Bermuda says too many cruisers

[kakalina]

I found this quite interesting this morning.

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2011/04/bermuda-cruise-ship-passenger-bus-limit-dockyard-hamilton/167647/1

I suppose we could solve the problem by not going there :)

[world~citizen]

I found this quite interesting this morning.

http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2011/04/bermuda-cruise-ship-passenger-bus-limit-dockyard-hamilton/167647/1

I suppose we could solve the problem by not going there :)

Its not tourists they are restricting, its cruise tourists. We visited Bermuda once, and that was enough for us.:)

Smooth sailing...

[Hobbsey]

See the previous thread on this topic for more back and forth. As is usually the case there is more involved then just a swat at cruise passengers. But of course we all like to cast ourselves in the middle of any drama.

1. It's a small island and they restrict car ownership. They also do not allow rental cars, only rental motor bikes.
2. Real people LIVE there. Full time. They are not extras in your espisode of the love boat. They need public transportation to go about their lives (see reason above). If, for no other reason, than to wait on us when we arrive at their shop or restaurant.
3. The Island is not set up for the new Mega-Ship traffic that is coming there. With only one docking options for the size of ships we cruise these days this was bound to happen.
4. HAL still sails smaller (Mid Size) ships that can work around this problem - direct to St Georges and Hamilton.
5. The mega ship operators that want to utilize Bermuda as a stop or a destination need to step up and help the country with the infrastructure needed to support the loads of people they dump on the Island in one fell swoop.

It's about logistics, local politics and economics. As usual there are no quick and easy answers - but, it seems, we all expect them anyway.

Some alternative:

1. Pay for a cab.
2. Take the ferry to Hamilton or one of the other stops in the bay.
3. Take a HAL cruise that doesn't use the dock yard as a port.
4. Don't go to the dock yard on a day with a Mega ship at that port.

Bermuda is beautiful, safe and a relaxation seekers refuge. It is a perfect stop for a HAL devotee.

[kakalina]

If there was a previous thread on this subject I missed it while I was gone. Sorry for the duplication.

After our last cruise there I don't plan to return to the Caribbean for a long time if at all.

[jhannah]

Well, I won't be a bother to them. Don't plan on going. I can appreciate their desire to preserve their environment. Too bad, though, for those who make their living from tourist traffic.

[Hobbsey]

The beauty of a Bermuda cruise is that it is a single destination and is combined with an open ocean "crossing". Bermuda is not in the Caribbean, but sits alone in the Atlantic ocean. One gets the sense of crossing the Atlantic and then using the ship as a floating hotel while in the country. Then, crossing back to the US.

HAL is the last of the major cruiselines to have ships the proper size to enjoy a Bermuda cruise. It is so much more affordable than flying and staying in a hotel. Being able to enjoy the more restrictive ports like Hamilton and St. Georges without perching your ship at the furthest point away is wonderful.

I saw someone post that they should dredge out the approach to Hamilton. Comon!! The Island eco-system is at stake in a move like that. Plus, it's more about length to turn and dock than it is depth of hull.

Anyway. Enjoy where ever you choose to vacation. And happy sailing if you cruise.

Jeff

[3rdGenCunarder]

If there was a previous thread on this subject I missed it while I was gone. Sorry for the duplication.

After our last cruise there I don't plan to return to the Caribbean for a long time if at all.

I don't understand the last sentence. Which "there" did you mean? Bermuda is not in the Caribbean. Bermuda is very different from the Caribbean islands. Unlike the Caribbean islands, Bermuda is quieter, has more history, has no gambling. I love Bermuda for these reasons.

If you didn't like Bermuda and wanted something "livlier," then you might consider a Caribbean cruise.

[kakalina]

Our last few Caribbean cruises have stopped in Bermuda as part of the cruise. We don't care to repeat the experience, that's all.
We found other destinations we like a lot more.

[sail7seas]

I've been very on the fence about returning to Bermuda.

Would you share with us what was negative about your previous experiences there, Kakalina?

Thanks. I certainly understand if you don't wish to.

[KatWag]

Actually we saw first-hand the problem when we sailed Veendam last September. We made the mistake of going to dockyard on a day two megaships were there. Boarded the bus back to Hamilton. It was standing room only. Passed numerous islanders waiting on the way to Hamilton. There was no room at all. If all the busses were leaving like that, I can't imagine how long those folks had to wait.

