Unbeliveable Aboard Westerdam

[charliewesley]

This is not by any means my review of the Westerdam cruise, b2b 3/6 thru 3/20
that will come soon but I thought I would get some blood flowing in everyones veins!:D

How about someone TALKING ON A WALKIE TALKIE IN THE PINNACLE GRILL!!:eek:

How about someone WITH AN INFANT IN A FLOATIE IN THE AFT POOL!:eek:
yes mommie took him out and changed his crappy swim suit right in front of me!
yes i reported it to the front desk on two different occasions.
yes they were back!

Thank you Front Office for calling me to tell me that it will be handled!

[Ziggy7]

Oh wow! thats all I can say right now! :confused:
Other than I'm patiently awaiting your review :D

[grannynurse]

But. There was a 70+ YO man on last summer's transatlantic who removed his bathing suit after getting out of the whirlpool on the Lido deck, rinsed it in the pool, and trotted off to the aft shower with nothing left to the imagination. "Honey, Iron that thing!"
GN

[Himself]

Perhaps people have lost their sense of what is appropriate and what is not.

[Time2sail]

Not before breakfast:) That would call for "man overboard."

[Cuttle]

But. There was a 70+ YO man on last summer's transatlantic... GN

Pardon my ignorance, but what is a YO man?

Two gross stories of people who just think they can do what they like, when they like and who cares about anyone else? Too bad there are people like that in the world and not just on cruise ships. No thought for anyone else. Thankfully they are in a minority.

[grannynurse]

It's a "charting" designation for "year old".
I'll have to watch my abbreviations.

Also, don't puke, but there was an elderly woman on the Zanndam in the whirlpool with many large open sores on her upper body.... you're right, there are people who totally lack common sense, courtesy and consideration....UGH!
GN

[dot73]

On my last cruise, there were two couples (mid 60's) using the walkie talkies to keep tabs on each other. One couple would be by the pool carrying on long conversations with the other couple who were somewhere else on the ship. the quality of the walkie talkies wasn't very good, so they kept shouting at each other. I can understand keeping tabs on your kids, but this was ridiculous. Can you imagine what it's going to be like when, in the near future apparently, people will be able to use their cellphones while at sea? Working in an office and listening to phones ring all day is enough for me. I go on a cruise to get away from all that!!!

[jhannah]

...there was an elderly woman on the Zanndam in the whirlpool with many large open sores on her upper body... Just one more good reason to stay out of the hot tubs! Makes you wonder sometimes if people even have brains. :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

Thanks for sharing your 'on board' report with us.

Anything great, good, so -so happening on the ship?

Hope you have a wonderful time.

[RevNeal]

Makes you wonder sometimes if people even have brains.

Brains?
Brains?
It's MY vacation ... I don't have to take my brains with me if I don't want to!!!!! :rolleyes: :D

[AbbieRose]

Is the aft pool an adults-only pool? If not, why would an infant in a floatie be a problem? I can see changing the diaper out in public as a problem. But having a baby in a pool isn't shocking to me.

On a cruise about a year ago, a friend and I saw a woman clipping her father's toenails, and putting the clippings in a dessert bowl! We were hesitant to eat anything in those little bowls after that :)

Melissa

[nsshel]

Good grief all, I am gonna' throw up! So much for thinking that cruising (even on Holland America) is for the suave and sofisticated.

[xpcdoojk]

Is the aft pool an adults-only pool? If not, why would an infant in a floatie be a problem? I can see changing the diaper out in public as a problem. But having a baby in a pool isn't shocking to me.

On a cruise about a year ago, a friend and I saw a woman clipping her father's toenails, and putting the clippings in a dessert bowl! We were hesitant to eat anything in those little bowls after that :)

Melissa

Well when the infant goes, poopy or peepee, the rest of the pool patrons get to share. O and BTW it is generally against the rules for infants to be in any of the pools, hmmm wonder why, O yeah, poopy diapers.....:rolleyes: PS I really hope you are joking.:eek:

jc

[bplazo]

Yesterday I saw the cutest bumper sticker on a car "The more I deal with people the more I like my dog". How appropriate is this when you deal with people with no consideration for others.

I always stay out of the hot tubs and the pools when I cruise because of the above issues.

[bluefish]

Sorry about the strange occurences you highlighted. It was nice meeting you on the first leg of your b2b and I couldn't help thinking about you the first week we were back , wishing we were still on the ship like you!

We went to the aft pool in the morning when we were in Nassau (didn't get off the ship) with my 10 yr old son. There was no notice about it being an adult only pool. It did say kids under 14 must be supervised. There was almost no one there anyway-- everybody went to Nassau. My son had fun diving in the pool retrieving lime wedges and plastic champagne glasses from the bottom. I figured if they'd been in the chlorine overnight, they'd been sanitized. Thank goodness he didn't find anything else!

Welcome back home!

[HeatherInFlorida]

.............. "Honey, Iron that thing!"
GN

:D ROTFLOL!!!

I generally make it a rule never to go in any public pools or hot tubs for all the reasons stated above. And I am the least germophobic person I know.

That said, the points by the OP can be true in almost any place we go in society.

Although cruising is, in a way, "getting away from it all", we're never really and truly "away from it all":o

[DFD1]

We were cruising with another carrier in February. One of the pools had to be drained and cleaned twice in one week because of fecal contamination. Each time. the pool was out of service for 24 hours.

We love to cruise, but no more hot tubs or shipboard pools for us.

[sail7seas]

We went to the aft pool in the morning when we were in Nassau (didn't get off the ship) with my 10 yr old son. There was no notice about it being an adult only pool. It did say kids under 14 must be supervised. There was almost no one there anyway-- everybody went to Nassau. My son had fun diving in the pool retrieving lime wedges and plastic champagne glasses from the bottom. I figured if they'd been in the chlorine overnight, they'd been sanitized. Thank goodness he didn't find anything else!

Welcome back home!


:) Hmmmm....Diving???

[Cuttle]

Oh great!:eek: One of my priorities on cruises is a swim in the pool EVERY day. After reading all this I may have to reconsider the daily swim if, or when, we cruise again. The cruises we take are usually the longer ones, and children are few and far between, so maybe there was no problem. As I have posted on other threads, I am new to this Board and I wish I had known about it years ago as I have become aware of so many issues that hadn't even entered my head before. Maybe it's best not to know? I don't use the hot tubs, I kind of knew about the problems those create, but I hadn't considered the pools. So much for my exercise program.

