Cruise ships as shelters?

[Oceanwench]

Today's Palm Beach Post has a front-page story on using cruise ships to shelter those made homeless by a hurricane!
[I will try to insert the link to palmbeachpost.com at the end of this ... forgive me if it doesn't work!]

The Federal Emergency Management Agnecy is apparently considering this measure, figuring that a family could be housed at approximately $100/day.
According to the article, FEMA pays about $35K per trailer to house homeless families, so a cruise ship would seem a better alternative.
FEMA would not want the casinos to operate, would not expect "cruise cuisine" to be served, and would not want entertainment to be provided.

FEMA's biggest concern appears to be the public's perception -- how this would play in the media. The government would be sending hurricane victims on cruises!

I thought this might generate an interesting discussion!

Some flaws in all of this:

1. The cruise ship would have to cancel all its reservations for weeks or months and reimburse all the booked passengers.

2. All excursions would be canceled, funds refunded, etc.

3. What about tips for the crew? If FEMA expects to pay $100/day/family ...

4. Casinos would be closed -- they make money for the cruise industry.

5. Entertainers would be out of a job.

6. Does FEMA know the size of some of those cabins? :eek:

A co-worker of mine just got back into her home after living in a FEMA-purchased trailer since September. A lot of people had severe hurricane damage ... does this mean they would be on a 6-month cruise?

www.palmbeachpost.com (http://www.palmbeachpost.com)

[trubey]

Remember that during the Falklands war the British Government commandeered QEII (I think it was the QE, anyway) as a troopship. They converted it for carrying soldiers and equipment, and after the war returned it to its original condition. I believe it cost them 21 million Pounds Sterling.

I have a friend who is a ship captain (freighter, North Atlantic) who has had his ship commandeered several times in emergencies. If the US Government WANTS to do this, they probably can (Doug? Any thoughts on Maritime Law?) but I think the country would rise up in unanimous protest.

jmho.

Lane

[peaches from georgia]

.... but I think the country would rise up in unanimous protest.
Lane
Several years ago I would have said the same thing, but it is hard to believe what citizens accept now from the government and don't say a word.

[Druke I]

Trubey

The Brits utilized STUFT (ships taken up from trade) to impress QE2, Canberra, and several other ships into service as troopers for their Falklands campaign. All ships taken up were British registered.

I don't believe the American gov't can impress foreign flagged vessels in the same manner, although it certainly would make an interesting Maritime Court case.

Similar proposals regarding ships have been made in the past to relieve jail overcrowding, etc.

[tomc]

Sounds like "balloon-floating" from a middle-level exec to see how it goes over. If the general public and the press give it the razzberry, the high-level person who thought it up doesn't have to take the heat.

[Implicit in all this is the after-hurricane statement]
"...A spokesman for the governor's office said, 'I hope all those comfortable Northerners are having a good time on their cruise while thousands of people here are sleeping in storm-wrecked shells of homes, rather than small, but safe ship cabins..."

[Oceanwench]

Can someone actually link to the story?
I am concerned that it will soon disappear from the Post's Web page ... it will definitely be gone by tomorrow, but still available for a week or so.

**computer challenged** :confused:

[CDRMark]

Similar proposals regarding ships have been made in the past to relieve jail overcrowding, etc.
Imagine my crews chagrin when this proposal was made (ie to use Navy ships excess capacity for prisoners), and accommodations were found to be "substandard" for the incarcerated.
Cheers
MarkB

[Nliedel]

It is just not a feasable idea. The travel industry has a large lobby in Washington and I suspect it would not go over in the least.

[jhannah]

I do like the idea of taking Naval vessels bound for the scrap heap and converting them into housing and/or jail facilities. They wouldn't cruise, of course, but would be permanently docked. In the case of a jail ship, it could be permanently anchored offshore in shark-infested waters.

[Oceanwench]

I do like the idea of taking Naval vessels bound for the scrap heap and converting them into housing and/or jail facilities. They wouldn't cruise, of course, but would be permanently docked. In the case of a jail ship, it could be permanently anchored offshore in shark-infested waters.

That would be off the coast of southern Palm Beach County, now!

[tomc]

Oceanwench...

Your link works just fine.

[elmorejj]

Peaches, I agree with you totally.......jean :cool:

[Oceanwench]

Peaches, I agree with you totally.......jean :cool:

I do too.

[Oceanwench]

Oceanwench...

Your link works just fine.

But the Web site will change over the course of the day, and the cruise ships as shelters story could be moved.
Tomorrow the site will be totally different; it's a newspaper!
So if someone can link the story itself, that would be better.