I think we can all imagine how we would feel if that happened to us.

[done it]

very wise move on the part of my beloved Bermuda. Locals and folks who vacation there are sick of seeing wife beaters, tatoo's and folks who are just " stopping by" and don't care how they behave. Not saying all folks on cruises are this way but these are the ones that ruin everything for everybody.

[paulista1950]

"Real people LIVE there. Full time. They are not extras in your espisode of the love boat"
I thought this was true in all ports
" The mega ship operators that want to utilize Bermuda as a stop or a destination need to step up and help the country with the infrastructure needed to support the loads of people"
I thought they were doing so by paying port taxes and that the money tourists spend there was useful

I guess I was wrong.

One other alternative:
Not going there.

[Hobbsey]

"Real people LIVE there. Full time. They are not extras in your espisode of the love boat"
I thought this was true in all ports
" The mega ship operators that want to utilize Bermuda as a stop or a destination need to step up and help the country with the infrastructure needed to support the loads of people"
I thought they were doing so by paying port taxes and that the money tourists spend there was useful

I guess I was wrong.

One other alternative:
Not going there.

I made those comments because there have been some posting on this topic with the attitude that the locals should just suck it up - too bad for them. The basic port charges have little to do with funding local transportation. They go for Port and Pier maintenance, and port and pier services like electircity and water and the man (or woman) power to provide those services. When a cruise company decides to off load 2000 or more guests onto an Island for a day then bottle necks should be expected. The local transportation is for the use of everyone. In that instance the cruise company or the guests themselves need to be ready to provide additional economic assistance so that the infrastructure (more vehicles) can be provided for dedicated express services to certain points (Hamilton, popular beaches, etc.), so that the flow of normal life on the Island is maintained.

I agree with you, you should choose to go somewhere else that is more equiped to deal with this kind of situation. We had debated another Bermuda cruise, this time with HAL. We have chosen to go Caribbean instead. Not based on this issue. I've been to the dock yard and don't need to see it again. But I will stress - HAL is the only major line going there right now that can help one by-pass the problem that this thread is addressing.

[lvz2cruz]

Actually we saw first-hand the problem when we sailed Veendam last September. We made the mistake of going to dockyard on a day two megaships were there. Boarded the bus back to Hamilton. It was standing room only. Passed numerous islanders waiting on the way to Hamilton. There was no room at all. If all the busses were leaving like that, I can't imagine how long those folks had to wait.

I think we can all imagine how we would feel if that happened to us.

We saw the congestion a few years ago when we were on a small boat in St. Georges. We took the ferry to the Dockyard to get a bus to Horseshoe. At that time there was only one ship at the Dockyard and between the ferry passengers and them it took a few busses to get everyone on.

[sail7seas]

Anyone know for how many years HAL has contracted with Bermuda to sail there?

I do recall Bermuda refused HAL's request to allow Veendam's casino to open in the evenings and wonder if that influenced the length of the contract.

[YOW]

IMHO the 'if they don't want our money badly enough then we'll just go somewhere else' attitude is a relic of a bygone era. Expecting people to bow down as if you were royalty, and acting indignant when they don't, might have been acceptable once upon a time. Nowadays it just shows a lack of awareness of your place in the world -- not to mention a lack of compassion and empathy.

I'll get off my soapbox and go have a martini now. ;)

[Hobbsey]

Have an extra glass?

Seriously though, you are right. While it is true that they rely upon tourist dollars in Bermuda they are not very adept to bowing for anyone.

This is all a shame. Bermuda is a wonderful place; full of beauty and peace and quiet - with spectacular beaches, great water, moderate tempuratures, fabulous gardens, great beach combing (both shells and sea glass). It's quiet and orderly too. The problem here, I believe, lies in our modern need for bigger, better, faster. The ships we cruise today are just too big and our collective tempurment too attuned to going and seeing rather than seeking a calmer pace. We also want it all at an unreasonably low price most of the time.

I love Bermuda and hope that the day is not close to seeing the end of cruises there. At least cruises that I'll want to take. I hope that HAL at least stays dedicated to smaller and mid size ships. IMHO the newer classes of HAL ships are too big to be called "Mid Sized".

When I sailed Century at 72 GRT was a superliner. Now we are going to call Westerdam mid sized. Titanic was the largest in the World, just a century ago at like 46GRT. At a certain point they cease being cruise ships and are instead floating resorts that have little to do with the ocean except as a medium to trangress from port to port. I am thankful that HAL does remember her ties to the sea and lets us commune with it while on board. many cruise lines cut one off from the ocean when on board trying to direct attention to the activities and events inside the superliner bubble.