[mechcc]

Just a question about the man that took his suit off - is it possible that he was from another country where this was perfectly acceptable? Having lived in Germany, nudity was not a problem, people went to the river park in street clothes and changed in the park right in front of you. No one but the Americans thought it was strange. Granted it is a shock but maybe he didn't realize he was being a jerk by our standards.

Now some of the other items - well all I can say is GROSS!!!! Think I will bypass the pools and whirlpools.

[DrivesLikeMario]

Don't worry too much about swimming in the pools. IF the chemicals are maintained correctly, there should be plenty of chlorine to kill off any harmful bacteria. Sure, we all hope there isn't any in there in the first place, but just in case, that's what heavy doses of chlorine are there for.

You can usually tell whether the chemicals are balanced just by looking at the pool. If you can't see the bottom of the pool or the water appears cloudy or hazy, then don't get in. If it appears crystal-bright, it usually means the chemicals are balanced well and you're safe to swim.

BTW - "The more I deal with people the more I like my dog". LOLOLOLOL!!!!

[Time2sail]

Go to www.cdc.gov (http://www.cdc.gov) and read about crypto--chlorine will not kill it (oocysts). It only takes one or two oocysts to make a baby, elderly person or one with immune problems deathly ill--a contamination of a pool will have millions of them:mad: Oh, don't forget about E-coli or N-virus, too.

Be sure to read the part about never putting your face in the water or accidentally drinking it.

I won't swim in a public pool or get in a public hot tub. If you do decide to get in, at least know what is swimming with you.

[xpcdoojk]

How many folks do you think die each year from Swimming in the pool on a HAL ship... I am thinking of a number between 0 and 0. Let's leave the the fear mongering at home, ok kids?:D

Anyone else read the new Micheal Chrichton book "State of Fear". A great read.

jc

[Time2sail]

Didn't tell anybody not to swim--just said I wasn't.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Didn't tell anybody not to swim--just said I wasn't.

:) Yup! Me, too. No scare tactics here. As if anybody would listen to me anyway:o ! LOL

[xpcdoojk]

:) Yup! Me, too. No scare tactics here. As if anybody would listen to me anyway:o ! LOL

I listen very carefully to you Heather! Your thoughts are important to me! :)

As far as fear mongering let's leave that to the professionals, the government and the press. :D

jc

[star453]

Maybe I'll just quit cruising! NOT:D

[kryos]

Well when the infant goes, poopy or peepee, the rest of the pool patrons get to share. O and BTW it is generally against the rules for infants to be in any of the pools, hmmm wonder why, O yeah, poopy diapers.....:rolleyes: PS I really hope you are joking.:eek:

That is exactly why I stay out of the pools. Too much chance of getting sick, especially if there are a lot of children using the pool ... not just infants. Do you honestly think little Johnny is gonna leave his friends and chance missing the fun if he has to go pee-pee. Why, he'll just let loose right where he is! After all, who is gonna know?

Nope, I'll wait until I get in port to swim. Somehow I think it's safer that way. At least you have a whole ocean there.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Oceanwench]

As far as fear mongering let's leave that to the professionals, the government and the press. :D

jc

As a member of the press, I object.

[meff]

I once heard a good quote that I think may fit in here. From Roy Blunt, Jr. on National Public Radio, "You can extend the length of your life, or you can live." Not to offend or criticize anyone for the choices you make in your own life, but for me it often puts issues such as this one in perspective. I think I'll go in the pools anyway.

[Cuttle]

We all can make our own choice. Being aware of the dangers of swimming in public pools is interesting. I swim three times a week in a public pool (I don't have the luxury of having a private one) and I have to trust the folks looking after the pool to keep it correctly maintained. I do swim during adult only times, so no children. Now that I am more aware I will be paying more attention to the pool, but I will still swim.

I am sure many have seen the items that circulate on the Web about how those born before the 50's or 60's survived doing all the things the younger generation are now warned against, you know the things: no fried foods, no sun bathing without sun screen, no this, no that. Obviously these warnings are warranted but... we survived and I am sure I will survive swimming in public pools.

[DFD1]

Same here.

[sail7seas]

Ditto.

I've been swimming in cruise ship pools for as long as we've been cruising. Haven't ever gotten sick yet. The irony is the one cruise I did not swim in the pool (our January cruise on Veendam) is the one time I DID get sick. :(

[dakrewser]

Nope, I'll wait until I get in port to swim. Somehow I think it's safer that way. At least you have a whole ocean there.


You do know what fish do in the ocean, don't you? :rolleyes:

[blackbird71]

There is an old saying about what fish do in the sea. The pools are tested, but outside the US the beaches are not. Myself I will take a pool anytime.

As my pool guy at my apartment would say every summer, "Summers here and so is the acid rain" :D

[bepsf]

So that's why they have showers right there next to the pool....:rolleyes:

[Renorita]

This is not by any means my review of the Westerdam cruise, b2b 3/6 thru 3/20
that will come soon but I thought I would get some blood flowing in everyones veins!:D

How about someone TALKING ON A WALKIE TALKIE IN THE PINNACLE GRILL!!:eek:

How about someone WITH AN INFANT IN A FLOATIE IN THE AFT POOL!:eek:
yes mommie took him out and changed his crappy swim suit right in front of me!
yes i reported it to the front desk on two different occasions.
yes they were back!

Thank you Front Office for calling me to tell me that it will be handled!

Okay I was eating when I starting reading this thread! :eek: Sure looking forward to your positive comments! :)

[Sillyjilly]

You do know what fish do in the ocean, don't you? :rolleyes:

Good point! :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

You do know what fish do in the ocean, don't you? :rolleyes:

That ocean is a whole lot bigger and the fish a whole lot smaller than a pool and a person. The fact is we're all probably perfectly safe in most well cared for public pools including cruiseship pools. But we all draw lines in different places. Some people won't shake hands, some don't get in hot tubs. It's whatever works for you and makes you comfortable. It's not like there's a right or wrong here.

Sail, I'm thinking the lesson learned is you should always swim in the pool!!!:D Probably the chemicals used in the pool have kept you healthy on all your other cruises. There might be something to this!!!

