Oosterdam pulls out of mazatlan..... [Archive] - Cruise Critic Message Boards

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WINEMANVISALIA

January 25th, 2011, 04:13 PM

CowPrincess

January 25th, 2011, 04:17 PM

Darn! And how unfortunate for all the people in Mazatlan who rely on tourism to earn a living :(

This makes me very sad, and I'm very sorry that it appears we won't be going to Mazatlan. Sigh.....

trvlcrzy

January 25th, 2011, 04:18 PM

DH and I compose the daily "Where's the Fleet?" posts. Does anyone have specific information about these itinerary changes? Will another port replace Mazatlan or will the passengers enjoy a sea day?

Krazy Kruizers

January 25th, 2011, 04:19 PM

Guess HAL is taking precautions after that recent shooting.

Krazy Kruizers

January 25th, 2011, 04:20 PM

DH and I compose the daily "Where's the Fleet?" posts. Does anyone have specific information about these itinerary changes? Will another port replace Mazatlan or will the passengers enjoy a sea day?

I heard that Manzanillo will replace some of the Mazatlan stops.

SDchick

January 25th, 2011, 05:39 PM

http://www.noroeste.com.mx/publicaciones.php?id=655951

I copied & pasted the article into an online translator.

HERE IS THE TRANSLATION:

The shipping lines operate Oosterdam cruise and Disney announced they will stop coming to Mazatlan in 2011 for two reasons: the economic crisis and fear of violence.

Disney Wonder Cruise canceled 27 scheduled arrivals at the port Mazatlan, but overturned the crossing to Puerto Vallarta and Los Cabos, while the Oosterdam did something similar to the recent events in which foreigners have been affected as a result of organized crime.

According to information online, the shipping company Disney has argued that the decision to take the route to Mazatlan has been for "changes in the environment. "

In the remainder of the cruise season, the frequency of arrivals per week was reduced from six to three, with the recent cancellation of two ships, in addition to the Carnival Splendor, which still does not confirm his return, said Rafael Rivera López.

"Yes we were told to cancel their upcoming arrivals and it is unfortunate that this happens, but it is a result of all that is happening and that carriers are making adjustments to what is best for them in economic and security issue. "

After traveling to Los Cabos and Puerto Vallarta pass, the boat that since 2008 was in recess in the Mexican Pacific crossing will not come on Thursday January 27 as scheduled until a week ago.

The Oosterdam was coming on Wednesday, as part of simultaneous arrivals to the Sapphire Princess or Mariner of the Seas, which also stopped coming since last Jan. 12.

The shipping companies to reduce the impact of low demand, what they do is cut costs, and in the field of port services, Mazatlán is more expensive compared to Puerto Vallarta and Los Cabos, and that's one reason they have also taken into account.

"I think I must be going through the same thing about Royal Caribbean, that are not selling the cabins that they expected and there is not enough people to buy exclusive and expensive cruises like the Disney Wonder. "

I therefore consider that the first thing taken as justification is the economic issue and is pushing them to be adjustments and cancellations on some routes such as Mazatlan and if we add the effect of violence.

"They are looking for shorter routes and make them cost less, less taxes and port charges and port everything expensive is not helpful as they offer other destinations like Cabo San Lucas, where Vallarta anchor and equal Mazatlan but still considered expensive. "

================================================== =======

I'm sailing the Oosterdam on Feb 19th. Curious to see what our new port will be... I'm not too concerned since I haven't done much research on my ports yet and I'm just excited to go on a 7-day cruise, period!

IRL_Joanie

January 25th, 2011, 05:47 PM

http://www.noroeste.com.mx/publicaciones.php?id=655951

the above article is in spanish but it clearly states the Oosterdam has decided not to go to Mazatlan...IMO...all the cruise lines will nix mazatlan now....

Just an FYI to all,

I just called and spoke with "Johnnie" at Shore Excursions regarding Mazatlan being dropped from any of the Oosterdam cruising this week and through ours.

His comments is NO!! None have been dropped and there is no word on any plans to drop Mazatlan or any other ports as of this time.

He further stated that Shore Excursions would be notified far in advance of us, the passengers as they have to be able to set up excursions in any other port of call.

Also stated was his word that IF HAL does drop any of our ports, and/or replace them, we WILL be notified via email. For those using Travel Agents, they will receive the email.

So as of this moment NONE of our Ports of Calls have been removed/replaced.

