Shore Excursion Price Gouging

[Bill B]

If you plan to book an excursion (offered by the cruise line) on your own directly with the operator for a better price, don't let the operator know you are traveling on a cruise ship - many will refuse the booking. 'Make up' a hotel stay (pick one close to the pier) for your 'address'.

Example -
HAL's price is $49 for 'Le Petit Train' tour in Noumea, New Caledonia.
City Discovery's price is $12.36 for exactly the same tour.

However, when I tried to book I received the following email -

Dear William,

Greetings !
We are pleased to have received your tour request for our "Petit Train City Tour".
Unfortunately, our tour operator has advised us that they are unable to provide this tour for cruise ship passengers.
They, however informed us that you may purchase this tour or somewhat similar from the cruise line.
Sorry for this inconvenience.
Please note that we nothing will be charged from your credit card.
Thank you.

Best regards,
Allan
Tours and Co Associates Inc
City-Discovery.com

It seems the tour operator and the cruise line are in 'cahoots' to price gouge ship passengers 4X the going rate for hotel guests.

[jtl513]

This is true, but remember that HAL is providing a bus to/from the attraction, and providing a guide. And they are selling you "insurance" that the ship will wait for you in the case of a delayed return, if at all possible.

[drcpa]

Forgive me and this personal thought, but when I saw your post I was reminded that my father (still alive and well at 87) was a GI stationed in New Caledonia (not a place that gets much press these days) preparing for the invasion of Japan.
He turned 22 on August 14, 1945, VJ day.
To this day he still calls it the happiest birthday of his life.

[Bill B]

This is true, but remember that HAL is providing a bus to/from the attraction, and providing a guide. And they are selling you "insurance" that the ship will wait for you in the case of a delayed return, if at all possible.
In some cases yes, they are providing a bus to/from the attraction; however, in this particular case, no - the train stops right by the pier. Also, it would be almost impossible to be late and 'miss the boat' on a 1.5 hr. ride around town (although I'm sure some people could manage to do it).

I think you're right that in all cases, ship-booked tours have a guide... regardless, I think 4X the price is gouging!

[jtl513]

Well, if they didn't make as much money on excursions, they might have to go up on the fares, or stop allowing us to bring our own wine, or make the money up somewhere else.

I remember seeing a show on the Discovery channel (or maybe it was the Travel Channel?) about the "inside operations" of an NCL ship, and was very surprised at how much money the excursions brought in. The NCL man said that a couple of rainy port days that canceled a lot of excursions could mean that the cruise would not even make a profit.

[Bill B]

He turned 22 on August 14, 1945, VJ day.
To this day he still calls it the happiest birthday of his life.
Wow... my Mom turned 20 that day! At the time, she was putting fuses into bombs in a munitions factory somewhere around Edmonton, Alberta.

[CowPrincess]

In some cases yes, they are providing a bus to/from the attraction; however, in this particular case, no - the train stops right by the pier. Also, it would be almost impossible to be late and 'miss the boat' on a 1.5 hr. ride around town (although I'm sure some people could manage to do it).

I think you're right that in all cases, ship-booked tours have a guide... regardless, I think 4X the price is gouging!

Not really, in many cases. There is the ease, the convenience, of booking thru the ship. For lots of people, esp those who have not been to an area before, or who aren't able to find good info on the internet, there is huge value.

For you, HAL isn't doing anything to earn that extra $$$$ -- but for others, HAL is doing enough to earn it, y'know? Look at it this way -- you can make a salami sandwich for $1. Or you can go to restaurant and have it made and served to you for $7. Lots of people opt for the $7 sandwich :) because of the ease, convenience, lack of hassle. For many people, convenience has the highest value of all, and booking thru HAL is convenient.

I'm currently debating on one shorex that will cost us about $20 each more through HAL than doing it on our own. That $20/person is starting to look darn cheap :D

[Bill B]

Well, if they didn't make as much money on excursions, they might have to go up on the fares, or stop allowing us to bring our own wine, or make the money up somewhere else.

You have a good point. Anything taken away from 'A' will most likely be made up by adding to 'B'.

[Harry1954]

You have a good point. Anything taken away from 'A' will most likely be made up by adding to 'B'.
I agree with your conclusion .. this is why we book almost all our excursions thru HAL.
harry

[Jemima]

In some cases yes, they are providing a bus to/from the attraction; however, in this particular case, no - the train stops right by the pier. Also, it would be almost impossible to be late and 'miss the boat' on a 1.5 hr. ride around town (although I'm sure some people could manage to do it).

