Beware of rooms under the galley - Disgraceful they place people in those cabins!!!

[Boby]

:mad: Zaandam - Holland America
We were in cabin 3389 - lower Promenade deck. Our cruise was almost ruined because of our lack of sleep caused by having to listen to the galley noise all night long. The galley was above on the 4th floor next to the Rotterdam Restaurant. We expected noise such the ship, people etc. This was unacceptable noise- just extreme and constant. Holland America is very aware of the hell their passengers go through when booked under the galley. And yet, they still book people there. I have seen reviews of this very problem from the year 2000. Surely they could try and soundproof the floors and have their staff wear soft soled shoes only. The carts rolled around like rolling thunder and the staff walked around all night. It sounded like bowling balls on top of your head. I begged to move, but they said the ship was full. It is apparent that the staff and the front desk are very used to dealing with the constant complaints regarding this stretch of cabins. They gave us earplugs but that did not help. Had we been on land, we would have moved hotels whether or not we received a refund. Here you are held captive on a ship. The PR person sent us a note saying they would “monitor the situation” So basically they have been “monitoring the situation” since the inception of the ship!! So disappointing for our 1st cruise. Needless to say, our last cruise with Holland America. Now that we understand the importance of cabin placement,this will not happen again. I have booked a cruise to LA with Princess this September, and we picked out the cabin – made sure it was placed between cabins only. I even phoned Princess to ensure we would be able to sleep at least no public rooms or galleys anywhere near. Well, the rest of the trip was great, food was lovely and the entertainment was great. The staff are amazing!! – we love the cruising experience except for the unfortunate cabin we had. We indeed learned you need to be careful about your cabin with every cruise line.

[K&RCurt]

I have seen reviews of this very problem from the year 2000.


Then why did you book this cabin?

[KL Smith]

Very sorry to hear your experience. You go on a cruise to relax, not get stressed out due to lack of sleep.

I think most long time cruisers can attest to the fact we have all had one of "those" cabins at one time or another. If its not dining room noise, its the showroom, or the casino, or staff dragging chairs over the deck overhead, and on and on. Only with careful selection based on the deck plans can you hope to avoid this in the future.

Having said that, the worst cruises I have been on come with the drunks aguing and partying all night long next door!

Oh, and its not just HA that have these situations, all cruise lines I have be on do.

Better luck next cruise!

[Boby]

Hello,

We didn't book it. We went through an agency where you are assigned a room. We originally had a room on the Dolphin deck below which would have been very quiet. This was an upgrade Holland America gave us without our asking. Now, I will only book through the line itself and choose my room. I would rather pay more, be happy and sleep well! Our first cruise - had no idea!! :confused:

[BruceMuzz]

Every cruise line in the world does exactly the same thing.
There are noisy cabins on every ship.

Every airline in the world does exactly the same thing.
There are noisy seats on every flight.

How do you deal with this problem?
Do your homework before you book a flight - or a cruise cabin.

[gregdude]

Why blame HAL, your the one who went through a cruise consolidator. When you booked you must have agreed to accepting an upgrade if available. Why did you think that an upgraded cabin would be a better? Upgraded simply means higher in the pricing and that means higher up in the ship. I had a similar experience several years ago when the only cabin available was a guarantee "D". I took a guarantee because I booked late and knew that there was a good chance it would not be in an optimal location. I also ended up under the kitchen, but the noise began at around 6 AM and ended around 11 PM. This was a 42 night cruise, not 7, and I just enjoyed the cruise and service that HAL provides. Since that cruise I have learned to only accept specific cabins and not agree to an upgrade. Don't blame HAL this could and does happen on every ship at sea.

[Boby]

Hello,

I never asked for an upgrade and was never told over the phone that I could receive one - Remember - 1st cruise!! I have done a lot of traveling and there is no way in the world that it is acceptable putting passengers under a noisy galley. One would never put up with this in hotel, why would you at sea. The cruise line cannot control many things I'm sure regarding noise, but they can surely control where they put passengers to sleep knowing full well that they will be unhappy and not able to sleep. Disgusting! That is not good service by any stretch of the imagination.

[Cruz'n Couple]

We were under the galley last year on the Ryndam, but it only kept us awake till about 10:30 pm! Was our first experience with an outside cabin, so this year, we booked directly with HAL and go our favorite, Main deck, inside cabin, mid-ship. Sleeping was great--in fact one Sunday morning we missed Mass as we slept till 8:30 am.

[MsSteinrunner]

Many cabins face "temporary" problems-the anchor lowering, the tenders moving, the deck used to access shore, the thrusters, etc. Somehow, galley noise can be a special class of misery because it goes on for long, long hours and can be extremely loud and actually cause vibrations within a cabin for hours on end.

I wonder why there is not more insulation between decks, particularly the galley and the deck below? Further, particularly for the inexperienced cruiser, an exact analysis of those deck plans, even when one reads Critic Critic, can be difficult. Also, some parts of the galley are much, much noisier than other areas.

The casual cruiser will often choose a guarantee or book with a group. Those people have no idea the problems that might occur with given cabins. Fewer and fewer travel agents provide the type of service to identify these issues. We read on these boards of people who encounter total ignorance from "supposed" travel professionals.

The OP has a valid point; the newer cruisers do not possess the knowledge to avoid this. With experience comes knowledge - if they are brave enough to cruise again if they've had a really bad experience.

[Jade13]

Hello,

We didn't book it. We went through an agency where you are assigned a room. We originally had a room on the Dolphin deck below which would have been very quiet. This was an upgrade Holland America gave us without our asking. Now, I will only book through the line itself and choose my room. I would rather pay more, be happy and sleep well! Our first cruise - had no idea!! :confused:


You need to place a "Do not upgrade" on your booking so you do not get moved. Your travel agent should have asked you is you wished to receive a free upgrae (if available), or if you wanted "Do not upgrade" on your booking.

[innlady1]

Hello,

I never asked for an upgrade and was never told over the phone that I could receive one - Remember - 1st cruise!! I have done a lot of traveling and there is no way in the world that it is acceptable putting passengers under a noisy galley. One would never put up with this in hotel, why would you at sea. The cruise line cannot control many things I'm sure regarding noise, but they can surely control where they put passengers to sleep knowing full well that they will be unhappy and not able to sleep. Disgusting! That is not good service by any stretch of the imagination.



This is precisely why I always study the deck plans intensely and choose our stateroom based on my research...and have never been disappointed yet with 94 days on HAL. A lesson to learn. ALWAYS do your homework!

The more desirable staterooms are chosen by those who do their homework....the rest go to those who select a "guarantee" or go through a cruise consolidator.

[Boby]

Yes, do not upgrade..... I definitely checked that box on-line with Princess for our next cruise to LA in September on the Golden Princess.
This has not stopped us from booking another cruise as we loved the experience – minus the room. Now that we are aware, we can make the best possible choices that we can. And yes, one TA from the agency I used said she had never heard of noise from a galley. I suspect she had, but did not want to say. The 2nd one I spoke to was honest and said it can be a real problem. I feel really sorry for anyone else who will be experiencing what we did. I can’t imagine someone elderly having to endure that all night.

[Mary Ellen]

I can’t imagine someone elderly having to endure that all night. Actually these cabins are fine for a number of elderly cruisers. They take out their hearing aids at night.

This is just one reason we don't book 'guarantee' cabins and have our TA mark our reservation 'do not upgrade'.

[Boby]

Yes, I guess it would be suitable if you wore a hearing aid.

I read somewhere that I believe Carnival markets their less desirable, noisier rooms as "Night Owl Rooms" at a lesser price. I don't know if it is true, but it would be one way to attract those who wished to pay less, but were made aware to expect the noise. That way, there would be no bad suprises! That would be more than decent and fair!

[kazu]

First of all welcome to cruise critic and the HAL board.

For a newbie cruiser, you are right, it's tough - many people think an upgrade is a better room - it can be and it can be not! A higher deck is not a better cabin as you have found.

It pays to look at the deck plans ans something I just discovered 'watch for those white spaces unmarked' over or below you.

Have a great second cruise and believe me, there are some fantastic rooms on the ships:D

[Jemima]

15 HAL cruises all as guarantees and we haven't had a bad cabin yet.

[CtheW0rld]

welcome to CC. you won't get much sympathy here on the hal board. i feel for you though. you did learn. i've had a couple noisy cabins.

first was on costa that i got through a guarantee (last cabin on the ship, booked short notice). i did check above and below - only cabins, but a couple cabins down the hall was a crew door (actually a bulkhead door). that thing slammed at all hours, shaking the cabin. i even ventured to the other side to see what was going on and saw a big sign that said 'do not let door slammed'. after much going back and forth with the front desk, they stationed a security person there and eventually moved me to a different cabin.

another was on princess. again, only cabins above and below - no doors around this time. in calm seas, it was fine. in rough seas, the ship flexed and apparently i was on a flex point. the cabin walls would make a loud popping sound similar to tennis shoes in a dryer. through polite, but firm negotiations, i was moved to another cabin.

so no matter how much you plan and research, there are no guarantees.

[sapper1]

Before you book your next cruise, pick up a catalogue and study the deck plans. Then you can book a specific cabin that you will be happy with. Then mark it as a "do not upgrade". You may pay a little more if you don't use a "guarantee only" agency but the old adage about getting what you pay for is very true.

Your cruise on another line may be more enjoyable if you do your homework beforehand but then, if you had been more informed before you booked with HAL your cruise experience would have been different as well.

I don't dispute that your cabin location must have made you miserable and it is too bad because one spends a lot of money to take a cruise. You will find that Cruise Critic is a wonderful souce of tips and information. I know that my overall cruise experiences have been greatly enhanced by the tips I have picked up here.

[edmusic]

In defense of the OP from those who say you should do more research; the ships designer/architect/builder should be aware of cabins which may be more susceptible to noise after hours and either design them better or don't make them at all.

[kazu]

the ships designer/architect/builder should be aware of cabins which may be more susceptible to noise after hours and either design them better or don't make them at all.

are you kidding? They have to make max use out of every space on the ship. Otherwise we would be paying higher prices :eek:

I wish they would be designed better, and there should be a way to do it to buffer the noise, but it doesn't seem to to be the case on most cruise lines or even the new ones.

[BruceMuzz]

In defense of the OP from those who say you should do more research; the ships designer/architect/builder should be aware of cabins which may be more susceptible to noise after hours and either design them better or don't make them at all.

Yes, you are correct. They SHOULD NOT do that.
They also shouldn't build apartment buildings and hotels next to airports, railroad tracks, and expressways.
They also shouldn't place airplane seats in the very back of the airplane or next to the toilets.

But they all keep doing it.
Why?
Because there is always somebody cheap enough or naive enough to pay for them.

[djhsolara]

are you kidding? They have to make max use out of every space on the ship. Otherwise we would be paying higher prices :eek:

I wish they would be designed better, and there should be a way to do it to buffer the noise, but it doesn't seem to to be the case on most cruise lines or even the new ones.

Really...it seems that these kinds of spaces would be most appropriate for office space or something like that. I know that there are "bad" spots on every ship, but if this is really as bad as the OP has mentioned then perhaps it is a design issue.

In defense of the OP, on our first sailing we booked 2 weeks out...we were very lucky that 4 staterooms became available and according to the reservation agent we got the last stateroom on the ship. For us it was a lovely balcony on the Upper Verandah deck, but perhaps not everyone is that lucky. I know you get what you pay for, but not everyone has the luxury to pre-plan all of their vacations years in advance.

To the OP...although this was your first sailing ever and you did not have a good HAL experience, please give HAL another try. Pick you own stateroom in a good location. HAL is wonderful. These people on here are so defensive of HAL for a reason...HAL is a great product and experience. We've gone to Princess and said "Time to go back to HAL". We've gone to Carnival and said "Time to go back to HAL". We're trying Celebrity later this year...so we'll see what we say then. Cruising is different for everyone, but please do not base your feeling about HAL solely on this bad-stateroom-location experience. It does get much better out there.

:) :)

[SadieN]

Yes, I guess it would be suitable if you wore a hearing aid.

I read somewhere that I believe Carnival markets their less desirable, noisier rooms as "Night Owl Rooms" at a lesser price. I don't know if it is true, but it would be one way to attract those who wished to pay less, but were made aware to expect the noise. That way, there would be no bad suprises! That would be more than decent and fair!


Carnival does not have "Night Owl Room" rates. Some of the more expensive cabins are directly above the late night disco on a few ships. Maybe some other line? Or a long time ago?

Oddest cabin/galley experience we've ever had was in a cabin surrounded by other cabins. The venting system seemed to be tied into the galley. Every morning at 4am I would wake up hungry. The smell of roasting garlic does it every time. That was the only thing we smelled. Never heard a thing. It is a 'flaw' in the design. Was in the same cabin on a different ship in the same class and the same thing happened.

How was the trip besides the galley noise?

After many cruises on 3 different lines I'm still learning new things.

[grandmaR]

15 HAL cruises all as guarantees and we haven't had a bad cabin yet.

I cannot say the same. The OP is right.

Our first HAL cruise was B2B and I carefully picked an inside cabin (not a guarantee) so that we would not have to change. .....And then they upgraded us on the first part without asking. No matter what I did - ask nicely to go back to our original room, ask less nicely, tell them that I refused the upgrade.... no effect. They said it was my fault for not checking before embarkation.

They did give us another room on the same deck for the second cruise but... it WAS UNDER THE KITCHEN. Every morning at 4 am there were metal wheeled carts being rolled around.

This last cruise (Alaska) I had a guarantee and ended up in one of those rooms under the kitchen. But by this time I had a travel agent who was looking out for me and he asked if we wanted to upgrade to a veranda at extra cost. And I did that. The people who were next to our old room confirmed that the kitchen overhead was noisy and someone else in a nearby room was under a dishwasher.

The HAL Rotterdam class ships have bad rooms under the kitchen on the Lower Promenade deck which are very noisy and also there are some aft cabins on that same deck where under certain wind conditions (usually at dock) the whole end of the corridor and all the rooms smell of sewage because of re-entrained gases from the waste stack.

[Boby]

I saw this article from the Orlando Sentinel re: Night Owl rates - an 1998 article probably does not exist anymore.
http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-03-15/travel/9803120297_1_11-cabins-carnival-destiny (mhtml:{6F03CBA8-3DE2-4696-A4A7-AB4C79188DCF}mid://00000078/!x-usc:http://articles.orlandosentinel.com/1998-03-15/travel/9803120297_1_11-cabins-carnival-destiny)


I now see that people seem to have some strong allegiance to HAL. But please understand that I was not insulting anyone on this board.....I don't know any of you, therefore I cannot insult people personally. Nor would I. I was simply speaking of a matter that is very concerning and very unfair to passengers. You cannot logically argue that rolling carts and people walking around above your head all night is an acceptable accommodation - even for a cruise ship. And yes, I realize that is does happen on every ship. And no, that does not make it alright.

[caligirlfashionista]

Hello,

I never asked for an upgrade and was never told over the phone that I could receive one - Remember - 1st cruise!! I have done a lot of traveling and there is no way in the world that it is acceptable putting passengers under a noisy galley. One would never put up with this in hotel, why would you at sea. The cruise line cannot control many things I'm sure regarding noise, but they can surely control where they put passengers to sleep knowing full well that they will be unhappy and not able to sleep. Disgusting! That is not good service by any stretch of the imagination.



I agree 100% I have booked a inside guarantee and i sure hope we get a good cabin :/ while cruising with princess in the past with princess i never had that problem !wow ,,,, my fingers ,eyes and toes r now crossed;/

[JamesEM]

A good travel agent would have not allowed Holland to move you into a bad cabin, it pays to do your home work.

[edmusic]

Kazu wrote: are you kidding? They have to make max use out of every space on the ship. Otherwise we would be paying higher prices :eek:
I wish they would be designed better, and there should be a way to do it to buffer the noise, but it doesn't seem to to be the case on most cruise lines or even the new ones. __________________No, I'm not kidding. I think it's a shame that there are rooms designed and built, and what's worse - sold to people for full price that they know are inferior, defective, or subject to noise at hours that folks are trying to sleep. People (like the OP) are new to cruising on each and every cruise and should not be taken advantage of by the cruise company because they are naive or assuming and not 'in the know'. There is an 'implied guarantee' on each and every cabin sale that the person paying good money for their cruise should expect the same level of quality as everyone else and not be screwed or tricked into some inferior cabin so that others can enjoy their cabins at someone elses expense.

[solocanadian]

Re: Statendam, Ryndam, Maasdam. I booked FF721 on Ryndam - got upgraded to E781. Was thrilled until 6:30 AM the first day and every subsequent 13 days. Was rudely awoken EVERY morning at 6:30 to the lound sound of smashing glass. I was evidently above some darn recycling area. Unfortunately the deck plans don't show what is below A deck on these 3 ships. That taught me to say no upgrades. I don't even care for Lower Promenade on these ships. It's FF forward for me in the future on any of these ship unless I could afford Verandah Deck.

[edmusic]

BruceMuzz wrote: Yes, you are correct. They SHOULD NOT do that.
They also shouldn't build apartment buildings and hotels next to airports, railroad tracks, and expressways.
They also shouldn't place airplane seats in the very back of the airplane or next to the toilets.

But they all keep doing it.
Why?
Because there is always somebody cheap enough or naive enough to pay for them. Yeah, but at least you know when you move into an apartment or hotel that are next to train tracks or freeways. When you book a cruise, are you really expected to scrutinize the blueprints of the ship and try to decide if a room will be noisy or not? Or, if you're like me, you expect a well-respected cruise line like Holland America to deliver their promise of a high quality product each and every time you choose them for your vacation and not presume you may be taken advantage of because you are naive and assuming. And the last time I checked, there are no distinctions in the brochure or online that designate rooms which are nosier than others and 'marked down' to a lower price to accommodate all the 'somebody cheap enoughs' who want to cruise but really can't afford to.

[Jalex63]

The HAL Rotterdam class ships have bad rooms under the kitchen on the Lower Promenade deck which are very noisy and also there are some aft cabins on that same deck where under certain wind conditions (usually at dock) the whole end of the corridor and all the rooms smell of sewage because of re-entrained gases from the waste stack.

After reading this I am now worried. I have booked 3429 on the Rotterdam (aft inside on Lower Promenade) for 30 days in Jan.:eek: Now wondering if I should rebook? Certainly would be most unhappy (if not downright hostile) to end up in an area of sewage odor! Thisis first I have ever heard of this.

[vbmom87]

OP: I am really sorry you got a noisy cabin. It must have been very annoying to have to deal with all that noise. As a first time cruiser, this could have happened on any cruiseline. You mentioned you enjoyed everything else about the cruise, so I am confused why you wouldn't try HAL again, but just make sure you select a better cabin?

I agree that your TA is the one to blame. You and HAL are not to blame. You were a first time cruiser and were not aware of the differences in cabins. HAL did not book you, so they are not responsible. However, whomever you booked through was responsible to make you aware of deck plans and help you select a cabin that was suitable. Also, your TA should have asked you if wanted an upgrade or not. That box mentioned, must be checked if you do not want an upgrade. Your TA failed you on two accounts. I wouldn't use them again if it was me. That is whom I would let out my frustrations on.

As far as the hotel comment, I have to disagree. We had a hotel room once that was horribly noisy. We went to the front desk several times, very politely, but nothing could be done they said. The hotel was booked solid. They apologized, but we were stuck. Like cruise ships, hotel rooms do have issues sometimes. Some have thin walls...some you can hear every noise in the hallway, some have horrible windows that let in all the road noise, some are next to the elevator or ice machines, etc. So, just like you can get a bum room on a cruiseship, you can get a bum room in a hotel.

Next time you book a cruise do some searches and make some posts about the cabin you are considering. CC posters can help you make a great choice.

Enjoy your next cruise. I hope it is everything you wish it to be.


hotels

[ironin]

BruceMuzz wrote: Yeah, but at least you know when you move into an apartment or hotel that are next to train tracks or freeways. When you book a cruise, are you really expected to scrutinize the blueprints of the ship and try to decide if a room will be noisy or not? Or, if you're like me, you expect a well-respected cruise line like Holland America to deliver their promise of a high quality product each and every time you choose them for your vacation and not presume you may be taken advantage of because you are naive and assuming. And the last time I checked, there are no distinctions in the brochure or online that designate rooms which are nosier than others and 'marked down' to a lower price to accommodate all the 'somebody cheap enoughs' who want to cruise but really can't afford to.

Whether it is fair or not, all cruise lines have cabins that are undesirable for some reason or another. None broadcast that information.

To the OP:

I'm sorry your room was so noisy. I second what vbmom87 said above (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=29439235&postcount=32). Great advice.

Side note: We booked a guarantee on another cruise line. Fortunately, when the room # popped up, we checked it out here on Cruise Critic. Turns out it was directly below the bread-making equipment which reportedly ran all night long. We promptly upgraded to another level but still "guarantee." That stateroom was all the way forward and we discovered even more complaints about it. As luck would have it, prices were dropping for that cruise. Our lesson learned, we picked a specific verandah cabin for a bit more. We later took an upsell to a specific suite. The "clump-clump-clump" of very early morning joggers overhead usually woke one of us up every morning despite notices saying no jogging on the deck above. Occasionally, someone in another stateroom could be heard yelling up from their verandah, "Can't you read? No jogging!" Naturally, he (it was always a he) woke even more people up. *LOL*

[Math Guy]

We are booked aboard the Zaandam, Sept. 25 for 17 days in Cabin J3355. We know that this cabin abbuts the midship stairwell, and is 'conveniently' located directly below the Pinnacle Grill.

So much for an ideal location.

However, we are approaching close to having enjoyed 200 cruising days...most of which were last-minute bargains which could not be passed up.

We book these cruises blind-folded, and never know what our accomodation will be or where it will be located.

But, we have never regretted any of our cruises. We always bring our own earplugs, although we have rarely had to use them. We know that we will probably have to adapt to a less-than-perfect situation, but in the end, we stick to our cruising formula.

So far, it's working for us.

[DoverHeights]

I can't believe half of the responses here. Why should anybody paying good money for a cabin IN WHICH YOU SLEEP, be subjected to constant company originated noise - other than say, engine hum or wave breaks.

Those "cabins" should not be sold! Simple as that.

And, you can book 8 months ahead and be forced into a "guarantee" situation where you cannot choose your cabin. But regardless, why should unsleepworthy "cabins", "state-rooms" - whatever the current sales term is, be sold to well-meaning trusting clients?

[IRL_Joanie]

I can't believe half of the responses here. Why should anybody paying good money for a cabin IN WHICH YOU SLEEP, be subjected to constant company originated noise - other than say, engine hum or wave breaks.

Those "cabins" should not be sold! Simple as that.

And, you can book 8 months ahead and be forced into a "guarantee" situation where you cannot choose your cabin. But regardless, why should unsleepworthy "cabins", "state-rooms" - whatever the current sales term is, be sold to well-meaning trusting clients?

