Ryndam, time to retire?

[2menUK]

It is with regret that I am writing to say that our cruise on the Ryndam was much less enjoyable than hoped for. I am usually not a complainer but it seemed that there were a comedy of errors that started soon after we boarded the ship. It seems there have been major budget cuts which was sadly confirmed by one of HALs employees onboard. I feel that not only is the ship getting tired but it seems that the management of the ship is as well. Most everything I will mention here could be improved with very minor expense.
Firstly, we were taking my elderly dad on this cruise so he could be with his brother and his wife. This was the main perpose of this cruise. We had all booked "dine as you wish" since early seating was not available. On past cruises I have had no problem with "dine as you wish" However this time was a major exception. With in an hour after boarding I went down to try to book a table for 5 for dinner. I was told that they only had 5:15 or 8:15 available. We were trying to get something around 7pm. I then tried to book the next two nights and was told the same thing. We then decided to try going at the time we wished even though we could not book and the first two nights we had no problem at all. On the last night of the cruise we arrived at the main dining room at about 6:30 to be informed that there was NO "dine as you wish" that night and we would have to come back for the late seating or eat in the Lido. What a great way to spend the last night with relatives. There was not announcement of this anywhere. Even tought the attendant insisted it was in the daily paper we could not find this. On other HAL ships "dine as you wish was everynight.
We then tried to book the Pinacle Grill for a table of 3 for one night. Again just an hour after boarding they informed us that the two formal nights were booked so we booked the second night of the cruise. We booked a 6:30 reservation. About a hour later a called back to add two more people to the reservation and was told that if we changed we would have to come at 5:15. We rearranged our plans and did that. However, I have to point out that due to slow service we were in the Pinacle grill for over 4 hours that night and through the whole night 3 tables that could accommodate 5 people were empty the whole time. I have no idea why that could not take our booking.
I would also like to warn anyone who has dined at the Pinacale Grill in the past to be prepared for budget cuts. The meal was what I would consider a nice meal if I was judging it by the main dining room standards. However, the quality and size of the steaks has been cut, the salmon was a tiny tail portion and the 2 lambchops while flavorful were not enough. We also waited well over 30 minutes from the time they collected our plates from the starter portion until the main courses arrived and they all did not arrive together.
The following morning I had a call from customer service to ask how my dinner was in the Pinacale Grill was. When I said "I feel there were budget cuts" believe it our not, here response was "yes we have had many budget cuts". I cannot believe an employee would admit that. I was shocked.
Adding to all of the, when we boarded we had a horrible smell out on our balcany and also up at the top deck as well. We thought it was possible Tampa harbour because it went away when we were sailing. However as we slowed to dock in Key West it came right back. Initially I did not call to complain however I learned that about 20 other rooms around us had. A staff member came into our room to check it out. It seems to be sewer drains and is terrible. However it was never fixed but they did send an apology letter and a bottle of wine, which was a nice gesture.
One other item that was missing was hot appetizers during cocktail hour prior to dinner. We never saw them once. It used to be that on HAL there would be a waiter serving these throughout the cocktail hour. When I asked a bartender about them he said "yes we do have them but we only get one tray sent to us each night now and they are gone in the first 5 minutes".
Another item that was noticed by my aunt and several others is that the towels were threadbare. Also the hand towels in the restrooms were washed but so old and stained they looked filthy. Again not a major item to fix but it does make a difference when you are washing your hands and you get a brownish looking stained towel.
While I am still on a rant, I had heard that they had done a renovation to this ship in recent years, I have to say it was not a great job. The color schemes they tried to introduce could have worked on their newer ships but what they did in the bar areas and even the rooms seems to have even made it ship look more tired. The browns, greens and oranges mixed in with the old woodwork just didn't work. The ship seemed dark and worn.
On a better note, I still found the staff throughout the ship to be attentive and friendly. Also the food on the whole was decent.
I would just say that if this is the new standard of HAL Celebrity here we come

[Krazy Kruizers]

Thank you for taking the time to write your review.

Just a couple of notes.

For Open Seating -- andd this is standard on all ships -- has been since this concept started -- you can only make dinner reservations between 5:15 - 6:15 and 7:30 - 9. The time between 6:15 and 7:30 -- you just show up.

The last night of the cruise is the Master Chef dinner and there are only 2 dining times in the main dining room -- thus NO Open Seating. The times are 5:15 and 8.

Many times on different HAL ships we have had to ask for the hot appetizers during cocktail hour.

I have noticed that the towels in the restrooms are getting pretty bad as well.

Also the towels around the pools are starting to look bad as well.

We were on the Ryndam just a few months after her dry dock and thought she looked great. The colors in our cabin were great and we were pleased to see that the batrooms had been done over.

Hope your next cruise -- on whatever line you cruise -- will be better for you.

[Boytjie]

From the title I thought this would be about the ship mechanically falling apart, but other than the sewer issue I did not see anything that would indicate retirement of the ship is called for.

The following morning I had a call from customer service to ask how my dinner was in the Pinacale Grill was. When I said "I feel there were budget cuts" believe it our not, here response was "yes we have had many budget cuts". I cannot believe an employee would admit that. I was shocked.

Would you rather have had the person lie to you? Perhaps it would have been better to state the exact things disappointed you about your experience in the Pinnacle rather than start off with budget cuts.

[Dive Master]

Sorry everything did not meet your expectations.We were on the Ryndam last February----one of our best cruises ever. I thought the ship was very pretty---reminded me of pictures from the great liners.We enjoyed the Ryndam and HAL so much we are going again this February.We are "country bumpkins" from back woods South Carolina, so maybe we are just easily pleased.

[IslandThyme]

We were on Ryndam in October and didn't have any of the problems you did, although we never ate in Pinnacle, and didn't attend any cocktail hours, so I can't comment on that part of your review.