You know, how Dakrewser always says click here, and the "here" is the link?
:confused:

[tomc]

http://www.palmbeachpost.com/storm/content/news/epaper/2005/03/26/m1a_canes_0326.html

[Oceanwench]

Thanks ... I guess I could have done that!
:rolleyes:

[tomc]

Folks, we really should keep this in perspective. Just this morning, I received an e-mail about a family that was wiped out in a tragic car accident. It was from a relative who has no one to turn to and asked me to assist in funneling their money from Nigeria to my bank account in the States. This is confidential, and should not be talked about off the board. Apparently, I am known for being reliable, as I have received three or four in the past couple of weeks. So we should keep in mind that there are families dying in car wrecks all over Nigeria with nobody left to care for their financial affairs.

[Himself]

tom:

The one you cited sound like a scam to me. I usually delete those.

Himself

[tomc]

One of them even found my last name; I played along until I got tired of it. Used one of my fake Hotmail addresses. Fun while it lasted. Sometime when I'm bored, I'll do it again with one of my fake names.

[Himself]

Fake name or no fake name, you are still a nice guy

[tomc]

My fake names are all nice people, btw. Sometimes I just don't want to be identified; three of them are newspaper names. One I use just for spammers. On the boards, I'm either "tomc" or my real name; there are enough people with my IRL name to confuse anyone, including me, and even two in broadcasting!

[Oceanwench]

I am totally lost here ...
Meanwhile, you're going to prompt another complaint that you're off topic!!!

Sad ... I was enjoying that thread that was just locked and wanted to post to it!

tomc ... are you saying we should use cruise ships for all those victims over in nigeria? until, of course, the money is funneled out to the US!
seems they have my address too. ;)

[mariner]

I'm sure this idea sprang up from using cruise ships as hotel rooms during the Super Bowl.

Haven't read the article, but I would imagine FEMA plans on using docked ships, not sending the homeless on a cruise to nowhere without a casino.

Given surplus berths, I'm sure some lines wouldn't object to chartering their ships. I'm sure the crew's tips would be factored into the price.

Those who think this is bad might think otherwise if your home was destroyed. I'd take the ship before the trailer. And if it saves taxpayers' money, I'm all in favor.

Must remember with the QE2 and Falklands, the British government helped subsidize her construction. Use in war was part of the deal.

[Oceanwench]

Actually, the ships would leave port if there were a threat of another storm -- such as our back-to-back hurricanes last September.

I know people who were left homeless due to the storms. Many found temporary shelters in hotels/motels, and some in trailers.

A co-worker spent much of each work day making calls to contractors, FEMA, her insurance company, etc. to arrange for rebuilding/repairing/replacing items. She only recently moved back into her home.

My home had minor damage, and we were only inconvenienced by the lack of power for several days. But had the damage been more severe, I know the last place I'd want to be would be holed up in a cabin of a cruise ship in Port Everglades!

[Pudgesmom]

I think the ship would have to be docked, if they even considered it. Just because people have lost their homes doesn't mean they also lost their jobs. Also, children would still need to go to school. (but they might prefer a cruise to nowhere!)

Beth

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oceanwench, so amazing you posted about this because I was going to write about it after my company left today.

This is without a doubt the stupidest idea that FEMA has ever come up with! I don't know what's happening with these people. You will recall that they are the same folks who funnelled $30 million in hurricane aid to Miami-Dade County last summer where they were barely affected by the hurricanes. I wouldn't even want to repeat some of the stories I heard here last summer about how FEMA dispensed with our tax dollars.

So it should come as no surprise that they've come up with this ridiculous idea. Aside from anything else, I literally laughed out loud when they stated one of the benefits of this would be that they could sail out of harm's way should another hurricane rear its ugly head.

These people have jobs!!! They have lives!!! They are not looking to be housed at sea for weeks on end!

The only reason they came up with this is they think it would be cheaper than the mobile homes that relief agencies bought last year to house the people forced out of their homes. But I don't see how any rational person would think this is a workable solution.

And can you imagine the arguments between people about who would have the suites and who would have the inside cabins? If I didn't know better and I hadn't read the article myself, I'd think it was a joke.

[kryos]

And can you imagine the arguments between people about who would have the suites and who would have the inside cabins? If I didn't know better and I hadn't read the article myself, I'd think it was a joke.
I didn't see this article, but I would imagine the ships used would be older ones that maybe were no longer in service as cruise ships? As for the actual cruise, I would imagine all they will do is sail someplace out of harm's way and then anchor in the ocean. Or, perhaps they would sail someplace where regular maintenance could be performed on the ship, akin to a drydock.

I don't think these people would be on a cruise, per se. There would be no port stops, few organized activities, no luxury dinners, etc. I liken it to the Semester at Sea ship ... barebones accommodations, buffet style meals, etc. The passengers would make their own entertainment since there would be no professional entertainers onboard. I would imagine there would be teachers onboard and school would be conducted for the children.