Well, down from my soap box now too. I feel overly sated by my own opinions. Time for a digestive aid.

jeff

[HeatherInFlorida]

Personally I love Bermuda. My first cruise was from NY to Bermuda and I've spent a lot of time there over the years. I've never felt unwelcome whether as a cruise passenger or a hotel guest It's such a very special island and very different from the Caribbean which I have grown weary of over the years ... but I still cruise there because I cruise for the sea and the ship, not the destination:).

Bermuda is an incredibly small island, though, and I can understand they may have issues with too many tourists. I wouldn't be interested in cruising there if we couldn't dock in Hamilton or St. George, though. The Dockyard is just not my cup of tea.

But it is such a magnificent island and a very wealthy one. While tourism is certainly important to them, I really don't think they rely on it the way most Caribbean islands do so I guess they feel they can be a little picky.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Personally I love Bermuda. My first cruise was from NY to Bermuda and I've spent a lot of time there over the years. I've never felt unwelcome whether as a cruise passenger or a hotel guest It's such a very special island and very different from the Caribbean which I have grown weary of over the years ... but I still cruise there because I cruise for the sea and the ship, not the destination:).

Bermuda is an incredibly small island, though, and I can understand they may have issues with too many tourists. I wouldn't be interested in cruising there if we couldn't dock in Hamilton or St. George, though. The Dockyard is just not my cup of tea.

But it is such a magnificent island and a very wealthy one. While tourism is certainly important to them, I really don't think they rely on it the way most Caribbean islands do so I guess they feel they can be a little picky.

For a long time, tourism was their main income. But in recentyears, offshore banking has become their number one business.

I agree with everything you've said about Bermuda. Our first cruise was to Bermuda on HAL, and it was nice to be able to sail there with HAL again last year. I hope HAL continues to send Veendam to Bermuda so we can avoid docking in the west end.

[Tamaracboy]

It's about logistics, local politics and economics. As usual there are no quick and easy answers - but, it seems, we all expect them anyway.

Some alternative:

1. Pay for a cab.
2. Take the ferry to Hamilton or one of the other stops in the bay.
3. Take a HAL cruise that doesn't use the dock yard as a port.
4. Don't go to the dock yard on a day with a Mega ship at that port.

Bermuda is beautiful, safe and a relaxation seekers refuge. It is a perfect stop for a HAL devotee.

For a long time, tourism was their main income. But in recentyears, offshore banking has become their number one business.

I agree with everything you've said about Bermuda. Our first cruise was to Bermuda on HAL, and it was nice to be able to sail there with HAL again last year. I hope HAL continues to send Veendam to Bermuda so we can avoid docking in the west end.

I am not advocating touristic colonialism, but I doubt if Bermuda (or anywhere else) would want to do without the tourist income they now enjoy.
Most places want all they can get because it is high profit.
Absolutely no place is actively working to reduce tourism by castigating their visitors.

So . . . . . Are the Bermudan officials caught off guard when a ship shows up ?
I think not.
Thus it seems so fundamentally logical to just add a few more busses to that route when ships are in (which is rather continual)
What sane politician or businessman would turn down additional income for the lack of a few busses ??

Let's see, more tourist income, additional infrastructure paid for by foreigners, additional employment, and they are taking a different approach ? ? ? ?
Is anyone else incredulous ??

How do you translate "D'uhh" or "No-Brainer" into Bermudan ? ?

r.

[world~citizen]

...Let's see, more tourist income, additional infrastructure paid for by foreigners, additional employment, and they are taking a different approach ? ? ? ?
Is anyone else incredulous ??

How do you translate "D'uhh" or "No-Brainer" into Bermudan ? ?

r.

Exactly!

[YOW]

Shaken or Stirred?