[GeriatricNurse]

It is with regret that I am writing to say that our cruise on the Ryndam was much less enjoyable than hoped for. I am usually not a complainer but it seemed that there were a comedy of errors that started soon after we boarded the ship. It seems there have been major budget cuts which was sadly confirmed by one of HALs employees onboard. I feel that not only is the ship getting tired but it seems that the management of the ship is as well. Most everything I will mention here could be improved with very minor expense.
Firstly, we were taking my elderly dad on this cruise so he could be with his brother and his wife. This was the main perpose of this cruise. We had all booked "dine as you wish" since early seating was not available. On past cruises I have had no problem with "dine as you wish" However this time was a major exception. With in an hour after boarding I went down to try to book a table for 5 for dinner. I was told that they only had 5:15 or 8:15 available. We were trying to get something around 7pm. I then tried to book the next two nights and was told the same thing. We then decided to try going at the time we wished even though we could not book and the first two nights we had no problem at all. On the last night of the cruise we arrived at the main dining room at about 6:30 to be informed that there was NO "dine as you wish" that night and we would have to come back for the late seating or eat in the Lido. What a great way to spend the last night with relatives. There was not announcement of this anywhere. Even tought the attendant insisted it was in the daily paper we could not find this. On other HAL ships "dine as you wish was everynight.
We then tried to book the Pinacle Grill for a table of 3 for one night. Again just an hour after boarding they informed us that the two formal nights were booked so we booked the second night of the cruise. We booked a 6:30 reservation. About a hour later a called back to add two more people to the reservation and was told that if we changed we would have to come at 5:15. We rearranged our plans and did that. However, I have to point out that due to slow service we were in the Pinacle grill for over 4 hours that night and through the whole night 3 tables that could accommodate 5 people were empty the whole time. I have no idea why that could not take our booking.
I would also like to warn anyone who has dined at the Pinacale Grill in the past to be prepared for budget cuts. The meal was what I would consider a nice meal if I was judging it by the main dining room standards. However, the quality and size of the steaks has been cut, the salmon was a tiny tail portion and the 2 lambchops while flavorful were not enough. We also waited well over 30 minutes from the time they collected our plates from the starter portion until the main courses arrived and they all did not arrive together.
The following morning I had a call from customer service to ask how my dinner was in the Pinacale Grill was. When I said "I feel there were budget cuts" believe it our not, here response was "yes we have had many budget cuts". I cannot believe an employee would admit that. I was shocked.
Adding to all of the, when we boarded we had a horrible smell out on our balcany and also up at the top deck as well. We thought it was possible Tampa harbour because it went away when we were sailing. However as we slowed to dock in Key West it came right back. Initially I did not call to complain however I learned that about 20 other rooms around us had. A staff member came into our room to check it out. It seems to be sewer drains and is terrible. However it was never fixed but they did send an apology letter and a bottle of wine, which was a nice gesture.
One other item that was missing was hot appetizers during cocktail hour prior to dinner. We never saw them once. It used to be that on HAL there would be a waiter serving these throughout the cocktail hour. When I asked a bartender about them he said "yes we do have them but we only get one tray sent to us each night now and they are gone in the first 5 minutes".
Another item that was noticed by my aunt and several others is that the towels were threadbare. Also the hand towels in the restrooms were washed but so old and stained they looked filthy. Again not a major item to fix but it does make a difference when you are washing your hands and you get a brownish looking stained towel.
While I am still on a rant, I had heard that they had done a renovation to this ship in recent years, I have to say it was not a great job. The color schemes they tried to introduce could have worked on their newer ships but what they did in the bar areas and even the rooms seems to have even made it ship look more tired. The browns, greens and oranges mixed in with the old woodwork just didn't work. The ship seemed dark and worn.
On a better note, I still found the staff throughout the ship to be attentive and friendly. Also the food on the whole was decent.
I would just say that if this is the new standard of HAL Celebrity here we come

The Ryndam is next scheduled for a (14-Day) Dry Dock, in Freeport, Bahamas, November 10 to 24, 2012! ;)

[bepsf]

I found Ryndam to be in better condition than Zaandam just a few months later...

...but the S-Class are nearing the end of their planned 25 year long service lives. They have not been earning HAL a profit for years, so there's talk of sending all 4 to another line or selling them outright.

[RMLincoln]

I found Ryndam to be in better condition than Zaandam just a few months later...

...but the S-Class are nearing the end of their planned 25 year long service lives. They have not been earning HAL a profit for years, so there's talk of sending all 4 to another line or selling them outright.

Do you think they would be replaced with bigger ships? I can't imagine HAL builidng more small ships, but too bad for us and all who enjoy the closeness of these ships and feel they are the perfect size

[grandgeezer]

We just got off the Ryndam this past Sunday and thought it was in pretty good shape. The elevators could use a little work but everything else was fine.

[Typhoon1]

I think the days of ships that size are long gone.

In the current market, bigger is better, so the lines can generate more revenue.

[innlady1]

I found Ryndam to be in better condition than Zaandam just a few months later...

...but the S-Class are nearing the end of their planned 25 year long service lives. They have not been earning HAL a profit for years, so there's talk of sending all 4 to another line or selling them outright.

Say it isn't so, Brian! :( As much as we enjoy the Vista class, we really enjoy the Maasdam...and I've been looking at the Ryndam for next winter...because I love their itineraries. I first look at the itinerary...the ship doesn't matter.

[sail7seas]

Breaks my heart to even think of Maasdam leaving HAL......
I won't even think about it.

[luvcruisn']

Another item that was noticed by my aunt and several others is that the towels were threadbare. Also the hand towels in the restrooms were washed but so old and stained they looked filthy.

On my Veendam cruise in January I also noticed that the towels in the public restrooms were threadbare, although the ones I saw were not stained. It is a small thing, but I did miss the lovely, thick hand towels HAL used to have in the restrooms.

[English_in_Spain]

OP - slightly off topic.

Might I suggest that you use white spacing to separate your paragraphs to make it easier to read. Especially on long posts like this one

For example ...

It is with regret that I am writing to say that our cruise on the Ryndam was much less enjoyable than hoped for.

I am usually not a complainer but it seemed that there were a comedy of errors that started soon after we boarded the ship. It seems there have been major budget cuts which was sadly confirmed by one of HALs employees onboard.

I feel that not only is the ship getting tired but it seems that the management of the ship is as well. Most everything I will mention here could be improved with very minor expense.

etc


Thanks

[G&G]

Sorry for your bad cruise experience on the Ryndam. It was our favorite HAL ship.

It was refreshiing that a HAL crew member admitted to many budget cuts on HAL since it has been speculated and taked about many times on the CC forum.

[Randyk47]

While we're pulling back from cruising with HAL in general I'd have to say the loss of the S and R class ships would be probably the final "nail in the coffin". I realize there are folks out there who just love the bigger Vista and now the Signature class ships and have their favorites within those classes but not us.