I think you're right that in all cases, ship-booked tours have a guide... regardless, I think 4X the price is gouging!

The space for HAL passengers will have been pre-arranged. That could mean that others might have to wait for a later time and there might not be enough space. Also, I looked up the excursion and there seems to be a snack at one stop for those on the HAL excursion.

[Bill B]

...I looked up the excursion and there seems to be a snack at one stop for those on the HAL excursion.
Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against HAL making a profit. In fact, even though I'm not a Carnival Corp. share holder, I want them to make a (reasonable) profit - otherwise they'd go out of business. I expect a markup... but 400% seems excessive.

I think $27.64 is a little much to pay for what essentially amounts to a 'pop and a croissant'.

[lorekauf]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against HAL making a profit. In fact, even though I'm not a Carnival Corp. share holder, I want them to make a (reasonable) profit - otherwise they'd go out of business. I expect a markup... but 400% seems excessive.

I think $27.64 is a little much to pay for what essentially amounts to a 'pop and a croissant'.

Well they also charge about 4X more for their wine prices. It is what it is. For me, I like the insurance of knowing they won't leave without me and having comfort in a strange place. You can accept it or not. For me, comfort is worth more then money. It may not be for you.

[Bill B]

For me, I like the insurance of knowing they won't leave without me and having comfort in a strange place.
They'll leave without you... but if they do, they'll also get you to the next port of call at their expense.

[lorekauf]

They'll leave without you... but if they do, they'll also get you to the next port of call at their expense.
In reality....how many times has that happened?

[mudscraper]

They'll leave without you... but if they do, they'll also get you to the next port of call at their expense.
Bill B - I think you are on your own getting to the next port if you miss the ship and your not on a HAL sponsored shorex.

[Bill B]

Bill B - I think you are on your own getting to the next port if you miss the ship and your not on a HAL sponsored shorex.
I know that.

Look back - I was replying to lorekauf saying "...I like the insurance of knowing they won't leave without me..."

[world~citizen]

...they are selling you "insurance" that the ship will wait for you in the case of a delayed return, if at all possible.

If at all possible...They have sailed on without passengers on ship shore excursions before, well, in at least one instance. I suppose the difference is they probably pay for onward transport to the ship.

[world~citizen]

...I want them to make a (reasonable) profit - otherwise they'd go out of business. I expect a markup... but 400% seems excessive.

I think $27.64 is a little much to pay for what essentially amounts to a 'pop and a croissant'.

Get with it.

There are management bonuses to be paid - and those Wall street "market making" pip squeaks to be greased.

Anything the market will bear...and I think WE are the market. ;)

[world~citizen]

In reality....how many times has that happened?

Probably not many, but the real insurance is that they will get you back to the ship, wherever it ends up.

I know of one occasion when it happened, and there was general shock throughout the ship, including some officers.

[BruceMuzz]

The "gouging" you refer to is far more complex than you realize.

Due to the very high number of lawsuits from American passengers, most mass market lines have decided to carry a $1 million per passenger liability insurance policy for all shore tours.

If those shore tours were taking place in Ohio, for example, the insurance premiums would not be so high.
When you ask an international insurance company to cover a small, possibly dangerous operation in some third world country, the premiums suddenly get very large.
In order to keep the insurance coverage rates a bit more reasonable, the cruise lines (and the insurance companies) insist that the tour operators show proof that they have reliable equipment, back up equipment, radios, approved life jackets, etc, etc, etc.

Once again, you can buy all that stuff cheaply at Wal-Mart if you are in Ohio, but if you happen to operate tours in East Africa, Tierra Del Fuego, or even in Aruba, that sort of equipment is going to cost you quite a chunk of change to import.

So who is going to pay for these hefty insurance premiums and expensive modern equipment? The cruise lines, of course.
And then they pass those costs on to the consumer - you.

Why does the operator sell the same tour so cheaply to non-cruise people?
Because the cruise line has already paid for his new equipment.
And because he has NO insurance for non-cruise customers.

If you ride on his cheap non-cruise dune buggy tour and break your neck, good luck with your medical bills and lawsuit. You'll get nothing.

[Boytjie]

Another issue is what happens when a ship misses a port. On a ship excursion it is an automatic cancellation/refund. Some independent excursion operators require 24-28 hours notice.

[NH Cruisers]

For shore excursions that arrive back at the ship or walking distance too at least 3 hours prior to ship departure I will consider a private excursion. Private excursions are often less crowded and more personallized too, along with less expensive.

