Question for those who've been on the Zuiderdam

[Machforce1]

We're sailing this Saturday and I have a few simple little questions. Hopefully I don't sound silly. Okay, here goes:

1. I have absolutely no intention on dining in the dining room on formal nights. What do men normally wear on non-formal nights? Are khaki pants, collared shirt (no tie!) and dress shoes appropriate?

2. Regarding Half Moon Cay - do you have to rent those clamshells or are they free? If they are free, how is it decided who gets one? There doesn't appear to be enough of them for everyone who might want one.

3. When you are in port (St. Thomas/Tortola/Nassau), are there enough taxis to take most everyone where they want to go? What's the best beach in Tortola to hang out for the day for a couple who loves beautiful beaches?

Thanks guys and gals! :)

[jhannah]

1. Yes, that will be fine for dining in the Lido.
2. You have to reserve them at a fee. Your TA can arrange with HAL ship services.
3. Taxis should be no problem, although you won't really need one in Nassau or St. Thomas unless you want to travel away from the town area to a beach. I haven't been to Tortola, so someone else will have to answer that for you.

Enjoy your trip!

[ekerr19]

1. I have absolutely no intention on dining in the dining room on formal nights. What do men normally wear on non-formal nights? Are khaki pants, collared shirt (no tie!) and dress shoes appropriate?


Depends on whether it is "casual" night or "informal" night... on casual night, Dockers and a collared shirt are fine. On informal night a jacket is requested... you don't have to wear a tie with it - just the jacket.

My DH usually wears a nice knit "collarless" shirt, slacks and his sport jacket.

If you are eating in the Lido instead of the D/R - khakis and a collared shirt are fine.

[dakrewser]

Do note that the dress request is for "the evening," not just the dining room. It's expected you will follow the dress code in the lounges, bars, casino, etc. even if you don't eat in the dining room.

Have a great cruise!

[Machforce1]

Thanks so much for all your help. I'm assuming that the 'Lido' is not the main dining area? Is that correct?

What's the name of the buffet area? :)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Depends on whether it is "casual" night or "informal" night... on casual night, Dockers and a collared shirt are fine. On informal night a jacket is requested... you don't have to wear a tie with it - just the jacket.

My DH usually wears a nice knit "collarless" shirt, slacks and his sport jacket.

If you are eating in the Lido instead of the D/R - khakis and a collared shirt are fine.

does that mean that if I show up in the dining room on semi formal nights with dockers and a golf shirt I'll be refused service?

Bill

[sail7seas]

We have seen Maitre d's request a gentleman return to his cabin and get his jacket. If he does not have one, Maitre d' might request he dine in Lido.

Admittedly, the Matire d's are not all doing that. But how can you know in advance. I would recommend you bring along a jacket. As long as you have brought it, you may as well wear it.

Or, if Lido is your preference you can avoid the jacket issue for dinner, however, DAKrewser, correctly pointed out the dress code is for the evening.....not just dinner.

[dakrewser]

does that mean that if I show up in the dining room on semi formal nights with dockers and a golf shirt I'll be refused service?

Bill

One would hope so. The "buffet" (which is much more than that) is the Lido.

I'd also suggest you plan on showing up for lifeboat drill on the day you board.

Happy Cruising!

[doone]

I feel sad when I hear people don't want to dine in the dining room on formal nights. Its such a wonderful experience, if possible, please re-consider and go to the dining room on formal evenings, its truly part of the whole cruise experience. If you truly don't want to dine on formal nights in the dining room then the Lido is a great option.

[Cathy p]

We will be on that cruise with you. DH does not own a tux but will have his funeral suit on. He looks great in it and I am sure you would also. There is nothing fancy about us, just hard working folks. My DH has been a nuclear pipefitter for 40 years so his ties are at a premium also. However, I think we can squeeze by for two formal nights. Enjoy the company that is what we hope to do.:)

[RayinIllinois]

Doone, in reading your post you seem like a real up person. We will be sailing with you March 12 on the Zui. Hope to see you at the black jack table.

[jcrandle]

We have seen Maitre d's request a gentleman return to his cabin and get his jacket. If he does not have one, Maitre d' might request he dine in Lido.

Admittedly, the Matire d's are not all doing that. But how can you know in advance. I would recommend you bring along a jacket. As long as you have brought it, you may as well wear it.