(as an aside for this thread, I posted the above not an hour ago on our Roll Call Thread for 2 April 2011)

If you wish to call them yourselves here is their Toll Free Number: 1-888-425-9376 Shore Excursions

Joanie

cruiseapril

January 25th, 2011, 05:54 PM

The U.S Dept. of State has a travel warning up for Mexico (and also Haiti and Colombia in the Caribbean area.) It is worth going to that website to read first hand reports about the situation in Mexico. Hopefully, things will improve with time so that tourism in some areas can be restored. This must be so difficult for those who rely on tourism to make a living.

luvcdays

January 25th, 2011, 05:55 PM

I also emailed HAL this morning and they said Mazatlan was still on for the Jan. 29th cruise.:confused:

SDchick

January 25th, 2011, 06:10 PM

Just an FYI to all,

I just called and spoke with "Johnnie" at Shore Excursions regarding Mazatlan being dropped from any of the Oosterdam cruising this week and through ours.

His comments is NO!! None have been dropped and there is no word on any plans to drop Mazatlan or any other ports as of this time.

He further stated that Shore Excursions would be notified far in advance of us, the passengers as they have to be able to set up excursions in any other port of call.

Also stated was his word that IF HAL does drop any of our ports, and/or replace them, we WILL be notified via email. For those using Travel Agents, they will receive the email.

So as of this moment NONE of our Ports of Calls have been removed/replaced.

(as an aside for this thread, I posted the above not an hour ago on our Roll Call Thread for 2 April 2011)

If you wish to call them yourselves here is their Toll Free Number: 1-888-425-9376 Shore Excursions

Joanie

Thanks for updating us! We will just wait & see!

pinotage

January 25th, 2011, 06:23 PM

Does this mean that this poster wasn't really on the Oosterdam right now... and that the ship was not actually re-directed?? :confused:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1345679

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 06:46 PM

I think that the poster (sorry can't remember the name) that was reporting live from the Oosterdam as noted in the post above) does actually know where the ship is going and it ain't Mazatlan....:D

I could tell you stories that would curl your hair about cruise agents, shore excursions agents (shoreside and onboard) - in my experience - they don't know DIDDLY.:) Oosterdam is going to Manzanillo tomorrow. Read the Spanish newspaper article which states that the Disney Wonder and HAL's Oosterdam have pulled out.

Canuck

CowPrincess

January 25th, 2011, 06:48 PM

CowPrincess

January 25th, 2011, 06:52 PM

Anyone else on the Feb 6 Sea of Cortez hoping we get sent to La Paz instead of Manzanillo? If we don't go to Mazatlan, of course.

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 06:56 PM

Cow Princess - I am not on the Feb. 6th cruise - we go later on the Sea of Cortez - but yes, we are hoping for La Paz too!:) If you go, you will have to come back and tell us all about it!

Canuck

CowPrincess

January 25th, 2011, 07:01 PM

lollytw

January 25th, 2011, 07:14 PM

Hi, all. It is definitely true that the Disney Wonder is not going to Mazatlan. My son, daughter-in-law and two grandchildren are on her right now doing the Mexican Riviera, and they let us know the day of their departure to LA that their itinerary had been changed! :eek: Basically they had one day's notice, as they flew to LA a day ahead. Luckily for them they hadn't booked any shore excursions in Mazatlan. The Wonder is doing Cabo San Lucas, then Puerto Vallarta and a second stop in Cabo instead.

I, too, really sympathize with those who make their living by tourism in Mazatlan, which is obviously a lot of folk. :(

solocanadian

January 25th, 2011, 09:18 PM

I heard that Manzanillo will replace some of the Mazatlan stops.
I started a new thread last night to DBA asking him if all upcoming Mexican Riviera and Sea of Cortez cruises were exchanging these 2 ports. When I got home today from work I noticed the thread is gone. Sure would be nice to get an honest answer from HAL.
:confused:

kvblueridge

January 25th, 2011, 09:33 PM

Welcome to Holland America Line. We offer Chat service in English only. Please wait while we contact our next available agent…
You are now customer number 2 in the queue.
You are now customer number 1 in the queue.
You are now speaking with Christopher!
Christopher: Hi! My name is Christopher. How may I help you?
kv : Will Oosterdam go to Mazatlan on the 1/29/11 sailing?
Christopher: As of right now, the only sailing that has been altered was the 1/22 sailing of the ms Oosterdam. If your itinerary does change, we will send you an email stating that
kv : Is an alternate port planned?
Christopher: If we do cancel Mazatlan, there would be an alternate port. We will not know that Port of Call until something is set in stone
kv : ok, thank you for the information
Christopher: No Problem, Is there anything else i can help you with Today ?
kv : no, that is all, thanks

RuthC

January 25th, 2011, 09:38 PM

When I got home today from work I noticed the thread is gone.
Your thread has no replies, and has merely dropped to the next page. It's not gone.

