Passengers removed from ship for failure to muster

[blazeconsulting]

Information from a friend who works at Port Everglades for the Sheriff's Office, this past weekend on a HAL Jazz Cruise, several passengers failed to appear for muster. They were located and removed from the ship, including the engineer for one of the jazz bands. Serious stuff...finally!

[baggal]

Impressive.

[KirkNC]

I would need to see some confirmation of that before I believed it. While I am all for serious musters, that sounds a little extreme.

[DizzyDallasDi]

Information from a friend who works at Port Everglades for the Sheriff's Office, this past weekend on a HAL Jazz Cruise, several passengers failed to appear for muster. They were located and removed from the ship, including the engineer for one of the jazz bands. Serious stuff...finally!

What a bunch of idiots. Do you know which ship?

[kazu]

Really? *(not doubting you at all but wow!) When I sailed Princess the last time, they told me I could skip it as I had sailed before and could just watch it on TV. Now this is the way it should be! We are told to be there and we should be!

[Kabana]

Good, if you can't take 15 min out of your party to show up at a lifeboat drill you should not be on a ship.

[CruiserBruce]

May be true, but I also want confirmation. Were they kicked off for failing to attend, or for failing the attitude test when told they had to attend.... Or some other stupidity during the process?

[Cruise Organizer]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

[CruiserBruce]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

Just curious-how many HAL cruises have you been on? We have been on 7, and every lifeboat drill was done before sailing. In fact of our 15 cruises, all but one lifeboat drill was before sailing. The one was a midnight sailing from San Juan, with people still arriving onboard at 10pm. The lifeboat drill was the next morning before we docked.

[innlady1]

We've been on several HAL cruises and every time, the lifeboat drill is held just prior to sailaway.

Impressive it's finally being taken seriously.

[kazu]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

I have to ask the same questions as Bruce on this one - we have been on one whole hal lot of cruises - tended to longer as we got on, but I have NEVER seen a muster after we got to sea. Every muster I have seen on HAL (and in fact on any ship I have been on) is the life boat drill is done BEFORE you sail. :confused: Make ups for people who arrive late are totally different and they MUST attend - that will be a sea day most likely =

[3rdGenCunarder]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

My three recent HAL cruises all had the muster drill before we left port. But I don't recall them calling roll or collecting cabin numbers. I'm certain they didn't do that on my cruise last fall.

So does this mean they're taking attendance at the muster now? It makes things run a bit longer, but I think they should do that.

I think there must be more to the story than just skipping the drill. Being put off the ship seems a drastic punishment.

[sail7seas]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?


It is a rare few HAL cruises (out of a great many) that we did not have muster drill prior to sailing. It is most common for HAL muster to be at 4:15. Sailaway would most usually be 5 P.M.

[Cate M.]

On recent Maasdam cruise attendance was not taken so there is no way to know if we were at muster drill or not. Cannot believe story. On my 10 cruises I have been on (5 with HAL) all drills were done before sailing.

[san diego sue]

Last week the Hotel Manager on the Oosterdam told our cruise critic group that if people fail to go to Muster drill they will be not allowed to sail. They will also go back to taking roll. They mean business in light of the Concordia .The roll call on Muster was suppose to start this past Saturday.

[Himself]

I am currently on the Nieuw Amsterdam and at the muster drill it was announced that anyone who refused to attend the muster drill would not be allowed to sail. I don't think it was anyone on our ship but I know the Westerdam left after we sailed. This was yesterday--Sunday.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Last week the Hotel Manager on the Oosterdam told our cruise critic group that if people fail to go to Muster drill they will be not allowed to sail. They will also go back to taking roll. They mean business in light of the Concordia .The roll call on Muster was suppose to start this past Saturday.

I wonder if this will be stated in the contract of passage?

[startwin]

Every HAL cruise I've been on, muster drill has been at 4:15 pm, with sailaway around 5 pm.

[RuthC]

I've done something like 40 HAL cruises. The only time I can recall a muster after sailing was the Alaska cruise out of Seward when it was held the next morning. Since sailing was so late, and passengers were arriving right up until then, it couldn't be held late afternoon as is customary.

Now, as to the reason those passengers were let off, I suspect missing muster was part of the story, but only part.

[blazeconsulting]

It was a Jazz Cruise on HAL, and I believe it must have left this weekend from Fort Lauderdale as the discussion was today. I cannot "prove" it, but the information came from a Broward County Sheriff Deputy...don't know why they would make up the story. I do not know how many were involved, but was told more than one, with at least one of them from a jazz band booked onboard.

It is possible that the removal came on the heels of a bad attitude when they were finally located, that I cannot say.

Not trying to spread rumors, just had info that I thought was relevant, for the safety of all of us!

[Kabana]

There is a jazz cruise charter on the Westerdam this week and next I believe.

[Mar56]

While watching the sailaway this weekend i heard over the radio "he's packing now.". I didnt think anything of it but now? Hmmmmm.

[Rowsby]

Good....it needs to be serious...

I wonder if these were the cabin numbers that were repeatedly called before sailaway....

[Himself]

I told you about the announcement on the N.A. I think since the events overseas a couple weeks ago, these things are being taken more seriously by the cruise line and guests alike.

[kazu]

I told you about the announcement on the N.A. I think since the events overseas a couple weeks ago, these things are being
taken more seriously by the cruise line and guests alike.

Thanks Father - so this is really on the up and up? good:)

[deltadoug13]

We were listening to the live audio from the Westerdam on the Port Everglades Webcam on Sunday, and heard that passengers in either 7005 or 7009 did not report to the muster drill and they were delaying the scheduled 1700 departure. There was no audio update from the ship after that, but the Westerdam did depart over 30 minutes late. My guess is they were removed from the ship.
We'll be on the Westerdam next Sunday, so you can bet I'll be early for the drill. I'll try to find out what happened from the crew.

[Riverwatcher]

Our first cruise in 2006 had muster drill before leaving Port Everglades. The next day in the dining room there was a couple wearing their lifejackets. We were told by a crew member that it was the Captain's punishment for them skipping muster.

Riverwatcher

[Valley Girl of VA]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

On all my HAL cruises, they were done before we sailed - usually around 4 - 4:30 PM

[deltadoug13]

There is a jazz cruise charter on the Westerdam this week and next I believe.

This is the 3rd and final week of Jazz cruises on the Westerdam.

[CowPrincess]

I hope they start confiscating the "adult beverages" people have been bringing to muster, too.

[tbrein]

In Sept. on the Nieuw Amsterdam, we left Venice at 1 pm. The muster drill was held after sailaway about 2:15 pm. So in some circumstances it is held after leaving port.
We were told that it was held at that time to give people time to have lunch and watch the sailaway.
Terri

[MadManOfBethesda]

I wonder if this will be stated in the contract of passage?

That authority has always been there:

6. Authority to Remove Passengers: We may reasonably determine that for your safety, the safety of the Ship or other means of transportation or the safety or comfort of other passengers or our employees, you be denied transportation either before or during the Cruise, Cruisetour or HAL Land Trip. By way of example, these would include situations where: (a) you are or become in such condition as to be unfit to travel or dangerous or obnoxious to other passengers or employees; (b) you are inadmissible under the immigration or other laws of any country included in the Cruise, Cruisetour or HAL Land Trip itinerary or fail at any time to possess required travel documents; or (c) you fail to abide by the rules or orders of the Master or other ship's officers. If transportation is denied after departure, you and your baggage may be landed or transported to any port or location that we select, without any resulting liability on our part.

http://book.hollandamerica.com/view/policies/cruise.jsp

[3rdGenCunarder]

We were listening to the live audio from the Westerdam on the Port Everglades Webcam on Sunday, and heard that passengers in either 7005 or 7009 did not report to the muster drill and they were delaying the scheduled 1700 departure. There was no audio update from the ship after that, but the Westerdam did depart over 30 minutes late. My guess is they were removed from the ship.
We'll be on the Westerdam next Sunday, so you can bet I'll be early for the drill. I'll try to find out what happened from the crew.

When you get back, please post to tell us what you learn.

Great avatar, BTW. Airedales are the best!

[IRL_Joanie]

Information from a friend who works at Port Everglades for the Sheriff's Office, this past weekend on a HAL Jazz Cruise, several passengers failed to appear for muster. They were located and removed from the ship, including the engineer for one of the jazz bands. Serious stuff...finally!

That explains the comments we heard between the Captain of the Westerdam and another crew person (possibly Security) regarding Stateroom 7005 and also something was said at a different time about He's packing now....

That also explains why the Westerdam left late yesterday.

Hehehehe, it sure is nice to have the Port Everglades Web Cam with sound:)

WTG HAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[tcook052]

It was a Jazz Cruise on HAL, and I believe it must have left this weekend from Fort Lauderdale as the discussion was today. I cannot "prove" it, but the information came from a Broward County Sheriff Deputy...don't know why they would make up the story. I do not know how many were involved, but was told more than one, with at least one of them from a jazz band booked onboard.

It is possible that the removal came on the heels of a bad attitude when they were finally located, that I cannot say.

Not trying to spread rumors, just had info that I thought was relevant, for the safety of all of us!

Please don't apologize as it's VERY relevant info both for the recent events plus it occured on a HAL ship. While there is undoubtedly more to the story I also can't see why a police officer would be making things up.

Like everyone I too can't muster up enough sympathy for those who can't be bothered to follow the rules which are there for their own good.

[TiogaCruiser]

Father Himself, was there anything else different about the drill?
Were lifevests worn? Any other changes?

I can't help but suspect there may be changes to the Seward and other late sailings- either by boarding and all Aboard being earlier, or later drills.

One more thought: assuming a rollcall is part of a real evacuation, and musters ARE drills with crew practicing some skills and teaching, why would rollcall NOT be done?

[IRL_Joanie]

Last week the Hotel Manager on the Oosterdam told our cruise critic group that if people fail to go to Muster drill they will be not allowed to sail. They will also go back to taking roll. They mean business in light of the Concordia .The roll call on Muster was suppose to start this past Saturday.

..... I have heard in a long time!!!

Joanie

[startwin]

That explains the comments we heard between the Captain of the Westerdam and another crew person (possibly Security) regarding Stateroom 7005 and also something was said at a different time about He's packing now....

That also explains why the Westerdam left late yesterday.

Hehehehe, it sure is nice to have the Port Everglades Web Cam with sound:)

WTG HAL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
'

That's exactly what I was thinking, Joanie! Now it makes sense.

[TiogaCruiser]

Isn't it the same Captain that doesnt wait for anyone???*

(Captain, my hat's off to you!)


*(remember THAT thread?)

[Holden von Vloppen]

On my last cruise I had a migraine during the muster drill and did NOT feel like going to it, but I did. My meds were not working and I wanted to just stay in my cabin.

[mountainmare]

On our Jan 13 Noordam cruise during the Captain Q & A he said that the rules for attending muster were going to get tighter with roll taken and he could throw anyone who refused to attend off the ship. This was in response to the Concordia sinking.
They also held crew saftey drills which were a little more detailed and longer than usual (according to some crew members that we spoke with).

[erewhon]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

We have attended passenger safety drills while at sea, but they were the second safety drill of the cruise, the first safety drill held prior to sailing.
Day 22 of the Trans Pacific Cruise 2008, the second safety drill was held at 4.15 pm.
Day 26 of the Trans Pacific crossing in 2010 the passenger safety drill was held at 10 30 am, where crew had to tell some passengers where to find their lifeboat.

[Cuizer2]

I would need to see some confirmation of that before I believed it. While I am all for serious musters, that sounds a little extreme.

Given what recently happened on Costa, if it were up to me, I would kick them off also.

[erewhon]

Our first cruise in 2006 had muster drill before leaving Port Everglades. The next day in the dining room there was a couple wearing their lifejackets. We were told by a crew member that it was the Captain's punishment for them skipping muster.

