Really Disappointed with HAL.........

[sail7seas]

I am so disappointed to find that HAL is not positioning any ships in the Caribbean for summer 2006. We love to cruise during the summer despite the mobs of kids and young families.

We love the heat, the humidity.....the lack of crowds in the various islands.

I speculate the reasons why they are doing this but I AM NOT A HAPPY HAL CRUISER!!!

[bepsf]

Dear me - and I was afraid that they'd really p***ed you off for good!
;)

Sail, have you and your DH done Europe yet?

[Iggipolka]

[b]I speculate the reasons why they are doing this but I AM NOT A HAPPY HAL CRUISER!!!

Why do you think?

[jhannah]

I'm sure they took a bloodbath last year with all the hurricanes, and that is probably one of the reasons. Another is that Alaska is apparently more lucrative for them, so it's best for HAL from a cash flow standpoint to position more of their ships there during the season.

[bepsf]

Why do you think?

Two reasons that I can think of:

The hurricanes last year were rather expensive and troublesome for HAL and they'd rather not deal w/ them.
Alaska is a prime market - HAL can make much more money per cruise/week sending Zuiderdam thru the Panama Canal & up to Alaska for the summer than they can keeping Zuiderdam in the Caribbean w/ all the other budget-ships during the "off" season.

[sail7seas]

Dear me - and I was afraid that they'd really p***ed you off for good!
;)

Sail, have you and your DH done Europe yet?


Yes, Brian.

DH and I have been to Europe at least 20-25 times and have cruised there about 4 cruises.

We loved our cruises there and probably will return some day but I really, really love those summer Caribbean cruises.

Yup,,,,they've gone and P***ed me off!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Celebrity sort of exited, too. But I have a feeling they're all "testing the waters" to see what happens with hurricanes for the next couple years. The forecasts are so dire, and they got so burned not just by the hurricanes themselves but by all the complaining and the moaning about changes in itineraries and the shortened or lengthened cruises. So people cook their own geese in a way.

We'll see, but I just can't imagine that they've given it up for good. If they put too much of a presence in Alaska, that won't be as lucrative either. You oversaturate a market and you can get burned there as well.

Sail, when I saw the subject line of this thread I couldn't click fast enough! I thought to myself ... "what has HAL done to tee off this loyal cruiser!!??":eek: .

[sail7seas]

I agree with those who have speculated above the reasons and there might be another??.


Perhaps they are not so happy about the whole families in the Caribbean scene during the summer. Maybe it was a little 'more' than they expected??? I don't know and doubt any of us will know all of the reasons but it probably is all of the above or some combination of it.

[sail7seas]

[quote]Sail, when I saw the subject line of this thread I couldn't click fast enough! I thought to myself ... "what has HAL done to tee off this loyal cruiser!!??":eek: .



:( I doubt anyone in Seattle is going to stay up tonight giving a hoot if I (or any of us) are tee'd off. ;) I know I am very replaceable. If
DH and I don't buy the Suite, there will be someone else occupying it.

[localady]

I agree with those who have speculated above the reasons and there might be another??.


Perhaps they are not so happy about the whole families in the Caribbean scene during the summer. Maybe it was a little 'more' than they expected??? I don't know and doubt any of us will know all of the reasons but it probably is all of the above or some combination of it.

Families drove HAL out of the Caribbean for the summer?????:eek:

Families get a really bad rap here on the board.:( It's a true shame. I usually am in agreement with you S7S, but not this time.

IMHO, it has more to do no doubt with where the ships can make top dollars for the corporation, and Alaska, or anywhere but the Caribbean, are more profitable....Let's not blame it on families for goodness sake!!!!

[Peggy Sue]

Is HAL taking all ships out of the Caribbean over the summer months of 06?

I could see them stopping in late Aug and Steptember ..but why July and August??

Were the ships sailing full? I can certainly understand their concerns over hurricanes..they really took a hit last year ...4 times ...but there's been many years with no hurricanes that impact cruise ships too!

I've been searching for panama canal cruises in 06..either a lot of lines don't have their schedules set yet, or they aren't offering as many. We may have to opt for a partial transit, but we really wanted to experience a full transit and visit a lot of new ports.

Sail..sorry...Maybe HAL doesn't have all their schedules set..or do you see that they ships have been sent elsewhere??

I bet the islands aren't too happy!

Peggy Sue

[sail7seas]

I didn't express myself very clearly.


I think I mentioned I believe it to be a combination of things and I do include some of the wild ones!! Of course we all know the vast majority of the kids are great and I for one am happy to be around them.


Didn't I say that we enjoy sailing in the summer when we know the ship will be loaded with kids? If I hated kids and families so much, it would seem we'd avoid being on cruises when we know there will be hundreds and hundreds of them.