Remember, some of these people that would be housed on the cruiseship would normally not be able to afford to cruise. Hence, they wouldn't use the bars or the casino. So, those facilities could remain closed. Since the ships used would probably be ones that are not in service ... i.e., scheduled for maintenance anyway, service personnel would have been assigned elsewhere anyway. You would just have a barebones crew onboard ... no cabin stewards, waiters, entertainers, bar servers, etc. Passengers would get fresh linens twice a week, and maybe be allowed to send one bag of laundry per person out each week. Each passenger would be expected to keep his or her own cabin tidy. Remember, this would not be a cruise experience, per se, and everyone being housed on the ship would be expected to work together to keep their housing expenses down.

As for who would get inside cabins and who would get suites, I would imagine these would be assigned based on number of people in each family. If you have a family of four kids, I would imagine you would get a suite. If you were just a couple with one child, perhaps an outside stateroom, singles would be paired by gender and get the inside staterooms, etc.

I don't know ... sounds like a good idea to me, but then maybe I'm not thinking the concept through.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[HeatherInFlorida]

Rita, I was kidding about the suites and inside cabins.

As for the rest of it, you really would have to read the article. Everything you say is a given. Of course there's no entertainment, etc. It's not a cruise. However, it is NOT old cruiseships they are talking about. I believe they have another place for such ships ... they're sold for scrap.

In this instance they are talking about the ships we are cruising on. It would be a huge loss of revenue for the cruiseship companies and hence the economy ... not to mention the cost of refurbishment to get them back up to the quality passengers would expect. It's insane.

When you think through the whole concept, it becomes apparent (at least to me) that it is not a viable solution to the problem. These people need to be near where they work and live, go to school, etc.

I honestly believe that if you think the whole thing through, you'll see that it just doesn't work. BTW, there's no talk of schooling or anything else ... this is simply to house people who have lost the use of their homes. It's an insane idea thought up by the same guy who sent $30 million in the wrong direction.

[kryos]

In this instance they are talking about the ships we are cruising on. It would be a huge loss of revenue for the cruiseship companies and hence the economy ... not to mention the cost of refurbishment to get them back up to the quality passengers would expect. It's insane.

If they are talking revenue-generating cruise ships, then the idea will never fly. The cruiselines wouldn't permit it. Why on earth should they lose viable revenue to house homeless folks? Who would make this revenue up to them? The county, the state, the federal government? No, I would think that the only way an idea like this would fly would be if old, out of service cruise ships were used as shelters. These ships would have servicable staterooms ... certainly not luxury accommodations by any means ... but liveable until better accommodations could be made available to these folks on land.

As for getting to work ... maybe the cruiseships would remain docked somewhere, with buses provided to take people to their places of employment. Also, if the hurricane was that devastating, it could be many of those people no longer have jobs because their employers' workplace was wiped out.

I guess this "think tank" that came up with the idea figured that a cruiseship cuold house a heck of a lot of homeless people ... since the accommodations tend to be small. But, you're right ... how these people will get to their jobs and school is gonna be the question. If we're looking at long-term accommodations here, then something is gonna have to be worked out for these folks to generate an income and for the children to continue their schooling uninterrupted.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[blackbird71]

I was ROTFL yesterday when I read this in the St. Pete Times or the Tampa Trib. (for $1.50 I can buy two full Sunday's papers :)) To me it sounds like a Used Ships Broker was trying to off load some ships onto the Fed Govt.

Couple more points.

a) Most cabins on cruise ships are only for two, what about the kids.

b) Most non-retired people have both man and wife working and with two cars. Duhhhhh for that 2,000 pax ship you may need up to 2,000 places to park cars.


I was on the Cunard Countess before and after the Falkland war. The British Govt spent a lot of money rebuilding the Countess after using it.

[HeatherInFlorida]

I don't want to belabor this, but they were not talking about "old ships". There are not a lot of "old ships" just sitting around!

There are only certain places where a cruiseship could be moored so the ships would not necessarily be near the devastated areas.

You can also house a heck of a lot of people in a hotel, but I don't hear anyone suggesting they empty the hotels and put people there.

I honestly think this idea, like so many others, will die before it's hardly seen the light of day. Maybe they were just "floating" the idea out there to see the response.

[blackbird71]

I don't want to belabor this, but they were not talking about "old ships". There are not a lot of "old ships" just sitting around!
Well there are old ships being sold to the breakers every year. So today probably not but that could change if the Feds were buying them.

There are only certain places where a cruiseship could be moored so the ships would not necessarily be near the devastated areas.

The only thing that make sense in this idea, is the ships could be moved. IF a cane hit SC a Florida based ship could be moved up there.




I honestly think this idea, like so many others, will die before it's hardly seen the light of day. Maybe they were just "floating" the idea out there to see the response.

Myself I think you are right but have to add, I do not think they thought of the cost and up keep needed on any ship.