Travel Insurance – a lesson learned

[HalFan]

We’ve been on 10 HAL cruises and have always purchased travel insurance, although not through HAL. We have had a trip to Egypt planned for the beginning of March for several months. We purchased travel insurance for this trip through the company that we have used previously. We are staying with friends in Cairo so we only insured the airline costs to Egypt and a cruise/tour on the Nile.

We have been glued to the TV watching the events in Egypt unfold. Last week when things became more violent, we thought we might want to cancel or postpone our trip. We checked our travel insurance policy and discovered that there is no cancellation coverage for “civil unrest.” We called the company to make sure that we understood the policy correctly and we were told that there was no benefit for cancelling our trip because of civil unrest, not even if the US State Department recommends that you NOT travel to a country. We asked if they offer a policy for such a situation and they said that they do not. Interestingly, my brother-in-law lives in Canada, and the normal travel insurance that he purchases does cover cancellation when their State Department advises against traveling to a country. After realizing that we would lose a fair amount of money to cancel or postpone our trip, we decided to wait and see what happens in the next couple of weeks.

We also looked more closely at the other benefits of our policy. As an example, the other cancellation provisions are quite restrictive, i.e. for medical reasons you must have a life threatening illness or be hospitalized. There are still a multitude of other benefits of the policy, such as lost baggage and medical emergency transportation.

The reason for my posting this on the HAL board is that this experience made us realize that the HAL cancellation protection plans may be a good deal after all. At least you can cancel FOR ANY REASON up to 24 hours in advance. We’ve certainly learned our lesson to read the insurance policy and its exclusions more carefully in the future.

[babygirl722]

This is unsettling and unfortunate. It seems that different companies offer different policies. The company I use does offer a policy that allows you to cancel for any read on, no questions asked. Of course, you pay a premium over the basic policy.

[crusinbanjo]

I'm not surprised, Insurance companies are not in the business of insuring, they are in the business of making money. The fine print is always stacked against you.

[sail7seas]

Didn't we read that some people could not use their insurance when their flights were cancelled due to the volcano eruption? Seems there are more things not covered than are covered. :(

Sorry to read your insurance may not help you out.

[tcook052]

Note the CPP Standard Plan provides a refund of 80% of "elligible" amounts paid, 90% for the CPP Platinum Plan and while not full refundable I will agree is that's pretty darn good in these sort of cases.

Note Canada's State Department is correctly called Foreign Affairs or the Department of Foreign Affairs. It is standard for insurance policies to allow insured travellers to cancel once that department has issued a travel advisory warning Canadians to avoid travelling to that destination, in this case Egypt. That advisory in case anyone is interested is here:

http://www.voyage.gc.ca/countries_pays/report_rapport-eng.asp?id=79000

It is wise for every traveller to take the time to read the fine print and ask questions to ensure they are properly covered though sadly not all do take that opportunity until it's too late.

[Modern_Viking]

Didn't we read that some people could not use their insurance when their flights were cancelled due to the volcano eruption? Seems there are more things not covered than are covered. :(

Sorry to read your insurance may not help you out.


I would imagine that many policies do not cover losses due to "acts of God" such as the eruption of a volcano.

[jhannah]

I always go to an insurance clearing house site and compare policies side-by-side. The civil unrest provision is shown there (along with other provisions/exclusions) so you can see which policies cover what potential losses. These sites have been a great help to me.

[Krazy Kruizers]

As the years go on -- more and more insurance policies are covering less.

We also learned a lesson last year. When a massive snow storm hit last February -- just 3 weeks before our cruise -- and our house suffered major damage -- the third party insurance would not pay off the cost of our cruise. They claimed that as long as there was at least one room in the house that we could live in -- no pay off. Thankfully we booked first class air line tickets and got all that money back and all hotels we could cancel with no penalities.

Sorry this is happening to you.

[nordski]

Didn't we read that some people could not use their insurance when their flights were cancelled due to the volcano eruption? Seems there are more things not covered than are covered. :(

Sorry to read your insurance may not help you out.