[GmaPajama]

We sailed the Ryndam a year ago (it was our second Ryndam cruise) and found her to still be an amazing ship. I often puzzle over why she doesn't get more praise here on CC. I can't remember a single problem with that wonderful ship - or with her crew. She is among my favorite ships.

[sail7seas]

We have always liked Ryndam and enjoyed a number of cruises on her. I agree she doesn't receive enough praise here.

Last we sailed her, she looked great but it has been a while.
She is actually newer than Maasdam by a year or two.

[Pete Jackson]

There is no dining as you wish on the last night because they are doing their Baked Alaska/Master Chef's Dinner routine. Most posters here find it corny and might well go to an alternate dining venue. It would be helpful if the staff would let you know.

If you want to cruise Celebrity, that is an excellent line, but has some trouble (more than HAL does) maintaining a consistent product from ship to ship. Check their forum here on CC about the ship you wish to book.

[sail7seas]

There is usually a card on the table the night before advising there will be two fixed dining times on the last night. It is easy to overlook it and not read but I know they usually place it on every table.

[Loreto]

Our first HAL cruise in 2003 was a 10 day on the Ryndam. While it was a disaster in a number of ways, we loved the size of the ship and the friendly crew, and took 2 more cruises on her.

Back in 2003 there was a sewer problem, and I guess it has never been resolved.

We noticed the towels were frayed and well used in our SS suite on our recent Oosterdam cruise.

It would be tragic if HAL eliminated the S and R class ships.

Karen

[Krazy Kruizers]

There is no dining as you wish on the last night because they are doing their Baked Alaska/Master Chef's Dinner routine. Most posters here find it corny and might well go to an alternate dining venue. It would be helpful if the staff would let you know.

If you want to cruise Celebrity, that is an excellent line, but has some trouble (more than HAL does) maintaining a consistent product from ship to ship. Check their forum here on CC about the ship you wish to book.


On all of our last cruises on different ships -- there has been a card on the table in the dining room the night before the Master Chef Dinner informing everyone that there will only be 2 dining times and what time you have to be in the dining room. Those in Open Seating are asked to select one of the 2 times that they wish to have dinner.

Now for those who have not dinned in the dining room the night before the MCD -- there is also a notice in the Explorer daily program.

[innlady1]

Thinking of booking the ms Ryndam in '13 to the Caribbean...it's a wonderful itinerary...similar...but not the same...to what the ms Maasdam has done last winter and this....

[GPoll189]

While we're pulling back from cruising with HAL in general I'd have to say the loss of the S and R class ships would be probably the final "nail in the coffin". I realize there are folks out there who just love the bigger Vista and now the Signature class ships and have their favorites within those classes but not us.

I am sorry that I have to disagree with your statement. As Brian has said the S class ships are nearing the end of their service lives. These ships as well as the R class ships are big money losers. It would save money and possible HAL would make more money if they got rid of the older tonnage.

If you look around at other mass market lines especially the direct competitor of HAL which was Celebrity for that last couple of years ships are getting bigger. A ship with more passengers can bring in more revenue to off set the cost of running a ship. There isn't enough berths on the S class that would help off set the cost of these ships now.

Deep in my gut I feel once the economy has showed that it has stablized or improving HAL and parent company Carnival Corp will annouce new tonnage for HAL. I think that once the Panama Canal is near completion would be another time a new ship will be announced. Once this new ship comes on line you can garentee it will be bigger than the Signature Class and will spell the beginning of the end to the S class ships.

[Himself]

The Rotterdam V came on line in 1959 and lasted til 1997. There is no reason to retire the Ryndam as she came on line in 1994. That is less than 20 years ago.

[Randyk47]

I am sorry that I have to disagree with your statement. As Brian has said the S class ships are nearing the end of their service lives. These ships as well as the R class ships are big money losers. It would save money and possible HAL would make more money if they got rid of the older tonnage.

If you look around at other mass market lines especially the direct competitor of HAL which was Celebrity for that last couple of years ships are getting bigger. A ship with more passengers can bring in more revenue to off set the cost of running a ship. There isn't enough berths on the S class that would help off set the cost of these ships now.

Deep in my gut I feel once the economy has showed that it has stablized or improving HAL and parent company Carnival Corp will annouce new tonnage for HAL. I think that once the Panama Canal is near completion would be another time a new ship will be announced. Once this new ship comes on line you can garentee it will be bigger than the Signature Class and will spell the beginning of the end to the S class ships.

I don't disagree that the S and R ships are nearing their service lives as main stream cruise ships. What I was saying is that we prefer those ships and since we don't particularly like the larger ships the loss of the smaller ships would probably be the end of our HAL cruising. That's our preference so not much to disagree with. :)

[GPoll189]

Randy,

Sorry for the misunderstanding of your post. When you mentioned "final nail in the coffin," I thought you were talking about HAL going out of business and not your own cruising.

At the age of 32 I am myself trying to find the line that best suits me. I really enjoyed my recent voyage on the Oasis of the Seas and I am planning to go back on her in the future. Over the many years of cruising I use to cruise with my parents and they loved Holland America. I still consider Holland America my home away from home, but as someone who is my age and looking for things to do on a cruise, Holland America doesn't have that much entertainment compared to other ships. If I need a relaxing low key vacation I will still travel Holland but if I want some excitement there are other cruise lines out there.

Holland America will continue to be what they are even if they get larger ships. Its what the have been for over 100 years and it is very hard to change that. However, they do need to change to stay current with the industry around them and the little ships aren't what people are interested in anymore.

[Typhoon1]

The "older" HAL ships seem to get overlooked quite often by potential cruisers.

[iancal]

HAL is in business to make money, they are not a charity.

While I have no idea if this or any other particular ship is making money one thing is certain. If a ship is not making money, or loosing money consistently then it will be released from service.

Ship owners/operators do not stay in business for extended periods of time by accumulating operating losses.

[hypercafe]

The smaller ships can have advantages as to ports visited, getting to know the crew and pass however they most likely have a higher overhead per pass number making them cost more to run. Who would be willing to pay more for the same trip on a smaller ship? For example, a trip was $200 per day for a large HAL ship and $300 for one of the small ships. Same trip, same room.

[crusinbanjo]

The smaller ships can have advantages as to ports visited, getting to know the crew and pass however they most likely have a higher overhead per pass number making them cost more to run. Who would be willing to pay more for the same trip on a smaller ship? For example, a trip was $200 per day for a large HAL ship and $300 for one of the small ships. Same trip, same room.

