Chartered Cruises

[Iggipolka]

This thread was started after a conversation regarding HAL's ships being chartered by a lesbian travel agency, Olivia. Someone (can't remember who, sorry) thought this was discrimination against hetrosexuals. There was also a question about how people would feel if a cruise was chartered that only allowed black people aboard.

Here are cruises for only African Americans
http://www.soulofamerica.com/cruises/

Here are cruises for Christians
http://www.allchristiancruises.com/testimonies.html

Here are cruises for people who are Jewish
http://www.totallyjewishtravel.com/

Here are cruises for lesbians
http://www.olivia.com

Here are cruises for gay men
http://www.rsvp.net/

Here's a cruise for Big Beautiful Women and their partners and families
http://bbwcruise.com/

Here's a cruise for nudists
http://*******.com/5xenp


There are many many other tpes of cruises for many many other types of people. Often minority groups charter an entire ship becuase it is so wonderful to finally be in the majority!

When I was on the Olivia cruise, it was such an amazing experience to be able to hold my partner's hand, call her "honey" in public, dance with her and not be stared at and do all of the normal things that hetrosexual couples do all the time without thinking twice about it. However, just to have the privalege of being "normal", we had to pay nearly tripple HAL's usual fare.

There are thousands of cruises avaliable that anyone regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation or religious affiliation can attend. There are a few cruises each year that are chartered to give people an opportunity to enjoy being with people who have the same interests, race, sexual orientation, gender, ect. This isn't discrimination, it's being given a chance to feel free to be who you are without fear.

[discjoker]

When I was on the Olivia cruise, it was such an amazing experience to be able to hold my partner's hand, call her "honey" in public, dance with her and not be stared at and do all of the normal things that hetrosexual couples do all the time without thinking twice about it. However, just to have the privalege of being "normal", we had to pay nearly tripple HAL's usual fare.

Isn't it sad that this is the case? I wouldn't look twice if I saw this public display of affection. But that is just me. I am not making judgments on any beliefs anyone may have but I believe everyone is created equal and no one should have their rights enfringed upon (I am a believer in individual rights as opposed to pro-gay/anti-gay or pro or anti anything). This goes for excluding people as well.

Below is what I posted on the previous thread in response to someone who said the discrimination argument was ridiculous when another poster pointed out that it was discrimination that the cruise would only allow women and no men were allowed:

Let me ask you a question, if a group chartered a ship and said that no black people were allowed or no white people allowed would you consider that discrimination? After all, many people believe that you are born with your sexual orientation (in other words you have no choice in the matter). Isn't that the same with your race? And the same with your gender? Just some food for thought.

[KatWag]

When I first saw the original post, I had to admit that if I saw a cruise that said "white only" or "black only", I'd think it was wrong. So I had to agree with the original poster's comment, on the surface.

After reading your heartfelt reply, though, I feel differently. I am fortunate to work for a social service agency where all staff, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, are treated equally. At our company functions, you could hold hands with your partner, dance with her, call her "honey", in short, do all the same things I can do with my husband, without ever feeling judged or out of place. I do recognize that most places are not like that, though.

I hope that someday our world will evolve to the point that no one views two people who share a loving relationship as a threat. Until that happens, I guess these sort of charters are going to have to be it.

Thanks for your thoughtful and beautifully written response.

Kathy

[jhannah]

I would be disappointed if I were knocked off a planned cruise because the ship was chartered. But in no way would I consider it discriminatory or illegal. The cruise line is a private enterprise out to make money. If some group wants to buy a ship out, the cruise line will gladly accept their money. They pay a high price for it, as noted above. That makes it worthwhile for the cruise line to commit the ship to them and to make the financial concessions necessary to "make whole" those who were displaced. They are not excluding anyone who wants to do this, as shown above in the number of different groups to charter ships.

[jcrandle]

Here's a cruise for nudists
http://*******.com/5xenp

.

Sorry, but I'm ROTFL. What a url for a nudist group. I realize that size isn't everthing, but I'd think that it would certainly be noticeable for nudists.

[Iggipolka]

Thank you Kathy. I appreciate your thoughts and support. I do with for the day when my partner and I could just do something as simple and ordinary as go on a cruise without having to wonder if we'd feel safe on a non-chartered cruise. Hard to say when that will happen. Until then, the chartered cruises provide a much needed service for people in minority groups.

[Iggipolka]

Sorry, but I'm ROTFL. What a url for a nudist group. I realize that size isn't everthing, but I'd think that it would certainly be noticeable for nudists.