But the truth is there are some destructive, annoying, disrespectful, threatening 'young darlings'.

Maybe included in the mix of all the reasons, HAL decided that loading each cabin to full capacity by having so many children was not a wonderful idea. Maybe having more than the usual 'full load' of pax was more than their usual crews can handle.

How many times have we heard the stewards were over-worked? Maybe they aren't as overworked when there are two folks in most of the cabins.....not three and four?

I don't hate kids. I'm not anti-family.

[OCruisers]

S7S, Heather, and ALL .... Gosh, we don't normally cruise in the summer/fall BUT we have a problem with winter/spring '06 on BOTH Celebrity and HAL taking a longer cruise (10+ days) out of Florida!!! :(

Happy Sailing! OCruisers :)

[JDee]

Could be that those family oriented pax don't spend $$ in the bars/lounges. Kids just too young to use the casino, can't reach the slots. No penny machines.http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon10.gif For the shore excursions, they most likely are not the big spenders and do the more economical or almost "free" type of activities....

Happy cruising....

[peaches from georgia]

Any change is ALWAYS a business decision based on the bottom line. If they can make more money somewhere other than the Caribbean in the summer that is where the ship will go. The reasons aren't touchy-feely; they are based on profit, as they should be.

The Caribbean in the off-season is full of problems, mainly having to discount cabins to get people on the ships in the summer, the potential for hurricane liabilities, and I agree with JDee that there is no doubt a lot less $$$ is spent on board by young families-for booze and casino- which is where the profit for the cruiseline is. Alaska- it's high season in the summer and if the Zuiderdam can make more money there, which is no surprise, that is where it will be sent.

[localady]

I didn't express myself very clearly.



But the truth is there are some destructive, annoying, disrespectful, threatening 'young darlings'.

Maybe included in the mix of all the reasons, HAL decided that loading each cabin to full capacity by having so many children was not a wonderful idea. Maybe having more than the usual 'full load' of pax was more than their usual crews can handle.

How many times have we heard the stewards were over-worked? Maybe they aren't as overworked when there are two folks in most of the cabins.....not three and four?

I don't hate kids. I'm not anti-family.

S7S-
Thanks for the clarification! I over-reacted and I am sorry for that. Mea culpa. :o (I guess I really need a vacation.:rolleyes: )

I agree there are some absolute horror children, we have cruised with them before. I watched a child tell a staff member of the Magic's kids programs that he could do whatever he pleased, cause his father was paying big bucks for the cruise!!!!:eek:

4 to a cabin, when anyone of any age share rooms, and the resultant extra bodies on board can be noticeable. I am fearing it will not be like that on the Zaandam in March. We actually got 2 rooms, a balcony and an interior, for ourselves and the boys. It's a better vacation for the entire family that way!! :D

[sail7seas]

Localady.......:) No problem. I didn't express myself as well as I should have. And families really have been slammed more than they should be. It is understandable why a responsible parent with good kids is sick of hearing it. I'm sorry for causing you (even a temporary ) upset.


I hope you have a wonderful time on Zaandam. She's a great ship and you have done all you can to plan the best for your family. Two cabins (AND TWO BATHROOMS) ;) should make it more comfortable for all of you.

We'll look forward to hearing all about it when you return.

[oliviaonthe beach]

Well, what a surprise this news is. I hope I don't like my first HAL Caribbean cruise too much since I won't be able to repeat it. Summer is my primary vacation time!

[localady]

Localady.......:) No problem. I didn't express myself as well as I should have. And families really have been slammed more than they should be. It is understandable why a responsible parent with good kids is sick of hearing it. I'm sorry for causing you (even a temporary ) upset.


I hope you have a wonderful time on Zaandam. She's a great ship and you have done all you can to plan the best for your family. Two cabins (AND TWO BATHROOMS) ;) should make it more comfortable for all of you.

We'll look forward to hearing all about it when you return.

Thank you for your graciousness!!! :D

I will report back possibly during, definately after we return. I am very much looking forward to seeing the SOE upgrades on the Zaandam. Since we are so close, we will spend a couple of days at the happiest place on earth in Orlando, as DW has never been there.:cool:

[ekerr19]

Sail -

I hate to say this, but please, those of you on the East coast and in Florida can keep the Caribbean during the summertime! It is just not for me. The humidity is overwhelming and I just can't seem to get used to it. Growing up at sea level - we never really had too much humidity in So. Calif. in the 60's & 70's - I left for Colorado in the late 80's and I am now "climate controlled" - give me the Med or even the Baltics any day during the summer!