[bonnyweed]

I not a germophobe either and I do realize that fish poop in the sea. However, the thought of jumping into a small pool or smaller hottub on a cruiseship (or anywhere) is revolting to me. Just think of the scum you leave on your own bathtub when you are relatively clean.
My vision of the pool is a stew of sweat, urine, snot, feces & other bodily fluids .....and that's just from the healthy folks. Look out for floaters! Add to that the broth of sun tanning products, oozing from open sores, deodorant, ben gay, foot powder and other toiletries and I'm quite happy to take it all in from my chaise lounge.
They could fill that pool with 100% chlorine and it isn't going to be any more appealing to me. I'll take shark sh** over human sh** any day.

[pins5]

I not a germophobe either and I do realize that fish poop in the sea. However, the thought of jumping into a small pool or smaller hottub on a cruiseship (or anywhere) is revolting to me. Just think of the scum you leave on your own bathtub when you are relatively clean.
My vision of the pool is a stew of sweat, urine, snot, feces & other bodily fluids .....and that's just from the healthy folks. Look out for floaters! Add to that the broth of sun tanning products, oozing from open sores, deodorant, ben gay, foot powder and other toiletries and I'm quite happy to take it all in from my chaise lounge.
They could fill that pool with 100% chlorine and it isn't going to be any more appealing to me. I'll take shark sh** over human sh** any day.

:( :confused: :cool: :eek:

[the2ofus]

If you really are observant at the pools, you will note that very few people actually get into the pools, especially the aft pool, so there are not lots of people constantly shedding germs in there, in whatever form. The fact that the pool is chlorinated and that, especially in the Caribbean, it gets lots of sunshine and is rather cool would indicate that it is not a great medium for the growth or survival of lots of germs.

I would guess that it is at least as safe as the pool at our local YMCA where I swim at least 3 times a week most of the year.

I will continue to use the aft pool on HAL ships. The Lido pool is usually too warm for my liking, and much more likely to be used by kids.

[bepsf]

I not a germophobe either and I do realize that fish poop in the sea. However, the thought of jumping into a small pool or smaller hottub on a cruiseship (or anywhere) is revolting to me. Just think of the scum you leave on your own bathtub when you are relatively clean.
My vision of the pool is a stew of sweat, urine, snot, feces & other bodily fluids .....and that's just from the healthy folks. Look out for floaters! Add to that the broth of sun tanning products, oozing from open sores, deodorant, ben gay, foot powder and other toiletries and I'm quite happy to take it all in from my chaise lounge.
They could fill that pool with 100% chlorine and it isn't going to be any more appealing to me. I'll take shark sh** over human sh** any day.


Ummm - that really is why they have showers next to the pools...

[CHRIS3169]

Okay, I have to add if everyone is afraid of the swimming pools, what about shopping carts, doors that you open to go into any store, the atm machine, the credit cards macines at check outs, and the worst---- the bathroom door (anywhere)!!!!

Hopefully the infant at least had a swim diaper on. So what's in the ocean????
Very amusing thread!
Christy

[xpcdoojk]

Don't forget the germs on your money. Think how many people touch it. They go to the bathroom at the ballpark and then they go buy a hotdog and a beer then the lady who takes his money hands him a hot dog. The process is neverending.

Anyone else see George Carlin's germ schtick? :D

jc

[Time2sail]

Chlorine will not destroy a protozoan. The pool has to have very special, specific treatment to be rid of it. This goes for public or private pools.

The whole point of my first post was that a comment was made that proper chlorine levels will keep the water clean. Not true.

As for the comments about germs, surely you are not putting your mouth on the grocery cart, bathroom door or money. Don't you wash your hands before you eat? But still, you are talking about germs and not a protozoan. Do a little reading and just be smarter about going into a public pool or hot tub.

It is wonderful to hear testimonies of how many swim and will continue swimming. No one has told you in any of these posts not to do this. It reminds me of teenage peer pressure when posters try to convince everyone that you have to do what I do.

I water ski in our lakes that have gators but you don't have to.:)

[bonnyweed]

If people use the poolside shower (and I see many folks using it after their swim rather than before) that might rinse off some of the sweat and toiletries. However, a pre-pool shower does nothing for those nasty little things folks do once they get in the pool. I love to swim in the ocean and lakes.
A small cruiseship pool or hottub presents a concentration of objectionable stuff in parts per hundred rather than parts per million. Other than fecal contamination in pools, I'm not worried about disease and urine is usually sterile. However, aesthetically, it is unappealing for me to swim in what is basically a group bath for vacationers who feel entitled to do whatever they (and their children) want because they're "on vacation." It's not a germ phobia...maybe a toe jam phobia. If I meet someone on the cruise who I want to have a bath with, I'll take him back to my cabin.

[sail7seas]

Reason: too sick from e-coli to type. Bonneyweed :) :D


My favorite is that 'if the pool looks clean and sparkling, it's clean!!!???" Huh.....I don't think I'll depend upon that measure . I'd like to see that the water is tested regularly and chemicals added as indicated by those tests.


Brian.......Thanks for the common sense suggestion that there is a shower right beside the pool for good reason.

[xpcdoojk]

Chlorine will not destroy a protozoan. The pool has to have very special, specific treatment to be rid of it. This goes for public or private pools.

The whole point of my first post was that a comment was made that proper chlorine levels will keep the water clean. Not true.

As for the comments about germs, surely you are not putting your mouth on the grocery cart, bathroom door or money. Don't you wash your hands before you eat? But still, you are talking about germs and not a protozoan. Do a little reading and just be smarter about going into a public pool or hot tub.

It is wonderful to hear testimonies of how many swim and will continue swimming. No one has told you in any of these posts not to do this. It reminds me of teenage peer pressure when posters try to convince everyone that you have to do what I do.

I water ski in our lakes that have gators but you don't have to.

Basically, this is a fun thread, but some people don't enjoy fun... they have to demonstrate their superiority, and this makes me sigh.....:rolleyes:

When you say things like .... Do a little reading and just be smarter about going into a public pool or hot tub. This implies that the rest of us are not as smart as the poster and that pretty much destroys my interest in having fun... :mad:

Then this statement ... It reminds me of teenage peer pressure when posters try to convince everyone that you have to do what I do. Makes me realize that unless we have this posters point of view and share their state of fear that we are just stupid children trying to get the smart person to do the wrong thing. We are talking about getting into a swimming pool, we are not talking about taking LSD... gimme a freaking break already. :rolleyes:

Seriously, the world is full of dangers, but until the poster shows me a statistical analysis showing deaths from swimming in pools on cruise ships, I will blissfully ignore this big danger sign.... :p

Again, I would like for everyone to consider reading Chrichton's new book "State of Fear". It should be required reading.

jc

[jhannah]

Don't you wash your hands before you eat? Um ... I truly believe, from observation, that the vast majority do not. But even those who do will still rub their eye or pick something out from between their teeth before they wash their hands.

