Bumped from Oosterdam 10-29-05 for lesbian cruise--anyone else had this happen?!

[lisabrooke1130]

Hi all!

Just found out that the 10-29-05 sailing of the Oosterdam has been chartered by a lesbian travel group www.olivia.com and the rest of us who are booked are being bumped.

My travel agent says to sit tight and see what they offer us in terms of compensation. She said that they would reimburse for airfare (if we cancelled) or the airfare change fee (should we change to another cruise). We actually are using FF miles, so I have no idea if I can even change or not or get the miles put back into our account. We were sailing on this cruise for our anniversary--we were married on the Oosterdam in 2003, we sailed in 2004 for our first anniversary, and this was to be our second anniversary cruise. So, for sentimental reasons, I don't think we will switch to another cruise. Also, it looks like the 11-05-05 Oosterdam cruise might be chartered by another group, because it along with the 10-29-05 cruise has disappeared from the HAL website.

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with this? What might HAL do for us? I wouldn't mind traveling with the lesbians, but the TA said that HAL said that NO MALE PASSENGERS will be allowed on this cruise.

Any advice?
Thanks!!

[lawyersinlove]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

Otherwise, I'd demand that HAL make you perfectly whole and buy your air tickets at face value plus costs. Plus a refund of your cruise and immediate placement on a similar cruise ship at their cost at a date convenient to you. When they booked the Olivia charter they knew there were already passengers booked and they deliberately choose to harm you by denying you the benfit of the contract you entered with HAL.

[pollux]

Sue HAL?
In which country?
I think Carnival is the big cahuna.
Hope you have enough money.
Change your dates and take the offer from HAL .
Its only my opinion why ask more trouble then you can handle.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Did you TA just get the call from HAL? I just checked cruise dot com has this cruise available with a lot of cabins for very good prices. I had booked last July for October 8th on the Oosterdam because thier prices were fantastic. This site is usually really up to date. I normally book thru a local TA but she could not come close to the price I paid so I booked on line. I just hope we don't get bumped.

[Globaliser]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

Otherwise, I'd demand that HAL make you perfectly whole and buy your air tickets at face value plus costs. Plus a refund of your cruise and immediate placement on a similar cruise ship at their cost at a date convenient to you. When they booked the Olivia charter they knew there were already passengers booked and they deliberately choose to harm you by denying you the benfit of the contract you entered with HAL.I believe that the terms of the contract allow the cruise line to bump you off if the ship is going on a full charter - basically, the public cruise is cancelled. (So bang goes any "common carrier" argument at that time.) HAL ought to reimburse you everything, and IIRC most cruise lines go beyond that as a matter of course.

Once the ship's been chartered, I suspect that the group that has chartered the cruise won't be under the same restrictions as to who they can sell to and who they can choose not to sell to.

For a description of what happened when RCI did this for a similar cruise that's just been and gone, see this thread (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=23146). (And if you want to see them, here's a thread with photos (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=137015) from that cruise.)Did you TA just get the call from HAL? I just checked cruise dot com has this cruise available with a lot of cabins for very good prices.Well, Olivia's now advertising the Oosterdam cruise.

[wander]

First, I understand your disappointment and am sorry for you. I know what it is like to have vacation plans turned up-side down. No fun! It has happened to us several times, only once with HAL, but with some other lines as well.

Now in terms of what to do, I would take your TA's excellent advice. Wait and see what HAL offers you.

In my experiences with cruise lines, when something changed so drastically, they treated those who were patience very, very well. For those who went into an immediate tizzy, they were not as generous. This was true with our HAL experience (what a deal our TA was able to negotiate!!!!) and even better with another line after 9/11. In the latter case, for a 32 day cruise, those who panicked and made threats, screamed and yelled on these boards, and then cancelled (after full payment, no refund), were foolish. Those of us who waited got an offer that was hard to turn down (14 days added to the cruise which was drastically re-routed, $2000 back pp and all tips paid by the cruise line ) OR we could get our full fare back). Oh, and they also refunded our money for a visa we had to purchase for the original itinerary, and was no longer needed for the revised itinerary.

In the interim, keep track of what all it actually costs you (keep receipts) out of pocket because of having to change your travel plans. For example, with our FF miles program, we can re-deposit the miles back into our account, but there was a processing fee. If this happens to you, keep the evidence of the reprocessing fee and proof that you paid it.

Once you know what HAL will or will not offer you, try to negotiate if you think it necessary. If you still consider it unfair, then is the time to get upset. Until you know what their offer or options will be, it is waisted energy in my opinion, to get overly upset. But do keep receipts!

[heyabbott]

Sue HAL?
In which country?
I think Carnival is the big cahuna.
Hope you have enough money.
Change your dates and take the offer from HAL .
Its only my opinion why ask more trouble then you can handle.

They certainly do business in the US and are headqurtered in Seattle. They are cerainly open to being sued in Federal Court in either Washington, Florida or the state where the plaintiff resides.

[trubey]

I just found the Olivia website listing the following charters (unless I make a typo):


April 3 Westerdam
May 8 Vendam
Sep 3 Oosterdam
Oct 29 Oosterdam

http://gay-travel.edirp.com/index.asp?site=22202&tide=2407366

The number of charters seems to be increasing. These were listed on the site as "women only". I totally understand the concept of a woman-only cruise, but I can't justify anyone's reservations and plans needing to be changed because of it.

Susan.

[lisabrooke1130]

Ok, I don't think I will be suing anybody--not my style, nor do I feel so violated that I could only get "payback" through the court system. I am disappointed, but not angry.

I called Delta (through who we booked using FF miles). It will be $50 per ticket to either redeposit the miles back in the account or change the ticket. Problem is, if I wait too much longer, there may be no FF seats available for when/where I want to go. I actually booked 10 months out because Delta is so bad about filling up their precious few FF seats way ahead of time. I may have to cancel outright.

Thank you for your advice everyone, particularly WANDER. We are going to wait it out for a couple of weeks and see what happens. A good offer for another cruise would certainly ease my "pain".

LAFFNVEGAS--Someone on my CC roll call provided the information about Olivia.com chartering the Oosterdam. Based on this, I called my TA who called HAL. She had not heard about it until I called. She said that HAL told her that everyone who had previously booked would be bumped, but that HAL had not yet contacted anyone nor had they worked out what they were going to offer people. I bet if you tried to book through a third-party site, once you got down to hooking into HAL's computers to choose a cabin, it would halt the reservation process. The back-end (the actual booking) is probably ahead of the front-end (the on-line advertising). Again, HAL's website doesn't list this cruise anymore. It disappeared!

[cru1s1ng]

That's not very nice of them (HAL or Olivia). I'm very curious about what you recieve in return.

[bepsf]

Lisa--


I feel so badly for you - I wish that HAL would only allow charters to be booked when their schedules are announced they way they do w/ RSVP so that their other passengers arent' disappointed.