And are you willing to pay extra because HAL should not SELL those staterooms?? If they do not sell them to someone, someone else will have to EAT the cost! I am not willing to eat that cost!!

It is called Buyers beware and also RESEARCH before you buy:) No Research, no belly aching afterwards. And that includes being aware that if you are not willing to risk getting one of THIOSE rooms, mark yourself as NO UPGRADE!!! And DO NOT purchase the cruise as a Guarantee.JMO

When I get ready to purchase anything for my home or personal use that costs a bit of money, I go on line and research the item(s) I read reviews, I Find out about the item(s) first. Same goes for a cruise... RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!!

Joanie

[startwin]

Kazu wrote: No, I'm not kidding. I think it's a shame that there are rooms designed and built, and what's worse - sold to people for full price that they know are inferior, defective, or subject to noise at hours that folks are trying to sleep. People (like the OP) are new to cruising on each and every cruise and should not be taken advantage of by the cruise company because they are naive or assuming and not 'in the know'. There is an 'implied guarantee' on each and every cabin sale that the person paying good money for their cruise should expect the same level of quality as everyone else and not be screwed or tricked into some inferior cabin so that others can enjoy their cabins at someone elses expense.

I totally agree, and attacking the OP and screeching `RESEARCH`is way out of line. The cabins should be sold at a discount, it`s simply not fair that some passengers have to endure inferior quality while paying the same as others.

[kazu]

And are you willing to pay extra because HAL should not SELL those staterooms?? If they do not sell them to someone, someone else will have to EAT the cost! I am not willing to eat that cost!!

It is called Buyers beware and also RESEARCH before you buy:) No Research, no belly aching afterwards. And that includes being aware that if you are not willing to risk getting one of THIOSE rooms, mark yourself as NO UPGRADE!!! And DO NOT purchase the cruise as a Guarantee.JMO

When I get ready to purchase anything for my home or personal use that costs a bit of money, I go on line and research the item(s) I read reviews, I Find out about the item(s) first. Same goes for a cruise... RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!!

Joanie

That's the point I was trying to make earlier Joanie - if the ship isn't full then the prices are going up. There are so many places on the ship that might bother some and not others. For example, aft cabins (which many people love) may not be loved by those who don't like the vibration or the noise of the anchor. Forward cabins may not be loved by those who prefer central locations and others think they are fabulous.

some people don't want to be next to elevators - others want to be next to the elevator. The list goes on and on.


The TA has the responsibility IMO to assist in the choosing of a cabin - especially with a first time cruiser. It's a shame the op's experience was marred by this. However, I feel the blame lands more squarely on the TA than anyone else. Most ships in every cruise line have rooms with flaws

[ironin]

I can't believe half of the responses here. Why should anybody paying good money for a cabin IN WHICH YOU SLEEP, be subjected to constant company originated noise - other than say, engine hum or wave breaks.

Those "cabins" should not be sold! Simple as that.


Why draw the line at "company produced noise," engine hum and wave breaks? People complain all the time about engine noise and occasionally about wave breaks. People complain about being in aft cabins underneath the Lido Deck because of "company produced noise" and noise produced by passengers. People complain all the time about noise from chairs being moved around the Lido pool in the early morning and late evening. Should they stop selling those, too? People often complain about noise generated by the tender boats being lowered in the mornings. Guess they should stop selling the nearby cabins, too. People in staterooms below are upset that chairs are constantly being moved and others are walking around the lower promenade above their rooms. Stop selling those? People complain about the noise and traffic generated by the self-service laundry rooms. People complain all the time about all the noise and traffic generated by being on the deck everyone uses to depart the ship in the morning. Mark those off the list of available cabins, too?

Kitchens and such things have to be placed somewhere convenient on the ship. It wouldn't be very practical to locate them three decks below the dining room.

And, you can book 8 months ahead and be forced into a "guarantee" situation where you cannot choose your cabin. Sorry, but you weren't forced into anything. For whatever reason, you chose a category that was already oversold. HAL ships have up to 8 different Inside cabin categories, 9 different Outside cabin categories, 7 different Verandah categories, and 6 different Suite categories.

The different prices charged for the different categories generally take into account the desirability of the location and other factors such as cabin-size. As with many things in life, what one person might find objectionable or intolerable another just as often wouldn't notice or give a second thought about.

Back to that "guarantee" issues: If cabins in DD class, for example, are being offered "guarantee only," there are almost always specific cabins in more and less expensive categories still available for selection. Once a category goes to guarantee, it means more people have selected that class than there are cabins available on the ship. Provided there are cabins unsold in more expensive categories, they continue selling the category until the ship is full because, for whatever reason, that is the price point that is attracting customers on a particular cruise. It also means some of the people booking the category get upgraded to a higher level unsold cabin, which may or may not be better in the opinion of the customer.

[Randyk47]

That's the point I was trying to make earlier Joanie - if the ship isn't full then the prices are going up. There are so many places on the ship that might bother some and not others. For example, aft cabins (which many people love) may not be loved by those who don't like the vibration or the noise of the anchor. Forward cabins may not be loved by those who prefer central locations and others think they are fabulous.

some people don't want to be next to elevators - others want to be next to the elevator. The list goes on and on.


The TA has the responsibility IMO to assist in the choosing of a cabin - especially with a first time cruiser. It's a shame the op's experience was marred by this. However, I feel the blame lands more squarely on the TA than anyone else. Most ships in every cruise line have rooms with flaws

No doubt there are cabins that are preferrable and not just because they're bigger or have a veranda or a window instead of a set of port holes, or whatever. Over the years we've developed our own set of requirements. Don't want a cabin too far forward, don't want a cabin too far aft, don't want an inside cabin, don't want a cabin without a veranda, and so on. Now I don't rely on a TA to make cabin choices for me but I guess if I did I'd give them my list of requirements and hopefully they'd know the ship well enough to pick the cabin that best fit my requirements.

[DoverHeights]

Glad I'm not travelling on a cruise starting on Sept 17 2011.

Regardless of what you pay, regardless of how trusting you may be, it is inexcusable to sell cabins which are subjected to totally predictable (to the company), sleep-preventing noise.

This is not caveat emptor - buyer beware - this is knowlingly selling a "faulty" product as perfect. There are laws about that in my country.

If there were warnings in the deck plans that cabins 1234,4567,etc. were subject to long periods - or even just periods, of noise from the adjacent or above kitchens, that would be a different matter - but there are none!

And with respect to being forced to take a guarantee, would some suggest that if the only balcony state rooms available were an extra 50% in price, that they should be snapped up?

Obviously not all cabins/state rooms are equal and even within a class/price, not the same. But there should be minimal standards for all accommodation - and that should include being able to sleep without using ear plugs.

[vbmom87]

Why draw the line at "company produced noise," engine hum and wave breaks? People complain all the time about engine noise and occasionally about wave breaks. People complain about being in aft cabins underneath the Lido Deck because of "company produced noise" and noise produced by passengers. People complain all the time about noise from chairs being moved around the Lido pool in the early morning and late evening. Should they stop selling those, too? People often complain about noise generated by the tender boats being lowered in the mornings. Guess they should stop selling the nearby cabins, too. People in staterooms below are upset that chairs are constantly being moved and others are walking around the lower promenade above their rooms. Stop selling those? People complain about the noise and traffic generated by the self-service laundry rooms. People complain all the time about all the noise and traffic generated by being on the deck everyone uses to depart the ship in the morning. Mark those off the list of available cabins, too?

Kitchens and such things have to be placed somewhere convenient on the ship. It wouldn't be very practical to locate them three decks below the dining room.

Sorry, but you weren't forced into anything. For whatever reason, you chose a category that was already oversold. HAL ships have up to 8 different Inside cabin categories, 9 different Outside cabin categories, 7 different Verandah categories, and 6 different Suite categories.

The different prices charged for the different categories generally take into account the desirability of the location and other factors such as cabin-size. As with many things in life, what one person might find objectionable or intolerable another just as often wouldn't notice or give a second thought about.

Back to that "guarantee" issues: If cabins in DD class, for example, are being offered "guarantee only," there are almost always specific cabins in more and less expensive categories still available for selection. Once a category goes to guarantee, it means more people have selected that class than there are cabins available on the ship. Provided there are cabins unsold in more expensive categories, they continue selling the category until the ship is full because, for whatever reason, that is the price point that is attracting customers on a particular cruise. It also means some of the people booking the category get upgraded to a higher level unsold cabin, which may or may not be better in the opinion of the customer.

Well said.

[FrankNJ]

Hello,

We didn't book it. We went through an agency where you are assigned a room. We originally had a room on the Dolphin deck below which would have been very quiet. This was an upgrade Holland America gave us without our asking. Now, I will only book through the line itself and choose my room. I would rather pay more, be happy and sleep well! Our first cruise - had no idea!! :confused:

Dolphin Deck ? I know Princess has Dolphin Decks , I didn't know HAL has them .

[gregdude]

Case in point: We are booked on the Zaandam, South bound in Alaska from Seward to Vancouver. We originally selected cabin 3353 on the starboard side of the ship (there were no "C" cabins available on the port side at the time). I made certain that we were no next to an exit door to the deck, not across from the laundry, not under a kitchen.... Two weeks ago I noticed that cabin 3346 had opened up (port side). I called HAL and requested a room change which they were very happy to do. To the credit of the agent she asked do you want an upgrade if one becomes available? She followed this by saying you could end up on the wrong side of the ship if you agree to an upgrade. Of course my response was NO UPGRADE! I now know I will be in a location that I have selected.

[Pete Jackson]

.... We later took an upsell to a specific suite. The "clump-clump-clump" of very early morning joggers overhead usually woke one of us up every morning despite notices saying no jogging on the deck above. Occasionally, someone in another stateroom could be heard yelling up from their verandah, "Can't you read? No jogging!" Naturally, he (it was always a he) woke even more people up. *LOL*

That taught me something. I always thought that the 'No Jogging' was so as to not interfere with persons just standing or walking. I never considered that the main reason was to not make noise for people below. Perhaps some joggers thought likewise and figured it was OK to jog as long as they were alone on the deck.

[Globaliser]

This is not caveat emptor - buyer beware - this is knowlingly selling a "faulty" product as perfect. There are laws about that in my country.I think you'll find that HAL sells a lot of cruises "in your country". But I don't see HAL getting taken apart every time the cruise line has the temerity to put someone in one of these less desirable cabin.

So it seems likely that either your countrymen don't agree that the product is faulty, or your country's regulators and courts don't agree that the product is faulty.And with respect to being forced to take a guarantee, would some suggest that if the only balcony state rooms available were an extra 50% in price, that they should be snapped up?You're not forced to cruise, or to cruise on that particular sailing. If there are no rooms that you like at a price that you like, you can always wait until next time.

So: nobody forced you to take a guarantee.

[ironin]

Glad I'm not travelling on a cruise starting on Sept 17 2011.

Regardless of what you pay, regardless of how trusting you may be, it is inexcusable to sell cabins which are subjected to totally predictable (to the company), sleep-preventing noise.

This is not caveat emptor - buyer beware - this is knowlingly selling a "faulty" product as perfect. There are laws about that in my country.

If there were warnings in the deck plans that cabins 1234,4567,etc. were subject to long periods - or even just periods, of noise from the adjacent or above kitchens, that would be a different matter - but there are none!

And with respect to being forced to take a guarantee, would some suggest that if the only balcony state rooms available were an extra 50% in price, that they should be snapped up?

Obviously not all cabins/state rooms are equal and even within a class/price, not the same. But there should be minimal standards for all accommodation - and that should include being able to sleep without using ear plugs.

A few thousand people a year occupy the cabins you are talking about. For some strange reason, most of them don't complain. Imagine that! Perhaps they aren't ALL as horrific as you believe them to be based on a couple of random comments here.

Your argument about about being "forced" to take a guarantee continues to be an inaccurate portrayal of the facts. All along the way, you had choices. You didn't want to spend the additional money necessary to select a cabin at that point for that cruise. Your choice. Others beat you to the punch when specific cabins were available. Your choice to not book early, or skip this sailing or look for another ship. You made the choices. Most people are willing to live with their choices and not blame others for their own decisions. It's also your choice to complain about the consequences of your personal decisions on a public forum.

[kazu]

A few thousand people a year occupy the cabins you are talking about. For some strange reason, most of them don't complain. Imagine that! Perhaps they aren't ALL as horrific as you believe them to be based on a couple of random comments here.

Your argument about about being "forced" to take a guarantee continues to be an inaccurate portrayal of the facts. All along the way, you had choices. You didn't want to spend the additional money necessary to select a cabin at that point for that cruise. Your choice. Others beat you to the punch when specific cabins were available. Your choice to not book early, or skip this sailing or look for another ship. You made the choices. Most people are willing to live with their choices and not blame others for their own decisions. It's also your choice to complain about the consequences of your personal decisions on a public forum.

Right on! You know, if you really want to, you could probably pick apart just about any cabin on any sailing:p I'm not discounting the op's discomfort in any way believe me. but you are absolutely right - no one is forced to take a guarantee:D most people do it hoping for a 'better' room. Many think an upgrade means a better room/location. As we know, this is not always the case;)

[Boby]

Hello,

We also heard the staff putting out the deck chairs each morning. That is the type of noise I expect - staff cleaning, doing chores, door slamming, drunken partiers, people talking loudly on the promenade deck, engine noise – etc. - that type of noise is going to happen anywhere. But constant rolling thunder is something you have to experience yourself to truly understand! When booking I tried to get a balcony, but were told they were sold out. Okay, so I knew nothing about cruises - now I know so much more. Lesson learned - got it - Research!
Personally, I would have paid any amount to get out of that cabin if they had another. I would pay much more for a decent room.

I realize that sometimes hotels are full and you cannot move. I have been lucky and have had all my requests to move accommodated. I do know firsthand that some hotels have very thin walls. We always stay at the MayFlower Park in Seattle, and the walls don’t get much thinner than their walls. But I know what to expect so we always try to book a corner suite so we don’t have that problem. Yes, I learned that from our experience staying there. We love the hotel, and can choose wisely because we are in the know. Just like so many of you on this board you have experience with cruises. I didn’t, now I do!

I think what made us the angriest is the note left from Holland America saying they were “monitoring the situation”
They have been doing this for many years now!! I spoke with one of the staff who did tell us that people in our room are constantly complaining and unhappy. So, that would make their claim of “Signature of Excellence” non-existent. The point is that some poor suckers will end up in that stretch of rooms under the Rotterdam kitchen galley unfortunately. And that, I believe is truly unethical.

[BruceMuzz]

I manage a ship with over 1,500 cabins.
During the past year, we have been told at various times by passengers that over 1,000 of those cabins are too noisy and should not be sold to the public.

[iancal]

Based on comments on this board in the past, our practice for a good many years is to select a cabin (unless we are on a balcony gty) that is in between 2 decks of cabins, ie staterooms below and above us. We also want a cabin that does not have a connecting door to another cabin. We will give up location and category selection in order to attain this.

[Jade13]

Your argument about about being "forced" to take a guarantee continues to be an inaccurate portrayal of the facts. All along the way, you had choices. You didn't want to spend the additional money necessary to select a cabin at that point for that cruise. Your choice. Others beat you to the punch when specific cabins were available. Your choice to not book early, or skip this sailing or look for another ship. You made the choices. Most people are willing to live with their choices and not blame others for their own decisions. It's also your choice to complain about the consequences of your personal decisions on a public forum.

Very well said. I never understood the part about being "forced" to take a guarantee. I assumed the OP took the cheaper option.

[Jade13]

I manage a ship with over 1,500 cabins.
During the past year, we have been told at various times by passengers that over 1,000 of those cabins are too noisy and should not be sold to the public.

Too funny.

We like foward cabins, but people complain all the time that they might be bumpy and the only good cabins are midship.

[schoolinmy3]

I manage a ship with over 1,500 cabins.
During the past year, we have been told at various times by passengers that over 1,000 of those cabins are too noisy and should not be sold to the public.

:D Somehow I believe that to be totally true! The one complaint my friend made when returning from her very first cruise last week on the Veendam - how rude some of our fellow cruisers were and how well the crew and staff handle them. By the way, she loved her room - K549 sideways cabin - very spacious - which I picked out for her after much research. In May aboard the Noordam I had booked a guarantee as my son didn't care what room he ended up in. Well, we loved our room as it was a VA one deck below the Lido. Yummy! I am positive someone has complained about that room because you can hear the deck chairs getting set up around 6:30 a.m. by the aft pool. Bonus for me - I didn't need to set an alarm. :) And I didn't need to wait for an elevator to get something to eat. :)
Diane

[edmusic]

IRL Joanie wrote: And are you willing to pay extra because HAL should not SELL those staterooms?? If they do not sell them to someone, someone else will have to EAT the cost! I am not willing to eat that cost!! Joanie - with all due respect to your expertise in cruising, I must take exception to your rationale here. With this logic (which makes some sense, by the way) how about people pay more than the brochure price for the most desirable rooms and others pay less for the rooms which have the 'defects'? It's that way at sporting events: the seats on the floor next to the Lakers cost $1500 per seat while those up a number of rows and off to the side cost $75. Everyone knows it beforehand and knows that it will cost more if they want the best experience. What the cruise line is loosely doing is selling the $75 seats for $1500 and then saying 'Talk to the hand' when someone complains.

If everything is disclosed upfront, then everyone will be happy. Those who want the absolute best will get it and pay the premium, and those who will take the defects at least know it upfront and are willing to put up with it due to the lower cost. It's a trade-off that's fair to everyone. For the seasoned cruisers to cherry pick the best cabins which sell for roughly the same as the problem cabins and get to enjoy them because the un-seasoned are subsidizing it, is just is not fair and equitable IMHO.

[kazu]

IRL Joanie wrote: Joanie - with all due respect to your expertise in cruising, I must take exception to your rationale here. With this logic (which makes some sense, by the way) how about people pay more than the brochure price for the most desirable rooms and others pay less for the rooms which have the 'defects'? It's that way at sporting events: the seats on the floor next to the Lakers cost $1500 per seat while those up a number of rows and off to the side cost $75. Everyone knows it beforehand and knows that it will cost more if they want the best experience. What the cruise line is loosely doing is selling the $75 seats for $1500 and then saying 'Talk to the hand' when someone complains.

If everything is disclosed upfront, then everyone will be happy. Those who want the absolute best will get it and pay the premium, and those who will take the defects at least know it upfront and are willing to put up with it due to the lower cost. It's a trade-off that's fair to everyone. For the seasoned cruisers to cherry pick the best cabins which sell for roughly the same as the problem cabins and get to enjoy them because the un-seasoned are subsidizing it, is just is not fair and equitable IMHO.

with all due respect, the seasoned cruisers tend to buy early - they are not getting any last minute deals - cruises cqn go on sale many times (not all, mind you) after they have paid they final deposit - and they don't get the price - so they have paid a premium to get the good cabin.

Others, get a 'steal of a deal' for booking last minute or in a shorter time frame and as a result, have fewer choices in cabins. I would venture to say that to certain extent, that some are already paying a premium to get the cabin they want. JMO and my experience though;)

[Boytjie]

We also want a cabin that does not have a connecting door to another cabin.

Have you had a bad experience with one before (just asking, not meant as a comment/critique of your choice)? We have had a couple of cabins with connecting doors and have never had a bad experience in any.

[Jemima]

Experienced cruisers do not all book specific cabins and they do not all book far ahead. Experienced cruisers use methods that work well for them. For us that is booking guarantees, usually booking 2 to 6 months ahead and using a HAL PCC. Others will have different methods that work for them.
While we've heard various noises, we've never been much bothered by them. I'm more concerned about the possibility of smokers on the next balcony or getting a cabin with a/c or plumbing problems than I am with what's in the white spaces.

[sapper1]

Have you had a bad experience with one before (just asking, not meant as a comment/critique of your choice)? We have had a couple of cabins with connecting doors and have never had a bad experience in any.

You lose a closet with the adjoining door. I haven't noticed any extra noise associated with the set up though. We

[IRL_Joanie]

Glad I'm not travelling on a cruise starting on Sept 17 2011.
..............................


You might also want to avoid the same cruise ship the week prior, Sept 10 2011 and the Noordam March 5 2012:D:D

Joanie

[gillybean1974]

Eek, I noticed on the deck plans for our ship that there is a blank space directly above our cabin, we are L2514 on the Volendam and there is a blank space above us on the lower promenade deck. Really hoping its not noisy up there, a little worried now after reading this!!
I guess if it is it will be a nice distraction from hubby's snoring, I already have great earplugs ;)

Gillian :)

[jimmy2x]

It is called Buyers beware and also RESEARCH before you buy:) No Research, no belly aching afterwards. And that includes being aware that if you are not willing to risk getting one of THIOSE rooms, mark yourself as NO UPGRADE!!! And DO NOT purchase the cruise as a Guarantee.JMO

When I get ready to purchase anything for my home or personal use that costs a bit of money, I go on line and research the item(s) I read reviews, I Find out about the item(s) first. Same goes for a cruise... RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!! RESEARCH!!

I could not POSSIBLY have said this any better. Prior to the internet, we always did our research at the library and purchased guide books to assist in our travels.

It is so ridiculously easy to research via the internet, that I have little sympathy with those who will not take the time to find out information that is easily available prior to spending any significant amount of cash.

There are many things on any cruise that are beyond an individual's control. Cabin location does not have to be one of them.

[Boytjie]

Eek, I noticed on the deck plans for our ship that there is a blank space directly above our cabin, we are L2514 on the Volendam and there is a blank space above us on the lower promenade deck. Really hoping its not noisy up there, a little worried now after reading this!!
I guess if it is it will be a nice distraction from hubby's snoring, I already have great earplugs ;)

Gillian :)

Not every blank space means it is a noisy area.

We were on the Amsterdam and underneath some area related to the dining room/kitchen but did not hear much noise. There was more noise from the washing down of the Promenade deck outside our cabin.

It's a ship and noises and movement are expected on a ship. Excessive noise could be problematic but so far the worst noises I can recall on any cruises were from people - loud and drunk in the corridor during the night and once a couple fighting next door (which lasted less than an hour and was not repeated)

[vbmom87]

Eek, I noticed on the deck plans for our ship that there is a blank space directly above our cabin, we are L2514 on the Volendam and there is a blank space above us on the lower promenade deck. Really hoping its not noisy up there, a little worried now after reading this!!
I guess if it is it will be a nice distraction from hubby's snoring, I already have great earplugs ;)

Gillian :)

Go to the HAL board and ask about this cabin there. You should be able to find out what it is and decide if you want to try to change cabins.

