Noro Virus Solutions

[fastsneakers]

I have to congratulate Holland America (HAL), from my understanding they offered passengers a refund if they chose not to sail with the ship that was recently sick (the Veendam). When the Mariner of the Seas had a "code red" outbreak of the Norwalk Virus last week RCCL wasn't so gracious to my 87 year old Mom, she wanted to cancel as she is probably very susceptible to viruses but they refused to refund any of her fare and she HAD purchased insurance! Sorry RCCL we’ll be cruising HAL this year. If more cruisers supported HAL in this matter maybe we could get this “take the money and run” cancellation policy abolished.

I think all cruise lines need to take a lot more responsibility for these outbreaks. What are the cruise lines doing to help prevent this sickness other than installing mobile hand sanitizers? Personally I feel the industry may be headed for difficult times if something isn't done to control the outbreaks and prevent cruisers from losing their vacation to sickness. The percentage of sick passengers seems to be growing; I believe the latest outbreak effected over 20% of the ship. I'm sure the remaining 80% of the passengers were inconvenienced to say the least and probably paranoid to say the most. How much fun is that? I’ve heard reports that gamblers in the casino were given gloves to wear when handling the chips and cards and also passengers are bringing their own personal utensils such as tongs to take food selections from the buffet. Passengers are afraid to touch anything without washing their hands afterward. Again, this is the responsibility of the cruise line to handle these outbreaks. Holland America is the only line that has put their money where their mouth is and offered refunds. I say we support their efforts and voice our opinions.

I have a few suggestions for controlling these outbreaks, for what it’s worth here they are:

First, it seems the problem stems from passengers boarding with the virus, ok then the cruise line should refund the cruisers trip if canceling because of sickness, a doctors written confirmation could be required and the passenger is refunded, with or without insurance. The way it's designed now if you don't take the insurance you lose money...how many of us are willing to lose several thousands of dollars because we we're not feeling well...not many, I'm going on that cruise unless I'm on my death bed! They are actually forcing people to cruise when they are sick!! I'm not totally comfortable with the cancellation policies of the cruise lines anyway. What's up with the take the money and run attitude? What sort of customer service is that? Wouldn't it be better for us to at least have a "credit to cruise" for the next year? They still get their revenue and we still get to cruise. It seems pretty one sided now, in favor of the cruise line. We as consumers are allowing them to charge us for insurance and take our money if we cancel without it and take our money sometimes even when we do have insurance! Why should we have to spend more on insurance just to get our money back from a cruise we didn't take? At least give us a credit for a future cruise.

Second, how about a Doctors approval one week before boarding? I wouldn't have a issue with getting a doctors approval before cruising. I'd be happy to know that other cruisers didn't have something contagious prior to the cruise. Also...ditto for the cruise staff.... shouldn’t they be required to have regular health checks? Do they now? I'm not sure.

Does anyone agree with me on these issues? Obviously we all love to cruise but don’t you think it’s time for a change here?

[dakrewser]

Hotels, airlines even some restaurants and taxi companies have policies intended to keep clients from cancelling at the last moment with monetary penalties. If they didn't, they'd lose their shirt. People think nothing of double- and triple-booking just to ensure their own convenience and the rest of the world be damned.

Take your suggestion of "Why should we have to spend more on insurance just to get our money back from a cruise we didn't take? At least give us a credit for a future cruise. "

The cruise line is still out the fare of the passenger they can't book on that "future" cruise because they are giving you a free ride. Quite possibly their out a higher fare than you paid. All because you decided you "didn't really want to go."

Still, the cruise lines could do that - but only if they seriously raised fares to cover their losses. Do you really want to pay 25-30"% more for your cruise?

[CaptData]

I have a question? Have you gone to work with a cold at anytime in your life? Maybe you gave me your cold beacuse you had to work to pay the bills. I caught your cold now you want me to stay home and miss my vatcation because you are on the same cruise but no longer have your cold that I got. I worked for this vacation too but stayed home when I had a cold earlier. Oh, I did not know I had a cold until after I boarded the ship, I thought I was sneezing because I have problems with some flowers. 24 hours after I board 10 others are sneezing 4 at my table. Those 10 have now passed your cold to 100 others. Arn't you glad you went to work with your cold. Oh, let's blame the cruiseline for not cleaning enough. Most of these get started on land and end up on the ship in an enclosed enviroment which will spead thing far more easily.