I have no doubt that you'd be fine if you were to book on Olivia (you'd probably be hit on more than a few times...) but I have the feeling that your husband might be made to feel very uncomfortable by some of the ladies on board who would feel that he is invading their space - after all, they kinda book Olivia to get away from men...

Have you considered Ryndam? Looks like a similar itinerary and you'd get to enjoy the new SOE upgrades - maybe HAL can make it worth your while and get you a nice upgrade?

LIL -
I fail to see "deliberate harm" in this case - nobody's life is being endangered and there is clearly no vendetta against this couple either by HAL or Olivia. I also believe the cruise contract allows HAL to cancel passenger reservations for whatever reason they deem fit.

[Iggipolka]

I've been on an Olivia cruise and other travel arranged through them. As an Olivia customer, I have to say that their trips are absolutely fantastic. The cruise I was on was without doubt, the best vacation I have ever had.

That being said, I can certainly understand being upset about being bumped off of a cruise due to it being chartered. Heck, if the cruise I have scheduled was suddenly chartered, I'd be pissed off too!

I've seen the October 29-Nov5th cruise being advertised on Olivia's website for quite some time. I'm very surprised that HAL has kept the ship open for booking by non-Olivia pax. The cruise should have been removed form HAL's website a long time ago.

I won't even address the "discrimination" issue, becuase that's just plain silly. There are plenty of other companies that charter cruises for specific groups of people, so Olivia is far from unique in that respect.

The real issue for the OP and other's booked on this cruise and other cruises that have been chartered, is how to work through the anger & dissapointment of having a very much look forward vacation suddenly disappear as well as what kind of compensation HAL can/will offer.

[weluvcruisin']

We had something very similar happen to us. We also had used air miles so could not change them. We received a $200.00 shipboard cruise to use on our next cruise.

We booked something else not exactly what we wanted but hey we were cruising, was one of our best cruises and we enjoyed the $200 credit.

[Iggipolka]

I just looked on the HAL website and the October 29th Mexico cruise on the Oosterdam is no longer listed or bookable on their site. There is an October 28th Mexico cruise on the Ryndam that is avaliable.

[torpeedo]

We just got off the Westerdam on 2/20 and the cruise staff told us that this current cruise is a gay charter. Not sure if male or female or both.. So the Westerdam 2/20-2/27 is also a gay charter. Don't know what travel group etc. This sure seems like HAL is chartering more cruises after they opened their bookings ( doesn't matter who they charter to, it's just so disappointing to those who book in advance and make big plans etc)

[bepsf]

We just got off the Westerdam on 2/20 and the cruise staff told us that this current cruise is a gay charter. Not sure if male or female or both.. So the Westerdam 2/20-2/27 is also a gay charter. Don't know what travel group etc. This sure seems like HAL is chartering more cruises after they opened their bookings ( doesn't matter who they charter to, it's just so disappointing to those who book in advance and make big plans etc)

Its an RSVP cruise - it was chartered over a year ago before the HAL schedule came out and before anyone booked it directly w/ HAL.

[discjoker]

I won't even address the "discrimination" issue, becuase that's just plain silly. There are plenty of other companies that charter cruises for specific groups of people, so Olivia is far from unique in that respect.

Please accept my apologies if this ends up derailing this thread but.....

Let me ask you a question, if a group chartered a ship and said that no black people were allowed or no white people allowed would you consider that discrimination? After all, many people believe that you are born with your sexual orientation (in other words you have no choice in the matter). Isn't that the same with your race? And the same with your gender? Just some food for thought, and sorry again if this is way off topic (I don't think it is).

[xpcdoojk]

They certainly do business in the US and are headqurtered in Seattle. They are cerainly open to being sued in Federal Court in either Washington, Florida or the state where the plaintiff resides.

Another lawyer?:rolleyes:

My company has chartered a cruise with RCI for next year 2006. It is not a complete charter like the Olivia or Atlantis cruises, but it will be over 50% of the capacity of the ship. As a general cruiser, I would not like to be on the same cruise with a special interest group. HAL, in my opinion, is doing you a favor by bumping you off the cruise. Groups tend to get a lot of attention from the cruise staff and may make non group members feel like second class citizens. This is a pretty common complaint I have read in these forums over the last several years. Make sure that they make you whole and start over there are lots of cruises out there to choose from.:)

jc

[Iggipolka]

This is off topic from what the OP had asked and probably should be started in another thread. I'm going to start a thread titled "Chartered Cruises" to continue this discussion.

[kryos]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.

What's the point, though? Wouldn't you feel out of place sailing on a cruise where everyone else was lesbian couples? And, that comment has nothing to do with being discriminatory. I know I would feel out of place cruising on a voyage as a single that was strictly for honeymooners. You just wouldn't have anything in common with your fellow cruisers. Would make for a pretty boring week, in my opinion.

Half the reason I cruise is to meet so many interesting and diverse people. If everyone onboard was affiliated with one particular lifestyle or interest that I did not share, it would make for a pretty boring cruise for me.

I would focus on trying to get the best "settlement" that I could for being bumped and let it go at that. Also, I think the cruiselines have a "clause" in their contract that permits them to pull a voyage if they can charter the whole boat to a special interest group. It's just the way it is. They want to make money on every sailing and a group cruise often involves big bucks for the cruiseline.

FWIW, this is exactly the reason I refuse to book 7-day cruises any longer ... even if it is actually two 7-day b2b's. It's those 7-dayers that will get snapped up as charters ... usually the longer sailings don't.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[heyabbott]

What's the point, though? Wouldn't you feel out of place sailing on a cruise where everyone else was lesbian couples? And, that comment has nothing to do with being discriminatory. I know I would feel out of place cruising on a voyage as a single that was strictly for honeymooners. You just wouldn't have anything in common with your fellow cruisers. Would make for a pretty boring week, in my opinion.

Half the reason I cruise is to meet so many interesting and diverse people. If everyone onboard was affiliated with one particular lifestyle or interest that I did not share, it would make for a pretty boring cruise for me.

I would focus on trying to get the best "settlement" that I could for being bumped and let it go at that. Also, I think the cruiselines have a "clause" in their contract that permits them to pull a voyage if they can charter the whole boat to a special interest group. It's just the way it is. They want to make money on every sailing and a group cruise often involves big bucks for the cruiseline.

FWIW, this is exactly the reason I refuse to book 7-day cruises any longer ... even if it is actually two 7-day b2b's. It's those 7-dayers that will get snapped up as charters ... usually the longer sailings don't.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Melissa Ethridge will be playing on the cruise. That beats an Elton John impersonator and a juggler.

[xpcdoojk]

Up to a point I agree, they can and should tell prospective pax, up front, that the ship will be largely a charter group. A charter of lesbians would not be a problem for me or anyone I call a friend.

But once they book you, shouldn't they have a responsbility to insure that you are taken care of. So, if they do bump you, they shold already have a plan. Not leave in the lurch and worrying.