[kazu]

Go to the HAL board and ask about this cabin there. You should be able to find out what it is and decide if you want to try to change cabins.

you might also want to check Joanie's website (sticky) if you haven't already. There might be some info there

[IRL_Joanie]

Eek, I noticed on the deck plans for our ship that there is a blank space directly above our cabin, we are L2514 on the Volendam and there is a blank space above us on the lower promenade deck. Really hoping its not noisy up there, a little worried now after reading this!!
I guess if it is it will be a nice distraction from hubby's snoring, I already have great earplugs ;)

Gillian :)

Half of your stateroom will be below K 3308, which is a sideways stateroom. Looks also like part of DD 3306 and a hallway between those 2 staterooms on ddeck 3 are above you. I do not think you should have any worries. If it helps look at the deck plans here with side by side for decks 2 & 3: http://joanjett2000.topcities.com/HAL/Volendam/Volendam-Compare-Stateroom-Decks.jpg

Boy do I understand about snoring :(

Joanie

[vbmom87]

We were on the Amsterdam and underneath some area related to the dining room/kitchen but did not hear much noise. There was more noise from the washing down of the Promenade deck outside our cabin.



I believe it was you who mentioned you were in cabin 3384 on the Amsterdam. Am I correct? I chose this cabin because you or someone else said it was quiet. Now you are saying you did not hear much noise. What time of the day did you hear this "not much noise." I don't need perfect silence, but I would be disappointed to have a lot noise above me. I think I still have time to change cabins if I need to. I originally chose 3419, but then we cancelled and rebooked for the price drop and chose 3384 based on someone's comments I read. I was going to try to get 3419 again when it was released, but my DH liked the idea of being more midship.

[Boytjie]

You lose a closet with the adjoining door. I haven't noticed any extra noise associated with the set up though. We

I believe we had the same closet space in VD cabins on the Eurodam compared to others verandah cabins.

[gillybean1974]

Half of your stateroom will be below K 3308, which is a sideways stateroom. Looks also like part of DD 3306 and a hallway between those 2 staterooms on ddeck 3 are above you. I do not think you should have any worries. If it helps look at the deck plans here with side by side for decks 2 & 3: http://joanjett2000.topcities.com/HAL/Volendam/Volendam-Compare-Stateroom-Decks.jpg

Boy do I understand about snoring :(

Joanie

Thanks Joanie, I panicked after reading this thread and remembered I had seen a blank spot above us, was actually more worried about my sons sleep as he's a light sleeper.

Sorry you understand about the snoring as a fellow sufferer I share your agony. Thank heavens for earplugs!

Do you need pictures of this cabin for your site or do you have enough from this area? I'll be happy to pass them on to you.

[grandmaR]

After reading this I am now worried. I have booked 3429 on the Rotterdam (aft inside on Lower Promenade) for 30 days in Jan.:eek: Now wondering if I should rebook? Certainly would be most unhappy (if not downright hostile) to end up in an area of sewage odor! Thisis first I have ever heard of this.

The Rotterdam is actually a little bit different than the rest of this class. I had an obstructed ocean view cabin on the Lower Promenade deck (don't remember the cabin number) and it was fine. The ship where we had the problem was the Statendam and we were aft of the aft elevators - about halfway between the elevators and the end of the corridor.

HAL tries to cover this desgn flaw up, although other people have written about it.

You may not have any problem.

Our preference is for an inside cabin in the center of the ship. The center has less movement (although we don't have a problem with a little rough weather). Halfway between the restaurants and the theater. Most of the time there's really not much to see except water so I don't need a window and I don't want to pay extra for it. The HAL bow camera is very good if I do want to see something (unlike RCI which has a totally bogus bow camera and Celebrity isn't much better). I did get a veranda for Alaska and was glad that I did because I could see without fighting for a place at the rail. I think the Panama Canal might be similar although we had an obstructed view for that.

It is the forward cabins that have anchor noise BTW - not aft. Aft cabins have engine noise. And you don't have anchor noise if the ship is not anchoring. So we anchored in Icy Strait Point, but if we had been in Grand Cayman, they don't anchor as a general rule even if though it is a tender port. I don't like cabins at the bow because I have difficulty walking and there is a long walk from the bow to the restaurants.

My real complaint with HAL was that they upgraded me on one half of a b2b when I did NOT have a guarentee and had picked a specific cabin that I wanted. And then they wouldn't correct their error. I really would not have been that bothered by the noise because I'm not a light sleeper and not hyper at all about getting sleep. So I wake up - well I just lie in bed and think, or get up and do something, or go back to sleep. Whatever. But since it was NOT the cabin I picked out, I found the noise especially annoying because I knew that I shouldn't have the problem.

[Boytjie]

I believe it was you who mentioned you were in cabin 3384 on the Amsterdam. Am I correct? I chose this cabin because you or someone else said it was quiet. Now you are saying you did not hear much noise. What time of the day did you hear this "not much noise." I don't need perfect silence, but I would be disappointed to have a lot noise above me. I think I still have time to change cabins if I need to. I originally chose 3419, but then we cancelled and rebooked for the price drop and chose 3384 based on someone's comments I read. I was going to try to get 3419 again when it was released, but my DH liked the idea of being more midship.

Yes, it could have been me. :) I am not so sure that I would have said there was no noise at all, I have usually mentioned any noises there.

Sometimes in the morning we could here some muffled shuffling above us but I don't recall it ever waking me up - and I am a light sleeper. This was back in 2007 and trying to remember... it may have been around 6:30 - 7:00 am - when we would usually be awake anyway.

The other noise was from washing down the decks around the same time and that could affect all the outside cabins on the Promenade deck.

[TiogaCruiser]

Before our last cruise our TA let us know we could upgrade to an outside HH instead of the J we planned when prices dropped. I purposely did not want any of the HHs that were left as all were below the galley or something else and we wanted the larger cabin. The HAL rep on the other line was telling her the cabin was not below the galley..... And it was the same square footage as the J. Neither was true! I had a galley plan from a previous cruise and the area directly above that cabin was not marked on the ship plan but on the galley map we were given. The ship plan had "galley" written on a small subset of the whole galley and only on port side! So how could someone, TA or HAL rep, know if the plan doesn't show it and they have not been on the ship in those areas? Also, from what I've read here on CC, I believe our j was larger.

[IRL_Joanie]

Thanks Joanie, I panicked after reading this thread and remembered I had seen a blank spot above us, was actually more worried about my sons sleep as he's a light sleeper.

Sorry you understand about the snoring as a fellow sufferer I share your agony. Thank heavens for earplugs!

Do you need pictures of this cabin for your site or do you have enough from this area? I'll be happy to pass them on to you.

I always need photos!!! Please take tons for me???

The snoring, I've not had to resort to ear plugs in more than 37 or 38 years now. I learned about 2 years into the marriage and hundreds of nights of sleeplessness about a little machine called a Sleep Mate (NO NOT HUMAN :D) A machine that puts out white noise. Man oh Man, he can snore the house down, but with that running I sleep like a baby:)

What is funny is that even after 40+ years of marriage, one audio and one video tape of his snoring, he still refuses to admit that it is him!! I swear a freight train could be coming and he would overpower the sound of it:(

Joanie

[vbmom87]

Also, from what I've read here on CC, I believe our j was larger.

I do think the J on the Amsterdam is larger than the HHs on the Amsterdam. We moved from a nice J to the HH. My DH really was concerned about having no kind of window. I would have been content with the J. I will know more in August when we actually experience the HH.

Much discussion has been made about noisy cabins, but I do know the cabin I paid for is a lower priced cabin and therefore I should not expect a 5 star hotel experience.

[gillybean1974]

I always need photos!!! Please take tons for me???

The snoring, I've not had to resort to ear plugs in more than 37 or 38 years now. I learned about 2 years into the marriage and hundreds of nights of sleeplessness about a little machine called a Sleep Mate (NO NOT HUMAN :D) A machine that puts out white noise. Man oh Man, he can snore the house down, but with that running I sleep like a baby:)

What is funny is that even after 40+ years of marriage, one audio and one video tape of his snoring, he still refuses to admit that it is him!! I swear a freight train could be coming and he would overpower the sound of it:(

Joanie

I will email you the pictures (and some videos maybe if I can ever figure out how to load them) after our cruise, we take lots of pictures. Will be taking them over all the ship as my mum wants to see all the ship.

My hubby says he doesn't snore that bad, has been saying that for 14 years yet he sounds like a train/jackhammer also. I never though of videoing his snoring, I'm so going to try that tonight. I am going to google the sleep mate machine now, never heard of this and it sounds wonderful. I love my hubby very much, its only his snoring that drives me nuts Happy to hear you have survived the snoring through 40+ years of marriage!!

[Pettifogger]

If I were to unexpectedly inherit a cruise line from a distant relative of whose existence I had previously been unaware, I would take the suggestion of a couple of posters on this thread and ask management why they couldn't designate the cabins with known overhead noise problems as "activity cabins", or something neutral-sounding like that, and give them an appropriate category letter like obstructed view cabins.

Then instead of surprising unsuspecting passengers with a known noise problem cabin, the product could be sold by an informed vendor to an informed purchaser. The ship's officers would then not have to say to them, "I'm sorry that you unexpectedly won't be able to sleep on the cruise you looked forward to so eagerly, but there's nothing we can do; please accept a glass/bottle/case of champagne as compensation" and could instead politely remind any passenger who nevertheless complains that they voluntarily chose an "activity cabin."

I would not include engine and anchor noise cabins because those are nautical sounds to which many passengers would not object; I rather like them myself.

Since purchasers of guarantees of cabins in the other categories would be freed of the risk of a sleepless cruise, perhaps the price of their cabins could be increased just slightly to make up part or all of the reduction in revenue from the "activity cabins" and since there would be fewer offended passengers, who might never book again, any revenue effects should be minor.

[IRL_Joanie]

I will email you the pictures (and some videos maybe if I can ever figure out how to load them) after our cruise, we take lots of pictures. Will be taking them over all the ship as my mum wants to see all the ship.

My hubby says he doesn't snore that bad, has been saying that for 14 years yet he sounds like a train/jackhammer also. I never though of videoing his snoring, I'm so going to try that tonight. I am going to google the sleep mate machine now, never heard of this and it sounds wonderful. I love my hubby very much, its only his snoring that drives me nuts Happy to hear you have survived the snoring through 40+ years of marriage!!

I have about 15 videos I took with my cell phone back in November. IF I can remember to go to the VeriZen Store and have them show me (or better yet, do it for me) how to email them to myself, I will upload them to the NA Pages.

Here is the best Sleep Mate we have ever bought!! It is lightweight and portable, easy for packing and fantastic: http://www.white-noise.us/conditioner600.htm We use it with just the pure white noise setting:)

Joanie

[sapper1]

I believe we had the same closet space in VD cabins on the Eurodam compared to others verandah cabins.
Yes, you are right---we were in a V something level on the Oosterdam and the door was not in the closet area now that I think of it. On our recent Nieuw Amsterdam cruise we were in an SS suite and that is where we lost the closet as the door was just inside the cabin where the closet door would have been. On the other hand there was a storage space created.

[Globaliser]

... I would take the suggestion of a couple of posters on this thread and ask management why they couldn't designate the cabins with known overhead noise problems as "activity cabins", or something neutral-sounding like that ...If you call them something like "activity cabins", you might possibly achieve a higher yield for them.

Maybe depends on the demographic of the cruise line, though ...

;)

[Lesinindy]

I have about 15 videos I took with my cell phone back in November. IF I can remember to go to the VeriZen Store and have them show me (or better yet, do it for me) how to email them to myself, I will upload them to the NA Pages.

Here is the best Sleep Mate we have ever bought!! It is lightweight and portable, easy for packing and fantastic: http://www.white-noise.us/conditioner600.htm We use it with just the pure white noise setting:)

Joanie
I read the part about snoring and thought of my DW and ordered the Sleep Mate 980 on amazon. Poor thing ends up on the couch some nights. Also it might help when we make our office move. We will be moving to Cubies and I do advising of university students, it would be nice to be able to cover conversations.

[edmusic]

Jimmy2x wrote: It is called Buyers beware and also RESEARCH before you buy:) No Research, no belly aching afterwards.So, I assume you would apply this 'rule' to all business transactions: they don't have to tell you at Best Buy that the TV you are buying has a blurry corner of the picture screen; the new car you are buying has a tendency for the steering wheel to lock up when you hit 55mph; the meat at the butcher counter was supposed to have been sold by now and is potentially bad.
Buyer Beware, right?

[kazu]

If I were to unexpectedly inherit a cruise line from a distant relative of whose existence I had previously been unaware, I would take the suggestion of a couple of posters on this thread and ask management why they couldn't designate the cabins with known overhead noise problems as "activity cabins", or something neutral-sounding like that, and give them an appropriate category letter like obstructed view cabins.

Then instead of surprising unsuspecting passengers with a known noise problem cabin, the product could be sold by an informed vendor to an informed purchaser. The ship's officers would then not have to say to them, "I'm sorry that you unexpectedly won't be able to sleep on the cruise you looked forward to so eagerly, but there's nothing we can do; please accept a glass/bottle/case of champagne as compensation" and could instead politely remind any passenger who nevertheless complains that they voluntarily chose an "activity cabin."

I would not include engine and anchor noise cabins because those are nautical sounds to which many passengers would not object; I rather like them myself.

Since purchasers of guarantees of cabins in the other categories would be freed of the risk of a sleepless cruise, perhaps the price of their cabins could be increased just slightly to make up part or all of the reduction in revenue from the "activity cabins" and since there would be fewer offended passengers, who might never book again, any revenue effects should be minor.

This is a great idea. However 'nautical' noises bother some people as much as 'activity' cabins. You can't everyone happy all the time IMO

You have to figure out what works for you and unfortunately, that can take a cruise or two or a cabin crawl, a very good TA or discussing pros and cons or these boards;)

It's tough on new cruisers - they don't know what will bother them. Aft cabins bother dh although I love them, so they are off our list for now (I might try again;)) Just an example

[IRL_Joanie]

Jimmy2x wrote: So, I assume you would apply this 'rule' to all business transactions: they don't have to tell you at Best Buy that the TV you are buying has a blurry corner of the picture screen; the new car you are buying has a tendency for the steering wheel to lock up when you hit 55mph; the meat at the butcher counter was supposed to have been sold by now and is potentially bad.
Buyer Beware, right?

I have no idea why you feel the need to "pick on" my statement alone, other than it might have hit a sore spot:confused: But I can still answer clearly and succinctly as follows:

I would NEVER think of buying anything anywhere, a TV at Best Buy included, without doing research first! First stop is Consumer Reports, then an online search via Google for TV Name, Model Number etc., Then I do Reviews for the same item BEFORE even going to Best Buy or any other store to purchase said TV.

Same goes for Cars, Cruises, etc., etc. I do not buy what I do not research for flaws, problems, good points, bad points, etc.

I do not book a stateroom without researching here on Cruise Critic first.

So yes, Buyer Beware:)

Research is the key my friend:)

By The Way, do you not find it strange that the OP did not do his research well enough before his cruise, but was able to find Cruise Critic fast enough to come here and complain afterwards?? Just wondering....

Joanie

[kazu]

Jimmy2x wrote: So, I assume you would apply this 'rule' to all business transactions: they don't have to tell you at Best Buy that the TV you are buying has a blurry corner of the picture screen; the new car you are buying has a tendency for the steering wheel to lock up when you hit 55mph; the meat at the butcher counter was supposed to have been sold by now and is potentially bad.
Buyer Beware, right?

yes, i do - I research any purchase I am about to make. I do consumer's reports, internet whatever. I don't make any purchase lightly and my vacation is no different. and yes, I check expiry dates - when the meat was packaged or ask:) I think it's called being an educated consumer:confused:

[jimmy2x]

Jimmy2x wrote: So, I assume you would apply this 'rule' to all business transactions: they don't have to tell you at Best Buy that the TV you are buying has a blurry corner of the picture screen; the new car you are buying has a tendency for the steering wheel to lock up when you hit 55mph; the meat at the butcher counter was supposed to have been sold by now and is potentially bad.
Buyer Beware, right?

Well - it was Joanie's line, not mine;). However, yes that is exactly what I meant (within any reasonable limits). There are no guarantees in life, but you can try to reduce the risks when spending a lot of money.

Believe me, when it is time to buy a new car, I've already spent months doing research before stepping foot in the showroom.

[Boby]

I mentioned in my many posts this was our 1st cruise. I did go on Cruise Critic to see the reviews of the ship of course. This was a spur of the moment Christmas gift for my husband who had been bugging me to go on a cruise for 15 years. Again, I did not know you have to be careful about room placement - Again I do now! My God, some of you are so judgmental.....this is my experience. Get behind a keyboard and somehow you are all above reproach! I only pray that none of you ever experience the same. But of course, that's not possible because somehow you are all above doing what I did even if you were a novice.
Wow, what a group!

Goodbye and enjoy your many cruises

[vbmom87]

Jimmy2x wrote: So, I assume you would apply this 'rule' to all business transactions: they don't have to tell you at Best Buy that the TV you are buying has a blurry corner of the picture screen; the new car you are buying has a tendency for the steering wheel to lock up when you hit 55mph; the meat at the butcher counter was supposed to have been sold by now and is potentially bad.
Buyer Beware, right?

Yes, as a consumer it is the buyer's responsibility to research. I would never buy a TV or car without doing my research first. Heck even for small $10 items I will check if amazon carries it and read the reviews. Many years ago, prior to the internet I got burned on a new kitchen floor following the salesman's recommendation. Found out later there was a promotion by the company and he got more commission on that floor that month. I hated the floor!!!! Since then I do research virtually everything I buy.

I do feel sorry for the OP. It must have been horrible to have all the noise above you when you are trying to sleep. However, I still say the TA was selling the cruise and as a TA should be educated in the deck plans and be able to suggest a good cabin for their clients and fully explain the problems that could result with a guarentee. I can't tell you how many posts I have read where the cruisers had no idea what a guarentee meant. The cruiselines, at least to my knowledge, do not do anything to hide the fact that some rooms can be noisy. Any good TA will know this. It is up to the TA to provide the knowledge to their clients.

[grandmaR]

I do think the OP is being picked upon. I have been looking at the Cruise Critics room reviews. BOY are they hard to find. I know I wrote one, so I kept looking but had I not known that, I would never have stumbled across it by accident.

Personally my POV is that I am going to have fun. Whatever that takes. I may complain about stuff that the cruise line does, but I will go on having fun and just try to avoid that the next time.

My main complaint about cruise ships in general is that they are too big and have too many people on them. There's not much I can do about that except try to avoid the larger ships and have a scooter or wheelchair to help me get around. I had to walk the length of a Celebrity ship and the length of our HAL ship in Juneau, and I had to stop to get my breath several times. I have a cane that I can sit on, but still. (When I got back I found that I had pneumonia.)

And my other complaint about HAL in particular is that the office people (both on the ship and on the shore) are not very efficient and not very willing to fix things that are wrong. In addition to the unwanted upgrade problem, I made a reservation for the next cruise on the cruise I was on, and instead of using the travel agent that booked the cruise I was taking, they went back three cruises previous and gave the cruise to a travel agent that I quit using because I did not like the service. When I phoned to have it fixed, the agent hung up on me. I had to try three times before I found someone that would fix it. It took me even longer to get them to change my name from my maiden name to my married name. I would tell them and they would say it was fixed, and it was not.

But I DO like HAL - actually they are my favorite cruise line, with Celebrity and NCL next and RCI at the bottom of the list. And I keep on cruising.

[vbmom87]

And my other complaint about HAL in particular is that the office people (both on the ship and on the shore) are not very efficient and not very willing to fix things that are wrong.

But I DO like HAL - actually they are my favorite cruise line, with Celebrity and NCL next and RCI at the bottom of the list. And I keep on cruising.

Yup, inefficient is an accurate description for the customer service staff on and off the ship. However, for what it is worth, I have found the same complaints on the other cruiseline forums. I think they are all staffed with low paid help. These people come and go and never really learn their jobs. They quit well before they become knowledable about the product they are selling. It is a shame, but the reality is you are dealing with people who often know less than you do.

[grandmaR]

Yup, inefficient is an accurate description for the customer service staff on and off the ship. However, for what it is worth, I have found the same complaints on the other cruiseline forums. I think they are all staffed with low paid help. These people come and go and never really learn their jobs. They quit well before they become knowledable about the product they are selling. It is a shame, but the reality is you are dealing with people who often know less than you do.

I do not know about other cruise lines land office people - my travel agent deals with them now. But the desk people even at RCI while they weren't that knowledgeable were at least NICE, and willing to think that I might be right about what I was complaining about instead of just dismissing me.

The desk people at HAL when we complained about the sewage smell said
a) no one else has complained (which wasn't true - we talked to the other people on the corridor and they had ALL complained). We all went back and complained again.
b) Said the cabin steward hadn't said anything. So Bob took the girl from the desk down to the hall so she could smell for herself
c) Said the engineers were looking into it (the fallback default position) because Bob is an engineer and he figured out what was causing the problem and he knew it would take structural modification.

Some of the people got a big rebate - up to half their cruise. They were more aggressive I guess, because we didn't get anything.

[vbmom87]

The desk people at HAL when we complained about the sewage smell said
a) no one else has complained (which wasn't true - we talked to the other people on the corridor and they had ALL complained). We all went back and complained again.

b) Said the cabin steward hadn't said anything. So Bob took the girl from the desk down to the hall so she could smell for herself

c) Said the engineers were looking into it (the fallback default position) because Bob is an engineer and he figured out what was causing the problem and he knew it would take structural modification.

Some of the people got a big rebate - up to half their cruise. They were more aggressive I guess, because we didn't get anything.

Was this on the Amsterdam this past May? If so, what deck(s)/Cabins had this sewage odor?

[TiogaCruiser]

I pulled my copy of volendam's galley (sister to Zaandam and similar to Amsterdam). The lettering for the areas is very hard to read as it is a copy of a copy of a copy. The gallery occupies the entire section of the ship- port to starboard, and anyone who has been to her lower level diningroom realizes quickly you have to go down or up a floor to get to the lower diningroom.

However, looking at the deckplan in the HAL cruise catalog from last year, the only place that says " galley" on the deck plan for volendam/zaandam is on the port side. The starboard side is void of any designation. The starboard galley could easily be taken for offices or meeting rooms, or crew area.

OP's cabin was within 4 doors of the HH we turned down. We turned it down because we had the galley tour map, and saw the galley was above it. The HAL rep was telling me and my TA the galley was on the other side of the ship!

~TC

[ON cruiser]

I read the HAL board rarely these days (I do read the ship reviews which are on the main CC board) and post infrequently because in part of the type of responses that are often given to people with a legitimate criticism of HAL. While I like HAL, I am not of the view that it, or any company, is above reproach. There is room for improvement in all things.

The OP (Boby) made it clear in her last post above that she will not be back--too bad, as she may have had useful points to make (I think she did, anyway) and this board will become ever more insular if new folks are chased away, instead of welcomed. One may not agree with a point of view but that does not make the point of view any less valid.

[ironin]

I read the HAL board rarely these days (I do read the ship reviews which are on the main CC board) and post infrequently because in part of the type of responses that are often given to people with a legitimate criticism of HAL. While I like HAL, I am not of the view that it, or any company, is above reproach. There is room for improvement in all things.