Now you want your money back because you caught a cold, not the measles or chicken pox. You also want money for your flight and hotels that you used prior to the cruise. What about the taxis and the food. Do you want your money back if you missed the ship due to a late plane, due to going to Carlos and Charlie's. I agree some compansion may be nessisary for those who do get inconvinces (ie missed their flights because of delay of beening allowed off the ship). But if they pd everyone on board because of the Norovirus the cruiselines would all be out of business in a few months.

Yes I'm glad HAL stepped up and gave money back for the next cruise so they can clean the ship if they wanted the money but I'll bet they many did not take it because it cost to much to just return home. I live in the middle of Canada. It costs me about the price of the cruise to get there and back, I would have to stay. If you lived in Florida or whereever the home port is then you would not be out if they gave you your money back. Will the cruise line also cover all the hotel ect for everyone, no. So many will still go

[Himself]

You know cruising is expensive. So some people are reluctant to cancel and get hit with penalties and non refunds and so they go and get on a ship when they really shouldn't. If someone gets on with the flu, of course it is going to spread. Again, a non-flu case. I can remember someone being air-lifted off a ship a few years ago. They were very sick when they got on and spent most of the first day in the infirmary when they had to be taken off by helicopter. I heard that the person should have gone to the hospital rather than the airport to get the plane to to Ft. Lauderdale and the Holland ship.
Sometimee, a little common sense goes a long way. Too many people do not look at the total picture.
HIMSELF

[JaniceB]

A doctors exam 1 week before would not help keep colds, flus and other viruses from entering a ship. Most people arrive a day or two early for a cruise and can pick up alot of germs in the hotels and restaurants before they enter the ship. I think this is just an inconvience of cruising in the winter just like hurricanes can be an inconvience in the late summer and fall. Cruisers need to practice good hygiene and not board a ship if they are ill. Maybe cruise lines should make every one buy trip cancellation insurance that covers illness, hopefully people would not board if they were sick and able to recover their costs.

[TedC]

Fastsneakers,
There are alternatives to cruise line insurance. Try insuremytrip.com or do a search on insurance and you'll find suggestions from other cruisers.

[jhannah]

I believe the cruise lines are doing all they can to keep their ships sanitary. They steam clean carpets and continually wash down public areas with a disinfecting solution. But we get on, get off, and get back on again. Viruses can come from anywhere. I believe strongly that people who are sick should have the common sense to stay home. Sure it's a disappointment to not go on the cruise ... but that person needs to stay home and get well. You're right in saying that a lot of folks will go when they're sick regardless. Many people carry the virus on board and don't know it. The symptoms don't appear until the cruise is underway. A doctor's note would be worthless. I can be fine when visiting the doctor then pick up a virus afterward and bring it on the ship.

The solution to financial loss is insurance. Every cruise line makes it available. There are third-party sources that sell it, too. Yes, I should purchase insurance to protect my investment. Why should I have to purchase insurance on my house to pay for damage caused by lightening that was no fault of my own? That appears to be the argument put forth with regard to cruises. When loss occurs, it doesn't matter whose fault it was. If one doesn't have the resources to "eat" the trip's cost, then insurance is the answer.

[sail7seas]

To tell people they need to go to their doctor and get a health clearance before cruising will be the end of a great many people cruising. Sure....my doctors are going to love that one! Just what he/she have time for! How far ahead do you think I need to schedule this appointment? We cruise about 5-6 times a year. All those doctor's visits are going to be paid for by whom?


Just what busy working/family folks have time for. The last week before vacation is always so hectic for everyone. Sitting in their doctor's office waiting room (probably being exposed to who knows what) is just what they are going to put up with!!

Not practical IMO I like some of what you wrote and hope other cruiselines think about it.....but I don't agree with the doctor's note part.