So they should book you on another cruise without your input? :confused: HAL isn't doing this in a vacuum. They are not the only line that accepts charters. All cruiselines do this. Bookings for charters typically occur after the schedules are published not before. For example our company charter was booked last month, but the schedule had been out for 4 months. I am sure that people had already booked that cruise. We will be just over half of the capacity of the ship. I would not book that cruise if I wasn't part of our group if it was me. Unfortunately, if RCI tells the booked passengers this they will cancel their bookings, and everyone else in the future would not book the cruise if they were smart, therefore instead of sailing at 90% capacity or more next February they would sail at say 75% capacity. That would seem to be a bad financial decision for the cruiseline. Business entities rarely "intentionally" make bad decisions. ;) In other words the world is not exactly fair. In the real world most people will never know they are on a chartered cruise until they show up. Hopefully, it will have zero impact on them, but you never know. I have nothing against alternative lifestyles, but I am pretty sure I would feel a lot more uncomfortable with my DW on a lesbian cruise than one with a shipload of evangelical christians, but I would prefer to be on neither group cruise. ;) I am so glad you cleared up your fear of christians with all of us.:rolleyes:

jc

[xpcdoojk]

Yeah, if I had a DW I think I'd be more worried that she would convert on the former type of cruise than the latter. :D

I don't think DW wants to play on the other team, but she is a very beautiful woman, and I am sure that the other team would hit on her! :D :eek:

jc

[ekerr19]

I'd contact olivia.com, (800) 631-6277, and ask them why they are so discriminatory. Then I'd contact a civil right attorney and sue HAL and Olivia.com for violation of your civil rights. I beleive that HAL is a common carrier and a public accomodation and cannot discriminate. It's not my area of expertise, but it's a suggestion.


And people wonder why the courts are clogged with nuisance lawsuits and the cost of legitimate legal representation has skyrocketed... ;)

[1cruiselvr]

My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised this lawyer missed the opportunity to call for a class action lawsuit - that always makes the lawyers fat and the individual left with next to nothing. Too many lawyers in this world with nothing better to do than clog our legal system with frivilous lawsuits. Happy Sailing!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Ditto for me!!! Lisa had a very real issue and came on for some ideas and help and right away someone posts "Sue the b**#@!s!!" Geez!

I know this can happen ... heard it often has, but I think everyone's right: Follow your TAs advice and go another time. But I feel really badly for you.

[Himself]

It is far enou gh out that one would be able to make other plans, in my opinion. I sure would not want to be on a gay or lesbian cruise. I say that because I think my presence would be resented.
Himself

[bepsf]

My thoughts exactly. I'm surprised this lawyer missed the opportunity to call for a class action lawsuit - that always makes the lawyers fat and the individual left with next to nothing. Too many lawyers in this world with nothing better to do than clog our legal system with frivilous lawsuits. Happy Sailing!

I wanted to say that - but didn't want to be accussed of slamming someone directly...

[JDee]

Waiting for the next Weight Watchers charter...At least I won't gain that extra baggage. Still haven't gotten rid of that Xmas/NY & 12/14 didn't help either..http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon9.gif

And am sailing again this Sat...http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon7.gif

[cru1s1ng]

I wouldn't want to be on a gay cruise either - and I'm gay :eek:

[Iggipolka]

I wouldn't want to be on a gay cruise either - and I'm gay :eek:

ok..now I'm curious. Why not?

[HeatherInFlorida]

Well, I'm not sure was Cru1s1ng's reason is, but I sure wouldn't want to go on an AA cruise and I'm an alcoholic.

And I wouldn't want to go on an all-women's cruise either (and I'm a woman). But you might be able to talk me into an all guys cruise:D ... I'm just about at the age where that would be fun for me.

[cru1s1ng]

ok..now I'm curious. Why not?

I wouldn't want to limit myself to just one group. (And I'd have to make sure my hair was perfect all the time.) :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

I wouldn't want to limit myself to just one group. (And I'd have to make sure my hair was perfect all the time.) :D

Too funny:D ... that was a good one, Cru1s1ng!

[cru1s1ng]

Seriously though, it would just not be the experience I'm looking for. I've seen photos, and it looks like a floating meat market. Not the elegant cruising experience at all (not that there's anything wrong with that.)


The prices charged are outrageous, also. I looked up an RSVP cruise and it was almost triple :eek:

[tomc]

I like the diversity of the great mix of pax on a general cruise. I fit into several niche categories, but I'd never cruise with them; I get enough as it is. Give me blacks, whites, orientals; women, men; straight, GLBT; old, mid, young; angels, humans, devils; earthlings, aliens; zygotes, centenarians.

That's why I like cruising. You learn so much from each other. If I went on a charter full of straight middle-aged Catholic white broadcasters from the USA, I'd probably jump off the Sky Deck. Gimme variety any day.

[Iggipolka]

Ya, the prices are outragous for chartered cruises. The Olivia cruise leaves two weeks before the one I'm on in November and I would have loved to have gone on that cruise. The cost was just prohibitive, espicially for a solo traveler.
I wonder if there's a difference between the cruises for gay men and the cruises for lesbians as the Olivia cruise I was on didn't have that meat market feel to it. It just felt very comfortable. 'course, I'm an old married woman, so I didn't participate in any of the singles activities either. *shrug* I donno..just talking off the top of my head here.

[bepsf]

But you might be able to talk me into an all guys cruise:D ... I'm just about at the age where that would be fun for me.


Heather -

Why don't you come w/ us to Alaska in September?
It could be fun cruising together!
;)

[xpcdoojk]

Ya, the prices are outragous for chartered cruises. The Olivia cruise leaves two weeks before the one I'm on in November and I would have loved to have gone on that cruise. The cost was just prohibitive, espicially for a solo traveler.
I wonder if there's a difference between the cruises for gay men and the cruises for lesbians as the Olivia cruise I was on didn't have that meat market feel to it. It just felt very comfortable. 'course, I'm an old married woman, so I didn't participate in any of the singles activities either. *shrug* I donno..just talking off the top of my head here.

There was a recent Atlantis cruise on a RCI ship, and they have posted pictures in a thread over at the RCI forum here. I would say that it was outlandish, the parties were intense, and I have never seen a picture with so many people around the pool. Honestly there were so many on the top two decks for a party it is pretty amazing the ship didn't top over!;) :D The costumes these people wore were pretty amazing, too. I am talking major efforts. One of my friends in these forums is gay, and he jumped all over the OP about how passe` gratuitous sex was until it was pulled. Personally, I think whatever makes you happy is fine with me as long as nobody gets hurt, but I would not have wanted to be on that ship at that time. :D The women looking at the pictures were all depressed because their significant others don't look as good as the guys on that cruise. They were predominantly buff and fine looking men. :D

I prefer a vacation without too much of anything, including diversity!


jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather -

Why don't you come w/ us to Alaska in September?
It could be fun cruising together!
;)

I would love to! So sweet of you to ask! But I can't ... we're going on the LA to FLL in October. But we all MUST do a cruise one day. We would have so much fun.