If you look at the cost per day, Prinsendam is very much more expensive than the larger ships. Mrs Banjo & I are looking at 2 different IT's one on Prinsendam, the other on Ryndam. Similar, although not the same IT, In round figures, Ryndam is $3000 for a 7 day ($428 per day) while Prinsendam is $10000 for 14 days ($715 per day). These are not exact numbers, but are for similar categories.

Mrs Banjo & I really prefer the smaller ships, we have cruised about every IT in every part of the world, always on small ships. In fact, Veedam is one of the largest ship we have cruised on. If and when HAL retires the small ships, that wil be the end of our cruising with HAL.

I hope they can find ways to keep the Prinsendam, R & S class in the fleet.

[Randyk47]

Randy,

Sorry for the misunderstanding of your post. When you mentioned "final nail in the coffin," I thought you were talking about HAL going out of business and not your own cruising.

At the age of 32 I am myself trying to find the line that best suits me. I really enjoyed my recent voyage on the Oasis of the Seas and I am planning to go back on her in the future. Over the many years of cruising I use to cruise with my parents and they loved Holland America. I still consider Holland America my home away from home, but as someone who is my age and looking for things to do on a cruise, Holland America doesn't have that much entertainment compared to other ships. If I need a relaxing low key vacation I will still travel Holland but if I want some excitement there are other cruise lines out there.

Holland America will continue to be what they are even if they get larger ships. Its what the have been for over 100 years and it is very hard to change that. However, they do need to change to stay current with the industry around them and the little ships aren't what people are interested in anymore.

I certainly didn't mean to imply or think that HAL was in trouble and in danger of going under. While I may or may not agree with some of the changes they've made to their product I do understand they're trying to adjust to the changing demographics and corresponding changes in interests. There's also the pure economics of dealing with increasing operating costs, be it fuel or food or labor or whatever.

Separate from this discussion but related, and I guess I was bored, I was playing around with inflation rates and the such the other day. Since cruising is on my mind as we plan our Med cruise I compared what I paid for a cruise in 1995 versus 2011. I was able to compare pretty much "apples to apples" as my baseline was a 10-day cruise on the Ryndam in the Caribbean in 1995 versus basically the same cruise this year on the Maasdam in the same cabin category. According to the charts I should have paid some 45% more for this year's cruise but I paid only 20% more. I actually have the cruise documents from 1995 and this year so I have the exact price but I don't know or remember what it cost us to actually get to the cruise so I didn't factor those costs into my calculations. Interesting that a company, cruise line or whatever, can continue to provide basically, or at least pretty darn close, to the same product at significantly below the inflation rate. Increases in productivity and cost cutting notwithstanding that's really pretty amazing. Obviously it's a great deal for us as we've been very fortunate to also see our personal income more than double during those years which brings the relative cost, or what some economists call the opportunity cost, to us way below the 1995 level.

[grandgeezer]

On all of our last cruises on different ships -- there has been a card on the table in the dining room the night before the Master Chef Dinner informing everyone that there will only be 2 dining times and what time you have to be in the dining room. Those in Open Seating are asked to select one of the 2 times that they wish to have dinner.

Now for those who have not dinned in the dining room the night before the MCD -- there is also a notice in the Explorer daily program.

We just got off the Ryndam last Sunday, after doing a 14 day Caribbean cruise ( 2 seven day cruises, back to back) and this wasn't true in our case. The first week, there was no Master Chef's dinner, the Baked Alaska just showed up on the menu the last night. It was served by the piece with no big fanfare. The second week there was the Master Chef's dinner with all the hoopla that goes with it. We had anytime dining and people just came and left just like any other night in the dining room. There were people just getting their appetizers when the show began. The was no announcement nor did we notice anything in the daily program, we just happened to eat early and was there for the whole thing.

[RuthC]

Who would be willing to pay more for the same trip on a smaller ship?
I would.
If the choice is between a cruise on the Prinsendam/S- or R-ship and a Vista/Signature ship, the smaller ship will get my $$$$$ every time.

[oofroggie]

I take most mishaps on ship as just another adventure. If my life,house,etc are not perfect on land why would I expect to be so at sea.

[bepsf]

The Rotterdam V came on line in 1959 and lasted til 1997. There is no reason to retire the Ryndam as she came on line in 1994. That is less than 20 years ago.



The modern ships by Fincantieri were assembled to nowhere near the quality of Rotterdam V - The service life for the Fincantieri ships was intended to be a mere 20-25 years. While the S Class may not be sent to the scrappers in Alang anytime soon - Their service lives for HAL are nearing the end.

Word is that CCL/HAL are looking at shipyards in the Far East for future HAL tonnage, which will be significantly larger than the Vista/Signatures.

[Tampa Girl]

The modern ships by Fincantieri were assembled to nowhere near the quality of Rotterdam V - The service life for the Fincantieri ships was intended to be a mere 20-25 years. While the S Class may not be sent to the scrappers in Alang anytime soon - Their service lives for HAL are nearing the end.

Word is that CCL/HAL are looking at shipyards in the Far East for future HAL tonnage, which will be significantly larger than the Vista/Signatures.


And, I wonder - and fear - what will become of HAL's ships in Tampa? They are not now bringing in the Vista class ships, perhaps because of their size. However, I believe that the Carnival, NCL and RCCL ships currently serving Tampa all have ships larger than the "S" class. I have not seen the actual height comparisons between the various ships, and height is one of the problems, given the Sunshine Skyway Bridge. Any thoughts, anyone?

[mmr923]

I know a lot can happen in 8 months, but we had a wonderful experience on the Ryndam in April as a family of 4 (2 adults 2 teens). Our teens had been on NCL and RC before, and commented on how much prettier they thought the Ryndam was! They also took note of the staff constantly varnishing the teak or touching up the hull. They were impressed!

We ate once at the Pinnacle, and my son, who can eat amazing amounts of food, could BARELY finish his steak, it was so large. He thought it was the most delicious steak he had ever eaten. We all had very good food and were very pleased with the service. We at the first night of the trip and had no problem with reservations.

The Master Chef Dinner was done on the last night, and we were presented with RSVP cards the night before to state whether or not we would attend and, if so, at what time. Neither time appealed to the 4 of us, so we chose to eat in the Cannaletto that evening.

Finally, DH and I frequented the Ocean Bar for happy hour on several evenings and, when we did, we received hot hors d'ouvres.