Riverwatcher

Which ship?

[deltadoug13]

When you get back, please post to tell us what you learn.

Great avatar, BTW. Airedales are the best!

Our dogs are actually Welsh Terriers,which are smaller versions of Airedales. Mulligan is 18 lbs. and Molly is 15 lbs. of Non-Shedding companions.
Would love to be able to bring them on board.

[deltadoug13]

Isn't it the same Captain that doesnt wait for anyone???*

(Captain, my hat's off to you!)


*(remember THAT thread?)

I believe Capt. PJ is off the Westerdam until March.
Not sure of the spelling, but the current Captain is Capt. Hindig.
Sounds like he runs a tight ship..This is one rule that will be enforced for the time being. Good for him.

[Feelin' Nauti']

Really? *(not doubting you at all but wow!) When I sailed Princess the last time, they told me I could skip it as I had sailed before and could just watch it on TV. Now this is the way it should be! We are told to be there and we should be!
Our cabin steward told us we could stay in the cabin.
But we didn't and went to the drill.

[sail7seas]

I'm interested to know if 'warning' was given that anyone who didn't attend would be put off the ship.

[RuthC]

I'm interested to know if 'warning' was given that anyone who didn't attend would be put off the ship.

I am, too. There's a big difference between failure to attend muster, and refusal to attend muster.

Failure means not showing up for any number of reasons, some of which could be innocent. Refusal means you were told to get your sweet self there, and then deliberately didn't go.

[TiogaCruiser]

I believe Capt. PJ is off the Westerdam until March.
Not sure of the spelling, but the current Captain is Capt. Hindig.
Sounds like he runs a tight ship..This is one rule that will be enforced for the time being. Good for him.

Was it Captain PJ who left that tarde guy in Aruba?

[dzcruisers]

On X and RCI they do take roll call and the person that is not there or late becoimes "hated";):rolleyes: for everyone has to wait until they are found and get to the muster drill.They announce their names and ask if anytone knows them. Sometimes it's someone not paying attention who forgot to check in.(the man behind me)

[Feelin' Nauti']

Information from a friend who works at Port Everglades for the Sheriff's Office, this past weekend on a HAL Jazz Cruise, several passengers failed to appear for muster. They were located and removed from the ship, including the engineer for one of the jazz bands. Serious stuff...finally!
Why was the Broward County Sheriff's office called?

Usually Holland has older passengers, doubt very much they would cause a scene.
;)

[Boytjie]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.

All of ours have happened while in port and before sail-away.

[CruiserBruce]

Why was the Broward County Sheriff's office called?

Usually Holland has older passengers, doubt very much they would cause a scene.
;)
Not on 7 day cruises, plus this sounds like a series of special interest (jazz) cruises. Please don't perpetuate stereotypes.

[Copper10-8]

I'm interested to know if 'warning' was given that anyone who didn't attend would be put off the ship.



Yes, that warning, and consequences if failing, being located by "sweep teams" and then refusing to attend, is now part of the revised p/a announcement given by the cruise director prior to the (new name) passenger emergency drill. It went into effect on Maasdam effective 01/27/2012 in Ft. Lauderdale

[sail7seas]

Thanks, John.

As Ruth says, with warning, it turns into refusal vs. failure. :eek:

[PathfinderEss]

McDaddy was on that Westerdam cruise, he joined us on the Port Everglades thread yesterday before board her, hope he comes back to tell us for sure what was going on. We certainly heard enough comments from the bridge yesterday to know something was happening.

[djhsolara]

All I can say is GOOD GOOD GOOD!! If you are asked to attend something like muster then you need to go...no excuses. We all need to know what to do in case of an emergency.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Feelin' Nauti']

Not on 7 day cruises, plus this sounds like a series of special interest (jazz) cruises. Please don't perpetuate stereotypes.I wasn't implying well beyond middle aged. :rolleyes:
It's not Spring Break, or anything like that. So, I gathered this sailing had a lot more older clientele rather than young people with children.

[Indycal]

Yes, that warning, and consequences if failing, being located by "sweep teams" and then refusing to attend, is now part of the revised p/a announcement given by the cruise director prior to the (new name) passenger emergency drill. It went into effect on Maasdam effective 01/27/2012 in Ft. Lauderdale

I am glad to hear this. When we were with our friends on the Eurodam last September, we were upset that roll was not taken and people were talking and joking during the muster. Our previous HAL cruises had been much more strigent, and I am sorry it took a tragedy for the muster to be done the right way again.

[canadianbear]

I am glad to hear this. When we were with our friends on the Eurodam last September, we were upset that roll was not taken and people were talking and joking during the muster. Our previous HAL cruises had been much more strigent, and I am sorry it took a tragedy for the muster to be done the right way again.

I hadn't cruised for a couple of years and was surprised on the Eurodam they didn't take roll call....I'm glad it's going back to the way it was and hope people pay attention and arrive on time.

[cccole]

Yes, that warning, and consequences if failing, being located by "sweep teams" and then refusing to attend, is now part of the revised p/a announcement given by the cruise director prior to the (new name) passenger emergency drill. It went into effect on Maasdam effective 01/27/2012 in Ft. Lauderdale

Hi - I am just curious...do the "sweep teams" look for specific passengers who have not signed in, or for any passengers relaxing when they should be attending the drill? I thought that I always had to identify myself to a crew member when showing up at the appropriate spot. Would the captain delay a departure if individuals were not located? Again, just curious. Cherie

[bob brown]

As a result of the Costa tragedy, I look for a conference that will soon result in new SOLAS regs, industry wide, that will make the muster or passenger emergency or whatever they call it, much more extensive, than in the quickie drills done previously. If the shiplines don't enact such themselves, I am confident their underwriter's will push for it.

[Copper10-8]

Hi - I am just curious...do the "sweep teams" look for specific passengers who have not signed in, or for any passengers relaxing when they should be attending the drill? I thought that I always had to identify myself to a crew member when showing up at the appropriate spot. Would the captain delay a departure if individuals were not located? Again, just curious. Cherie

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

[vbmom87]

Hi - I am just curious...do the "sweep teams" look for specific passengers who have not signed in, or for any passengers relaxing when they should be attending the drill? I thought that I always had to identify myself to a crew member when showing up at the appropriate spot. Would the captain delay a departure if individuals were not located? Again, just curious. Cherie

Exactly what I was thinking. What if the "missing folks" did a good job of hiding and couldn't be found. Would they really delay the ship leaving port?

[airlink diva]

If this was the case, I don't feel for them at all. I can recall years ago where I had a tablemate brag how she hid in her cabin closet to avoid the muster drill.
Yes they are a pain in the butt, however it's a vital to know what and where to go in case the unthinkable happen.
On all my HAL sailings, the muster drill was done prior to sailing and a roll call of cabin number (and name if no answer by cabin number) at your lifeboat station.
The only time I can recall a muster drill done after sailing was on my 14 day cruise. We had a cruise within a cruise. On our Barbados stop, you had people boarding for the start of their 14 day cruise and with some not arriving until late in the evening, these people had muster drill in st. Lucia during time in port.

[TiogaCruiser]

Exactly what I was thinking. What if the "missing folks" did a good job of hiding and couldn't be found. Would they really delay the ship leaving port?

Well, they gotta eat........

[scraplady]

As we are heading out this summer on our 1st cruise, I'm very happy to see that the muster drills are mandatory. I'm glad the companies are taking more precautions to prevent a repeat of the disaster in Europe

[MSMcDuffy]

On my HAL cruises roll call was taken (last one in '08) but not on my Princess cruises. In fact, two in our party missed it because they got back from the pool too late but when we returned to our cabin the two that missed it had been watching it on TV and had put their life jackets on. I was surprised they got away with not going.

I personally look forward to it; it's one of the only times you can see a lot of your fellow passengers all together at one time, and I always need to be reminded of how to put the life vest on--there are so many strings:o

[Topsham]

On recent Maasdam cruise attendance was not taken so there is no way to know if we were at muster drill or not. Cannot believe story. On my 10 cruises I have been on (5 with HAL) all drills were done before sailing.


Quite correct. Names are no longer taken but the stewards search every cabin after the alarm has sounded. If the guilty one were 'hiding' in their cabin or trying to staay out of sight somewhere, they would be found.

There is little point in taking names as HAL used to do. As we have seen on CORCORDIA, boat muster in a real emergeency would not be quiet enough to record every name. The cabin search is the best option.

Stephen

[Topsham]

If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark


Cuffs on or cuffs off?

Hope all is well with you. Good sailing!

Stephen

[Krazy Kruizers]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

Don't know what HAL ships you have sailed on.

We have been on quite a few HAL cruises -- over 700 days -- and 99% of the time our lifeboat drill has been at either 4:15 or 4:30.

The exception has been our late departure from Seward and we had lifeboat drill the next morning.

[Krazy Kruizers]

So - did this really happen??

[world~citizen]

...]Now, as to the reason those passengers were let off, I suspect missing muster was part of the story, but only part.

Yes, there is a story behind the story on that one, but I suspect it is one of stubborness with a subplot of disrespect directed to officers asking them to go to drill. Things will be different now.

[GeriatricNurse]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

And on all the (9) HAL cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs BEFORE we left left port! ;) Are you sure?:confused:

[GeriatricNurse]

I am currently on the Nieuw Amsterdam and at the muster drill it was announced that anyone who refused to attend the muster drill would not be allowed to sail. I don't think it was anyone on our ship but I know the Westerdam left after we sailed. This was yesterday--Sunday.

Also, was there any mention of having to, once again, wear lifejackets at muster? :confused:

[kazu]

So - did this really happen??

It sure sounds like it KK, especially with Copper John's confirmation of the new procedure and with what we heard in the back ground on the web cam.

Suits me just fine. Life boat drills are a 'pain' but they are very necessary. Anyone skipping them puts not only themselves but others at risk if there is an emergency.

[GeriatricNurse]

Yes, that warning, and consequences if failing, being located by "sweep teams" and then refusing to attend, is now part of the revised p/a announcement given by the cruise director prior to the (new name) passenger emergency drill. It went into effect on Maasdam effective 01/27/2012 in Ft. Lauderdale

John, will it once again be mandatory to wear life jackets to the "passenger emergency drill"? :confused:

[Krazy Kruizers]

After the joke of lifeboat drills on the Noordam -- HAL better step up and get things in control.

I have no problem attending them.

[DFD1]

Good for HAL. Muster is serious business. I'm glad HAL has started taking it more seriously, whatever the reason.

[mamaofami]

On our recent Maasdam cruise which left the same day as the Costa incident, no one took attendance. I was surprised since that was the first time that has happened. These drills are serious. People who don't attend should not be allowed to sail.

[rafinmd]

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

Under this procedure are B2B or collectors cruise passengers no longer exempt from the drills? Seems reasonable they should be required to attend rather than figure out which PAX not at the station would be exempt that way.

Roy

[English_in_Spain]

Apart from insisting that everyone attends and not allowing them to sail if they refuse, cruise lines (not just HAL) need to enforce the rules about no food and drinks at the drill and to make sure people keep quiet and listen and not clown around.

On cruises in Europe where instructions have to be repeated in several languages, passengers must keep quiet during announcements in languages other than their own. We know it can be tedious to stand and listen to 4, 5 or more languages but it is so important.

I am sure, if on a ship where English is not the first language, you would want everyone to keep quite when the English announcements came.

[gelo7]

A tone needs to be set.

[CruiserBruce]

Under this procedure are B2B or collectors cruise passengers no longer exempt from the drills? Seems reasonable they should be required to attend rather than figure out which PAX not at the station would be exempt that way.