If the excursion I really want arrives back to the ship less than 3 hours to departure I will do the ship sponsored one everytime.

Another thing about ship sponsored excursions. I have found on the other lines I have been on. If you are not satisfied they are willing to give OBC after the fact. I have been on quite a few excusions that others have had a complaint on, and everyone gets OBC.

[world~citizen]

...
...If you ride on his cheap non-cruise dune buggy tour and break your neck, good luck with your medical bills and lawsuit. You'll get nothing.

There is a good deal in what you say. Also, it needed to be said.

Some points I would like to bring up however. When we looked for a cruise in SE Asia we discovered it was possible to see Angkor Wat on a shore excursion. The idea delighted us to the point that it would be the centerpiece of our cruise.

We priced it. :eek:

For the same price as an excursion to Siem Reap (for the Angkor temples) for one day, and a half day drive-through tour in Pnom Penh, we could spend three nights in Bangkok in a Starwood hotel, Fly to Siem Reap for three nights and stay in a Starwood hotel, hire a driver for the three days to see the temple complex, fly to Singapore and spend three nights there in a Starwood hotel.

This is not an exaggeration - I posted this elsewhere after we returned from the holiday.

As to insurance, well, we carry our own and lots of it.

So while there is much in what you say, some of these excursions are really pricey. "Going it alone" the old fashioned way is sometimes worth consideration. We did. We are truly glad for it.

Smooth sailing...

[Harry1954]

Don't get me wrong, I have nothing against HAL making a profit. In fact, even though I'm not a Carnival Corp. share holder, I want them to make a (reasonable) profit - otherwise they'd go out of business. I expect a markup... but 400% seems excessive.
I think $27.64 is a little much to pay for what essentially amounts to a 'pop and a croissant'.
On the surface it appears they are gouging at that rate difference. However, the profit is not based on the local operator cost plus profit. There are crew whose sole responsibilities are to manage excursions and unlikely event issues. Further, there is a group in Seattle that works on setting up, monitoring quality of, and helping pax with answers to questions and concerns in advance .. these folks cost monies that the local operator does not have. Further, they are providing a service to those of us who participate in HAL excursions. Hence, what on the surface appears to be a gouge is merely adding overhead (read that as service to us the pax) and then a profit factor. Very normal business practice for us capitalists.
harry

[world~citizen]

...Very normal business practice for us capitalists.
harry

True.

This is why it is always a good idea to research to get the best value for your dollar on a case-by-case basis.

It is rapidly becoming normal practice for us consumers too. :D

Smooth sailing...

[BindarDundat]

If you ride on his cheap non-cruise dune buggy tour and break your neck, good luck with your medical bills and lawsuit. You'll get nothing.[/QUOTE]

What about the disclaimer in your cruise documents that the tour operators are independent contractors with no ties to HAL, which acts only as an agent in selling you the tour? How does HAL insurance apply?

B.

[erewhon]

Bill B,

The "Le Petit" train runs from outside the cruise terminal. Two years ago we just bought tickets from the ticket booth, we paid US$20. per person. The trip was for 1 1/2 hours, with 3 stops for photos. Very good commentary. We were on a different coloured train from the other passengers who had booked the HAL tour. There were several other Hal passengers on the train with us.

On October 17th were again in Noumea, on the Volendam, am sure the same system is in place, lots of other passengers were lining up to buy tickets in the terminal building when we walked out to the city.

You may receive more up to date information if you post a question on the P&O Australia section of Cruise Critic, lots of information there about the Pacific Islands. In fact that is where I found out about the train two years ago.:)

If you have good travel insurance , you have a choice.

[BruceMuzz]

If you ride on his cheap non-cruise dune buggy tour and break your neck, good luck with your medical bills and lawsuit. You'll get nothing.

What about the disclaimer in your cruise documents that the tour operators are independent contractors with no ties to HAL, which acts only as an agent in selling you the tour? How does HAL insurance apply?

B.[/QUOTE]

This insurance is not medical insurance.
It is liability insurance.

Regardless of any contract, the cruise line knows that a high percentage of passengers who have injuries on a tour will sue the cruise line.

[jtl513]

I expect a markup... but 400% seems excessive.Since you were "nit-picky" on my math on the price of sodas on the beverage card, I'll be "nit-picky" on yours: 4X is a 300% mark-up. :p:D

[Bill B]

Since you were "nit-picky" on my math on the price of sodas on the beverage card, I'll be "nit-picky" on yours: 4X is a 300% mark-up. :p:D
Touché!... LOL.

