for the main area with various Scotch selections and other options for drinks in this area. If you wanted added options, I understand there is more available. There are also nice bar areas in the Panorama Lounge and on the Pool Deck. The secret is asking. The bar staff was very good and helpful.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudBarSelections.jpg


For wine on the Silver Cloud, there is usually a suggested white and red that is offered and paired with the meal for that evening. Many of these come from Italy, Chile, Spain, California, France, South Africa, etc. I would call most of wine options as “good”. They are not low level, nor high. You can buy a higher-end selection, if you wish. You can also ask for some other options that you had tried and done earlier. Here was a California Cabernet Sauvignon from Esser that we liked and requested several times.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudDinnerWine.jpg


For dessert on our final evening in the main dining room, here is that visual of my apple-related pastry with great sauce, etc.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudDinnerDessert.jpg


Later in the evening, there is piano playing and entertainment in the Panorama Lounge at the back of the Silver Cloud on the scenic 8th level. He has a computer screen, so that guests can sing along as Sharon from the Washington, DC, area and Sheila from near Oxford in the UK are doing here.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/CloudSingingKar.jpg


Here’s a sample from one of the shows with the Silver Cloud dancers and singers. It's not Broadway, but they did a nice job on a small ship with lots of port stops and many other activities.:

http://i298.photobucket.com/albums/mm271/tlcohio/Cloud3DancersSinger.jpg

[oregon50]

I see a photo of a guy in the Panorama Lounge pretending to play the piano. If someone thinks it is nice music, that's fine by me. The live music has been a disappointment the past year.

[wripro]

As previously stated all luxury cruise lines have deteriorated in quality recently, starting even before the economy went South. However, I believe this will be noticed mostly only by those who have sailed with these lines for years. When I first sailed on SS in June of 1994 not only was caviar included, it was of a much finer quality. Also included were pre cruise hotel stays, travel insurance and a line of taxis upon disembarkation to take us wherever we wanted to go. Cognacs included Louis XIII. Wines were of a significantly better grade. There was an extra choice or two for each course on the menu at night. Over the years many of these little perks were eliminated. Does that mean SS is not a great product today? No. We have to be realistic. Fifteen years ago I was paying about $1500 per diem for two. Today I can get fares for less than that on certain itineraries and my expectations need to be commensurate with my outlay and the times.

[TLCOhio]

I see a photo of a guy in the Panorama Lounge pretending to play the piano. If someone thinks it is nice music, that's fine by me. The live music has been a disappointment the past year.

Nope, it's not Van Cliburn at the piano. It's late night music/entertainment in a a lounge!!! That's what I expect there, not super serious, classical music.

They did have a fairly good classical piano artist do evening programs a couple times on this SS ship in early July. I am not a high-end music expert, but I did see Van Cliburn perform back when I was in college in the late 1960's. Plus in more recent years, the Cleveland Orchestra and those famed groups from Boston, Philadelphia, Chicago, LA, etc. Plus, programs in some of the better music halls in Vienna, Prague, Budapest, etc.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[TLCOhio]

As previously stated all luxury cruise lines have deteriorated in quality recently, starting even before the economy went South. However, I believe this will be noticed mostly only by those who have sailed with these lines for years. Over the years many of these little perks were eliminated. Does that mean SS is not a great product today? No. We have to be realistic. Fifteen years ago I was paying about $1500 per diem for two. Today I can get fares for less than that on certain itineraries and my expectations need to be commensurate with my outlay and the times.

Our sailing experiences are more limited on just three cruises, 2006-2010 on Silversea, Seabourn and Crystal, but I think wripro has outlined a very realist and good summary. Times are "a changin'!!! Some prices are lower, depending on when you book and for where. Adjustments have been made, but the product is still very good. I would rather pay more reasonable pricing and not get the highest-end caviars and brandies.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now nearly at 20,800 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[Verystormy]

Thank you for the wonderful replies and pictures. It is always wonderful to see pictures even if it does make me envious.

I think that SS is still a great product, but probably i feel not as great as it once was and my fear is that it will continue to diminish. For me, i am not so bothered with caviar. I dont care what they charge for excusions as i would never take one, i dont care where in the world the staff are from. But i do care about the feel of the surroundings, the food available and quality of the accomodation.

