I am frustrated by a NEW HAL SURVEY

[arzz]

I was just sent a survey to complete by e-mail for HAL. The questions basically centered around our view of HAL before and after 2003, and a series of questions about various pre-paid packages that HAL could offer. I was frustrated at the end because there was no way to say -- "Yes, I want the amenities described but many of them are free now and I do not want to have to pay for them in the future" -- HAL are you reading this?

Basically, they asked about several types of new programs that HAL could offer: such as would we be interested in on board lectures on various topics, an affiliation with a University, National Geographic, Lonely Planet offerred on board? They asked if we would be interested in volunteer work as part of our cruise such as helping Habitat for Humanity to build a home in the Caribbean and other similar themes. Then they asked about our interest in pre-paid (possibly unlimited) packages for things like soft drinks, espresso, wine, internet, spa services (OK with me so far) and personalized stationary, hors d'oeuvres before dinner, fresh flowers in the cabin, binoculars, early embarkation and disembarkation priviledges, and on. What I found disturbing was that many of the items listed at present are free on board, provided in verandah suites and the rest provided complimentary in the highest paid categories.

Leisure dining was on one of the questions. I said I preferred the traditional dining. They asked if I would choose a cruise line based on the availability of leisure dining and I said yes -- hoping that the two answers are connected so that they would realize that I like traditional dining and may turn away from HAL if they do away with it. Looking at the instrument and how it was written, however, I fear that I may have just cast a vote in favor of leisure dining -- horrors!

They went on to ask about what things were most important to us on board, what descriptive words (chosen from their list) that we would use to describe HAL, Carnival, Princess and Royal Caribbean -- the list was inadequate for describing all of the cruise lines -- and they constantly asked if we would choose a cruise line based solely upon the ability to obtain each amenity package.

Nowhere could we interject anything personal like: do not start to charge us for those things that we already get for free as that may cause me to choose against YOUR cruiseline -- or suggest that a free offerring of some of these items in exchange for Mariner status might be appreciated.

I filled out the survey to the best of my ability. I am not opposed to change as long as it doesn't destroy that which brings me to cruise in the first place. Some of the new programs that they are considering might be interesting, but I am afraid that there is bias in the survey by the way it is written -- and no real way to express the bias that some things are best left the way they are.

[jhannah]

Several others have received this survey. There was a thread probably 2 months ago. So far I have not been contacted. Surveys can be tricky, as you note, because the choices given aren't all-inclusive of your feelings.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Jim, I think the survey spoken of by Lisa a couple of months back was a telephone survey. They actually called her and set up an appointment to call her back. They then went through a long battery of questions ... something like an hour ... where she had plenty of time to say what was on her mind.

This email survey appears to be something different. I haven't received one yet either unless it's in my inbox (I have different email boxes for different things).

[arzz]

They are not only tricky because the choices are not all inclusive of everyone's feelings, but they are easily written with a bias and will be interpreted in the same way. Bias was very clear to me as I completed the survey. The questions were written to elicit the response that they already wanted to hear rather than to truly determine what people want.

As a former teacher I have spent years writing not only tests but surveys to evaluate various programs, etc. It is extremely difficult to eliminate bias (and, quite honestly, maybe not possible)

That said, however, what I read between the lines is that some of what we are asking you about is already a done deal (though we are not going to tell you which parts) and we just want to be sure that we made the right decisions, or we just want to advertise our decisions in advance. It was not written as if they really wanted or cared about the input.

[trubey]

Maybe you couldn't respond with the detail and personal comments that you wanted on the survey, but by posting this thread, they will undoubtedly be read by HAL. And maybe more attention will be paid than to one person's comments on a survey. susana.

[RuthC]

arzz, this sounds like another survey sent out by so many companies. There's a pre-conceived destination and the questions are phrased in such a way as to support that goal. Then, when critics complain, those that formulated the defective instrument point to it as proof that "that's what people want". :rolleyes:
Kind of a self-fulfilling prophesy.

Thanks for letting us know what's going on now.