Though I don't care for Alaska and do like warmer climates, I just can't do huge doses of humidity.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Any change is ALWAYS a business decision based on the bottom line. If they can make more money somewhere other than the Caribbean in the summer that is where the ship will go. The reasons aren't touchy-feely; they are based on profit, as they should be.

The Caribbean in the off-season is full of problems, mainly having to discount cabins to get people on the ships in the summer, the potential for hurricane liabilities, and I agree with JDee that there is no doubt a lot less $$$ is spent on board by young families-for booze and casino- which is where the profit for the cruiseline is. Alaska- it's high season in the summer and if the Zuiderdam can make more money there, which is no surprise, that is where it will be sent.

The cruise lines don't have to discount Caribbean cruises in the summer. They get there highest per diems then except for holiday sailings. There are not that many ships in the caribbean in the summer months as the ate in Alaska and Europe so there are less berths to fill in the summer compared to the winter when every ship under the sun is sailing in the Caribbean.

Bill

[dougnewmanatsea]

This drama just played out recently on the Celebrity board, since they will not have any ships in the Caribbean over the summer in 2005, for the first time in many years.Obviously both HAL and Celebrity think they can make more money with their ships elsewhere - so that's where they'll put them.

[ekerr19]

The cruise lines don't have to discount Caribbean cruises in the summer. They get there highest per diems then except for holiday sailings. There are not that many ships in the caribbean in the summer months as the ate in Alaska and Europe so there are less berths to fill in the summer compared to the winter when every ship under the sun is sailing in the Caribbean.

Bill

Bill - I've got to disagree... the best price we've ever received on any cruise was a Western Caribbean on the Zuiderdam in August 2003 - we got a Suite for less than what we normally pay for an outside cabin. :)

Imo, Alaska is a very expensive cruise for the itinerary. I'd much rather cruise in Europe than Alaska, especially with all those crowds.

[stanford's girl]

S7S,

I'm ticked off too that there is no Caribbean Hal in the summer. I was planning to go then. Guess I'll have to pick Hawaii or wait until Oct to do the Caribbean. I'd rather not run into a hurricane. Did that 10 years ago on Carnival in Mexico. Spent 5 days at sea trying to out run it and missed 2 out of 3 ports. It wasn't my favorite cruise. Gave a whole new meaning to the saying " surf's up".:eek:

[yes2sail]

For those who love the Caribbean in the summer and are disappointed that their favorite ship isn't going there at tha time . . . try another line OR you might try a land vacation. We did St. Thomas twice on land and the summer has GREAT prices. aYou can get a condo, car rental etc for not a lot of money and explore the island and enjoy the offerings for more than a few hours at a time.

[peaches from georgia]

The cruise lines don't have to discount Caribbean cruises in the summer. They get there highest per diems then except for holiday sailings. There are not that many ships in the caribbean in the summer months as the ate in Alaska and Europe so there are less berths to fill in the summer compared to the winter when every ship under the sun is sailing in the Caribbean.

Bill
Huh? I'm not sure what you were looking at, but if you check out the Zuiderdam from July thru Sept., while it varies from category to category, the avg. discounts range from 30% to over 50%. It's hard to make $$$$ with those kind of discounts unless you are making it up with heavy spending at the bars and in the casinos, which are not your normal 'family' venues. Alaska must be much more lucrative or why would HAL put 8 ships there vs. 0 in the Caribbean in 2006.

Apparently other cruiselines have the same problems making money in the Carib in the summer, too. Are they all making a bad business decision and giving up their highest diems? :confused:

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yes2Sail, you are absolutely right. We have often gone to the islands of the Caribbean in the summer and it's a fabulous time! Less crowds ... rates are down. And the temps are really not that much different than other times of the year (unless you get as far south as Barbados). I love it.

And the good news is if you can find a cruise in the Caribbean in the summer, the ports sure won't be so crowded! I'm a glass full kind of gal:D

[Oceanwench]

Heather, I'm like you -- I couldn't wait to read this thread and see what S7S was disappointed in!
I couldn't imagine what it would be!

S7S: When do the ships return to the Caribbean? The height of hurricane season is September, but it technically ends Nov. 30. I usually cruise in early November.

[sail7seas]

For those who love the Caribbean in the summer and are disappointed that their favorite ship isn't going there at tha time . . . try another line OR you might try a land vacation. We did St. Thomas twice on land and the summer has GREAT prices. aYou can get a condo, car rental etc for not a lot of money and explore the island and enjoy the offerings for more than a few hours at a time.

That is a reasonable suggestion. Long before we ever started cruising, we went many times to various Caribbean islands (including St. Thomas) and stayed at resorts for a week or ten days. Those were great vacations and we may begin doing them again.

We have gotten so into cruising that we stopped thinking about returning to some of those fabulous resorts. HAL may have just lost a lot of our vacation time to hotels which do not 'reposition'.