Is it though still good value? I think that requires perspective and is very subjective. For myself now living in Australia with asia on my door step and a wealth of great hotels at good prices it doesnt feel as good a deal.

For example, we stayed recently at the Singapore Ritz in a executive level room so things such as champagne and canapes are included and the cost for a week is little more than the day rate with SS. We also recently stayed at the Anantara in Thailand for 10 days for little more than the day rate.

We will certainly come back to cruising, but that would be as long as the product doesnt dimish further otherwise it would be very difficult to justify the cost compared to what may be a far cheaper and superior product

[meow!]

But the good news is that, if you look for specials, a Silversea cruise can be nearly half the price it used to cost in the old days.Do you mean after adjusting for general inflation? Surely not the superficial number of dollars/day.

[chicagogal]

Do you mean after adjusting for general inflation? Surely not the superficial number of dollars/day.

I think in real dollars compared to our first Silver Wind in 1999 which was, as I recall, about $600 - $650 pp per day for a vista suite. Not quite half now maybe, but close. We have done a couple for under $400 pp per day.

[meow!]

We don't have data back that far. With our limited experience, our first voyage 7 days Mexican Riviera aboard the Shadow in 2004 was $1765 or $252 per diem (then speical discount at 50% off), our second voyage 15 days Panama Canal again on the Shadow in 2007 was $4900 or $327 per diem (at 40% discount). Now for the sake of comparison take voyage #5041, 9 days for $3358 (at the new exaggerated "60% discount"), deduct $200 air allowance, it comes to $351 per diem sans air. So at least since 2004, the per diem fare gradually increased by 5.7% per year compounded nominally (before allowing for general inflation).

For the pre-2004 days, perhaps things were different. They did keep free flowing caviar until the end of 2007 (we were the last to enjoy that) .. meow!

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

I didn't say Silversea wasn't a good product. We had a great time on the Spirit in June. I was just comparing to what it used to be.

Terry -- the Cloud is an old ship. They probably left the pianos. The Silver Spirit's pianos are all electronic. I specifically looked at this because I play the piano.

The speech they give you about making due with the meager provisions they are able to obtain only holds true when the ship is floating around Eastern and Western Africa, where they usually don't provision from local suppliers (except in South Africa) but rather count on containers reaching the ship.

In Europe, North America, the Caribbean, Asia, South America and Australia the ships are serviced and provisioned by standard, international, logistics companies who themselves coordinate what suppliers they use depending upon the level and budget required by the cruise line.

The executive chef may very well shop the local markets in Provence, to use an example, but that is for the purpose of purchasing something special or something local for the passengers to enjoy. That is not for the purpose of major provisioning of the ship.

Ever watch the cruise ships being provisioned on a Saturday or Sunday in Barcelona? It is actually very interesting to see.

Terry, I actually believe that entertainment isn't important on a line like Silversea. However, if they are going to provide entertainment, they should realize that entertainers should be able to interact with passengers. Without meaning any harm to anyone, and in following my practice of always being candid, I do think there is a big difference between a Filipino boy playing the electronic piano in the Panorama Lounge (which is what we experienced on the Spirit) who says nothing more than good evening and good night, and an experienced, accomplished piano player who hails from Broadway productions and nightclubs in New York, who truly interacts with the guests.

Meow, I was just looking back over my American Express statements. In Spring of 2001, I paid 12,000 euros for two passengers for a ten night Silversea cruise in a verandah suite, with one pre-cruise night hotel and transfers included, but no air. I remember that this cruise included an alleged discount of 25% as a promotion they were running back then for paying with your American Express card.

In June 2010, I paid 4,000 euros for two passengers for a seven night Silversea cruise on the Spirit in a mid-ship verandah suite, no hotel, no transfers, no air included, just cruise only. By way of comparison, a 7-night cruise on the NCL Gem doing a very similar cruise in June 2010, would have cost 5,000 euros for two passengers in a junior suite, in a mass-market, non-inclusive, environment.

