Formal Nights - Just A Suggestion

[compulsivecruiser]

Hi! We love HAL but haven't been able to cruise on Holland America for about a year. We are looking forward to our upcoming HAL cruise. We really enjoy dressing up for formal nights ( a very different experience from our regular life) but are disappointed to learn on this board that true formal nights may not be very formal anymore. My husband will still wear his tux on formal nights because it is FUN. It seems as though there are others who still enjoy dressing up on cruises. What if HAL had a Tux or dark suit ENFORCED dress code on Upper Level Dining and a more relaxed dress code for As You Wish Dining? Just A thought.

[rplc882]

Ha Ha, they do have a dress code but after 3 HAL cruises we have yet to see it enforced. We also like to dress up and have decided to eat in the Pinnacle on those formal nights as people usually dont show up in shorts and jeans there as of yet.

[RuthC]

What if HAL had a Tux or dark suit ENFORCED dress code on Upper Level Dining and a more relaxed dress code for As You Wish Dining? Just A thought.
The upper level is as much "As You Wish Dining" as the lower level.
And the dress code extends beyond both---it's for the ship, not just the dining room.

[msteries]

I, too, love the formal evenings, and had been worried about recent reports. Happy to report that many, many people were in formal attire as requested on the Nieuw Amsterdam last week. Sometimes I saw men in shorts up in the Crowes Nest early in the evening, but that was not the case anywhere near the entrances to the Manhattan, or in the Ocean Bar. The people-watching was wonderful!

[jimmy2x]

Maybe we have just been lucky, but on every cruise we have been on, the vast majority of folks do the formal night thing nicely. I've always felt that this issue, at least so far as HAL goes, is somewhat overblown.

[*Live2Cruise*]

I just packed my tux! We leave Saturday and I agree... dressing up is fun!

[pmd98052]

The dress code is for the entire ship??

I thought if you didn't want to get dressed up for formal nights etc then you could go to the Lido?

Does the dress code mean you're confined to your cabin if you're in jeans during the "evening" hours? (formal or non-formal nights)

[annde]

Yes, you can go to the Lido. Formal attire is expected in dinning room for both open seating and assigned seating and for the lounges and theater.
Of course, you can wear your kilts!
DeAnne

[pmd98052]

I didn't realize this - So on a formal night going to the show even in Khaki's would not work?

We could have dinner in the Lido but then have to retire to our stateroom for the whole evening?

(and I'm half Scottish so I could do a kilt!)

[Kathyh1313]

I didn't realize this - So on a formal night going to the show even in Khaki's would not work?

We could have dinner in the Lido but then have to retire to our stateroom for the whole evening?

(and I'm half Scottish so I could do a kilt!)


I'll probably get flamed for this....but here goes....while formal attire is the suggested attire for the night....many people do change after dinner to attend shows or otherwise be about the ship. Society as a whole has changed, we are more casual EVERYWHERE in our lives, so a cruise ship is no different. I may or may not change after dinner, but if I do I am still presentable, neat and put together. Maybe a more comfortable pair of black pants and a nice top. I would never endorse changing into what I call "pull the weeds in your garden attire".

Contrary to what you hear on these boards, no one will prevent you from attending a show in more casual clothes on formal night. The dining room may or may not be a different story.

[2buggers]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Bv45qHvO0P8/TQaBzm3BSRI/AAAAAAAABBI/Ky34EZzrTEU/s400/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[kazu]

I'll probably get flamed for this....but here goes....while formal attire is the suggested attire for the night....many people do change after dinner to attend shows or otherwise be about the ship. Society as a whole has changed, we are more casual EVERYWHERE in our lives, so a cruise ship is no different. I may or may not change after dinner, but if I do I am still presentable, neat and put together. Maybe a more comfortable pair of black pants and a nice top. I would never endorse changing into what I call "pull the weeds in your garden attire".

Contrary to what you hear on these boards, no one will prevent you from attending a show in more casual clothes on formal night. The dining room may or may not be a different story.

Kathyh is right. The dining room (MDR) will be formal, but some people do change after, or remove a tie, or whatever. i wouldn't wear khakis in the theatre but a nice pair of pants would be fine. I've never seen the dress code enforced in the bars or theatre (after all those of us on late fixed dining don't usually get dressed up until around 7 - so we aren't dressed up at 5:30 either

no flaming from me:)

[Hal&Rob]

We've taken many HAL cruises and never had a problem wearing a jacket with an open shirt or turtleneck into the dining room on formal nts.

[Esri]

Not trying to start a flame war or anything as I have no issues with formal night one way or the other, but to the OP: if you and your spouse LOVE dressing up, why does it matter to you whether other people are wearing tuxes and gowns or not?

Just to be clear, I believe the dress code should be enforced uniformly across the fleet. My question is about how other people are dressed impacts your love of getting dressed up.

[barante]

. . . because it deals with a dilemma that seems to be eternal and never gets resolved. As I stated on another site, having dragged along the tux and whole works I now opt for a blazer. I told my wife to pack light as well. With eight formal nights on our next cruise, we would need an extra cabin just for formal wear if we did it truly properly and wore something different each gala night.

[woody14h]

Many rules and regulations on board HAL ships are not enforced. Either by personnel or guests, We are lucky to see some people turned away from the MDR wearing shorts and tanks. Management is afraid to offend and lifestyles of many have become casual.

Life changes, in the 70s and 80s, one never saw casual wear on formal nights. Today it is a matter of choice. If you want to dress up then you can and enjoy the evening. One should inure oneself to those who chose otherwise.

This topic is as shown by the graphic above "the proverbial dead horse beating".

Let's move on to topics which have meaningful thoughts that might assist newbies and old salts alike in their quest for cruise information.

[pmd98052]

I'm a HAL newbie (first HAL cruise next week) and the topic of "the dress code applies to the entire ship" on formal night was new to me. Looks like that is not the case though.