Or, if Lido is your preference you can avoid the jacket issue for dinner, however, DAKrewser, correctly pointed out the dress code is for the evening.....not just dinner.To better use packing space, a navy suit (with dress shirt and tie) can double for informal nights as the jacket, with open neck dress shirt and dockers.

[spcl4cs_gal]

Doone, in reading your post you seem like a real up person. We will be sailing with you March 12 on the Zui. Hope to see you at the black jack table.

Hmmm did someone just mention black jack????? ;)

[Machforce1]

Anybody else going to be sailing on the Zuiderdam this Saturday? I can't wait! :p

[cruzingqueen]

3. When you are in port (St. Thomas/Tortola/Nassau), are there enough taxis to take most everyone where they want to go? What's the best beach in Tortola to hang out for the day for a couple who loves beautiful beaches?

Thanks guys and gals! :)

I've been to Tortola twice and loved it. Not much in the way of downtown or shopping so you do need to book an excursion or head to the beach. The first time, I took the Tortola Highlights tour ($29) for 3 hours and you end up at Cane Garden Beach for about one hour. I really enjoyed the tour too, but loved the beach. This time, I just grabbed one of the shuttles ($6 per person) and went to Cane Garden again. It's beautiful and normally peaceful, but when I was there, the Westerdam was there too and had quite a lively bunch on board! So the beach was packed. I didn't do snorkeling or diving or anything so I can't comment on how this beach would be for there. They have all kinds of restaurants, bars and souvenirs here too. You can use the beach chairs for $5 each.

Enjoy....I'm having withdrawals and I just came back from the Z Saturday!

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I have a tux for the 2 formal nights but I won't be bringing a jacket. If they want to escort me out of the dining room so be it I guess.

I must be one of those riff raff y'all wanna keep off HAL. :(

I had better go back to Princess.

Bill

[Cathy p]

From what I have heard as long as you don't wear jeans to dinner they won't kick you back to Princess. Enjoy:)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Cathy,
I see you are cruising on the Zuiderdam 3/5. Bon Voyage! :)

Let me know about the dress code when you get back please. If they are that rigid about your attire I might just try to talk the rest of our group into canceling and changing cruiselines. :confused:

Bill

[Machforce1]

Bill, I totally agree with you. I'm not going to either of the formal nights and I will not be wearing a jacket to dinner on the non-formal nights. If they choose to escort me out of the dining area even though I'll be looking sharp, then so be it. It's not like we'll be showing up in jeans and tennis shoes. Hey, maybe you guys should sit with us and we'll get tossed out together? LOL! ;) +

[dakrewser]

Bill, I totally agree with you. I'm not going to either of the formal nights and I will not be wearing a jacket to dinner on the non-formal nights. If they choose to escort me out of the dining area even though I'll be looking sharp, then so be it. It's not like we'll be showing up in jeans and tennis shoes. Hey, maybe you guys should sit with us and we'll get tossed out together? LOL! ;) +

I'm puzzled why you would choose to sail on the Zuiderdam if you find it's policies objectionable?

[dinscoe68]

Our 10 year old son is choosing not to participate in formal night. Does anyone know if Club Hal is open during those times? I'm assuming he can dress like a kid and go there to hang out while we grown ups get gussied up. :)


Also, I'm a little confused on the dress code for informal nights. Please help me, are jackets required even on those nights? Can jeans be worn in the Lido on informal nights? Sorry to sound stupid, but I want to be sure and "fit in" and follow the rules.

Thanks!!

[Cathy p]

MACHFORCE1, we are meeting with some other 3/5 Zui cruiser at 5:15 in the Oak Room. I was told it is up by the crow's nest. We would love for you to join us. Seabiscuit is wearing her New England Patriot's Hat....no jacket required. Hope to see you there and anyone else that has not sighned up on the roll call. :)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

I'm puzzled why you would choose to sail on the Zuiderdam if you find it's policies objectionable?

Dave,
I don't know about Machforce1 but I picked the Zuiderdam for the itinerary. We have cruised to the Western and Eastern caribbean about 10 times now. I can't do it anymore.
When I saw Tortola (we want to go to Virgin Gorda to the Baths), and Half Moon Cay it sounded like something different. There is not another ship out there that does anything but the same old, same old routes otherwise I'd be on that ship.
I have no problem complying with formal night but I don't have a jacket (that fits) and I'm not going out to buy one for 2 nights. It'll never get worn again as no other cruise line that I've sailed has semi formal nights anymore.