[iceman93]

I wonder if you could have included a hand-written note with the survey, explaining the kinds of things you did here? It may have been tossed in the trash, but then again maybe somebody at the survey company would have been so impressed that you actually took the time to provide MORE information that it would have gotten some serious play.

The part I find most interesting is that the cruise lines HAL asked you to compare them to were Carnival and RCCL. I would have been more heartened had they asked questions about RSSC and Crystal...

[aaerobear]

There are very very few surveys that are not scewed toward what the person conducting them wants to hear. For example take the onboard surveys we always fill out at the end of a cruise. If they really wanted to know how you felt there would be questions that made more sense.

One other thing is the rating system on crew members, if they don't all get excellent ratings they are called in.

Ed

[arzz]

The invite to the survey was sent e-mail and the survey was on-line. I could not find any way to hand write a resonse or you can be sure I would have done that. About six months ago I got an HAL survey, same distribution system, but it did have a box at the end for comments, as well as in several spots along the way. I kept looking for that.

[lougee1043]

I Leisure dining was on one of the questions. I said I preferred the traditional dining. They asked if I would choose a cruise line based on the availability of leisure dining and I said yes -- hoping that the two answers are connected so that they would realize that I like traditional dining and may turn away from HAL if they do away with it. Looking at the instrument and how it was written, however, I fear that I may have just cast a vote in favor of leisure dining -- horrors!

as i read this i think you did vote for leisure dining

i am signed on a survey site and they ofter ask about dining out for lunch- its all geared to fast food restaurants -- no real way to respond if you eat in a full service restaurant without a drive up window and the restaurant doesnt supersize your meal ---there is a comment box at the end where i write my comments-but i doubt its being read

bty==== last survey question ---do you still beat your wife???? lol

[Grumpy1]

In the polling industry, this is known as a "push" poll. The idea being to push you into supporting a predetermined result. Politicians and special interest groups use that technique all of the time so that they can point to a poll that supports their point of view. When you look at the "internals"... the actual questions asked, you often find that the actual result is just the opposite of what they claim the poll showed.

I refuse to participate in any poll that appears to be pushing a point of view reather than seeking my opinion.

[sailroscoe]

I think the powers that be are going mad! Also, it sounds like the suite perks will be a thing of the past in the near future.....as will I, cruising on HAL

[bepsf]

Regarding the questions that ask about being willing to pay extra for certain items that are traditionally regarded as perks for suite passengers, it sounds to me like they may be finally investigating creating a "Concierge Class" for those of us who enjoy the perks but don't always feel the need for the SA/SB/SC suites (something I've been in favor of for some time) If this is where they're going, I'm all for it!

I'm also good for the lecture series, prepaid spa packages, etc. too.

And as much as I prefer my traditional set table at the windows, I'm not so sure that the dining program as tested aboard Oosterdam recently is a totally bad one (As I understand it: one level traditional seating, one level open seating, both during the same two Early/Main timeframes)

Will be interesting to see what develops...

[mrsred]

In the polling industry, this is known as a "push" poll. The idea being to push you into supporting a predetermined result. Politicians and special interest groups use that technique all of the time so that they can point to a poll that supports their point of view. When you look at the "internals"... the actual questions asked, you often find that the actual result is just the opposite of what they claim the poll showed.

That's what I was thinking. If they are really interested in the opinions of those who frequently cruise their line...why would they do this type of survey?

If HAL would add lectures that would be wonderful!

I'm not sure about this free-style dining though since I've never experienced it. I like the way it is now...what is the difference?

~e

[HeatherInFlorida]

I absolutely agree with Grumpy. Most polls and surveys are set up this way. On my AOl they have them and I look at the question and the answers and mine's not there! So I don't take it because I see where it's going.

One thing I really hate is being manipulated and then being told that I asked for it. That's where they may be going with this leisure dining thing, but it seems that generally everyone sort of votes to come at the same time and you're right back to traditional dining ... only 2 times instead of 4! Why not just go back to 2 times and be done with it?