Roy

We were required to attend the second life boat drill on our B2B in December, but not the second one on our B2B in Aug 2010. So the policy may have changed prior to Concordia.

[Boytjie]

I can't recall seeing anyone with food or drink at the muster drill. Most of my cruises have been RSVP charters and it is usually a jolly crowd: it's not unusual to see people in funny outfits at the drill which bothers me a bit as it can make light of what I see as a serious event. There are usually some chatty people but luckily nobody with cocktail in hand. And they do love their cocktails :)

[dr.dawg]

maybe i'm wrong, but it seems to me that on the front of the newletter which is placed in cabins on embarkation day there is a message about the muster drill, and the word used to describe it is MANDATORY. now, what about 'mandatory' is confusing? this is not a suggestion or invitation to attend; frankly, it is an order to attend. i'm glad there will be a return to roll call, if that is indeed the case. i'd really be happy to see a return to wearing life jackets to muster; at one time they used to show you how to put on your life vest if you weren't wearing it correctly. and i hope from now on there is a little less 'party atmosphere' involved at muster. there has been some real 'slippage' in the past few years in this regard. i just think the MANDATORY life boat drill is very serious, even though no one thinks it is any 'highlight' of the cruise.

ps: sorry to sound like a 'grinch.' i'm really not one at all!

[Riverwatcher]

erewhon

It was the Volendam.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We were required to attend the second life boat drill on our B2B in December, but not the second one on our B2B in Aug 2010. So the policy may have changed prior to Concordia.

On 2 of several previous back-to-back cruises (also known as Collectors Cruises) we were exempt from the second lifeboat drill.

But on our recent Noordam Collectors Cruise we had to attend both drills.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I can't recall seeing anyone with food or drink at the muster drill. Most of my cruises have been RSVP charters and it is usually a jolly crowd: it's not unusual to see people in funny outfits at the drill which bothers me a bit as it can make light of what I see as a serious event. There are usually some chatty people but luckily nobody with cocktail in hand. And they do love their cocktails :)

On the Noordam we had people arrive with drinks in hand -- laughing andd talking the entire time. No one said anything to them and we could not hear the captain's speech.

One man started to open up a lounge chair to stretch out on -- a crew member told him to fold it back up.

[Wandering Writer]

Of the 50 or so cruises we have been on (on several different lines), there has only been one where we did the muster drill the day after sailing--and that was years ago. I think HAL is the most no-nonsense line when it comes to muster drills. But I agree, there was probably an attitude or something more to the story. Usually the no-shows are on the deck later getting a "private" muster drill.

[iriemon]

The missing people were probably reserving their longers by the pool - can't trust those chair hogs!

[3rdGenCunarder]

If this was the case, I don't feel for them at all. I can recall years ago where I had a tablemate brag how she hid in her cabin closet to avoid the muster drill.
Yes they are a pain in the butt, however it's a vital to know what and where to go in case the unthinkable happen.
<snip>

That's just plain stupid! Hiding in a little closet is better than going to the drill? Some people have a childish need to get away with something so they can think that they're clever. And this passenger would probably be the first to whine about not knowing where her muster station was if there had been an emergency.

I have to say that it has been quiet at the drills on our recent cruises. One thing that concerned me on Veendam was how crowded the deck was--and that was without the additional bulk of life vests making us take up even more space.

[3rdGenCunarder]

The missing people were probably reserving their longers by the pool - can't trust those chair hogs!

That raises a question. I have seen books, towels, sunglasses lounging in the sun. Has anyone ever tried using a life jacket to reserve a chair???

[iriemon]

Have not seen that but on our last cruise on the Zuiderdam in Dec, one gentleman showed up late wearing a robe, slippers and a life preserver. :eek: Cameras flashed. Don't know if he was caught in the shower and had to go to the muster drill or if he always wears his life preserver in the shower just in case. :)

[josie724]

Our dogs are actually Welsh Terriers,which are smaller versions of Airedales. Mulligan is 18 lbs. and Molly is 15 lbs. of Non-Shedding companions.
Would love to be able to bring them on board.


Speaking of bringing dogs on board....While we were on the NA in Jan there was a seeing eye dog on board. He was a beautiful black lab. While walking around the Promenade deck, at the very front of the ship,I noticed a very large shallow box with kitty litter in it.....I couldn't for the life of me figure out what it was doing there, until I saw the seeing eye dog. I thought it was great that they were able to accomadate the dogs needs.

[josie724]

I have to confess, on our first cruise, we tried to stay in our cabin, but they told us it was mandatory and there would be a roll call. We also had to where our life jackets. I was naive at the time and didn't realize how important it was.

[Aruba]

There were 2 dogs belonging to 2 separate owners on my recent 45-night Atlantic Adventurer cruise, neither of which was a seeing-eye dog. I assume there was a medical reason for them being on board. Couldn't help but laugh to see one of the dogs posing ("being posed" is more like it) for pictures on formal nights -- that was quite a sight.

I have to say though that I found it disturbing that one of the dogs was brought to PG for the Sommelier Dinner. It didn't bark or yap but I wasn't thrilled to pay $65 and have a dog sit 2 feet away from me. :rolleyes:

[Aruba]

Oops - sorry, somehow I posted this to the wrong board. I didn't mean to post about dogs on a thread about lifeboat drills!

[sailorgirl]

We're just off Ryndam and muster was held before we could even depart the port. We were held up by several passengers who did not report and the ship was not allowed to leave until they were located. Had they not shown, they would have been put off the ship. The muster is now taken much more seriously by all.

[George C]

I remember seeing them take attendance at the life boat drills to be sure that every one was there, but have not seen that on any recent cruise

[jtl513]

It's not Spring Break, or anything like that. So, I gathered this sailing had a lot more older clientele rather than young people with children.As has been pointed out, this was a Jazz charter, not your normal January 7-day cruise.

Besides, since you don't list any HAL cruises in your signature, how would you know what normal clientele looks like?

[Boytjie]

Oops - sorry, somehow I posted this to the wrong board. I didn't mean to post about dogs on a thread about lifeboat drills!

That's funny. I couldn't quite figure out how that off-topic tangent came about. :)

[bcd2010]

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

Okay, I understand "different strokes for different folks" but I can't imagine anyone going through all this without acquiescing and just going to the drill. It's almost as if this/these passenger(s) want to be thrown off the ship.

Once you get to the front desk, you're already most of the way there (to the muster station). And I don't think you're going to get your money refunded - I sure hope not. So what principle, giving the benefit of the doubt that there is a principle involved, would a person be defending? Or is it a sense of entitlement or being above the rules? What kind of thinking (?) goes on in their minds?

When I got the email from Stein Kruse, I wanted to email back and address this very issue - so glad they're doing so without my input ;) but I agree with another poster, too bad it took a tragedy...

[3rdGenCunarder]

Okay, I understand "different strokes for different folks" but I can't imagine anyone going through all this without acquiescing and just going to the drill. It's almost as if this/these passenger(s) want to be thrown off the ship.

Once you get to the front desk, you're already most of the way there (to the muster station). And I don't think you're going to get your money refunded - I sure hope not. So what principle, giving the benefit of the doubt that there is a principle involved, would a person be defending? Or is it a sense of entitlement or being above the rules? What kind of thinking (?) goes on in their minds?

When I got the email from Stein Kruse, I wanted to email back and address this very issue - so glad they're doing so without my input ;) but I agree with another poster, too bad it took a tragedy...

I think that's a lot of it. "You can't make me, I don't wanna, I'm the center of the universe and you can't tell me what to do, it's my DAM vacation..."

[ATL-Cpl]

Good....it needs to be serious...

I wonder if these were the cabin numbers that were repeatedly called before sailaway....


I heard it on the Port Everglades webcam also. They kept referring to a room (something)75. I don't think much of it until I saw this thread. It was quite a topic for about 10 minutes.

[topcop]

Why was the Broward County Sheriff's office called?

Usually Holland has older passengers, doubt very much they would cause a scene.
;)

Not ALL passengers are seniors, not by a long shot. On a recent HAL cruise there was a teenager with his family. He was walking around, for a couple of days, in a T-Shirt with the the king vulgarities word (cannot even indicate the first letter of the word or the CC Moderator will ban me from posting) in large print. I reported it was offensive to my wife and I and thought it to be offensive to most people. Security took care of the matter. So HAL cruisers may not all be serene, courteous and respectful.

I am sure the Deputies were standing by to make sure this/these clown(s) didn't cause a problem and help expedite the departure.

As for BTBs, on our cruise in 2011, we were not required to attend the second life boat drill and on the first one there was no roll call taken. So, on the turn around day we were lounging at the pool during the lifeboat drill. No one questioned us, though I was expecting someone to ask. I wonder if these sweep teams mentioned in an earlier post are something new?

[Copper10-8]

Cuffs on or cuffs off?

Hope all is well with you. Good sailing!

Stephen

Hi Captain! Cuffs off this time;)

Couple more FYIs: Names/Muster are once again taken by the boat commanders; that's how it becomes known if pax have not reported to their boat station, since they are not checked off the muster roll

Repeaters/those in transit, are no longer excempt from attending their 2nd muster, even if they have attended their first a week, or so, earlier. Everyone needs to be there, including those on their 2nd/3rd/4th voyage on the same ship

Lifevests/jackets are not required to be worn at the drill due to a history of passenger accidents occuring at the conclusion of same. Assistant boat commanders & helpers will demonstrate how to put the vests on properly as part of the drill complete with step-by-step commentary by the cruise director over the p/a sustem; it is illustrated in the "captain's welcome aboard/things to know" booklet distributed in every cabin, plus it is shown on one of the pax in-cabin TV channels

[kazu]

Hi Captain! Cuffs off this time;)

Couple more FYIs: Names/Muster are once again taken by the boat commanders; that's how it becomes known if pax have not reported to their boat station, since they are not checked off the muster roll

Repeaters/those in transit, are no longer excempt from attending their 2nd muster, even if they have attended their first a week, or so, earlier. Everyone needs to be there, including those on their 2nd/3rd/4th voyage on the same ship

Lifevests/jackets are not required to be worn at the drill due to a history of passenger accidents occuring at the conclusion of same. Assistant boat commanders & helpers will demonstrate how to put the vests on properly as part of the drill complete with step-by-step commentary by the cruise director over the p/a sustem; it is illustrated in the "captain's welcome aboard/things to know" booklet distributed in every cabin, plus it is shown on one of the pax in-cabin TV channels

Thanks Copper:D

[sue117]

When I was a freshman at college I remembered a story my older brother told me about when there was a fire drill at his college he stayed in his room and didn't bother to go. This seemed like a good plan for me too...so the first time the fire alarm went off I stood in my closet door...I did NOT expect the floor director to open my door to check to make sure my room was empty!

I took a step back and held my breath...I didn't get caught, but I was freaked out...and NEVER skipped a fire drill after that. It just wasn't worth my angst and stress! (not to mention it's a SAFETY issue! lol).

So yeah, I'm not sure why someone would deliberately skip it and if caught would still deliberately not go!

[bcnvcanada]

Maybe Holland America will begin to scan cruise cards at the drill, like some of the other lines. It makes it so much faster. It also makes it easier on the crew. Also last year on a Holland American ship out of San Diego, our drill was not held until the Fourth day. Coast Guard was on the ship to sailing time. Next day at sea, the seas were too rough, the third day we were in port and so on the fourth day the drill was held. However, when we got a new captain, in the middle of journey, another drill was held. It was a thirty day cruise.

[hrhdhd]

I think it's less important for all passengers to attend muster drill than for the captain not to be a showboating (ha!) idiot. :rolleyes:

(Please note the "less" above.)

Good to see that taking roll and sweep teams are (back) in place. People should certainly take the drill seriously. But in an actual emergency, less rational behavior will be rampant.