[Seadoc]

Truly quaint!

The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!

The terminally-self-important-and-technologically-superior HAL cruisers babble to each other on their snazzy new walkie-talkies (soon to be the ubiquitous cellphones preferred by the majority of American boors), possibly (likely?) disturbing the tranquility (at $150-$250 per diem yet) bought and paid for by those within earshot. HAL's policy on walkie-talkies, cellphones and boorishness? Non-existent or a "work in progress" or "we're taking these issues under consideration" or, perhaps most likely, "our august clientele certainly doesn't include moronic mommies or boors, so what's your problem, sir?

These (and similar) issues discussed here would seem to verify beyond question the two fundamental "truths" offered in Econ. 101:

1. Corporate BS (and inaction) confirm the difference between perception (read HAL "marketing") and reality (the above).
2. You get what you pay for. If you prefer, in your selection of available cruiselines, dumpless pools (and corporate non-response) and an absence of boors (and corporate non-response), you may have to cruise less often but pay the price for Seaborne, Radisson, Silversea, Oceania, Crystal, Sea Dream, etc. While none of them is "perfect", the probability of the above events occurring on their ships is markedly smaller (this statement based not on wishful thinking or delusion but personal experience).

[xpcdoojk]

Truly quaint!

The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!

The terminally-self-important-and-technologically-superior HAL cruisers babble to each other on their snazzy new walkie-talkies (soon to be the ubiquitous cellphones preferred by the majority of American boors), possibly (likely?) disturbing the tranquility (at $150-$250 per diem yet) bought and paid for by those within earshot. HAL's policy on walkie-talkies, cellphones and boorishness? Non-existent or a "work in progress" or "we're taking these issues under consideration" or, perhaps most likely, "our august clientele certainly doesn't include moronic mommies or boors, so what's your problem, sir?

These (and similar) issues discussed here would seem to verify beyond question the two fundamental "truths" offered in Econ. 101:

1. Corporate BS (and inaction) confirm the difference between perception (read HAL "marketing") and reality (the above).
2. You get what you pay for. If you prefer, in your selection of available cruiselines, dumpless pools (and corporate non-response) and an absence of boors (and corporate non-response), you may have to cruise less often but pay the price for Seaborne, Radisson, Silversea, Oceania, Crystal, Sea Dream, etc. While none of them is "perfect", the probability of the above events occurring on their ships is markedly smaller (this statement based not on wishful thinking or delusion but personal experience).


Huh?:confused: ;)

Could someone translate this and I am an economist!:confused:

jc

[JDee]

If I meet someone on the cruise who I want to have a bath with, I'll take him back to my cabin.

Now that is real togetherness..http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon10.gif

[JDee]

Huh?:confused: ;)

Could someone translate this and I am an economist!:confused:


That would be a kissin-kousin to "Greenspeak." http://boards.cruisecritic.com/images/icons/icon12.gif

[Time2sail]

"Again, I would like for everyone to consider reading Chrichton's new book "State of Fear". It should be required reading. "

Since you have mentioned this twice, I will read it. But, it had better be a fun book because I don't like to read books that aren't fun.:)

Plus, I am ignorant and proud of it so it had better not have any learning in it.

[xpcdoojk]

"Again, I would like for everyone to consider reading Chrichton's new book "State of Fear". It should be required reading. "

Since you have mentioned this twice, I will read it. But, it had better be a fun book because I don't like to read books that aren't fun.:)

Plus, I am ignorant and proud of it so it had better not have any learning in it.

He is a very bright guy, MC, and there is tons of research including footnotes, but yes it is a fun book. I bought it a month ago, and was not really ready to read another jurassic park. I was more than pleasantly surprised. I finished it in 2 nights. Excellent book, a page turner.

jc

[Landlubber54]

Like some of the people on this thread, my DW (who I love very much) tends to look at every situation as though the worst possible outcome is the most likely. Whatever happened to common sense? Certainly there are risks in day-to-day living, but swimming in a public pool that is properly maintained (not perfectly, properly) is not the same as being subjected to an anthrax attack. I won't be drinking the pool water (at least, not intentionally:eek: ) and I will shower afterwards (both at the pool and back at my cabin).

Just as this web site proves, the internet sometimes provides us with access to simply too much information -- both good and bad...:cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

Don't forget the germs on your money. Think how many people touch it. They go to the bathroom at the ballpark and then they go buy a hotdog and a beer then the lady who takes his money hands him a hot dog. The process is neverending.

jc

You know what I say????? I say ... give up money. It will solve all sorts of problems and on top of that ... no germs. Get out of the pools and give up the money. Stay in your house and spray Lysol on everyone who walks in the door. Everything will be fine.

:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

............. If I meet someone on the cruise who I want to have a bath with, I'll take him back to my cabin.

Bonnyweed, this is priceless ... absolutely pricelesshttp://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/08. I just had to tell you that. If anyone is reading this and often wonders about my weird sense of humor? This is it. Bonnyweed is hysterically funny. I think they call it "witty". Whatever it is, I love it. Bonnyweed, thank you.

[wander]

While I have no statistics available at this time, from my recollection on cruise ships the real serious pool dangers (deaths and serious injuries) occur when there is NO WATER in the pool.

[kryos]

The kid dumps in the pool - the moronic mommy dutifully does a diaper change and the witness (OP) reports this to HAL (the ever-vigilant source of dress codes, booze protocols, "fine cruising" and similar blather) and - predictably- the crack HAL hierarchy does...........(drum roll)..........NOTHING!

HAL is a mass market line ... one of the better ones ... but still mass market. They have long been associated with the older passenger demographic and it would appear they are trying to broaden their market and appeal to families. Families often including infants and children. Infants and children love the water and yes, mom is not about to deprive her darling from a dip in the pool with his floatie and yes, even maybe his crappy diaper.

Sure, this was reported by the OP, and not surprisingly it was probably ignored (as would seem the case since she said the woman and her baby were back).

Walkie-talkies in the Pinnacle doesn't surprise me. Be glad cell phones aren't yet usable while at sea, or you'd have maybe a dozen conversations going on at any given time ... some utilizing the walkie-talkie features contained in many of those cell phones.