I'm sorry if my appearance on semi formal nights ruins the ambiance for some. :(

Bill

[Machforce1]

Dave, partly for the same reasons as Bill listed. I didn't sign up for the cruise to participate in the adult costume parties. I liked the itinerary and wanted to visit Baths and check out Nassau. Renting tuxedos and buying expensive clothing JUST to simply put food in my face is a ridiculous concept to me. I realize some people really like getting all decked out just to go eat, but not me. I'm on the cruise to check out the places where the boat will be docking. In fact, the less time I have to spend on the ship, the better. That's not to say there's anything wrong with hanging around on the ship the entire time and dressing up just to go eat, but that's just not what we want to do. It's all about preference.

And I mean, c'mon, do you honestly think that I would be hurting anything by wearing the same attire as everyone else minus the jacket? Seriously, it's dinner, not a world leader summit. And if the dining room is filled full of people who get offended by something as ridiculous as not wearing a jacket to stuff food in your face, then I'd rather eat in the Lido anyway.

Bill and I are destined to get tossed out of dinner at least one night when we're there. Lighten up guys...it's vacation, not boot camp! LMAO!!

[Machforce1]

Dinscoe, I don't think you can wear jeans to the Lido on any night. You can wear them for lunch and during the day, but in the evenings, I'm almost 100% positive that jeans cannot be worn to the Lido. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

[jhannah]

I'm puzzled why you would choose to sail on the Zuiderdam if you find it's policies objectionable? Likewise. You're right ... this isn't a summit of world leaders. But it is the policy of the cruise line that dress codes are specified for each night of the cruise. They are there because the vast majority of passengers want and enjoy them. Visiting the Lido on formal night is a great option, and will be the most appropriate one for you.

[ekerr19]

Our 10 year old son is choosing not to participate in formal night. Does anyone know if Club Hal is open during those times? I'm assuming he can dress like a kid and go there to hang out while we grown ups get gussied up. :)


Also, I'm a little confused on the dress code for informal nights. Please help me, are jackets required even on those nights? Can jeans be worn in the Lido on informal nights? Sorry to sound stupid, but I want to be sure and "fit in" and follow the rules.

Thanks!!

A lot of it depends on your dinner time. We've always had late seating and our daughter chose not to dine with us so she could particiapte in Club HAL activities, which occur after early seating. One of us would either take her to the Lido or we would let her order room service (which both my kids love doing) - we usually do request the kids dress and dine with us at least one formal dinner. I like to see the kids dress up and come to the D/R. They both always dress in accordance to the dress of the day, but don't always attend dinner in the D/R.

Personally, (and I don't wish to sound snobbish here, because I'm not) I would avoid wearing jeans during the evening. I nice pair of dockers or casual slacks are fine and probably what most men/women wear. Most of the teens I've seen are wearing jeans on casual night, but they tend to stay under the radar and out of public lounges, etc.

[bookworm0911]

Our 10 year old son is choosing not to participate in formal night. Does anyone know if Club Hal is open during those times? I'm assuming he can dress like a kid and go there to hang out while we grown ups get gussied up. :)
Thanks!!
:eek: Hmmm.... When did 10 year olds start getting choices in what they participate? I must have missed that announcement since I was a kid. :D

Seriously, I think that that age is the perfect time to start learning how to dress for a grown-up occassion, good manners, and all that good stuff. A cruise provides an opportunity that doesn't come around that often. It's just for a few hours and he wouldn't have to wear a tux.

[Illbcruzn4life]

as many have stated when you dress for dinner you are expected to remain dressed that way for the duration of the evening. Does that pertain to kids too? If my kids are wearing suits and dresses on formal night are they expected to stay dressed that way at the HAL kids camp? If they change will they be told they are not welcome at the kids camp? Just want to make sure so the kids don't get embarassed or humiliated.
Illbcruzn4life

[ekerr19]

as many have stated when you dress for dinner you are expected to remain dressed that way for the duration of the evening. Does that pertain to kids too? If my kids are wearing suits and dresses on formal night are they expected to stay dressed that way at the HAL kids camp? If they change will they be told they are not welcome at the kids camp? Just want to make sure so the kids don't get embarassed or humiliated.
Illbcruzn4life

Our kids stayed dressed - and a majority of them did, but some didn't. I don't think it's as big of deal with kids. I've never heard of anyone being turned away from Club HAL because they weren't in accordance with the dress code.