[Amuse Bouche]

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

It's simply baffling that someone would be so adamant about not attending that they would forego their vacation. I'd really like to just be able to take a look at these people. I want to know what an actual buffoon looks like! :D

For us, the drill is part of the experience. I have lots of funny pictures of my family putting on their vests in the cabin. It's also nice to take mental note of who will be getting on that lifeboat with you!! The buffoon laughing and joking with a souvenier cup of alcohol? We figure we'll do his wife a favor and knock him out and toss him in during an emergency. :D Like you Copper, hubby is a big guy well trained in how to do that without hurting him too much. ;)

So, on our last years cruise on the Oosterdam, we were back on board settling in for dinner, and over the PA, they started calling for 4 pax. Over and over...then we left an hour late. I heard they had to check with the excursion operator to find them, but they didn't have them. They still kept announcing for them for another hour. They were in a cabin close to ours, and we saw them being escorted, who knows where. Turns out, they were able to get back on without scanning their cards. I REALLY want to know how they did that! I was so impressed with the diligence the crew used to account for them tho. I guess no system is perfect, but at least the crew is efficient.

[sail7seas]

<snip>

So, on our last years cruise on the Oosterdam, we were back on board settling in for dinner, and over the PA, they started calling for 4 pax. Over and over...then we left an hour late. I heard they had to check with the excursion operator to find them, but they didn't have them. They still kept announcing for them for another hour. They were in a cabin close to ours, and we saw them being escorted, who knows where. Turns out, they were able to get back on without scanning their cards. I REALLY want to know how they did that! I was so impressed with the diligence the crew used to account for them tho. I guess no system is perfect, but at least the crew is efficient.



The fact the four you describe did not answer the page on the first call is, of course, not acceptable but the fact they were on board without their card having scanned may not have been their fault.

DH and I returned together to the ship from whatever port and we both scanned on as always.

At sailaway time, we heard DH's name paged. We were in our cabin so he called the extension they had directed. They were confirming he was aboard and not being left behind due to, NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, his card did not scan properly but no one said anything to inform him at the time.

There was no way for him to have known they showed him still ashore.

I certainly don't know if the same thing happened to the four you describe but am advising it is possible.

[Amuse Bouche]

The fact the four you describe did not answer the page on the first call is, of course, not acceptable but the fact they were on board without their card having scanned may not have been their fault.

DH and I returned together to the ship from whatever port and we both scanned on as always.

At sailaway time, we heard DH's name paged. We were in our cabin so he called the extension they had directed. They were confirming he was aboard and not being left behind due to, NO FAULT OF HIS OWN, his card did not scan properly but no one said anything to inform him at the time.

There was no way for him to have known they showed him still ashore.

I certainly don't know if the same thing happened to the four you describe but am advising it is possible.



Oh definitely!! I'm sure it wasn't their fault. It was an Alaskan cruise, they were Asian, so maybe they didn't speak English, and maybe their name was being mispronounced. The crew checked their cabin, so they might have been off in a part of the ship where the PA isn't clear.

I know they couldn't possibly have gotten back on without being scanned. I don't know how anyone can do that.

I was seriously impressed at the efforts to locate them, and the fact the ship left an hour late because they were missing. You read so much on here about passengers missing the boat. I think an hour was very generous!

Sorry if anyone thinks this is off topic, since accounting for passengers, and the cruise lines efficiency off accounting for passngers and the notion of scanning them at muster is on topic.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We're just off Ryndam and muster was held before we could even depart the port. We were held up by several passengers who did not report and the ship was not allowed to leave until they were located. Had they not shown, they would have been put off the ship. The muster is now taken much more seriously by all.

I am starting to like hearing about new policies -- actually old ones -- being enforced.

[Krazy Kruizers]

I remember seeing them take attendance at the life boat drills to be sure that every one was there, but have not seen that on any recent cruise

The last couple of years we have had Roll Call only on one cruise -- Amsterdam -- last June -- Alaska.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Maybe Holland America will begin to scan cruise cards at the drill, like some of the other lines. It makes it so much faster. It also makes it easier on the crew. Also last year on a Holland American ship out of San Diego, our drill was not held until the Fourth day. Coast Guard was on the ship to sailing time. Next day at sea, the seas were too rough, the third day we were in port and so on the fourth day the drill was held. However, when we got a new captain, in the middle of journey, another drill was held. It was a thirty day cruise.

I have read about those scanner on other cruise lines -- I really like that idea.

There were a couple of times when Roll Call was taken we would hear only one person answer for cabin and we wondered if he/she was sailing solo or only one person from the cabin came to the life boat drill.

Using the scanner withsome watching -- each person would have to scan their own card.

[Math Guy]

Information from a friend who works at Port Everglades for the Sheriff's Office, this past weekend on a HAL Jazz Cruise, several passengers failed to appear for muster. They were located and removed from the ship, including the engineer for one of the jazz bands. Serious stuff...finally!
Thanks for posting this information. The 2 most useles "lifeboat drills" that I have ever experienced in my total of 27 cruises, and which I found to be quite troubling, were both held aboard the Costa Atlantica, 2009 and 2010.

It's due time that lifeboat drills were treated with appropriate seriousness .

Lifejackets must be worn. Passengers must congregate at the required muster station. Attendance must be taken. You are not on a carnival ride. You are aboard a ship.

[GatorV]

The thought that a stupid person refusing to attend a muster could cause me or mine to be injured, delayed or killed is mind blowing.

They will be the ones screaming the loudest, not knowing where to go and crying for help...whch in turn slows it all down.

The ones that show up with drinks, and talk are now on my list, and you can bet I will be the one that now speaks up to a crew member.

I take the time to always do the drill, I have been greatly bothered they do not take roll any longer (just off the Maasdam in Dec.) but note changes now. I also take the time during my cruise to know where my station is from several different locations on the ship.

I will not die because of someone elses misguided, slack minded intentions. Yes, I have strong opnions about passenger/crew saftey.:cool:

[m steve]

where people talk on their cell phones during the entire time as if they had special rights and showed no concern for others. And others just talked to each other.

[Straughn]

We are on the Westerdam sailing leaving next Sunday and I am curious as to what changes will occur. This is only my second HAL cruise, the other being 4 years ago. On my most recent cruise (Dec 2011) on Celebrity, I was appalled at how the muster/safety/emergency drill was handled. My group met in a small lounge and the way the room was laid out, not everyone could see the crew member doing the life jacket demo. They did call cabin #'s, but nothing was done, to my knowledge, about the ones that were not there. There were a number of passengers standing (and complaining because they got there at the last minute and all the seats were taken); a number had beverages of the adult and soft varieties, several people checking and sending e-mail and texts, and a few talking among themselves. The actual emergency drill information lasted maybe 10 minutes max, the remainder was a commercial by the cruise director on the specialty restaurants and the shore tours.

I remember years and years ago, on one of our first cruises on RCCL, an incident that occurred during the muster drill. We were wearing our jackets, lined up on deck, by our assigned lifeboats. The cruise director is making the speech over the PA system, when all of sudden, in mid sentence he stops. There is silence for 10-15 seconds. The captian comes on and says that he has been notified that some passengers' felt that their personal conversations were more important than the emergency drill, so he was stopping the drill to give these passengers time to finish their conversations. There was total silence for about 60 seconds. Then the cruise director came on and started the whole announcement all over again. Obviously one of the muster stations was not listening and it was reported to the bridge. Our group was not the problem, but we all stood there for the remainder of the drill afraid to look right or left, hiccup or sneeze.

[erewhon]

erewhon

It was the Volendam.

Thank you for your reply.

[NattilyAttired]

We were on Eurodam last week (January 21 sailing). Muster was held at 4:15, as others have stated. No lifejackets worn, as they cause problems when going up and down stairs. Roll was taken. Those not answering were skipped until the end, then called again. Every name was called. We had been told (in writing, and in ship PA announcements) that failure to attend would result in removal. We all assembled on Promenade Deck (3) at our assigned lifeboat, not in a lounge. Roll-call was done by boat. It went quickly. Then a demonstration from crew about how to put on a lilfevest, then we were done. Those around us were quiet and orderly, but I cannot speak to all of the groups around the deck. We appreciated the seriousness in which this was all done.

[DFD1]

Natttily....That's the way I think it should be done. Glad to hear that Eurodam got the message.

Your experience was much better than ours on Eurodam, Jan 7, when no roll was called and no prior announcement about the seriousness of the muster was given.

So, changes are being made. Lives could be saved down the road.

[we're sailing away....]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?
????????????

[baggal]

I like the muster drill. Its something that happens on no other type of vacation and means to me that I'm starting my CRUISE.

That being said, on our last cruise (not on HAL), we missed the muster drill because we boarded AFTER the muster drill (don't ask - never again!). As we ran across the pier and onto the ship, (gangway went up after we boarded!) we were handed an emergency evacuation instruction sheet by a security officer. That evening, after settling down and realizing that we made the ship by minutes - we took the sheet and found the location ourselves. Even then, before the Concordia, we felt its always best not to leave your safety in the hands of someone else.

[iceleven]

I'm certainly glad to hear that they are now using the more serious muster drills. I have been very disappointed when, in the past, we have been directed to lounges or auditorium instead of our muster stations. I also would prefer our bringing and/or wearing our life vests to muster.

I know this has nothing to do with cruising but last year, while enroute to our cruise, we were in airline seats trying to listen to the safety instructions for our flight. One young man in the row in front of us continued to talk right through the instructions. The stewardess nearest him continued to do her demonstration for the rest of us but, once she was finished, she walked right up to him and reprimanded him for it. I was close enough to hear the entire conversation and I was happy to see, by the color of his face, that he was thoroughly embarrassed by it.

Safety affects all of us and one person can screw up and compromise the safety and lives of many.

[solocanadian]

Hi Cherie; they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

So pleased to read this. Last April on the Oosterdam no attendance was taken & the session very brief. Glad Hal is going back to their old way of doing muster!

[Tarpeian Rock]

Fully support this - - - and not the last of the post-Concordia changes to the cruising life.

[solocanadian]

There were 2 dogs belonging to 2 separate owners on my recent 45-night Atlantic Adventurer cruise, neither of which was a seeing-eye dog. I assume there was a medical reason for them being on board. Couldn't help but laugh to see one of the dogs posing ("being posed" is more like it) for pictures on formal nights -- that was quite a sight.

I have to say though that I found it disturbing that one of the dogs was brought to PG for the Sommelier Dinner. It didn't bark or yap but I wasn't thrilled to pay $65 and have a dog sit 2 feet away from me. :rolleyes:

You must never have dined out in France or Portugal. Have often seen dogs in restaurants in France and dined once in Madrid during a Fado show with the resident cat. Never got ill & still alive to tell the story. :D

[cccole]

You must never have dined out in France or Portugal. Have often seen dogs in restaurants in France and dined once in Madrid during a Fado show with the resident cat. Never got ill & still alive to tell the story. :D

Aruba posted this on the wrong CC thread as he indicated. Aruba is actually a very well traveled man and has indeed been to the places you assume he has not been to. He apologized for posting on the wrong CC site. Cherie

[sue117]

That being said, on our last cruise (not on HAL), we missed the muster drill because we boarded AFTER the muster drill (don't ask - never again!). As we ran across the pier and onto the ship, (gangway went up after we boarded!) we were handed an emergency evacuation instruction sheet by a security officer. That evening, after settling down and realizing that we made the ship by minutes - we took the sheet and found the location ourselves.

The last time we missed the muster we had to do a "make up" muster the next day while at sea. We had to show up with our life jacket on the promenade deck....it was kinda funny as people looked at us weird with our life jackets on wandering around and finally one passenger asked us if there was something that they needed to know! lol

[Alabaster Cruiser]

Our last cruise was on Princess and our Sail and Sign cards were scanned in the muster drill. That seemed like a more accurate way of checking attendance without having to call everyone's name.

