Holland America vs Princess

[CruiseFever]

Is there anyone who has sailed both who can compare them noting differences and similarities? Particularly, would I tend to find an older average age passenger on one or the other and if so would they be stereotypically "boring" or "fun" to cruise with?

I posted a similar question on the Princess board and it was suggested that I post here as well.

Thanks to anyone who can reply.

[jhannah]

Good to see you, Chris. I have sailed both, and each is a fine product. I find HAL to be a bit more refined (if that's the word) than Princess. HAL's cabins are a bit larger than industry standard. Fresh flowers are everywhere. The ambiance is just a little more upscale.

We always have fun on Holland America ships. There is a strong stereotype that HAL ships are floating nursing homes. While HAL's demographics are probably a little older overall, our Panama Canal sailing on board the Coral Princess was the "oldest" cruise we've been on. Holland America is in the midst of a Signature of Excellence program that, among other things, really beefs up their youth/teen areas and programs. They are trying to attract more families.

As I said, HAL and Princess are both fine products. Since the cruising experience is so subjective, each of us would find some things better on one line than the other. But as a whole I don't think anyone would be disappointed sailing either.

[Tak8]

We did the Zuiderdam 2 years ago and Golden last year. Liked them both and would sail both again. The Zuiderdam itinerary inlcuding Tortola has us back on the Z this summer. Passengers on both lines were friendly. Holland was a slightly older crowd, both still a good mix of people. Food was good on both lines. I preferred some of the princess dishes better, but liked the Lido buffet on Holland. I would look at pricing and itinerary.

[Charliesmom]

We are long time Princess fans who sailed on HAL in December for the first time.

We were on the Westerdam, which as a Vista ship is not typical of the HAL ships. The ship was not as pretty as the Princess ships, but there were many aspects of it we liked a lot.

First, the quality of the food was top-notch. The meals tend more to red meat than fish. Princess has far more fish selections on its menus. The Lido on the Westerdam had a better luncheon selection than the Horizon Court. I was particularly impressed by the quality of the salads. They had mesclun greens every day at lunch. They also served different pates on several of the days. They almost always have smoked salmon, too. They have an Italian section to get Italian food, they frequently had Asian food which was heavily spiced (and I couldn't eat it) and they have a wonderful dessert selection including ice cream. Coffee is available 24 hours day. They use less garlic in the cooking on HAL, than on Princess. I missed it.

We were in an aft S suite, which was very inexpensive for the accommodations. December, before Christmas, is a good time to get good deals. We had a lovely wrap-around balcony. HAL has the Neptune lounge for S and PH suites. They lounge has a concierge. They serve continental breakfast, small luncheon sandwiches and hors d'oeuvres before dinner in the Neptune lounge and they have a coffee machine that makes cappucino and expresso all day long. The concierge takes care of all problems and makes reservations for you. We also got free laundry, which is a mixed blessing. I noticed that the colors faded on my clothes a bit. Princess has self-service laundromats. The Vista class ships do not.

The suites are a large, single room versus Princess suites which are two rooms. Our bathroom had double sinks, a whirlpool tub and a stall shower. The foyer to the bathroom was a dressing room with closets and a vanity. There were also closets in the room. We had much more closet space than we needed.

We usually travel on Princess in the Sun Class ships in a mini-suite, which is two separate rooms with a small balcony. These rooms have whirlpool tubs, stall showers and a separate toilet/washroom. As Platinum Captain's Club members, we get free internet, which we did not get on HAL.

Entertainment was about on a par. What was nice about HAL was that we did not have to fight or arrive terribly early to get seats to the shows.

We did not go on any ships tours, so I cannot comment on that. One of the tours that our table mates went on was an eco tour of the lagoon at Half Moon Key which they liked a lot.

We had an excellent room steward who was very inobtrusive. If we needed service, we called the concierge who sent the appropriate person. It was unusual to find room stewards in the hallways.