[Globaliser]

There was a recent Atlantis cruise on a RCI ship, and they have posted pictures in a thread over at the RCI forum here.I posted the links a bit further up this thread, but in case it helps: "For a description of what happened when RCI did this for a similar cruise that's just been and gone, see this thread (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=23146). (And if you want to see them, here's a thread with photos (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=137015) from that cruise.)"

[Golfgrl1911]

Out of curiosity sake I looked up the prices for the April -7 night- Olivia cruise to the eastern caribbean...$2999.00 PLUS $370.00 additional charges per person for an SS Suite!! I am paying less than a third of that amount pp for the same itinerary, same cabin category!! Who's getting rich from this one.. Olivia or HAL?? Certainly HAL could never expect to ask this amount for an SS Suite and expect to fill the ship..so why not bump existing passengers and charter to a group that can get away with charging these exorbidant inflated prices!! N categories were selling for $1500.00 plus.. still less that my SS!! Now I understand that I will not have Melissa Ethridge performing a concert on my cruise but I still can't justify paying over $2000.00 more for that privilege. Nancy

[Renorita]

Wow I just got back from a non-cruise vacation and read this thread. We also are scheduled for this Cruise. What a bummer! So far no word from anyone about this. And we had a great deal of $795pp for an SS cabin, plus 2 free meals at the pinnacle, 2 bottles of wine and a video of the Cruise. Now what??? :( I have been reading about everyone's recent trip on the "O" and telling them that we will be on her on the 29th of Oct. Guess not.

[kryos]

Waiting for the next Weight Watchers charter...At least I won't gain that extra baggage. Still haven't gotten rid of that Xmas/NY & 12/14 didn't help either..[img]

A Weight Watchers cruise!?!?!?!?

Isn't that a bit of a contradiction in terms? :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Out of curiosity sake I looked up the prices for the April -7 night- Olivia cruise to the eastern caribbean...$2999.00 PLUS $370.00 additional charges per person for an SS Suite!! I am paying less than a third of that amount pp for the same itinerary, same cabin category!! Who's getting rich from this one.. Olivia or HAL??
In all fairness, though, I will say that the reason you pay more on those group cruises is because they do have a full range of programming for you while onboard. But, then ... you pay for all those suites their staff members get for free. Someone has to absorb them.

I did a Maui Writers Conference cruise last March. I paid far more for that cruise, traveling with a cabinmate, than I have paid for any cruise since with single supplement. But, on that cruise every sea day was packed with special classes, workshops, and other group activities. You don't get all that when you just book a cruise on your own.

That said, still ... I don't think I would take a group cruise again only because I can't see spending all that extra money. I am going on a 15-day Hawaii cruise in April, have a cabin to myself, and am paying slightly less than I paid for the writer's conference cruise ... a 10-day Panama Canal itinerary where I had to share my cabin with another writer. But, then ... on that writer's cruise, we had a full staff of teachers and workshop leaders, all of which received their cabins (in many cases, suites) absolutely free of charge. It was us, the attendees, who were paying for them ... which naturally drives up the cost of the cruise considerably.

I guess it depends on what you are looking for. Some of these group cruises can be a lot of fun, more fun than you can have just going on your own ... but the question is, do you feel it's worth it to pay all that additional?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Melissa Ethridge will be playing on the cruise. That beats an Elton John impersonator and a juggler.
Oh, now ... I think that juggler ... I believe "Edge" was his name ... was kinda cute. And, Joel Mason was an absolute doll ... and nice too! He was kind enough to let me interrupt him while he was doing his email in the internet center so that I could get a photo with him.

Now, who's Melissa Ethridge? :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RedmondCruiser]

Lisa Brooke --- The best advice given on this thread is to wait and see whats offered. Bumping people off a published cruises is unpardonable - I agree, but I know several people who had booked a cruise that was overbooked. They all received great deals in compensation. The best --- Talked to a couple who booked a 3 DAY cruise (Northwest Cruise) on the Oosterdam. It was overbooked. HAL made offeres that they refused (the trick is knowing when to say yes.) What they finally got was an A cabin on a 21 day Panama Canal cruise. (not too bad ). HAL has to do something beyond giving you a total refund ---

[Renorita]

Well since our Cruise on the Oosterdam for 10/29 is going to be taken away from us, we have read on this site that two other HAl ships will be sailing that week. One is the Ryndam, that sails on the 28th (also the Mexican Riviera) and a "Big Band" dance on the Volendam that Sails on the 26th of Oct. ( Not sure where) I may be able to adjust my vacation schedule to accommodate one or the other of these. But which ship would be the best to go on, assuming that both itinerary's sound good? Of course I would hope that HAL would give us the same deal as we would have gotten on the "O". Would HAL compensate us that way do you think?

[dakrewser]

One is the Ryndam, that sails on the 28th (also the Mexican Riviera) and a "Big Band" dance on the Volendam that Sails on the 26th of Oct.

The Volendam is doing a 10-day "southern" Caribbean. So the choice is "Caribbean" or "Pacific". My advice? Go west, young lady, go west!

:) -dave

[mojodani]

Hi all!

Just found out that the 10-29-05 sailing of the Oosterdam has been chartered by a lesbian travel group www.olivia.com and the rest of us who are booked are being bumped.

My travel agent says to sit tight and see what they offer us in terms of compensation. She said that they would reimburse for airfare (if we cancelled) or the airfare change fee (should we change to another cruise). We actually are using FF miles, so I have no idea if I can even change or not or get the miles put back into our account. We were sailing on this cruise for our anniversary--we were married on the Oosterdam in 2003, we sailed in 2004 for our first anniversary, and this was to be our second anniversary cruise. So, for sentimental reasons, I don't think we will switch to another cruise. Also, it looks like the 11-05-05 Oosterdam cruise might be chartered by another group, because it along with the 10-29-05 cruise has disappeared from the HAL website.

Does anyone have any experience in dealing with this? What might HAL do for us? I wouldn't mind traveling with the lesbians, but the TA said that HAL said that NO MALE PASSENGERS will be allowed on this cruise.

Any advice?
Thanks!!


No male pax? Chumley's Bears should be cruising also, according to their website, http://hometown.aol.com/bearcruise/myhomepage/profile.html, which has been posted since last fall. We cruised on the Star Princess over Halloween with these fellas and they were quite a hoot. Maybe, they got bumped?

[lisabrooke1130]

As for the Chumley's Bears, I suspect they are being bumped too and just don't know it yet. I can't imagine they would fit in with the Olivia group!