We're not going to give up going on vacation because HAL chose to not have a ship in the location where we wish to go.

[sail7seas]

Huh? I'm not sure what you were looking at, but if you check out the Zuiderdam from July thru Sept., while it varies from category to category, the avg. discounts range from 30% to over 50%. It's hard to make $$$$ with those kind of discounts unless you are making it up with heavy spending at the bars and in the casinos, which are not your normal 'family' venues. Alaska must be much more lucrative or why would HAL put 8 ships there vs. 0 in the Caribbean in 2006.

Apparently other cruiselines have the same problems making money in the Carib in the summer, too. Are they all making a bad business decision and giving up their highest diems? :confused:



To simply gauge the profit margin by the amount of the discount overlooks the obvous IMO

Thirty to fifty percent OFF OF WHAT????!!!!

The percentage is not nearly as relevant as What is the Bottom Line Price?!!!

We have gotten some excellent, very low prices on summer Caribbean cruises and other times we have paid as much as we paid in February.
I have not looked at the bottom line prices for this summer as we are booked for Canada/New England and planned to return to summer Caribbean cruising next summer.

[sail7seas]

S7S: When do the ships return to the Caribbean? The height of hurricane season is September, but it technically ends Nov. 30. I usually cruise in early November.




Zuiderdam will do a 21 day repositioning Panama Canal Cruise on September 30. The first 7 day Caibbean cruise will be October 21, 2006.


:( Bummer!!!

[KAJOKG]

Yes, Brian.

DH and I have been to Europe at least 20-25 times and have cruised there about 4 cruises.

We loved our cruises there and probably will return some day but I really, really love those summer Caribbean cruises.

Yup,,,,they've gone and P***ed me off!!!
No big deal --- try Princess/

[sail7seas]

Amsterdam will be doing Baltics, then transatlantic followed by Canada/New England in 2006 and will do a 13 day Sunfarer cruise on October 17.

Maasdam will do Canada/New England after her 35 day transatlantic round trip and will do an 11 day Southern Caribbean cruise on October 17.

Noordam will start Caribbean 10/11 day cruises on October 14.

Ryndam does starts 14 day Southern Caribbean cruises on October 13 and 27.

Volendam will do a 17 day repositioning from Alaska on September 27 and then 10 Seafarer Caribbean cruises start on October 14.

Westerdan does a 21 day Panama Canal return from Alaska on September 24 then starts her 7 day Eastern/Western Caribbean cruises on October 15.

[sail7seas]

No big deal --- try Princess/



Oh...we've tried Princess. We tried Princess about 5 or 6 times and the last time we tried Princess will probably be the last time we will try Princess. We were very disappointed. I don't like to ever say never but there would have to be compelling reasons for us to consider returning.
For me, lack of an HAL ship is not compelling enough for us to go back to Princess. We're far more likely to go to a resort in one of the islands.

[KAJOKG]

[QUOTE=
The Caribbean in the off-season is full of problems, mainly having to discount cabins to get people on the ships in the summer, [/QUOTE]

Peaches -- I live in Florida and last summer I was searching for "bargains." NONE -- and every ship sailing the Caribbean was FULL!!! Now this was before the hurricanes. That changed things. I really think that hurricane season has the cruise business thinking twice.

[S.S.Oceanlover]

Huh? I'm not sure what you were looking at, but if you check out the Zuiderdam from July thru Sept., while it varies from category to category, the avg. discounts range from 30% to over 50%. It's hard to make $$$$ with those kind of discounts unless you are making it up with heavy spending at the bars and in the casinos, which are not your normal 'family' venues. Alaska must be much more lucrative or why would HAL put 8 ships there vs. 0 in the Caribbean in 2006.

Apparently other cruiselines have the same problems making money in the Carib in the summer, too. Are they all making a bad business decision and giving up their highest diems? :confused:

Peaches,
While I understand that Alaskan cruises produce a higher per diem then a Caribbean cruise I was referring to your comment:

"The Caribbean in the off-season is full of problems, mainly having to discount cabins to get people on the ships in the summer".

Are you saying in the winter months they don't discount more then they do in the summer to get people on the ships? My reply was based on that. All winter long I'm getting emails for $599 for a week. I rarely get an email in the summer that pertains to a summer cruise. If it does it's late August early September when the kids have started back to school.

The only time I can cruise is middle of June until late August because I have a son in school. The prices in the caribbean always shoot up right when the kids get out of school because the demand for families cruising goes way up.
Maybe this doesn't apply to HAL I don't know but it seems to hold true on RCI, CCL, and Princess.