[jtl513]

I'm a HAL newbie (first HAL cruise next week) and the topic of "the dress code applies to the entire ship" on formal night was new to me. Looks like that is not the case though.Yes, the dress code applies to the entire ship but it isn't enforced. The "no shorts or tees in the evening" rule is not enforced either. :(

[carlmm]

I'm a HAL newbie (first HAL cruise next week) and the topic of "the dress code applies to the entire ship" on formal night was new to me. Looks like that is not the case though.

Actually it is the case. The rules state clearly that the dress code applies to the entire ship (sans Lido).
It is just that some passengers as well as some contributors here decide to ignore the rules and to destroy the formal ambiance.

[RAYSAN11]

Yes, you can go to the Lido. Formal attire is expected in dinning room for both open seating and assigned seating and for the lounges and theater.
Of course, you can wear your kilts!
DeAnne


If the Scots can wear Kilts can Bermudians wear Bermuda Shorts!!!!?

[carlmm]

If the Scots can wear Kilts can Bermudians wear Bermuda Shorts!!!!?

:-)

Yet if somebody wants a serious answer: No. (Surprisingly ;) )

Directy quoted from http://www.bermuda-online.org/shorts.htm
"They are not formal wear; there are no black formal Bermuda shorts; and that when invitations state formal wear, they exclude Bermuda Shorts and instead mean a tuxedo USA-style or its UK equivalent, a dinner jacket, with matching long trousers and bow tie."

[lettienets]

:-)

Yet if somebody wants a serious answer: No. (Surprisingly ;) )

Directy quoted from http://www.bermuda-online.org/shorts.htm
"They are not formal wear; there are no black formal Bermuda shorts; and that when invitations state formal wear, they exclude Bermuda Shorts and instead mean a tuxedo USA-style or its UK equivalent, a dinner jacket, with matching long trousers and bow tie."
How true, in doing a search I could only find daywear.
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/lettienets/bermuda2.jpg?t=1298051313

[RAYSAN11]

:-)

Yet if somebody wants a serious answer: No. (Surprisingly ;) )

Directy quoted from http://www.bermuda-online.org/shorts.htm
"They are not formal wear; there are no black formal Bermuda shorts; and that when invitations state formal wear, they exclude Bermuda Shorts and instead mean a tuxedo USA-style or its UK equivalent, a dinner jacket, with matching long trousers and bow tie."

In that case Kilts do not meet the definition of formal wear (with or without underwear:))

[sail7seas]

Not trying to start a flame war or anything as I have no issues with formal night one way or the other, but to the OP: if you and your spouse LOVE dressing up, why does it matter to you whether other people are wearing tuxes and gowns or not?

Just to be clear, I believe the dress code should be enforced uniformly across the fleet. My question is about how other people are dressed impacts your love of getting dressed up.

I'm someone who always wore long dresses/skirts on formal nights but stopped recently. What other people wear does impact how I feel about what I wear. When I look around and see fewer ladies dressed truly formal, I feel like it is time for me to stop doing so. I was starting to feel out of place dressing formal on formal night. :rolleyes:

I now mostly wear cocktail dresses or evening pants with fancy tops but I miss the long dresses.

Sure, I know someone is already to pounce in and say 'what do I care what someone else wears' but when I feel like I'm the only one wearing truly formal, that makes me uncomfortable. I think most people understand that concept.

[RAYSAN11]

Formal wear. For all their formality, Bermudians have a different concept when it comes to formal clothes. A tux is considered formal wear, yes. However, do not be surprised to see men in Bermuda shorts, a coat, and long socks. This is perfectly acceptable. Whether you are out for a formal dinner or a wedding, you will probably see a lot of men in this outfit.
When going out to dinner, you may want to wear something that is at least smart casual even if it is just a casual night out for you. That is, unless you want to be denied entrance to a restaurant or even the hotel dining area. Bermudians take their dress codes quite seriously, as you may well find out. So leave those tattered jeans and collarless shirts behind when going out.

[Cruizer Bill]

We observe formal nights but it is apparent they are fading away to the category of "optional". I give it just a coupe of more years.

[lettienets]

In that case Kilts do not meet the definition of formal wear (with or without underwear:))
http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/lettienets/prince-charles-in-kilt.jpg?t=1298052593 Here is Prince Charles in formal kilt wear

[sapper1]

http://i662.photobucket.com/albums/uu350/lettienets/prince-charles-in-kilt.jpg?t=1298052593 Here is Prince Charles in formal kilt wear
LOL---that is the first thing that came to my mind when I read that post and then I saw your picture. :D

[KirkNC]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Bv45qHvO0P8/TQaBzm3BSRI/AAAAAAAABBI/Ky34EZzrTEU/s400/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg


Amen

Kirk

[pmd98052]

Actually it is the case. The rules state clearly that the dress code applies to the entire ship (sans Lido).


People seem to be saying that even those who get dressed up for the MDR change into more casual clothing for the shows later in the evening so this doesn't make sense to me.

Can you point me to the rule and where it calls out the Lido as the exception?

For us travelling with two kids the two formal nights look like a quick trip to the Lido then hide out in the stateroom all night for fear of upsetting people. Doesn't sound like much fun.

[peaches from georgia]

People seem to be saying that even those who get dressed up for the MDR change into more casual clothing for the shows later in the evening so this doesn't make sense to me.

Can you point me to the rule and where it calls out the Lido as the exception?

For us travelling with two kids the two formal nights look like a quick trip to the Lido then hide out in the stateroom all night for fear of upsetting people. Doesn't sound like much fun.
There is no rule to point you to because no matter what the actual dress code may state HAL does NOT enforce it. You will see dress of every kind on the ship on formal nights, including shorts and tank shirts. The constant confusion on this subject is totally HAL's fault because they refuse to enforce their own policy, in many cases in the MDR, too. Don't worry one second about it. You will have the run of the ship no matter what you are wearing and no one will think a thing about it.