*Giggle* I was wondering if anyone would say anything about the URL.
*******.com is a site that condenses hugely long url's into a small one, to make for easier posting.
It was funny though. :D

[Pudgesmom]

For what its worth,

My husband and I were on the Oosterdam in November. We usually don't stay up too late, but we went to the disco on 70's night. Yes, we loved disco. :p There was an amazing variety of dancers on the floor. Several married (or Not) couples from their 30's to 60's, a group of girls from the crew dancing together, and two openly gay male couples dancing. No one seemed to care who was dancing with whom. We had a great time.

As far as chartered cruises go, I have a few friends who love Olivia, and wouldn't travel with any other group. I do however, wish these full ship charters would book earlier, whether they're pink or three-legged or butterfly lovers. I book up to a year in advance, and for me, part of the the fun is the advance planning for shore excursions, good airfares, and general anticipation. I would be very disappointed if my sailing was chartered out from under me.

JMHO
Beth

[bepsf]

Pudgesmom--


I agree w/ you - I think that HAL should make it a requirement that folks who want to charter ante up when the schedules are made public - not after other folks have made their plans.

Iggi--

Thanks for putting your thoughts out there. I've enjoyed str8 cruises, but not as much as I've enjoyed "being in the majority" on RSVP. BTW - RSVP is welcoming to female cruisers and the ladies I met aboard last year's cruise seemed to have be having a great time w/ us guys - I hope you'll consider coming w/ us one of these days!

[ekerr19]

You know - I just feel the need to chime in here... we have been on a few cruises and in all that time I have only encountered what I consider "a closed mind" on one occassion. We were watching the dancing in the Crow's Nest one night and two gentlemen got up and danced together (they were actually in a cabin just across the hall from us and we'd gotten to know them) and a woman at the bar says to me (with her furrowed brow and pursed lips) - "look at those two men dancing together" and I replied, "Oh, yes, what good dancers they are - and so incredibly handsome together!"

Well, she didn't say another word and I was glad. Life is too short and precious enough without having to stand in judgement of others. In my mind, love comes in all shapes, sizes and forms - far be it for anyone to judge what is acceptable or unacceptable, especially for others.

When I am confronted with prejudice, I feel it is crucial to respond, not just look the other way and pretend it is not happening.

[trubey]

What a wonderful thread, so supportive of the freedom of diversity. I support you all. I wandered over to the gay and lesbian boards the other day just to see what was there. There were differing opinions on g/l cruises or regular cruising. But I really appreciated the humor, rather than self-pity, in describing some of the uncomfortable cruising situations.

Until we can make this whole world a better place, let's work on each cruise ship, passage-by-passage. Please hold hands, dance, and even kiss. How else will they learn?

Susan.

[trubey]

I forgot to mention in my above post, that one of my favorite memories of my cruise last summer was an afternoon in Turkey, escorted through the crazed mass of bazaars by two gay men I met on my ship plus a gay cruise employee. They took me everywhere I would have been afraid to go on my own. Then relaxing in an outside bar, drinking umbrella drinks. Thanks, guys.

susan.

[Globaliser]

I do however, wish these full ship charters would book earlier, whether they're pink or three-legged or butterfly lovers. I book up to a year in advance, and for me, part of the the fun is the advance planning for shore excursions, good airfares, and general anticipation. I would be very disappointed if my sailing was chartered out from under me.It's definitely far from ideal when this happens. But you have to remember that the charterers are also businesses too, and they are putting a lot of money on the line when they decide to do this and the cruise lines have to be sensitive to their business needs too.

There is a great deal of market pressure (from the individual cruiser market) for cruise lines to come up with firm schedules earlier and earlier - you just have to look at the threads on CC to see how many people want to know what cruises are on offer in late 2006 and even 2007. But most affinity group charterers are simply not in a position to make a firm commitment to a ship that far ahead. They need to assess economic and market conditions, saturation levels from their existing plans, feedback from recently completed cruises about what worked and what didn't and therefore what would be well received next time, etc.

So unless and until we are all happy that cruise schedules don't get published until about 9 months before the cruise, the occasional cancellation because of a full charter is inevitably going to happen. It's not ideal, but then unfortunately the world just isn't.

For the individual passenger who gets cancelled, the effect isn't any different from cancelling a cruise because the ship's going early into drydock or has been sold - both of which happen regularly. The best thing is to take a deep breath, and remember that life is uncertain (so one should eat dessert first).