[Bill B]

erewhon,

Thanks for the info., but now I'm mad at Le Petit Train... so I've decided to do -

PASS NATURE CULTURE & NOUMEA EXPLORER
It's a 'hop on and off' (at any stop throughout the day from 9 a.m. to 4 p.m.) bus, and includes admission to these six attractions:
- Tjibaou Cultural Center
- Town Museum
- Territorial Museum
- Maritime History Museum
- Zoological and botanical Park
- Aquarium

For 3,200 CFP (about $36), I think it's a good deal!

I have insurance; I can buy my own snack & drink... and I'll try not to 'miss the boat'.

[erewhon]

Bill B,

For your information,in Noumea,there is a "Casino" brand Supermarket directly across the street from the Cruise Terminal, with pedestrian crossing access.

[ROZO'SBEAU]

And a fine Super Marche it is. As close to a gourmet experience as you are ever going to find in this part of the world. I was in there 4 weeks ago and loaded up on pate, cheeses, and fresh baguettes. Some decent French wine is available as well.
I realize this is somewhat off topic, but the Noumea discussion made me salivate. Sorry.

[excruisestaff]

I've been cruising since the 70's and shore excursions on every cruise line have always been more expensive than you could get on your own. This is nothing new, just even more expensive than in the past. The major "Pro" of booking thru the cruise line is that they stand behind that sale, in almost every scenario. The major "Con" is that yes, you can book the same (and maybe even better) tour on your own and at a much lower cost, but what if something does happen? The bottom line is that it's what you'll feel most comfortable doing. We usually book privately, but only when we know we have a lot of time to return to the ship. And really do your research. I recently found some tour companies charging slightly MORE than the cruise line, too, so go figure.

MH

[silverado44]

This is true, but remember that HAL is providing a bus to/from the attraction, and providing a guide. And they are selling you "insurance" that the ship will wait for you in the case of a delayed return, if at all possible.


On our recent Oosterdam trip, DW and I booked a Yelapa excursion on our own for $54/pp. The ship price was $86/pp. When we started the excursion, DW asked,"Is there anyone here that booked this excursion through the cruise ship?" About 20 people stated they had. DW then said to me, " Looks like even if we get back late, the ship will wait for us." Saved $64

[mr green]

I was given to understand last year that NCL blocked all telephone calls from its ships to tour operators in Hawaii.

john

[InMalibu]

Interesting info.

Might have to do some cost comparing for the Alaska trip I'm going on

[sparky-elpaso]

Interesting info.

Might have to do some cost comparing for the Alaska trip I'm going on

Alaska tends to be easier for independent excursions since the towns are smaller and easier to get around in. And most tour operators will pick you up at the dock. We did a combination of independent and ship's tours when we went to Alaska.

[cruisemom42]

For several years now, I have done my own research and avoided taking ship excursions whenever possible. I'm not just talking about some Caribbean or Mexican ports: I have done DIY in Naples (taking local train to Pompeii), Istanbul (using local tram to get to Sultanahmet), Rome, Barcelona, Stockholm, Helsinki, and others. And I've arranged private tours in Alexandria, Israel, Kusadasi, St Petersburg, etc.

This is becoming more common among MANY cruise ship passengers. Cruise lines need to wake up and realize that the gross overcharging on shore excursions is eventually going to alienate a majority of their market.

There is reliable information on all but the most remote and rarely visited ports, either online or in guide books.

I have never come close at all to missing the ship by using a private tour or going it alone. I think there is a mentality on the ship's tours that they CAN be back late because the ship will wait. Hence, they often are. On the other hand, a private tour operator that got passengers back late would immediately be "badmouthed" on one or all of the many travel websites where people like myself do research, and they would quickly find themselves out of business. As an example, on my recent HAL stop in Ashdod, I arranged a private guide for 3 of us in Jerusalem. We saw quite a bit more than the ship's tours did that day, and we were back at the ship a good 3 hours before the buses arrived (late).....

And for the record, I looked into the HAL overnight shore excursion in Israel (full day in Northern Israel, overnight hotel, plus full day in Jerusalem). For a solo passenger, the charge was $1399. HAL, wake up: that is robbery. For less than that, I would have been able to hire a private guide for two days (for ONE person, not a busload of 40) AND paid for an overnight in a nice hotel in Jerusalem.

[Hawaiidan]

Some ports the ships tours are well priced in relation to what you could do on your own.... such is the case here in Hawaii. and Alaska too

In ports like Kona, the ships tours basically use up all the visitor resources and there are NO real options other than the ships.