What I was trying to say was that it USUALLY cost more to cruise in the Caribbean during the summer and that the per diems were higher in the summer compared to winter sailings in the Caribbean, except for holidays, Presidents week, spring break.

Bill

[Peggy Sue]

s7s, I thought I had seen a cruise on the new Noordam leaving from Boston..but I guess my eyes were playing tricks...I do see that the Noordam will be leaving from NY for 10 /11 day cruises next spring and fall ..I know that's not the summer months you were looking for, but I thought this was a great option, as we could drive to NY for a cruise...I really dislike all the air / lugging etc.

You mentioned that you probably wouldn't try princess again...we thought we give them a shot in november. we've never been on the line before. Was there anything specific you didn't care on princess? we've been spoiled with the s suites, and I'm a bit apprehensive to go to a minisuite and give up all the perks, like the neptune, clean/pressing, etc. never been on a megaliner ..and wonder how I'm going to like that too. Your comments are most welcome.

Sorry that HAL has taken ships out of the caribbean in 06 .... After 9/11 a lot of folks didn't travel far from home...but people are traveling again...perhaps that's another reason why ships are being moved out of the caribbean. Too bad they don't keep at least one ship there over the summer months!

Good luck with your travel plans. I was just helping a woman at work this week with possible plans for a week in aruba...and remembered quite fondly what a great vacation that was .. lots of wonderful sun, beautiful beaches and great nigh life ...

Peggy Sue

[KAJOKG]

Oh...we've tried Princess. We tried Princess about 5 or 6 times and the last time we tried Princess will probably be the last time we will try Princess. We were very disappointed. I don't like to ever say never but there would have to be compelling reasons for us to consider returning.
For me, lack of an HAL ship is not compelling enough for us to go back to Princess. We're far more likely to go to a resort in one of the islands.

Fair enough and to each his own. I like Princess because I really, really hate traditional dining. And Princess line is a bit "perkier" than HAL. But one of my favorite ships is the Volendam, especially when I don't want to be "perky"....the other, Coral Princess.

[sail7seas]

PeggySue.......I wasn't aware of a Noordam sailing from Boston but I'm going to go look for it.

We did know about the New York sailings to the Caribbean and are seriously considering booking one but, as you say, there are none scheduled for the summer months. Still, they are nice itineraries.

About our last Princess experience:

We found the crew to be mechanical and (in our experience) did the barest minimum they could get away with. We're so used to the friendly, eager to please crews of HAL that we were disappointed.

As an example: We went to the same, very small, lounge every evening before dinner. It seated about 25 people. It was never packed full. We were aboard for back-to-backs (14 days). We ordered the same drinks each evening and certainly were in the same cabin. (their largest suite). Same bartender every night.

He not once ever greeted us when we entered the lounge. He took his sweet ole time about bothering to serve us. EVERY night he asked our cabin number; every night he asked what we wanted to drink. That never would happen on HAL. The bartenders there would ask if wanted our usual and would surely say good evening, hello, something. When we left for dinner, he never said good evening, enjoy your dinner.....not a single pleasant word. The only reason we continued to go to that lounge was because it was the only quiet one that didn't have blaring overly loud music. We like the quiet of the smaller lounge so we had few options.

We found his attitude typical of many stewards aboard the ship.....and indeed, even the Captain. Captain was extremely rude so there's no mystery why his crew was permitted to be so unfriendly to pax.

Our cabin steward was barely adequate. He never learned our names and we made almost no special requests but the few things I asked for were 'a real put out' for him to accomplish. These were very minor requests.

We did not care for Princess' Lido nearly as much as HAL's and we far more enjoy the meals the Chefs of HAL put out far more than Princess.
Of course I know this is subjective but, nevertheless, our opinion.

I went to the Office about our third day aboard and asked for a copy of the New York Times at Sea. I figured our steward had failed to deliver it to us. The girl at the office had one in her hand and told me "we recycle". Okay, may I please have a 'used' copy. Her response (I kid you not) was 'come back tomorrow'. WHAT!!!!

Being so used to tender passes given to suite pax on HAL, I wondered why we did not recieve one on Princess before our tender port. I went to the girl handing out the numbers and asked for a Suite pass. She said my TA should have given it to us. WHAT!!!!!

DH asked for early disembark as Suite Pax. He was told it would create chaos on the gangway if we were to get off early. The two of us would create chaos? WHAT!!!!!

I could go on and on but this does way go off point of the thread, doesn't it. :o

I didn't want to ignore your question.

[bepsf]

Tried the big internet vacation sites...