Re: the Iceland Volcano, our Insurance company initially ruled that the coverage for natural diasaters applied only if they occurred at our destination, namely London Heathrow, and thus our flight/cruise wouldn't be covered. To give them credit, they seemed willing to revisit that decision, but since we eventually made it to Rome we never had to test that element of their policy.

That event certainly made us reconsider how we make insurance decisions, but, unfortunately, there seems to be limted means of judging companies prior to making a claim.

[kazu]

It's sad, but true - you have to review these policies with a fine toothed comb. Even then, as KK has pointed out, their definition and yours may be totally different.

[Jade13]

Do you have consolidator airfare? If not and it is through the airline usually non-refundable international airfare can be re-booked, usually for a $250.00 per person fee, plus any change in airline cost. Note that if you are flying on two different airlines the change fee will be assessed by two different airlines.

You should look at a Plan B, perhaps delaying the same trip until later in the year, if you feel it is unsafe to travel to Cairo vs loosing all of your airfare. You might also be able to use your airfare to go somewhere else. You might also be able to convince the airline to waive the change fee under the circumstance.

[Crazy Gramps]

does the HAL cancellation protection apply to everyone?

My trip doc say if I wanted to cancel now I'd have tom take a 50% hit

Gramps

[kjn]

Gramps,

If you want to read a good discussion of what your benefits may (or may not) be with the HAL Platinum Plan, you might want to check out the current discussion on the "Platinum Insurance - Has Anyone Else had a problem Collecting?" thread at:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1350021

[Jade13]

does the HAL cancellation protection apply to everyone?

My trip doc say if I wanted to cancel now I'd have tom take a 50% hit

Gramps

Yes. If you had purchased HAL's Platinum Plan and canceled in the 50% penalty phase you would receive 95% back on your credit card. No questions asked.

[mabert]

The long thread referenced by another poster was very interesting, about two singles traveling together. One canceled due to illness. The other took the trip. HAL, at last report, had determined the one who took the trip needed to pay the single supplement, but did not collect during her travel with them. So, as I understand that case, HAL is going to deduct the single supplement from the reimbursement to the one who did not travel. *

I have used a third party insurance company against which I have filed two claims. Both paid promptly. One a cancellation due to a covered reason the other because of a change of plans, i.e. cancel for any reason. Unlike the HAL policy, you need to purchase the insurance on the day of your initial deposit to have the cancel for any reason clause.

However, while the HAL policy is excellent for cancellation, 90% for the platinum, it does not provide adequate medical and medivac coverage. As gleaned from that thread, the cancellation component is (until 24 hours before departure) covered by HAL and the medical by a separate company. The medical is only 10kUSA with only 50kUSD for medivac.

As several posters noted, this is inadequate if a true emergency arises. So I had to rethink why I have insurance for my trips to foreign countries.

While the reimbursement may be only 75% (or more depending on the penalty phase), it is really the cost of the medical and medivac that could wreck havoc with your finances.

So yesterday I bought another policy, with a third party to provide the medical coverage I would really need in case of an emergency. In the future, I will simply buy that insurance instead of the HAL policy.


*I asked the third party about this situation. Their coverage includes any fee adjustment due to this circumstance or the cost of recovering your frequent flyer miles.

[Hawaiidan]

While it is too late now, consider that for all the years you spent your money on what are in reality bad investments into your own travel fund, bank it or put it like the insurance companies to in AA dividend paying stocks. ?
In a few years your not only sitting on a lot of funds but they are growing and growing and one day you might just pull out with a ton of cash.... and take a trip

The same is true of travel savings... start a stock and investment savings that you pay into every month...like a car payment. Wait a year or so before you begin to draw on it, and you might fing your self with 25 to 30K to draw on for travel.. and also your own insurance. anf have it growing annualy by $10 to $15 K a year...