[iancal]

IF we do get dressed up and attend MDR on formal nights, we usually change after dinner into something more comfortable.....as do many people. I would not worry about the 'rules'. HAL does not seem to bother with them either.

[RAYSAN11]

People seem to be saying that even those who get dressed up for the MDR change into more casual clothing for the shows later in the evening so this doesn't make sense to me.

Can you point me to the rule and where it calls out the Lido as the exception?

For us travelling with two kids the two formal nights look like a quick trip to the Lido then hide out in the stateroom all night for fear of upsetting people. Doesn't sound like much fun.

This a from the Holland America what you need to know brochure

SHIPBOARD MEALS
In addition to breakfast, lunch and a five-course dinner, you can enjoy afternoon tea, a stir-fry or pasta buffet, an ice cream bar, hot hors d’oeuvres during the cocktail hours, an evening espresso or cappuccino, and the traditional late-night snack. Try the Terrace Grill, located on the Lido Deck, featuring hamburgers, hot dogs, a taco bar and a daily special. Complimentary In-Room Dining is available 24 hours a day. Casual dining is available in the Lido Restaurant every night. Adjacent the Lido Restaurant area, Canaletto restaurant serves classic Italian cuisine with tableside service for dinners

[pmd98052]

SHIPBOARD MEALS
In addition to breakfast, lunch and a five-course dinner, you can enjoy afternoon tea, a stir-fry or pasta buffet, an ice cream bar, hot hors d’oeuvres during the cocktail hours, an evening espresso or cappuccino, and the traditional late-night snack. Try the Terrace Grill, located on the Lido Deck, featuring hamburgers, hot dogs, a taco bar and a daily special. Complimentary In-Room Dining is available 24 hours a day. Casual dining is available in the Lido Restaurant every night. Adjacent the Lido Restaurant area, Canaletto restaurant serves classic Italian cuisine with tableside service for dinners

Yup, that is what I understood. However I cannot find info that says the rest of the ship requires a suit all evening during formal nights?

Last thing we want to do is offend anyone by being in shows or lounges during the evening in jeans or khaki's - Travelling with 2 young kids there is no way we have space to bring a suit/formal dress etc etc with us as well. We were looking forward to taking the kids to the magician and musical shows. :(

[innlady1]

Yes, the dress code applies to the entire ship but it isn't enforced. The "no shorts or tees in the evening" rule is not enforced either. :(

We saw some not being allowed entrance into the MDR who were dressed in jeans and in shorts. That seems to be the only place it was enforced on the Maasdam.

[chrispb]

People seem to be saying that even those who get dressed up for the MDR change into more casual clothing for the shows later in the evening so this doesn't make sense to me.

Can you point me to the rule and where it calls out the Lido as the exception?

For us travelling with two kids the two formal nights look like a quick trip to the Lido then hide out in the stateroom all night for fear of upsetting people. Doesn't sound like much fun.
Please do not skulk away in your staterooms. We NEVER do formal and thoroughly enjoy the Lido. You can go to the cinema, watch a show, go one of the bars. There will be plenty of other people not formally dressed who will be moving around the ship.
You can even wear your bathrobe to the hot-tubs:D and have a nice, quiet soak.

[RAYSAN11]

Yup, that is what I understood. However I cannot find info that says the rest of the ship requires a suit all evening during formal nights?

Last thing we want to do is offend anyone by being in shows or lounges during the evening in jeans or khaki's - Travelling with 2 young kids there is no way we have space to bring a suit/formal dress etc etc with us as well. We were looking forward to taking the kids to the magician and musical shows. :(

According to the same document it applies to the whole evening. But how can this apply if you can go to the Lido dressed casually


The right clothing can make a big difference in the enjoyment of your cruise. First and foremost, dress for comfort. Daily life aboard ship and in ports of call is relaxed and casual. Warmer climates call for clothing made of lightweight, breathable fabrics. For cooler climates, we suggest casual clothes that can be layered easily and possibly a raincoat and waterproof hat or umbrella and gloves. Certain shore excursions may require particular attention to clothing. For example, certain churches or other places of worship may not allow tank tops or short pants. Bring a swimsuit as all of our ships have pools and whirlpools. You may wish to bring more than one outfit for the water. We ask that you wear shoes and a cover-up over a bathing suit when walking through the interior of the ship. If you would like to jog on the sports deck or work out in the fitness center, bring workout gear. Footwear should include comfortable walking shoes for visits ashore and sandals or rubber-soled shoes for strolling on deck.
Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week.
In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

[pmd98052]

You can even wear your bathrobe to the hot-tubs:D and have a nice, quiet soak.

Heh - I wish - Not much chance of that travelling with 3 and 5 year olds :)

I was planning on khaki's and button up shirt for the evenings (I don't wear T-shirts anyway) so hopefully that will be ok and not confine us to the room. With the kids we never planned to eat in the MDR anyway since it would just take too long but we did want to go to the shows.

[iancal]

I do not think that you will offend anyone by not dressing formally for the after dinner events. In reality, MANY people are dressed casually after dinner and I do not think that you would offend anyone.

Whatever you do, don't stay in your cabin. Get out and enjoy the ship with your children. Don't let fashion police put you off....their goal is to intimidate you into wearing what they feel you should be wearing or have you sit in your cabin all night. They are an insignificant minority whom you will only meet on this board...not on the ship. I cannot imagine that this is what HAL wants for it's customers. Just go and have a good time.

[jiminyC_fan]

I do not think that you will offend anyone by not dressing formally for the after dinner events. In reality, MANY people are dressed casually after dinner and I do not think that you would offend anyone.

Whatever you do, don't stay in your cabin. Get out and enjoy the ship with your children. Don't let fashion police put you off....their goal is to intimidate you into wearing what they feel you should be wearing or have you sit in your cabin all night. They are an insignificant minority whom you will only meet on this board...not on the ship. I cannot imagine that this is what HAL wants for it's customers. Just go and have a good time.