That is why I say that Silversea cruises are an extreme bargain right now and a marvelous product. I just don't think the quality compares with the old days, but I would also like to emphasize that I am no longer looking for that same quality because the price has decreased substantially.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[jgibbs]

...At the beginning, caviar and Moet flowed freely (but most people didn't consume the caviar anyway). The room attendants were from Scandinavia. The waiters were mostly European. Half-day shore excursions cost $50 or less and never had more than 20 passengers on the bus. Silversea included pre-cruise hotel and transfers. Fast forward to today: No more free caviar. Moet is gone. Entertainment is practically absent. (Remember Ombra and Susurra?). Grand pianos have been replaced by electronic keyboards. Five and ten-piece orchestras have been replaced by taped music and other electronic devices. [...] As far as food is concerned, I actually think it has improved, but that is my subjective taste and opinion. But the good news is that, if you look for specials, a Silversea cruise can be nearly half the price it used to cost in the old days.... I don't miss the caviar. I do miss the Moet, but it doesn't spoil the trip. The nationality of the staff doesn't make a huge difference IMO. Pre-cruise hotels were 'included', but you paid for them in the higher fares. I don't remember any 10-piece orchestras. I agree that the food has improved over the last 10 years and that value has improved, especially if you allow for inflation.

[CruisinGerman]

Dear friends:

Don't you remember the 5 to 10 piece orchestra (consisting mostly of Polish musicians) that used to accompany the Ombra and Susurra Jean Ann Ryan shows, and then played in other venues of the ship?

I sure do remember them.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[Emtbsam]

Nothing is as it used to be. I remember the "good old days" on Cunard transatlantic on the original Queen Elizabeth (not the QE 2). There is no ship afloat which provides the level of service, food or formality that we experienced in First Class in the 1950's. Society has also changed - partly for the better, partly for the worse all depending on your point of view. (By the way, there was no air conditioning on board in those days!)

Is Silversea a wonderful experience? For us, most definitely yes. Has it changed? Yes. Have I changed? Yes! I am just thankful to be able to have such wonderful travels.

[jgibbs]

Don't you remember the 5 to 10 piece orchestra (consisting mostly of Polish musicians) that used to accompany the Ombra and Susurra Jean Ann Ryan shows, and then played in other venues of the ship? I sure do remember them.I remember the four-piece bands (five-piece sometimes on Whisper), often Polish and sometimes quite accomplished. I remember the Jean Ann Ryan shows and the Walter Painter ones that preceded them (even met the gent once). Never came across more than five musicians at one time, though.

[meow!]

Meow, I was just looking back over my American Express statements. In Spring of 2001, I paid 12,000 euros for two passengers for a ten night Silversea cruise in a verandah suite, with one pre-cruise night hotel and transfers included, but no air. I remember that this cruise included an alleged discount of 25% as a promotion they were running back then for paying with your American Express card.

In June 2010, I paid 4,000 euros for two passengers for a seven night Silversea cruise on the Spirit in a mid-ship verandah suite, no hotel, no transfers, no air included, just cruise only. By way of comparison, a 7-night cruise on the NCL Gem doing a very similar cruise in June 2010, would have cost 5,000 euros for two passengers in a junior suite, in a mass-market, non-inclusive, environment. In 2001, a euro was worth perhaps 85 cents, now it is $1.3. So you paid 12,000 euros for 10 days in 2001, subtract say 300 euros for hotel and transfer, that comes to 585 euros (perhaps $500) per diem. This year, you paid 4000 euros for 7 days, that is 285 euros ($370) per diem, that is one-quarter less. Perhaps there had been serious changes between 2001 and 2004, can someone fill in on that? (Also see posting #15 on this thread)

[oregon50]

Sure, I'll fill in on that. Most people on here are talking in general terms when it comes to tariff paid. I doubt many folks are spending time dicing a penny fifty different ways.