[Typhoon1]

Rightfully so. I don't care if you've been on hundreds of cruises. You had better show up at the muster drill.

[cmdchiefthom]

Rules are rules and if one should not attend the muster drill one should not attend the cruise!

[sail7seas]

The irony is changes to Muster are being made (and seems we all agree that's a good thing) because of Costa Concordia yet they never had a Muster. Any Muster at all they might have had surely would have been better than none.

[bozemanman]

The irony is changes to Muster are being made (and seems we all agree that's a good thing) because of Costa Concordia yet they never had a Muster. Any Muster at all they might have had surely would have been better than none.



...Absolutely!!!...and would also help if there is a captain who is not "chicken of the seas":rolleyes:...and doesn't "fall" into the lifeboat before all the passengers have left the ship.

[Marianne]

I remember many years ago on our first cruise ever (Maasdam), we were reaching in the closet for our life jackets, when our room steward came in. This was totally new to us so we asked questions, if we really needed to attend Life Boat Drill. Absolutely, we were told. The room steward let us know that we would have to answer to the Captain if we didn't attend. I grabbed my camera for a photo, to prove we attended. I didn't want to answer questions to the Captain.
Marianne

[cbr663]

We were on Eurodam last week (January 21 sailing). Muster was held at 4:15, as others have stated. No lifejackets worn, as they cause problems when going up and down stairs. Roll was taken. Those not answering were skipped until the end, then called again. Every name was called. We had been told (in writing, and in ship PA announcements) that failure to attend would result in removal. We all assembled on Promenade Deck (3) at our assigned lifeboat, not in a lounge. Roll-call was done by boat. It went quickly. Then a demonstration from crew about how to put on a lilfevest, then we were done. Those around us were quiet and orderly, but I cannot speak to all of the groups around the deck. We appreciated the seriousness in which this was all done.

We were on the same cruise and I can attest to this description. There were 3 groups of guests who were absent from the muster and their names were announced on the speaker system and they were asked to report to the Main Desk immediately. The announcement was made twice and while I cannot confirm that the guests were removed, the Captain did state that anyone who failed to attend would be removed from the ship.

[dot73]

After the joke of lifeboat drills on the Noordam -- HAL better step up and get things in control. I have no problem attending them.
I was totally shocked at the lifeboat drill we had on my Noordam cruise last December. No attendance taken; people laughing, drinking, on the cell phone and text messaging; headphones on; the crew were joking around and having fun while showing how to put on the life vests; only one officer seen on the whole side of the ship and therefore no discipline. When the Concordia crash happened, I immediately thought of this muster drill and how many people would have been totally unprepared if there was an emergency. There should be no tolerance shown for people who refuse to participate in the muster drill in a serious manner. Those people would be the first ones to panic during an emergency and then blame HAL for the chaos.

[Rinderoo]

Safety drill on Disney Cruise Line taken very seriously. Attendance is taken, and silence is mandatory. If you have a station on a deck, you line up based on height, by family, with tallest in the back.

Worst safety/muster I've seen was Carnival Valor; couldn't hear a darn thing and most pax were continuing their party. Crew seemed to have just given up.

On DCL the bars actually close down for a spell before the drill. You can't really do anything except go to that safety drill.

[HALrunner]

I was on the NA Jan 8-22. There was a jazz cruise chartered the following week (Jan 22-29). The crew was all a chatter about it as they expected "only" 1500 passengers, but a rowdy group.
I did not read through all eight pages (hot topic?!?), sorry if this was already discussed.

[charleysmom]

I have a slightly off topic, but related question... We're traveling with my 90 year old mom who now has some pretty severe mobility issues. I am particularly interested in the muster drill since if (heaven forbid) anything happens she will be particularly vulnerable. How do they handle wheelchairs at the muster drill? And if anything were to happen, what is the crew's role in helping handicapped passengers?

Ann

[billie5]

of Costa Concordia yet they never had a Muster. Any Muster at all they might have had surely would have been better than none.


I don't believe this. I wonder how you know. Certainly, some passengers on Concordia said to the press that they had not had a muster drill. However, Costa cruises generally pick up passengers at most of their ports, so I do not know how one could tell if these particular passengers had been on board for more than 24 hours without a muster, as would usually be expected by SOLAS. Concluding that there had been no muster drills at all is quite another matter.

the Captain did state that anyone who failed to attend would be removed from the ship.

I do not doubt that the Captain might have said this, but, as others have said, the issue is whether passengers refuse to attend, rather than whether they failed to attend. There is a big difference, especially as there are understandable reasons why one might miss the muster. For example, hearing aids were off; Crohns had me on the toilet with little chance to leave before the end of the muster; autistic child went out of control just as muster was being called; dog ate my homework (Oops, wrong thread:)); and so forth.

[Modern_Viking]

I have a slightly off topic, but related question... We're traveling with my 90 year old mom who now has some pretty severe mobility issues. I am particularly interested in the muster drill since if (heaven forbid) anything happens she will be particularly vulnerable. How do they handle wheelchairs at the muster drill? And if anything were to happen, what is the crew's role in helping handicapped passengers?

Ann

I don't have personal experience with this, but some general advice.

First, make sure your mother's limitations are noted in her reservation.

Second, I believe you could bring this up with the shore staff at check-in and/or at the front office after boarding.

Third, in the past, I have heard an announcement during the drill not to use the elevators unless you are in a wheelchair and have gotten specific instructions from the crew on their use in an emergency. -- Some of them are powered by emergency generators and are designated for use during an emergency evacuation. These generators/elevators were tested during a port day on a HAL cruise I took in 2007, for instance. I'm not sure what additional help would be provided during an actual emergency, but that might be discussed during the on-board registration.

[Modern_Viking]

... On my most recent cruise (Dec 2011) on Celebrity, I was appalled at how the muster/safety/emergency drill was handled. ... The actual emergency drill information lasted maybe 10 minutes max, the remainder was a commercial by the cruise director on the specialty restaurants and the shore tours.
...


Using the muster drill as a means of forcing a captive audience to listen to a sales pitch is shameful to me. Talk about cheapening the experience and belittling the purpose of the drill. :mad:

[KirkNC]

Using the muster drill as a means of forcing a captive audience to listen to a sales pitch is shameful to me. Talk about cheapening the experience and belittling the purpose of the drill. :mad:

I agree, the drill should be about one thing and one thing only.

[charleysmom]

I don't have personal experience with this, but some general advice.

First, make sure your mother's limitations are noted in her reservation.

Second, I believe you could bring this up with the shore staff at check-in and/or at the front office after boarding.

Third, in the past, I have heard an announcement during the drill not to use the elevators unless you are in a wheelchair and have gotten specific instructions from the crew on their use in an emergency. -- Some of them are powered by emergency generators and are designated for use during an emergency evacuation. These generators/elevators were tested during a port day on a HAL cruise I took in 2007, for instance. I'm not sure what additional help would be provided during an actual emergency, but that might be discussed during the on-board registration.

Thanks! We're in a HC cabin so I would think that would be a flag that at least one if us had mobility issues, but maybe not... Very good to know about the special elevator! If push came to shove, my sister and I could probably carry her (I assume if there was a serious emergency that 'super strength' adrenalin would kick in :)) but I'd rather not have to test that. Sounds like our best bet may be to check with the cabin steward or concierge when we get on board. Part of me is thinking it will be easier if we're in the vicinity of our muster station before the drill time, but another part of me wants to practice getting there with her and 2000 other people. All in all, I'm so glad they are taking this more seriously.

[alabama ghost]

My husband and mother both have trouble with stairs and we just try to get to the location of the muster drill well before the time so they won't have to climb the stairs. It's never been a problem with us. Of course, we always have to wait around a while after, too, before we try to get an elevator because of the crowd.

[the2ofus]

I have been troubled by the decision to not have people wear their lifejackets at the muster drill. There have always been two or three at every drill I have attended who did not wear the lifejacket correctly and had to be instructed by the crew. Knowing how to wear it makes a difference folks! Who would prefer to drown because they did not properly adjust the straps and it slipped off as they hit the water? Better that we all wear the lifejackets to the muster drill and then watch our step as we return to our cabin.

Wearing the lifejacket also ensures that people actually know where to find the thing in their cabin and allows for an extra check to make sure it is in good order. At least once I had a lifejacket that had no whistle.

[FLACRUISER99]

I have been troubled by the decision to not have people wear their lifejackets at the muster drill. There have always been two or three at every drill I have attended who did not wear the lifejacket correctly and had to be instructed by the crew. Knowing how to wear it makes a difference folks! Who would prefer to drown because they did not properly adjust the straps and it slipped off as they hit the water? Better that we all wear the lifejackets to the muster drill and then watch our step as we return to our cabin.

Wearing the lifejacket also ensures that people actually know where to find the thing in their cabin and allows for an extra check to make sure it is in good order. At least once I had a lifejacket that had no whistle.
What is to stop you from checking your own life jacket? You can try it on and if you are unsure about how to do it you can ask your cabin steward how to put it on correctly.

[kazu]

What is to stop you from checking your own life jacket? You can try it on and if you are unsure about how to do it you can ask your cabin steward how to put it on correctly.

Actually, this is very good advice - dh and I always try ours on. The ones on the Prinsendam were very easy with the snaps instead of all those silly strings.:)

[sail7seas]

Actually, this is very good advice - dh and I always try ours on. The ones on the Prinsendam were very easy with the snaps instead of all those silly strings.:)


I agree. Everyone should take a moment to check their life jackets in their cabin.


The life jackets on Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam don't have the long straps but are the easy to insert buckles we're so used to using on so many things.

[Sophiebaby]

I was on the 45-day Maasdam cruise with the two dogs, both of which were service dogs...one to pick up on epileptic seizures and one to deal with panic attacks. Really amazing.

[SJSULIBRARIAN]

While trying the life jackets on in the cabin, you can watch the demonstration on how to put them on, on the TV. I think it is easier to do that then watching the crew on deck - some of us shorter folks who end up in the second line, can't always see the demo.

[iriemon]

Thanks! We're in a HC cabin so I would think that would be a flag that at least one if us had mobility issues, but maybe not... Very good to know about the special elevator! If push came to shove, my sister and I could probably carry her (I assume if there was a serious emergency that 'super strength' adrenalin would kick in :)) but I'd rather not have to test that. Sounds like our best bet may be to check with the cabin steward or concierge when we get on board. Part of me is thinking it will be easier if we're in the vicinity of our muster station before the drill time, but another part of me wants to practice getting there with her and 2000 other people. All in all, I'm so glad they are taking this more seriously.

Since my wife is handicapped and one of the couples that travels with us a lot is also handicapped I asked the last couple of times I was on the ship and got the same answer so assuming it is true. For handcapped people in an emergency the crew has "carriers" similar to cots without legs. They put them on that and carry them to the lifeboat. This is the only safe way as there may be an electrical fire and they can't use the elevator and wheel chairs power or regular can not go down the stairs. They did say even though we were in a HC cabin to make sure to go to the purser and have it noted on the file. During the drill they have always let us use the elevators to get to where we needed to be. Hope this helps.

[SplitRaindrop]

I was on the Smooth Jazz Cruise (Week 2) that was on the Westerdam the 22nd-29th. We were told that attendance was mandatory and that we could be removed from the ship for not participating. While attendance was not taken I am wondering if someone did a room sweep. Shortly after the drill some names were read over the PA but I am not sure if that was related or not.

[tbrein]

CC has now posted this in the "News" Section. Here's the link:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4734

Terri

[innlady1]

Interesting! The OP is quoted as well as our "Himself".