I've only started cruising about a year ago ... so I can't really speak with direct experience on the past of cruising. But, it would seem to me that since the actual cost of cruising has come down so much over the past decade (adjusted for inflationary rates), more and more people are now able to cruise than were in the past. In the "bygone era" only the reasonably affluent person could afford a cruise. The lower middle-class with a slew of kids could never have afforded it. So, those folks went to campgrounds and shore rentals and whatnot, while the more moneyed folks went on the boat. Those moneyed folks had certain expectations of what a cruise should be and how one should behave while on a boat. Thus, you didn't see this sort of thing. In fact, it would never have been tolerated because all the passengers would have been up in arms about things like babies in the pool and people talking on walkie-talkies in the Pinnacle.

But, today, we've got lots of family cruisers. They don't know that these things are generally frowned upon, and what's more ... they question what is wrong with a baby in the pool, kids running around the dining room, or even (horrors!) someone wearing their jeans to the dining room on formal night. Since there are more and more of these "new cruisers" with different ideas, it's understandable that lines like HAL don't know what to make of these so-called "rule violations." If they say something to the passengers (what could be rapidly becoming the majority of passengers) they risk alienating the market segment that they most are trying to appeal to. I really can't say I blame them for their apparent inaction when faced with the OP's complaints.

I hate to say it, but the face of cruising is changing, and as it does, cruiseline policies are bound to change. I would be willing to bet that swim diapers will become accepted and infants will be welcomed in the pools in the not too distant future. Hell, they're enjoying them right now, whether or not their fellow passengers like it.

I see formal night becoming strictly an option to be partaken by those with an affinity for that sort of thing. Those nice jeans will be fine for the dining room ... on any night. In fact, I'd be willing to bet traditional dining will eventually be done away with, or offered only as an option for those passengers who enjoy that sort of thing.

Am I saying that I welcome these changes? No. I just see them as the changing face of cruising ... just like change in all areas of our lives is inevitable.

The only thing I can suggest for those who do not like what cruising is evolving into is to seek out the premium cruiselines. Those lines, because of their higher prices, appeal to the older, more mature passenger. That passenger is more likely to love the traditions associated with cruising ... dressing up for dinner, adults only pools, and a refined dining experience. Sad to say, but the premium lines will be the last place these traditions will survive because the mass market lines more and more will have to appeal to the young, family cruiser, and that cruiser doesn't give a crap what you or I may think is uncouth. In other words, "it's my vacation and I'll damned well enjoy it ... and so will my six-month-old."

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Adk~Cruiser]

The lower middle-class with a slew of kids could never have afforded it. So, those folks went to campgrounds and shore rentals and whatnot, while the more moneyed folks went on the boat. Those moneyed folks had certain expectations of what a cruise should be and how one should behave while on a boat.

My mother always said "manners are taught, not bought". It's my opinion that people from many income levels simply do not understand common courtesy and respect as they were not shown it or taught it within their own family. To me it is more a symptom of society as a whole rather than the symptom of any one class or another.

[jhannah]

Adk~Cruiser, I would agree. I've seen some pretty boorish well-heeled people. It seems they are of the opinion that their money entitles them to whatever they want to do and however they want to do it. Not all, of course, but many.

[cactuslady]

Dear me.

This entire thread appears to call for a nice medicinal gin and tonic. Not only will it kill a few germs, it will make that naked old guy look much better. And there's a little quinine thrown in in case of malaria, and some vitamin C in the lime to help ward off the cold I might get from touching the glass it came in.

Maybe I'll have a couple. They'll steady my hands for when I borrow RevNeal's shotgun for a little skeet shooting off the stern.

;)

[xpcdoojk]

Wow this topic has sure wandered around a strange neighborhood! ;)

Heather, they say money is the root of all evil today... well at least that is what Pink Floyd, said. ;)

Common decency would be nice if it were more common. ;)

I sure hope my wife is not around when someone takes me to their bath.;)

jc

[bonnyweed]

Why Heather, thanks for your words of thanks.
The cruise pool aversion is a personal rather than scientifically-based thing for me. I work in public health and have spent years working with foodborne illness, sexually transmitted diseases, tuberculosis, head lice, scabies and other "cooties." I have done that work at homeless shelters, soup kitchens, impoverished homes and, currently, on an Indian reservation. It is work that I love and you can't be squeamish to do it.
That said, ain't no way I'm getting in that cruise ship spa!
Being immersed in pee won't make me sick but it sure isn't high on my list of things to do.....especially on vacation.
So for the folks who keep insisting that it is silly to be concerned about bodily fluids in pools.....I say again....it ain't about germs it's about the repulsion factor. If you're happy in your tiny spa for the masses....come on in, the water's just slime.

[xpcdoojk]

Dear me.

This entire thread appears to call for a nice medicinal gin and tonic. Not only will it kill a few germs, it will make that naked old guy look much better. And there's a little quinine thrown in in case of malaria, and some vitamin C in the lime to help ward off the cold I might get from touching the glass it came in.

Maybe I'll have a couple. They'll steady my hands for when I borrow RevNeal's shotgun for a little skeet shooting off the stern.

;)

Make mine a Bombay Saphire!:D

jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

Does anyone here have the slightest idea how so many threads always come back around to germs, kids, smuggled booze or old people?

I'm really curious, because it seems that it doesn't really matter what the OP is, it so often comes back to these subjects.

As to money and classes, my Mom always says cruising went downhill when the "bus people" started cruising:D . I can't help it ... that cracks me up because she is just so disgustingly outspoken sometimes (I come by it honestly).

So maybe the money is just falling into the wrong hands. Because the fact is that tons of people with money are just as boorish as those without. So what we all have to figure out is how to get the money into the "right" hands ... i.e., ours;)

Please don't start flaming me for this post ... honest, I'm just having fun.

[jhannah]

Yep, things go downhill when you let "some" people in the mainstream. Just look at what happened once women were allowed to vote!
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist.) :D

[jollycruiser]

Interesting that the original author of this thread came in and left a pile of sh** and never returned.

[dakrewser]

Does anyone here have the slightest idea how so many threads always come back around to germs, kids, smuggled booze or old people?