[HeatherInFlorida]

There are a few medications such as Airbourne and Zicam (there may be others) which are designed to ward off viruses. You take them either before or at the very first sign of gettingill) I don't know if they would work for this, but I know many people who use Airbourne (designed by a school teacher I've read due to all the passing of illnesses by children) before going on planes and ships. They swear by it.

Of course, we can never be positive it's the use of this medication that kept them from getting sick, but what harm could it possibly do? Just one more precaution we can take along with washing hands (mandatory and often) and sanitizers. Personally I do not support sanitizers and anti-bacterial soaps since we are slowly destroying our natural immune system by their overuse ... however I do use the ship's sanitizers in dining areas for the safty of my fellow passengers).

[RuffinReady]

The solution to financial loss is insurance. Every cruise line makes it available. There are third-party sources that sell it, too. Yes, I should purchase insurance to protect my investment. Why should I have to purchase insurance on my house to pay for damage caused by lightening that was no fault of my own? That appears to be the argument put forth with regard to cruises. When loss occurs, it doesn't matter whose fault it was. If one doesn't have the resources to "eat" the trip's cost, then insurance is the answer.

jhannah is giving us his usual intelligent advice. Everything in life has its risks including dieing, which we all do eventually. Taking out insurance is the process of transferring your risk to someone else, like an insurnce company. You pay a fee and they take your risk for you. You pay your money or you take the risk, its that simple.

Ruffin

[bepsf]

Holland America has some of the cleanest ships afloat - but the cleanest ship won't prevent someone from boarding w/ influenza & spreading it to others.

Personally, I prefer the service in the Lido when they shift to preventative measures. It's much nicer to have someone make a plate for me rather than serve myself - its the way buffets used to be when I was a kid. If the lines would simply go to this type of food service on a regular basis, it would help prevent the spread of these illnesses before they get out of hand.

[Kami's pal]

are a very common risk. I agree with that.

However, I don't think that the vacation venues, including cruise ships, are doing everything that they can to decrease the risk to passengers.
First, what measures are they taking to ensure that their staff is healthy? I've seen a cabin steward reporting to clean my cabin while coughing so badly that I refused to allow him into the room! I saw a cabin steward come in to my very contaminated room and with bare hands change linen, pick up my room service utensils etc. and go on to "clean" the next room. Why aren't they given disposable gloves and instructed how to use them?

Quarantining passengers isn't the only measure to stop this.

[JDee]

I have to congratulate Holland America (HAL), from my understanding they offered passengers a refund if they chose not to sail with the ship that was recently sick (the Veendam). When the Mariner of the Seas had a "code red" outbreak of the Norwalk Virus last week RCCL wasn't so gracious to my 87 year old Mom, she wanted to cancel as she is probably very susceptible to viruses but they refused to refund any of her fare and she HAD purchased insurance! Sorry RCCL we’ll be cruising HAL this year. If more cruisers supported HAL in this matter maybe we could get this “take the money and run” cancellation policy abolished.



Actually HAL's no questions asked refund policy in this particular incident, probably didn't cost that much. Believe it did serve it's purpose. First off, like so many posters have brought out, once you arrive at the port terminal, do you really want to call the whole thing off?? Have a feeling that there were very few, maybe none, that took HAL up on that offer. Most likely we will never know. HAL would be wise to keep those statics under wraps.

Secondly, those that made the cruise and eventually got sick, will not be a position to bad mouth HAL (at least they shouldn't), as they had the opportunity to get their cruise money back. True, they would have to eat their air fare, possible hotel expenses, etc.

And thirdly, it did create a lot of much needed goodwil that HAL did step up to the plate. It certainly won over fastsneakers and possibly many others.

As for that Dr exam, wellness or illness certificates, not very practical in the real world as S7S and other comments. The certificates not worth the paper they would be written on.

If one wants to prevent a financial loss, insurance remains the only viable option.

Heather: I'm the curious type and tried to get a read on those 2 medicataions on webmd but came up blank. That website lists both prescription and non-prescription meds but neither came up.