Some nights there may be a "slumber party" where the kids get to wear their robes, jammies and slippers and watch a movie - or a pool party with swimming. They usually have a tie-dye t-shirt night where the tie-dye their Club HAL shirts and I remember my daughter changing into shorts, flip flops and an old t-shirt for that...

I wouldn't stress too much... :) after all it is a cruise, not a night at the opera (though some folks would like to make it seem as such!) I'm sure your kids will have a great time, especially meeting other kids, our kids always do. Also, you can always check with the Club HAL staff once on board.

[ekerr19]

Also, here is a link to our cruise last year (Spring Break) on the Maasdam. As you can see, the kids dressed in all different ways. In one of the first photos, you can see our son Kyle stayed in his jacket and tie and two of his new friends changed after dinner... no one minded. :)

http://community.webshots.com/album/216960440UMlXhE

[sail7seas]

To better use packing space, a navy suit (with dress shirt and tie) can double for informal nights as the jacket, with open neck dress shirt and dockers.


You're right. :) Good idea. (pssst......I didn't want to push the issue. Wasn't sure he was going to love the idea of a jacket let along a suit!!)

Geeez........it's a vacation. It's a cruise. It's special.
Most folks who can afford to cruise can afford to go to anyone of the many stores that are all having huge sales right now. All major department stores, all Mart stores, the internet is full of markdowns, JC Penney. Go treat yourself to a new suit and tie. It doesn't have to break the bank!! It can be very moderate and you may be surprised how much use you will find for it.

[ekerr19]

Sail - You are right, many clothing bargains to be had - especially after the Holidays.

I do hate to see parents stressing over whether or not their kids would be out of place or ridiculed - kids have a hard enough time with peer acceptance, so I understand. Thus my post about it not being "the opera".

That said, it is something very special and we continue to cruise with our children because we enjoy it so much. We have wonderful photos of them dressed to the "nines" that we are able to display and enjoy for many years to come.

I encourage everyone to consider dressing up and having fun! You may be pleasantly surprised. Our kids actually enjoy it - and we love it. :)

[jhannah]

I think that that age is the perfect time to start learning how to dress for a grown-up occassion, good manners, and all that good stuff. I couldn't agree more. It can be an important part of the education that comes from cruising, traveling, and seeing the world. I love slouching/bumming around the house as much as anyone; but a cruise is a special event and should be approached that way, IMO.

[wblynch]

Funny how the Formal and Semi-Formal topics come up so often.

Cruising has inherited many traditions from the days of world travel on ocean liners. Formal dining may be the last.

People used to dress for air flights. I remember being a youngster in the early 60's and you were expected to wear at least slacks, a tie and dress shoes when boarding a plane.

Now people look like homeless vagabonds when they fly. (Although I admit the knee-jerk reaction of airport security practically forces one to fly nude, or in flannel pj's).

But I guess people have lost all their sophistication anymore. Too bad.

I like dressing up and seeing the women in their cocktail dresses and gowns. It's one thing that makes cruising a little nicer than a typical vacation to Disneyland staying at the Day's Inn.

I never get compliments about my looks anymore until I put on a Tux. Then everyone who knows me is amazed that I "clean up so well".

Even ZZ Top sang how, "Every girl's crazy 'bout a sharp dressed man".

[SANDY BEACH]

I just don't understand why many say "I" will do what "I" want and if they don't like it too bad. All cruise lines have set rules, dress codes being part of the rules. Before you set foot on the ship you are aware of what they expect while cruising with them. I would think that if their rules didnot appeal to you, you would find another ship to cruise on. There is nothing wrong with casual dining and many ships offer just that. 2000 people cannot dictate 2000 different sets of rules. Find the ship that is best for you but don't try to change the standards already set. You definitely don't have to agree with them but leave these ships to those who do. JMHO

[dakrewser]

I just don't understand why many say "I" will do what "I" want and if they don't like it too bad. All cruise lines have set rules, dress codes being part of the rules. Before you set foot on the ship you are aware of what they expect while cruising with them. I would think that if their rules didnot appeal to you, you would find another ship to cruise on. There is nothing wrong with casual dining and many ships offer just that. 2000 people cannot dictate 2000 different sets of rules. Find the ship that is best for you but don't try to change the standards already set. You definitely don't have to agree with them but leave these ships to those who do. JMHO

Amen!