Beautifully stated!

[tip]

I do not think that you will offend anyone by not dressing formally for the after dinner events. In reality, MANY people are dressed casually after dinner and I do not think that you would offend anyone.

Whatever you do, don't stay in your cabin. Get out and enjoy the ship with your children. Don't let fashion police put you off....their goal is to intimidate you into wearing what they feel you should be wearing or have you sit in your cabin all night. They are an insignificant minority whom you will only meet on this board...not on the ship. I cannot imagine that this is what HAL wants for it's customers. Just go and have a good time.

Well said!

[erewhon]

I do not think that you will offend anyone by not dressing formally for the after dinner events. In reality, MANY people are dressed casually after dinner and I do not think that you would offend anyone.

Whatever you do, don't stay in your cabin. Get out and enjoy the ship with your children. Don't let fashion police put you off....their goal is to intimidate you into wearing what they feel you should be wearing or have you sit in your cabin all night. They are an insignificant minority whom you will only meet on this board...not on the ship. I cannot imagine that this is what HAL wants for it's customers. Just go and have a good time.

Very well stated.

pmd98052,
Before our first cruise, we shared your concerns, but once on board discovered that reality is so different from what I had read here on Cruise critic.
We always see numerous passengers casually dressed on formal nights, there were 10 formal nights our last cruise, we did not "do" every formal night, nor did we hide in our cabin those evenings.
Many people will dine in the Lido on Formal nights, go to a show etc.

[innlady1]

So many of the upscale cruise lines have eliminated "Formal Nights" that I think the HAL cruisers are feeling more comfortable not "dressing to the 9's" so much these days.

One thing I noticed on our recent cruise is that not that many folks were having photos taken on formal nights. The gal in the Photo Gallery told my husband that photo sales are way down (we bought only two - at $20 each now, that's all I felt were good enough to spend that much on!

[iancal]

.... and if you want a family portrait done on board ship you do not have to do it on the formal evening (s). You can approach the photo team and ask for a specific appointment anywhere of your choosing on board. That way, if you have children you can 'time' it right, elimate any waiting time, and get the background of your choosing. The photographers like it...they do not feel any time pressure and can take their time to get the 'right' shot... it makes a change from the usual cattle calls. You only buy the photo if you like it.

[sapete]

A balzer, slacks, shirt and tie for men and a LBD for womer covers anything. But let's just parse this a little more (this topic deserves it:rolleyes:)...
The right clothing can make a big difference in the enjoyment of your cruise. First and foremost, dress for comfort. Daily life aboard ship and in ports of call is relaxed and casual. Warmer climates call for clothing made of lightweight, breathable fabrics. For cooler climates, we suggest casual clothes that can be layered easily and possibly a raincoat and waterproof hat or umbrella and gloves. Certain shore excursions may require particular attention to clothing. For example, certain churches or other places of worship may not allow tank tops or short pants. Bring a swimsuit as all of our ships have pools and whirlpools. You may wish to bring more than one outfit for the water. We ask that you wear shoes and a cover-up over a bathing suit when walking through the interior of the ship. If you would like to jog on the sports deck or work out in the fitness center, bring workout gear. Footwear should include comfortable walking shoes for visits ashore and sandals or rubber-soled shoes for strolling on deck.
Evening dress falls into two distinct categories: Formal or Smart Casual. Smart Casual can be defined as slacks and collared shirts for men and casual dresses, slacks and informal evening wear for women. T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts are not allowed in the restaurants or public areas during the evening hours. On festive Formal evenings, ladies usually wear a suit, cocktail dress or gown and gentlemen wear a jacket and tie, dark suit or tuxedo. There are approximately two formal nights per week. In order to complement your fellow guests, Holland America Line asks that you observe the suggested dress code throughout the entire evening.

Please note the word "usually"...not must, insist, required, or even should.
"T-shirts, swimsuits, tank tops and shorts..." please note neither jeans nor denim are mentioned. Just use you head.

I love these threads...my wife was "busted" last year by a female member of the HAL "fashion police" (a passenger) last year on the Oosterdam's north-bound repositioning outside the Casino for wearing tailoered jeans on EMBARKATION night.

[iancal]

It is unfortunate that they did away with 'walking the plank' or 'keel hauling' years ago.

That fashion police busybody who 'busted' your wife would have been the ideal candidate for either excursion.

[Opinions]

]And the dress code extends beyond both---it's for the ship, not just the dining room.

Isn't the Lido dining area part of the "ship".

[Jo-Bob]

Something has always puzzled me, perhaps it's been addressed many times but still I am confused.

I know 'formal night' is commonly understood to be 'ship wide'...and is easily found in the guidelines. (at least many understand this to be the case)

So then, why, if Lido dining is offerred (and it's really a good option IMO) and it also understood that Lido is more casual, why would there then be an expectation that after dining in the Lido, one then needs to change clothes into Formal for wandering around the ship, or to go to a show? It just doesn't make sense to me.

I fully agree that Formal means Formal. Definitions are easy to find. And while I'm not a fan of it, I completely understand and respect those for whom dressing formally is really a nice event. I can imagine how lovely it might be to participate fully (but don't get me started on why I/we haven't;))

So my question remains: why provide an alternative for dining on Formal night, if the dress for the alternative is not acceptable around the ship for the remainder of the evening?? Is it just that the guidelines are out of date?

[NMLady]

Yes, you can go to the Lido. Formal attire is expected in dinning room for both open seating and assigned seating and for the lounges and theater.
Of course, you can wear your kilts!
DeAnne

So you're saying that if you choose to dress casually and eat in the Lido then you cannot go to the lounges and theater after dinner?
I know it says formal evening but I think it unfair to expect people to forego the entertainment simply because they prefer to dress casually.
For the record, on one of the formal nights I chose not to dress up. I had on nice slacks and a collared blouse. I was not turned away from the MDR nor was I barred from the theater. I think some of the CC folks are more harsh than many of the passengers are.