You left out dress code, tipping and food service - the "seven deadly topics". Thank the diety that we seem to have finally left meatloaf behind!:rolleyes:

I firmly believe that the only people who should be allowed to do anything are the "common" people - those with common decency, common courtesy and, most importantly, common sense! :cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yep, things go downhill when you let "some" people in the mainstream. Just look at what happened once women were allowed to vote!
(Sorry, I just couldn't resist.) :D

Jiiiiiiiiiiiiiim................! Saying you're sorry doesn't make it nice:o .

On the other hand .... you could well be right:D . I've never been a feminist in my life and I was around when there was such a thing. What ever happened to feminists anyway? Probably cruising with the "bus people".

Dave ... you are quite right.

[Cuttle]

I firmly believe that the only people who should be allowed to do anything are the "common" people - those with common decency, common courtesy and, most importantly, common sense! :cool:

Ditto. I totally agree.

[Cuttle]

....

[Himself]

I am not a swimmer and do not go in pools too often. Some of these posts make me glad I don't go in them too often.

Himself

[kryos]

My mother always said "manners are taught, not bought". It's my opinion that people from many income levels simply do not understand common courtesy and respect as they were not shown it or taught it within their own family. To me it is more a symptom of society as a whole rather than the symptom of any one class or another.
But who's to say this is a breach of manners? A boat filled with families may have several mom's with their infants in the pool. They paid a fare for the infant, many of them will argue, so why shouldn't the baby be allowed in the pool?

I don't see this as a breach of manners at all. I see it more as not knowing what the past traditions were, since they were never exposed to them. Also, if lots of people are not "dressing to the nines" on formal night, then who is to say that those who wear a nice casual type outfit are not exercising good manners. "Hey, I see plenty of people dressed like me" ... is what they can rightfully argue. Hell, if there are a few old foagies who click their tongues because one is not decked out in a ball gown, do you think that casual dresser is gonna lose any sleep over it?

People will behave as the situation demands. If someone sees others doing something (of course, I mean something that is clearly not outrageous) ... such as popping a swim diaper on the baby and then setting him in his floatie in the aft pool, they are going to naturally assume that this is fine. If the ship's rules say no children in the first three rows of the show lounge and you walk in there with your kids and clearly see a slew of kids in those front rows, are you gonna tell your kids no? Clearly the cruiseline has a rule here that they are not really enforcing. Perhaps they are not enforcing it because it's an antiquated rule?

Like I said ... it's all about change. The actual price of cruising is much cheaper today than it was ten years ago. Because of that, a lot more people are choosing to cruise over taking a land-based vacation. Those people have different expectations for their vacation, and those expectations may not jive with what you expect. In short, if enough people have those different expectations, then the cruiseline will be forced to bend to their will. In short, if you don't like it ... it's you who will have to go elsewhere.

Sucks, I know. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

That said, ain't no way I'm getting in that cruise ship spa!

LOL ... I'm with you! Seriously, I've found two situations with being out on the pool deck on a sea day. Either it's unGodly hot or it's chilly. I've yet to find a happy medium out there.

So, since there are so many fun things going on inside, I just spend my time there. I only venture out on deck sometimes to have a drink at the bar and watch the ocean go by.

Besides, I'd be afraid to put on a bathing suit out there. I'd be afraid the officers on the bridge might take one look and announce a "whale sighting" over the loudspeakers. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

I only venture out on deck sometimes to have a drink at the bar and watch the ocean go by.

And at night, Rita ... it's so beautiful and often so quiet out there on deck at night.

Besides, I'd be afraid to put on a bathing suit out there. I'd be afraid the officers on the bridge might take one look and announce a "whale sighting" over the loudspeakers. :(


I always have to be careful with this as well. But not for the same reason. I realize that the officers might well be overcome by my sheer beauty and exquisite shape and take us off course. That simply would not do.

ROTFLOL:D with TIME!!!

[bplazo]

Just because someone pays a fare for an infant does not mean that the baby is going to be able to enjoy all the activities on the ship. Will they be able to gamble at the casino, drink alcohol at the bar? Run on the treadmill? When you bring an infant or toddler on a cruise you must realize that their activities will be limited.

[Time2sail]

"So what we all have to figure out is how to get the money into the "right" hands ... i.e., ours;) "

The LOVE of money is the root of all evil; money is not evil nor is having it. So, I would just LIKE to have money and I think I would be the "right" person,too. I sure know how to spend it already.:)

Where is Grannynurse? The guy removing and wringing out his bathing suit in the pool got us really going:D Forgot all about the original poster after that.

[sail7seas]

Those people have different expectations for their vacation, and those expectations may not jive with what you expect. In short, if enough people have those different expectations, then the cruiseline will be forced to bend to their will. In short, if you don't like it ... it's you who will have to go elsewhere.

Sucks, I know. :(




I disagree. When it comes to health and safety of other pax, cruise lines and fellow pax do not have to accept disgusting hygiene of some people. They will have to learn that their fellow pax will not tolerate and do not have to put up with exposure to their kids' poop. Why should we? Little Johnnie's mom may think he poops ice cream, but we know better!!!

[Landlubber54]

While baby poop distracted many of us (me included) the OP's point had more to do with common courtesy (remember the cell phone or walkie talkie in Pinnacle?) than hygiene. The problem is that by paying for a cruise, many feel they have earned the right to impose their will on others with impunity. It's a sad fact of society and it crosses all lines of class, race, religion, sexual orientation and shoe size. :rolleyes:

[kryos]

Just because someone pays a fare for an infant does not mean that the baby is going to be able to enjoy all the activities on the ship. Will they be able to gamble at the casino, drink alcohol at the bar? Run on the treadmill? When you bring an infant or toddler on a cruise you must realize that their activities will be limited.
Don't laugh, but ...

When I was on the Zuiderdam last summer, I was traveling with a couple of friends who were "gym freaks." I had to find this woman one morning to give her a message, so I wandered into the gym (a place I would ordinarily never set foot in). :)

On one of the treadmills there is this woman ... she's got one of those papoose things on her back and she's running ... with what looked like a very contented baby bouncing happily away.

Guess you meet all kinds on a cruise ship, huh?

Actually, I thought it was kinda cute.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

Little Johnnie's mom may think he poops ice cream, but we know better.
Yeah, but swim diapers would contain it, right?

Would there be a hygiene issue if baby had them on?

Of course, I agree ... mom shouldn't have changed his crappy swimsuit right there. She should have taken baby inside.

I'm just talking generally, though ... if a baby had a "swim diaper" on, would there be a hygiene risk to the other passengers?