We loved the Ryndam and still have a little "paper and brandy cork" sculpture that the two bartenders at the Ocean Bar made for us (Jay and MaiMai - they were the best!). We will always remember that trip, the Ryndam, and her staff very fondly.

[Pettifogger]

I don't know that the days of ships the size of the Ryndam are long gone.

My impression is that HAL can now charge appreciably more for cabins on the Prinsendam and the Amsterdam than on the Eurodam or Nieuw Amsterdam. (I know the Prinsendam and Amsterdam frequently offer Grand cruises, but their size may have been why they were chosen for Grand Cruises.)

Since I don't know what the comparable costs are, I don't know which of the four ships are the more profitable, but the fact that financially bigger was better three or four years ago doesn't necessarily mean that bigger will be better three or four years from now. (If I knew for sure, I might be hounded by some who would like me to share that knowledge.)

I'm price sensitive, but I'm prepared to pay the difference to cruise on the Prinsendam or the Amsterdam (or other ships of that size.) I hope enough others are to keep them available.

[iancal]

I suspect that one of the biggest issues for HAL pertaining to these older ships is not what you can see, but rather what you cannot. HVAC, plumbing, and power systems are overdue or coming due for some major upgrades that are not only very costly but may require the ships to be out of service for longer than normal drydock periods.

My guess is that HAL is trying to squeeze as much revenue out of these ships as they possilbly can and then disposing of them without having to make those significant capital upgrades.

[Buttongirl]

Took the Dec 11 cruise and experienced the smell problem as well. Forgot to not in my rant and agree, it is an awful odor. Couldn't really use the balcony. Yes, the Ryndam is tired. Agree with all you had to say and will think twice before booking on Holland again.

[bepsf]

I suspect that one of the biggest issues for HAL pertaining to these older ships is not what you can see, but rather what you cannot. HVAC, plumbing, and power systems are overdue or coming due for some major upgrades that are not only very costly but may require the ships to be out of service for longer than normal drydock periods.

That's exactly the issue - as well as swimming pools that spontaneously empty themselves into the MDR (Ryndam, a few years back)...
...and an insufficient number of cabins to house the numbers of passengers to make for a profitable ship.

This is largely why Veendam was enlarged a couple years back, and why Costa is enlarging Costa Romantica (which is the same platform/hull as the S-Class ships)

http://www.kreuzfahrtberater.de/img/schiffe/costa_romantica.jpg
Costa Romantica (Before)

http://www.kreuzfahrt-ticket.de/Bilder/schiffe/2321-costa-neo-roamntica-hauptbild-kreuzfahrt-ticket.jpg
Costa neoRomantica (After)

[Viesczy]

I found Ryndam to be in better condition than Zaandam just a few months later...

...but the S-Class are nearing the end of their planned 25 year long service lives. They have not been earning HAL a profit for years, so there's talk of sending all 4 to another line or selling them outright.

Brian's right about their age/life, they've seen PLENTY of miles. All good things end.

Personally I find the S class boats claustrophically small, every time I turn around I'm at the stern or the bow. They truly feel like boats to me now; like I'm going to need to man the oars and they're going put Gene Krupa on the drum to get us up to cruising speed.

Derek

[jakkojakko]

. They truly feel like boats to me now


And that's exactly why I like them.

[iancal]

Whatever HAL decides to do they will have to start the process soon since all four ships either need extensive upgrading or replacement.

I would expect to see announcement of an extended drydock/refit plan for at least one of them over the next 18 months or a replacement announcement-ie a new ship or building program announced to phase out 1 or more of these ships.

[Swelldame]

Brian's right about their age/life, they've seen PLENTY of miles. All good things end.

Personally I find the S class boats claustrophically small, every time I turn around I'm at the stern or the bow. They truly feel like boats to me now; like I'm going to need to man the oars and they're going put Gene Krupa on the drum to get us up to cruising speed.

Derek

Funny; I feel the same way about the larger ships. After being on the Maasdam and Statendam and having the sense of spaciousness we didn't enjoy the Eurodam at all because:

-The verandah staterooms were smaller, and their ceilings lower.
-The grand feeling of the atrium was lost due to the smaller circumference of the staircase
-The pools and Lido were horribly crowded with one-third more people in the same amount of space (actually less, due to the space-hogging cabanas).
-The MDR had a very low ceiling and has ceased to be a beautiful 2-storey room.
-The Lido restaurant was so long it wasn't practical to get around carrying plates, but at the same time still wasn't big enough to accommodate the increased number of pax.
-Those hallways! I felt like I was in a mine just walking to my stateroom.
-At the end of the cruise we were still seeing "new" faces with so many people and staff on board. The personal attention and getting to know people was lost.
-We always had the feeling we were squeezed into a floating rat race.

It was wonderful spending 15 days on the recent Rotterdam TA being pampered and spoiled on a ship that felt special, and not like just another average Marriott hotel.

[mainelycruising]

My first post!

The S Class ships have done sterling work and my family and I have loved them, but there is a time and a point where all good things must end. Many of us love the smaller size but with prices continuing to fall against expenses that are rising, every penny must be spent wisely, and this usually means more pax per ship. I would expect that the S class ships will (in due course) be sold off to European cruise lines, such as Thomson Cruises, which already operates three ex-HAL ships: the old Noordam and Nieuw Amsterdam (sister ships), and the old Westerdam (ex-Homeric), all of which are getting a bit long in the tooth (over 30 years) and expensive to operate.

I was aboard the Ryndam before her last refit in February and I remember thinking that this ship looked tired. I hope she received a well deserve sprucing up!

[crusinbanjo]

And that's exactly why I like them.

Same here, Mrs Banjo & I really dislike the floating resorts, they are just too "Dam" big for our tastes. We enjoy the Prinsendam, Veendam, et al & as I stated before if and when these ships are gone Mrs Banjo & I will, sadly, be gone as well.

[Randyk47]

It would be a with a great deal of sadness to see any of the S class ships leave the HAL fleet but the Ryndam would be especially sad. Years ago the Ryndam was my first real cruise. She only a few cruises old, I still have my Ryndam inaugural year tie, when I first cruised on her. A few years later and my new bride and I honeymooned on the Ryndam. She'll obviously always have a special place in my heart and mind.

[Viesczy]

That is the charm of HAL, boats for different sizes for all different tastes!

I will agree that they should continue to have boats and ships, look @ the more intimate places you can get to with a boat than a ship.

Derek

[Tampa Girl]

That is the charm of HAL, boats for different sizes for all different tastes!