Bringing your own serving tongs to the Lido was a new one. If the ship is in their version of code red, everything will be served to you....

Happy cruising...and stay healthy......

[HeatherInFlorida]

JDee, I use WebMD myself all the time. Surprised they don't mention them. They're non-prescription and are in all drugstores . There may be other brands and I certainly wasn't touting any one brand. The only reason I knew is they have talked about it on our local news broadcasts and friends told me about it.

I just went to WebMD and in "search" typed "cold remedies" and a link popped up for Airbourne ... it's an ad, but you can read about it there.

[sail7seas]

I just did a google on Zicam and there are plenty of links.


Here is the first they list.....probably advertisements for the product.

http://froogle.google.com/froogle?q=zicam&hl=en&lr=&sa=N&tab=ff&oi=froogler


I have never tried it and have no clue if they are effective or not but I have heard of it and have seen it in the stores.

Seeing as it really is on subject, I hope someone might give some comments as to its effectiveness in their experience.

[RuffinReady]

Holland America has some of the cleanest ships afloat - but the cleanest ship won't prevent someone from boarding w/ influenza & spreading it to others.

Personally, I prefer the service in the Lido when they shift to preventative measures. It's much nicer to have someone make a plate for me rather than serve myself - its the way buffets used to be when I was a kid. If the lines would simply go to this type of food service on a regular basis, it would help prevent the spread of these illnesses before they get out of hand.

Brian, isn't more of a risk to have someone on the serving line handle your plate? Usually the people behind the line at the buffet are not in close proximity with the food except when they replinish the items. What do you think?

Ruffin

[JDee]

Sail & Heather: Thanks for the info. Found it.....

[HeatherInFlorida]

I know people who take (one of them ... don't want to advertise here;) ) and report that it works. But then again, how do we know? This friend has taken the medication on planes and cruises and says she'll never go without it.

It's sort of like saying sea bands (which I swear by) work when I don't really know if I would have gotten seasick. But maybe someone who has been cruising, felt symptoms and took it, could report whether it helped. That would be really good information to have.

[OCruisers]

[b]Just what busy working/family folks have time for. The last week before vacation is always so hectic for everyone. Sitting in their doctor's office waiting room (probably being exposed to who knows what) is just what they are going to put up with!!.

So agree with S7S! :eek: Who knows WHAT we might get sitting in the waiting room with sick folks! :eek:

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[bepsf]

Brian, isn't more of a risk to have someone on the serving line handle your plate? Usually the people behind the line at the buffet are not in close proximity with the food except when they replinish the items. What do you think?

Ruffin

Greater risk? Not at all! 3-4 people with clean hands handling plates behind the counter is much preferable to hundreds of folks (w/ questionable sanitation) using the same tongs. That's why HAL goes that route when they have an outbreak.

Bear in mind, everyone - Norovirus isn't something new. It's only been since large ships have been shuttling thousands of passengers around and serving food buffet-style that we've had sizable outbreaks aboard ship. (...and CDC/Media coverage telling us about it.) I'd be willing to bet that if the lines went back to serving meals properly - non-buffet style - that we wouldn't have half the communication rate. I'd also bank that any outbreaks occuring pre-2002 was attributed to "seasickness"...

[OCruisers]

There are a few medications such as Airbourne and Zicam (there may be others) which are designed to ward off viruses. You take them either before or at the very first sign of gettingill) I don't know if they would work for this, but I know many people who use Airbourne (designed by a school teacher I've read due to all the passing of illnesses by children) before going on planes and ships. They swear by it. Of course, we can never be positive it's the use of this medication that kept them from getting sick, but what harm could it possibly do? Just one more precaution we can take along with washing hands (mandatory and often) and sanitizers. Personally I do not support sanitizers and anti-bacterial soaps since we are slowly destroying our natural immune system by their overuse ... however I do use the ship's sanitizers in dining areas for the safty of my fellow passengers).