HAL still has wine stewards. Ours started out not-so-good, but she improved after the first couple of days. Our waiters were good, but rushed. I have food allergies and on Princess the Head Waiters were super-terrific about taking care of them. On HAL, they were okay, but I didn't get that extra special service I had on Princess. In the past, the head waiters would have special food made for me. They always got good tips. Surprisingly, on the last night on the Westerdam the head waiter did not come to our table and never got his tip.

We play Trivia a lot. I would say the Trivia games were comparable.

There seem to be more entertainment venues on HAL. There was the Crows Nest, the disco, the piano bar and the Explorers Lounge. We had dinner one night in the Pinnacle Grill, sat in the outside portion (near the atrium, and were able to hear music coming from a lower part of the atrium which was very pleasant. The food and service in the Pinnacle Grill were outstanding.

The atrium on the Princess ships is much nicer than the Westerdam. The shops on the Princess ships are nicer and have better merchandise, although we thought some of the liqueur prices were very good.

We liked our HAL cruise so much that we have booked again for next December in the same time frame. We thought we had an excellent value for the money.

If you need to know any more, please let me know.

Roberta


Our table mates, who have been on other HAL ships, were disappointed with the size of their S suite. Another tablemate, who was in a balcony suite, subsequently sailed on the Sun Princess and was disappointed with the service and the room, which she said was tiny. Balcony suites on HAL have tubs in the bathroom and they have sitting areas, which Princess does not have.

[KAJOKG]

Hi Chris - Ditto JHannah and CharliesMom. They pretty much explained the difference. I try to explain that Princess is "perkier" than HAL, but HAL is laid back and comfortable. I love the Volendam. It's such a comfortable ship, quiet in decor but with gorgeous floral arrangements all over the ship. I like the Verandah suites on this ship....balconies are covered and very private. I much prefer PC dining on Princess, but HAL is trying to offer something for those of us who do not like traditiional dining. TheLido buffet at dinner has
tables set with linens and dinnerware. You go through a buffet line and take your soup and appetizers then order the entree from a menu.Waiters carry your tray to the table and serve your entree when it is ready. As for entertainment, some good, some just ok just like on Princess. Although I did see the best production show of any on the Volendam. Also, HAL has an afternoon program put on the CD crew called "Sea Quest" and it is wild and crazy, and much fun. Food and service is a tad above Princess. Overall, the passengers are older than on most Princess ships. HAL has very, very loyal clients. Chris, if you haven't taken HAL before, try it once. I think you will like it. And the line is attempting to attract younger passengers with some new programs. It's a great cruise to kick back and relax on. From what I hear, the Zuiderdam is much like the Caribbean Princess, with 7 day cruises.

[Charliesmom]

An addendum to my long comparison.

1. On HAL laundry is free only if you are in a suite. Otherwise, you can stuff the laundry bag and have it done for $12.00 (at least you could on our cruise).

2. The bed on the Westerdam was heavenly - much like the beds that the Westin and Sheratons now have. It was much nicer than any bed I have had on any other ship.

Roberta

[Sunnystone]

HAL has generally larger cabins and a more austern officers (from the Netherlands areas). There is more formality on HAL as opposed to Princess who has predominantly English and Italian officers.
However, both are owned by Carnival and it shows.
Our last cruise on the Westerdam, for our honeymoon, was a complete disaster. Food was generally awful and was unavailable, except limited room service, after 12am and between 3-6pm. How many cruises do you know where the majority of the passengers were in restuarants in all the ports? Our bathroom in our suite did not work for 3 of the 7 days and we were forced to go the toilets two decks below. Granted, it was November of 2001, but it really was no excuse. We all felt horribly for the crew who tried as hard as they could but to no avail. I had never seen crew members cry before. Whe I complained to Carnival after the cruise, they could have cared less. It was seven months before we got any response which consisted of a $500 voucher to use on a future HAL cruise. It went into the garbage and we never intend to cruise anything Carvival owned again.
Just as a note, we had cruised 3 times before on HAL and were platinum level for Princess prior to the sale. We now cruise on lines who care about their crews and their passengers.