Shaken. And not just because I like to shake things up... lol.

sane politician

... two words that don't always go hand in hand. ;)

[Math Guy]

Bermuda is beautiful, safe and a relaxation seekers refuge. It is a perfect stop for a HAL devotee.[/quote]

Im not convinced that Bermuda is the idyllic location that is trumpeted in the glossy brochures. In a tragic case, similar to the disappearance of American teenager, Natalee Holloway, in Aruba in 2005, Canadian teenager, Rebecca Middleton, was raped and murdered in Bermuda...both situations revealing inept and incompetent police investigation. These small islands do not have the resources to adequately investigate crime, thus much crime goes unsolved and unpunished.
www.rebeccamiddleton.org (http://www.rebeccamiddleton.org) and www.bermuda.org.uk/rebecca.htm (http://www.bermuda.org.uk/rebecca.htm)

[iheartbda]

Long article but worth reading.
http://www.royalgazette.com/article/20110428/NEWS/704289932

[peaches from georgia]

Bermuda has always limited cruise tourism and it has kept the island's life and atmosphere intact. Bermuda does not want to become another St Thomas and "bravo" for that. We've cruised there 3 times and would love to do it again on a midsized ship to Hamilton and St George. No Dockyard! Iwould expect the same experience we have always had which is what keeps Bermuda tourists coming back to the resort hotels, too. Bermuda is not a Caribbean island. If you want that, cruise there, but Bermuda shouldn't change to accommodate the megaships. JMHO.

[3rdGenCunarder]

I am not advocating touristic colonialism, but I doubt if Bermuda (or anywhere else) would want to do without the tourist income they now enjoy.
Most places want all they can get because it is high profit.
Absolutely no place is actively working to reduce tourism by castigating their visitors.

So . . . . . Are the Bermudan officials caught off guard when a ship shows up ?
I think not.
Thus it seems so fundamentally logical to just add a few more busses to that route when ships are in (which is rather continual)
What sane politician or businessman would turn down additional income for the lack of a few busses ??

Let's see, more tourist income, additional infrastructure paid for by foreigners, additional employment, and they are taking a different approach ? ? ? ?
Is anyone else incredulous ??

How do you translate "D'uhh" or "No-Brainer" into Bermudan ? ?

r.

Yes, that is the logical solution. And I am told that they do run some beach-direct buses to try to get tourists to the beaches faster and without taking up space needed by the locals on the Hamilton buses. But I don't think they have all that many extra buses to add. So saving some seats on the bus for the people who need them to get to work or school seems like the only real choice they have.

[mafig]

I think Bermuda feels they don't need the cruiseships as much as the cruisers think they do.

It's only been a few years since they allowed Carnival to dock there, for example.

I know when I lived in New Jersey, Bermuda was considered the primo honeymoon destination ~ their hotels are very expensive in high season and people who stay at the hotels will spend more money at the hotels, restaurants, golf courses, etc. than cruisers do.

[DRWhit]

As I recall from our last trip there, Bermuda gives free public transport to school kids and to seniors as the method of transport (i.e no school buses, etc.). So I think that probably impacts their decision.

Also it sounds like limiting the number of cruisers is a short term fix, until they can get more buses, or direct more people to use the Ferries.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Bermuda has always limited cruise tourism and it has kept the island's life and atmosphere intact. Bermuda does not want to become another St Thomas and "bravo" for that. We've cruised there 3 times and would love to do it again on a midsized ship to Hamilton and St George. No Dockyard! Iwould expect the same experience we have always had which is what keeps Bermuda tourists coming back to the resort hotels, too. Bermuda is not a Caribbean island. If you want that, cruise there, but Bermuda shouldn't change to accommodate the megaships. JMHO.

And mine. At the risk of getting flamed, trounced on, and called a snob (and maybe I am just a little;) .... Bermuda is "classy"; it is sophisticated. I could cloak those words with ones that don't turn people off, but that describes it in a nutshell. I don't think there's another island like it in this part of the world.

And neither of those words mean they don't welcome you with open arms because I have always found that they do and I have spent a lot of time there over a 40 year period. And I understand this won't appeal to everyone. Many prefer a more laid back, down to earth, island experience. If so, there are many islands in the Caribbean and the Bahamas to enjoy that.

But Bermuda is in a "class" all by itself:) ; I respect and admire their desire to keep it that way.

[3rdGenCunarder]

And mine. At the risk of getting flamed, trounced on, and called a snob (and maybe I am just a little;) .... Bermuda is "classy"; it is sophisticated. I could cloak those words with ones that don't turn people off, but that describes it in a nutshell. I don't think there's another island like it in this part of the world.

And neither of those words mean they don't welcome you with open arms because I have always found that they do and I have spent a lot of time there over a 40 year period. And I understand this won't appeal to everyone. Many prefer a more laid back, down to earth, island experience. If so, there are many islands in the Caribbean and the Bahamas to enjoy that.