Still no word from HAL. I checked on switching flights using the FF miles (we had originally booked to San Diego using FF miles) and there are no seats available to switch to either the 10/22 sailing of the Oosterdam or the 10/28 sailing of the Ryndam, either of which would be an acceptable substitute from our perspective. One of the reasons I booked the O-dam so early was to get the FF seats (which with Delta seem to go awfully early)!! So, I don't know what to do other than wait. As far as I am concerned, the longer HAL waits to officially notify us that we have been bumped and offer us some sort of compensation, the stronger position we are in to negotiate. Had we been told a few weeks ago, there may have been FF seats available to switch, but HAL's procrastination is going to cost them. At a bare minimum, they are going to have to pay $100 ($50 per ticket) to have my FF miles redeposited back into my account since they can not be used for this trip anymore. This is all so annoying!

Finally, I know it was somewhat provocative to include the word "lesbian" in this post title, but I wanted to get some attention to my situation (and some advice). That being said, I had no idea the conversation would get off into so many tangents. This place is so interesting! Thanks again for the help and advice. I will post again when I hear from HAL.

[tomc]

I can't imagine they would fit in with the Olivia group! Well, for one thing, you'd be able to tell them apart in an instant. At least, I hope so!

[Nautical Wheeler]

We too have been bumped from the 10/29 cruise but were able to do the 10/22 sailing and change our Delta FF miles at a cost of $100. Would have preferred to sail later but because of another charter 11/5 and inability to use FF miles as the Thanksgiving holiday got closer.......had to settle for 10/22. Got the last SS available. Anyone been in 6113? HAL better come up with some good compensation. Definitely not happy with the change of dates or all the aggravation this has caused. Not a great way to start vacation plans.:( :mad: We were on the O with you last year Lisabrooke and prefer to sail that week as we are always celebrating DH's Birthday. Like yourself we book early so we can use our FF miles. Our TA gave us the same advice........wait and see. Hope all works out well for you and that you will enjoy your anniversary. :)

[lisabrooke1130]

Nautical Wheeler!

Hi there. Would have been nice to cruise with you again, but from where we are coming from (DC area), all the Delta FF flights to San Diego to take the 10/22 cruise have been taken (or at least all the 25,000 mile tickets, which is what we originally booked using). Unless HAL is going to pick up the air, we'll have to find some other alternative. We would really like to be at sea on 11/1 (our anniversary), so the 10/22 cruise would have been my last choice.

Just curious--were you officially notified by HAL or your TA? Or, did you find out here on the boards? Sounds like you may have heard about all this mess before I did, as you have already had a chance to change your travel plans. I am still booked on the 10/29 cruise and still have my air tickets to get there the day ahead. I am afraid to change anything at this point and just wait and see what HAL will do. Any advice you have would be appreciated. Has HAL agreed to pay that $100 change fee for instance?

I hope you have a good time on the 10/22 cruise. As you know, the O-dam is a beauty and you'll get great food and service! You'll have to celebrate a faux birthday onboard instead! :-)

Lisa

[Renorita]

Nautical Wheeler and lisabrooke: As you have probably read, we too got bumped. My TA is going to call Monday and try to get us switched to the Nov 12th Cruise, same itinerary. Hope to still get an SS cabin (or better) and also hoping to get some further compensation, as I almost was not able to switch my vacation at this late date. Fortunately, that week came open, but if we they won't give it to us, we will just have to cancel. :(

[tiffnco]

I'm sailing on the 11/19 trip and would love to welcome any and all passengers who have been bumped! So far, there's only two of us cc'rs on this sailing...so come on over!

I know it's quite a difference going over Thanksgiving...but just think: no dishes :cool:

[bryanjaync]

So someone got bumped from a cruise due to a lesbian charter, and now the straight person wants to sue for discrimination based on sexual orientation. What a hoot ! Dear straight person, welcome to my world. In most states, it is perfectly legal to discriminate based on sexual orientation...that's right, you can be denied housing, hotel rooms, rental apartments, and yes, even fired from your job just because of your sexual orientation. Yes, for NO OTHER reason than you happen to be gay (or straight). So if you find a sympathic court to take up your battle, good luck ! And I will thank you for joining the battle against discriminatory practices.

[Globaliser]

So someone got bumped from a cruise due to a lesbian charter, and now the straight person wants to sue for discrimination based on sexual orientation. What a hoot !To be fair, I don't think anyone who got bumped is talking about suing. The suggestion came from someone else who hasn't been bumped. Those who have been bumped are just wanting to make sure that they're properly compensated, which would only be right. That's simply compensation for being bumped, having nothing to do with what sort of group has chartered the ship and got them bumped.

[tomc]

So someone got bumped from a cruise due to a lesbian charter, and now the straight person wants to sue for discrimination based on sexual orientation. I think they got bumped because there was a whole-ship charter. Lesbians, Elks Club, insurance agents -- doesn't matter. It was a private charter.

[Nautical Wheeler]

LisaBrooke!

The whole FF mile thing is what decided our dates for us. I would have preferred to cruise later in Nov......but only Sky Choice was available. I guess it depends where you are leaving from. I know our daughter and son-in-law couldn't get FF
sky saver miles out of Boston for either week. We are coming from Ft. Lauderdale. My TA told me they haven't heard anything from HAL yet re: compensation. She is the one who called and told me about the cancellation.
Wouldn't it be great if HAL would pay your airfare so you could cruise when you wanted too? I'll keep my fingers crossed for you.:) I checked and airfare from Ft. Lauderdale to SF was $400 + pp. :eek:

[wblynch]

I checked and airfare from Ft. Lauderdale to SF was $400 + pp. :eek:


Wouldn't it be more convenient to fly into San Diego directly? San Francisco is over 500 miles away.

The San Diego airport is only a five minute ride from the Cruise Terminal.

.

[lisabrooke1130]

I think that is a typo on Nautical Wheeler's part. I am sure she is flying FLL to SD, not SF. You are right--that is a 2-day drive to get from SF to SD.

[lisabrooke1130]

My TA heard from HAL. They are trying to move everyone onto the 10/22 sailing of the Oosterdam. The only compensation they are offering is $50 pp onboard credit, which seems measly to me. The 10/22 sailing doesn't work for us (no frequent-flyer flights left). We looked into other sailings (HAL would move us and guarantee the rate), but nothing really works. Really, we wanted to sail the Oosterdam on our anniversary and anything else would be settling for second best. So, we have cancelled. I need to get HAL to reimburse us for the cost of cancelling the FF reservation we had with Delta ($100), which I am sure will be a hassle. For some reason, Delta can't give me a receipt for this charge unless I pay $20 per ticket--I have to wait for my credit card statement and hope that satisfies HAL.