[CruiseFever]

"...We now cruise on lines who care about their crews and their passengers"

Which lines are those?

[heyabbott]

An addendum to my long comparison.

1. On HAL laundry is free only if you are in a suite. Otherwise, you can stuff the laundry bag and have it done for $12.00 (at least you could on our cruise).

2. The bed on the Westerdam was heavenly - much like the beds that the Westin and Sheratons now have. It was much nicer than any bed I have had on any other ship.

Roberta

What's the turnaround time for a bag of laundry?

[KAKcruiser]

I see a big difference in the dining room between HAL and Princess. Princess, like every cruise line except for HAL, has tables crowded together so tightly that you can hardly back up in your chair. There is always plenty of room in the HAL dining rooms.

[KAJOKG]

Our last cruise on the Westerdam, for our honeymoon, was a complete disaster. Food was generally awful and was unavailable, except limited room service, after 12am and between 3-6pm. How many cruises do you know where the majority of the passengers were in restuarants in all the ports? Our bathroom in our suite did not work for 3 of the 7 days and we were forced to go the toilets two decks below. Granted, it was November of 2001, but it really was no excuse. We all felt horribly for the crew who tried as hard as they could but to no avail. I had never seen crew members cry before. .

We have been on 3 HAL cruises since 2002 and have not had an experience such as you describe....not even close! Perhaps it was in the time period Carnival was purchasing HAL? On all of our 3 cruises with the line the food was great, the service was exemplary, and everything worked just fine. I would caution readers to remember that the unfortunate experience Sunnystone had was over 4 years ago.

[dakrewser]

Food was generally awful and was unavailable, except limited room service, after 12am and between 3-6pm.

Can you go into a bit of detail about the "awful" food? Most people, even those who hated their cruise, found the food to be very good. Very few HAL cruisers are awake between midnight and 6, so there's little need for food service outside of room service. You are wrong, though, about the "no food between 3 and 6 PM" (did you look in the Lido? All of the food stations? Out by the pool? Hors d'ouerves plates in the lounges?). And what were you expecting from the room service menu?

How many cruises do you know where the majority of the passengers were in restuarants in all the ports?
Almost every cruise I've ever taken, on multiple lines. Why intrerrupt a lovely day in port to get back to the ship for lunch?

Our bathroom in our suite did not work for 3 of the 7 days and we were forced to go the toilets two decks below. Granted, it was November of 2001, but it really was no excuse. We all felt horribly for the crew who tried as hard as they could but to no avail.
If the crew couldn't fix the problem (and plumbing is one of the things they do well) were you expecting someone to fly out from Seattle to do it? Perhaps jump from a helicopter? Was it just your toilet (I suspect) or the whole deck? Was November of 2001 a particularly bad month for plumbing?

When I complained to Carnival after the cruise, they could have cared less.
I'm sure they could have cared less. You probably meant to say they couldn't care less. But why should they? It wasn't a Carnival ship. While the Carnival Corp. owns multiple lines, each is independently operated.

We now cruise on lines who care about their crews and their passengers.

I don't understand the reference to crews here, could you elaborate?

[Arubalisa]

Is there anyone who has sailed both who can compare them noting differences and similarities? Particularly, would I tend to find an older average age passenger on one or the other and if so would they be stereotypically "boring" or "fun" to cruise with?

I posted a similar question on the Princess board and it was suggested that I post here as well.

Thanks to anyone who can reply.DH and I are both in our early 40's, just sailed HAL Zaandam for Christmas and sailed the Golden Princess Thanksgiving 2003.

My 90+ yo grandmother says ALL cruise lines are about the same, but she has never cruised Carnival. My parents have accompanied us on both of our cruises and have sailed Celebrity as well. Given the choice, and what they are able to afford, their first choice is Celebrity. HAL and Princess are tied for second. DH and I would sail either Princess or HAL again.

