Code red--3 days for each part of a Back to Back?

[calteacher]

We're considering taking a 14-day Caribbean cruise which is also sold as two separate cruises for a B-B. I know that the first three days are always in "code red". Does that mean that we will be in code red six of the 14 days we are cruising?

[Jemima]

Yes, but it is two days rather than three.

[stever]

Code orange is the first 2 days of each cruise as a precaution.

Code red (I believe) if when the Noro virus was or is observed on board.

[CrusinAgain]

Actually after seeing some people not use the sanitizers and others things, I would prefer for them to place the food on my plate for the entire cruise.

[Krazy Kruizers]

On our recent back-to-back cruises -- also sold as a Collector's Cruise -- the first 2 days of each cruise the ship was in Code Orange.

[a1linz]

what does code red and orange mean please? I have never heard of this.

[Stevesan]

what does code red and orange mean please? I have never heard of this.

Don't know about "Orange", but Red is declared when X number (25, I think) of passengers exhibit symptoms that may be norovirus. The first step is the crew deep cleaning the ship, followed by enhanced sanitary procedures. if there are no other cases after three consecutive days, code Red is taken down and the ship returns to normal procedures.

[jtl513]

... but Red is declared when X number (25, I think) of passengers exhibit symptoms that may be norovirus. It's not the same number for all ships, it's a percentage ... 3%, I think, when it has to be reported to the CDC ... but I believe the Captain can choose to declare a Code Red when the number is still below that.

[CruiserBruce]

It's not the same number for all ships, it's a percentage ... 3%, I think, when it has to be reported to the CDC ... but I believe the Captain can choose to declare a Code Red when the number is still below that.

I agree. I think Code Red is declared before that 3% threshold, in hopes of stopping the spread before it reaches 3%.

Code Orange is 48 hours after each sailing. It is limited "hands on" in the Lido area- you can't serve yourself. Otherwise it is normal operations in all other areas.

[Krazy Kruizers]

what does code red and orange mean please? I have never heard of this.

Code Orange is what HAL isusing the first 48 hours on all ships in the hopes of preventing the Noro Virus. This usually affects the Lido area where you can not serve yourself. Helpers will dish everything out on your plates/bowls and pour your iced tea, waters, coffees, juices, etc.

Code Red -- when there is a certain percentage of passengers -- around 3% -- who have come down with this gastro virus -- a lot happens on the ship. Once the again the Lido is no longer self service. No salt and pepper -- just hand you packets. No bread baskets or butter on the dining room tables (and other restaurants) -- the servers place things on your plates. The swimming pools and whirl pools are closed down. The library is closed down. We have even been on ships when the spa, gym and salon were closed down. A lot of activities are discontinued for a while.

We have been on quite a few ships when they were in Code Red or went into Code Red during the cruise.

[lakemurraykid]

To voice my opinion, I'm glad they go to Code Orange the first couple of days for a cruise. If it helps prevent people from becoming ill with Noro, I'm all for Code Orange. It doesn't bother me one little bit. But, I have to also add that I just do not understand why people will not use the hand sanitizer. Is it stupidity or they just don't care. I think if they're not willing to use, they shouldn't be allowed to eat on the Lido. You just never know where those hands have been. :eek:

[sail7seas]

Maybe I'm oblivious but I have never seen or heard any guest refuse to use hand sanitizer. Been on a lot of cruises, a lot of days since they started placing them everywhere and each time a steward has stood at the entry to dining room or Lido dispensing it, everyone has used it.

[jtl513]

You may see me decline to use the steward's sanitizer on occasion if I have just thoroughly washed my hands or used my own sanitizer a few seconds before ... :)

[silverado44]

what does code red and orange mean please? I have never heard of this.


Code Red is also a delicious soft drink, from the makers of Mountain Dew.:D:D

[Alegria-Paz]

They probably washed their hands with soap and water before entering the dining room.

Using soap and water is more than effective ~ some studies show that soap and water are equally as effective ... most studies show that soap and water are more effective than hand sanitizers at killing harmful bacteria.

Hand sanitizers have the added problem of potentially creating antibiotic resistant microbes / super bugs (as some studies show). I've read that potential for creating antibiotic resistant microbes increases with the incorrect or overuse of hand sanitizers.