I guess I need to change my signature below and remove the 10/05 Oosterdam! :-(

Lisa

[Renorita]

Lisa

Really sorry you had to cancel, but can understand why. That was going to be so special for you. :( We thought we were going to have to cancel also, but we did manage to book on the Nov. 12th Cruise, which was the only other week I could get. At least in addition to the $100 per couple Shipboard Credit they are giving us, we still get to keep our Pinnacle/wine/CD Special and also our guaranteed SS cabin. The later is especially good as the SS cabin is much higher than it was on the Oct. 29th sailing, and we didn't have to pay the difference. Hope they give you the $100 for the FF cancelation. :)

Rita

[lisabrooke1130]

Thanks Rita! I am glad that you were able to reschedule to a time that worked for you. I am going to save those frequent flyer miles and we'll try the Oosterdam in 2006 (BTW, my TA said she could move us to the 2006 cruise of the Oosterdam sailing at the time of our anniversary, with a rate guarantee, but we thought that was a little long to be out our $700 deposit).

Have a blast on the Oosterdam!!

[Nautical Wheeler]

Wouldn't it be more convenient to fly into San Diego directly? San Francisco is over 500 miles away.

The San Diego airport is only a five minute ride from the Cruise Terminal.

.

My typo error........or maybe I left my heart...........but meant FL to SD.:)

[Schplinky]

The suggestion came from someone else who hasn't been bumped.

Yes, if i have it straight (pardon the pun), they're going to insist that lesbian charters carry men, that the AA meetings serve liquor, that they can be a nudist on formal night, etc.

[newcruiser452]

Hey, The cruise I booked with a large group is a Christian group that is have a conference on board with several musical groups. Oliva.com is also selling the same cruise so there is room for both on the ship. One thing I did notice is that the internary is different on the Oliva website than on my TA's site and HAL's site. So I wonder who has the internary wrong, OLIVA or HAL and my TA.

[QuitMyDayJob]

When Olivia charters a HAL ship they charter the whole ship and sometimes modify the itinerary. Apparently HAL has left cruises "available" even after Olivia has chartered the specific ship and week. Results in many unhappy, and rightfully so, people who think they've booked a cruise for a specific week only to find out that they are being bumped to another week/ship. It's too bad that the specific cruise can't taken off the availability list once it's chartered by a group.

[Iggipolka]

Hey, The cruise I booked with a large group is a Christian group that is have a conference on board with several musical groups. Oliva.com is also selling the same cruise so there is room for both on the ship. One thing I did notice is that the internary is different on the Oliva website than on my TA's site and HAL's site. So I wonder who has the internary wrong, OLIVA or HAL and my TA.

This can't be possible. Olivia charters the entire ship so that the entire cruise is lesbian only. Someone's got a mistake somewhere. Unless, it's a group of lesbian christians!

[newcruiser452]

I called HAL and eveything is good to go. It looks like they are only selling cabins on this cruise and have not chartered it. I would suspect that Oliva.com has some internary information wrong.

This group of christians is not just 10 or 20 but the number is in the 100's.

[trubey]

Hey, The cruise I booked with a large group is a Christian group that is have a conference on board with several musical groups. Oliva.com is also selling the same cruise so there is room for both on the ship. One thing I did notice is that the internary is different on the Oliva website than on my TA's site and HAL's site. So I wonder who has the internary wrong, OLIVA or HAL and my TA.

The idea of these groups together made me do some investigation. Newcruiser: Are you a trouble maker, or just confused? I saw the following posts of yours on a thread about the WESTERDAM, for January 29th thru February 5th. This thread is about the OOSTERDAM!

One of the posts says: "Hey, I just checked out your link and noticed your travel agency has different ports listed. I wonder what's up?" Another says: "I just checked the HAL board and they match my TA. I wonder if your TA has the internary(?) wrong."

susan.

[newcruiser452]

I am not trying to start any trouble, I have another thread where I posted my cruise information and someone said they were also going on the cruise and had booked with Oliva.com. When I saw this post and everyone saying that Oliva.com always charters the whole ship I got concerned that my plans were going to be changed. I did check out the Oliva.com site that the other poster on my thread had mentioned and it took me to Oliva.com which had my cruise listed as a different internary. Then I became really concerned so I called my TA today and was told that they do have the Westerdam on 1/29 as a group that will be over half the ship. So I am confused about the OLive.com site unless there is only a small number or single booking for them and they have the internary wrong. I did also check with HAL and the place I booked at is correct.

I just want to make sure I do not get to the ship to find out the internary is different. I know that this happens sometimes.

Anyway I know we will have others on the ship and I am OK with how ever I am cruise with I just was trying to get some information on this thread when members are making statements such as "When Oliva.com books a cruise they charter the whole thing" which in this case seems to be incorrect.

Again I apologize if I have upset or rattled anyone's cage about this. If this is not the place to discuss cruising and all the comes with it with open and honest discussion then I will continue to just read and keep my questions to: "how much are soda cards"

Happy cruising.

[Iggipolka]

Olivia always books the entire ship. Always. I've called Olivia and left a message regarding the Westerdam cruise and will let you know what they say when they return my call.

[Renorita]

Iggi

Hi, are you going to be sailing on the "O" on the 12th of Nov. or did you schedule the 10/22 Cruise? If the former, we hope to have a chance to meet you. :) I just am glad we were able to switch from the 10/29 sailing to Nov. 12 without too much hassle, as we were so afraid I was not going to be able to switch to another week as our vacation schedule at work was full. Just lucked out that that week opened.

[lisabrooke1130]

I am the original poster that started this whole discussion. The only thing I have to offer is my experience and what I have read on this posting. It seems that Olivia.com was advertising my cruise (10/29 Oosterdam) on their website long before HAL acknowledged that there was a charter and stopped taking booking from other parties. One poster (Iggipolka) who has traveled with them before said that it was up on Olivia's site for quite some time. So, what I have learned is that just because HAL is still taking bookings and making it appear that all is normal, it may not be. It almost seems as if it comes to a point when Olivia has enough bookings, they trigger taking over the whole ship and HAL goes through the motion of informing everyone else that they have been bumped (I guess the reverse of this is if Olivia doesn't get enough bookings by the drop-dead date from HAL to charter the whole ship, they cancel and disappoint their own customers).

This is just my two cents (and observations) after having been through it. Newcruiser, you may want to think about options should HAL call you (or your TA) to inform you that the ship has been chartered in full. Given that my cruise was cancelled in late February (approx. 8 months out), I would look to the same timetable for something to possibly happen to your cruise (8 months out would be late May timeframe for your late January 2006 cruise).

Good luck! I am still waiting to hear from HAL as to whether they are going to cover my $100 airline cancellation charge. What a royal pain in the butt all of this has been.

[newcruiser452]

Thanks! I hope that there is room for everyone since we have 600 or 700 people going or whatever half the ship is. I will just sit tight and hope for the best.

I would think it would be hard to find a place for 600 or so people on the same ship somewhere else, because this is a conference cruise it would be hard to have the conference if they split everyone up so that would hurt HAL, but you never know.

Have a great day everyone.