Most large companies and many peopel now self insure and save $$$$$$ huge sums... consider it.. you can have your cake and eat it too:rolleyes:

[Jade13]

While it is too late now, consider that for all the years you spent your money on what are in reality bad investments into your own travel fund, bank it or put it like the insurance companies to in AA dividend paying stocks. ?
In a few years your not only sitting on a lot of funds but they are growing and growing and one day you might just pull out with a ton of cash.... and take a trip

The same is true of travel savings... start a stock and investment savings that you pay into every month...like a car payment. Wait a year or so before you begin to draw on it, and you might fing your self with 25 to 30K to draw on for travel.. and also your own insurance. anf have it growing annualy by $10 to $15 K a year...

Most large companies and many peopel now self insure and save $$$$$$ huge sums... consider it.. you can have your cake and eat it too:rolleyes:


Which is fine until things go wrong and you end up with a 50-100K medivac bill.

[GarySuzy]

This Thread made me go look at my Travel Insurance and this is what it says;

Travel Delay must be caused by or result from:
a. Common Carrier delay; or
b. loss or theft of your passport(s), travel documents or
money; or
c. quarantine; or
d. hijacking; or
e. natural disaster or adverse weather; or
f. a documented traffic accident while you are en route to
departure; or
g. unannounced strike; or
h. a civil disorder; or
i. your, a Family Member traveling with you or a Traveling
Companion’s Injury or Sickness; or
j. a Family Member traveling with you or a Traveling
Companion’s death.

This list is also repeated for Trip Cancellation.

Gary

[sail7seas]

As the years go on -- more and more insurance policies are covering less.

We also learned a lesson last year. When a massive snow storm hit last February -- just 3 weeks before our cruise -- and our house suffered major damage -- the third party insurance would not pay off the cost of our cruise. They claimed that as long as there was at least one room in the house that we could live in -- no pay off. Thankfully we booked first class air line tickets and got all that money back and all hotels we could cancel with no penalities.

Sorry this is happening to you.




That's awful. How would/could you be expected to know they would refuse benefit if you could live in one room. Did they actually point out language in the policy supporting that decision?





While it is too late now, consider that for all the years you spent your money on what are in reality bad investments into your own travel fund, bank it or put it like the insurance companies to in AA dividend paying stocks. ?
In a few years your not only sitting on a lot of funds but they are growing and growing and one day you might just pull out with a ton of cash.... and take a trip

The same is true of travel savings... start a stock and investment savings that you pay into every month...like a car payment. Wait a year or so before you begin to draw on it, and you might fing your self with 25 to 30K to draw on for travel.. and also your own insurance. anf have it growing annualy by $10 to $15 K a year...

Most large companies and many peopel now self insure and save $$$$$$ huge sums... consider it.. you can have your cake and eat it too:rolleyes:


We have self insured our cruises for about the last 50 or so. We have medical evacuation and medical coverage but never the cost of the trip. Like you say, the savings on premiums we didn't pay has been in the tens of thousands of dollars (predicated upon the price of our cruises). We have been so fortunate to never have had to cancel a cruise past final payment date. Hope I didn't just jinx us for our next (or other ) future cruise. :eek: The risk in doing this lays in the first 5 or 6 cruises then you reach break even point if you must cancel and after that you are into 'being ahead' in savings for premiums not paid.

Self-insurance is not suitable for everyone.
The most important is to be sure you have medical evacuation and medical coverage.

[vbmom87]

Self-insurance is not suitable for everyone.
The most important is to be sure you have medical evacuation and medical coverage.

The main reason we buy insurance is for the medical and medical evacuation. Many people don't realize that Medicare only covers them in the USA.

However, like so many on this board, we don't travel often enough to "self insure ourselves. What our trips cost, would be a big loss for us. For some that would not be the case. So, yes, I can understand why many would self insure their basic trip. But like you, I think most people would not want to be paying a medical evacuation bill, or the fee to get someone home who needed special medical transpor tto get back home.

[sail7seas]

The premiums for medical evacuation and medical care is very much lower than when including price of the trip.