The OP (Boby) made it clear in her last post above that she will not be back--too bad, as she may have had useful points to make (I think she did, anyway) and this board will become ever more insular if new folks are chased away, instead of welcomed. One may not agree with a point of view but that does not make the point of view any less valid.

In my experience on the internet, fair or not, the tone of the initial post is a major determinant in the direction of the thread. At almost the same time this thread was published, another similar thread was published. (See here (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1429016)) There is far less heat and hyperbole from "either side" on the other thread. I agree that there is no reason for being disagreeable while disagreeing. In most cases, too, one point of view is no less valid than another, but not always.

As you say you rarely read these boards, and it sounds like you focus on the occasional contentious one when you do, I'm not sure that your characterization is accurate. I'm a relative "newbie" as are many others currently participating. We've all been "flamed" in one way or another, although nowhere near as scorching as can happen on other less well-monitored sites. Like you, I was sorry to read the OP's permanent departure announcement. Unlike you, I think the OP's inflammatory initial post above generated a mildly interesting yet predictably heated discussion in response.

[kazu]

In my experience on the internet, fair or not, the tone of the initial post is a major determinant in the direction of the thread. At almost the same time this thread was published, another similar thread was published. (See here (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1429016)) There is far less heat and hyperbole from "either side" on the other thread. I agree that there is no reason for being disagreeable while disagreeing. In most cases, too, one point of view is no less valid than another, but not always.

As you say you rarely read these boards, and it sounds like you focus on the occasional contentious one when you do, I'm not sure that your characterization is accurate. I'm a relative "newbie" as are many others currently participating. We've all been "flamed" in one way or another, although nowhere near as scorching as can happen on other less well-monitored sites. Like you, I was sorry to read the OP's permanent departure announcement. Unlike you, I think the OP's inflammatory initial post above generated a mildly interesting yet predictably heated discussion in response.

Ironin makes some good points. We have all been 'flamed' at one point.

Here's the strange thing - op didn't research the cabin before sailing, but since sailing - has found cruise critic - has found the reviews - and comes on to complain. Whether I book through a TA or not, I research my own cabin.

The problem was all the blame went on HAL IMO and not on the TA who should have helped much better for a first time cruiser IMO.

If I have questions, I ask. Yes, I probably drive people crazy with some questions, but I would rather ask than be sorry i didn't;)

[grandmaR]

Was this on the Amsterdam this past May? If so, what deck(s)/Cabins had this sewage odor?

This was on the Statendam on a cruise that went from Fort Lauderdale through the Canal to Lima Peru and back (28 days). The cabins were aft of the aft elevators on the Lower Promenade Deck. The smell was mostly when we were in port and depended on the wind direction. You can see if you go up to the Lido Deck (or the one above that - don't remember for sure it is the top deck outside) where the stacks exhaust and where the fresh air intake is. There just is not enough separation in linear distance or in height. This is a design flaw which is intermittent because it depends on the wind. When the ship is underway, usually the fresh air intake is upwind of the exhaust so there is no problem.

[Arwen]

Hello,

I never asked for an upgrade and was never told over the phone that I could receive one - Remember - 1st cruise!! I have done a lot of traveling and there is no way in the world that it is acceptable putting passengers under a noisy galley. One would never put up with this in hotel, why would you at sea. The cruise line cannot control many things I'm sure regarding noise, but they can surely control where they put passengers to sleep knowing full well that they will be unhappy and not able to sleep. Disgusting! That is not good service by any stretch of the imagination.



Boby, I can empathize with you. How could you possibly know when it was your first cruise? An upgrade, on the face of it, sounds like a good deal. As the rest of us know, and now you, too....is that that isn't always the case.

My husband and I were on our 6th HAL cruise and had picked out our cabin making sure to check the deck plan, etc. It was a two week cruise around New Zealand with two stops in Australia. For the first four nights my husband and I could not sleep. Early in the morning, we could hear a high pitched screeching sound that was loud enough to wake the dead. We had our earplugs, but that did not solve the problem.

I politely explained the situation to the Front Desk and was told there was nothing they could do as the ship was full. However, I knew that I would not remain on that ship if I was not able to get decent sleep for 14 nights, either! I even threatened my husband that if we could not get the situation resolved, that I wanted off at the next port of call.

I continued to complain to the front desk, but what worked is that I called them on the fourth morning (4:00 a.m.) when the screeching started up. I said to send some engineers...there is something wrong. Two guys in white mechanic jumpsuits showed up....listened, didn't say a word and then left.

The next morning after getting back from a shore excursion, a message was left that they had "found" a new cabin and would help us move.

To this day, I don't know what that unworldly sound was....but the engineers apparently knew and they weren't about to tell us. We were given a cabin on the same deck and it was blissfully quiet.

A cruiser has to go through such an experience to know how it CAN totally ruin a vacation. It almost did for us.:(

[sapper1]

Boby, I can empathize with you. How could you possibly know when it was your first cruise? An upgrade, on the face of it, sounds like a good deal. As the rest of us know, and now you, too....is that that isn't always the case.

My husband and I were on our 6th HAL cruise and had picked out our cabin making sure to check the deck plan, etc. It was a two week cruise around New Zealand with two stops in Australia. For the first four nights my husband and I could not sleep. Early in the morning, we could hear a high pitched screeching sound that was loud enough to wake the dead. We had our earplugs, but that did not solve the problem.

I politely explained the situation to the Front Desk and was told there was nothing they could do as the ship was full. However, I knew that I would not remain on that ship if I was not able to get decent sleep for 14 nights, either! I even threatened my husband that if we could not get the situation resolved, that I wanted off at the next port of call.

I continued to complain to the front desk, but what worked is that I called them on the fourth morning (4:00 a.m.) when the screeching started up. I said to send some engineers...there is something wrong. Two guys in white mechanic jumpsuits showed up....listened, didn't say a word and then left.

The next morning after getting back from a shore excursion, a message was left that they had "found" a new cabin and would help us move.

To this day, I don't know what that unworldly sound was....but the engineers apparently knew and they weren't about to tell us. We were given a cabin on the same deck and it was blissfully quiet.

A cruiser has to go through such an experience to know how it CAN totally ruin a vacation. It almost did for us.:(

The difference is that you related your experience in a calm, rational, factual manner without resorting to ranting. Your account comes across very well and I doubt very much if anyone would flame you for the manner in which you told your story. It was good to see that it had a happy ending and that you could go on to enjoy your cruise. It must have been a very upsetting few nights.

[edmusic]

IRL Joanie wrote: I have no idea why you feel the need to "pick on" my statement alone, other than it might have hit a sore spot:confused: But I can still answer clearly and succinctly as follows:
I would NEVER think of buying anything anywhere, a TV at Best Buy included, without doing research first! First stop is Consumer Reports, then an online search via Google for TV Name, Model Number etc., Then I do Reviews for the same item BEFORE even going to Best Buy or any other store to purchase said TV. Same goes for Cars, Cruises, etc., etc. I do not buy what I do not research for flaws, problems, good points, bad points, etc. I do not book a stateroom without researching here on Cruise Critic first. So yes, Buyer Beware:)
Research is the key my friend:) By The Way, do you not find it strange that the OP did not do his research well enough before his cruise, but was able to find Cruise Critic fast enough to come here and complain afterwards?? Just wondering....Joanie - I'm not picking on you; this board is about exchanging ideas, opinions, and advice in a controlled, professional manner and that is what I am trying to do. I guess the bottom line for me is this: When a customer looks at these big, glorious, floating resorts that boast of elegance, luxury, and pride; they assume they are buying a quality product void of defects and that is exactly how it is presented in the sales brochure. I believe it is only fair that a cruise line which knowingly has defective or flawed rooms (and by all accounts I've read here on CC, the cruise lines know they have 'problem' rooms) that they disclose that before the consumer makes the purchase. Out here in CA, when you sell your house, you have to disclose any and all defects that you are aware of - broken electrical outlets, leaking pipes, etc., to the prospective buyer. You don't have to fix them, only disclose them. I feel the cruise ships should do the same thing so that the assuming cruise customer is aware of what they are buying before they commit. That's all.

[Boytjie]

Out here in CA, when you sell your house, you have to disclose any and all defects that you are aware of - broken electrical outlets, leaking pipes, etc., to the prospective buyer. You don't have to fix them, only disclose them. I feel the cruise ships should do the same thing so that the assuming cruise customer is aware of what they are buying before they commit. That's all.

Do you have to disclose that it is a noisy neighborhood? Or that the neighbors act badly at times?

Hotels have noisy rooms too - near the ice machine, elevators, a/c units etc.

Noise does not make a room or cabin defective.

[BruceMuzz]

Typically 50% of the posts on the cruise boards are about saving money, cutting costs, smuggling alcohol, removing tips, and generally avoiding paying for just about anything.

Rarely do cruisers ask where/how to find the best or most expensive products.
But everyone seems to want to get the cheapest ones.
If you look at the usually heated discussions, the argument quite often is that many cruisers are willing to settle for less in order to cruise more often.

So the cruise lines try to keep them happy with cheap guarantee cabin schemes, tiny cramped inside cabins, very low category cabins, obstructed view cabins, etc. Those cabins are always fully booked, by the way. If they were so undesirable, wouldn't word get out that they shoudl be avoided?

Do the cruise lines ever warn you that the cabins located directly above the engine room will experience vibration and additional noise? Never.
Do they warn you that cabins located in the bow will suffer from thruster and anchor chain noises? Never.
Do they tell you that cabins located below the buffet, galley, gymnasium, disco, pool, show lounge, or late night bars will have additional noise problems? Never.

The airlines do the same thing. They have "economy" seats that are far too small for the average American to fit into.
Have you seen any warnings from the airlines that the economy seat you purchased may be too small, cramped, in a noisy area, and next to the toilets? It never happens.
Do the airlines warn you that seats in the tail section will suffer from much more movement - especially when the plane encounters turbulence? Never.
Do the airlines warn you that seats located aft of the jet engines will have much higher noise levels? Never.
Do the airlines ever warn you that those sitting in the back rows get served last and frequently don;t get the meal choice they wanted? Never happens.

These cruise line and airline companies make 3 assumptions:
1. People are smart enough to do their homework before traveling.
2. People know that if the price of something seems too good to be true - it is too good to be true.
3. If people are naive enough to fall for incredibly cheap fares, they either don't care, or are too naive to know the difference.

[maxout]

BruceMuzz

Well said! :D

[edmusic]

I see I am in the very small minority here, so this will be my last post on the subject. Enjoy!

[IRL_Joanie]

BruceMuzz

Well said! :D

Ditto!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Joanie

[gregdude]

Bruce Muzz, right on. It's like buying a VW Beatle, one will be bumpy with a lot more noise, but costs a lot less, you made the decision.

[vbmom87]

Do the cruise lines ever warn you that the cabins located directly above the engine room will experience vibration and additional noise? Never.

Do they warn you that cabins located in the bow will suffer from thruster and anchor chain noises? Never.

Do they tell you that cabins located below the buffet, galley, gymnasium, disco, pool, show lounge, or late night bars will have additional noise problems? Never.
.

The cruiseline does not list these "flawed cabins" on their website, but if you have a good TA, they will guide you to a cabin that meets your requirements. No one is trying to hide the fact that some rooms will be noisy or less desirable than others. Key is getting a good TA who will help you find that perfect cabin for you. I really get annoyed with the TAs who book their clients into guarentees and don't explain what it means. I do feel very sorry for those who are new to cruising and put all their trust in a TA, only to be disappointed. I was lucky to find this site well before I booked and I did learn a lot. Not everyone is so lucky.

[swin26]

Will I have a problem in 1104 on the Eurodam? I like being near the steps and elevator, but am concerned about the white space above this cabin.

[grandmaR]

The cruiseline does not list these "flawed cabins" on their website, but if you have a good TA, they will guide you to a cabin that meets your requirements. No one is trying to hide the fact that some rooms will be noisy or less desirable than others. Key is getting a good TA who will help you find that perfect cabin for you. I really get annoyed with the TAs who book their clients into guarentees and don't explain what it means. I do feel very sorry for those who are new to cruising and put all their trust in a TA, only to be disappointed. I was lucky to find this site well before I booked and I did learn a lot. Not everyone is so lucky.

I have had a room under the gym and there was no problem. I've also had rooms under the MDR and under the theatre - also no problem.

The guarantee cabins are a very very small percentage of the total available cabins. So much so that the cruise lines cannot possibly put all the guarantee people into guarantee cabins. The people that book them usually hope for an upgrade to a better cabin. I don't know how the cruise line decides which ones get the upgrades.

I do book guarentees sometimes and if the cabin that I get isn't that great - oh well. I didn't pay that much for it. I have only paid for an upgrade once that I can remember.

[SF Cfan]

Hello,

We didn't book it. We went through an agency where you are assigned a room. We originally had a room on the Dolphin deck below which would have been very quiet. This was an upgrade Holland America gave us without our asking. Now, I will only book through the line itself and choose my room. I would rather pay more, be happy and sleep well! Our first cruise - had no idea!! :confused:

The same thing happened to me last year on my Oosterdam cruise to Alaska. I booked and a specific obstruced view cabin with a floor to ceiling window, because I had enjoyed the same on Eurodam. HAL then upgraded me to a cabin below the galley.

I realize that preferences are subjective. But, I felt downgraded and let down. Sure, buyer beware. If I cruise HAL in the future I'll select do-not-upgrade. Being moved down and forward based from a cabin that was higher and closer to mid-ships just did not seem like a fair trade to me given the noise factor.

[vbmom87]

I realize that preferences are subjective. But, I felt downgraded and let down. Sure, buyer beware. If I cruise HAL in the future I'll select do-not-upgrade. Being moved down and forward based from a cabin that was higher and closer to mid-ships just did not seem like a fair trade to me given the noise factor.

A good TA should have been able to help you out. My first cruise I went with a guarentee, and was assigned an "upgraded' cabin. However, both my TA and I did not feel it was an upgrade. She had to jump through some hoops, but she got us a better cabin.

In your case, it must have been very disappointing to have done your research on a cabin, only to find you were given another one. That really is the fault of your TA. They should have asked you about checking the "do not upgrade" box. All the more reason they should have worked to get you a better cabin after HAL upgraded you to an inferior one.

[Storylady]

In my experience on the internet, fair or not, the tone of the initial post is a major determinant in the direction of the thread. At almost the same time this thread was published, another similar thread was published. (See here (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1429016)) There is far less heat and hyperbole from "either side" on the other thread. I agree that there is no reason for being disagreeable while disagreeing. In most cases, too, one point of view is no less valid than another, but not always.

As you say you rarely read these boards, and it sounds like you focus on the occasional contentious one when you do, I'm not sure that your characterization is accurate. I'm a relative "newbie" as are many others currently participating. We've all been "flamed" in one way or another, although nowhere near as scorching as can happen on other less well-monitored sites. Like you, I was sorry to read the OP's permanent departure announcement. Unlike you, I think the OP's inflammatory initial post above generated a mildly interesting yet predictably heated discussion in response.

I agree with you that it was probably the title of the post that caused HAL defenders to come back so strongly. Which is really too bad. A thread on cabin location would have been a good thing.

I'm a light sleeper and have so far been mostly lucky that I haven't had my sleep disturbed by noise from the galley all night long. But it can happen on other cruise ship companies besides HAL and even in hotels.

I had an especially bad experience in a very expensive hotel. I didn't pay double to have the waterfront view and got the squeaky air conditioner from the roof top of the hotel. Fortunately, we only stayed two nights not a whole week or longer. They did move us, but it was almost as bad.

I would like to thank those who did give examples of good and bad locations. Even us experienced cruisers can learn something.

I have some good cabins booked for my next cruise and I'm going to tell my TA---no upgrades. Looking at the deck plans, I know that I could end up in a worse location than I am now for a supposely better cabin. Lack of sleep is not worth the upgrade.

[SF Cfan]

A good TA should have been able to help you out. My first cruise I went with a guarentee, and was assigned an "upgraded' cabin. However, both my TA and I did not feel it was an upgrade. She had to jump through some hoops, but she got us a better cabin.

In your case, it must have been very disappointing to have done your research on a cabin, only to find you were given another one. That really is the fault of your TA. They should have asked you about checking the "do not upgrade" box. All the more reason they should have worked to get you a better cabin after HAL upgraded you to an inferior one.

You are right on. Sadly my TA was not on the ball. I actually booked my last cruise directly with the cruise line (Carnival) and was happy with the results.

[SantaAna,CA]

I am a very light sleeper. I really sympathize with everyone who ended up in a noisy cabin that made their cruise miserable. How disappointing is that!

I'm not trying to be funny or promote anything...but I just found these great earplugs (I've been searching for years for ones that really work) and, *lol* in reading this thread I thought, I have to share this discovery! They even helped me during an MRI; those machines sound like you are being run over by a freight train.

Anyway, here's where I found them....hope they can help someone else.

Jane

http://www.earplugsonline.com/

[world~citizen]

15 HAL cruises all as guarantees and we haven't had a bad cabin yet.

That is how we get our cabins and never regretted it (yet).:)

Smooth sailing...

[drcpa]

And it's amazing how hostile and unsympathetic most of the replies are.
All these hip, knowing, experienced well traveled cruisers placing total unrelenting, unforgiving blame on the OP.
This seems to be the knee jerk reaction on this site from the HAL apologists regarding any critique of Mother Holland America.
Toilet overflowing. Some fool flushed the wrong thing.
AC not working. Some fool left his verandah door open.
Noisy, unacceptable room. Some fool didn't do his homework.
Fools don't realize that if "I" was on that ship 10 years ago and didn't have the same problem then that problem doesn't exist.
Don't memorize deck plans, trusted your TA, took an upgrade. Fool.
Unknowingly booked a cabin in good faith, perhaps under the galley. Fool
Smoke bother you, didn't realize that HAL has a nontraditional, liberal smoking policy? Fool!!
Fools don't buy the argument propagated on this board that ships are old, noisy, complex machines floating in the middle of the ocean where you should expect things to age, break, and wear.
Can't sleep, vacation ruined. Complaining fool.
Purchased a vacation cruise without hours of research. Lazy Fool
Fools don't realize that lack of high quality is the HAL business model to keep prices competitive so the smart ones can keep cruising.
And only a fool doesn't realize that the real purpose of this board is for people with 20,000 posts to tell people with 30,000 posts how clever and funny they are.

[world~citizen]

...And only a fool doesn't realize that the real purpose of this board is for people with 20,000 posts to tell people with 30,000 posts how clever and funny they are.

Much wisdom. To that I would add pious.

Smooth sailing

[paulista1950]

And it's amazing how hostile and unsympathetic most of the replies are.
All these hip, knowing, experienced well traveled cruisers placing total unrelenting, unforgiving blame on the OP.
This seems to be the knee jerk reaction on this site from the HAL apologists regarding any critique of Mother Holland America.
Toilet overflowing. Some fool flushed the wrong thing.
AC not working. Some fool left his verandah door open.
Noisy, unacceptable room. Some fool didn't do his homework.
Fools don't realize that if "I" was on that ship 10 years ago and didn't have the same problem then that problem doesn't exist.
Don't memorize deck plans, trusted your TA, took an upgrade. Fool.
Unknowingly booked a cabin in good faith, perhaps under the galley. Fool
Smoke bother you, didn't realize that HAL has a nontraditional, liberal smoking policy? Fool!!
Fools don't buy the argument propagated on this board that ships are old, noisy, complex machines floating in the middle of the ocean where you should expect things to age, break, and wear.
Can't sleep, vacation ruined. Complaining fool.
Purchased a vacation cruise without hours of research. Lazy Fool
Fools don't realize that lack of high quality is the HAL business model to keep prices competitive so the smart ones can keep cruising.
And only a fool doesn't realize that the real purpose of this board is for people with 20,000 posts to tell people with 30,000 posts how clever and funny they are.

Since I'm still going to cruise with HAL for the first time, I can't say anything about the company and/or it's ships, but I'm amazed on how ANY critic here is taken personally by many people.:eek:

[world~citizen]

BruceMuzz:

Typically 50% of the posts on the cruise boards are about saving money, cutting costs, smuggling alcohol, removing tips, and generally avoiding paying for just about anything.

I don't know what the break down is. But don't cruise corporations try to increase revenue and get pax to pay for just about everything?

Rarely do cruisers ask where/how to find the best or most expensive products.
But everyone seems to want to get the cheapest ones.
If you look at the usually heated discussions, the argument quite often is that many cruisers are willing to settle for less in order to cruise more often.

Is that true? The most heated discussions that I have seen involved flooding, odours, smoking, formal nights, but honestly I haven't seen what you describe.

So the cruise lines try to keep them happy with cheap guarantee cabin schemes, tiny cramped inside cabins, very low category cabins, obstructed view cabins, etc. Those cabins are always fully booked, by the way. If they were so undesirable, wouldn't word get out that they shoudl be avoided?

Actually posts I have seen here speak highly of the value of inside cabins and guarantee fares.

Do the cruise lines ever warn you that the cabins located directly above the engine room will experience vibration and additional noise? Never.
Do they warn you that cabins located in the bow will suffer from thruster and anchor chain noises? Never.
Do they tell you that cabins located below the buffet, galley, gymnasium, disco, pool, show lounge, or late night bars will have additional noise problems? Never.

Well, they do complain about that - I mean if the quiet enjoyment of their cabin is severely compromised.

The airlines do the same thing. They have "economy" seats that are far too small for the average American to fit into.
Have you seen any warnings from the airlines that the economy seat you purchased may be too small, cramped, in a noisy area, and next to the toilets? It never happens.
Do the airlines warn you that seats in the tail section will suffer from much more movement - especially when the plane encounters turbulence? Never.
Do the airlines warn you that seats located aft of the jet engines will have much higher noise levels? Never.
Do the airlines ever warn you that those sitting in the back rows get served last and frequently don;t get the meal choice they wanted? Never happens.

So what?

These cruise line and airline companies make 3 assumptions:
1. People are smart enough to do their homework before traveling.
2. People know that if the price of something seems too good to be true - it is too good to be true.
3. If people are naive enough to fall for incredibly cheap fares, they either don't care, or are too naive to know the difference.

You paint a picture of cruise companies being at war with pax.

I don't see the point of your post.

[centuryguy]

Someone on their first cruise has no idea what to avoid, nor are they aware of the least desirable ship locations. They don't have any idea that they need to do a little research before booking a specific cabin. They probably have no idea what to ask or even what they need to know. That should be the TA's job.

After a little cruising experience I've come up with a set of criteria that I use when selecting a cabin. It costs a little more and may seem a little picky, but it works:

I don't book guarantees. I choose the cabin and mark it no upgrade. To me location is everything. HAL could upgrade me to a suite, but if it's in a bad location, well that's not an upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

I want to be at least two decks away from any public areas of the ship, both above and below my cabin. For example, the Upper Verandah deck VB category meets the requirement on the Eurodam.