Only real differences we saw were:

1. HAL stil has fixed dinner seatings, although Lido dining on HAL ships offer the same menu as the dining room, just no need to dress. Food was pretty comparable. Personally preferred the beef on Princess over HAL, but probably just me. DH, thought the offerings of fish were better on Princess. Lido breakfast and lunch on HAL offered more variety and was a notch above Princess.

2. Dinner dress code on HAL, requests men to wear at least a sport jacket on informal evenings, and most men did

3. Definitely, positively an older age clientele, than Princess. HOWEVER, with that being said, you are also going to see a slightly more refined class of passengers. No dancing in the disco until the wee hours, but also pretty easy to find a deck chair around the aft swimming pool (mid-ship lido pool on the Zaandam had more comfortable and thus more highly coveted chairs, as well as a retractable roof when weather was poor). Seems us "youngsters" seemed better able to handle the wind on the back of the ship.

4. Plenty of activities, but of course geared to a more mature audience. There were pool games, but not everyday and not anything outlandish.

5. Private "out islands" were comparable.

6. Balcony on the Zaandam was larger and better maintained than on Princess. Smaller balcony on Princess made for a larger cabin.

[shecruise]

nice website chris. you should add some Holland America cruises to your list. December has some great cruise deals sailing from florida

[RuthC]

Just a quick FYI---

The Westerdam Sunnystone refers to would be the old Westerdam that has since left HAL.
And Carnival was definitely not taking over HAL then. That takeover was completed back in 1989.

[jhannah]

Good catch, Ruth! I hadn't picked up on that. That changes the whole thing. Perhaps Sunnystone should make a contemporary sailing for a better comparison.

[RuthC]

Thanks, Jim. I'm not sure it changes everything since the atmosphere created by the staff and crew, and the food (perhaps) should be similar.
But definitely any plumbing problems aren't for this discussion.

[Johanna7]

Having just returned from our Sydney to Auckland trip with the Sapphire Princess I would give HAL full marks and wish I had known HAL was going to do that route before it was too late to cancel the Princess one.

We have been on about 10 HAL cruises including 4 on the new Zuiderdam and the Oosterdam.

The Z & O are about the same size as the Sapphire and there the similarity ends.

Princess managed to cram in 2700 passengers versus HAL's 1800 or so. HAL has larger cabins for the same categories.

HAL does not charge for Ice Cream and even provides liquers and sprinkles on it.

The LIDO is laid out much better than the Horizon Court. There, it was complete chaos and helter skelter. No lines, just everyone going every which way and bumping into each other. On sea days it was impossible to get a seat.

Sapphire's International dining room has only one entrance and it is very easy to walk into the kitchen by mistake. The lines are not straight but curved and create bottle necks. Far too many tables crammed into the dining room which makes walking to your table impossible when people are in their chairs. Not much (if any) room for the waiters to walk around either.

The main showroom is far too small on the Sapphire to accommodate everyone who wants to see the show. You have to be there at least 20 minutes ahead or you could find it closed. Full. No real balcony there either.

The ports are nice though and fortunately, tenders were not required. A real good thing too as that would have created chaos. As it was, it was bad enough with so many guests.

With the automatic tipping, no vouchers were given to show you had tipped as in other lines. This means that the wait staff would have no knowledge of the fact they were stiffed. The cabin steward would know of course as the envelopes with the final (and only) bills are not sealed.

Disembarkation on Sapphire was a nightmare and we didn't get off the ship until after 11 a.m. and then found that many people were embarking at the same time. Of course they blamed the New Zealand customs for the delay.

One warning about New Zealand; they are obsessive about bringing anything on board that is food related and if you have been to a zoo, an animal park or farm, you had better mention it and they will check your shoes. Another thing, do not buy honey there. Those selling it will assure you that it is sealed and can be brought on board but this is not so. Many people had their honey confiscated. No food can be taken off the ship on tours except for a sealed bottle of water. There are sniffing dogs everywhere.