I will agree that they should continue to have boats and ships, look @ the more intimate places you can get to with a boat than a ship.

Derek


What, pray tell, is your definition of a "boat" versus a "ship?"

[bepsf]

Brian's right about their age/life, they've seen PLENTY of miles. All good things end.

Personally I find the S class boats claustrophically small, every time I turn around I'm at the stern or the bow. They truly feel like boats to me now; like I'm going to need to man the oars and they're going put Gene Krupa on the drum to get us up to cruising speed.

Derek

That's how I thought I would feel when I was planning my first cruise aboard Ryndam - but I came to appreciate her intimate size and spacious feeling without the crowds, small public rooms and overall sense of congestion aboard Eurodam.

[sail7seas]

It saddens me whenever I think of Maasdam leaving the fleet. I hope it will not be in the near future. She has provided DH and me with so many wonderful memories, so many friends we treasure, so many places she has taken us.......

Long may she sail for HAL and long may we sail upon (in) her. :)

Common sense tells us the "S" ships may have limited days sailing under her current flag.
Not only does she not have enough cabins to bring in more revenue but the older the ship, the more maintenance, the higher the bills, the lower the profit.

[flashopper]

Welcome to Cruise Critic. You will love it.

Chris

[sun~]

What, pray tell, is your definition of a "boat" versus a "ship?"

My FIL a retired RCN Commander told me the definition of a boat vs a ship. "a boat is what you take when the ship sinks" :D

[Keith Rita]

Not Yet!:p:p

[tcook052]

That's how I thought I would feel when I was planning my first cruise aboard Ryndam - but I came to appreciate her intimate size and spacious feeling without the crowds, small public rooms and overall sense of congestion aboard Eurodam.

After having been on the Zuiderdam and Eurodam I'll admit to feeling curious as to whether I'll appreciate a smaller ship like Ryndam but will find out in a few short weeks.

The size issue however concerns me less than the relative upkeep of an older ship and I trust HAL is taking good care of Ryndam and the improvements made last year will have kept her in good repair.

[Viesczy]

What, pray tell, is your definition of a "boat" versus a "ship?"

Anything that is shorter than twice my longest off hand home run shot. If it is less than that, it is a boat. My longest was just over 445', so anything that is less than twice that is a "boat", anything more than that is a "ship".

Another easy way is by class size, if it isn't as long as an Iowa class battlewagon it is only a "boat". ;)

Derek

[Kay240]

Thinking of booking the ms Ryndam in '13 to the Caribbean...it's a wonderful itinerary...similar...but not the same...to what the ms Maasdam has done last winter and this....

Sheila,

Happy Holiday!

Bert and I will be on Ryndam's 2/17/13 Caribbean cruise... (as well as the 3/4/12).

Karen

[Sir PMP]

Whatever HAL decides to do they will have to start the process soon since all four ships either need extensive upgrading or replacement.

I would expect to see announcement of an extended drydock/refit plan for at least one of them over the next 18 months or a replacement announcement-ie a new ship or building program announced to phase out 1 or more of these ships.


Please, no upgrading but replacement of all 4 by hopefully Volendam size ships (I know I am dreaming)....

[Kay240]

We have just reached our 4* Mariner status (and free laundry), but if HAL's smaller ships disappear from their fleet (with no similar sized replacements) I know we will decrease the number of cruises we take. We were on the Nieuw Amsterdam in October (and will be again in January) and although we found the ship to be very attractive, we were uncomfortable with the larger size.

There were previous comments about the need for smaller ships to navigate certain itineraries. Those itineraries give HAL an advantage over many of their competitors. In addition, with so many cruisers who have traveled to all the "usual" places, an "out of the way" port becomes an attraction which brings business to HAL.

[tcook052]

In addition, with so many cruisers who have traveled to all the "usual" places, an "out of the way" port becomes an attraction which brings business to HAL.


That assumes, of course, that folks who're used to newer, bigger ships will be willing to move down in scale which I'm not sure is correct. The Ryndam doesn't, for example, offer mini-fridges in all categories which while a little thing to many may sway others used to those kinds of ammenities.

Also the "smaller is better" mantra IMHO really only works in niche cruise lines, not massive mainstream big cruise lines like HAL. Azamara and Oceania come to mind and have staked out their corner of that market with later departures or overnight stays, upscale country club atmosphere, more inclusive kind of cruising.

[Ahhh]

I was fortunate enough to have sailed on her last April. Here is part of my review, which speaks mainly about the ship itself, rather than the food and service. I have to say that the Ryndam is a wonderful ship as far as size. It's perfect for getting around on, without getting lost. I never felt like I had to wait in line for anything. Decor wise, for me, was a different story.


Having been on two of HAL's larger ships, Westerdam in 2/06, & Zuiderdam in 2/08, I was looking forward to sailing on one of her smaller ones. The larger ships felt like a compromise to me as far as what the HAL loyalist really wanted - too large and too new. Of course, these were just my biased feelings. Now, three years later, I had the opportunity to sail on the Ryndam, out of Tampa.

This was my 53rd cruise so, I had quite a bit to compare it to. I like both smaller and larger vessels with Celebrity Mercury, Disney Wonder, RCI Radiance of the Seas, and Celebrity Solstice as some of my favorites. When I compare ships, I generally like to observe deck layout, traffic flow, decor and overall ambiance in the public spaces as well as cabins. I certainly pay attention to food and staff, but they seem a bit more subjective and can vary by sailing on each vessel. I don't take into consideration ports or embarkation docks in comparing ships, as they would basically be the same for any ship.

As usual, I was excited on embarkation day. I felt less enthusiastic about my first few minutes on the Ryndam, heading towards our cabin. It felt like an old ship, not an older ship, but an old ship. The hallway to our cabin (on Deck 6 - Lower Promenade Deck) felt bleak, institutional and depressing. It had sewer odors, combined with stale cigarette smoke. The paneling on the walls looked like what I would expect on a 1950's ship even though it was probably designed in the 80's (another decade not known for esthetically pleasing design). The art on the walls, copies of older HAL ship photos, seemed cheap, even though the subject matter was something I was very much interested in. Perhaps it was the cheap framing they were in? The overall feeling was of cheaply framed posters, rather than art. Later in the week I discovered that we had the best of the hallway art on the ship! I was grateful for being on Deck 6.