Crew closets, work areas etc., must be at least 3 cabins away from mine.

There must be at least a 3 cabin buffer between stairs and elevators.

I avoid booking a cabin anywhere near white space areas on the deck plan.

I ask specific questions about what's around my cabin choice. I tell the cruise rep specifically that all I want around my cabin (above and below, left and right, front and back) are other cabins. Unless it's a verandah, then that will obviously back up to the ocean. :)

I no longer leave planning my cruise to a TA, I do it myself directly with the cruise line.

The key is experience. It's a shame that the OP's first cruise was in a crappy cabin. Unfortunately HAL has probably lost a customer for life now. I speculate that HAL would still have people willing to book cabins in less than desirable areas even if they issued a disclaimer of sorts beforehand.

[Megsie1000]

One books a cruise (having done research or not) with a reasonable expectation that they will have a room they can sleep in. Those cabins need to be designed better or not sold at all. Either that or HAL needs to expect that people who end up in them will not return.

This argument that we have to fill the ship or the prices will go up for everybody is ridiculous. If there is a truly miserable cabin, how is that up to HAL standards? It shouldn't be sold. Don't put the onus on the customer. That's ludicrous!

[Gaucho39]

His point is telling it like it is, as an insider in the business.

99 out of 100 posts on this board have no point, why single out
Brucemuzz

[Jade13]

Typically 50% of the posts on the cruise boards are about saving money, cutting costs, smuggling alcohol, removing tips, and generally avoiding paying for just about anything.




I guess I never realized that.

[debsjc]

Everyone is going to have different opinions, which is healthy.

I know a lot of people won't agree but I feel if the cabin is that noisy HAL should not sell them. Personally I would rather pay a few more dollars, and not have anyone have an unhappy cruise in that area.

For me an airline seat is different. I fly a lot and the difference in the area of the aircraft you sit does not make a great difference. Plus a flight is for 12 hours, a cruise might be for several weeks.

[fcorey]

This has been a really interesting thread to read. As for the rooms under galleys, clubs, etc. I look at this as I did prior to our second cruise. On our first trip I didnt know what to expect. We learned allot, mostly that my wife likes balcony rooms and isnt partial to Carnival. For me the best thing about CC was researching thing prior to booking or at least prior to final payment so you can make changes.
With airlines you have a way to research, try seatguru.com. But its common sense that the lower in the ship you are, the more vibration or noise you may have. Those rooms are priced accordingly.
The closest comparison is hotels with "bad" rooms. A cruise ship is really a seagoing hotel afterall. The problems only get really bad when they are fully booked. If someone is in a room that is affected by an issue that they cannot fix and the passenger is courteous to staff when they complain, there is the likelihood that they may get moved. But if the ship is at full occupancy there is no such option and they have one very unhappy passenger on their hands.
This is not a HAL issue, all ships deal with this. There are going to be some rooms with more noise, more vibration, or motion. Numbers seem to be the name of the game, the more people they have aboard , the more opportunity for revenue. Its a business, may be our vacation but its their livelihood. In most cases they do a good job of balancing meeting passenger expectation and meeting the financial bottom line.
What we are seeing in the cruise industry reminds me of the decline of air travel. When a cheap price is your sole criteria for something , you will get what you pay for.....some times worse

[pomgo]

You can still choose cabin and have problems. We had on the Statendam leaking roof 2 nights inside cabin and the finally had to move to another cabin Fortunately it was the same location we had chosen but on otherside of ship.

[grandmaR]

But its common sense that the lower in the ship you are, the more vibration or noise you may have

This is not necessarily true. Lower and near the center you will have less motion. Higher and on the ends (like balconies) and you will feel the ship motion more. That will be true regardless of the ship, ship size or the name of the owning corporation. It's physics.

Really close to the bow - even higher up- and you will have anchor noise. Under the kitchen or a nightclub you will have noise even if you are not low (on HAL you will have two passenger cabin decks under you and some above you so about in the middle), but under other staterooms, or under the dining room or the theatre, not as much of a problem.

[fcorey]

This is not necessarily true. Lower and near the center you will have less motion. Higher and on the ends (like balconies) and you will feel the ship motion more. That will be true regardless of the ship, ship size or the name of the owning corporation. It's physics.


Sorry let me explain what i was referring to. Most subs I was on in the Navy were nuclear powered and while they banked and rolled you didnt feel any wave motion nor was there any perceptible vibration from the reactor and turbine. However the lower you are in the hull of a ship with conventional propulsion, the closer you are to the gensets. The diesel gensets used to power your average ship are each the size of a school bus and they have around a half dozen of them. Great care is taken in sound and vibration isolation but there will be some. When i say motion I am referring to the vibration from the thrusters and the pods and gensets. When docking the thrusters produce enough vibration to turn some cabin beds into something resembling the old "magic fingers" massaging beds you'd see in old motels :)
That being said the rooms that will experience the least discomfort from rough seas with be on the lowest passenger deck, midship closest abeam of the keel.

[world~citizen]

I guess I never realized that.

I don't think its true. Just look at the first page of this board and decide for yourself.

Smooth sailing...

[world~citizen]

Every cruise line in the world does exactly the same thing.
There are noisy cabins on every ship.

Every airline in the world does exactly the same thing.
There are noisy seats on every flight.

How do you deal with this problem?
Do your homework before you book a flight - or a cruise cabin.

Well....

Ships and airplanes are apples and oranges.

[world~citizen]

One books a cruise (having done research or not) with a reasonable expectation that they will have a room they can sleep in. ...

Short and to the point.:D

Smooth sailing...

[BruceMuzz]

Well....

Ships and airplanes are apples and oranges.

Having worked on both, I find them nearly identical in operation:

Most tickets are sold through a travel agent.
Most everyone pays a different price for identical accommodations.
Everyone thinks they paid too much.
There are several classes of accommodation.
Everyone checks in and drops their bags at a terminal, and all board at nearly the same time.
Everyone tries to be the first one aboard.
Every departure, several people miss the flight/cruise, because they usually will not delay departure for stragglers.
Most tickets today are non-refundable if not used.
Everyone brings carry-ons aboard.
Several passengers lose their luggage every trip.
Everyone asks for a free upgrade. Most do not get one.
Every trip you have children mis-behaving and parents doing nothing about it.
Everyone complains that the onboard services are not as good as they used to be and most passengers are not as civil or well dressed as they used to be.
Everyone complains that the lines are cutting back on amenities and services to improve the bottom line.
Everyone complains about existing or proposed fuel surcharges.
Everyone complains about nickel and diming onboard.
Everyone complains that the seats/cabins are too small and getting smaller.
Most complaints come from the people who were too cheap/poor to purchase bigger seats/cabins.
Everyone complains that there are not as many service staff onboard as in the past.
Both have Captains, co-Captains, Engineers, and Chief Pursers.
Both have Port / Starboard and Forward / Aft everything.
Both have decks.
Both are fully booked most of the time.
Both have similar rules about bringing alcohol and dangerous articles onboard.
Both have frequent traveler programs that everyone complains about.
Both have websites that are not user friendly.
Both require passengers to have all necessary travel documents.
Both refuse to board passengers who do not have necessary travel documents.
Both are "international carriers", bound by many of the same cabotage and other international laws and regulations.
Both are inspected in America by branches of the CDC, to ensure the health of passengers.
Both have very similar airtight legal passage contracts, that hardly anyone ever reads.
Both have mandatory safety drills at the start of every trip, which hardly anyone pays attention to.
Both have a high number of poorly dressed passengers.
Both are subject to traffic controllers, who tell them when to leave, which direction to take, when to arrive, and which berth to dock at.
Both are required to display national registry flags on their aft sections.
Both must be "cleared" by local officials before passengers can disembark.
Both are immediately and profoundly affected by rising fuel prices.
Both use radar, GPS, and Satellite navigation.
Legal rules for crimes committed onboard planes ands ships are identical.
A jumbo jet and a mid-sized cruise ship burn about the same amount of fuel every trip.
Crew on both ships and airplances go through exactly the same recruiting, hiring and training procedures.
Crew on both go through exactly the same visa, customs, and immigration procedures.
Passengers paying for better class accommodations receive more perks, better food and more services.
Passengers who do not pay attention or do their homework end up sitting in the final aft row next to the toilets, or sleeping in a cabin under the disco.
When you have a complaint onboard, the Captain does not offer cash refunds.
If you have a complaint onboard, only a real idiot thinks that complaining to the Captain will help.
The Captain on both vehicles is the legal representative of the owner.
The Captain on both vehicles has final say on what occurs onboard, who stays, and who goes.
If you do have a major problem onboard, any refund or other settlement takes place after your trip, when you contact the corporate offices and work it out with them.
When arriving at the last port, nearly everyone gets off at the same time.
Everyone tries to be the first one off.
All the passengers must claim their bags in the terminal - and go through Immigration and Customs (if international).

[3rdGenCunarder]

Good list, Bruce! All the references to complaints made me laugh.

I disagree with only one item. Yes, airplane seats are getting smaller and leg room is getting more cramped all the time. However, I think ship cabins are getting larger. When we first cruised, the inside cabins were tiny, much smaller than inside cabins now. And the outside cabins on the older ships weren't large and often had just portholes, not picture windows. So I do think personal space on ships has improved.

[BruceMuzz]

Good list, Bruce! All the references to complaints made me laugh.

I disagree with only one item. Yes, airplane seats are getting smaller and leg room is getting more cramped all the time. However, I think ship cabins are getting larger. When we first cruised, the inside cabins were tiny, much smaller than inside cabins now. And the outside cabins on the older ships weren't large and often had just portholes, not picture windows. So I do think personal space on ships has improved.

Kathy,
You are correct that a few mass market lines are offering larger cabins in a few categories.
But for the majority of the lines, cabins generally are shrinking in nearly all categories.

[drcpa]

This reminds me of an old salesman friend of mine who told me that real salesmanship is making unlike things seem exactly alike, and then proceeded to perfectly compare a child's bike with a Harley Davidson motorcycle.
And who among us can forget that unfortunate two week flight we took where our room on the plane was underneath the galley?

[BruceMuzz]

Someone on their first cruise has no idea what to avoid, nor are they aware of the least desirable ship locations. They don't have any idea that they need to do a little research before booking a specific cabin. They probably have no idea what to ask or even what they need to know. That should be the TA's job.

After a little cruising experience I've come up with a set of criteria that I use when selecting a cabin. It costs a little more and may seem a little picky, but it works:

I don't book guarantees. I choose the cabin and mark it no upgrade. To me location is everything. HAL could upgrade me to a suite, but if it's in a bad location, well that's not an upgrade as far as I'm concerned.

I want to be at least two decks away from any public areas of the ship, both above and below my cabin. For example, the Upper Verandah deck VB category meets the requirement on the Eurodam.

Crew closets, work areas etc., must be at least 3 cabins away from mine.

There must be at least a 3 cabin buffer between stairs and elevators.

I avoid booking a cabin anywhere near white space areas on the deck plan.

I ask specific questions about what's around my cabin choice. I tell the cruise rep specifically that all I want around my cabin (above and below, left and right, front and back) are other cabins. Unless it's a verandah, then that will obviously back up to the ocean. :)

I no longer leave planning my cruise to a TA, I do it myself directly with the cruise line.

The key is experience. It's a shame that the OP's first cruise was in a crappy cabin. Unfortunately HAL has probably lost a customer for life now. I speculate that HAL would still have people willing to book cabins in less than desirable areas even if they issued a disclaimer of sorts beforehand.

centuryguy,

You have made some very good points and given very good advice.

It is true that ANYBODY doing ANYTHING for the first time will probably not really know what to look for, what to ask about, what to avoid. That's normal.

But most intelligent people learn from an early age that good knowledge is an excellent prevention for bad experiences.
When we were young we usually had a parent or two and maybe some siblings who could steer us clear of disaster. Their earlier experiences helped us avoid calamity when they imparted valuable knowledge that prevented us walking into traffic, jumping off roofs, or putting our hands into flames.
In school, most of us learned from books and teachers how not to repeat major errors made by our ancestors. Most of us also learned deductive and inductive reasoning methods that allow us to start with very few facts and come to intelligent and valuable conclusions.

As adults we have a responsibility to think just a bit before taking actions that might result in loss of health, wealth, happiness, or life.
One cannot walk in front of a moving train and then complain, "Nobody told me not to".

Why do we like the internet so much? Because it is a nearly free wealth of information that we can use to lead informed lives, avoid problems and errors, and take advantage of information to make our lives more enjoyable, productive, and successful.

A wise man once said, "Knowledge is power".
The internet gives us that knowledge and power for almost no charge.
How and why would any intelligent person ignore this gift?

Why do we like Cruisecritic so much?
Because it gives us very valuable free information and power to make the absolute most and best of our upcoming cruise experiences.
If anyone spends a bit of time and effort here - and pays attention - it is nearly impossible to go wrong.

When somebody takes a cruise, has a bad time, then comes here to complain about it, I am often saddened and confused.
If that same person had been just a bit more clever, he would have visited CC first, and gleaned the free valuable information he needed to produce a very enjoyable cruise experience for himself.
After the cruise - instead of complaining that his expectations were not met, or that "Nobody told me", he would be back here telling us all how much he enjoyed his cruise as a result of his clever use of this website.

[BruceMuzz]

This reminds me of an old salesman friend of mine who told me that real salesmanship is making unlike things seem exactly alike, and then proceeded to perfectly compare a child's bike with a Harley Davidson motorcycle.
And who among us can forget that unfortunate two week flight we took where our room on the plane was underneath the galley?

And how embarrassing to admit that someone over the age of 5 believed a salesman's pitch without checking the facts, thereby having to suffer for it.

[drcpa]

You know, you're right. Planes and ships are exactly the same thing. Or are you lying to me too?

[airlink diva]

Good morning!
I hate that your HAL cruise was a damper because of the cabin issue Boby. I would however place some of the blame at the agency feet on this.
I found out last year that some agencies don't receive cabins in the best locations and fail to let their customers know. One of the local radio stations had a group cruise for a great rate. A friend of mine wanted to go and ask me to join her.
I like to pick my own cabin,but the agency had to assign it. We were placed under one of the dancing areas. Since we didn't come back until after midnight most evenings, the hour of music didn't bother us too much. If someone was an early or light sleeper, it would. I also like cabins with rooms above and below me. But since the agency blocked these cabins, had to take what was offered.
Often a ship is full and even if they like to move you, they can't. On the same cruise we had major water damage and had to spend the last two days in a cabin with industrial fans and soggy floors :mad:!
I agree that cabins that are in certain areas need to have additional insulation or heavy discount rates with notice of possible noise issues. I know Carnival at one time had certain cabins as "Night Owl Cabins" because of the location.
I would suggest that on any cruise you take to look at ship plans and pick what cabin. Since you can go online and check the info on your sailing, if you see a change of cabin (if you want no upgrade), contact right away!
I hope you give HAL another chance because it's a great cruiseline!

[world~citizen]

Having worked on both, I find them nearly identical in operation:

Most tickets are sold through a travel agent.
Most everyone pays a different price for identical accommodations.
Everyone thinks they paid too much.
There are several classes of accommodation.
Everyone checks in and drops their bags at a terminal, and all board at nearly the same time.
Everyone tries to be the first one aboard.
Every departure, several people miss the flight/cruise, because they usually will not delay departure for stragglers.
Most tickets today are non-refundable if not used.
Everyone brings carry-ons aboard.
Several passengers lose their luggage every trip.
Everyone asks for a free upgrade. Most do not get one.
Every trip you have children mis-behaving and parents doing nothing about it.
Everyone complains that the onboard services are not as good as they used to be and most passengers are not as civil or well dressed as they used to be.
Everyone complains that the lines are cutting back on amenities and services to improve the bottom line.
Everyone complains about existing or proposed fuel surcharges.
Everyone complains about nickel and diming onboard.
Everyone complains that the seats/cabins are too small and getting smaller.
Most complaints come from the people who were too cheap/poor to purchase bigger seats/cabins.
Everyone complains that there are not as many service staff onboard as in the past.
Both have Captains, co-Captains, Engineers, and Chief Pursers.
Both have Port / Starboard and Forward / Aft everything.
Both have decks.
Both are fully booked most of the time.
Both have similar rules about bringing alcohol and dangerous articles onboard.
Both have frequent traveler programs that everyone complains about.
Both have websites that are not user friendly.
Both require passengers to have all necessary travel documents.
Both refuse to board passengers who do not have necessary travel documents.
Both are "international carriers", bound by many of the same cabotage and other international laws and regulations.
Both are inspected in America by branches of the CDC, to ensure the health of passengers.
Both have very similar airtight legal passage contracts, that hardly anyone ever reads.
Both have mandatory safety drills at the start of every trip, which hardly anyone pays attention to.
Both have a high number of poorly dressed passengers.
Both are subject to traffic controllers, who tell them when to leave, which direction to take, when to arrive, and which berth to dock at.
Both are required to display national registry flags on their aft sections.
Both must be "cleared" by local officials before passengers can disembark.
Both are immediately and profoundly affected by rising fuel prices.
Both use radar, GPS, and Satellite navigation.
Legal rules for crimes committed onboard planes ands ships are identical.
A jumbo jet and a mid-sized cruise ship burn about the same amount of fuel every trip.
Crew on both ships and airplances go through exactly the same recruiting, hiring and training procedures.
Crew on both go through exactly the same visa, customs, and immigration procedures.
Passengers paying for better class accommodations receive more perks, better food and more services.
Passengers who do not pay attention or do their homework end up sitting in the final aft row next to the toilets, or sleeping in a cabin under the disco.
When you have a complaint onboard, the Captain does not offer cash refunds.
If you have a complaint onboard, only a real idiot thinks that complaining to the Captain will help.
The Captain on both vehicles is the legal representative of the owner.
The Captain on both vehicles has final say on what occurs onboard, who stays, and who goes.
If you do have a major problem onboard, any refund or other settlement takes place after your trip, when you contact the corporate offices and work it out with them.
When arriving at the last port, nearly everyone gets off at the same time.
Everyone tries to be the first one off.
All the passengers must claim their bags in the terminal - and go through Immigration and Customs (if international).

Having worked on both, I find them nearly identical in operation...:

Well.

That kind of effort certainly deserves a response.

The metaphor of apples and oranges is a comparison between kinds of fruit. It does not imply that there is no similarity between them, but that there are differences - important differences. (No, I won't bore anyone with the similarity between an apple and an orange.):)

The expression is meant to point to the differences.

For example:

You don't spend more than a few hours on a plane. At most I have been on a plane for a day and a half including lousy connections. You are on a ship from few days to a few months.

A plane is strictly a mode of transportation to a destination. A cruise ship can be a destination in itself.

When you are on plane you are in transit, but on a cruise ship you are on a (luxury) vacation with all the warm fuzzies that implies.

Of course there is the way cruise companies sell their ships with promises of the perfect lobster, breathtaking scenery wonderful cruise staff and a restful peaceful experience if you so desire. And there is the rub. What is a reasonable person to expect?

If a person saves for a long time for a cruise vacation they reasonably expect a cabin that doesn't sound like grand central station. It is their home away from home while on that vacation. They aren't spending it on a plane, a train, or a Greyhound bus. They are on holiday on a cruise ship sold as a dream vacation.

My interpretation of what you are saying (not putting words in your mouth here, this is my understanding subject to correction) is that pax are little more than chumps if they don't pour over the internet, cruise brochures and travel boards before they select their cabin.

I do not subscribe to the chump theory of customer relations. I would be disappointed in the industry professionals that did.

Now I don't know what the answer is, but diminishing the vacation experience for select passengers should not be one of the options.

Your comments on this board are informed and you have a following.

On this issue though, I am pleased to disagree with you.

Smooth sailing...

[sparky-elpaso]

If they didn't put cabins in areas that might be noisy at certain times of the day a third of the ship would be empty space.

They could try to lump all public areas in 3 or 4 consecutive decks - but then people would complain that their cabin was too far from the dining room, pool, theatre, casino, etc. depending on if they were above / below those areas.

It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible.

[grandmaR]

Good morning!
I hate that your HAL cruise was a damper because of the cabin issue Boby. I would however place some of the blame at the agency feet on this.
I found out last year that some agencies don't receive cabins in the best locations and fail to let their customers know. One of the local radio stations had a group cruise for a great rate. A friend of mine wanted to go and ask me to join her.
I like to pick my own cabin,but the agency had to assign it. We were placed under one of the dancing areas. Since we didn't come back until after midnight most evenings, the hour of music didn't bother us too much. If someone was an early or light sleeper, it would. I also like cabins with rooms above and below me. But since the agency blocked these cabins, had to take what was offered.
Often a ship is full and even if they like to move you, they can't. On the same cruise we had major water damage and had to spend the last two days in a cabin with industrial fans and soggy floors :mad:!
I agree that cabins that are in certain areas need to have additional insulation or heavy discount rates with notice of possible noise issues. I know Carnival at one time had certain cabins as "Night Owl Cabins" because of the location.
I would suggest that on any cruise you take to look at ship plans and pick what cabin. Since you can go online and check the info on your sailing, if you see a change of cabin (if you want no upgrade), contact right away!
I hope you give HAL another chance because it's a great cruiseline!

The first cruise I took (which was on NCL), they gave us an upgrade (without asking us) from an inside cabin to an inside cabin higher up in the ship. I didn't know any better, so I didn't complain about it. It was extremely rough - so rough that the pool was emptied and one could not sit outside and the forward elevators were disabled. I don't usually have a problem with any kind of seasickness - in this cabin however I would get a headache if I tried to read. It's not a big deal. I would just sleep instead.

After the first couple of times cruising and using the lowest bidder for price on the internet (where I was again given an upgrade that I did NOT want on HAL), I started using a regular agent who knows what I want in a room. If I am offered an upgrade, he asks me first. Sometimes I take it, and sometimes not. Most of the time this works better, but I've learned from experience to check the deck plans anyway.

I think it is unrealistic to expect new people to know this, or to take advice that they use a cruise oriented travel agent instead of a general agency or one on the internet. They will have to learn by experience - either that or know that they need to do their homework.

It is also somewhat unrealistic for us to expect the cruise lines to have any more different price categories than they have now. When we were moved to under the kitchen, the noise in the early morning was annoying, but more because they moved us from the cabin we had picked without asking us than because we couldn't deal with it. I usually have to get up and go to the bathroom in the morning before I want to get up anyway, and I can go back to sleep afterwards. It didn't take us long to adjust to the noise.

I might also point out that some people are perennially dissatisfied and would find fault with Heaven, and some people are cheerful even in the face of extreme adversity. I don't take too much notice of either end of the spectrum. I'm much more likely to be interested in someone who says "I liked the food in general, but the beef was tough" than someone who says "the food on the whole cruise was inedible"

[fcorey]

A plane is strictly a mode of transportation to a destination. A cruise ship can be a destination in itself.