In sum, soap and water are still better than hand sanitizers for eliminating harmful bacteria and do not carry the risk of antibiotic resistance.

This may be why people do not use them in the dining room, but prefer to wash their hands with soap and water instead.

[Alegria-Paz]

From the Washington Post (April 2010):

"In a letter to a congressman that was obtained by The Washington Post, the FDA said that recent scientific studies raise questions about whether triclosan disrupts the body's endocrine system and whether it helps to create bacteria that are resistant to antibiotics. An advisory panel to the FDA said in 2005 that there was no evidence the antibacterial soaps work better than regular soap and water."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2010/04/07/AR2010040704621.html

[K2DangerGirl]

Note that ALCOHOL BASED hand sanitizers (like Purell) do not contribute to antibiotic-resistant microbes, because as the name might imply, they do not rely on antibiotics. Triclosan-based sanitizers and triclosan-infused products are the ones that concern scientists.

[Alegria-Paz]

My understanding is that alcohol-based sanitizers have over 60% alcohol content then they may be as effective as hand-washing (some reports say 65%). If it has less than 60% alcohol content, you are just spreading the germs around.

It's also not clear to me that alcohol-based sanitizers do not cause bacterial resistance (especially in cases of incorrect or overuse).

Washing your hands does kill harmful bacteria... so why bother with the alcohol? (which may or may not work).

I've read (per the CDC) that hand sanitizers with over 60% alcohol content should be used as a back-up... only if soap and water are not available.

Soap and water are still the most effective at killing harmful bacteria.

If you want to prevent the spread of germs, wash your hands.

From the NY Times: http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/21/health/21cons.html?ex=1300597200&en=4c709a1231d266bf&ei=5088&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss

[Krazy Kruizers]

Maybe I'm oblivious but I have never seen or heard any guest refuse to use hand sanitizer. Been on a lot of cruises, a lot of days since they started placing them everywhere and each time a steward has stood at the entry to dining room or Lido dispensing it, everyone has used it.


On our recent Ryndam cruises we noticed very few people using the hand sanitizers.

And there was no one standing at the entrance to the dining room or Lido dispensing it. The machines were off to one side.

[CaliforniaAC]

I guess nobody but me saw the story on 60 Minutes last Sunday on hand washing, and the use of hand sanitizers.

Anyway...

This is our protocol on the ship-

We wash our hands when we return to the cabin. We wash our hands before we leave. We use the hand sanitizers before entering the dining areas, and if we leave and return to the dining areas, we use it again. We have hand sanitizer with us, which we use in the ports, because sometimes soap and water is not available, and we'd like to clean our hands before we eat, etc.

Is one better than the other? Who knows. I just want to keep my hands clean:)

[CrusinAgain]

I guess nobody but me saw the story on 60 Minutes last Sunday on hand washing, and the use of hand sanitizers.

Anyway...

This is our protocol on the ship-

We wash our hands when we return to the cabin. We wash our hands before we leave. We use the hand sanitizers before entering the dining areas, and if we leave and return to the dining areas, we use it again. We have hand sanitizer with us, which we use in the ports, because sometimes soap and water is not available, and we'd like to clean our hands before we eat, etc.

Is one better than the other? Who knows. I just want to keep my hands clean:)

I did miss that episode but we do exactly as you do. We even take a germ wipe that has 62 percent alcohol in it to the main dining room and use it after we touch the menus or having going thru the buffet after touching the utensils. I don't think one can ever take too much precaution and one bout with the NoroVirus was enough for me.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I guess nobody but me saw the story on 60 Minutes last Sunday on hand washing, and the use of hand sanitizers.

Anyway...

This is our protocol on the ship-

We wash our hands when we return to the cabin. We wash our hands before we leave. We use the hand sanitizers before entering the dining areas, and if we leave and return to the dining areas, we use it again. We have hand sanitizer with us, which we use in the ports, because sometimes soap and water is not available, and we'd like to clean our hands before we eat, etc.

Is one better than the other? Who knows. I just want to keep my hands clean:)

Missed that report.

But we are like you -- I carry my hand sanitizer to the dining room as the Purell that the ships use dry out my hands. One time it was so bad that my hands began to bleed and I ended up in the nurse's office -- this was years ago. She informed me that I needed to use the hand sanitizers that have Aloe in it -- which the ships don't buy.