I'm reminded when we had a "survey" here in our development. They were thinking of putting in a back entrance and they put the word out to let the office know if you wanted it. Everyone living near the proposed site went screaming "no!" to the office.

So we don't have a rear entrance. Talk about a self-fulfulling "survey"!

[Pudgesmom]

I agree that the survey is worthless if they're just fishing for the "correct" answers.

but, I agree with bepsf that some changes to the cabins perks might not be so bad. Suite passengers are already paying more for the services they receive in the form of a higher cruise fare.

Maybe an "a la carte" program could be initiated, one in which people pay only for the things they want. Something like the spa passes now offered would be great. I would pay more for priority tendering, but not for the Neptune Lounge. Suite perks could be more individualized, not bundled like they are now. Perks could also be sold to other passengers in other cabins.

Might work.

Beth

[Grumpy1]

Lecture series.. take the world cruise, or a segment of it. they have great lecturers on board.

How in the world are they going to offer a purchased priority tendering? To offer just a few slots would dilute the priority tendering that the suite passengers have paid for with their higher fare. It could get to be like being a Mariner. If everyone on board is a Mariner, it has absolutely no meaning. If everyone on board has priority tendering.... it's meaningless.

There aren't that many suite perks that aren't available for pay by other categories.

[KAKcruiser]

I received this survey, too. It was very frustrating because you could only mark certain choices with no ability to write anything different or original. I don't see how this survey would be of much use to them unless, as has been suggested, they were only looking to verify what they had already decided.

[RuthC]

Maybe an "a la carte" program could be initiated, one in which people pay only for the things they want.
And before you know it you have.....Easy Cruise!
Do we truly want to get that far away from the traditional all-inclusive cruise model?

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree ... too much a la carte and everyone will pay for all the favorites and then, as Grumpy said, everyone's top banana!

However I will say that the Concierge Class on Celebrity works very well. Some people could care less about it; others like it. I liked it only because our cabin happened to be CC category and it got us a huge balcony.

I would happily pay to priority embarkation. I could care less about the tendering because all it saves you is the extra walk to the lounge to get tender tickets. Once down in the hold, you're on the same line. Not a biggie for me.

But get me on that ship as early as possible and I am one happy camper!:D

[zaandam_2]

I just completed the survey. Bespf - I think you're right about the CC class question. they even asked how much you would be willing to pay, per person.

For the lesiure dining I select 'not interested at all' and 'would chose to cruise on another line based on that' . i hope that indicated i prefer fixed dining.

another section offered several 'key words' to describe you favorite line. you had to pick 3. mine were 'mature adult oriented', 'classic' and 'great food'.

designating smoking/no smoking cabins was another question. as a smoker, i answered the same way as the dining question.

the survey did say it was being conducted on behalf of HAL, but you can say anything in an email.

[Pudgesmom]

How in the world are they going to offer a purchased priority tendering? To offer just a few slots would dilute the priority tendering that the suite passengers have paid for with their higher fare. It could get to be like being a Mariner. If everyone on board is a Mariner, it has absolutely no meaning. If everyone on board has priority tendering.... it's meaningless.

There aren't that many suite perks that aren't available for pay by other categories.

I think what I was trying to say, and didn't do very well, is that not all the suite perks and paid-for perks are equally important to all passengers. My DH and I love a larger cabin, because we spend much time there. I was trying to say that I would like to -in my case- pay extra for a larger cabin- but I would rather not subsidize the Neptune Lounge as I'm not that interested in that perk. Maybe some passengers who never get off the ship could care less about priority tendering.

Therefore, I could pay extra for the larger cabin, get the spa pass, and have priority tendering. Brian could have a smaller cabin and pay extra for his concierge service. If Holland is truly a one-class ship, let's make it that way. (Not trying to start an argument here) It would not be EasyCruise, RuthC, because the level of standard amenities is already much higher.

Our cruise is NOT an all-inclusive traditional cruise. We pay extra for larger suites, better restaurants, passes to the spa, cabanas at HMC, etc. We pay for drinks. I never go to the shows, maybe I could save money if others paid for the acts, as I wouldn't be there.