This is why I believe that a hotel is a better comparison than an aircraft. Have you looked at the beautiful photos online or in brochures for hotels? Well 90% of the rooms pictured arent like that. Take a look over at Tripadvisor.com and look for the "traveler photos" those are ones taken by people who have stayed at the hotel, they are quite frequently different and not as nice as the pro photos would lead you to believe.

There are also many instances where I have stayed at a hotel for work or pleasure where the room didnt meet expectation. In some cases it get rectified by a move in others it doesnt. But I have been burned enough to always research a hotel or ship well before I make final payment.


My interpretation of what you are saying (not putting words in your mouth here, this is my understanding subject to correction) is that pax are little more than chumps if they don't pour over the internet, cruise brochures and travel boards before they select their cabin.

I do not subscribe to the chump theory of customer relations. I would be disappointed in the industry professionals that did.


I wouldnt call it chump theory, but lets face it at any hotel, there are going to be superlative rooms....and others not so much.... I can tell you for a fact that those that assign rooms that are GUAR at HAL do not have any particular info in front of them saying that a certain room is bad. One of my friends does the room allocation and she told me that there may be some comments in the system about rooms but information about problem staterooms is more known on the ship. Its not something they see when they actually allocate stateroom inventory.

Its just one of those things that a really good TA (and I have a great one) can assist with. But if you use an online service or the cruise line's website it just pays to do some research here or other places before you spend your hard earned money.

[fcorey]

If they didn't put cabins in areas that might be noisy at certain times of the day a third of the ship would be empty space.

They could try to lump all public areas in 3 or 4 consecutive decks - but then people would complain that their cabin was too far from the dining room, pool, theatre, casino, etc. depending on if they were above / below those areas.

It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible.

Very true, that would be interesting to see

[paulista1950]

"It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible. "
"Very true, that would be interesting to see"

So what you are saying and fcorey agrees is if I buy a car with a dozen flaws I only have the right to complain if I'm able to build a better one?:confused:

[kazu]

"It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible. "
"Very true, that would be interesting to see"

So what you are saying and fcorey agrees is if I buy a car with a dozen flaws I only have the right to complain if I'm able to build a better one?:confused:

No, I don't think that's the point. The point is hotels and ships have great rooms and some not so great. To try to design a ship without some of the not so great ones would mean a cruise would be an astronomical lot more money.

Keep in mind, that what one feels is horrible others don't. Everything is subjective. In any case, I know of few hotels (such as the examples given above) where every room is perfect (except the very very pricey ones).

Since HAL is not 6* nor many others, whether you cruise HAL, NCL, Princess, Carnival, MSC or whatever there are some of 'those rooms' out there. some people are bothered by the scraping of chairs, some are not. Some are bothered by the shuddering in the aft portion - some are not.
Some don't like forward cabins - some do. It's a matter of finding out where you are comfortable, choosing the cabin and enjoying it. JMO:)

[paulista1950]

"Our cruise was almost ruined because of our lack of sleep caused by having to listen to the galley noise all night long."

It seems to me that many people here didn't get the meaning of
all night long


"One cannot walk in front of a moving train and then complain, "Nobody told me not to"
Of course not, but what if a big company sells a seat in a train route?

"Bruce Muzz, right on. It's like buying a VW Beatle, one will be bumpy with a lot more noise, but costs a lot less, you made the decision."
No it's not. The VW won't have any of the luxury features of a Mercedes Benz, and won't be as fast as a Ferrari, but it'll move. Noise all night long
is the equivalent of not moving. VW = inside, Mercedes Benz = suite and you should be able to sleep on either one.

"In my experience on the internet, fair or not, the tone of the initial post is a major determinant in the direction of the thread."
May be so, but it don't make any sense whatsoever. If you complain to a manager, I can see why his reaction will be related to your tone, but are we
dealing here with HAL representatives?

[sparky-elpaso]

"It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible. "
"Very true, that would be interesting to see"

So what you are saying and fcorey agrees is if I buy a car with a dozen flaws I only have the right to complain if I'm able to build a better one?:confused:

Depends on what the "flaw" is. Sometimes there just isn't a better way to design something and still keep it within engineering standards, common sense, etc. There are all sorts of safety standards, etc. that have to be considered when designing a car, ship, or whatever. Someone could probably design a car that was pretty much indestructible - but it probably would be priced beyond what anyone could pay for one and would get 5 miles per gallon because of all the armor.

I used to work for the Engineering dept of our city government and have attended meetings between architects and other people who aren't architects or engineers. I was in a meeting with the engineers when someone high up in the government decided they wanted a kitchen added to a building that wasn't originally designed for one - and insisted on it. It meant a complete re-design of that area - from the floor up. And that was just a building - not a ship which has to float, withstand all kinds of weather, has to be built to very strict safety standards, and still be comfortable for the passengers and crew. And be cost effective.

[Jacqueline]

The thing is a Upgrade often sounds so wonderful, when many times, the cabin is not one that a passenger would knowingly book! The TA should be the one accountable not HAL or any other cruiseline that does the same thing.
For some people noise is not at big an issue as it is for others. Some people stay up late, others get up early or are sound sleepers.
I plan as best as possible to get a quiet room, bring earplugs and and Ipod with headphones. Even in the best cabin you can get inconsiderate neighbors.

[fcorey]

"It would be interesting to see what the complainers would come up with if they were designing the ship - and if what they came up with was even feasible. "
"Very true, that would be interesting to see"

So what you are saying and fcorey agrees is if I buy a car with a dozen flaws I only have the right to complain if I'm able to build a better one?:confused:

:D Sure..isnt that how the Puma came to be :).... (just kidding I have a 1967).. actually what i was saying is that it would be interesting to see what a communally designed ship would look like....kind of like what NCL did with Epic, but hopefull not quite as ugly....:)

[seapointer]

We were under the pool deck on our recent cruise and had a lot of noise around midnight thenfirst two nights as crew members seemed to be shuffling chairs and creating a racket. We complained to the front desk and the noise stopped the rest of the cruise. I guess they figured out that the same activity could be done earlier. We also received a free tray of chocolates as a make up gesture.

[fcorey]

"Our cruise was almost ruined because of our lack of sleep caused by having to listen to the galley noise all night long."

It seems to me that many people here didn't get the meaning of
all night long


FYI all galleys on ships DO NOT run 24hours at full staff. But that is beside the point. The fact is that some rooms arent going to be outstanding, but none of the ship designers or cruise lines intentionally create rooms that have issues. However as you said some staterooms do. The name of the game for them is how can we get more passengers on this ship? On ships full use of the limited space you have is the name of the game. I sympathize with those that get stuck with a "bad" room. For that reason I never book a GUAR room. I pick a room based on how much I am willing to spend for a trip and where it is on the deck plan. Unfortunately people new to cruising wont know about those gotchas, that is why CC does do a good service in that respect. Yes we get on here and complain and such but there is allot of very good information available.

[world~citizen]

This is why I believe that a hotel is a better comparison than an aircraft.

Ships are often referred to as floating hotels and your point is well taken.

I know that some people board a cruise ship for the first time and expect to see something between the love boat and the Titanic - well you know what I mean. I met a couple like that on the Rotterdam who told me they were marching down to the Hotel Manager to demand their money back first day of the cruise. After the HM explained the facts of life to them they settled down, and by the end of the cruise I actually saw a smile on their faces. They said they would cruise again but on a different line. I don't think they honestly ruled out HAL though.

Cruise lines project an image. If on the basis of that image pax expect the equivalent of a suite at the Waldorf for the cost of an outside cabin with balcony, I don't have a lot of sympathy with that.

My point here, and this is where I get blasted, is that they are at least entitled to the basics you would expect in a Best Western or Hotel Six. By that I mean the televisions should work, the toilets should flush, safes and hair dryers should be in good working order and the rooms should allow for the quiet enjoyment of the above . As a partner in a small hotel in my home city, I can tell you this is something we demand on behalf of our guests. I don't have a whole lot of sympathy for a cruise company that doesn't deliver in these respects. Odours and noisy cabins are no small thing - and they are more problematic for some than others.

I am not inclined to take the cruise company off the hook for these problems quite the same as others do, because believe me they know all about them. For some, cruise companies "can do no wrong none of the time", and not even cruise companies believe that.

If a cabin is going to be built in a problematic part of a ship, perhaps more care can be taken with respect to sound insulation for that cabin. Engineers can do miracles with this sort of thing. They won't do it if people don't express dissatisfaction. This is a forum where customers can express it.

I'm on their side on this one.

So what do you do when a customer says a vacation is ruined because of a noisy cabin? You evaluate it on a case by case basis and hopefully, retain the customer. (Its harder to make a new one than keep an old one)

Smooth sailing...

[paulista1950]

I never book a guaranty
I always study carefully the deck plan
I agree with most of you on better and worse cabins
I know some people expect a cruise to be like a dream I met some of them

That being said I still thing a cabin where you listen to the galley noise all night long isn't bad, it's terrible unacceptable

I guess that's all folks;)

[fcorey]

I never book a guaranty
I always study carefully the deck plan
I agree with most of you on better and worse cabins
I know some people expect a cruise to be like a dream I met some of them

That being said I still thing a cabin where you listen to the galley noise all night long isn't bad, it's terrible unacceptable

I guess that's all folks;)

I think we agree on most points :)
How is the weather in Sao Paulo? I will be there for the month of September for work

[Gaucho39]

Isn't there the chance that some people book the cheapest cabin and simply find an excuse to be moved (hopefully to a better cabin)

If the cruise line has sold that cabin for 39 cruises in a row with no complaints. Why should they jump through hoops or close this cabin down for one complainer. It seems that nobody wants to be accountable
Blame the cruise line, blame the travel agent.
Just don't blame the occupant of the lost cabin.

Fenway park has many a seat behind a column. Guess what? They sell out every single game. With the logic on this board, ivshouk be sitting behind a column, whine and complain and maybe they'll put me up in the air conditioned pressbox for the remainder of the game.

I'm sure the board "Smooth Sailing" attorney will have some newfangled rebuttal.

[world~citizen]

...I'm sure the board "Smooth Sailing" attorney will have some newfangled rebuttal.

OK, you are cynical. :D

Smooth sailing to you

[paulista1950]

I think we agree on most points :)
How is the weather in Sao Paulo? I will be there for the month of September for work

Till yesterday it was extremely dry (around 20%) and hot, today it's a little colder (max 26ºC) and less dry. We are expecting rain on Sunday.
But as you may or may not know, weather here is very unstable

[KathyPet]

I don't think anyone is forced to accept a upgrade. Did you perhaps book what is called a "guarantee". That is when you are guaranteed a cabin in your category but then you might get a upgrade to a higher level. If you booked a guarantee then you are agreeing to accept what they give you.

[KathyPet]

I just read a review on Cruise Critic a couple of days ago on a ship I am considering. The poster gave the cruise two stars. What was the basis of their rating? THe huge majority of their gripes involved the food and what problems he and his sister had with what appears to be a endless list of food allergies. The discussions they had daily with their waiter and the food management people. Every day they had a food problem of one sort of another. Now you just know that they were the passengers from hell and exactly the sort that no one wants to be with a a table in the dining room. After reading the entire review I though "who cares?"
If you have that many food allergies then what are you doing eating in any sort of a public place to begin with?
After reading the entire review one can only feel sympathy for the crew.

[Watson's aunt]

Hi

I feel bad for you as this was your first cruise and it was ruined, I think some people here forget when they went on first cruise. If you do go on another cruise I hope you do. Come onthis board. Go to the site of which ship you are going to be on. Ask them which room is good and which room to stay away from. I was on a cruise in June I was afraid I might be moved to a room I might not like. It was a inside and in middle of ship. Please go to boards and ask. You are a newbie in this and because you posted prevented a lot of people from making the same mistake

[3rdGenCunarder]

I just read a review on Cruise Critic a couple of days ago on a ship I am considering. The poster gave the cruise two stars. What was the basis of their rating? THe huge majority of their gripes involved the food and what problems he and his sister had with what appears to be a endless list of food allergies. The discussions they had daily with their waiter and the food management people. Every day they had a food problem of one sort of another. Now you just know that they were the passengers from hell and exactly the sort that no one wants to be with a a table in the dining room. After reading the entire review I though "who cares?"
If you have that many food allergies then what are you doing eating in any sort of a public place to begin with?
After reading the entire review one can only feel sympathy for the crew.

That's why you need to read the whole review and not just go by the stars.

A surprising number of passengers travel with allergies and food sensitivities. Yes, some of them are passengers from hell who use the allergy to get attention. But many people who have allergies have learned to manage their needs with a minimum of fuss.

I'm blessed with good health and no allergies, and I wonder how well I'd do traveling if I weren't so lucky. I'm always impressed with people who have health issues and manage to cruise and do other kinds of travel. They don't give into the problem, they keep on going, and do it gracefully!

[fcorey]

Till yesterday it was extremely dry (around 20%) and hot, today it's a little colder (max 26ºC) and less dry. We are expecting rain on Sunday.
But as you may or may not know, weather here is very unstable

That may be so but its still one of my favorite places to travel for work.

[world~citizen]

Hi

I feel bad for you as this was your first cruise and it was ruined, I think some people here forget when they went on first cruise. If you do go on another cruise I hope you do. Come onthis board. Go to the site of which ship you are going to be on. Ask them which room is good and which room to stay away from. I was on a cruise in June I was afraid I might be moved to a room I might not like. It was a inside and in middle of ship. Please go to boards and ask. You are a newbie in this and because you posted prevented a lot of people from making the same mistake

What a kind and generous post.:)

Smooth sailing...

[grandmaR]

I don't think anyone is forced to accept a upgrade. Did you perhaps book what is called a "guarantee". That is when you are guaranteed a cabin in your category but then you might get a upgrade to a higher level. If you booked a guarantee then you are agreeing to accept what they give you.

That's not true. We booked a specific cabin (not a guarentee) for a b2b. The same cabin on both cruises obviously. At dockside we found they had given us an upgrade for the first cruise. I said I didn't want it, and they said they had already given my cabin that I had booked away and that I could not have it. So I was forced to accept the upgrade.

They said it was my fault for not checking the cabin I was in before I drove to the port.

[catl331]

deleted

[IRL_Joanie]

post on last page?

Cat, shows your post on page 4 of page 5 for me. Still cannot access page 5. I have you as post 156.

Joanie

[catl331]

158?

[catl331]

159?

[catl331]

160?

[catl331]

a new 161?

[IRL_Joanie]

Mine will make post 161 and all still showing as being on page 4 of 5. Page 5 not wanting to come up. I am wondering if there is actually a page 5 or if there is a misnumbering/scroll problem.....

EDITED: After posting I hit refresh and what woud originally have been 161 is now 162 and showing on Page 5!! Looks like CC hjas the problem fixed... At least on this thread:)

Joanie

[Krazy Kruizers]

I can see all the pages and move back and forth from one page to another.

[catl331]

It looks like the original posts 161 to 164 have been lost.

[RuthC]

It looks like the original posts 161 to 164 have been lost.
That's how I'm (not) reading the situation.

[mudscraper]

That's how I'm (not) reading the situation.
No problems here. All posts showing.

[RuthC]

No problems here. All posts showing.
The original posts? cat|331 is right, I think, in that posts 161-164 that are not the test posts are missing.

[vbmom87]

Sorry to see there was some problem with the posting while I was in the beautiful Alaska!!!

Anyway, I just wanted to comment on my HH cabin that was under the galley. Yes, we heard noise, mostly in the evening until about 10:30 p.m. It was not a problem for us at all. (We were usually gone until about midnight, but two evenings my DH was under the weather due to motion, so we called it a night earlier those days.) We got the cabin for a great price, so we were not disappointed at all. We also had a decent ocean view out of our window which was a pleasant surprise. We would definitely book this cabin again for the right price. To us it was worth it. Those who must have absolute quiet would probably be unhappy.

[paulista1950]

That may be so but its still one of my favorite places to travel for work.

Nice to know. :)
Usually foreigners like Rio and dislike SP.
Btw, the rain arrived today, but it's gone for now.

[Hlitner]

Hello,

We didn't book it. We went through an agency where you are assigned a room. We originally had a room on the Dolphin deck below which would have been very quiet. This was an upgrade Holland America gave us without our asking. Now, I will only book through the line itself and choose my room. I would rather pay more, be happy and sleep well! Our first cruise - had no idea!! :confused:

What happened to you had nothing to do with the agency. You can book a category guarantee cabin through any agency or the HA site. You also can book specific cabins through any agency or HA, and if you want to make sure you do not get an unwelcomed upgrade you need to simply tell the agency or HA "no upgrades." Whenever you book a guarantee you are taking a calculated risk.

Hank

[pmacher61]

I have perused the entire thread and share the following thoughts.

1. The cruise line industry is under regulated. The contract of passage contains extremely one sided terms that attempt as much as the law will allow ( and then some) to exculpate the company from liability for its malfeasance.

2. Like others, I enjoy reading the posts of Bruce Muzz, the experienced hotel mgr, who participates here frequently. Though BM often complains about the litigiousness of the passnegers (and their lawyers), the absence of regulation often requires tht the courts fill in what the legislatures have left out. There are excesses on both sides of the "versus."

3. In contracts for land based residential properties/apts the law of many jurisdictions "implies' in every rental agreement a covenant of quiet
enjoyment ( usually referring to title) and habitability ( referring to conditions). These implied terms require the owner/landlord to provide quarters that meet minimun health and safety standards. Constant excessive noise (along with any other number of unsafe and/or unhealthy conditions, e.g. lack of heat, no running water) constitute a constructive eviction entitling the tenant to break the lease, move out, and seek remedial damages from the landlord.

4. I do not know whether there are laws requiring the cruise line to provide a reasonably quiet cabin. I see no reason why the same requirements reqarding "habitability" should not hold true for a cruise ship. Ships have been held accountable as places of public accomodation under US laws regarding nondiscrimination against handicapped persons pursuant to the ADA. I believe they should also be classified as such for purpose of laws dealing with the implied covenants of quiet enjoyment and habitability. What is unreasonable may depend on many factors. After all, no one is expected to guarantee calm seas, but certains levels of negative conditions including excessive noise without fair disclosures may rise to the level of a breach of the implied covenant of habitability. That is only fair. No cruise customer should be required to suffer unreasably bad conditions they could not reasonably be expected to anticipate.

5. Maybe BM will share what he knows of the attempts by unhappy customers to seek legal remedies in these circumstances. I'm sure the contract of passage will contain language purporting to insulate the company from such claims, but, as I indicated above, such exculpatory language may be ruled to be an unlawful overreach on the part of the cruise line - assuming they would be held to the same standards as a land based landlord.

6. BM is an entertaining and well informed person, but his approach here is often like that of a bull in a china closet. BM - you may be a great hotel mgr, but if you deal with staff as sarcastically as you sometimes deal with CC posters, you may not be the most loved boss in the world. A senior manager colleague of mine used to have a cartoon on his office wall. It portrayed a cartoonish student pushing mightily against the entrance door of the "school for gifted children." notwithstnding the presence of a "pull" sign on the door. If you expect people to always do the reasonable and intelligent thing in any area of life, you are going to be a very disappointed person, not to mention the danger of high blood pressure that often marks those managers who fail to account for human foibles. No one is required to research the habitability of a hotel room or a ship cabin. Period.

[fcorey]

Nice to know. :)
Usually foreigners like Rio and dislike SP.
Btw, the rain arrived today, but it's gone for now.

What makes the country are its citizens, i've spent a month at a time in Porto Alegre, Campinas, Brazilia, Manaus , and SP. Its a great country and I hope to travel there for a vacation some time in the future.

[fcorey]

I have perused the entire thread and share the following thoughts.

1. The cruise line industry is under regulated. The contract of passage contains extremely one sided terms that attempt as much as the law will allow ( and then some) to exculpate the company from liability for its malfeasance.

2. Like others, I enjoy reading the posts of Bruce Muzz, the experienced hotel mgr, who participates here frequently. Though BM often complains about the litigiousness of the passnegers (and their lawyers), the absence of regulation often requires tht the courts fill in what the legislatures have left out. There are excesses on both sides of the "versus."

3. In contracts for land based residential properties/apts the law of many jurisdictions "implies' in every rental agreement a covenant of quiet
enjoyment ( usually referring to title) and habitability ( referring to conditions). These implied terms require the owner/landlord to provide quarters that meet minimun health and safety standards. Constant excessive noise (along with any other number of unsafe and/or unhealthy conditions, e.g. lack of heat, no running water) constitute a constructive eviction entitling the tenant to break the lease, move out, and seek remedial damages from the landlord.

4. I do not know whether there are laws requiring the cruise line to provide a reasonably quiet cabin. I see no reason why the same requirements reqarding "habitability" should not hold true for a cruise ship. Ships have been held accountable as places of public accomodation under US laws regarding nondiscrimination against handicapped persons pursuant to the ADA. I believe they should also be classified as such for purpose of laws dealing with the implied covenants of quiet enjoyment and habitability. What is unreasonable may depend on many factors. After all, no one is expected to guarantee calm seas, but certains levels of negative conditions including excessive noise without fair disclosures may rise to the level of a breach of the implied covenant of habitability. That is only fair. No cruise customer should be required to suffer unreasably bad conditions they could not reasonably be expected to anticipate.

5. Maybe BM will share what he knows of the attempts by unhappy customers to seek legal remedies in these circumstances. I'm sure the contract of passage will contain language purporting to insulate the company from such claims, but, as I indicated above, such exculpatory language may be ruled to be an unlawful overreach on the part of the cruise line - assuming they would be held to the same standards as a land based landlord.

6. BM is an entertaining and well informed person, but his approach here is often like that of a bull in a china closet. BM - you may be a great hotel mgr, but if you deal with staff as sarcastically as you sometimes deal with CC posters, you may not be the most loved boss in the world. A senior manager colleague of mine used to have a cartoon on his office wall. It portrayed a cartoonish student pushing mightily against the entrance door of the "school for gifted children." notwithstnding the presence of a "pull" sign on the door. If you expect people to always do the reasonable and intelligent thing in any area of life, you are going to be a very disappointed person, not to mention the danger of high blood pressure that often marks those managers who fail to account for human foibles. No one is required to research the habitability of a hotel room or a ship cabin. Period.

There is a big difference between legislation for safety and anti-discrimination versus making sure people are "happy". How do you quantify so that such a subjective thing is fair to both parties? Not sure you can. The simple fact that ADA "barely" applies based on the Supreme courts ruling and written opinion. They applied a very limited application of title III of ADA. So good luck in trying to get them to regulate something far more fluid. The thing they mused over most was does applying ADA interfere with ship operations. It was a far from unanimous ruling....and that was dealing with discrimination of handicapped. I have sailed with Brucemuzz as HM and I know from speaking to several staff that he is both well respected and liked.

[world~citizen]

I have perused the entire thread and share the following thoughts...