[writer100]

I have no memories of SS, as we are now contemplating out first Silversea cruise. Nor can I find prices that are less than $1,000 per diem (for two). Obviously, there is no Venetian Society discount at play. I do not count as cost reductions any on board credits from TA's, as they mitigate only the excursion (or heaven help me, the spa) costs. Perhaps I am looking at very popular cruises with nominal (60%) discounts. Or I haven't found a really aggressive travel agent. But on a per diem basis, my research seems to suggest that Seabourn is less expensive than Silversea. Yes, i have two SB cruises done, and a third coming up in December. And yes, the Florida-based cruises do seem to carry lower costs to start with. But the feeling persists that SS is at least somewhat more expensive.(As pointed out elsewhere, writers are very sensitive to even minor shifts in the economy.)
As to costs then and now, both SS and SB must certainly enjoy some economies of scale, which helps with advertising and marketing costs, and to a smaller degree with virtually everything else. The attraction of Asian crew is that often they will enthusiastically sign contracts for jobs which others are reluctant to. Remember, these are non-union jobs, not covered by the National Maritime Union as the ships sail under flags of convenience.
Cruisin' German, I like your uncompromising view of the world. (I remember your sense of outrage at tips being demanded at the spa, while on a no-tipping vessel.) Terry, I have the feeling that you and your camera would make the Mary Celeste look inviting.(And is the Sheila pictured the elusive shefinch of posting anonymity?)
Thanks to all you for your historiical perspectives and insightful comments.

[meow!]

Nor can I find prices that are less than $1,000 per diem (for two)..Taking a cursory look at the Silversea website http://www.silversea.com/ , you should be able to find lots of voyages at less than $1,000 per day per couple ($500 per diem), without taking into account Venetian Society discounts, if any. They include the following:

Practically all Caribbean voyages. (The majority of these are on board the newbuild Spirit)

Mediterranean: Voyages 2108,2110,2113,2130,2131

Africa: 2035,2037,2038,2102,2103,2107,2134

Far East, Australia: 3034,3103,3133

New England: 4131

South America: 4031,4034,4035,4101,4103,4134,4136,1129

For each voyage number, the first digit is the ship, the second digit the year, the third and fourth digits the chronological voyage number of that given ship in that given year.

Hope the above helps. Good luck!

[cechase]

I have no memories of SS, as we are now contemplating out first Silversea cruise. Nor can I find prices that are less than $1,000 per diem (for two).

Perhaps you are looking all of the wrong places. The per diem for my Mid-ship veranda on my forth coming cruise comes to less than $570.00, and I am solo and paying a single supplement. My 15 day cruise on Shadow earlier this year was below $500.00 per day again with a single supplement.

[TLCOhio]

I have no memories of SS, as we are now contemplating out first Silversea cruise. Terry, I have the feeling that you and your camera would make the Mary Celeste look inviting. (And is the Sheila pictured the elusive shefinch of posting anonymity?) Thanks to all you for your historiical perspectives and insightful comments.

I learned something new today. You made reference to the "Mary Celeste". Didn't quite know what you were referencing. Fortunately, Wikipedia had a nice summary on that "ghost ship" having been discovered in December 1872 in the Atlantic Ocean unmanned and apparently abandoned. Very, very interesting historical story. True, but nobody knows for sure what really happened with that ship. Don't think that I'm that good on the pictures to make that ship seem nice. People help make things more interesting.

On Sheila, she is a charming lady from England. Not sure if she is Shefinch on these posting boards. She and her husband, Michael, are from Beaconsfield, UK, northwest of London, about halfway between there and Oxford. Both Sheila and Michael are wonderfully nice and enjoyable. There were pictured on my live/blog posting at several points, including when we toured the Prince Albert II.

On Seabourn, they will have gone by next summer in two years from only three ships with 612 slots to fill each week . . . jumping up to six ships with 1,962 spaces. That's why their pricing is "more aggressive" right now. With the current economic situation (challenging) and lots of new ships ordered when times were, kind of, better, you can find values. BUT, you have to wade through lots of slick headlines and then read the "details" later and see if that works or applies to the actual ports and timing you need and want.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now nearly at 21,000 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[meow!]

On Seabourn, they will have gone by next summer in two years from only three ships with 612 slots to fill each week . . . jumping up to six ships with 1,962 spaces. That's why their pricing is "more aggressive" right now. I fully agree with your reasoning. By the way, one thing I fail to understand, and perhaps you can help with your wisdom, is that how come Oceania, which is going from 3x680 berths to an additional 2x1250 berths (also more than doubling) is not agressive at all in their pricing. Any suggestions?

[TLCOhio]

I fully agree with your reasoning. By the way, one thing I fail to understand, and perhaps you can help with your wisdom, is that how come Oceania, which is going from 3x680 berths to an additional 2x1250 berths (also more than doubling) is not agressive at all in their pricing. Any suggestions?