[billie5]

Whether or not roll call is being taken during a muster drill may not be as transparent as some individuals may think. We have been on cruises where the crew appear to take roll call by observing the numbers on the life jackets and checking these off on some sort of list. I could well imagine that many passengers might not realize a roll call is being taken.

[sail7seas]

Yes, that used to be the case on HAL but we no longer bring our life jackets to Muster drill.

[PROCRUISE]

Glad to see this, too bad it took a tragic loss of life for muster drills to be taken seriously. Cruised with Celebrity 1/14-28/12, and while we simply met in designated areas, attendance was taken as each individual entered.

[scooterpopsnana]

Here is the scoop from CC:

http://www.cruisecritic.com/news/news.cfm?ID=4734 (http://www.facebook.com/l.php?u=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.cruisecritic.com%2Fnews%2 Fnews.cfm%3FID%3D4734&h=VAQFilJEJAQHRbxypFPpp4LHlNegrzPEPdqG7fR3kqdq80Q)

[rwams]

I am glad that they are changing the lifeboat drill, I would hope that they will have the speaker working when they are giving the instructions, last May on the Westerdam the speaker at the Lifeboat station was not working and you could hear nothing that was being said. And that the lifeboat crew and officer should have had everyone be quiet and listen. There is plenty of time to party after the drill.

[whogo]

I always enjoy the roll calls, listening to a crew member who speaks English as a second or third language trying to pronounce passenger's names. It's fun. Try to recognize your own name as it is announced and then try to guess the spelling of your lifeboat mates as their names are called out.

[Typhoon1]

All of ours have happened while in port and before sail-away.

IIRC, the muster time has been 4:30 PM. Sail away at 5:00 PM.

[josie724]

There was also "talk" about this on FB, people were discussing passengers being removed from The Westerdam and Eurodam. A response from HAL said no passengers were removed from The Eurodam, but never confirmed or denied the removal of passengers from The Westerdam

[the2ofus]

As other posters have suggested, there is nothing to stop a person from trying on their lifejacket in their stateroom. The problem is that some will not bother. There is also the issue that some lifejackets might not fit and an abandon ship announcement is a poor time to find that out.

When HAL pax were coming to the life boat station wearing their jackets, the crew were checking as you arrived to see if the straps were crossed, laced and tied correctly and would stop and instruct you if yours were not. I have even observed people with the jackets inside out which meant the reflective areas and the water-activated light would not have been visible in a night search.

Roll call has always been a combination of visual checking of numbers on the lifejackets and calling off the names of those who may have passed by in a group and their numbers missed.

[GeriatricNurse]

Actually, this is very good advice - dh and I always try ours on. The ones on the Prinsendam were very easy with the snaps instead of all those silly strings.:)

I agree. Everyone should take a moment to check their life jackets in their cabin.


The life jackets on Eurodam and Nieuw Amsterdam don't have the long straps but are the easy to insert buckles we're so used to using on so many things.


I believe that all the (old) lifejackets with the outdated straps have been replaced with (new) lifejacets with modern snaps! ;)

[stillmeadows]

I did that cruise on that ship over Christmas. They did this guy a favor by kicking him off.

[rplc882]

Great, finally enforcing a rule. If they hadnt this one person would be the first to cry foul if something tragic happened. Now only if they would enforce ALL their other rules cruising would be a lot nicer. And all our HAL LB drills have been at pierside before departure.

[stormy65]

I just read a statement from Holland that they did remove a passenger from the Westerdam for not attending muster drill. They say they are also doing roll call again.

[whogo]

I just read a statement from Holland that they did remove a passenger from the Westerdam for not attending muster drill. They say they are also doing roll call again.
Here it is from USA Today:
http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2012/02/cruise-ship-muster-drill-holland-america/618481/1

[worldspan]

I know I will be in the minority on this but in my book, removing the passenger was overkill on Holland America's part.

Yes, surely this passenger who missed the drill should have been admonished by the ships officers. That said, throw him off the ship ? Suddenly the Carnival brands are going to try and make up for getting caught with their pants down big time over what occured on Costa Concordia. Not because their was a crazy captain but rather because all of the systems for a speedy and orderly evacation that were to have been in place failed royally! And now they are taking it out on a few stupid passengers so they can appear "dilligent to the media and public at large?"

Carnival, clean up your act first before taking it out on the passengers!

Worldspan
131 cruises strong

[CruiserBruce]

I know I will be in the minority on this but in my book, removing the passenger was overkill on Holland America's part.

Yes, surely this passenger who missed the drill should have been admonished by the ships officers. That said, throw him off the ship ? Suddenly the Carnival brands are going to try and make up for getting caught with their pants down big time over what occured on Costa Concordia. Not because their was a crazy captain but rather because all of the systems for a speedy and orderly evacation that were to have been in place failed royally! And now they are taking it out on a few stupid passengers so they can appear "dilligent to the media and public at large?"

Carnival, clean up your act first before taking it out on the passengers!

Worldspan
131 cruises strong

Are all the facts in? Was the passenger(s) uncooperative?

[lawyerrose]

IIRC, the muster time has been 4:30 PM. Sail away at 5:00 PM.


What does IIRC mean, please???

[sapper1]

I know I will be in the minority on this but in my book, removing the passenger was overkill on Holland America's part.

Yes, surely this passenger who missed the drill should have been admonished by the ships officers. That said, throw him off the ship ? Suddenly the Carnival brands are going to try and make up for getting caught with their pants down big time over what occured on Costa Concordia. Not because their was a crazy captain but rather because all of the systems for a speedy and orderly evacation that were to have been in place failed royally! And now they are taking it out on a few stupid passengers so they can appear "dilligent to the media and public at large?"

Carnival, clean up your act first before taking it out on the passengers!

Worldspan
131 cruises strong
This was a part of cleaning up their act. Any passenger who does not comply with safety regulations is a passenger I do not want to be sailing on the same ship with. I have zero sympathy in this case.

[Boytjie]

What does IIRC mean, please???

Sticky on HAL boards: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1296222

[Amuse Bouche]

I know I will be in the minority on this but in my book, removing the passenger was overkill on Holland America's part.

Worldspan
131 cruises strong

There had to be a reason for this. Unless we know exactly why, I don't think anyone should jump to conclusions that there wasn't extenuating circumstances.

Maybe now that the story made, what was it, USA Today? Anyway, national news...Holland America will divulge why.

Personally, regardless of the reason why, I'm happy that Holland America is willing to bear scrutiny and do the right thing, instead of washing a single incident under the rug (letting a passenger who makes serious violations stay and looking the other way) and counting the odds that no one noticed someone got away with something they shouldn't have for the sake of business and dollars.

I REALLY doubt that they would do this if it weren't serious.

[sail7seas]

What does IIRC mean, please???

It means "If I recall correctly".

[Mar56]

they, the sweep teams, look for any passengers onboard the vessel not physically located on boat deck where the drill is taking place. They "sweep" all passenger area's while the room stewards check the interior of their assigned cabins. When/if pax are located, they are directed to the boat deck and the drill. If they refuse, a meeting takes place with the chief officer at the front office, in which they are once again directed to take part in the drill. If they still refuse, they are directed to pack/get their bags and disembark

Based on the above info provided to us, (underlining mine) although Copper is too much of a professional to tell us exactly what happened, although I'm sure he knows, it seems that the passenger refused to attend the drill, it looks like it would have been twice (once when initially asked and then again when chief officer told him to attend) and thus was told to go. This isn't overkill. This is letting all of us know who is ultimately in charge of the ship, and it isn't us. I'm good with that.

Good job HAL.

[lawyerrose]

It means "If I recall correctly".



Thanks Sail!:)

[lawyerrose]

Sticky on HAL boards: http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=1296222

Did you not know the answer, or just couldn't be bothered, Peter? Just wondered.

[Boytjie]

Did you not know the answer, or just couldn't be bothered, Peter? Just wondered.

And here I thought I was being helpful.. providing a link to all the common abbreviations!

If I couldn't be bothered I would not have responded at all :D

[lawyerrose]

And here I thought I was being helpful.. providing a link to all the common abbreviations!

If I couldn't be bothered I would not have responded at all :D


Oh, well, in THAT case . . . :o

[Amuse Bouche]

Good idea to copy the link. If you had cut and pasted the list into this thread, it may have been considered plagerism! :p

That's my first time seeing that list.

When my daughter was 10, 16 yrs ago, I found a list that looked a lot like that. It was pager codes. I copied it so I could decipher her coded messages. :D

[G.M.T.]

The people who were removed from the ship, were they tendered ashore?

[Cuizer2]

I know I will be in the minority on this but in my book, removing the passenger was overkill on Holland America's part.

Yes, surely this passenger who missed the drill should have been admonished by the ships officers. That said, throw him off the ship ? Suddenly the Carnival brands are going to try and make up for getting caught with their pants down big time over what occured on Costa Concordia. Not because their was a crazy captain but rather because all of the systems for a speedy and orderly evacation that were to have been in place failed royally! And now they are taking it out on a few stupid passengers so they can appear "dilligent to the media and public at large?"

Carnival, clean up your act first before taking it out on the passengers!

Worldspan
131 cruises strong

I'm going to disagree with you. This is a game some passengers play and they end up being a danger not only to themselves but also others. There is NO reason not to attend. Refusal to attend does, in my opinion, justify removal from the ship.

Blame whoever you want, but the fact is all the passenger had to do was attend a 15-20 safety drill and (s)he would have been on the ship when it left Fort Lauderdale.

[iceleven]

I wonder if it would be as effective if those who intentionally miss muster are made (all week) to wear a "bib" that says, "I missed muster."

[Boytjie]

The people who were removed from the ship, were they tendered ashore?

I think they were still docked; they waited to disembark the person before leaving.

[sapper1]

And here I thought I was being helpful.. providing a link to all the common abbreviations!

If I couldn't be bothered I would not have responded at all :D
That's gratitude for you eh?:)

[Oviedo32765]

And here I thought I was being helpful.. providing a link to all the common abbreviations!

If I couldn't be bothered I would not have responded at all :D

No good deed goes unpunished!

[3rdGenCunarder]

I wonder if it would be as effective if those who intentionally miss muster are made (all week) to wear a "bib" that says, "I missed muster."

Not a bib, a special life vest that says "I skipped muster."

[Amuse Bouche]

I wonder if it would be as effective if those who intentionally miss muster are made (all week) to wear a "bib" that says, "I missed muster."

Unfortunately, there are some people who spend their entire life as infantile egomaniacs in need of attention. There undoubtedly would be more than a few who would test it to see, have fun taking photos all over the ship wearing it, and become a problem when no one cares anymore and they take it off.

[Amuse Bouche]

I appreciate the policy of being able to take them off the ship and this is why....
The cruise line is who has to pay for their insurance. They accept the liability of taking 4000 souls onto the ocean trusting they won't do something stupid or irresponsible and hurt/kill themselves or anyone else. Everytime they have an accident, there are repercussions, such as higher premiums, PR damage control, legal fees to defend themselves, settlements for injured or traumatized passengers...etc.
As everyone knows, those added costs are passed down to us. Either our rates will go up, or or perks and comforts will be eliminated. Or Both.

Anyone who cares only about themselves and not the cruiseline or their fellow passengers and misses muster, or doesn't follow all the rules made to ensure that safety can be controlled should be tossed off immediately.

Sorry if anyone thinks that's harsh, but really??? I want to cruise until I'm dead. As often as possible. My name isn't Bill Gates. $1000 to $2000 x 2 is about all I can afford to book.

[Feelin' Nauti']

I would be totally upset if someone got a hold of my precious gems.


http://news.yahoo.com/shipwreck-italy-treasure-now-beckons-151920096.html

[Boytjie]

Not a bib, a special life vest that says "I skipped muster."

No, I think a vest that says "I leave the ship just before the captain does".

[G.M.T.]

I think they were still docked; they waited to disembark the person before leaving.