I know this sounds like a really strange idea. It just seems that as the cruise lines get tighter and tighter, I would rather spend my money for something I would use.

Beth:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

I understand what you're saying, Beth. And hi!!! Still wish I could get you off Windstar and on the Prinsendam with us:) . I'd love to cruise with you both again ... we had such fun with you.

I think it would be kind of neat if they offered a package of 3 "perks" included. Choose your poison. And then for a fee you could add "perks" such as Neptune (they can keep that one;) ), priority embarkation, disembarkation, tendering, spa, etc.

You would sign up for all this when you book, perhaps being allowed to "upgrade" later "as available". They would have a cutoff for how many could have priority tendering, etc.

I think it's a good idea because it encourages people to book sooner and book their favorite "perks". After all, they only have so many cabanas and when they're gone, they're gone. So why couldn't they do something similar with the "perks"?

And you're right, it's not the same as EZCruise (thank heaven:o !!)

[Pudgesmom]

Hi Heather!

Exactly! Why hasn't anyone asked us to run a cruise line?

I think many things are going in this direction anyway. I hear Northwest Airlines is now charging extra for aisle seats!

Beth

[RuthC]

Our cruise is NOT an all-inclusive traditional cruise. We pay extra for larger suites, better restaurants, passes to the spa, cabanas at HMC, etc. We pay for drinks.
What you're suggesting might be all well and good, Beth, if it would stay that way. But it wouldn't. It's a slippery slope that would eventually look more like Easy Cruise than the HAL I have known.
That's already started, in fact. It was not so long ago that you didn't have the opportunity to pay for larger suites, better restaurants, passes to the spa, etc. Those things simply did not exist.

Do the rest of you remember the discussions we had on this board when the (cost-free) restaurants were introduced? The consensus was that the quality of the dining experience in the main dining room would eventually be lessened. Haven't we seen an increase in posts about the quality of the food going down? Certainly we've seen many, many posts about how the service isn't as good because the stewards have too many passengers.

I don't see that the "Pick-a-Perk Program" (say that three times fast!:D ) would cause a drastic change overnight. Over time it would.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Ruth, I absolutely see your point and I also see Beth's. I'm with you in that I much preferred when we were given a price for the cruise and we were done. Except for drinks (which in those days were about $2.50 each:) ...much cheaper than on land at the time) there was absolutely no other expense. I lie ... there were shore excursions which were also very reasonable. Today's excursions, if you decide to take them in each port, can run you easily as much as the cruise.

So I'm with you 100% and I don't like seeing it go this way, but it is! So if it must, then I'd like to pick and choose what perks I get and which I don't. The thing is I really don't need a big fluffy bathrobe and little appetizers in my cabin at 4:00 (Concierge Class on Celebrity), but I wanted the cabin so everything was thrown in.

So I wouldn't suggest a change like this if they're not going to continue with the add-ons, but they are. So if they must ... let me pick:) .

As far as the decline in the DR experience, I don't think that's because of the specialty restaurants so much as a result of too many people on ships that they're making bigger and bigger for the sake of the people who need all this extra "stuff"! You feed 2000+ instead of 800 and you're going to see a downturn in quality ... particularly given the much cheaper fares today when you build in inflation.

And I have to say I think you're "Pick-A-Perk Program" does have a ring to it!!!:D

[arzz]

I agree 100% with Ruth C -- "pick a perk and slide the slippery slope"

[HeatherInFlorida]

I couldn't agree more, arzz, but we've been slidin' for awhile, I'm afraid:( . It's a long hill.

[kryos]

I think the powers that be are going mad! Also, it sounds like the suite perks will be a thing of the past in the near future.....as will I, cruising on HAL
I doubt suite perks will be a thing of the past ... after all, if there were no perks, why on earth would people choose to spend the money for a suite? Those suites would go empty half the time. I think what you may see, though, is a "menu" of suite perks ... some even better than what you get now, and you get to pick maybe the three that mattered most to you. They would be free and then you could choose to add others at extra cost. This could actually work out to one's advantage under this new scheme.