I was not sure what to expect when we got to our cabin, but I really liked it. It was an aft facing Oceanview, looking across the Promenade walkway to the wake of the ship. We had access to the outdoor Promenade from a public door a few steps from our cabin, which made it convenient to get fresh air. I much preferred this route to avoid the unpleasant odors I encountered in the hallway.

It was wider than a standard cabin by about 12-18 inches. It was evident that it had been remodeled in recent past with new carpets, curtains, and upholstery, mattresses, and bedding, and a flat screen TV. There was plenty of closet space and storage space. It had a safe for valuables, but there was no refrigerator.

The bathroom had been completely remodeled too. It had new flooring, tub, tile and countertop to name a few. It is all done in calming earth tones and has a spa-like feeling to it. You can tell they paid attention to details and quality. It is very well done.

There are many areas of the ship that are well thought out as far as design and decor. Some that come to mind are the Rotterdam Dining Room, Pinnacle Grill, Canaletto, Crows Nest, Ocean Bar, Lido Bar, Greenhouse Spa, The Oasis, Marabella, and guest cabins. Others seem well executed as far as either design or decor: Mix, the main theater, and the Wajang Theater. Still others miss the mark completely: The Shops, Art Gallery, Explorations Cafe, Explorer's Lounge, the Casino, the Atrium, Champagne Bar, Sea View Pool, and the Lido Pool.

On the Ryndam, most areas do not relate well to their neighboring areas. The ambiance in Mix is spoiled by the ultra bright Wallmart type, florescent lighting of The Shops. We always felt that we needed sunglasses when walking by. The lighting does not feel conducive to shopping, and certainly detracts from Mix.

There are too many different types of carpeting everywhere, that do not relate to neighboring areas, such as around the elevators, stairs and hallways. There seems to be no consistency to anything. For instance, the Explorers Lounge has 3 different types of wall paneling on it's three walls. To me this says "Let's just use what we have", rather than "Let's make it right".

Even cabin doors in the hallways have no logic to them. Some were of one color while some were another. Decorative wall panels in the hallways are the same way - again, no rhyme nor reason as to why they chose what they did. It seems that there is no forethought into the design, just "Well, we have some of this, so let's throw it up on the wall." I guess I just expect more when I go on a cruise ship. I have become spoiled by the competition.

The overall effect of the ship is one of inconsistency. The feeling I came away with was of, "Let's just put it here", "Let's just use what we have, since we have extra", and "Let's just make do". Many things feel like an afterthought, which gives the overall look of the ship one of a patchwork quilt, made up of mismatched leftovers. Even the light colored "wood" paneling that is used everywhere, feels like it is better suited to a 70's trailer.

I did like the extensive amount of antiques used on the ship. A number of them stand out: Two batik wall hangings of people, horses and coaches in two of the stairways; an Asian inspired chess set in a glass case in Explorations Cafe; copies of decorative panels from the original Maasdam; large copy of a smaller oil painting that occupies a large wall in Explorer's Lounge; the large fountain in the Atrium.

Although there are many antiques I found interesting in the public spaces, they are not showcased to highlight their true beauty. A few examples are: All of the showcases with 16th, 17th, and 18th objects could be greatly enhanced with proper lighting and better signage. There is a beautiful life size classical sandstone statue of a woman from the 18th century, but it is against a background of jarringly bright gold tile. A beautiful black sideboard is plopped down against a dark wood background in the Explorer's Lounge.

There is a lot of wasted space on this ship. There are spaces that make no sense, such as the atrium area on Deck 6. There is a large Italian style Fountain that rises up into the deck above (deck 7's Atrium area). It is impressive and is one of my favorite pieces of art on the ship. Unfortunately it sits in the middle of a large open area that feels like wasted space.

There are no windows on this deck to be able to sit and enjoy, not only the fountain, but a view. The space has two large desks sitting in it. The desks are there for no particular reason. You get the feeling that they did not know what to do with them so they stashed them there.

I know this area was once occupied by escalators going to the deck above, but it feels like they took the escalators out to save money, on maintaining them, and did not know what to do with the space and left it empty. Odd, is how it made me feel. It is not an area that you feel you want to hang out in, despite the beautiful fountain. I found more examples of this thru out the ship. It feels like there was no thought given to these spaces and makes the ship, as a whole, feel like it was kind of a patchwork quilt of scraps.

The two story Rotterdam Dining Room is quite nice. I do not think they have changed anything other than perhaps chairs, upholstery, and drapes since the ship first launched. The ceiling is covered in large (Italian?) glass "flowers" all of the same shape and opalescent, off white color. It is very well done I think. The tables are spaced such that you never feel crowded or right next to your neighbors.

The main theater, Showroom At Sea, is two stories and it was reconfigured (during the 2010 retrofit) to resemble more of a cabaret theater than what I am used to on other ships. It seems they took out the first three or four rows of seats and put in small bar tables and chairs. It has an intimate, cabaret feel to it. It is done in red tones and I really like it despite some very bad sight lines from a lot of the balcony seats.

The Wajang Movie Theater/Culinary Arts Center, on deck 7, is a very comfortable, large theater, yet has a small screen for showing movies. Having been on the Disney Wonder recently, I got spoiled with their full size movie screen. They also use this space for cooking demos.

I found the Card Room, which is next to the Cinema, to be a bleak room with about 5 tables & chairs, and no windows. It felt rather claustrophobic. I prefer Royal Caribbean's game rooms, with their great views overlooking the ocean.

Another area that feels like wasted space is outside the Wajang Theater. There is a wide hallway with "auction art" on the walls. It goes on for about 25 feet and leads to a door that says "Crew Only". Next to that area is what is billed as the "Art Gallery" - remnants of the Park West Art Auctions that nobody wanted or bought. The area is just wasted space and inconsistency, once again, with the overall design of the ship.

The Pinnacle Grill is something that was added to the Ryndam. It was not part of the original design. Part of the space was previously a small room extension to the upper dining room. The new space is very nicely appointed with an intimate feel to it. I think it is better than the ones on the Vista Class ships as it affords much more intimacy and privacy. It is not really well equipped to hamper noises from neighboring areas though, which tend to impair the overall ambiance a bit.

The Lido Bar, next to the pool, was one of my favorite areas on the Ryndam. It has a resort feel to it with a retractable roof that lets in fresh air and sunshine but allows for some shady areas as well. The tables and chairs are sort of wicker and comfortable. The Lido Pool area itself feels very dated to me, compared to pool areas on other lines.