Having only done three cruises, 2006-2010, Seabourn Spirit, Crystal Symphony and Silversea Silver Cloud, Oceania has not come up that much on my radar. They are building and adding lots of new capacity. That line is controlled by Apollo, a big private-equity, hedge fund player that has been active in leisure and hospitality industries with Harrah’s, AMC Entertainment, Sirius Satellite Radio, Wyndham, Oceania Cruises in 2007 and half of Norwegian Cruise Line. Since investing in Oceania, Apollo has ordered of two new ships worth approximately $1 billion. In early 2008, they acquired Regent Seven Seas Cruises for a billion dollars. Lots of high finance, high risk involved, especially during these choppy economic times. When I have looked recently at Regent, they have lots of sales gimmicks, but their net prices seemed very high compared to other options of similar quality.

We considered Oceania for our 2010 Norway Coast trip. A major downside was that their basic room was only 165 sq. ft. On their three current ships, that's fairly small. The newer ships being built will have much larger basic rooms at 242 sq. ft.

From the South Florida Business Journal on March 12, 2010, they have this headline: "Cruise Industry Sails Toward IPOs" with these story highlights on Oceania: "Europe, particularly the Mediterranean, has emerged as a hot spot for the cruise industry . . . . 90 percent of Oceania's passengers come from the U.S. and Canada and typically like to spend at least 10 days on cruises. The new ships will be able to accommodate group bookings of up to 125, while Oceania puts a limit of 50 on its existing ships. The new Marina ship will include cabins with interiors featuring Ralph Lauren furnishings. Some will be designed by New York's Dakota Jackson. Oceania positions itself as offering the experience of being in a luxury estate home at sea with the cuisine a big selling point."

From this story, it seems that Oceania is putting lots of "glitz" into these new ships and other upgrades to the three current ships. How good the "real quality" and service would be are unknown to me. I just worry at times when "finance types" get involved running service-oriented businesses. Floating new IPO's and "cashing out" at the max do not always means the best value and service for customers, IMO.

Full story at:
http://southflorida.bizjournals.com/southflorida/blog/cruise_industry_report/2010/03/cruise_industry_sails_towards_ipos.html

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now nearly at 21,000 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[meow!]

Thank you kindly. You are very knowledgeable.

[Scotspea]

It is true that standards are falling everywhere and I include universities!:rolleyes:

[writer100]

Meow and Cechase, thank you for the advisory. I was referencing the specific cruises we were pondering #1117 & #1118, both on Cloud. Cruises on the larger vessels are of no interest to us. Yes, I acknowledge that all Florida-based cruises are less expensive, mostly (I imagine) because of the cutthroat competition, and the very large pool of local seniors who are economy minded. I still have the sense--perhaps incorrectly--that SS is a tad more expensive. Also, I was looking at veranda cabins. Yes, if you look at the least expensive cabins there are SS cruises with reasonable per diems but they are more likely to be found on the larger ships. ( I think.)
And we --that's the royal "we" from my companion--are not interested in trans-Atlantic voyages. (Actually, I think they sound like great fun, but harmony is often built on compromise.)
Cechase, I note your "cruise" on an LST. I once landed on a carrier, off of Pensacola, Can't remember it she was the Wasp, or? Anyway, as a consequence I became an Honorary Airdale. of which I am quite proud.

[TLCOhio]

Thank you kindly. You are very knowledgeable.

THANKS, but I'm not really that knowledgeable! Just know how to use Google news, do searches, etc. It's an interesting and changing business area. The "flexibility" for cruise ships is that they can be moved them around in different "markets" as consumer demands, supply, etc., changes things. Hard to do that with large luxury hotels, golf course resorts, etc. As the article notes, Europe is a "hotter", more in demand area for certain passengers. Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now nearly at 21,000 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[cruzemaven]

We were on Silver Spirit this summer and Silver Wind 14 years ago. On the Wind we remember that the food and service had been excellent. On the Spirit the entertainment is much improved (lavish production shows), but we found the food and service to be only fair.
IMHO that's my comparison between the new and the old Silversea. When comparing Silver to today's premium and mass market cruise ships, it is still head and shoulders above.