It was a tonque in cheek question.:D

Ron

[Boytjie]

It was a tonque in cheek question.:D

Ron

Without smileys and grins on here you never know. :) Interesting things are asked at times. ;)

[luxurysailer]

Our cabin steward told us we could stay in the cabin.
But we didn't and went to the drill.

I wouldn't think it is a good idea to listen to cabin stewards or other low ranking crew countermand ships rules or orders.

Perhaps they've decided to enforce muster drill attendance, because people who refuse to attend could well be a danger to others in the event of a real emergency. Being stupid enough not to do something for your own benefit is bad enough, but if it might endanger others it shouldn't be tolerated.

Incidentally, I'm reasonably certain that roll was taken at every lifeboat drill on every HAL cruise we've ever taken. But due to all the talking I don't see how they've ever gotten an accurate roll call. Perhaps they're now going to enforce quiet during the roll call.

[Boytjie]

Our cabin steward told us we could stay in the cabin.
But we didn't and went to the drill.

I may have reported the cabin steward for that. :eek:

[Susie51]

I have been to several muster drills where the cruise staff reads the cabin number on the life vest as pax arrive and checks it off of the list. Then only those #s that aren't checked off are called.

[mamaofami]

Since there is no longer the requirement to wear life vests, attendance can't be taken that way. Most of the drills I've been on had a crew member calling off the cabin numbers and people responding to the numbers as they were called. Latecomers were walking up to the person with the attendance chart and giving their numbers.

ON the last muster I attended, which was the day the Concordia sank, no one took any attendance at all.

[3rdGenCunarder]

Unfortunately, there are some people who spend their entire life as infantile egomaniacs in need of attention. There undoubtedly would be more than a few who would test it to see, have fun taking photos all over the ship wearing it, and become a problem when no one cares anymore and they take it off.

You're right. I sometimes forget that there is no such thing as shame any more. I was thinking mainly of the discomfort factor, but if wearinghte "naughty" lifevest becomes a source of entertainment, it ceases to be a punishment.

[Cuizer2]

I wouldn't think it is a good idea to listen to cabin stewards or other low ranking crew countermand ships rules or orders.

Perhaps they've decided to enforce muster drill attendance, because people who refuse to attend could well be a danger to others in the event of a real emergency. Being stupid enough not to do something for your own benefit is bad enough, but if it might endanger others it shouldn't be tolerated.

Incidentally, I'm reasonably certain that roll was taken at every lifeboat drill on every HAL cruise we've ever taken. But due to all the talking I don't see how they've ever gotten an accurate roll call. Perhaps they're now going to enforce quiet during the roll call.

Roll can be taken by observing the cabin number on the lift jacket as the person walks toward the muster station. I've seen that done several times.

[flashdog_1]

I hope that we hear/learn that other cruise lines are also implementing a higher standard for muster drills. I've been sailing NCL since 2008 maybe and they check to see that all members of your cabin are present. I was impressed at that (one roommate was very short and could not be seen between my daughter and me who are tall!)

When my kids were young and we'd go to resort towns, I'd have them practice saying the name of the resort/time share, room number along with their name so if accidentally in trouble, a police man could get them home.

It is the same for cruises. I always look behind the door and announce the letters for the muster drill. Last time my DD said, "Mom, it's right on the key card." Oh.... ha

On my one HAL cruise, our entire roll call (and it was large) for cruise critic was under 50 except me. Most were in their 30s and 40s. This myth about only old people traveling on HAL just has to be curtailed. Yes, there are very old people on board, some of whom can outdance me!

[Cuizer2]

On my one HAL cruise, our entire roll call (and it was large) for cruise critic was under 50 except me. Most were in their 30s and 40s. This myth about only old people traveling on HAL just has to be curtailed. Yes, there are very old people on board, some of whom can outdance me!

The problem with the references to "old" is, nobody has yet defined "old". Back when I was forty (just before Ronald Reagan was born) I was doing some volunteer work at an elementary school. One of the kids asked how old I was and I said 40 (it might have been 41). The response was, "How come you are so old?" I replied, how old are you. I believe the answer was eleven. I then said, "How come you are so young?"

The point is, old is a comparison number. To someone who is five, 25 is old. So before everyone starts complaining about the "old" remark, everyone needs to find out what was meant by "old". For all you know, the person could have been referring to anyone over thirty. :eek: Personally, I think any one over eleven is old.

[fleckle]

The problem with the references to "old" is, nobody has yet defined "old"........I respectfully disagree. The definition of "old" remains consistent and has always been very clear.

An "old" person always has been and always will be someone who is at least 15 years older than I am. ;)

[gentlemancruiser]

It was a Jazz Cruise on HAL, and I believe it must have left this weekend from Fort Lauderdale as the discussion was today. I cannot "prove" it, but the information came from a Broward County Sheriff Deputy...don't know why they would make up the story. I do not know how many were involved, but was told more than one, with at least one of them from a jazz band booked onboard.

It is possible that the removal came on the heels of a bad attitude when they were finally located, that I cannot say.

Not trying to spread rumors, just had info that I thought was relevant, for the safety of all of us!

For those of you who still have doubts about the OP story - It was also reported in the USA Today 2 days ago!!!!!
http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2012/02/cruise-ship-muster-drill-holland-america/618481/1

[emailingann]

I just got off the Eurodam this morning and they did disembark a couple last Saturday for failing to show to muster. They give you plenty of warnings and were paging this couple over and over. They do a manual roll call. it is pretty stupid and arrogant to miss it. I guess it is a lesson learned. No one's fault but their own. I was extremely happy with the crew......no captain drinking in the bar!

Ann

[Cuizer2]

For those of you who still have doubts about the OP story - It was also reported in the USA Today 2 days ago!!!!!
http://travel.usatoday.com/cruises/post/2012/02/cruise-ship-muster-drill-holland-america/618481/1

The fact that a newspaper said it doesn't make it true. That HAL confirmed it does.

[josie724]

The fact that a newspaper said it doesn't make it true. That HAL confirmed it does.

In a short statement sent to USA TODAY, Holland America offered few details on the nature of the non-compliance, other than citing a "failure to participate." The unnamed passenger was put off the line's 1,916-passenger Westerdam on Sunday in Ft. Lauderdale just before the ship set sail for the Caribbean.

[blubionda]

I confess - I hate the muster drill; I'm so excited about finally being on the ship/my first day of vacation, that the last thing I want to do is put on a smelly vest (back when we had to), fight the crowds and then stand around crammed together while we wait for folks that couldn't get to the drill on time.

HOWEVER, I always go without complaint, without food/drink and without talking while the announcements are made/roll is taken.

WHY - because it's important and it's the rules.

Mom always taught me that if you can't afford to tip, you shouldn't eat out; similarly, if you are of able body and can't be bothered to do the safety drill/be respectful during the drill, then you shouldn't cruise.

[Northshorecruisers]

We have always experienced muster prior to sailing. Maybe because it's all I've ever known, but to me this is a cruising tradition. I don't mind doing it at all and I love the feeling of knowing the next step is to set sail.
I much prefer being on deck at my lifeboat station and someone checking to be sure I've got my life jacket on correctly. Carrying my life jacket to a crowded area no where near a life boat and trying to listen to a crewmember explain what I should do in an emergency (if I can hear with people around chatting that we'll never need to use this) - just isn't right.

[localady]

On our Oosterdam Mexican Riviera cruise last week, roll call was taken at Muster and it was announced that anyone NOT participating would be disembarked before we sailed. At least on our cruise, I believe everyone complied.

I applaud the new enforcement decision....

[sail7seas]

Welcome Back, Sher.

Hope you had a great cruise.

Were you instructed to bring life jackets or to not bring them?

[boojimom]

My DH and I were on the Westerdam for The Jazz Cruise (check my previous posts to confirm) and the passenger who was tossed was in the cabin next to ours. During the muster drill (which took place BEFORE the ship even budged from the dock) the crew called us out by cabin number at our lifeboat station and asked for all in the party to respond with "present". The cabin 7005 was called several times, and then paged shipwide several times with a warning that they would not be allowed to sail if they didn't respond. When my DH and I returned to our cabin (7009) to get ready for the Sail-Away Party thrown by the charter company, we saw several ship's pursers standing around and going into the next cabin. Later we were told that the guy was removed from the ship and was one of the sound technicians hired by the charter company to set up the system for the Vista Lounge. He had been on the ship for the previous 2 weeks (when the ship is fully chartered by the same company for back-to-back "Smooth Jazz" sailings) and thought that exempted him from the drill this time around, especially since he was busy setting up the sound system for the opening performances. Obviously, he was very wrong. The whole incident was the talk of the cruise.
BTW: On our previous Jazz Cruise on the Westerdam, the crew also did a "crew only" muster drill the second day of sailing. This time around they also did a couple of crew drills involving actually lowering and raising a few lifeboats and one afternoon they asked the passengers to stop using the elevators for 5 minutes while they tested the emergency backup generators.

[GeriatricNurse]

My DH and I were on the Westerdam for The Jazz Cruise (check my previous posts to confirm) and the passenger who was tossed was in the cabin next to ours. During the muster drill (which took place BEFORE the ship even budged from the dock) the crew called us out by cabin number at our lifeboat station and asked for all in the party to respond with "present". The cabin 7005 was called several times, and then paged shipwide several times with a warning that they would not be allowed to sail if they didn't respond. When my DH and I returned to our cabin (7009) to get ready for the Sail-Away Party thrown by the charter company, we saw several ship's pursers standing around and going into the next cabin. Later we were told that the guy was removed from the ship and was one of the sound technicians hired by the charter company to set up the system for the Vista Lounge. He had been on the ship for the previous 2 weeks (when the ship is fully chartered by the same company for back-to-back "Smooth Jazz" sailings) and thought that exempted him from the drill this time around, especially since he was busy setting up the sound system for the opening performances. Obviously, he was very wrong. The whole incident was the talk of the cruise.
BTW: On our previous Jazz Cruise on the Westerdam, the crew also did a "crew only" muster drill the second day of sailing. This time around they also did a couple of crew drills involving actually lowering and raising a few lifeboats and one afternoon they asked the passengers to stop using the elevators for 5 minutes while they tested the emergency backup generators.

This procedure is (and has been) done (freqently) on all HAL cruises! ;)

[CruiserTarheel]

On our Oosterdam Mexican Riviera cruise last week, roll call was taken at Muster and it was announced that anyone NOT participating would be disembarked before we sailed. At least on our cruise, I believe everyone complied.

I applaud the new enforcement decision....

We had the same announcement on the Noordam 1/23. After the drill, Captain Hans thanked everyone and said we'd had 100% attendance. We weren't asked to wear our life jackets.

[McDaddy]

DW and I were also on the Westerdam last week and very coincidentally met Boojimom and spent quite a bit of time with her and her DH:D. One of the comments I heard at our muster drill was from a passenger who was doing Back to Back cruises (gulp...B2B charters! $$$$!) She said "Wow, they didn't do this last week (take attendance), I guess they really mean business!"
Muster drill was much longer than 15 minutes, it was more like 30-40, as they repeatedly paged people both by cabin number and then name. They were also serious about evryone paying attention as there were several announcements of "Silence on deck" from the Captian, and officers on deck closely monitoring the progress of the drill. They were very serious about it.

[kazu]

DW and I were also on the Westerdam last week and very coincidentally met Boojimom and spent quite a bit of time with her and her DH:D. One of the comments I heard at our muster drill was from a passenger who was doing Back to Back cruises (gulp...B2B charters! $$$$!) She said "Wow, they didn't do this last week (take attendance), I guess they really mean business!"
Muster drill was much longer than 15 minutes, it was more like 30-40, as they repeatedly paged people both by cabin number and then name. They were also serious about evryone paying attention as there were several announcements of "Silence on deck" from the Captian, and officers on deck closely monitoring the progress of the drill. They were very serious about it.