And timing too, the arrival of the ship may not mesh with the local organized tours... which may have left prior to the ship and your arrival..:o

4x....? Ever consider that pepsi you get, the one that you pay $1.50 for, with a cup costs under 15.cents, (10x) :rolleyes: Or the $20 pizza in reality costs, materials, labor and overhead some where around $2-3 (8 to 10x):eek:...its a business, come on. Then there is jewelery, furnature all sold at huge margins...

The cruise lines budget, I have been told about8 to10 per person per day for food. The average passenger...will spend close to $50 per day in extras.. or about half his fare. so whats the obsession with trying to squeeze every dime.... no one forced you to take the cruise.... DO you complain about their margin? Do you sit in your cabin drinking Koolaid because you think drink prices are too high?

The ship offers ease of booking, insurance and reliability... Yes you could walk instead of taking a taxi... but there are benifits. I am not rich but I find the offerings by the ship to far outweigh going independent after years of trying both... The ship wins in the vast majority for me. I am willing to have a fine dining experience for $$$ over getting a "Happy Meal".

I read one of the threads here on this board that said Holland is selling down in price and this is attracting the " wrong crowd", being on a budget is fine...but your can get obsessive about it too....
If you sit an analize every thing and work the math you will end up totaly neurotic and miss out on the reacon you went cruising in the first

[SwissMyst]

I wouldn't call it gouging. I would call it paying for convenience. So far we have found HAL ship excursions have been good value with enough options to have at least one good choice per port.

Plus besides being insurance for not being left behind, they are also insurance the tour actually takes place as well, as sometimes the ship comes into a different port or at a different time that can wreak havoc on prior private touring arrangements.

You don't even want to know what happened to the private tour we had to arrange at the last minute in Kalimantan Borneo when low tides and winds prevented our ship (MV Discovery) from arriving at the scheduled time in that remote location and watching our pre-paid and very pricey private group tour option possibly go down in flames.

Luckily our local guide learned of this major schedule change and was waiting for us at the gangplank with a quickly made hand lettered sign after talking his way past the port authorities to meet us there instead of our prior agreed meeting spot outside the port several hours later. And luckily we hedged out bets going out to the gangway hoping somehow he would know about this last minute change of port schedules.

In the now highly abbreviated time we would have in that remote port, it required an extra trip into town, finding an ATM, getting a new wilderness area permit, and cash for what had now become a premium private tour that was necessary to meet this new port time schedule.

This can happen too trying to avoid getting "gouged" by the ship excursions. Plus face it. we are tourists in an artificial tourist setting when all the sudden a few thousands non-locals get disgorged for short stays in any port. We stopped fighting this and when we want to travel local we do it on land tours, not cruises.

And too many private tour people always want to take you to their "uncle's" best price sovenier shop as a special deal because you are such nice guests. Just for you.

[sapper1]

I enjoy one stop shopping, which I can do on HAL's website. I don't have the patience or the time to research all the ports and then go searching for a provider, ask about references, worry about refunds if we have to cancel, find others to share with us to keep the cost down. I would sooner buy it online from HAL and forget it.

There has only been one time that we were not satisfied with an excursion and I wrote a very polite note to the excursion desk. I did not ask for a refund but I let them know why I felt the excursion was not up to HAL's standards and maybe they needed to rethink offering it. I was surprised and pleased to receive a 50% refund, as did another CC poster who was on the tour and also complained. I think maybe they listened as I read a review last month from a poster who mentioned there was a free shuttle to this place now. There wasn't when we paid for the tour.

The one time I took a private tour was with Denrus in Russia. I was not concerned as they are state approved and they also would have been in deep doggy doo if they had not delivered us back to the ship in time and we had been left behind without visas to be in the country other than in transit. They were an excellent company, by the way, and I would not hesitate to use them again.

[Bill B]

The ship offers ease of booking, insurance and reliability... ...I am not rich but I find the offerings by the ship to far outweigh going independent after years of trying both... The ship wins in the vast majority for me.
That's fine for you... and I'll admit the best shore excursion I've done was the ship-booked 'Canopy Adventure at Osorno Volcano' zip lines at Puerto Montt, Chile.

However, on most ship-booked excursions, I've felt like a sheep being herded on and off the bus... and the 'obligatory' shopping stop just adds insult to injury when you know your paying to be taken to a tourist trap with inflated prices on which the line gets a kickback.

[Hawaiidan]

That the ship can arrange for you special and private tours of just about anything your little heart desires......

Too... you can pick the tour that suits you..... they are not all bus load things.... some can be very small and quality..... dont assume they are all the same.