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 09:42 PM

CanuckCruiser, we were in La Paz on the Sea of Cortez cruise in late 2008, and this time they've substituted Guaymas for La Paz. I'm looking forward to Guaymas, but would really like to go back to La Paz too.

BTW, my post about going to La Paz was not meant as anti-Manzanillo or anti-Mazatlan. Just very pro-La Paz :)

CowPrincess - We haven't been to any of the Sea of Cortez ports (meaning Loreto, Topolobampo or Guaymas) or La Paz, so can't judge but I do know that I have read many good things about La Paz. We have been to Manzanillo twice and I did not find that the shopping was very good at all so I would look forward to seeing La Paz - if I had a choice.:)

I will be sad if we don't go to Mazatlan because even if we don't go wandering around like we usually do (because of the violence) - I still think that Mazatlan has the best cruise terminal shopping - lots of cheap knock-offs, which I love:)

Have a good cruise wherever you end up!!

Canuck

brutus11

January 25th, 2011, 09:58 PM

sad about violence in Mazatlan. We would not ever go on a cruise that goes to Egypt, Moscow , any box store in Washington, grocery store in Arizona, Abbotsford BC Etc . We are really looking for places that have no violence so that we can plan a cruise soon.

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 10:41 PM

AZaTaz posted this on the Mexican Riviera board. Looks like Princess has now pulled out too....

"My son and daughter-in-law are on the Sapphire Princess right now and call to ask me to look up some things in Cabo as their stop in Mazatlan has been canceled. They will be going to Cabo and spending more time there then they will be going to Ensenada with a sea day.
Just thought it was interesting."

Canuck

lorekauf

January 25th, 2011, 10:48 PM

I could tell you stories that would curl your hair about cruise agents, shore excursions agents (shoreside and onboard) - in my experience - they don't know DIDDLY.:) Oosterdam is going to Manzanillo tomorrow. Read the Spanish newspaper article which states that the Disney Wonder and HAL's Oosterdam have pulled out.

Canuck
That's for sure. Someone should introduce HAL's left hand to it's right hand:D:eek:.

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 11:21 PM

Lorekauf - LOL. No, but it is not just HAL unfortunately - all the lines are the same - if you want to know something, anything - come to CRUISE CRITIC - it is like CNN. If something happens in the world - I always turn to CNN and get an answer right away. Cruiseline agents are the LAST place to turn to!:eek: I didn't mean anything against Joanie reporting her conversation with the shore excursion guy - I have just been around the block WAY too many times with those people to know better.:D

How come nobody is saying anything about Carnival going or not going? The Spirit is leaving on Friday for their Mex. Riv. cruise and Mazatlan is one of their stops - anyone know?

Canuck

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 11:25 PM

Actually I think I just answered my own question:)

Carnival owns HAL and Princess and if they pulled out - how can Carnival still go to Mazatlan? They can't.

So, there was a rumour that NCL Star is not going but I don't think it has been confirmed yet - so after that - there are no ships left...

Canuck

pmd98052

January 25th, 2011, 11:32 PM

Really pathetic how scared people have become.

Sounds like the Oosterdam should be skipping San Diego as well:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/24/man-shot-fight-roseville-fleetridge-hotel/

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/2011/jan/14/man-injured-possible-gang-related-shooting/

CanuckCruizer

January 25th, 2011, 11:42 PM

That is terrible about the shootings in San Diego. We are staying there for 3 nights pre-cruise so I will be more aware of the surroundings after reading that - thanks for the heads up.

I don't remember anyone on this particular thread saying that they were scared....I never said that I was scared to go to Mazatlan. I am disappointed not going to Mazatlan - it has the best shopping. I am sad for all the Mexican people that depend on our tourist dollars. I would agree that it may be dangerous but I don't think that people were actually talking about being scared - we are all trying to find out if we are going or not going. (Maybe I need to reread this thread...:)).

Canuck

pmd98052

January 25th, 2011, 11:52 PM

I'm sure no one in this thread is scared. However obviously the cruise line and some others must be to make such a drastic costly move.

It does seem a double standard to pull out of Mazatlan and not San Diego (and all other USA ports) though...