[smoosh21]

Wow, Olivia and a Christian group on the same cruise. It seems like someone in planning messed up there, especially if it is a more conservative, Jerry Falwell type Christian group. It seems HAL could end up with both groups being very upset.
I know HAL needs to be careful about how they would screen groups to avoid being discriminatory, but you would think they could subtly hint to whichever group booked second, about what group was already booked and to see if they wanted to move by a week.

[trubey]

The sarcastic, sardonic side of me says that this scenario just doesn't exist. I did a google looking for a Christian group chartering the Oosterdam in October. I can't find any links. But since it may be well hidden, may I ask newcruiser to provide a link? susan.

[Iggipolka]

Iggi

Hi, are you going to be sailing on the "O" on the 12th of Nov. or did you schedule the 10/22 Cruise? If the former, we hope to have a chance to meet you. :)

I'm going to be on the November 12th cruise on the Oosterdam. I'd absolutely love to meet you! As you can tell, I'm counting the days. :D

[Schplinky]

Wow, Olivia and a Christian group on the same cruise. It seems like someone in planning messed up there, especially if it is a more conservative, Jerry Falwell type Christian group. It seems HAL could end up with both groups being very upset.
I know HAL needs to be careful about how they would screen groups to avoid being discriminatory, but you would think they could subtly hint to whichever group booked second, about what group was already booked and to see if they wanted to move by a week.

a) I'm pretty sure the Falwell group (refuse to call them christian) is going on Cunard and this thread has crossed back on itself.

b) There are christian gays and lesbians and lesbian and gay christians. These groups are not mutually exclusive.

[Renorita]

I'm going to be on the November 12th cruise on the Oosterdam. I'd absolutely love to meet you! As you can tell, I'm counting the days. :D

Great! We will definitely keep in touch! Haven't heard of anyone else from CC going yet, but its still early. Maybe I will bump the one thread that I saw way back on the Roll Call Roster. Have you sailed HAL before? This will be our first time, so not sure of a good place to meet, but can decide that later. We have a group of CC'ers going on our Vancouver to San Francisco (6 night) Cruise on the Infinity for the Aug. 28th Cruise. That also will be our first Celebrity Cruise, so we have two "virgin" cruises to look forward to. Have only been on RCCI, Princess and Carnival. Yes waiting is so hard, but these boards help a little. :)

[Iggipolka]

I just got off the phone with Olivia. They are chartering the entire ship for the Jan 29- Feb 5 cruise. If you are a non-Olivia Pax and have booked the Westerdam for this time period, be prepared to have to switch cruises.

I really wish that HAL would remove chartered cruises from their website much more quickly than they do. Its not fair to people who are not on the charter and it creates quite a bit of confusion to people who are on the charter.

[newcruiser452]

I also just checked and our group still has the booking with HAL. I even contacted HAL directly.

Like I said our group is over half the ship so if we are bumped they will have to find a ship that has enough room for 700 to 800 people for a conference.

This is not a new group either it has been out for awhile so it is not like HAL does not know it has 800 person group booked on one ship and that they going to wait to try to find another ship with a company that does a lot of business with them.

Enough said!

[ekerr19]

I also just checked and our group still has the booking with HAL. I even contacted HAL directly.

Like I said our group is over half the ship so if we are bumped they will have to find a ship that has enough room for 700 to 800 people for a conference.

This is not a new group either it has been out for awhile so it is not like HAL does not know it has 800 person group booked on one ship and that they going to wait to try to find another ship with a company that does a lot of business with them.

Enough said!

Is your group on 1/29/2006? or 10/29/2005? I am confused here...

[ekerr19]

I just got off the phone with Olivia. They are chartering the entire ship for the Jan 29- Feb 5 cruise. If you are a non-Olivia Pax and have booked the Westerdam for this time period, be prepared to have to switch cruises.

I really wish that HAL would remove chartered cruises from their website much more quickly than they do. Its not fair to people who are not on the charter and it creates quite a bit of confusion to people who are on the charter.

Iggi -

I just did a Google search and check this out! :eek:

http://www.inspirationcruises.com/html/integrity_music.html

Somebody got their wires crossed!

[torpeedo]

Oh my:eek: ! That would be some cruise! I bet those inspirational singers will get the boot! Hope they check out this board and give a call to their TA so they can get on another ship before everyone does their airfare etc.

[Iggipolka]

Iggi -

I just did a Google search and check this out! :eek:

http://www.inspirationcruises.com/html/integrity_music.html

Somebody got their wires crossed!

Big time! Woops! I let people at Olivia know.

[Iggipolka]

I don't know why I've gotten so compulsive about this issue, but I seem to have today.

So, I called the people at the Northwestern Radio Integrity Music/ Inspiration Cruises regarding the double charter of the Westerdam in January. They had no idea that the ship was chartered by Olivia. Not surprisingly, they hadn't even heard of Olivia. So, I gave them Olivia's contact information. I also let Olivia know about the Inspiration Cruises booking and they once again told me that Olivia takes over the entire ship. So, the people on the Inspiration Cruise will get bumped to another ship.

HAL has got a major mess on their hands.

[ekerr19]

Iggi -

Keep us posted if you get any information! This is really something else and someone at HAL is going to have a huge problem!

I want to know how it all plays out too. There is no way both these groups will be on the same ship on the same dates...

[QuitMyDayJob]

IMHO, there's really no reason for Olivia and the Inspiration folks to correspond at all. It's a HAL issue entirely. At this point I imagine it's all about contracts. Between HAL and Olivia and between HAL and Inspiration.

[kel_eun]

hi...my partner and I are going on the Olivia trip October 29th. We booked the trip thru Olivia in the beginning of September. I really don;t undertsand why HAL doesn't just remove the trip from availability. What happens is, Olivia charters the ship and then it is up to Olivia to fill it. If they don't fill it for whatever reason, they will sail with whoever booked thru Olivia only. I can sympathize with anyone or group os people who get bumped but sadly to say thats what happens when HAL makes this type of an error. Happy cruising everyone!!!

[Globaliser]

It almost seems as if it comes to a point when Olivia has enough bookings, they trigger taking over the whole ship and HAL goes through the motion of informing everyone else that they have been bumped (I guess the reverse of this is if Olivia doesn't get enough bookings by the drop-dead date from HAL to charter the whole ship, they cancel and disappoint their own customers).This may well be quite close to the truth. Olivia will not want to be contractually committed to the whole ship unless they've got enough commitments from their own customers, so HAL will not know whether the ship will actually go on a full charter until much closer to the time. That's a bit of a bummer for people who have booked with the side that has to cancel, but such are the realities of commercial life.

[Time2sail]

I went to the website and noticed that the June 5-12 cruise to Alaska on the Amsterdam is chartered by Inspiration. They are having fantastic gospel musical groups and entertainers and Dr. David Jeremiah. We will be getting off the Amsterdam on June 5 from our cruise. If the cruise is not sold out and we can arrange it, we would enjoy this very much. Thanks for letting me know about this site:)

[xpcdoojk]

I hadn't looked at this thread for a couple of weeks, but OMG, this could be a mess. I am still confused by the October and January thing, too.