But Bermuda is in a "class" all by itself:) ; I respect and admire their desire to keep it that way.

I don't think it's snobbery to recognize a classy destination. :) (Do you have a flame-proof suit I can borrow?)

And I agree that Bermuda is unique. I think some cruise pax are surprised/disappointed when Bermuda turns out to be different from the other islands cruises visit. DH has said he's done with the Caribbean, but he'll be happy to go back to Bermuda.

[paulista1950]

IMHO the 'if they don't want our money badly enough then we'll just go somewhere else' attitude is a relic of a bygone era. Expecting people to bow down as if you were royalty, and acting indignant when they don't, might have been acceptable once upon a time. Nowadays it just shows a lack of awareness of your place in the world -- not to mention a lack of compassion and empathy.

I'll get off my soapbox and go have a martini now. ;)

I go somewhere else every time somebody doesn't want me around, and that's all. I don't expect anyone to bow down, since I'm NOT royalty. I'm 100% aware of my place in the world: it's wherever I want to be, provided the people/authorities want me there.
If I go to NY, Paris or to any little village in the world, I expect to follow the local laws, and to pay the same fare locals pay for the same service. Am I wrong?
Btw, if cruisers in Bermuda are demanding to ride buses for free, I apologize. :rolleyes:

[paulista1950]

"they are not very adept to bowing for anyone."]
Sorry, but I don't follow you. I've been to many cities all (well, not all) over
the world and was never asked to show an id before boarding public transportation. Does this mean every place I've been people bowed to me?:confused:

Like Tamaracboy said:
Bermudan officials ARE NOT caught off guard when a ship shows up

"What sane politician or businessman would turn down additional income for the lack of a few busses"
The key word here being SANE

More tourist income, additional infrastructure paid for by foreigners, additional employment

[modelman]

Wow this seems a lot of talk about nothing! They are holding a few spaces open on buses leaving Dockyard, so that there will be spaces on board further along the route so that passengers will still be able to board. How difficult is this? It is not taking tourists for granted, it is just trying to allow for everyone to use the bus system, not just people at one end.

[paulista1950]

Wow this seems a lot of talk about nothing! They are holding a few spaces open on buses leaving Dockyard, so that there will be spaces on board further along the route so that passengers will still be able to board. How difficult is this? It is not taking tourists for granted, it is just trying to allow for everyone to use the bus system, not just people at one end.

I just wonder why other the cities in the world don't use this brilliant system.
Here in SP we have the same problem with one particular subway line, but the solution was much better imho: some trains don't go till the last stop.

[earl_m]

I don't understand the last sentence. Which "there" did you mean? Bermuda is not in the Caribbean. Bermuda is very different from the Caribbean islands. Unlike the Caribbean islands, Bermuda is quieter, has more history, has no gambling. I love Bermuda for these reasons.

If you didn't like Bermuda and wanted something "livlier," then you might consider a Caribbean cruise.

I thought they had Casinos in Bermuda!!

[we're sailing away....]

??????? add more buses

[webfoot3]

The problem is simple logistics. Dockyards is the end of the line for two bus routes that go to Hamilton. Their bus is about 50% the size of a normal U.S. city transit bus and they do not encourage standing like we do in the states. Many of the workers in Hamilton who live in government subsidized housing live along these routes in older tourist accommodations that has been converted to affordable apartments. Even the new high speed ferries that run from Dockyards to Hamilton are probably not rated for more then 150 passengers (not sure of this). So add two ships with 2500 avg. passengers all wanting to travel to other parts of the islands at the same time and you have a problem even if you doubled the number of buses. There are two berths on Front St in Hamilton but at this time only The HAL Veendam is small enough to dock there. We will be traveling on the Veendam this coming Sunday and chose that ship because she still docked at Hamilton and tendered at St George.
I agree with those who say Bermuda is a "special" place. They very much like things controlled and really care about the well-being of their citizens. I was really surprised when they expanded Dockyards to accommodate more then one vessel at a time. They had to have known the problem this would cause.
This is one of those problems where both sides have good points. I think the solution lies with the government allowing the cruise lines to help solve the problem.

[catl331]

??????? add more busesThis might not help one bit. When 3,000 people are coming off a megaship, it would probably just mean that full buses are leaving the Dockyard more frequently.