All I see in the Carib for summer '06 is Disney and Carnival -
Somehow, I don't see S7S sailing w/ the Mouse...http://www.cruise-source.com/Cruise/disney/images/mickey-minnie11.jpg

[sail7seas]

You got that right, Brian!!! :D


Cute as Mickey might be......I think we'll pass ;)

Now about Carnival..... I don't like to ever say never (again) but --------

[sail7seas]

Fair enough and to each his own. I like Princess because I really, really hate traditional dining. And Princess line is a bit "perkier" than HAL. But one of my favorite ships is the Volendam, especially when I don't want to be "perky"....the other, Coral Princess.

__________________
KATY


That is what is great about choices.

It's the best when you have several choices you enjoy and can decide which you are in the mood for.

Enjoy.....whichever line you are cruising on.

[bepsf]

Now about Carnival..... I don't like to ever say never (again) but --------







:eek: :eek: :eek:

****bepsf shakes S7S awake from her bad dream****

You okay there, Hon?
Have some coffee, you'll feel better soon...

[Rosarymb]

Okay, I'm no expert, but I would be willing to bet that with all the problems last summer with the hurricanes that the insurance on those ships was going to go up if they stayed in the Caribbean during the biggest portion of the hurricane season. It would be a human tragedy, but it would also be a business disaster if anyone's cruise ship was filmed breaking up in heavy seas. Nobody wants to have a 21st century Titanic, much less have it played forever on CNN.

[KAJOKG]

That is what is great about choices.

It's the best when you have several choices you enjoy and can decide which you are in the mood for.

Enjoy.....whichever line you are cruising on.

Ditto. I just love cruising for the cruise experience. I haven't had the same experiences you had on Princess, so I'll go with them or with HAL. Like them both.

[sail7seas]

:eek: :eek: :eek:

****bepsf shakes S7S awake from her bad dream****

You okay there, Hon?
Have some coffee, you'll feel better soon...
__________________
Brian



http://domania.us/DaveEdwards/SmileyPiano.gif

[Oceanwench]

If the HAL ships are returning to the Caribbean in mid October, it is still well into hurricane season.
Last year's hurricanes that struck the east coast of Florida were both in September -- Labor Day weekend and two weeks later.

Some of the ports remained closed for a while. I was on the Oct. 31 sailing of the Oosterdam and we were among the first allowed to go back to Grand Cayman.

June and July are typically slow times of hurricane season, as is November.

[bepsf]

If the HAL ships are returning to the Caribbean in mid October, it is still well into hurricane season.
Last year's hurricanes that struck the east coast of Florida were both in September -- Labor Day weekend and two weeks later.

Some of the ports remained closed for a while. I was on the Oct. 31 sailing of the Oosterdam and we were among the first allowed to go back to Grand Cayman.

June and July are typically slow times of hurricane season, as is November.

Then I guess it's pretty much about the profitability of Alaska vs. the Caribbean that time of year.

Even if Alaska cruises end up selling at comparable prices as the Caribbean, because of the limited availability they typically book up to a year in advance as opposed to closer to the sailing date. Those longer-term deposits-held contribute to the positive cashflow and ultimately the profitability of a company...

[rkacruiser]

On the Princess Message Board, I have posted my observations on my January 30th sailing aboard Star Princess. My experiences were somewhat different from yours on a Princess Cruise. That said, I fully understand about your comment with regard to the "mechanical" attitude of some of the public room Stewards. There is a difference between HAL and Princess in that area. I did feel that my two Dining Room Stewards and certainly my Cabin Steward provided every bit as friendly and efficient service as I have experienced on a HAL vessel, however. You might want to check out my posting.

One positive of the 2006 schedules, as I see it: there appears to be an increase in the number of complete Panama Canal transits.

[sail7seas]

Thanks, rkacruiser.......


I never go to the Princess board (as I have no current interest in cruising Princess) but I will go there to read your comments.

I sincerely mean that I am happy you had a great cruise. Those of us who love cruising, always want to hear fellow cruisers had a wonderful time.....no matter what line on which they sail.

[Peggy Sue]

S7S - Thanks for sharing your princess experiences. Can certainly understand your current desire to skip Princess given your experience. I agree that how a crew interacts with the passengers is a key element of the overall cruise experience. We love chatting with the staff, learing about their home and families and appreciate that they make an effort to understand what we like .. we met delightful bar staff on the Volendam...they had our preferences down after the second day and we had lots of fun with the staff..we ran into them all over the ship, and it was great to be greeted with a gracious smile and greeting. We've never experienced poor service on HAL. There may be some areas that need more help...like the dining room, but the staff that is there certainly did a great job taking care of our needs.

We almost booked the Westerdam, but it's going back to the same islands we've visited on our last two cruises. Wanted to give the Western Caribbean a try this time. We saw the Veendam was sailing a Western..but wondered about he age of the ship.