Heather .... Your comments made me smile! Glad to know someone else also rather use hot water and soap (because over use of anti-bacteral solutions will destroy our natural immunity)... but still uses the ship's sanitizers as well on cruises just because it's there and expected. :rolleyes:

Didn't take Airbourne, etc. BUT did another thing ... which may/may not have helped: When we boarded Veendam for the 1/15 sailing, I doubled my daily doses of Vitiman C & E. My DH became ill and I didn't. Don't know if this helped ... but ... like you said ... it did no harm! Who knows? :confused:

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[anniecat]

I'm in the camp of anti antibacterial soaps (although I do use them after cleaning the cat box ;) ) but if you look at the ingredient list on Purell and other sanitizers...they are mostly alcohol. safe, works, and can't cause mutuation of bacteria/viruses as anti-bacterial soap could/might. I work in a hospital and use sanitizers all day long...and at home/shopping etc. I don't get sick with colds flu etc except after being kissed by my 5 year old nephews...after each time I get a cold :p maybe I should wipe them off with purell first ;)
anyway, I'm taking lots of purell on our upcoming cruise and will watch what I touch..but won't bring my own fork from home :rolleyes:
wish me luck :D

[maddie404]

This is what we have been doing.....

WASH YOUR HANDS, and don't touch eyes, mouth, nose, or any opening in your skin. Takes 15-20 seconds to wash hands thoroughly (sing "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star",) dry hands w/ paper towel, turn off faucets w/ towel & open door w/ towel. Don't share utensils!!! Use a paper napkin in the Lido line when touching a serving utensil. Use your knuckle to push elevator buttons! Don't touch handrails w/ bare hands; if you do, wash your hands right after. Every room has tissues....use them to get around the ship if you must touch handrails, door handles, etc.

Six of us were on a 16-day cruise with an outbreak of something. We did not get sick b/c we did the above. We also bring daily multi-vitamins to make sure we get our daily minimum requirements (it is a cruise & we do have fun) & Vitamin C to help our immune system since we ask it to work overtime. I use ZICAM too at the first sign of feeling ill.

[sail7seas]

This is what we have been doing.....

WASH YOUR HANDS, and don't touch eyes, mouth, nose, or any opening in your skin. Takes 15-20 seconds to wash hands thoroughly (sing "Twinkle, Twinkle Little Star",) dry hands w/ paper towel, turn off faucets w/ towel & open door w/ towel. Don't share utensils!!! Use a paper napkin in the Lido line when touching a serving utensil. Use your knuckle to push elevator buttons! Don't touch handrails w/ bare hands; if you do, wash your hands right after. Every room has tissues....use them to get around the ship if you must touch handrails, door handles, etc.



Did all of that. Didn't help. Got NLV anyway. In the past I avoided it; this time it got me!!!

Do all that has been suggested and then hope for the best. No matter how careful you are.....anyone call still catch it. If I did; anyone can. DH did not. We were side by side doing all the same things just about every minute of every day.

[sandij]

It would be a real shame to mess up a cruise. We always take vitamins and travel with Purell or Germ X ( I keep a bottle on my desk at work, every other person is sneezing or coughing) but just in case I also bring along some Immodium and Pepto. Might as well be prepared and fight it early.

[smidge]

We are going on the Volendam 3/20. My husband and I have been on 2 other cruises but never been sick. Everyone has a lot of suggestions which I'm certainly going to use. Of course we alsways do the handwash thing and watch the public surfaces we touch. We also never eat in the buffet style restaurants. We either have room service or use the sitdown restaurants. Taking the vitamin c and using the preventative medication beforehand is certainly a good idea which we've never thought of. That's a good tip. Thanks to all who suggested it.

A lot of the hype about the virus reminds me of the situation about SARS in Toronto a couple of years ago. I'm not minimizing the possible effects of the illness but I remember the media coverage had people bordering on hysteria. I teach in a northern town in BC and was slotted to fly into Toronto to my son's university graduation. There were people who thought I shouldn't go because I might bring back SARS to our community. It was totally irrational.

As someone mentioned, common sense goes a long ways. Take precautions and if you do get sick on board have the sense to quarantine yourself until you are better. It sounds like a lot of people did get sick but I think the thing to remember is a lot of people didn't sick and had a great time.