Explorations Cafe consists of a coffee bar with snacks, a puzzle area, some computer terminals, and the library, which is chopped up into three sections. There is no cohesiveness to any of it and feels very disjointed and unconnected. The best part of the area were the Aames Chairs and Ottomans, which are extremely comfortable, and were very popular for relaxing guests. They are situated so you have a wonderful view out the windows.

A special feature about this ship is the full wrap around Promenade Deck that is teak and has wonderful wooden lounge chairs that are reminiscent of old ocean liners. There is no jogging allowed on this deck so it is perfect for enjoying a stroll, reading, or just lounging in one of the chairs and enjoying the view with the sound of the waves against the ship.

Joggers can avail themselves of Deck 12, above the Lido Pool. There is a great, yet smaller, deck for walking or jogging with wonderful views. There are a couple of areas with lounge chairs for relaxing that do not interfere with jogging/walking. Unlike the Vista Class of HAL ships, there are expansive views to be had over the Lido Pool area. There is also Deck 13, above the Crows Nest for great views!

Greenhouse Spa and Gym was one of the most appealing spas I have been to on a ship. It feels like an oasis of calm. I believe it was redone during the 2010 enhancement of the ship. I used the gym daily and I found it to be quite large for a small ship with adequate equipment and plenty of space for stretching.

Too bad The Oasis is for 'teens only' as it is very enticing. It has "palm trees", hammocks, a hot tub, and a waterfall. It is very private and has great views as it is on the topmost deck towards the rear of the ship, overlooking the Sea View Pool. We felt jealous that we could not use it.

Mix is actually a combination of many areas: Piano Bar, Champagne Bar, Martini Bar, and Sports Bar. There are several seating areas so you could have an intimate conversation if you wished. There is even an area next to the aisle (for foot traffic) that has high back chairs and cocktail tables looking out the windows. These are in four groupings of two and offers surprisingly good privacy. Mix appears to work well as each different area seems to be popular depending on the time of day. The only area that did not seem to work well to me was the Champagne Bar. It appears as though it was squeezed in. There is no real bar to sit at and, although there is a spot that looks like a bar, there is no bartender there. I guess you are supposed to sit in one of the lounge chairs and order a glass of champagne from one of the servers, of which I saw few, if any.

During the day the Sports Bar area seemed to have a loyal following, especially since there are TV monitors. Also there are interactive cocktail tables with seats around them. They seemed to be popular with different age groups, and families, and an area to sit for a beer or two.

I could not decide if I liked the Casino or not. It felt like a low budget Vegas Casino of the 70's or 80's but, in a way, that is cool. There is no real theme to it as I have experienced on most other ships. There is a walk way through the middle of it which makes it feel like an afterthought. Unfortunately, I was unable to enjoy the Casino because of the cigarette smoke, even though there were few smokers on board. My guess is that the older ships do not have the same air filtration systems as the newer ones.

The Crows Nest, which is the largest lounge, and overlooks the bow of the ship from the topmost deck, was too smoky smelling to be able to enjoy, even with nobody in there. It's a shame because it was my favorite lounge on the ship as far as ambiance, even aside from the great view.

I never used Ocean View Pool, although it was quite popular. I found that it lacked any escape from the sun. It could use some umbrellas or cabanas. It also seemed to be a favorite area for those who liked to smoke.

There are laundry rooms on three of the decks which is great for longer voyages or to iron a shirt in a pinch.

The shops on board the ship are uninspiring. They seem small to me except for The Shops next to Mix, which has the horribly bright lights. Marabella, which is like a private jewelry store, is very well designed.

I like that HAL has cloth towels in the restrooms and fresh flowers thru out their ships.

Even though this is not my favorite ship, I had a wonderful cruise. There are many things I liked about the voyage that far outweighed any minor issues. We had great service, good food, met interesting people and had a lot of fun!

In context to this thread, I felt as though HAL did not want to spend any more money than they did to do a complete makeover of this vessel. That alone gave me the impression that this ships "time was approaching". For size alone, I would pick Celebrity Century, or any of the Vision Class ships with RCI. They seem more updated and have a consistency to the overall appeal of the ship.

[Tampa Girl]

My FIL a retired RCN Commander told me the definition of a boat vs a ship. "a boat is what you take when the ship sinks" :D


Cute!

[jimmy2x]

"I was fortunate enough to have sailed on her last April. Here is part of my review, which speaks mainly about the ship itself...."

This has to be one of the best and most honest reviews I've ever read. We were on the Ryndam for our 1st cruise and as such it will always hold a special place in our hearts. That said, we absolutely fell in love with Noordam last year - much better flow and some great shaded area around the aft pool. I am aware that there are many who really love the older, smaller ships and respect their opinion. For us, we've found that while we may love the "idea" of the S and R class ships, the reality is that they just cannot offer what the somewhat larger, newer ships can. Obviously YMMV.:)

[bepsf]

...the "smaller is better" mantra IMHO really only works in niche cruise lines, not massive mainstream big cruise lines like HAL. Azamara and Oceania come to mind and have staked out their corner of that market with later departures or overnight stays, upscale country club atmosphere, more inclusive kind of cruising.

Such lines also can hold the line on the higher fares which make operating smaller ships profitable by maintaining the higher standards of service and maintenance which make such fares reasonable.

Unfortunately, HAL has long abandoned that market niche...

[iancal]

I suspect that these ships have higher operating costs than their competition's newer ships and as well as an engineering infrastructure that is groaning for a very costly upgrade.

Tough spot to be in. They may only have two choices-commission new ships of a similar size and really compete in that market niche or move to larger ships.

[patfla06]

We went on the Veendham in Nov. 2009 and loved it!
Now going on the Ryndham in a week and very excited.
Living in Tampa we can go to all four of the cruise locations
(Port Canaveral, Tampa, Lauderdale and Miami).

That being said sailing out of Tampa is just so easy.
The only sad thing (besides the ugliness of the Port of
Tampa) is they don't seem to give us the "cream of the
crop" in ships.

But you really cannot beat a 20 minute ride to the port.

We're going on another Princess cruise in November and
love those cruises (3,000 passengers). But there is
something lovely and cozy about these smaller HAL ships!

[pam vessels]

Just thought I might add that we just got off a 30 day trip on Rotterdam and there was no master chef dinner or late night chocolate/dessert buffet. Also the hand towels in bathrooms were thread bare and stained. The ship looked good except for the beat up elevators due to the damage done by all of the scooters.