[jiminyC_fan]

SaPete, I can't imagine walking up to someone and addressing their choice of attire. Outside the casino on embarkation night even. Wow, that takes gall. RUDE, totally rude.

[luxurysailer]

We will be on the Amsterdam in September. Furthermore, I will wear my tux and my wife will dress appropriately for a formal evening. Hopefully everyone will dress at least nicely/neatly and there won't be any of the slovenly dress/outlandish outfits that some use as a means of drawing attention to themselves.

[Susie51]

For me, people watching is an enjoyable pass time. Formal nights are the best, so the more people who are in formal clothes, the happier I am. That's just me though. "Whatever floats your boat"

[cmerun]

:)I just packed my tux! We leave Saturday and I agree... dressing up is fun!

Yes dressing up is fun and a part of every cruise for us ! We would miss sit .. I am fine with those that dont enjoy but they should also respect those of use that do !!

[pmd98052]

I think that is where NCL has it right. If you want to get dressed up on formal nights you do - and if you don't, you don't. No one looks up or down at people who do or don't. Perfect.

[debijaynes]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Bv45qHvO0P8/TQaBzm3BSRI/AAAAAAAABBI/Ky34EZzrTEU/s400/Beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

Love it! AM in the horse show business and may use as a signature with your permission!

[2buggers]

Love it! AM in the horse show business and may use as a signature with your permission!


The Internet is full of photos and they seem to be freely available but mostly it is illegal to just steal these photos.

[iancal]

There is no such thing as ..if you are not dressed formally 'you cannot go the the lounges after dinner'. This is NOT what HAL wants.....they want as many people as possilbe in the lounges, in the casino, and in the retail outlets spending money. You will have no issue if you are dressed casually. This has been our experience.

Some lines, like Celebrity, understand this and have changed their suggested dress code for non MDR areas of the ship on formal evenings. HAL has realized it, but does not have the fortitude to officially change. That is why HAL does not enforce their own standards... because they are commercially unenforceable.

[RuthC]

For me, people watching is an enjoyable pass time. Formal nights are the best, so the more people who are in formal clothes, the happier I am. That's just me though.
Nah. It isn't "just you". There's a lot of us who care to look nice, and look at others looking nice, too.

[Randyk47]

For me, people watching is an enjoyable pass time. Formal nights are the best, so the more people who are in formal clothes, the happier I am. That's just me though. "Whatever floats your boat"

I agree with RuthC, it's not just you. :) My tux and dinner jacket go to the dry cleaners today and Mrs. K has already set aside tomorrow for checking out her formal wear for our upcoming cruise. We really look forward to the formal nights.

[luxurysailer]

For those who feel that clothes don't matter, I'd like to suggest that they watch What Not to Wear on TLC (The Learning Channel). The transformations of the subjects on this show are truly amazing. Most of them do not become real beauties, but they do become much more attractive regardless of their lack of natural attributes normally associated with physical beauty.

Although the psychological machinations that the hosts lead the subjects through get a little tiresome, it does appear that low self esteem may well often be the root cause of the subjects' slovenly dress habits. The glow of happiness on the faces of these women when they see what they can look like is enlightening. Even though the subjects are all women, the basic premise of the show would be true for men as well.

In short, if you haven't tried it, i.e. dressing up, don't knock it. It isn't absolutely necessary to wear a tux or full length evening gown. Just dress nicely: men with a coat and tie at the very least and women in something dressy. You might like what it does for you.

[iancal]

People who prefer casual attire on formal nights (not in the MDR of course) are not necessarily slobs and do not need to watch a television makeover show.

Many of those people who prefer casual are dressed in business casual. And I might add that in many instances their clothing is in style, more so than some of the formal wear that I have seen on cruises in the past few years.

The notion that it is a binary choice between ripped tshirts and dirty jeans or formal wear is a complete falsehood.

[2buggers]

http://i632.photobucket.com/albums/uu46/RosaBella75/beating_a_dead_horse.jpg

[luxurysailer]

The notion that it is a binary choice between ripped tshirts and dirty jeans or formal wear is a complete falsehood.[/quote]

You are correct, lancal. However, if you read my post I didn't imply that it was since I suggested acceptable alternatives to formal wear. The trouble is there are some for whom a ripped T-shirt and dirty jeans would be a definite improvement in their dress. It is they to whom my comment was primarily directed.

I agree that business casual attire is preferable to a ripped T-shirt and dirty jeans on a designated formal night, or for that matter any other night. However, would you mind explaining to us what makes it OK for one passenger to make a choice in what they are going to wear in contravention to the dress code and denies it to another?

[iancal]

Very simple. HAL does not have rules to contravene. They use words like suggested and requested.

Have you ever seen HAL monitor the showroom, the lounges, the casino, the shops etc. on formal nights? I suspect the answer is NO because HAL quite reasonably knows that this request will not be honored by a growing number of guests.

HAL's own request make no sense unless someone call tell me how it is possible for someone to get to and from the Lido on formal evening without violating the 'requested dress code'. HAL's approach is silly and their enforcement non existent. They should take a quick glance at how other lines have stepped up to the plate to handle this issue. Celebrity would be one example. And it works just fine.

[compulsivecruiser]

What could Holland America do so that those who choose to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves AND those who choose not to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves also?

[Brklynguy]

Just came off the Feb 11 Westerdam - formal night was about 40% tux, but most everyone was dressed up suit and tie- especially the women. They had special buffets for those that did not wish to partake. When we were on RCL it was maybe 5% tux - be we still do it. Like prom night.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Just came off the Feb 11 Westerdam - formal night was about 40% tux, but most everyone was dressed up suit and tie- especially the women. They had special buffets for those that did not wish to partake. When we were on RCL it was maybe 5% tux - be we still do it. Like prom night.

delete

[DizzyDallasDi]

What could Holland America do so that those who choose to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves AND those who choose not to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves also?