We are not yet on Medicare.

[photomikey]

Next time, self-insure. With all the $ you've spent on travel insurance over the years, plus all the $ you will spend on it in years to come, you could afford to eat the price of this trip and come out ahead - and your "terms" can be whatever you like.

[DutchByAssociation]

Note the CPP Standard Plan provides a refund of 80% of "elligible" amounts paid, 90% for the CPP Platinum Plan and while not full refundable I will agree is that's pretty darn good in these sort of cases.

So for anyone who wants even more details, here's the FULL plan description which is on HAL's website:

http://www.hollandamerica.com/assets//cruise-vacation-onboard/Full_CPP4.21.pdf

[tcook052]

Next time, self-insure. With all the $ you've spent on travel insurance over the years, plus all the $ you will spend on it in years to come, you could afford to eat the price of this trip and come out ahead - and your "terms" can be whatever you like.

Sorry but that works up to the point where someone requires emergency medical evacuation and it comes to tens of thousands of dollars depending upon location. The chances someone will spend that much on insurance in their lifetime is slim.

I still say the best policy, pardon the pun, is self awareness of the costs, fine print and limitations and potential downsides of being without it.

[BumperII]

Next time, self-insure. With all the $ you've spent on travel insurance over the years, plus all the $ you will spend on it in years to come, you could afford to eat the price of this trip and come out ahead - and your "terms" can be whatever you like.


This is very much our experience. Travel insurance companies only pay out about 12 cents for every dollar of premium. We have taken over twenty five cruises without insurance. We did have to cancel one cruise on short notice, and forfeited a little over four thousand dollars. That is about half of what we would have spent to ensure all those cruises. So especially for frequent cruisers who book the cheap seats, self insuring seems to be the only way to cruise.

[Jade13]

This is very much our experience. Travel insurance companies only pay out about 12 cents for every dollar of premium. We have taken over twenty five cruises without insurance. We did have to cancel one cruise on short notice, and forfeited a little over four thousand dollars. That is about half of what we would have spent to ensure all those cruises. So especially for frequent cruisers who book the cheap seats, self insuring seems to be the only way to cruise.

Do you have medical insurance that you can use out of the country, so your only loss would be the cruise cost?

[sail7seas]

Do you have medical insurance that you can use out of the country, so your only loss would be the cruise cost?


You are exactly on point, Jade.
As someone who self-insures the price of our cruises, we always are sure we have medical evacuation coverage and medical that pays out of U.S.

The premims for those two issues are very low..... VERY much lower than when including the pricey cost of our "S" Cabins, pre and post cruise hotel and air. We are willing to eat those costs in the event of cancellation but not willing to risk paying for medical evac from sea or high medical in a location outside the U.S. What we pay for that coverage is less than the price of many of our dinners out on a Saturday night.

[mabert]

Where can we insure exclusively for the medical and medivac outside the country? One poster suggested American Express.

Thank you

[Hawaiidan]

I would suggest going to an insurance company directly and not through a third party sunch as American express, ( who is only going to take a slice of the pie and raise the cost.)
Getting medical evac insurance would seem like a good idea IF you are a high risk person, or suspect you are. Otherwise you need to think it through
I have medical insurance ( Kaiser) that pays for treatment in any country where I need it... so thats a non issue. Some countries like New Zealand and UK will treat a visitor with their national health plan. Check that out.

One needs too, conduct a bit of risk analysis.. are you healthy and fit with no prior problems? Is the region your going to noted for high incidents of strife. Is the time of the year likely to cause problems. are you going to take a lot of risky activites?
Think it through and come up with your own profile... and for most of us it will clearly indicate self insure is the way to go.
If you have some airling miles stashed... you have the resource to get free flights back home or changes.. all at no cost

Selling insurance to travlers who are made to worry over what are historicaly small risks is a huge profit center. Remember the old flight insurance and what a rip off that is... Well howdy to trip insurance.... Fear is the product the travel folks are selling and they know, as pointed out that the profit margin is around 90%.....:eek: It is in their own selfish best interest to scare you good!!!