Thorough and thoughtful observations.

Smooth sailing...

[world~citizen]

I have perused the entire thread and share the following thoughts.

Those are good thoughts.

You expressed the situation far better than I could have.:)

Smooth sailing...

[world~citizen]

It seems this thread isn't working so well.:confused:

[world~citizen]

What do you know, thread works again.

[world~citizen]

There is a big difference between legislation for safety and anti-discrimination versus making sure people are "happy". How do you quantify so that such a subjective thing is fair to both parties? Not sure you can. The simple fact that ADA "barely" applies based on the Supreme courts ruling and written opinion. They applied a very limited application of title III of ADA. So good luck in trying to get them to regulate something far more fluid. The thing they mused over most was does applying ADA interfere with ship operations. It was a far from unanimous ruling....and that was dealing with discrimination of handicapped. I have sailed with Brucemuzz as HM and I know from speaking to several staff that he is both well respected and liked.

What protection is appropriate where problems like this arise?

I really do have to go back to the ordinary person who works hard and plays by the rules and buys a cruise, perhaps a dream vacation and ends up living beneath grand central station. I don't know how bad the noise was during that cruise or if there were exceptional circumstances involved. But its not just noisy cabins.

Over the years I have seen on these boards complaints of flooding - I mean flooding to the point where on at least one occasion pax slept in public areas. There have been complaints of sewage odours. As I have said earlier, that is no small thing and some people react physically differently, really differently than others.

Toilets not flushing seems to be a common enough complaint. Then of course there is the ever popular missing of ports, sometimes due to weather etc, sometimes owing to mechanical problems. The list goes on.

The question is how do we address these concerns? Pmacher61 is on to something when he says: "the cruise line industry is under regulated. The contract of passage contains extremely one sided terms..."

What is the result? All too often where we have seen examples of the problems listed above, it would not be unrealistic to characterize the cruiseline response as:"no redress none of the time". As if that isn't bad enough, if pax post their concerns here, I can almost bet the thread will eventually get around to: "ship happens", "is the cruise company really responsible for mechanical failure?", "pax complain about odours because they want a free cruise" or some cabins are more comfortable on ships because some seats are more comfortable on airplanes.

I am no lawyer but I do understand that it should all boil down to what is reasonable. Reasonable is pretty subjective.

Is it reasonable to have to pour over deck plans before you buy a cruise to prevent sleepless nights from galley noise?

Cruiseline advertising reflects elegantly attired pax sipping champagne in crystal glasses over dinner prepared by members of the Chaîne des Rôtisseurs. Is it reasonable to expect the people in those ads to retire to cabins with unremitting noise, in halls wreaking of sewage or diesel fuel, or flooded by faulty plumbing? I can tell you that to some people who post on these boards the answer is yes!

I am not one of them.

Perhaps it all comes down to Pmacher61's first observation: "the cruiseline industry is under regulated..."

As long as it is, people will bring these kinds of complaints to boards like CC where, we can all hope some good will come of it.

I am an optimist. :)

Smooth sailing...

[pmacher61]

There is a big difference between legislation for safety and anti-discrimination versus making sure people are "happy". How do you quantify so that such a subjective thing is fair to both parties? Not sure you can. The simple fact that ADA "barely" applies based on the Supreme courts ruling and written opinion. They applied a very limited application of title III of ADA. So good luck in trying to get them to regulate something far more fluid. The thing they mused over most was does applying ADA interfere with ship operations. It was a far from unanimous ruling....and that was dealing with discrimination of handicapped. I have sailed with Brucemuzz as HM and I know from speaking to several staff that he is both well respected and liked.

I agree. In determining whether the cruise line violated its obligation to provide a "habitable" cabin the definition of "reasonable" is elusive. In the common law of the UK and US reasonable is defined by the standards of the hypothetical ordinarily prudent person. In case by case, jurors decide what is reasonable based upon their experience and their common sense of things as applied to the facts of the particular case.

In the case of a passenger claim that a cruise line has violated the implied covenant of habtability because the noise in a cabin rendered it uninhabitable, the passenger would be required to 'prove" the noise level made the cabin unlivable. That would not be an easy thing to do so it would not constitute a serious problem for the cruise line to allow a passenger to "plead his case."

Firstly, almost all cruise contracts have mandatory arbitration and choice of forum clauses that would require a complaining passenger to institute a comparatively streamlined arbitration proceeding (not a lawsuit) in the jurisdiction designated by the cruise line. That means the passenger would have to institute the proceeding in the place where the cruise line typically has it headquarters. Even if there were no mandatory arbitration clause a law suit would have to be filed at the forum designated in the cruise contract, the cruise line HQ. That puts a passenger living in a distant location at a big disadvantage. It would discourage frivilous proceedings. Also discouraging frivilous claims would be the attorneys fee clause in all cruise contacts whereby the loser has to pay the winner's attorneys fees.

In any such proceeding the passenger would have the burden of proving by the preponderance of credible evidence that the cabin was uninhabitable for a significant portion of the cruise. Uninhabitability could be caused by broken sewer line disabling the bathroom, a flood, consistent foul odor, noise, lack of heat or airconditioning when needed, etc that the cruise line unreasonably failed to remedy. Again, reasonability is the standard. That would mean trifling temporary inconveniences or occurences that could not have been avoided even with the use of reasonable care on the part of the cruise line would not expose the cruise line to liability. To make a cabin uninhabitable there would have to be a serious problem that was of significant duration which the cruise line should have been able to avoid or fix in a reasonable amount of time under the totality of conditions. Yes, these are very, very flexible and uncertain parameters, but that is exactly what allows society to have "laws"that change with the mores of the society as they evolve.

Other limitations would attach as in the case of ADA application. The ships would have to port in US ports for these hypothetical US laws to be applicable (if, in fact, they are now only hypothetical).

AS for BM , I dont doubt you that he is well liked and well respected by his staff. Nevertheless, I hope you would agree that some of his posts are very sarcastic even to the point of ridiculing people for spelling errors. Maybe he uses CC to vent his frustration so he doesnt have to take it out on his team.

[paulista1950]

What makes the country are its citizens, i've spent a month at a time in Porto Alegre, Campinas, Brazilia, Manaus , and SP. Its a great country and I hope to travel there for a vacation some time in the future.

You got to know cities (and citizens, I agree on they making a country) extremely different from each other, almost if they were from other countries.

[Gaucho39]

What protection is appropriate where problems like this arise?

I really do have to go back to the ordinary person who works hard and plays by the rules and buys a cruise, perhaps a dream vacation and ends up living beneath grand central station. I don't know how bad the noise was during that cruise or if there were exceptional circumstances involved. But its not just noisy cabins.
It's hard to believe that there's no research done on booking a cruise in 2011. People comparison shop FOR EVERYTHING. When they're buying a pair of crocs,an ipad,laptop etc. Why do they end up in this cabin? Do they end up in a house that has a maximum security prison in their backyard? Do they purchase cars that have a history of being recalled and inundated with problems. They know when the fare drops $5 but don't know they're in a lousy cabin?

Over the years I have seen on these boards complaints of flooding - I mean flooding to the point where on at least one occasion pax slept in public areas. There have been complaints of sewage odours. As I have said earlier, that is no small thing and some people react physically differently, really differently than others.
I've sailed on Celebrity, Princess, and Holland America and have smelled "Sewer Smell" on all of them, some stronger than others. I always chalked it up to, 1200 people constantly gorging = sewer smell

Toilets not flushing seems to be a common enough complaint. Then of course there is the ever popular missing of ports, sometimes due to weather etc, sometimes owing to mechanical problems. The list goes on.

The question is how do we address these concerns? Pmacher61 is on to something when he says: "the cruise line industry is under regulated. The contract of passage contains extremely one sided terms..."

What is the result? All too often where we have seen examples of the problems listed above, it would not be unrealistic to characterize the cruiseline response as:"no redress none of the time". As if that isn't bad enough, if pax post their concerns here, I can almost bet the thread will eventually get around to: "ship happens", "is the cruise company really responsible for mechanical failure?", "pax complain about odours because they want a free cruise" or some cabins are more comfortable on ships because some seats are more comfortable on airplanes.


I am no lawyer but I do understand that it should all boil down to what is reasonable. Reasonable is pretty subjective.

Is it reasonable to have to pour over deck plans before you buy a cruise to prevent sleepless nights from galley noise?

Cruiseline advertising reflects elegantly attired pax sipping champagne in crystal glasses over dinner prepared by members of the Chaîne des Rôtisseurs. Is it reasonable to expect the people in those ads to retire to cabins with unremitting noise, in halls wreaking of sewage or diesel fuel, or flooded by faulty plumbing? I can tell you that to some people who post on these boards the answer is yes!
Here... You have a valid point. This cruiseline advertising is what hooks me in. Your sipping champagne description is really vivid. The problem is when I see the guy in Roman sandals and corn chip toe nails sipping the champagne,and his wife in a jogging suit she's worn for three days, I'm not getting what was advertised in the brochure.Hey perhaps I could register a complaint and get a free cruise or at the very least some chocolate covered strawberries?

I am not one of them.

Perhaps it all comes down to Pmacher61's first observation: "the cruiseline industry is under regulated..."

As long as it is, people will bring these kinds of complaints to boards like CC where, we can all hope some good will come of it.

I am an optimist. :)

Smooth sailing...

Well Irene is heading up the coast and even if the weather experts predict it making landfall in Hamilton Bermuda, I'm sure the unregulated ship will have the half a dozen yahoos, who are adamant about sailing into 125 knot winds to see Bermuda For 'They've Saved For A Lfetime For This"

And if I don't see Bermuda I WILL REMOVE THE HOTEL CHARGES!!!!!

[fcorey]

AS for BM , I dont doubt you that he is well liked and well respected by his staff. Nevertheless, I hope you would agree that some of his posts are very sarcastic even to the point of ridiculing people for spelling errors. Maybe he uses CC to vent his frustration so he doesnt have to take it out on his team.

Dont get me wrong, I agree about consumer/passenger protection to an extent. However in reading the supreme court opinions on applying ADA to ships, I think that it would be tough to get them to apply more progressive consumer protection legislation. Lets not forget teh industry will fight regulation to the furthest extent they can so they would spend years and likely push it through the courts until they get back to supreme court.

BM has a good sense of humor and maybe a bit sarcastic at that. I think at times he is very direct on here as he is allowed to be somewhat anonymous and will share his years of experience. And maybe he does use CC to vent, i've never asked him that, we are more acquaintances than friends per se, however he has always provided great advice when I have asked him.

[pmacher61]

It's hard to believe that there's no research done on booking a cruise in 2011.
Maybe, but it's not hard to believe that customers will be ignorant that certain cabins are so poorly designed, so poorly maintained, or so poorly insulated that the noise level makes the cabin unreasonably loud, unreasonably hot or cold, or unreasonably smelly, etc. Even intelligent people may not undertake that kind of research. Moreover, the existence of these problems may not be widely disclosed so that unwary passengers will have no way of finding out about these conditions prior to being subjected to them.
Well Irene is heading up the coast and even if the weather experts predict it making landfall in Hamilton Bermuda, I'm sure the unregulated ship will have the half a dozen yahoos, who are adamant about sailing into 125 knot winds to see Bermuda For 'They've Saved For A Lfetime For This And if I don't see Bermuda I WILL REMOVE THE HOTEL CHARGES!!!!!
Sarcasm notwithstanding, you are no doubt right about unreasonable passengers making overreaching demands, but your observation is inapposite. Two wrongs don't make a right. No one disputes that passengers can be very unreasonable. Unreasonable passengers constantly kvetching to the room steward, demanding to see the Hotel Mgr and Captain about something or other is a phenomenon the cruise line has to be prepared to deal with. It comes with the territory. However, if a customer has a valid complaint about the livability of the cabin he should have some recourse to prove that conditions were so severe it constituted a breach of the implied covenant of habitability.

The cruise line will not be inundated with frivilous claims for the reasons articulated above. However, the cruise line will also be motivated to take better precaution to avoid the problems. In cases of excessive noise like that of the OP this would mean taking steps to reduce the noise level or by disclosing the cabins as noisier than usual much like they disclose and discount outside cabins that have obstructed views. This will be an improvement for the benefit of the cruising public and go a long way to resolving the complaints like those of the OP. It will also require the cruise line to treat other serious defects more conscientiously. Giving 25 % off a future cruise just doesn't cut the mustard in some situations. A decent remedy for legitimate passenger complaints should not be totally within the cruise line's own self-interested discretion. No wonder some problems never get satisfactorily resolved.

[pmacher61]

Dont get me wrong, I agree about consumer/passenger protection to an extent. However in reading the supreme court opinions on applying ADA to ships, I think that it would be tough to get them to apply more progressive consumer protection legislation. Lets not forget teh industry will fight regulation to the furthest extent they can so they would spend years and likely push it through the courts until they get back to supreme court.

The reasonable man adapts himself to the world; the unreasonable one persists in trying to adapt the world to himself. Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.
George Bernard Shaw (http://www.quotationspage.com/quotes/George_Bernard_Shaw/), Man and Superman (1903) "Maxims for Revolutionists"
Irish dramatist & socialist (1856 - 1950)

[edmusic]

pmacher61 wrote: I have perused the entire thread and share the following thoughts.....Thank you very much. I finally feel like someone 'has my back' on this subject. You more eloquently described my exact feelings and ideas far more than I could do and yes, I was somewhat 'putoff' by BM responses to what I felt were my valid posts. If you go back and read my posts, you will see that you and I are in total agreement on this subject, yet the majority of 'HALcoholics' posting feel the onus is on the consumer to research ad infinitum every nuance regarding all aspects of cruising which I feel is the opposite of what the cruise line portrays and advertises: "Your cruise is a one-stop, all-inclusive luxury vacation and it can all be yours with just one phone call. Leave the details to us!"

[paulista1950]

" I can almost bet the thread will eventually get around to: "ship happens", "is the cruise company really responsible for mechanical failure?", "pax complain about odours because they want a free cruise" or some cabins are more comfortable on ships because some seats are more comfortable on airplanes."

Can somebody please explain me why fellow cruisers write stuff like this?
I fully understand (but don't agree) why a cruise line act defensive, but other passangers ???????:confused:

[paulista1950]

"It's hard to believe that there's no research done on booking a cruise in 2011. Maybe, but it's not hard to believe that customers will be ignorant that certain cabins are so poorly designed, so poorly maintained, or so poorly insulated that the noise level makes the cabin unreasonably loud, unreasonably hot or cold, or unreasonably smelly, etc."

I'll give an example which I hope will make it clear. If I book a room in a Hotel at LAX I realize there is an airport nearby (and galleys, night-clubs, etc under over in a ship when I book a stateroom) BUT I wouldn't expect to have noise level to be the same as if I were standing near a jet taking off. Would anyone?

[Gaucho39]

"It's hard to believe that there's no research done on booking a cruise in 2011. Maybe, but it's not hard to believe that customers will be ignorant that certain cabins are so poorly designed, so poorly maintained, or so poorly insulated that the noise level makes the cabin unreasonably loud, unreasonably hot or cold, or unreasonably smelly, etc."

I'll give an example which I hope will make it clear. If I book a room in a Hotel at LAX I realize there is an airport nearby (and galleys, night-clubs, etc under over in a ship when I book a stateroom) BUT I wouldn't expect to have noise level to be the same as if I were standing near a jet taking off. Would anyone?


I say BS. I've had the last cabin on the stern and the first cabin in the bow. Which means anchor chains in the bow, and rudders in the stern.

Jet noise- why should we believe everything we read?

[paulista1950]

" I've had the last cabin on the stern and the first cabin in the bow. Which means anchor chains in the bow, and rudders in the stern."
So what?

[Gaucho39]

" I've had the last cabin on the stern and the first cabin in the bow. Which means anchor chains in the bow, and rudders in the stern."
So what?

How trite of me, to mention the noise of anchor chains and rudders
When there are those who are in a cabin that sounds like their next to a jet.
My bad

[pmacher61]

How trite of me, to mention the noise of anchor chains and rudders
When there are those who are in a cabin that sounds like their next to a jet.
My bad
I can't make sense of your last posts. Exactly what's your point? That noise doesn't bother you as much as it does some others? OK. You are right. When I read posts that are snarky, nonsensical, unnecessarily combative, etc I wish I had writing skill analagous to Hanibal Lector's oratory skill. Then I could give Muggs his proper and final comeuppance.

[kazu]

Common sense has to prevail here - the op was unhappy - understandable.

However, I have seen lots of hotels where the rooms were not like the pictures, where the noise was unbearable, etc.

That doesn`t make it right. It`s just a fact.

nothing is perfect in this world. All the rooms can`t be perfect whether you are in a hotel or a cruise ship. If i book a hotel, I do research. I don`t want to regret handing over tons of money for misery. Same thing with a ship.

It doesn`t mean I will make the right choices but at least I tried.

The best thing for the op was to write HAL and let them know. See what they can do for them. For those of us (like myself) where the noises don`t bother us, then we have either become accustomed to cruising or we are not light sleepers. Frankly I find the sound of the wake very relaxing and unless someone is screaming next door dh & I have a great nights`sleep.

Everyone is different (thank heavens) and the world is better for it.

Each to their own and let the world go round. The op deserves understanding but the op also has to realize that others are happy to have this room.

and what we all have to remember is that we are very lucky to be able to cruise;)

[world~citizen]

...and what we all have to remember is that we are very lucky to be able to cruise;)

Very true.

Follow that line of reasoning though, if a tire goes flat after 200 km should we content ourselves with the good fortune to drive?

Much has been made of research and reviews. Sometimes the more you research a car or camera or cruise, the more difficult your decision becomes, because opinions box the compass.

Observing these threads for years now, experiences such as the one the OP presents are really twofold. You have the initial problem (too noisy cabins, flooding, odour etc.), then the secondary problem (I sought redress and they pointed me to a complaining wall.) Often pax seem to be more upset with cruiseline response to complaints than the substance of the complaint itself.

Why are cruiselines so indifferent? Well as has been suggested on this thread, regulation (or one sided cruise contracts) may be in part to blame. They are indifferent because they can be.

Cruise lines make a business decision to put revenue generating cabins in noisy locations. Then it appears the strategy they use to deal any resulting customer dissatisfaction is to expect pax to "suck it back". They measure the revenue these cabins generate against potential or expected customer dissatisfaction and CHOOSE to put pax in those cabins. It is easy to do this if pax option for redress is limited.

If a heater fails in my new car, I can drive it in winter because i don't mind the cold. My passengers, or other car owners may be quite uncomfortable. The point is, the heater reasonably should operate.

Same thing here. Some pax can sleep through an earthquake. Others are light sleepers. Reasonably the cabin that someone sells you should at least provide for the possibility of a nights sleep. It is, after all, a bedroom.

Regulation is a word that some people bristle at. Yet, if you look at the financial crisis we are in now it is clear that it is under regulation, worse, the removal of regulation that brought us here.

Cruise ships won't burst into flames should cruise contracts become a little less one sided. People say it will cost more to cruise - maybe. Its a very lucrative industry though and company suits will sharpen their pencils to keep pax away from other lines. Thats good. The market is meant to work for consumers too.:)

Smooth sailing...

[skyfire53]

I know what you mean about the galley....bowling ally right over your head. I took my first cruise last year at the spur of the moment with a group my son was going with. I had never heard of CC or I would have reseached it a little better...lol...despite the bowling ally effect, we had a wonderful cruise and cant wait till Dec when we take our next one. I had no Idea that some cabins were noiser than others, so it was a suprise but nothing that would allow me to not enjoy my cruise...I just put a pillow over my head when it got too loud and slept like a baby...I just told myself that it was a thunder storm and you know how well you can sleep in a good storm...lol....

[kjddrb]

I've never understood how ship designers often put the suites and higher class cabins right under, or next to noisy public areas (i.e.: the cafe or pool deck) where cleanup often occurs in "off hours". When we booked our very first cruise or TA advised us to always ensure there was at least one deck between us and a public space. Still doesn't help with the obnoxious, noisy neighbors nearby...

[vbmom87]

I know what you mean about the galley....bowling ally right over your head.

On our HAL Amsterdam cruise we were under the galley and the noise was mostly in the evening until about 10:30 p.m. We never had a problem getting to sleep or being awakened by the noise. Most of the time it seemed muffled, but occasionaly it it sounded like they dropped something and that would be louder. For the price we paid, we had no complaints. If I had this kind of noise in an expensive suite I would be a bit more miffed. For me it boils down to price. Plus, I knew what I was booking, which does make a difference. To be totally surprised could cause more disappointment. In the end we got our HH cabin for less than we originally booked an inside. My DH really wanted some kind of window, but we hadn't wanted to pay the price. When these HH's became available (I was alerted by a nice CC member) we jumped on it. We could have had one under the dining room, but we decided we would prefer to be the closest to midship as we could get. It worked out well for us, but I know others would have been unhappy.

[world~citizen]

There is another thread respecting the same problem on the Ryndam with reference to new policies which increase noise generated out of the galley all night.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1469658

Here is the first post in the thread:

Having read a passengers complaint about noise under the galley, we too were caught out on the Ryndam and fortunately we got moved to another cabin. The Officer we spoke to explained that it was new policy for crew to be working all night above our cabin, he did not agree with it and though that HAL and Travel Agents were advising passengers about the noise.

We met a couple on the Volendam with the same complaint, they could not be moved and had their cruise ruined. They were offered 200 dollars which only goes to prove that HAL is fully aware of the on going problem.

This is a nonsense being told do your home work, who would realise that crew would be working all night above your cabin with pots and pans being continually dropped throughout the night unless you were there.

I think this puts things in a new light.

Smooth sailing...

[goodearth]

This could be easily solved if ALL deck plans have ALL area's clearly labeled. Since nothing else on the ship is open all night........ bars, for example....it would be good to identify those area's that have extended hours that "could" affect passengers experience. Some may think that's too much info.........to me, it's simple disclosure and gets bonus points because then I AM responsible for what I book--there is full disclosure about the cabins/decks/area's on the ship!

[vbmom87]

This could be easily solved if ALL deck plans have ALL area's clearly labeled. Since nothing else on the ship is open all night........ bars, for example....it would be good to identify those area's that have extended hours that "could" affect passengers experience. Some may think that's too much info.........to me, it's simple disclosure and gets bonus points because then I AM responsible for what I book--there is full disclosure about the cabins/decks/area's on the ship!

The thing is, the cruiseline brochures and websites do show the deck plans. The empty spaces are not identified, which I agree would be ideal. However, everyone who chooses a cabin has the resources to see what each deck is comprised of. It is just that when booking a cruise, especially a first one, people don't think of everything. They are often so excited to cruise after hearing how wonderful it is, that they can't even think what questions they should ask. I still hold the TAs responsible. Whether you are booking through the cruiseline or through a TA, the representative should be helping guide you in your cabin selection and giving you the pros and cons of the different categories and locations. I read of way too many people who just leave it up the TA to select a cabin without their input. Many first time cruisers are after the best deal, and sometimes that means a less than desireable cabin.