[OCruisers]

If the crew couldn't fix the problem (and plumbing is one of the things they do well) were you expecting someone to fly out from Seattle to do it? Perhaps jump from a helicopter? Was it just your toilet (I suspect) or the whole deck? Was November of 2001 a particularly bad month for plumbing?

January of 2005 was certainly a BAD month for plumbing on Veendam! We really felt sorry for all the folks in a section of Deck 5 (Main Deck) whose toilets overflowed into the hall! What an odor! :eek: Some were without a working toilet in their cabins for two days!

We were lucky! Ours always took 6 to 10 "pushes of the botton" BUT it never overflowed.

[dakrewser]

January of 2005 was certainly a BAD month for plumbing on Veendam! We really felt sorry for all the folks in a section of Deck 5 (Main Deck) whose toilets overflowed into the hall! What an odor! :eek: Some were without a working toilet in their cabins for two days!

We were lucky! Ours always took 6 to 10 "pushes of the botton" BUT it never overflowed.

We had intermittent problems on the Volendam a year & a half ago, but none at all this year on the Oosterdam. I think we probably had more literate pax (i.e., they read the sign next to the commode! :rolleyes: )

-dave

[Vic The Parrot]

I sailed on the 'old' Westerdam as well.

I don't recall having bad food on that ship.
It was in line with the meals of every other HAL ship in the fleet.

[KAKcruiser]

We sailed 3 times on the old Westerdam and loved it. It had two lido dining rooms, a magnificient movie theater, a great show lounge and another big lounge for parties. The only thing lacking is that the dining room was the old style with only portholes instead of the big picture windows.

[mountainmare]

What's the turnaround time for a bag of laundry?
We just returned from the 13 day transcanal on the Oosterdam. We gave our laudry bag to our room steward by 9pm on day 6 of the cruise and it was returned the morning of day 8. Our friends put their laundry out on day 9 and just got it back in time to pack it. We were in a standard veranda cabin and had plenty of room for our clothes.

Thanks everyone for the comparison. We've been toying with a Med cruise comparing HAL, Celeb and Princess. Think we'll go with HAL or Celeb.

[Sunnystone]

Hello:
I have not been ducking out here, as I really do have some strong feelings, in case it had not showed :) Honestly, I had not been monitoring this thread at all, but it was brought to my attention last night by another CC poster, so here I am.
I'll try to address the points in the posts:
1. Thanks to the poster who corrected my grammar. Yes, this is not a strong suit of mine and I should have checked it better. Still, I believe you understood the message, "Carnival couldn't have cared less". For clarification, I had spoken with HAL, after the cruise in question, which stated that I needed to bring my concerns to their parent as they could not address our issues except to offer an apology. That is where Carnival got involved and that is who sent the voucher.
2. Did I expect a repair crew to be flown in from Seattle? Please be a bit more tolerant. I was on my honeymoon, in a suite. Not an inexpensive, nor run of the mill occasion. I did expect that the problem would be fixed or we would be moved to a different room. I do not think that is unreasonable. As I recall, others were having problems, but it was not the whole deck or anything that widespread.
3. Food was consistently cold and not at all like any other cruise I have ever been on. Those of us at late seating were told regularly, that certain menu items were unavailable as they had "run out". There was no lido deck food during certain hours. This was 2 months after 9/11 and Carnival was in a "knee-jerk" reaction and had cut staff. We were told this by the Cruise Director and two of the Senior Officers.
4. Please understand, I have all the respect and admiration for the crew on this ship as I witnessed many passengers screaming at staff. The crew were visibly, both mentally and physically exhausted. This was not a pretty cruise. Through it all, the crew was as understanding as they could be, although I did witness crew members crying. This is something I have never seen before, nor since, thank goodness.
5. Many of the staff were very open about what the parent company was doing; cutting staff, not ordering enough supplies, etc. It was very disturbing.
6. Anyone who has been to the private island will want to try to picture 3 ships all being there at once. We "enjoyed" that also. They ran out of food and drinks on the island, by noon, and the lines were longer than I have ever seen.
7. Stabilizers were not used during the cruise. We were told a number of things such as, "they were broken", "they were on", "they caused increased fuel consumption and so were not being used", and "we don't have stabilizers on this ship". Regardless, it was a rocky voyage whichever way you look at it.