In 30 years, I have never had a problem or known anyone who has. In the process I have saved amd merged my self insurance with my travel savings account and have $$$$$$$$$ quite a resource for any event.

[sail7seas]

Hawaiidan
Cool Cruiser Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Kailua-Kona Hawaii
Posts: 289

do a search

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I would suggest going to an insurance company directly and not through a third party sunch as American express, ( who is only going to take a slice of the pie and raise the cost.)
Getting medical evac insurance would seem like a good idea IF you are a high risk person, or suspect you are. Otherwise you need to think it through
I have medical insurance ( Kaiser) that pays for treatment in any country where I need it... so thats a non issue. Some countries like New Zealand and UK will treat a visitor with their national health plan. Check that out.

One needs too, conduct a bit of risk analysis.. are you healthy and fit with no prior problems? Is the region your going to noted for high incidents of strife. Is the time of the year likely to cause problems. are you going to take a lot of risky activites?
Think it through and come up with your own profile... and for most of us it will clearly indicate self insure is the way to go.
If you have some airling miles stashed... you have the resource to get free flights back home or changes.. all at no cost
<snip>










Where can we insure exclusively for the medical and medivac outside the country? One poster suggested American Express.

Thank you

Everyone is high risk for an accident. You may be very healthy but no one has a guarantee you won't (hopefully not) fall and have a severe broken bone requiring immediate surgery or whatever other kind of accident. Medical evacuation could bankrupt some families.

I won't directly recommend any particular company but would suggest you look at insuremytrip.com. Perhaps read policy from Travelex called Travel Max or comparables from TravelGuard and other companies. There are posters here who write both of these policies,,,,,, and others.

We also have an annual policy from MedJetAssist.com. The very good upside to this annual policy is they almost always will take you to hospital of your choice whereas most take you where they and their doctors elect. The down side is MedJetAssist does not evacuate you from a ship. They would take you from first port. In the most extreme circumstance, I would inquire if it were possible to be evacuated under coverage from my Travel policy to nearest port and then transfer to MedJetAssist once reaching shore. All that would depend upon condition we were in, what hospital the travel company was taking us to etc

At least it provides us with options.

[Nancyquilts]

Do look at insuremytrip.com. We have evacuation insurance for the period of a whole year that is less than $200 for both of us. Cheap peace of mind (assuming we never need it).

[sail7seas]

I believe it is possible AmEx Platinum memeberships include such coverage but I have not fully investigated it.

[Hawaiidan]

Un the US and Canadian Waters including all island like samoa, etc Hawaii is done my the military and is no cost through the RCC.
The military of Australia, UK and many other other countries also do this
US ships ( Navy) also operate rescue services for US citizens world wide and can transfer you to full military hospitals at no charge.

As an example a passenger on a ship 2000 miles out of Hawaii had a sever injury. The USAF rcc launched a aircraft and 2 para rescuers parachuted in the sea and were picked up by the ship in the middle of the night A CH53 long range helo was deployed to an island near the ship. refueling in flight form an air tanker. There they received an air drop of a field hospital and set it up. They then picked up the sick passenger and flew him to the MASH they set up and stabilized him and performed surg. Then they flew him ( again refueling in flight over 1500 miles) to Honnolulu to recover.
2 c130 aircraft one a tanker, a 6 person medical team. and all their equipment 2 para-rescue jumpers and a a CH53 heavy helo....
There was no charge.

Stuff like this happens all the time.... in the pacific and atlantic by the RCC internationla forces People hurt of Somalia were flown to a US Navy Carrier operating in the area or a Cruiser both of which have full cutting edge hospitals that no cruise line has or staffs.

Your chances of really needing a $100K evac policy therefor almost non-existant... and the insurance companies know that in most cases of injury or illness the good old military will be for them world wide.... free to citizens and taxpayers at no cost.