Enjoy planning your summer get-away! I think we deserve a little warm sun after all this snow and cold temps....don't you! (So, what did we plan last fall for our next cruise .... Alaska! But, we are looking forward to the experience...and stocking up on warm layers!)

Thanks,
Peggy Sue

[sail7seas]

Peggy Sue....

We were on a 12 day cruise on Veendam in January and would return to that ship without hesitation. She is the youngest of the "S" class ships and is wonderful. Our plumbing and a/c were fine in our cabin and we think her a great ship. We have been on far newer ships that have had far more problems. Veendam's condition really is fine IMO

If that is any help to you in deciding about booking her.

And yes...I sure do agree we need some warmth, sun, heat.....We need Spring SOON!!! But, we just heard the weather report and seems we are in for two more storms over the upcoming weekend. ughh!!!

[kryos]

I'm sure they took a bloodbath last year with all the hurricanes, and that is probably one of the reasons. Another is that Alaska is apparently more lucrative for them, so it's best for HAL from a cash flow standpoint to position more of their ships there during the season.
You're not kidding, a blood bath. The cruise I was on ... a b2b on the Zuiderdam ... the first week of the b2b ended up getting extended from Saturday to a Monday disembarkation because of Hurrican Francis. The second cruise was shortened and because of that only about 650 pax decided to make the trip. I'm sure that between all of the credits they had to give out ... not to mention the passengers who got an extra 2.5 days tacked onto their cruise that first week, totally free of charge ... even free of auto tips ... HAL really lost money. Then, that first week of September cruise ... only 650 passengers on that huge boat! Frankly, I'm surprised they even sailed. Could it have been worth it? And, I heard these weeks were not the only ones where HAL lost out (as did many other cruiselines). It was just a very active hurricane season.

So, it's understandable to me why HAL wouldn't be operating in the Carribean next summer. Just too risky from a financial standpoint, though one would have to wonder if last year could have been a "once in twenty years" occurrence. Maybe HAL will go back once they see a couple of calm hurricane seasons in these parts of the ocean.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kgjg]

Unfortunately, El Nino is still with us, although it is weakening more and more each week. We are expected to have El Nino conditions through June and that means that it could possibly be more of the same for the Caribbean and the East coast hurricane wise.

It should fall back to a neutral condition by the middle of the Summer, but it will be too late for the sailing season to reposition and make a profit. Ahhh profit, that's the problem. Look at it this way. HAL cannot pay us to ride their boat, they are expected to make some money for their trouble. Carib is too big a gamble this Summer.

BVI is alive and well and only a plane ride away. You can hop from island to island with local transportation. That would be a good alternstive.

[peaches from georgia]

[b]To simply gauge the profit margin by the amount of the discount overlooks the obvous IMO


Clearly I was NOT gauging HAL's profit margin or the decision to move their last remaining ship cruising the Caribbean in the summer to Alaska on the discounting of cabins ALONE. There are a variety of reasons that would go into this decision- all impacting on HAL's profit margin re Caribbean cruises vs. Alaskan. Another poster had said that cabins are not discounted in the Carib during the summer. I said some categories are indeed discounted, to varying degrees.

However, I clearly stated there were SEVERAL reasons that the Zuiderdam might not be as profitable in the Caribbean as in Alaska and that HAL bases their decisions on their profit margin.
______________________________________________
QUOTE: peaches from georgia- ......

The Caribbean in the off-season is full of problems, mainly having to discount cabins to get people on the ships in the summer, the potential for hurricane liabilities, and I agree with JDee that there is no doubt a lot less $$$ is spent on board by young families-for booze and casino- which is where the profit for the cruiseline is. Alaska- it's high season in the summer and if the Zuiderdam can make more money there, which is no surprise, that is where it will be sent.

[Sinbad37]

I was wondering if you have pictures of your "Hurricane
Cruise" experience?
Being a former sailboater, I personally would not choose to be in the Caribbean on any ship during that time of year.

As others have posted, the resort type vacation seems a better choice with many advantages. There are many places that you cannot really enjoy without staying awhile. I like the island hopping idea too!

Hope you or others who have Hurricane Photos while on cruise will post.
Thanks.

[stefhef]

I don't know where people get this idea that there is no profit in kids onboard. First, if they are sharing a cabin with the parents, that is pure profit, as the stewards only need to bring a few more towels and make up two more beds, but HAL charges hundreds of $$. They don't eat much, and trust me, it isn't 4 orders of lobster tails and doubles on the escargot, as I have read on other email threads that some adult passengers do.