[newlondon]

writer100, I suspect you were on the USS Lexington an Essex class carrier that was used for training by Pensacola NAS. I spent three years on the prototype the USS Essex CVS-9. I was ship's company and therefore not an honorary airedale.

[wripro]

One other thing to keep in mind is that many of Silversea's price now include airfare or a discount if you don't use it. This would help make up some of the difference in price with SB though, in general, at this moment I think I agree that SB's prices are lower.

[Wellseasoned]

Is Silversea a wonderful experience? For us, most definitely yes. Has it changed? Yes. Have I changed? Yes! I am just thankful to be able to have such wonderful travels.

Victoria, agree 100%. Perfectly said!

Dieter

[writer100]

Sure, I'll fill in on that. Most people on here are talking in general terms when it comes to tariff paid. I doubt many folks are spending time dicing a penny fifty different ways.

writer100, I suspect you were on the USS Lexington an Essex class carrier that was used for training by Pensacola NAS. I spent three years on the prototype the USS Essex CVS-9. I was ship's company and therefore not an honorary airedale.
Newlondon, I believe you are right. Certainly she was an Essex class, and Lexington does ring a bell. Just to confirm, she was (at that point) a training vessel for Navy Air, right? Thank you, as her name has eluded me lo these many years. (I am constantly amazed at the detailed information available from cc members.)
Oh yes, I was a passenger in a jet trainer practicing touch n' goes. Great fun, as long as you don't eat lunch prior.

[TLCOhio]

Victoria, agree 100%. Perfectly said! Dieter

Emtbsam: Is Silversea a wonderful experience? For us, most definitely yes. Has it changed? Yes. Have I changed? Yes! I am just thankful to be able to have such wonderful travels.

YES! Agree strong with Dieter and Victoria. It is well stated and summarized. Things are always changing!!! That makes things interesting and in many or most cases, better.

I like to take pictures when I travel. I love what's happened with digital and how I can "process" things on my laptop, send them out via e-mail, upload during the cruise, see on my wide-screen TV at home, etc. As I shoot, I know what I'm getting, even under marginal lighting situations, etc.

On cruising, the world "competition" and expanded capacity, has forced some cruise lines to "adjust", but it has driven some improvements, better pricings, etc. THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 21,000 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923

[dusababy]

YES! Agree strong with Dieter and Victoria. It is well stated and summarized. Things are always changing!!! That makes things interesting and in many or most cases, better.

I like to take pictures when I travel. I love what's happened with digital and how I can "process" things on my laptop, send them out via e-mail, upload during the cruise, see on my wide-screen TV at home, etc. As I shoot, I know what I'm getting, even under marginal lighting situations, etc.

On cruising, the world "competition" and expanded capacity, has forced some cruise lines to "adjust", but it has driven some improvements, better pricings, etc. THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

For lots of interesting details, great visuals, etc., from our July 1-16 Norway Coast/Fjords/Arctic Circle cruise experience from Copenhagen on the Silver Cloud, check out this posting. Don’t be shy and feel free to ask any questions of interest. This posting is now over 21,000 views. Appreciate those who have “tuned in”.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1227923


TLCOhio
I fail to see the connection between your enjoyment of photography and the question.

[newlondon]

writer100, While on the Essex I was an OOD. We drove the ship while the airdales practiced as you did touch and goes. Imagine doing that at night off Norfolk VA in a driving rainstorm-obviously no moon. That will get all your attention as it did even mine as the officer in charge.

[TLCOhio]

TLCOhio. I fail to see the connection between your enjoyment of photography and the question.

Some like change. Some hate it. Some change is good. Some change is bad. Different people deal with and react to change in a variety of ways. The major changes from film to digital in photography or hand-written letters to e-mails are two examples of "CHANGE" where there are a wide spectrum of viewpoints and reactions with significant emotions involved. The evolving cruise world seems to gain certain wide-ranging reactions to such changes.

THANKS! Enjoy! Terry in Ohio

[writer100]

Newlondon, I would be honored to buy you a drink.But I will skip the tn'g's during the rain. I thought it was plenty scary even while the sun was shining. Thank you for your service. (She was the USS Lexington, an Essex class, yes?)

[newlondon]

Yes