O well I hope it all works out.... mysterious forces at work and all.:D ;)

jc

[Globaliser]

I am still confused by the October and January thing, too.I think that Olivia's advertising charters for both October and January. It's the January one that's clashing with something else that someone is advertising.

[kryos]

HAL has got a major mess on their hands.
Oh, man ... I can't think of a worse possible combination ... Olivia and a Christian group. You better believe HAL will have to move one group to another ship. No way will a Christian group sail with a lesbian one.

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not making judgments about anybody. It's just a fact of life ... no way will a Christian group share the ship on a gay sailing. And, I doubt the gay group would want a bunch of Christians around trying to "convert" them either.

LOL ... I don't envy the HAL executive who has to deal with this little problem. He/she is gonna earn their six figure salary working this out. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

I went to the website and noticed that the June 5-12 cruise to Alaska on the Amsterdam is chartered by Inspiration. They are having fantastic gospel musical groups and entertainers and Dr. David Jeremiah. We will be getting off the Amsterdam on June 5 from our cruise. If the cruise is not sold out and we can arrange it, we would enjoy this very much. Thanks for letting me know about this site:)
I've been looking at some of Inspiration (and Templeton Tours') offerings and would love to do a cruise with them. It's just that so far nothing has worked out for my schedule or preferred itinerary. I particularly would enjoy a sailing with Dr. Stanley, but so far his cruises don't fit in with my schedule. I'm hoping some better choices might appear on the website later on this year.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[RobbieCruises]

. . . I have some experience in this kind of thing. So I'll chime in.

Here's what I'd do: I'd emphasize how important these dates are to you and ask to be placed on another HAL ship sailing at that time (– or Windstar. The same company owns those and they are very different but great). And then, if you remain on HAL, I would ask for an upgrade for your disappointment over not being able to cruise on the ship that means something to you for your anniversary. (Windstar would be quite an upgrade in itself.)

Be reasonable, and there's a good chance they will be, too. But if you don't ask, you won't get much. Even if the dates are off by a day or two, you can generally change FF tickets for no charge. It's still far enough out you should be able to get seats if you push for a fast decision now.

No offense, lawyers on board, but suing will help your lawyer more than you.

If you cruise on one of the other Vista ships, they are so much alike you'll barely notice you aren't on Oosterdam! (I'm sailing on Westerdam Sunday and just returned from Oosterdam. I've been on both before, and they're extremely similar. You'll feel right at home.)

Good luck.

[bepsf]

LOL ... I don't envy the HAL executive who has to deal with this little problem. He/she is gonna earn their six figure salary working this out. :)



...or lose their six-figure salary for letting this happen!:eek:

[RobbieCruises]

As for saying these two groups couldn't coexist (replying to the second tangent going on), that's not true if these weren't whole-ship charters. Very few groups interact anyhow, but I would be very comfortable with either/both these groups on my cruise, and many people would be! I have a gay son and listen to the radio stations in question every day. All this sense of polarism is exaggerated by the media : ) (I'm in the media, too.)

[want2travelbad]

This thread has gotten off track, but I hope it is okay to chime in and reply to the OP. I have been away from this board for awhile, so am getting in on this discussion late. I have been bumped from a HAL cruise, for a charter, and I have lived to tell the tale! My family was to leave on the "O" Mexican Cruise, departing from San Diego, this coming weekend. We had already booked our nonrefundable airfare prior to learning we had been bumped. Our flight was with America West and the change fee was $100 pp, or $300 for our family. Also, we were limited to traveling next week, as it is Spring Break and our child is getting to an age where pulling him out of school is getting more difficult. HAL's initial offer to us was a $50 pp shipboard credit. Not okay. So, I worked with my online TA, and counter offered: we asked for HAL to pay our airfare change fees (in the form of a $300 shipboard credit); and to allow us to reschedule on any 7 day sailing/itinerary that HAL sails, during any period of the year that worked for our family in the same stateroom category for no additional money. HAL met our requests, and agreed to provide the $50 pp shipboard credit they initially offered on top of everything, even though we didn't request it.Also, we have to pay a little more for port fees/taxes. The outcome? We will be sailing on the "O" in July, to Alaska, in the exact same stateroom we would have sailed if we had gotten to take the Mexican cruise. We are in a Category D, balcony, and would have spent quite a bit more money had we booked this cruise directly. We are quite happy with the way HAL ultimately handled it, although I will admit I was a psycho woman for about a week when this was all unfolding.:eek:

[stanford's girl]

want2travelbad,
WOW!! It seems like HAL's standard offer is a $50pp shipboard credit. By holding out and countering, you got a great deal that worked out well for your family. It's nice to know that HAL came through for you. I'll keep this in mind if I ever get bumped from a cruise.;)

[kryos]

...or lose their six-figure salary for letting this happen!:eek:
Excellent point! :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

(I guess the reverse of this is if Olivia doesn't get enough bookings by the drop-dead date from HAL to charter the whole ship, they cancel and disappoint their own customers).

No. I don't think that's how it would work. If Olivia didn't get enough bookings to charter the whole ship, then Olivia's group would sail, but they would sail right along with everyone else that booked the cruise. This means that they couldn't "customize" the cruise for their own members; i.e., couldn't have their own entertainers in the show lounges, couldn't alter HAL rules such as dress codes, etc., and would basically have to live compatibly with others sharing the boat with them. I only wonder, though, if certain groups can even co-exist on a ship due to the differences in philosophies and such (i.e., Olivia and a Christian group).

However, when you do a whole ship charter, from what I understand you have a lot of leeway in terms of customizing portions of the experience; i.e., bringing your own entertainment along, etc. Some of the Christian groups do this. They charter the whole ship and then order that the bars and casino be closed for the duration of the cruise. They also bring along Christian entertainers who replace all of the ship's entertainers for the week.

By the way, the reason I said that a Christian group would never sail with an Olivia group is because Christian groups generally tend to be family-oriented. I cannot imagine, based on the Christian parents I know ... as well as my knowledge of the faith ... that any parents would be willing to have their children "exposed" to wide-scale practice of the gay lifestyle while onboard. Many of these same parents homeschool their children specifically as not to have them exposed to much of what is going on in the world today, and if they will go that far (homeschooling is no picnic), I doubt they would take their children on a vacation where they will be exposed to something that Christian teachings generally denounce.

Christian groups are a big force in the vacation market today. And, believe me, HAL is gonna be taking very good care of that Christian group when they bump them from this sailing ... especially if they wind up having to ask them to move their event to another date. They are going to be giving them some really big credits and other incentives to keep them happy, or else they are going to get cut out of the Christian market for many years to come. Of course, I am sure the Olivia group has a bit of clout as well and has to be treated carefully.

Like I said ... I don't envy the HAL executive who has to deal with this mess, nor do I envy the employee who allowed it to occur.

Blue skies ...

--rita