So since then I carry my own.

[rochelle_s]

Things that make you go hmmmm....

The majority of the time the first day of a cruise is at sea. You can't go for a swim or a hot tub, both of which should be chlorinated. You can't take a book from the library which might not have been picked up by another person in a years time.....but you can go to the casino and spend money (cash even) touching a machine, cards or chips that have been touched by others numerous times.

just sayin'

Rochelle

[dot73]

The two-day code orange doesn't interfere with my enjoyment of the cruise and as far as I'm concerned, all unwrapped food should be given out by the crew. I have seen people in the Lido pick up a bun or piece of bread with their hands, change their mind and put it back. On my last cruise, I, and a couple of other passengers washing our hands, were shocked to see a "lady" leave the public toilet in a hurry without washing her hands. She just couldn't wait for a sink to become open. You can try and protect yourself as much as you can, but as long as there are selfish and thoughtless people on board that will not make the time and the effort to wash their hands thoroughly, noro virus will happen. I think the ships are doing their best to control the virus. Sick and unhappy passengers do not spend money on board, so it is in their interest to confine the virus as best as they can.

[BumperII]

Folks, I had the privilege of catching that noro virus once, but it didn't manifest itself until I got home. A lady on the plane became very ill and within a few days I did too.

Trust me: YOU DON'T WANT IT!!!!!

The secret is frequent handwashing. On board, we have washed hands probably fifteen or twenty times a day ever since. That means before and after bathroom and every time we go by a public wash room and every time we go by the private washroom on the way in and the way out of our cabin. It is just too easy, and it only takes a minute. I even carry a paper towel so I don't have to touch doorknobs.:o

[CruiserBruce]

Things that make you go hmmmm....

The majority of the time the first day of a cruise is at sea. You can't go for a swim or a hot tub, both of which should be chlorinated. You can't take a book from the library which might not have been picked up by another person in a years time.....but you can go to the casino and spend money (cash even) touching a machine, cards or chips that have been touched by others numerous times.

just sayin'

Rochelle

In Code Orange- the first 48 hours, you can swim and use the hot tubs. I don't know about the library/book issue. My experience with Code Orange (two 10 day Med B2B, this last August), is the only limitations for the first 48 hours are in the Lido Buffet, where you can't serve yourself.

[ariawoman]

The hand sanitizer on the ship was rumored to remove nail polish....someone in the hot tub told me his wife had gotten a manicure in the spa and later used the sanitizer and the polish came off...

So, that's an interesting testiment to what's in the stuff HAL uses lol.

[durangoscots]

In Code Orange- the first 48 hours, you can swim and use the hot tubs. I don't know about the library/book issue. My experience with Code Orange (two 10 day Med B2B, this last August), is the only limitations for the first 48 hours are in the Lido Buffet, where you can't serve yourself.

Library is open and operating. The only restrictions are in the Lido food lines. Washing, use of sanitizers and Keeping Your Hands Away from Your Face will help. I don't eat any finger food in including appetizers. It is those hands!!!!!

Susan

[rochelle_s]

In Code Orange- the first 48 hours, you can swim and use the hot tubs. I don't know about the library/book issue. My experience with Code Orange (two 10 day Med B2B, this last August), is the only limitations for the first 48 hours are in the Lido Buffet, where you can't serve yourself.

Thanks for the clarification I obviously misread what was posted earlier. Do they close the casino during a code red?

Rochelle

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thanks for the clarification I obviously misread what was posted earlier. Do they close the casino during a code red?

Rochelle

Code Orange -- No

Code Red -- a couple of times when we went into Code Red during the cruise the Casino was closed while they cleaned everything down -- all the chips had to be hand washed. Once that process was completed -- the casino reopened and you could wear deposible gloves to handle the cards and chips and money. This will vary ship by ship.

[Hlitner]

Don't know what they said on 60 minutes, but we had a CDC physician (on board a RCI ship training crew) tell us that the alcohol-based sanitizers (such as Purell) are nearly worthless against Norovirus. He said the only effective prevention is washing hands with soap and water and not touching anything. The hand sanitzers do a good job against bacteria, but very little against viruses.