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Time2sail]

The difference between a regular disposable diaper and a swim diaper? The swim diaper will not swell up in the water (absorb, expand or whatever word you choose).

A swim diaper doesn't absorb anything--kind of like a plastic bag. So, everything just goes into the pool water if they are not tight around the legs or stomach of the baby. It would be gross for me to remind everyone what is loose and what babies have after vaccinations, colds, allergies, change in sleep patterns or foods.

Don't want to get scientific so just read the package disclaimer on a package of swim diapers the next time you are in the store. When they first came on the market, they were advertised differently than they are now. That was misleading so that had to stop.

[xpcdoojk]

Yeah, but swim diapers would contain it, right?

Would there be a hygiene issue if baby had them on?

Of course, I agree ... mom shouldn't have changed his crappy swimsuit right there. She should have taken baby inside.

I'm just talking generally, though ... if a baby had a "swim diaper" on, would there be a hygiene risk to the other passengers?

Blue skies ...

--rita

Umm, that is why they have the rules about kids being potty trained before they are allowed in the pools, at least they do on RCI and Celebrity. Do we really want to find out if the swim diapers contain it? , now if the put the child in a dry suit... maybe... :D although I have never seen one for infants!

jc

[Adk~Cruiser]

[color=blue]the OP's point had more to do with common courtesy ... many feel they have earned the right to impose their will on others with impunity. It's a sad fact of society and it crosses all lines of class....

Thank you LandLubber... that is exactly what I was trying to say and you said it better. :)

[anngie]

Shouldn't people who work for the cruise line enforce the rules about not allowing babies in diapers or untoilet trained children in the adult pool? They would not hesitate to enforce other safety rules like no drinking glasses or bottles in the pool.
Other passengers should not have to be security guards.

[K&RCurt]

The problem with expecting the ship's crew enforcing ANY behavior rules, is that the folks who are around the pool are usually Service Staff not ship's officers. The service staff's primary concern is making people happy, bringing drinks and not have anyone complain about them. I saw plenty of middle aged folks in the Lido pool and hot tubs with drink glasses and beer mugs. Is a beverage steward going to go yell at someone to not drink in the area...I think not! More drinks = more tips!

I know I'm in the minority but I'm kind of wierd when it comes to where I swim. I MUCH prefer a pool with plenty of chlorine (which can handle killing the microbes in baby doo doo) vs. swimming in a lake, river or ocean. There is currently an ad running on TV for a bottled water that features a guy dressed as a bear. He is referencing a "clear mountain stream". He says "Do you know what those salmon DO in that stream?...they SPAWN!" I feel the same way. I just get the heebie jeebies thinking about swimming amongst fish pee / poo / whatever in a body of water w/o germ killing agents being controlled. YES I know how diluted anything in the ocean is...doesn't matter I still "know" it's there. I guess I just have the oposite issue of bonnieweed!

[CHRIS3169]

First, Is no one a mom out there???? My goodness, as a mom to THREE children I am just trying to survive at the moment. I really feel sorry for this mom, trying to have a little fun with her child by taking the child swimming. I really have to say everyone needs to lighten up some! As a mom, I am doing the best I can, though I can guarantee this is not always RIGHT!:)

The swim diapers may not be the best option for catching "everything" but as a mom I thought that was what I am supposed to put on my babies! Every pool I have been to says everywhere your infant MUST be in a swim diaper.
So, stay away from me because I take my children swimming!:) I try to make sure "everything" is timed right so no accidents happen in the pool, but they are kids with bodies all their own.

By the way, if there is supposed to be an older client base on HAL, what about their diapers?????


Relax everyone, your cruising!!!!;)
Christy

[Time2sail]

"I try to make sure "everything" is timed right so no accidents happen in the pool, but they are kids with bodies all their own."


Babies don't have accidents; they are doing what is natural and normal. An accident is something unintentional--No one blames a baby for doing what they are supposed to do. I don't know of anyone who dislikes a baby because they are untrained or even a toilet trained child who has an accident.

I happen to love and adore children:) Their parents annoy me occasionally.

[anngie]

I sailed on the Westerdam in December and thought the aft pool was adults only. I understand that the cruise line personnel in the area are service people but what if there were an emergency of some sort? I'll bet that some qualified person would appear pretty quickly. I knew someone who worked aboard a ship as a musician and even he had to go to CPR classes and they had mock inservice drills where someone fell over board.
I don't mean to be an old fogy but little babies in floaters don't need to be in the adult pool. They and their mothers need to be in the children's pool.

[xpcdoojk]

On RCI, a more family oriented line than HAL, infants or toddlers that are not potty trained are not allowed in any pools, so keep your nasty little poopalooza out of the pools! :D

I like children, and toddlers, but they do not belong in a public pool, get a room with a bath tub. I think they will be happier there, and I know I will be. :D

jc

I don't mean anything bad by calling them poopalooza, but it is a quote by the famous RCI forum curmudgeon Folgy. In other words it is a term of endearment! :D

[anngie]

At the risk of sounding like someone who dislikes kids, nothing could be further from the truth. I love kids and babies but I did my time in the baby pool with mine. I had three children of my own and have grandchildren but still don't think babies in diapers or untrained little ones belong in the adult pool on a cruise,a motel or in a community pool.

[dakrewser]

First, Is no one a mom out there???? My goodness, as a mom to THREE children I am just trying to survive at the moment. I really feel sorry for this mom, trying to have a little fun with her child by taking the child swimming. I really have to say everyone needs to lighten up some! As a mom, I am doing the best I can, though I can guarantee this is not always RIGHT!:)

Relax everyone, your cruising!!!!;)
Christy

I'll relax and enjoy if you and the other pax will simply follow the rules. Is that so much to ask?

[AmyinVail]

Christy,
I'm a mom! I've learned to pick my battles wisely on this message board. Trying to win the battle about children (any topic) on this board is a task not worth attempting. You're surrounded quicker than the bingo table on a HAL ship on senior night!! :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

Christy,
I'm a mom! I've learned to pick my battles wisely on this message board. Trying to win the battle about children (any topic) on this board is a task not worth attempting. You're surrounded quicker than the bingo table on a HAL ship on senior night!! :D

That's nice, Amy. You're not going to make a lot of friends with that kind of commentary.

Ever tried winning a battle about what you consider "old people" (which I think is pretty much anyone over 55, maybe 50) being obnoxious, rude and generally annoying?