[Daytona_MAc]

You just never know, really. We booked a balcony on the Zuiderdam (HA) because the price was great. We had the first cabin, starboard side, on the Upper Promenade deck. I was unsure when I saw where we were when we boarded, but the cruise (to Panama Canal) was wonderful, and that first cabin was great. There was no barrier between our balcony and the bow of the ship. so underway we have plenty of space, a good breeze, and almost a 170 degree view instead of the usual 90. There was some noise during anchoring caused by a flying bridge just below us which folded out and down for crew, but overall, it was a great cruise. I would book that cabin, or the port side one, again. Yet it would not have been my first choice if I had gone to the deck plans first.

The others travelers are correct - you need to get inside information. That's what Cruise Critic excels at, so make regular visits even when you are not booked for a cruise. You just never know what you might learn that might help you later.

[Down-Unders]

You just never know, really. We booked a balcony on the Zuiderdam (HA) because the price was great. We had the first cabin, starboard side, on the Upper Promenade deck. I was unsure when I saw where we were when we boarded, but the cruise (to Panama Canal) was wonderful, and that first cabin was great. There was no barrier between our balcony and the bow of the ship. so underway we have plenty of space, a good breeze, and almost a 170 degree view instead of the usual 90. There was some noise during anchoring caused by a flying bridge just below us which folded out and down for crew, but overall, it was a great cruise. I would book that cabin, or the port side one, again. Yet it would not have been my first choice if I had gone to the deck plans first.

The others travelers are correct - you need to get inside information. That's what Cruise Critic excels at, so make regular visits even when you are not booked for a cruise. You just never know what you might learn that might help you later.


Well said!

[Tamaracboy]

Cruise Critic regular weekly email newsletter received today has a link to this very thread with the title: Beware of cabins under the galley!
So now many more will be aware of this.

r.

[lobodog]

Our first HAL cruise was a 14 day cruisetour to Alaska.
The last 4 days were on the ship and we got a good last minute deal on a inside cabin. We figured we could do an inside for 4 days. When we got to the ship we checked out our cabin and is was a very nice outside cabin.
Thank you HAL.

Then there was the Mexico Riviera on Princess. We book a balcony thru our travel agent and got a cabin under the Lido deck & the food court. We heard chairs and table being moved all night.

Now we always check the deck plans and make sure we get cabins above and below.
Looking forward to our next cruise.

[Barbydoll95]

You want to make sure that there are no bunks for 3rd & 4th passengers as they make the bed very awkarrd to get into if you have it setup as a Queen size. We ran across this on the Golden Princess. We made sure that when we booked on the Emerald Princess that we didn't have any bunks.:mad: Zaandam - Holland America
We were in cabin 3389 - lower Promenade deck. Our cruise was almost ruined because of our lack of sleep caused by having to listen to the galley noise all night long. The galley was above on the 4th floor next to the Rotterdam Restaurant. We expected noise such the ship, people etc. This was unacceptable noise- just extreme and constant. Holland America is very aware of the hell their passengers go through when booked under the galley. And yet, they still book people there. I have seen reviews of this very problem from the year 2000. Surely they could try and soundproof the floors and have their staff wear soft soled shoes only. The carts rolled around like rolling thunder and the staff walked around all night. It sounded like bowling balls on top of your head. I begged to move, but they said the ship was full. It is apparent that the staff and the front desk are very used to dealing with the constant complaints regarding this stretch of cabins. They gave us earplugs but that did not help. Had we been on land, we would have moved hotels whether or not we received a refund. Here you are held captive on a ship. The PR person sent us a note saying they would “monitor the situation” So basically they have been “monitoring the situation” since the inception of the ship!! So disappointing for our 1st cruise. Needless to say, our last cruise with Holland America. Now that we understand the importance of cabin placement,this will not happen again. I have booked a cruise to LA with Princess this September, and we picked out the cabin – made sure it was placed between cabins only. I even phoned Princess to ensure we would be able to sleep at least no public rooms or galleys anywhere near. Well, the rest of the trip was great, food was lovely and the entertainment was great. The staff are amazing!! – we love the cruising experience except for the unfortunate cabin we had. We indeed learned you need to be careful about your cabin with every cruise line.

[VioletHorse]

You want to make sure that there are no bunks for 3rd & 4th passengers as they make the bed very awkarrd to get into if you have it setup as a Queen size. We ran across this on the Golden Princess. We made sure that when we booked on the Emerald Princess that we didn't have any bunks.

That's useful information if you're sailing on Princess, but not so much if you're sailing on HAL. Staterooms on HAL are generally larger and configured differently than Princess ships. We sailed in a quad balcony room on HAL and did not have any problems getting in or out of the queen size bed with the pull down bed in place. However, getting to the balcony with the sofa bed pulled out was a bit more difficult :p.

[zorrosuncle]

Greetings --

I had this occur on the Westerdam. I carefully checked the layout for a galley before selecting the room, but when I boarded, there turned out to be a galley over my head. Noise all night long. The schematic in the glossy distributed by the line, did not show the galley -- it only showed a white space even though the schematic showed other galleys where you might expect them. But the official coast guard schematic found in the hallways clearly had the galley. Big discrepancy. I would never have booked the room if I had known.

I might add that whenever I cruise, I now take a pair of noise suppressors for my ears, similar to the industrial quality ones you see on the people on the airport tarmacs. You can get them at Sears, Home Depot, etc. A little uncomfortable, but it works. However, I would never hear a ship's alarm, if it went off.

It might be nice if someone would maintain a list of rooms by ship which have noise problems.

ZU

[kazu]

Greetings --

I had this occur on the Westerdam. I carefully checked the layout for a galley before selecting the room, but when I boarded, there turned out to be a galley over my head. Noise all night long. The schematic in the glossy distributed by the line, did not show the galley -- it only showed a white space even though the schematic showed other galleys where you might expect them. But the official coast guard schematic found in the hallways clearly had the galley. Big discrepancy. I would never have booked the room if I had known.

I might add that whenever I cruise, I now take a pair of noise suppressors for my ears, similar to the industrial quality ones you see on the people on the airport tarmacs. You can get them at Sears, Home Depot, etc. A little uncomfortable, but it works. However, I would never hear a ship's alarm, if it went off.

It might be nice if someone would maintain a list of rooms by ship which have noise problems.

ZU

I am sure if people would report this to IRL Joanie she would incorporate it into her HAL info (Joanie, I hope I am not speaking out of turn:eek:).

She has a fantastic website with pictures of various staterooms, info, etc.

It is a sticky at the top of the HAL page. There are several websites that also review ships and the decks and have 'warnings' for certain decks which can help set the alarm bells off.

I have found that most TA's do not have the knowledge and unless you have a really good one, it becomes buyer beware unfortunately - just like hotels (after all you want to sleep) - you can discover that even the best hotels have 'bad' rooms - those are the ones I want to avoid - especially after a long transatlantic flight :)

[IRL_Joanie]

I am sure if people would report this to IRL Joanie she would incorporate it into her HAL info (Joanie, I hope I am not speaking out of turn:eek:).

She has a fantastic website with pictures of various staterooms, info, etc.

It is a sticky at the top of the HAL page. There are several websites that also review ships and the decks and have 'warnings' for certain decks which can help set the alarm bells off.

I have found that most TA's do not have the knowledge and unless you have a really good one, it becomes buyer beware unfortunately - just like hotels (after all you want to sleep) - you can discover that even the best hotels have 'bad' rooms - those are the ones I want to avoid - especially after a long transatlantic flight :)


Not speaking out of turn at all!!

This is exactly why I started the HAL Staterooms/Cabins website back in August 2009. I want people to know not only the good but also the bad about every stateroom on HAL.

All I need is people to send me the info!! I cannot just grab it off these boards, I need them to give me their Ship, Stateroom Number, description of the stateroom, GOOD AND BAD, date of cruising (month & Year) and their CC name (I will withhold CC member name if requested) and photos when possible.

It comes down to being able to if you want to let people know just how good or how miserable your stateroom was let people know.

Joanie

[kazu]

Joanie - your site can be a great help to people when selecting their cabins. It would be great if more people would contribute - especially those who have had issues. it would be of benefit to everyone. Thanks again for your site and your work - I know it has been a big help to us:) You don't have pictures of our room on the P'dam so I will be sending them when we return;)

[Hlitner]

You can never be sure about cabins. We recently completed a 41 day Prinsendam cruise where we had selected an outside cabin up near the bow. We know the ship (was on it the previous year for 42 days) and knew this cabin was over the part of the crew deck that is normally unused space used only when they use the large hatch at ports. One night, when we were trying to go to sleep, we heard a lot of noise under our cabin that sounded like a party. A few minutes later we heard what sounded like a ping pong game. Finally, as the noise continued at 1 am, DW called the guest relations desk to ask about the noise and they said they would have security check it out. About 5 min later we heard some loud voices (beneath our cabin) and a short time later we could hear a sound that seemed like is was a large table being dragged across the floor. A few days later we were told that yes, some of the crew had set-up a Ping Pong Table in that large empty area (without permission) and were having group ping pong tournys late at night. We all had a laugh about the incident.

Hank

[Herb44]

We've sailed on Carnival, the old Renaissance, NCL, HAL, and the RCCI family (Celebrity, Azamara & Royal Caribbean). Your points are perfectly valid and need to be strongly endorsed. Each ship has particular points of noise that an inexperienced cruiser will hate. The experience with drunks are the exception that further emphasizes the accuracy of your opinion. Surviving drunks will vary greatly, depending on the line. Our experience, however, is that the drunks on Carnival are younger, noisier, and less likely to improve when there is intervention. While we experienced some drunks on the other lines, all were very easy to resolve. For other first-timers: research and ask the experience of other on Cruise Critic!

[Boatdrill]

:mad: Zaandam - Holland America
So disappointing for our 1st cruise. Needless to say, our last cruise with Holland America. ....., the rest of the trip was great, food was lovely and the entertainment was great. The staff are amazing!! – we love the cruising experience except for the unfortunate cabin we had. We indeed learned you need to be careful about your cabin with every cruise line.



Sorry...not understanding why you will not sail with HAL again.

[Boatdrill]

Hello,

I never asked for an upgrade and was never told over the phone that I could receive one - Remember - 1st cruise!! I have done a lot of traveling and there is no way in the world that it is acceptable putting passengers under a noisy galley. One would never put up with this in hotel, why would you at sea. The cruise line cannot control many things I'm sure regarding noise, but they can surely control where they put passengers to sleep knowing full well that they will be unhappy and not able to sleep. Disgusting! That is not good service by any stretch of the imagination.



I agree 100%.

[cd]

Eighth cruise with HAL last spring on the Ryndam -Booked inside cabin K407 - marked no upgrade as we always do with Hal/ Princess and Celebrity . Upon boarding found we were upgraded to K376 ( under the kitchen ) .If you like to sleep between midnight and 2 am do not book this cabin

[vbmom87]

Eighth cruise with HAL last spring on the Ryndam -Booked inside cabin K407 - marked no upgrade as we always do with Hal/ Princess and Celebrity . Upon boarding found we were upgraded to K376 ( under the kitchen ) .If you like to sleep between midnight and 2 am do not book this cabin


Did you attempt to object? If so, what were you told?

[cd]

We did not object until after the first night as did not realize that we were under the kitchen - no empty cabins - learnt ship had been oversold. After a couple of nights talked to front desk - next 2-3 nights it would be quieter then back to the " rolling carts ' and other noises above . We did receive a credit on our account at the end of the 20 days but would much rather have had more sleep and and an enjoyable cruise .

The moral is if upon boarding you find you have been upgraded after saying no -check what is above you before even having lunch or unpacking.

[Tamaracboy]

****** SNIP ******
The moral is if upon boarding you find you have been upgraded after saying no -check what is above you before even having lunch or unpacking.

There should be a 2nd moral to this story, especially for 20 days (nights):

If the "credit" received were not for the FULL cost of the trip, OR 100% off another cruise of equal duration, I would simply sleep at the front desk (possibly with a sign as to why), PLUS tell everyone in the MDR, Lido, Pool Deck, Theater, Casino, etc. of the situation AND that the original reservation was marked "Do NOT Upgrade".

This was 100% HAL's fault so the credit should be 100%, simple math.
After all, IF the ship were oversold, everyone, prior to sailing, usually gets a "buy-out" offer that is sweetened enough to be tempting, so HAL is already loosing money by overselling !
AND, do not forget that someone ended up enjoying your quiet cabin which you had marked No Upgrade !

The fundamental question: is no one at HAL, Seattle or onboard, capable of admitting to their error and correcting it to the customer's satisfaction ? ? ! !

See post #202 on this thread for an alternative way to resolve things.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30313330&postcount=202

JMHO,
r.
PS: No flames even read :p

[vbmom87]

There should be a 2nd moral to this story, especially for 20 days (nights):

If the "credit" received were not for the FULL cost of the trip, OR 100% off another cruise of equal duration, I would simply sleep at the front desk (possibly with a sign as to why), PLUS tell everyone in the MDR, Lido, Pool Deck, Theater, Casino, etc. of the situation AND that the original reservation was marked "Do NOT Upgrade".

This was 100% HAL's fault so the credit should be 100%, simple math.
After all, IF the ship were oversold, everyone, prior to sailing, usually gets a "buy-out" offer that is sweetened enough to be tempting, so HAL is already loosing money by overselling !
AND, do not forget that someone ended up enjoying your quiet cabin which you had marked No Upgrade !

The fundamental question: is no one at HAL, Seattle or onboard, capable of admitting to their error and correcting it to the customer's satisfaction ? ? ! !

See post #202 on this thread for an alternative way to resolve things.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30313330&postcount=202

JMHO,
r.
PS: No flames even read :p

I like the idea of sleeping at the front desk. ;) There is no excuse for upgrading someone who asked not be upgraded. If due to some error, the cruise line finds it necessary to change someone's cabin, then it should be discussed with those who booked the cabin. If they must be moved, it should be with their consent, and definitely should be a nice upgrade.

We had a cabin under the galley and it did not bother us. In our case, the worst noise was over by the time we went to bed and it never awakened us. However, I fully understand that it would bother someone else. We felt we got a good deal on the cabin, and we did know it was under the galley at the time of booking. I think the cruise lines need to add another symbol to their key. Cabins that might experience unusual noise or vibration should be marked in some way on the deck plans. That way they have leverage when someone complains. Also, if you have a guarantee you can better see what your risks are.

[grandmaR]

The moral is if upon boarding you find you have been upgraded after saying no -check what is above you before even having lunch or unpacking.

We did object to an upgrade when we got to the desk to register. Before we even boarded. Did no good. They refused to give us our original cabin which we booked and which was NOT a guarantee.

In our case, we didn't know where the upgraded cabin was, but we had booked a specific cabin for a b2b so we wouldn't have to move. They upgraded us to a nice ocean view and were surprised that we objected. Their 'fix' was to upgrade the second cruise to a cabin under the kitchen but on the same corridor. We didn't know at the time that it was under the kitchen of course - standing there at the counter to check in.

They said that it was our fault for not checking before we left home.

[vbmom87]

See post #202 on this thread for an alternative way to resolve things.
http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30313330&postcount=202



Would you mind explaining to me how you get the link to actually appear as the post number you want it to? Thanks.

[50cruiser]

Having been on over 53 cruises I have learned to pick my cabin directly with cruise co. I dont up-grade . I check box NO UPGRADE. I look whats below and above me. Once I have everything the way I want I will switch my booking to a travel co to get the perks. CARL

[RuthC]

Would you mind explaining to me how you get the link to actually appear as the post number you want it to? Thanks.
Click on the post number in the upper right hand corner, just to the left of the red triangle. This creates a new window consisting of that one single post. Then, use the URL of that post as the link by making a copy of it.
Close out the new window, and post the link in a reply on the original thread.

Did that make sense?

[LynnTTT]

I booked a J inside room, J1053 I think. However, the TA did leave it as "upgrade possible". When I check my reservation with HA, it shows the J category, but not the room. We've never had a balcony room which would be nice. But, could they switch me to another inside cabin and call it an upgrade? Or give us a smaller outside stateroom? Several people say they love this particular room . And we've never had a problem with inside cabins- quiet, dark and usually great rooms.

Maybe I should contact HA to settle it?

[localady]

I booked a J inside room, J1053 I think. However, the TA did leave it as "upgrade possible". When I check my reservation with HA, it shows the J category, but not the room. We've never had a balcony room which would be nice. But, could they switch me to another inside cabin and call it an upgrade? Or give us a smaller outside stateroom? Several people say they love this particular room . And we've never had a problem with inside cabins- quiet, dark and usually great rooms.

Maybe I should contact HA to settle it?

If your reservation has no cabin number attached but you asked for a specific cabin, you need to contact your TA (if you used one) or HAL (if you did not) and confirm you have that cabin. I suspect you may just be booked as a guarantee if there is no specific cabin number listed on your reservation. Good luck!

[Megsie1000]

I booked a J inside room, J1053 I think. However, the TA did leave it as "upgrade possible". When I check my reservation with HA, it shows the J category, but not the room. We've never had a balcony room which would be nice. But, could they switch me to another inside cabin and call it an upgrade? Or give us a smaller outside stateroom? Several people say they love this particular room . And we've never had a problem with inside cabins- quiet, dark and usually great rooms.

Maybe I should contact HA to settle it?

What ship?

We booked a J cabin on the Main Deck on the Eurodam and marked "NO UPGRADE!" I don't want to be upgraded to an ocean-view because they are much smaller. The window would not make up for the lack of space for us, so we feel strongly about staying there. Unless they want to upgrade us to a suite (Yeah, right :rolleyes:) we aren't going anywhere.

[innlady1]

I always book a specific stateroom after carefully pouring over the Deck Plans. And, I always tell the TA, "No Upgrade" please. I would be ticked if we checked in and the stateroom had been switched. I guess I'd ask for a credit...not sure what I'd do!

Any ideas from people who've been through this?

[startwin]

Now that I've completed a cruise in a cabin under the galley, I can report that it is excessively noisy at times. If you are sensitive to noise, avoid like the plague. DH and I were OK, just a few grumbles now and then as much galley work is done early morning, late afternoon and around 11 pm. There's some kind of machine that pounds away, not sure what it is. Our cabin was 3370 on the Zaandam.

So I do agree now that these cabins should be sold at a discounted price - or only sold to deaf people:D

And before anyone blames me - the passenger - for taking a cabin in that location, give it a break. I've got quite a few cruises under my belt, and sometimes you take what you can get when booking late. And for a newbie, well their TA or HAL rep should take better care of their needs.

[RuthC]

I booked a J inside room, J1053 I think. However, the TA did leave it as "upgrade possible". When I check my reservation with HA, it shows the J category, but not the room. We've never had a balcony room which would be nice. But, could they switch me to another inside cabin and call it an upgrade? Or give us a smaller outside stateroom? Several people say they love this particular room . And we've never had a problem with inside cabins- quiet, dark and usually great rooms.

Maybe I should contact HA to settle it?
I concur with Localady that if you believe you booked a specific cabin, and the cabin number is not listed on your account, then you should contact your TA, or HAL if that's who you booked with, and have this checked. The J-cabins on other decks are significantly smaller.

Now, you asked if you could be upgraded to another inside. Yes, you could. There are I-category inside cabins. These are nice cabins, but may not be what you want. You could also be upgraded to an outside, but it could easily be an obstructed view cabin.
Do not expect to by upgraded from an inside to a balcony cabin. It's easier to win PowerBall.

The J-cabins on Main Deck are very large, and well-located. If it were my choice, then I would have my reservation marked "no upgrade". As a matter of fact, that's exactly what I have done several times. I love those cabins.

[vbmom87]

Click on the post number in the upper right hand corner, just to the left of the red triangle. This creates a new window consisting of that one single post. Then, use the URL of that post as the link by making a copy of it.
Close out the new window, and post the link in a reply on the original thread.

Did that make sense?

Yes Ruth, perfect sense for how to post the single post. Thank you so much. I always say a good day is one in which I learn something new. Thanks so much.

I would also like to know how to go about having a link go right to the post you are interested in, but you would still be able to see the other posts before and after by scrolling. I have some saved links that do that. However, most take me to the beginning of the page.

[Globaliser]

I would also like to know how to go about having a link go right to the post you are interested in, but you would still be able to see the other posts before and after by scrolling.Do what RuthC says.

Then, in the top right hand corner of that single post, you'll see a link with the name of the thread. Click that. It will open that post in its proper place within its thread. Then use that URL.

So, for example, your post to which I'm replying gives the following:-

Single post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30727693&postcount=238 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30727693&postcount=238)
Post within thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=30727693#post30727693 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=30727693#post30727693)

[gelo7]

You loved the HAL experience, next pick another cabin.

[vbmom87]

Do what RuthC says.

Then, in the top right hand corner of that single post, you'll see a link with the name of the thread. Click that. It will open that post in its proper place within its thread. Then use that URL.

So, for example, your post to which I'm replying gives the following:-

Single post: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30727693&postcount=238 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showpost.php?p=30727693&postcount=238)
Post within thread: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=30727693#post30727693 (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=30727693#post30727693)



Thank you so much!!! I knew it couldn't be difficult, just couldn't quite figure it out.

[Globaliser]

You're welcome!

You can see the format of those links. If you know the post number and the post count number, you can actually construct the URLs for other posts as well without having to go through all that clicking.

[grandmaR]

Yes you could be upgraded to another inside cabin. On our first cruise we were upgraded to an inside cabin but higher up in the ship. I don't know what was an upgrade about it. It seemed about the same to me, and it was a very rough trip so the motion up there was greater than it would have been lower down. We didn't pay any extra though.

On our last cruise we booked really late (like the day before final payment was due), and did not get our cabin number until almost the last minute. It was under the kitchen which we have had before and did not think it was too bad. But we were offered an upgrade to a Veranda for a small amount of additional money, so knowing what we knew, we took the upgrade.

At the time we got the original upgrade on HAL for the B2B cruise, our travel agent did not take care of us, but we were using the lowest bidder on an internet site. We did not like that agent even before the cruise started and that was probably part of the problem - we had a different agent for the second part of the cruise and she didn't do her job either because she knew we were doing b2b. We have an agent now that does take care of us.

[KimmyUK]

Can you tell me what cabin you were in. I have just booked 2 elderly relatives on HAL Ryndam cabin 398 Your help would be appreciated.
Thank you.

[Typhoon1]

Someone had to occupy those cabins.

Do you think they are going to leave them empty and not collect any revenue from that space?

Or build a ship and make that area storage?

[CowPrincess]

Can you tell me what cabin you were in. I have just booked 2 elderly relatives on HAL Ryndam cabin 398 Your help would be appreciated.
Thank you.

That cabin is under the Main Dining Room, not under a galley. It is a nice location IMHO.