I'm not sure I understand your question. Whether I choose to dress up or not on formal night, I always enjoy myself.

[Brklynguy]

What could Holland America do so that those who choose to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves AND those who choose not to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves also?

On our Westerdam cruise, on form nights they offered a really good buffet in the enclosed pool area for those who chose not to dress up. And it's not like they would stop you from entering the dining room if you were not, but we saw no one who was not presentable. No complaints either way. Also, the dining room menu was available fro room service for most of the rooms.

[Brklynguy]

What could Holland America do so that those who choose to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves AND those who choose not to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves also?

On our Westerdam cruise, on form nights they offered a really good buffet in the enclosed pool area for those who chose not to dress up. And it's not like they would stop you from entering the dining room if you were not, but we saw no one who was not presentable. No complaints either way. Also, the dining room menu was available fro room service for most of the rooms.

[sapper1]

Very simple. HAL does not have rules to contravene. They use words like suggested and requested.
Not just on a cruise, but in all areas of life, when I see a suggested dress listed for an event, I subscribe to the convention that says a word to the wise is sufficient. It is not a question of whether I "have to" but rather I "should". It is only good manners to honour the wishes of the group that is putting on an event, whether it is a person or a corporation.

[Jo-Bob]

Not just on a cruise, but in all areas of life, when I see a suggested dress listed for an event, I subscribe to the convention that says a word to the wise is sufficient. It is not a question of whether I "have to" but rather I "should". It is only good manners to honour the wishes of the group that is putting on an event, whether it is a person or a corporation.


Hope I'm not missing your point here. But it is then not a matter of 'poor manners' to dress casually to dine in the areas for which it is appropriate.

HAL also 'puts on an event' for which not everyone is required to participate. (alternatives to Formal Night in MDR)

Probably splitting hairs, it really doesn't matter to me at all. I don't dress formally, but I'm also a long, long way from slob. There are varying degrees, and out of respect for those who really enjoy Formal Night, I do not bring my 'casual self' (which to me still means clean, high quality, fashionably appropriate, dare I say 'sophisticated' appearance) to the MDR.

Sapper: this isn`t meant for you, or `at` you. The extremes we always talk about on these threads really aren`t the way it is. We need to be a bit more balanced in our opinions. Or maybe not. Life is seldom balanced:D

[chrispb]

What could Holland America do so that those who choose to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves AND those who choose not to dress up on formal night would enjoy themselves also?
Why would they need to do anything? How anyone else dresses is none of my concern and does not impact on my enjoyment. The nonsense someone spouted about dirty/ripped jeans is hardly typical wear for the average age group of HAL passengers.

[sapper1]

Hope I'm not missing your point here. But it is then not a matter of 'poor manners' to dress casually to dine in the areas for which it is appropriate.

HAL also 'puts on an event' for which not everyone is required to participate. (alternatives to Formal Night in MDR)

Probably splitting hairs, it really doesn't matter to me at all. I don't dress formally, but I'm also a long, long way from slob. There are varying degrees, and out of respect for those who really enjoy Formal Night, I do not bring my 'casual self' (which to me still means clean, high quality, fashionably appropriate, dare I say 'sophisticated' appearance) to the MDR.

Sapper: this isn`t meant for you, or `at` you. The extremes we always talk about on these threads really aren`t the way it is. We need to be a bit more balanced in our opinions. Or maybe not. Life is seldom balanced:D
I don't disagree with what you are saying. I just meant that I have no problem adhering to requested codes, whether it is formal, cocktail, country club casual, or just plain casual. I am comfortable in any manner of dress so I am quite agreeable to going along with what is suggested.

[luxurysailer]

Hear, hear sapper1! This whole debate has to do with manners and is a symptom of the attitude of so many in our society today, i.e. "rules apply to everyone else but I am privileged and they are only suggestions to me."

But, lancal does have a point. It is difficult to enforce rules as opposed to making suggestions when dealing with paying customers, especially during an economic downturn. On the other hand, I'll bet if HAL put some creative thought into this they could come up with an incentive that would encourage more people to voluntarily observe the dress code and still not cost HAL an arm and a leg. For instance something like giving a significant discount for the purchase of any photographs taken by the ship's photographers if you're dressed in formal attire. In fact, this might actually be a source of revenue for them if it results in more sales and fewer discards of photos. Or have a roving photographer taking pictures of passengers in formal attire in the theaters, lounges, etc then hold a drawing for a prize to be given to one of those who was photographed.

[ironin]

Not just on a cruise, but in all areas of life, when I see a suggested dress listed for an event, I subscribe to the convention that says a word to the wise is sufficient. It is not a question of whether I "have to" but rather I "should". It is only good manners to honour the wishes of the group that is putting on an event, whether it is a person or a corporation.

This is so-well phrased that I can't resist complimenting you for writing it despite promises to myself to avoid dress code threads at all costs. (That's what I get for having you bookmarked, I guess *LOL*)

I'm happy to let others can engage in lawyer-like debates about the meaning of "suggested," and don't really care how others choose to dress.

[sapper1]

This is so-well phrased that I can't resist complimenting you for writing it despite promises to myself to avoid dress code threads at all costs. (That's what I get for having you bookmarked, I guess *LOL*)


I'm happy to let others can engage in lawyer-like debates about the meaning of "suggested," and don't really care how others choose to dress.

Thank you------and now you have me curious. How do you bookmark a poster? What happens after you do it?

[iancal]

HAL provides an alternative dining option for formal evenings...the Lido.

It seems incomprehensible to me that HAL would do this, and not expect those diners to frequent any other parts of the ship and go directly back to their respective cabins. This would be a going out of business strategy.

[pmd98052]

HAL provides an alternative dining option for formal evenings...the Lido.

It seems incomprehensible to me that HAL would do this, and not expect those diners to frequent any other parts of the ship and go directly back to their respective cabins. This would be a going out of business strategy.