Barocl

January 26th, 2011, 12:07 AM

That's the hotel we always stayed at. Take care.

CanuckCruizer

January 26th, 2011, 12:11 AM

Well, tourists aren't being shot in San Diego....
I think that the cruiselines are reacting to the fears of their mostly North American passengers as much as the real dangers involved. That being said, I have been reading about other violent crimes in Mazatlan that have just been brought to light, which make me, as a "North American" tourist, nervous. Tourists attacked on ATV's on the beach, a female tourist raped a couple of days ago, a Penticton guy getting shot right by the El Cid Hotel where I have stayed and have walked by many times off a cruiseship - I recognized the area right on tv....the newspaper office getting shot up because they refused to pay the protection money...someone that lives there telling a friend that Diamonds International (a ship recommended store) is being used as a front for money laundering by the head of the drug cartel....I could go on and on. Things have changed in Mazatlan in recent years. Perhaps the ships are getting wind of more of these stories than the public is aware of and that is why they have decided to pull out.

Canuck

pmd98052

January 26th, 2011, 12:22 AM

I think that the cruiselines are reacting to the fears of their mostly North American passengers as much as the real dangers involved.

My point entirely - And those same tourists should feel just as afraid in San Diego, LA, Long Beach, Miami or any other USA cruise port. So I wonder when HAL will pull out of the US market? :)

Another example of the dangers of San Diego - brutal mugging in broad daylight in the center of town next to a trolley stop.... http://www.nbcsandiego.com/news/local-beat/Caught-on-Camera-as-Witnesses-Watch-114252419.html

CanuckCruizer

January 26th, 2011, 12:34 AM

My point entirely - And those same tourists should feel just as afraid in San Diego, LA, Long Beach, Miami or any other USA cruise port. So I wonder when HAL will pull out of the US market? :)

As I said - those weren't tourists being shot in San Diego.

The cruiselines will pull out of the US market in reaction to the tourists' fears, which I don't believe, will be anytime soon. Americans are not afraid of their own country even if the reality is that it is more dangerous than Mexico.

I really think that there is more to this story (as in there are a lot of crimes that we are not hearing about) as there is no way that all of these cruiselines would pull out of such a major port. Look at the poor little cruise passenger that was shot and killed in St. Thomas last year - no one pulled out of there and it was a terrible gang turf war.

Canuck

CanuckCruizer

January 26th, 2011, 12:41 AM

Looks like the danger is very real after all....

CaseyJr posted this on the Mex. Riv. board:

"Posting here too in case people aren't reading the other thread.

Figuring there must be some sort of political unrest, I Googled to find Mazatlan news in English and found:

http://mazmessenger.com/2011/01/24/v...ague-the-city/ (http://mazmessenger.com/2011/01/24/violence-continues-to-plague-the-city/)

Media reported today that to date in the month of January, 31 people have been killed in violent incidents, three of which occurred last Thursday.
On that day in the early hours of the morning a man showing signs of torture was dropped from a vehicle in front of the D’Gala Hotel in the Golden Zone where he was assassinated on the sidewalk. The gunmen then opened fire on the glass door entrance to the hotel, which is located across from the Canadian Consulate and adjacent to the American Consulate. No one else was injured.
Two separate incidents occurred later that day in the Colonia Ramón F. Iturbe and Colonia Federico Velarde.
On Saturday at 3:20am, two young men were murdered as they left the Dolshe nightclub on Av. Del Mar where a dance organized by supporters of Farid Aún, a Carnaval candidate for the King of Happiness was in full swing. Present at the party were all the Queen of Carnaval candidates and several local bandas.
According to media reports, the attack caused panic among partygoers within the nightclub, resulting in the closure of the club an hour before schedule.
Media also reported that 33 homicides occurred in the municipality in the month of January, 2010.

If this happened on Thursday night, it would explain why Disney decided to pull out of Mazatlan on Saturday and the other cruises are following suit this week."

solocanadian

January 26th, 2011, 12:53 AM

Your thread has no replies, and has merely dropped to the next page. It's not gone.
Thanks for pointing that out, Ruth - I've never scrolled down to the next page - learn something new every day on CC.:D

pmd98052

January 26th, 2011, 01:01 AM

The cruiselines will pull out of the US market in reaction to the tourists' fears, which I don't believe, will be anytime soon.