Han

[ssneiderma]

Having been on more than 50 cruises on diferent lines ,it seeems that only HAL has this code orange or red the first few days of their cruises. Why HAL? Just off Nieuw Amsterdam..the first few days not only in Lido but dining room, library etc. Pools were open but not hot tubs. Feel we were cheated out of 3 days of ship use. Out of a 7 days cruise this doesn't have many days left. The only time my DH and got virus was on a HAL ship.

[RuthC]

Having been on more than 50 cruises on diferent lines ,it seeems that only HAL has this code orange or red the first few days of their cruises. Why HAL? Just off Nieuw Amsterdam..the first few days not only in Lido but dining room, library etc. Pools were open but not hot tubs. Feel we were cheated out of 3 days of ship use. Out of a 7 days cruise this doesn't have many days left. The only time my DH and got virus was on a HAL ship.
Standard Operating Procedure on HAL is to have Code Orange at the beginning of every cruise as a proactive measure to reduce the spread of disease.

Your cruise started with the stricter Code Red procedures as the ship had experienced Norovirus on the previous cruise. Had the previous cruise not had the illness, your cruise would have started with Code Orange. Had your cruise later on had norovirus rear it's ugly head, the ship would have moved to Code Red status.
That's no fun for anyone, but it is necessary.

[Stevesan]

It's not the same number for all ships, it's a percentage ... 3%, I think, when it has to be reported to the CDC ... but I believe the Captain can choose to declare a Code Red when the number is still below that.

My last Maasdam cruise the captain did exactly that. There were only twelve noro-like cases on the previous cruise, but he declared Code Red out of precaution. The only inconvenience was delayed boarding while the crew did a "deep" cleaning. I was happy to wait while they did that. :p

I like the "servers only" procedure at Lido buffet. That should be standard practice.

[stag]

This is our protocol on the ship-

We wash our hands when we return to the cabin. We wash our hands before we leave. We use the hand sanitizers before entering the dining areas, and if we leave and return to the dining areas, we use it again. We have hand sanitizer with us, which we use in the ports, because sometimes soap and water is not available, and we'd like to clean our hands before we eat, etc.

Is one better than the other? Who knows. I just want to keep my hands clean:)
We use the similar strategy. In several dozens of cruises, I never get stomach related illness. We not only make sure our hands are clean but also avoid cross contamination. We saw a guy licked all fingers and picked up the menu. Since then, we apply hand sanitizer after ordering our food.

[Juanita462]

Some good tips here - especially about cleaning our hands after handling the menu.

I also take plastic and cotton gloves wih me for code red situations.

I don't agree that they should always serve guests in the Lido - they always give me way too much even when I ask for a small portion - then when I leave the extra on my plate - people look at it and think I take more than I can eat - you can read their expressions.

whenn we travelled in Portugal we found restaurants that had sinks, soap and paper towels near the tables where guests washed up before sitting down to dine. thought that was an excellent system.

[Jemima]

This month the Statendam was in code red a couple of days mid-cruise. (It was also in code orange the first two days.) In addition to restrictions previously mentioned, self-service laundries were closed and there were no napkins or flatware on the lido tables during code red. We didn't eat in the MDR so don't know what was done there. I heard that the number ill was very low.

[cruisecrasy]

Things that make you go hmmmm....

The majority of the time the first day of a cruise is at sea. You can't go for a swim or a hot tub, both of which should be chlorinated. You can't take a book from the library which might not have been picked up by another person in a years time.....but you can go to the casino and spend money (cash even) touching a machine, cards or chips that have been touched by others numerous times.

just sayin'

Rochelle

U aren't supposed to notice or mention the cruiseline makin' money :D

[cruisecrasy]

[B]I like the "servers only" procedure at Lido buffet. That should be standard practice.
Unfortunately, while I agree also, the cruisefares wld have to go up 'cause more staff wld be needed.

They already use the PG staff for those days and close the PG so suite pax don't get their breakfast perk (at least thats the reason given) :(

[cruisecrasy]

That's no fun for anyone, but it is necessary.

Curious but I want to know where this all started - never experienced the virus problem until recently - never had Code anything onboard ships not that many yrs back?

Sad 'cause sure takes away the fun of travelling & esp of a cruise what with 'Code' this or that, security fiascos..(w/ airports in particular) & even bed bugs!!!