This is the part I didn't get. I totally agree with the posters who say its polite to follow what HAL requests. Hence my original question. Since I won't be bringing formal wear I was concerned about being banished to the cabin and was wondering how I'd get to the Lido and back from the Lido without being spotted sans-formals....

I grew up in the UK and wore a suit and tie to work for years. The last thing I want to do on vacation is dress up :) With two young kids it is also logistically impossible to pack more stuff!

As I mentioned before I think NCL has the best system here - Dress up if you want and don't if you want - your choice. Looking forward to our first HAL cruise next Saturday but now very worried about the whole dress code thing.

[Kathyh1313]

This is the part I didn't get. I totally agree with the posters who say its polite to follow what HAL requests. Hence my original question. Since I won't be bringing formal wear I was concerned about being banished to the cabin and was wondering how I'd get to the Lido and back from the Lido without being spotted sans-formals....

I grew up in the UK and wore a suit and tie to work for years. The last thing I want to do on vacation is dress up :) With two young kids it is also logistically impossible to pack more stuff!

As I mentioned before I think NCL has the best system here - Dress up if you want and don't if you want - your choice. Looking forward to our first HAL cruise next Saturday but now very worried about the whole dress code thing.

Please don't worry. Enjoy your cruise. Go to the shows. Do not let comments on this board discourage you from your enjoyment of your vacation. Resort or business casual is fine. You already said you were having dinner in the lido....

People who have late dinner seating may still be walking around in shorts, bathing suits and cover-ups while early seating diners are "dressed" for formal night. No one is banishing them to their cabins!

You are the only one who will banish yourself to your cabin if you choose to not go out on formal night. No one from HAL security will drag you from a lounge or show.

Enjoy the shows in your khakis and polo tops....as the song says....Don't worry....Be Happy! :D

Happy cruising- Kathy (who is only packing black pants and dressy tops to wear on formal night on the Noordam in a few weeks)

[iancal]

pmd98052....I asked about this question when speaking to an executive officer (hotel) on a recent Celebrity cruise. Celebrity does not expect its cruisers who do not wish to wear formal in the MDR to stay in their cabins. In fact, one of the first things that this officer said was that Celebrity did not expect, nor did they want customers who preferred casual on those evenings to stay in their cabins. They want them to have a great cruise and to RETURN on another cruise-hopefully a Celebrity cruise. He went on to say that in his opinion, and the line's, it would be an unreasonable request and would ensure that those customers never returned to a Celebrity venue-something that he clearly did not want. His final comment was that it could nt be enforced and that it was not necessary ..this made the decision an easy one. I was actually shocked when he approached me. I was sitting outside reading my book. The officer came along, said hello, introduced himself, asked about the cruise, and then we engaged in a conversation covering a variety of cruise related subjects. We had something in common given that we had both lived in Vancouver for quite some time.

[ironin]

Thank you------and now you have me curious. How do you bookmark a poster? What happens after you do it?

Oops! Didn't mean to post and run. Sorry about the delayed reply. By "bookmark" I meant using the option here on CC to make a personal list of "Favorite" posters. I have a somewhat eclectic mix of about a dozen or so posters whose comments I enjoy or find especially informative. Because most of them don't usually appear on the threads I am likely to frequent, it makes it easier to occasionally click on their names and then their statistics to read what they've been up to recently.

[pmd98052]

Thanks everyone - all this needless ambiguity on HAL's part is a shame.

I'm sure they don't want guests who are in simple smart casual dress to have to miss shows or lounges on formal evenings either - It is strange though that this is not made clear. There is plenty of room for interpretation in either direction.

Thinking about it further this evening I just realized we need to get the kids (3 and 5) some "smart casual" clothes just so they can be anywhere on the ship in the evenings at all. :(

Things are certainly much simpler on NCL.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Thanks everyone - all this needless ambiguity on HAL's part is a shame.

I'm sure they don't want guests who are in simple smart casual dress to have to miss shows or lounges on formal evenings either - It is strange though that this is not made clear. There is plenty of room for interpretation in either direction.

Thinking about it further this evening I just realized we need to get the kids (3 and 5) some "smart casual" clothes just so they can be anywhere on the ship in the evenings at all. :(

Things are certainly much simpler on NCL.

Please quit fretting about this. It's really not a big deal and you and your kids will be welcome in any venue (except the MDR) on formal night dressed in smart casual outfits. Many people have stated this is the case so I don't know why you continue to be concerned. :confused:

In fact, given the ages of your kids they won't be glanced at twice if dressed in shorts or jeans and t-shirts. Enjoy your cruise!

[pmd98052]

Please quit fretting about this. It's really not a big deal and you and your kids will be welcome in any venue (except the MDR) on formal night dressed in smart casual outfits. Many people have stated this is the case so I don't know why you continue to be concerned.

I'll try to enjoy it. Many people have stated both sides of this debate so we'll see how it goes on board. We'll post a full review when we get back....

[Crazy Gramps]

From my past experiences HAL doesn't enforce much.
Had the 12 year old looking like a hooker in the panio bar at midnight with her Dad.
Had the family with 5 kids, ages ranging from 6 months to 10 years old, in the Ocean Bar.
The guy in shorts and a t-shirt in the MDR on a formal night. If a man wants to wear a jacket and a golf shirt I don't have a problem with it at all.

It's a major reason I won't be sailing HAL again.
But there are other reasons

Gramps

[chrispb]

From my past experiences HAL doesn't enforce much.
Had the 12 year old looking like a hooker in the panio bar at midnight with her Dad.
Had the family with 5 kids, ages ranging from 6 months to 10 years old, in the Ocean Bar.
The guy in shorts and a t-shirt in the MDR on a formal night. If a man wants to wear a jacket and a golf shirt I don't have a problem with it at all.

It's a major reason I won't be sailing HAL again.
But there are other reasons

Gramps
But your countdown shows you are sailing with HAL in March?