I confess I don't like these drills - and your post is exactly why:eek: As we go to our station as instructed we wait and wait and wait for some to show up that think that they can take their sweet time.

Nothing wrong with a complete muster drill and happy to hear it - but it really irks me that some think they can come as they wish while those who do as instructed wait :eek:

As to the person kicked off - no sympathy - on a b2b -it the rules were changed I am sure they were advised or it was in the Explorer. If they call your room number several times - is the light on, is anyone home:rolleyes:

[ithaca gal]

The problem with the references to "old" is, nobody has yet defined "old". Back when I was forty (just before Ronald Reagan was born) I was doing some volunteer work at an elementary school. One of the kids asked how old I was and I said 40 (it might have been 41). The response was, "How come you are so old?" I replied, how old are you. I believe the answer was eleven. I then said, "How come you are so young?"

The point is, old is a comparison number. To someone who is five, 25 is old. So before everyone starts complaining about the "old" remark, everyone needs to find out what was meant by "old". For all you know, the person could have been referring to anyone over thirty. :eek: Personally, I think any one over eleven is old.

When we first moved to South Carolina, we went to a nearby movie theater. Since different establishments have different age levels for discounted senior citizen tickets, I asked, "What is the age for senior citizen tickets?". The teen ticket seller looked so puzzled ...... finally she said, "Um .... I don't know ..... just OLD!"

[fann1sh]

Disclaimer: I haven't read all the pages of this thread :o.

Just posting to confirm: on Eurodam 28 Jan sailing, announcements were repeatedly made before muster drill.

All were warned that non attendance =immediate debarkation before sailing. No appeal. Anyone with valid reasons for being unable to comply were urged to call in advance and obtain an official "bye" and tutoring. Saw several people speak directly to muster officials, and some were allowed to sit in special locations instead of standing.

Muster took about 15 minutes. A few latecomers (no idea if they were found and "persuaded") but 100% compliance was confirmed before dismissal.

[Raring to go]

Just back from the Zaandam, which sailed from Hong Kong on January 23. It was a strange situation, in that we boarded on the 22nd, but did not sail until the 23rd. Sailing time was 11:00 P.M. The Chinese New Year's parade was that night, and a number of passengers had tickets to see the parade. When the Explorer came out that day, it announced an all-aboard time at 7 P.M. and the parade didn't even start until 8. I went down to the front desk as soon as I saw the announcement, and asked what we would do about about the parade tickets. They told me not to worry about it, but did tell me that we would miss the muster and would have to make it up on the first day. Eventually the all aboard time was backed up to around 5:00, but the front desk told those of us attending the parade that we neeed to be on board no later than 10:00. When we got to our room that night, there was a letter on the bed asking that we attend a make up muster the next morning. I would estimate that there were over 200 cabin numbers called when they checked roll that morning!

[nana51]

Last week the Hotel Manager on the Oosterdam told our cruise critic group that if people fail to go to Muster drill they will be not allowed to sail. They will also go back to taking roll. They mean business in light of the Concordia .The roll call on Muster was suppose to start this past Saturday.

I was on the same cruise. It was pretty annoying that they kept us all waiting for the errant passengers, but they were threatened with removal unless they showed. Fine with me.

[5waldos]

It was a Jazz Cruise on HAL, and I believe it must have left this weekend from Fort Lauderdale as the discussion was today. I cannot "prove" it, but the information came from a Broward County Sheriff Deputy...don't know why they would make up the story. I do not know how many were involved, but was told more than one, with at least one of them from a jazz band booked onboard.

It is possible that the removal came on the heels of a bad attitude when they were finally located, that I cannot say.

Not trying to spread rumors, just had info that I thought was relevant, for the safety of all of us!

I am not questioning it but do wonder why would the Sheriff's Deputy be involved? Even a bad additude shouldn't require the Sheriff.

[Randyk47]

I am not questioning it but do wonder why would the Sheriff's Deputy be involved? Even a bad additude shouldn't require the Sheriff.

Maybe the passenger throw a fit and the police had to be called. Maybe the passenger called the police about being removed wanting them to intercede on his behalf. Maybe the deputy was working as part time security. Maybe he heard the story from a friend of his who heard it from his girlfriend. :rolleyes:;) No telling how he knew or found out about the situation.

[Watson's aunt]

that person who refused to go to the drill could cost someone's kife because he did not know what to do.

when I was on Amsterdam last June we were docked I forget what port they had a fire drill I could see it from port. All crew reporting to bow . So I am happy with Hal. If you can't follow the rules sorry you ddon' get to play the game

[wander]

I would suspect that the local police were called to be sure the person left the dock area. I have been on several ships were someone was put off the ship and each time either the local police or the Coast Guard escorted the passenger(s) away from the ship and/or port area. It is probably a combination of a safety move and a jurisdictional move.

[Barb Nahoumi]

I think that cruiselines should reinstate the rule which forces pax to bring their lifejackets to the muster drill.

They would practice putting it on correctly.

[sail7seas]

I think that cruiselines should reinstate the rule which forces pax to bring their lifejackets to the muster drill.

They would practice putting it on correctly.


All guests certainly can practice putting on their lifejacket in their cabin. If they have any question about it, their steward will absolutely be very happy to help them. Just ask.

[vtbobby]

Maybe the passenger throw a fit and the police had to be called. Maybe the passenger called the police about being removed wanting them to intercede on his behalf. Maybe the deputy was working as part time security. Maybe he heard the story from a friend of his who heard it from his girlfriend. :rolleyes:;) No telling how he knew or found out about the situation.

When we went to deck 10 for the sailaway, after muster, there were three pollice cars, (Sheriff?) with flashing blue lights on the pier. They drove away before we sailed...and we assumed that the 'removed' party from 7005 was in one of them.

Friends watching on the port webcam heard a radio transmission between the ship & port, reporting that Westerdam would delay departure while a "party from stateroom 7005" was removed from the ship.

I believe that it was handled firmly and professionally by the Captain given the climate following the Costa tragedy. That said though...we were on QM2 on a three part cruise (6/2010), stopping twice in Southampton, and were required to attend the three lifeboat drills only once in NYC. The person removed from Westerdam was working aboard for three weeks of Jazz Cruises, and had already attended the Drills twice. In this case, the punishment didn't seem to match the infraction...unless he was stupid enough to give the wrong Officer a 'ration...'

[mjl1960]

WHAT? They didn't have to walk the plank? I personally think the muster is a good idea, but not sure how effective it would be in an emergency. When people panic, the forget everything they have been told before to get them where they need to be. However, if you ask a kid that did it, they could probably tell you in detail. They pay more attention than adults do.

Another way to look at people that refuse to do muster is that they will leave more room for the people that do know what to do....survival of the fittest, in the case the "weak" that didn't do the muster drill will drown. Just sayin'....

[mistshar]

I am somewhat disabled and it is difficult for me to go out and stand in the sun for the muster drill. So one time my husband went outside for it and I went into one of the theaters that was just inside and waited there. I could hear everything that was said. Some of the crew kept coming through and saying that the muster drill was going on outside but they didn't give me time to explain why I was there. After it was over my husband said he couldn't hear a thing they said. I said that I heard everything. We don't try to avoid the muster drill because we want to know where we need to go and how to get there.

Another time we went down and asked everyone we could find where the people who were not able to participate in the drill needed to go and no one knew. Finally someone told me to go up to my cabin and stay there. Then my husband could tell me and I could watch it on TV. So that is what I did. They always say they have a place for the people with disabilities to go for the drill but then no one knows where it is. I have never been able to find anyone who knows where to find it.

[LMM1801]

I've done something like 40 HAL cruises. The only time I can recall a muster after sailing was the Alaska cruise out of Seward when it was held the next morning. Since sailing was so late, and passengers were arriving right up until then, it couldn't be held late afternoon as is customary.

Now, as to the reason those passengers were let off, I suspect missing muster was part of the story, but only part.

I heard that the muster drill must be held before leaving port on US soil, and is a Coast Guard rule .. not a HAL ship rule. Maybe it does not apply to Alaska and Hawaii and only the contiguous 48 states? Not sure. Anybody know?

[LMM1801]

I think that cruiselines should reinstate the rule which forces pax to bring their lifejackets to the muster drill.

They would practice putting it on correctly.

I agree with you, Barb. It is a hassle and all but forces us to drag them out of the closet and take them with us. I always need the crew to explain to me one more time how to put it on. I bet the poor French woman who lost her husband on the Concordia wishes that they had a drill before that required life jackets. Maybe then the couple would have had 2 instead of 1 between them.

[luckysadie]

Here is a link to the new muster drill policy adopted by CLIA:

\http://www.cruising.org/regulatory/n...r-drill-policy

I take it to mean that all muster drills must take place before the ship leaves port.

[RuthC]

I heard that the muster drill must be held before leaving port on US soil, and is a Coast Guard rule .. not a HAL ship rule. Maybe it does not apply to Alaska and Hawaii and only the contiguous 48 states? Not sure. Anybody know?
Or, maybe the rule you're referring to, if there is such a rule, went into effect at some time after the cruise.

In any case, the point was to disagree with the poster who said that muster was always after sailing. And now there is agreement from the various cruiselines that drill will always be before sailing, regardless of embarkation port.

[mariner]

The rule is within 24 hours after sailing. It's been that way since April 14, 1912.

[sail7seas]

I believe it was just changed since Concordia.

Now it is before sailing........

(Perhaps there are a few rare exceptions ??)

[mariner]

The cruise lines have an agreement. They needed to do something for PR. SOLAS is still within 24 hours.

[erewhon]

I heard that the muster drill must be held before leaving port on US soil, and is a Coast Guard rule .. not a HAL ship rule. Maybe it does not apply to Alaska and Hawaii and only the contiguous 48 states? Not sure. Anybody know?

The passenger safety drill was held 4.15 pm, the 5th December on board the Volendam, prior to sailing from Sydney Australia.

[IRL_Joanie]

The rule is within 24 hours after sailing. It's been that way since April 14, 1912.

It was changed effective immediately earlier this week. Mandatory Muster drill BEFORE the ship l;eaves Port.

Joanie

[sail7seas]

It was changed effective immediately earlier this week. Mandatory Muster drill BEFORE the ship l;eaves Port.

Joanie


Yes, Joanie, I think that is so but by order of which authority?

[RuthC]

It was changed effective immediately earlier this week. Mandatory Muster drill BEFORE the ship l;eaves Port.

Joanie
That was a voluntary agreement made by the members of CLIA. Cooperation cannot be enforced.
The SOLAS regualtions continue to be within 24 hours of sailing.
The SOLAS regs don't prevent a governmental authority from enforcing stricter regs within their jurisdiction.

[Stakeout]

On all the Hal cruises I've been on, the muster drill occurs after we left port and are out to sea.
How do they remove passengers in the middle of the ocean?

have been on 47 HAL cruises and have NEVER been to a lifeboat drill after sailing.. always still tied up to the dock usually at 415pm on a 5pm sailing

[sail7seas]

That was a voluntary agreement made by the members of CLIA. Cooperation cannot be enforced.
The SOLAS regualtions continue to be within 24 hours of sailing.
The SOLAS regs don't prevent a governmental authority from enforcing stricter regs within their jurisdiction.


Thanks, Ruth.

[Cuizer2]

I heard that the muster drill must be held before leaving port on US soil, and is a Coast Guard rule .. not a HAL ship rule. Maybe it does not apply to Alaska and Hawaii and only the contiguous 48 states? Not sure. Anybody know?

The muster drill must be held within 24 hours of first departure.

[Watson's aunt]

my last cruise all the "old" people were there it was they young people we had to wait for