In short, it was a horrific cruise, but the worst part was dealing with the non-caring corporation. Basically their attitude was "you paid for a cruise, we gave you a cruise". With that motto in mind, we decided to never patronize anything Carnival owned again, nor would we speak "fondly" of them.
An old friend of mine, who was a Captain on Princess, told us, after the sale, not to come back. He suggested that we hold onto our fond memories of how things were, not how they were becoming. A wise man whose advice we followed. We now cruise on Celebrity, Crystal and will be trying Oceania.
I am very pleased that many people continue to enjoy HAL and Princess, cruises should be enjoyable.

[KruzNutty]

I liked both lines but I prefer and am now sticking with HAL for these reasons. I'm also comparing the Zuiderdam and the Star Princess.

On the Zuiderdam:
Entertainment was much better. (my opinion only folks)

The lido buffet was much better on HAL because: they have omelet stations so you can get exactly the type you want each day and the Star didn't; the entire lay-out of buffet was easier to navigate and was uncrowded versus that on the Star; they offer more selections on deserts; they offer lemonade free anytime; they offer ice cream with toppings for free; they have a Deli section where you can get great sandwiches every day at lunch if you don't like any thing on the buffet; they give you trays to carry your food on whereas on the Star you only get your plate (I mean come on, why not let people use trays); on the Zuiderdam they also have a taco/nachos bar where you can get these as well as the hamburgers or pizza.

The beds and pillows were very hard on the Star but very comfortable on the the Zuiderdam.

I liked the promenade deck on the HAL because it was wider with wood lounge chair and cushions to sit on if you choose. I also liked these wood chairs which are located around the upper decks versus the cheap plastic chairs on the Star.

I also liked the furniture on the balcony of the Zuiderdam versus the Star. On the Zuiderdam if was imitation wicker but was more comfortable then the cheap plastic furniture on the Star.

I liked the fact that on the Zuiderdam they have towel bins around the deck so that you can grab a towel any time or more than one if you need it while on the upper sun decks. On the Star they give you (1) in your cabin and you have to ask for more if you want extra. They also have shower stations on the Zuiderdam on the sun decks so that you can rinse off quickly and cool down if you want and this wasn't available on the Star.

I thought the dining room food and service was better on the Zuiderdam. We did the personal choice dining and it seemed like a good idea but turned out to be a failure for us. (again - just my opinion)

The Star is a beautiful ship but I also think the Zuiderdam is too. I believe you get what you pay for and for some reason we felt like on the Star they were trying to be cheap in many areas whereas on the Zuiderdam we didn't feel that way at all. On HAL it just seemed like first class all the way including the elegant leather furniture all over the ship.

We've sailed six times and most of the major lines, and now we're sticking with HAL. It's a great line with great ships and wonderful service. I think we've found a home! haha

[jemingway]

Chris, I'm going on HAL on Tuesday, so soon I will be able to answer your question.;)

[CruiseFever]

Oh I can't wait to hear what you think.....I got more special offers in the mail today. I've also been quite impressed with all the great responses to this thread and the demeanor of those responding.

I bet your cruise will be fabulous.

[jemingway]

Thanks, Chris. It's only 4 days on the Zuiderdam, but I will compare it to the Caribbean Princess for you.;)

[Kylie]

Chris - I think you would LOVE a cabana on Half Moon Cay. What a great way to spend a day on the beach.