Thats what I find strange when many US cruise port cities are also very dangerous. We're heading to Mexico next month with two young kids and I'm no more worried about the port calls in Mexico than the port call in the US.

tcook052

January 26th, 2011, 09:34 AM

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2011/01/mazatlan-mexico-crime-cruise-ships-disney-princess-drug-violence/140242/1

pinotage

January 26th, 2011, 12:09 PM

Mazatlán loses Disney calls, additional ships divert for now (**updated**)
Tuesday, 25 January 2011 13:50 -- Linked here: Seatrade Communications (http://www.cruise-community.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=4829&catid=910&Itemid=69)

SwissMyst

January 26th, 2011, 12:34 PM

Was it not also reported Mazatlan was charging much higher port fees than other Mexican Riviera ports. Perhaps this is a little game of hard ball going on here.

Boatdrill

January 26th, 2011, 02:09 PM

After the experience I had trying to get info from the Shore Excursions Dept at HAL, I would take everything they say with a BAG of salt. IME they are the least knowledgeable of any of the HAL phone reps.

Very nice. What do you expect them to say, when clearly no official
statement has been released by HAL ? They're doing their job and advising their customers that when/if there's an official announcement, pax will be notified with as much advance warning as possible.

Since the Oosterdam goes out every Saturday, at some point, if/when an announcment is made, some passengers will not get the message until they reach the terminal to check-in. Sorry, it happens.

But we all know that since HAL passengers are experienced travellers, they will act like it, and understand that cruiselines can change ports as necessary.

lorekauf

January 26th, 2011, 03:38 PM

CowPrincess

January 26th, 2011, 03:44 PM

Very nice. What do you expect them to say, when clearly no official
statement has been released by HAL ? They're doing their job and advising their customers that when/if there's an official announcement, pax will be notified with as much advance warning as possible.

Since the Oosterdam goes out every Saturday, at some point, if/when an announcment is made, some passengers will not get the message until they reach the terminal to check-in. Sorry, it happens.

But we all know that since HAL passengers are experienced travellers, they will act like it, and understand that cruiselines can change ports as necessary.

Seeing as you quoted me, I presume your comments are intended for me. My issue had ZERO to do with the Mexican problems; rather, I needed info on one of the ports that WAS scheduled for our cruise. Roatan, as a matter of fact. And the HAL rep INSISTED that Mahogany Bay was NOT on Roatan, rather it was "Honduras". Yes, I replied, Roatan is part of Honduras. And then she informed me "YOU ARE NOT GOING TO ROATAN, YOU ARE GOING TO MAHOGANY BAY which is in Honduras NOT ROATAN (by her tone of voice her eyes were rolling back in her head) and no shore excursions are being scheduled for this port".

Hence my belief that the Shorex people are the last ones to ask for current, valid, accurate information.

As for this: "we all know that since HAL passengers are experienced travellers, they will act like it," were you reading CC during hurricane seaon?

I personally don't care terribly much where we go but I am hoping for La Paz.

sdschwrt

January 26th, 2011, 04:52 PM

Was it not also reported Mazatlan was charging much higher port fees than other Mexican Riviera ports. Perhaps this is a little game of hard ball going on here.

While acknowledging the serious problem with violence, Mazatlan governmental officials claim that port charges and inability to fill ships due to perceived fears are a major reason for the ship cancellations.

From Travel.state.gov ? Country Specific Information "CRIME: Crime, including violent crime, is a serious problem in ?, particularly in ? and ? While the vast majority of crimes occur in impoverished areas, the violence is not confined. The primary criminal concern for tourists is becoming a victim of theft. In several cases, armed robberies of Americans have turned violent when the victims resisted handing over valuables. Crime is exacerbated by the fact that police are understaffed and ineffective. Additionally, there have been frequent allegations of police corruption ...

In 2009 the Embassy received several reports of sexual assaults against American citizens, including two cases of alleged sexual assaults at tourist resorts. Americans should maintain careful watchfulness, avoid secluded places or situations, go out in groups and watch out for each other.

Similar warnings are on the Canadian Government site Voyage.gc.ca for this country.

Guess what! The country is not Mexico and neither of the cities is Mazatlan. The country is the major Carnival, Holland America, Princess (do not know if Disney goes here) destination of Jamaica and the cities are Kingston and Montego Bay. Although there is much more tourist based crime in Jamaica, including shootings, the cruise lines have not pulled out.
You decide if pulling the ships from Mazatlan is solely a safety decision or if financial considerations, higher port fees and distance to Mazatlan were significant deciding factors as the Mazatlan authorities claim.