It's not as if it's difficult to comply, either. There's always the Lido or room service for those who don't want to put a jacket on. The food's quite good that way, also. :)


? Why is it only men who seem to have trouble with the dress code?

[ekerr19]

? Why is it only men who seem to have trouble with the dress code?

I am NOT even going to go there! :eek:

[peaches from georgia]

[QUOTE=SANDY BEACH]..... All cruise lines have set rules, dress codes being part of the rules..... I would think that if their rules didnot appeal to you, you would find another ship to cruise on..... Find the ship that is best for you but don't try to change the standards already set.

All this would work fine if the cruiselines would enforce the dress codes that they wrote and still publish. Problem is they don't and the 'It's my cruise and I'll do as I please' crowd knows they are pretty much free to ignore all rules and codes and nothing will be said or done. Frankly I quit blaming the inconsiderate pax a long time ago. The blame belongs on the cruiseline.

[jaguarstyper]

When on Zuiderdam in April, I did not wear a jacket on the semi-formal nights. In fact, I didnt even realize there were semi-formal nights. Apparently not many others realized it either. I could not discern any difference in the overall dress of the dining room from casual to the semi-formal "suggested dress". Formal nights were clearly a different story. I wear a tux and most dressed accordingly. You wont see many people, if any wearing jeans on any evening.

Dress nicely and no one will question what your wearing. I found that the passangers and crewmembers are much more forgiving than some people on this board. :rolleyes:

Enjoy your cruise.

Tim

[ekerr19]

Tim-

The Zui is a different animal as far as many long time HAL cruisers are concerned. It is marketed to appeal to cruisers who are more familiar with other lines. The 7-day Caribbean (especially on the Zui) is far more relaxed than we've ever experienced on another HAL ship.

I don't believe people are trying to be harsh here - if you cruise on another HAL ship, especially the longer voyages - you will see far more people dressing up in adherence with the suggested dress of the day than you did on the Zui.

We were most recently on the Noordam this past November - DH had his arm in a cast & sling, thus could not wear a jacket no matter how hard he tried. No one made us feel out of place or unaccepted. I think most pax ask that others respect the requested dress of the day, but it does little to deviate from anyone's personal cruise experience. :)

We make the choice to dress as suggested, but I could care less what anyone else is or is not wearing.

Hope to meet you on board someday soon. :)

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Tim,
Thanks for your input. Since the Zuiderdam is targeted towards families and is not like any ship in the rest of the fleet as far as tradition is involved I thought I would be OK.

When I go to the dining room to eat I don't notice nor care what anybody else is wearing. I'm sitting at my table enjoying my family and meal. I don't look around the dining room to see what others are wearing.

It's not like I'm coming to dinner in raggedy jeans. I wear my tux on formal nights and comply with everything on the ship except for wearing a sportscoat.

Sandy Beach,
Let me know what other cruiseline besides HAL's Zuiderdam that has the same itinerary and I'll be glad to comply and stay off Hal.
Believe me I'm already sorry I booked this cruise and if we hadn't bought 7 airline tickets already we'd cancel.

Bill

[cruzingqueen]

Dinscoe, I don't think you can wear jeans to the Lido on any night. You can wear them for lunch and during the day, but in the evenings, I'm almost 100% positive that jeans cannot be worn to the Lido. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

You can wear anything to the Lido at anytime provided it isn't your swimsuit. Swimsuits are ok even provided you have a "coverup" on. Shoes are required at all times. Jeans are acceptable anytime in the Lido.

[ekerr19]

You can wear anything to the Lido at anytime provided it isn't your swimsuit. Swimsuits are ok even provided you have a "coverup" on. Shoes are required at all times. Jeans are acceptable anytime in the Lido.

At night? I hope you are referring to day time; but I think the question was about the evening dining alternative in the Lido, however I could be wrong.

Most people wear casual attire (which would be the same as casual night in the dining room) and some are still dressed in accordance with the suggested dress of the day.

[cruzingqueen]

At night? I hope you are referring to day time; but I think the question was about the evening dining alternative in the Lido, however I could be wrong.

Most people wear casual attire (which would be the same as casual night in the dining room) and some are still dressed in accordance with the suggested dress of the day.