[pmd98052]

The guy in shorts and a t-shirt in the MDR on a formal night.

How does that even happen? I fully recognize that even smart casual isn't appropriate on formal nights so I plan to stay away. How does the MDR even admit someone with shorts/t-shirt - even if it was a regular night?

The only issue I have with the MDR is how long people say dinner takes there. I like a leisurely dinner sometimes but 2.5 hours is stretching it!!

Do they speed it up if you say you want to be in/out quickly?

[Crazy Gramps]

But your countdown shows you are sailing with HAL in March?

And if I could have gotten my beloved bride to cancel we wouldn't be.
But she knows this is the last cruise

Gramps

[mamadot]

Like that idea of Bermuda shorts! Good retort! Also like that "beating a horse to death" cartoon......

[cruzmann]

I'm packing my lederhosen. This is going to be a great cruise.
Only one generation removed from Deutschland so I think I qualify under these rules..

[Briley11]

My wife & I will be away for a month including 7 nights cruising & so having to cart a so called formal outfit for just 1 night is too much excess weight. Nevertheless we will be dressed presentably yet casually. I may even take a coat with me.

[bradpole]

First off I have to say it is good that this particular thread has remained civil. Over in the Celebrity boards they can downright brutal, and nasty!

I do not think that you will offend anyone by not dressing formally for the after dinner events. In reality, MANY people are dressed casually after dinner and I do not think that you would offend anyone.

Whatever you do, don't stay in your cabin. Get out and enjoy the ship with your children. Don't let fashion police put you off....their goal is to intimidate you into wearing what they feel you should be wearing or have you sit in your cabin all night. They are an insignificant minority whom you will only meet on this board...not on the ship. I cannot imagine that this is what HAL wants for it's customers. Just go and have a good time.
Well said!

I think that is where NCL has it right. If you want to get dressed up on formal nights you do - and if you don't, you don't. No one looks up or down at people who do or don't. Perfect.
Not only NCL. Oceania, Azamara, and even Regent have adopted country club casual/smart casual dress codes. Those who truly enjoy dressing up, do. Those who get no enjoyment from dressing up, don’t. They make so much more sense, everyone can be comfortable and no one is banished to the Lido or room service for that evening.
Even Carnival has recently caught onto the formal night optional bandwagon. Their version is “elegant night.” Those who want to dress to the nines do, and those who don’t simply go smart casual. I will add this comment, in October we did one week on Carnival Freedom and the next week on Eurodam. Overall I’d say the Carnival guests on the optional formal night had better “compliance” with traditional formalwear attire than the Eurodam guests. Perhaps optional made it more desirable?

So you're saying that if you choose to dress casually and eat in the Lido then you cannot go to the lounges and theater after dinner?
I know it says formal evening but I think it unfair to expect people to forego the entertainment simply because they prefer to dress casually.
For the record, on one of the formal nights I chose not to dress up. I had on nice slacks and a collared blouse. I was not turned away from the MDR nor was I barred from the theater. I think some of the CC folks are more harsh than many of the passengers are.
I agree! In all honesty I don’t see anything special that requires a jacket and tie one night and not the next. The people are the same, the service is the same, the servers are the same, the food is basically the same. But one night requires a jacket and tie and the other doesn’t?

For the record I currently participate in “formal night,” I don’t enjoy it, but I enjoy dinner in the MDR. I just wish country club casual was the required dress with the option to dress more formal if you desired. What someone else wears to dinner, the theater, the lounges, etc… has absolutely no impact on how I enjoy my evening.

[iancal]

We will be booking a TA this fall. Not sure which ship, which line. But it will be after spending 7 or 8 weeks in South Africa and Europe. I can say without a word of doubt that we will not be taking any formal clothing, shoes etc, we will not be eating in the MDR on formal evening, but will most definately will be 'out and about' enjoying the ship while wearing our casual clothes. This is a revolving door argument. People who want formal will not change, and likewise for crowd who prefer casual. And the people that post and read on this board are a very small minority.

[JJGlanton]

Basically, it's your vacation, so you should wear whatever you like that makes you feel comfortable.

Of course if everyone around you is formally dressed, you probably won't feel 'comfortable' in ripped jeans and a dirty t-shirt.

On formal nights, I felt very comfortable with khaki's and a sportcoat - no tie - however there were some fellas in polo shirts and the like and they looked just fine.

For the people who like to dress up, they are able to do so if that is their heart's desire. And those who like to dress down and pack light can do the same :D

[Gotta Go Cruisin]

I'll try to enjoy it. Many people have stated both sides of this debate so we'll see how it goes on board. We'll post a full review when we get back....

PMD
Hope you don't mind my 2 cents. I can understand your feelings about the debate that goes on back and forth on these boards about this subject. I can tell you from personal experience that many of the opinions about how to dress come from ones own personal preference and bias. Yes, there are guidelines published by the Cruiseline, but in reality they are only suggestions. The DW and I are experienced cruisers and before our one and only HAL cruise last year, I inquired about the "Dress Code". I wished I hadn't. Many of the responses left me questioning why I had booked a cruise with them (HAL). So we left the formal clothes home. The DW and I made a conscious decision to not eat in the MDR based on the stories told on these boards. The stories didn't match the experience. It was a wonderful 14 day adventure that ranks as one of our top two or three cruise experiences. The most important thing to remember is, it's your vacation and if you are enjoying yourself that's all that matters. Have Fun :)

[JJGlanton]

Looking at the devastation today resulting from the earthquake and tsunami in Japan reminds me to count my blessings and be thankful.

When we see that kind of horrific carnage, it puts silly things like 'dress codes' into perspective.

Life is too short and too fragile - let's not waste our precious time by obsessing about what people should be wearing on 'formal nights'. Live and let live. Enjoy and appreciate what what you have, dress however you like, and don't waste energy trying to judge and control others.

This is my final word in the matter.