We always take two cabins so that the kids have their own and there are enough bathrooms to go around. No money lost to HAL there - 4 adult fares. Then there are the soda cards, the $40/day that each kid wants to play bingo, the souvenirs from the ship's shops, and let's not forget the arcades. And for my daughter (and other girls I've seen onboard), there's the salon. Then there's the excursions (if you take them, which we seldom do), in which HAL usually charges the same price as the adult price. And last time (Feb. 2005), although I took seven rolls of pictures, we bought 10 pictures from the ship's photographer, as how can you leave those beautiful pictures of your children behind (we are especially suckers for the new all white background that they had on the Zuiderdam). Overall, I would say that the kids' per diem on extras is just as much as many adults, and maybe more so. [And we aren't smuggling liquor onboard either].

[FCOWHER]

Stefhef, the costs you list are significant. They pale in comparison to 1 adult who enjoys a few belts b4 dinner, and 3-4 more drinks while spending two hours in the casino. While the soda cards, photos, and arcade games can add up they certainly dont affect the bottem line the way the casino does. That is why the Disney cruises are so expensive, no casino. Just the same for every child on a ship there is usually an adult spending quite liberally. I think there is just too much competetion for the summer vacation dollars. Every resort on the east coast is stocked full of families during ther summer months. So the bottem line on HAL moving the ships must be must be the bottem line. Joe V.


Serenade of the Seas 12/31/05
Zuiderdam 4/23/05
RCI - 2 times
Princess - 3 times
QE2 - 1 time
Royal Majesty - 1 time
Carnival - 1 time

[sail7seas]

Lots of good points here.


Hurricane season is officially from June through the end of November. That is a full six months of the year. While June and July are not considered 'height of the hurricane season', nor is the end of October through November, there certainly have been some storms during those months.

Do you think the cruiselines will avoid the Caribbean for half the year permanently?

[HeatherInFlorida]

I don't think so, Sail. I honestly believe they're "testing the waters" ... trying new things. As I said before, if Alaska gets over penetrated that won't be profitable either.

But there's no question that the lines will go where the money is. They'll look at the numbers and it's my personal belief that they'll be back here in the next 2 to 3 years (unless of course we continue to have bad hurricane seasons). Don't forget that there are a lot of weather forecasters telling everyone we're in for it over the next 10 to 20 years. I think the cruiselines listen to that.

[PrincessMelody]

Not to nitpick Kryos, but we were on the Zuiderdam cruise that was extended 2.5 days, and we WERE charged autotips for those days...and believe me, everyone was still drinking, spending gobs of cash in the casino, and buying lots of stuff from the shops, eating in the Pinnacle, buying pictures, etc...so it wasn't a TOTAL loss for HAL:rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

Trinity .......


Is your avator your photo? If so, I have to compliment your beautiful hair. :)

[PrincessMelody]

Hi Sail...

Yes that is me in the avatar...taken last summer. My hair is a bit longer now though. Thank you so much for the sweet compliment!!:) You really made my day!!

[Himself]

Sorry to hear of disappointments with HAL.

I--Himself--was on the Zuiderdam in late May and Early June of 2003 and I found a full compliment of pax both weeks. In fact we were over capacity. Capacity is figured two to a room and 924 rooms they come up with capacity of 1848. Many children were on board and in parents room. I am not complaining. I thought it was refreshing to see so many children on a HAL ship and seeming to enjoy it. So, I don't think money is the problem. I suspect the Hurricane Season has much to do with it but I have NO inside information. And if having three mega ships in Alaska turns out to be a "bust" in 06, who knows where they will be in 07. Maybe one will be in the Caribbean.
Next year the Zuiderdam and the Volendam will be doing the "inside passage" out of Vancouver.
The Ryndam, Statendam, and Veendam will go between Vancourver and Seward, returning two Vancouver every other week. Now the priest from Joliet who does chaplanices--need I mention his name--was Chaplain on the Ryndam for two weeks in 2001 and just loved this cruise. Some pax stayed on for two weeks. Usually they go Vancouver to Seward and then travel inland in Alaska and another group boards at Seward after Alaska time and comes back. The Gulf of Alaska can be rough but the Sea is the Sea. One week it was rough and the next week smooth.


In 2006 the OOSTERDAM, ZAANDAM and WESTERDAM will do a week out of Seattle. I think everything else will be in Europe or Eastern Canada.
We will see how it works out. Where will I be in 2006. The Lord only knows and he ain't tellin!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Himself

[Himself]

Just went to HAL news releases to verify my info. 8 ships in alaska (as listed in privious reply. The Maasdam will be doing Eastern Canada (but not drinking "Canada Dry" [smile]) That is the Ninth ship.
The Noordam will be doing Europe along with the Rotterdam, Amsterdam and Prisendam. That accounts for the fleet in 2006. Now if those Vista class ships are not packed in Alaska in 2006, Hal may re-evaluate.

Himself