I didn't think these boards were about "winning". I thought they were to talk about cruising which is something we all enjoy. From time to time we don't see eye to eye on a subject. But remarks like the one you make above is just insulting and has no place here.

[AmyinVail]

See what I mean? LOL It can be written that mom's think their kids poop is ice cream, that younger families who can now "afford" to cruise are somehow less thoughtful than the way it used to be......but I write that bingo is popular on a HAL ship and I'm somehow "insulting" and out of line? ROFLOL I've read it all, now.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oh, Amy ... did you even read my post? You completely missed the point.

I was trying to explain that it's just as hard for us "old" folks as it is for you. No one is safe here.

You did not say "Bingo is popular on a HAL ship". You said "You're surrounded quicker than the bingo table on a HAL ship on senior night!! "

I think most of us can see the difference between those 2 remarks.

And for the record, never did I even suggest you were "out of line". I said you were insulting.

And, somehow, I really don't think you're ROTFLOL. Neither am I.

[AmyinVail]

Actually, I was LOL. I've managed to keep my mouth shut for 97 posts to this thread and when someone asks for other moms, I pop in, tell her to just leave it be and throw in a joke for good measure (and not nearly as insulting as I've been - come on, Heather, I'm playing nicer, aren't I?) and I get reamed again. So, yes, I was laughing as I just can't win!!!!! Before this thread got so ugly, I was honestly going to get clarification on whether the aft pool IS or IS NOT a pool for children as some comment that it's posted, whereas others say it was not posted. Believe it or not, I aim to keep the rules in check at all times; for my kids and for myself.

[CHRIS3169]

Thanks Amy!! I have really just found this website/ specifically just too negative, so I am headed elsewhere. Anyway, truly it is for most people a vacation so relax, let go and just enjoy yourself, don't worry about everyone else.


Remember everyone it is Easter weekend, for those of you that are of a Christian faith, those who are not, I am not trying to offend! Forgivness!

I agree with Amy if it says it is an adult pool then I would adhere to that rule, however we all make mistakes, especially me:o So if this mom did then well let it go. If not there are sure worse things to do than take your baby swimming.

If your that fired up about a baby in a pool, design a "Poop" proof diaper, be constructive with your time. While your at it could you design a stroller that rolls well, and a car seat that is actually easy to clean.

Just a mom,
Chris

[bonnyweed]

Copy and paste this link into the address bar http://www.fishershops.com/swimdiaper.html

The link contains photos of the adult swim diapers. Fortunately they have a distinctive appearance so everyone can vacate the pool when the incontinent adult swimmer is spotted!

A description from the site.........

"Swim Diapers for Adults and Youths can be used in the swimming pool, hot tub or at the beach. Now available in two styles. Either style can be worn alone or under a suit but both styles function equally well. Suitable for both males and females. A great solution for the swimmer with bowel incontinence. The Swim Diaper contains solids while allowing liquids to seive through, but will not fill with air and balloon out or absorb large amounts of water and act as an anchor. " :eek:

[Time2sail]

"Just a mom,
Chris"

__________________



Bonnyweed, as you noted swim diapers are diapers and it doesn't matter what age might be wearing them in a pool or hot tub. Yuck!

[Smmessineo]

To Chris3169, I'm a mom. My kids are teenagers now, so they get lumped into their own "hated" group on these message boards. But I don't buy the poor mom just trying to have some fun excuse. Everybody has to make some sacrifices when they go out or travel with small children. That's part of the job as a parent. Our philosophy was the kids are old enough to go to a good restaurant when they're old enough to pay! Not quite true but it gets the point across. This goes for pools, movies, hotels, etc. If you have to miss out on something because your kid isn't allowed in, or common politeness dictates you leave ( such as screaming babies at the dinner table) that's just a fact of that stage of your life. Someday as the kids get older you can go back to enjoying life again! Believe me, I know...I did my time at Sesame Place and Disneyworld, and now we get to see Alaska, Europe, etc and use the good silver and china.
Happy cruising!
Margaret

[Landlubber54]

Wow! One of the problems with boards like these (and not just CC) is that we only get the words without the body language and tone of voice to accompany those words. Even smilies don't always adequately convey meaning. The OP spoke to the loss of common courtesy in society, and this thread has demonstrated that pretty well. Oh, well...

To quote Rodney King (police victim and 15-minute celeb), "Can't we all just get along?":)

[dakrewser]

Well put Margaret (Smmessineo). When our kids were very young (and with four of them, born between '67 and '76, that was a lo-o-o-ng time:rolleyes: ) we did things appropriate to their age. Mixed in were trips to see grandma and grandpa (who could be counted on to babysit while mom & dad had a rare day out alone).

Many a time DW or myself would be in a restaurant parking lot waiting for one or another of the kids to calm down so we could rejoin the family at dinner.

We chose to have kids early in life asnd forego some things for their sake while we raised them. We're now enjoying travelling together, visiting our kids and grandkids and doing "adult" stuff (although we've been to Disney World four times, we've never gone with our kids!).

Someday the situation may be reversed and our kids will have to forego some things to care for us.

That's life, it really isn't possible to have it all, all the time.

[Without Tessa]

I believe 'rita was the one that said that if kids were banned from the first few rows of the theatre and there were kids sitting there, would you say no to your kids? (or something like that). I respectfully have to say "yes, I would". Perhaps I am just "square" and like to follow rules (for those of you who have heard of True Colors Personality test, I am a green-gold and I can't help myself!! lol!). But if there is a rule that says no kids in the first three rows of the theatre, I have to assume there is a good reason and regardless of who breaks these rules, I would like to teach my children that the rule should be respected.

I am not a mother, but I hope to start a family soon and enjoy observing families with young children. It is amazing the difference between parenting styles and how that can impact other citizens enjoying activities around them. I love kids! But if a child is exhibiting disruptive behaviour and the parent(s) condone it, that's when others attempting to enjoy cruise life get frustrated! Yes, a parent pays for their infant or child or teen to go on the cruise, but so did the other 1400 passengers aboard. Everyone has a right to enjoy the wonderful vacation they paid for....but not if that means at the expense of the other passengers.

The original poster was right, it is about common courtesy.

My personal opinion is that I would respect my fellow passengers by having a grand ol' time with my walkie talkies as I stroll around the ship but I would turn it off as I entered a quiet, romantic restaurant with classical music playing in the background!

But that's just me...
Now on to another thread...

[jhannah]

Now girls .......