Sorry but this is one instance when the past is preferable...IMO anyway!! :(

[Marie321]

We take wet wipes and wipe our hands thoroughly after we pull the chairs up to sit down and before we begin eating. We get the singles ones. Very handy to keep in a pocket.

[CrusinAgain]

We take wet wipes and wipe our hands thoroughly after we pull the chairs up to sit down and before we begin eating. We get the singles ones. Very handy to keep in a pocket.

Exactly. I use them when I get home also after I leave a public venue.

[DutchByAssociation]

It's not the same number for all ships, it's a percentage ... 3%, I think, when it has to be reported to the CDC ... but I believe the Captain can choose to declare a Code Red when the number is still below that.

The Captain OR Corporate can based on daily reports that are sent to the HQ, but I'm really not at liberty to go more specific than that

[CruiserBruce]

I also take plastic and cotton gloves wih me for code red situations.


I am not sure what benefit cotton gloves would be, unless you were able to wash them very regularly. Cotton is an absorbant material, with microscopically huge places for bad stuff to collect. If you didn't wash them after every wearing, you would simply be re-exposing yourself to what ever you last touched, when you put them on.

[Stevesan]

Curious but I want to know where this all started - never experienced the virus problem until recently - never had Code anything onboard ships not that many yrs back?

Sad 'cause sure takes away the fun of travelling & esp of a cruise what with 'Code' this or that, security fiascos..(w/ airports in particular) & even bed bugs!!!

Sorry but this is one instance when the past is preferable...IMO anyway!! :(

Ignorance is bliss.:D

[Juanita462]

CruiseBruce

The cotton gloves are for the handrails when it is rough or for when we use the stairs - they slide along better than plastic - and yes, I do wash them after every wearing - and wash or purell my hands after removing them.

think about how many people touch those handrails over the course of a day and in code red there could be noro on them plus any other virus going around.

[Koshlong]

We just got back from Veendam's SA repositioning cruise (yes, thank you, it was great) and we had 6 days of code Orange........the 3 days from NYC to Ft. Lauderdale, then 3 more for the passengers who embarked there. It didn't bother us, but I really felt sorry for the crew............and no, I don't know if the Pinnacle was unavailable for breakfasts for 6 straight days. I forgot to ask.

[stag]

Curious but I want to know where this all started - never experienced the virus problem until recently - never had Code anything onboard ships not that many yrs back?

Sad 'cause sure takes away the fun of travelling & esp of a cruise what with 'Code' this or that, security fiascos..(w/ airports in particular) & even bed bugs!!!

Sorry but this is one instance when the past is preferable...IMO anyway!! :(
Legionnaires' disease was identified 33 years ago. I am sure the bacteria existed thousands of years and fatalities happened when infected. In the old days, passengers did not report the problem as often as now. But it did not mean no problem then.

[jtl513]

Curious but I want to know where this all started - never experienced the virus problem until recently - never had Code anything onboard ships not that many yrs back?
The CDC site lists outbreaks back as far as 1994:
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm

[cruisecrasy]

Legionnaires' disease was identified 33 years ago. I am sure the bacteria existed thousands of years and fatalities happened when infected. In the old days, passengers did not report the problem as often as now. But it did not mean no problem then.

as I believe it is related mostly to 'dirty' individual air conditioning units...rarely has anything to do with cruiseships..

In the old days less problems to report might be a good reason also!!

Besides, I asked about viruses & in particular the Noro Virus - do u have any ideas where it came from and while u are at it how about all the fall/winter flus these days too? Remember last winters flu problem..I sure do!! :(

[cruisecrasy]

The CDC site lists outbreaks back as far as 1994:
http://www.cdc.gov/nceh/vsp/surv/GIlist.htm

The line was only in business from Dec/93 to Sept/94 and posted a case.. They carried families with lots of kids and we all know kids carry germs...and lots of 'em and 'cause they play in very close contact they spread them :)

YES u are right, there was the occasional ship that wld report the odd case but nothing like today!! :(

I am talking about the past few yrs - its constant re problems with this or that virus & in particular the Noro Virus...never had all that yrs ago...!

So, whats next, we all have to start wearing masks to travel and likely gloves also?
Seems to me anyway, its becoming much more dangerous out there and I don't only mean from terrorism..:(