Jeans, shorts, coverups over the swimsuits.....I've been on the Z for at least 5 cruises in the last couple of years (last week was the last one) and it is nothing to see all of this in the evenings. Possibly the itineraries are dictating this and it is acceptable because some people come on board and go straight to the Lido not wanting to clean up first. I've never seen anyone thrown out of the Lido except the man wearing only his speedos. Not a pretty sight at lunch or dinner! Even the people using bathrobes to cover their swimsuit were allowed to stay!

[SANDY BEACH]

SS Oceanlover, I don't think itinerary should have anything to do with the topic of following the standards a ship sets forth. I personally don't care if you wear a coat or not, I just get tired of many saying the rules are stupid and I'll do as I please. There are many things I don't agree with in life but if I chose to dine in a certain restaurant that posts in its' brochure that a coat is required, my DH doesn't show up without one. If a wedding is adult only, I wouldn't bring children. Someone has to set the rules and just because I may not agree doesn't mean I should ignore them. I hope you enjoy your Holland cruise and find that we are not the group you have probably preconceived in your mind. I can only speak for myself in saying, I am just a little more staunch than most in following rules. For me, it is the right thing to do, for others it is their own personal decision.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

SandyBeach,
To be honest with you I have always followed the rules wherever or whatever we do. While I'm being honest I feel I must mention my ignorance when booking this cruise. I didn't even stop to check the dress codes as the previous lines I've cruised on were CCL,RCI, and Princess. None of them had semi formal nights so I just assumed (yes I know) all lines in the mass market were the same. You can also argue I guess that Hal is a premium line but we can argue that all night long. Since I am in charge of the booking process for our group every year the only blame can be put on me for not doing my homework.
All the airline tix are already purchased so there is no turning back now. Since I don't own a jacket and don't think it's prudent to buy one for 2 nights so everyone on the ship can be happy, I'll be dining in the lido or wherever they have the cafeteria food. :)

We'll make the best of this cruise and chalk it up as a learning experience.
Take care, thanks for your input, and I sincerely hope all your future cruises are great! :-)

Bill

Bill

[wblynch]

... as the previous lines I've cruised on were CCL,RCI, and Princess. None of them had semi formal nights ...



4 out of 5 of our RCCL cruises had semi-formal nights. Only the 3-day Baja cruise on Monarch did not. Even that cruise had one formal night however.

[Pudgesmom]

ss oceanlover,

I haven't had dinner in the Lido, but it is my understanding that they serve the same food there as in the main dining room. Also, if you order in the first 1/2 hour of the dinner service, you can get a full dining room meal in your stateroom. If you want to do this, check the menu out front of the dining room sometime earlier in the day, then just call up and order all the courses (delivered at once, not seperately) to your room.

Half Moon Cay is beautiful, and this is a wonderful itinerary. I hope you have a great cruise.

Beth :)

[tess2cruz]

We do not really enjoy eating in the dining room at all. We really don't enjoy, like others, dressing up. For Texans, a lot of times, jeans and jacket is dressed up. We have, on the last two cruises, ate in the buffet, early, they spent the rest of the "formal night" in our swimsuites enjoying private hot tub time!! From around 7-9 almost everyone is either eating dinner, getting ready for dinner, or taking pictures. So we enjoy, our alone, and bother no one. We usually don't eat in the dining room at all. May have to if they serve King Crab though. But we will be prepared to dress appropriatly, or have drinks and dinner on our verandah, makes no differance to us.

[shipcafe]

People used to dress for air flights. I remember being a youngster in the early 60's and you were expected to wear at least slacks, a tie and dress shoes when boarding a plane. Now people look like homeless vagabonds when they fly. (Although I admit the knee-jerk reaction of airport security practically forces one to fly nude, or in flannel pj's).

Too funny but too true. I still tend to dress up when traveling but wondery why sometimes when I see those sitting around me dressed to kill -- and not in a good way.

[meglet]

This is my first post wading into the fray. Echoing Peaches...There are so many cruise lines, each with a different personality. The itinerary on one may be intriguing, but I wouldn't sail the cruise line if it didn't fit my personality. I'd love to do RCCL Southern Caribbean, but the way they've changed their demographic in all their advertising seems to have taken away the peace, relaxation, and yes, the elegance, of the cruise experience. Nor would I sail Carnival or NCL even for a great price. It would be so nice if each cruise line could maintain and reinforce its own identity.

As a high school teacher it's been interesting to note over my 20 year career that recently a larger number of teens really doesn't know how to eat a formal meal served in courses such as at Prom or Senior Luncheon. That kind of skill is great for parents to be able to expose their children to.