For example, maybe not everyone gives a rat's you know what about priority tendering ... they rarely get off in port ... but the Neptune Lounge is very, very important to them. Well, if they chose Neptune Lounge as one of their perks, perhaps the service there would be even better than what it is today because you would have less people using it. Maybe they could have pre-dinner cocktails offered there ... free of charge ... since there would be less people taking advantage of them. So, the perk would actually improve for those who truly felt it was important.

But, believe me ... you're never gonna see suite perks disappear ... not unless new build ships were going to be constructed with all "standard size" cabins. After all, if you're gonna pay for a suite, there'd better be something you're getting that the average bear isn't. And, since I am sure new builds will, if anything, have even more elaborate suite offerings, there will always be some excellent ammenities provided to encourage people to book them and pay their high cost.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Pudgesmom]

I doubt suite perks will be a thing of the past ... after all, if there were no perks, why on earth would people choose to spend the money for a suite? Those suites would go empty half the time. I think what you may see, though, is a "menu" of suite perks ... some even better than what you get now, and you get to pick maybe the three that mattered most to you. They would be free and then you could choose to add others at extra cost. This could actually work out to one's advantage under this new scheme.

For example, maybe not everyone gives a rat's you know what about priority tendering ... they rarely get off in port ... but the Neptune Lounge is very, very important to them. Well, if they chose Neptune Lounge as one of their perks, perhaps the service there would be even better than what it is today because you would have less people using it. Maybe they could have pre-dinner cocktails offered there ... free of charge ... since there would be less people taking advantage of them. So, the perk would actually improve for those who truly felt it was important.

But, believe me ... you're never gonna see suite perks disappear ... not unless new build ships were going to be constructed with all "standard size" cabins. After all, if you're gonna pay for a suite, there'd better be something you're getting that the average bear isn't.

Rita,

I totally agree with you here, except that to me the large square footage of the suite is a perk. I would gladly pay more for this accomodation and its bigger balcony even if it came with NOTHING else!

I would rather pay a la carte for everything else.

Beth

[Lefty Bob]

These surveys are getting out of hand. I get my oil changed at the dealer and I get a 5 page survey - how was this? how was that? I have my freezer fixed, another 5 page survey. Since they pay consultants for thier thoughts, I don't see why we should not receive some payment.:D

Therefore, I always ask how much they are paying for my thoughts?
The surveys have stopped.:)

LB

[kryos]

Rita,

I totally agree with you here, except that to me the large square footage of the suite is a perk. I would gladly pay more for this accomodation and its bigger balcony even if it came with NOTHING else!

I would rather pay a la carte for everything else.

Well, you might have a point there ... but I guess to my way of thinking ... if I were paying those big bucks for the premium suites ... I'd sure expect something more than just added space.

When I was on the Amsterdam, it seemed like suite passengers were in a world unto themselves. They were all clustered on the Navigation Deck, and had their Neptune Lounge. They were invited to the Captain's Gala, often had officers or cruise staff members joining their tables at dinnertime (and buying the table's wine, of course) and many of them would rarely be seen around the ship, especially during the daytime. Of course, because they had more square footage, I guess they took many of their meals in their suites.

But, still ... I would like to think that if I were paying those kinds of bucks that I would be extra carefully looked after ... that my needs would be anticipated and met before I even had a chance to voice them. Some of these perks would absolutely have to come with my suite.

But, then ... that's just me ... and for the record, I would never book a luxury suite ... one of the S suites or the PS. None of the associated perks, nor the extra space, is worth it to me. I'd rather save the money ... stay in an inside cabin ... and have enough left over to cruise again real soon. :)

Blue skies ...

--rita

[jhannah]

I would gladly pay more for this accomodation and its bigger balcony even if it came with NOTHING else! And this is essentially what the SS/SY/SZ (Superior Verandah Suite) is all about. Much more space inside and out, but without the S perks.

[arzz]

I find that this thread has taken an interesting turn -- I started it by reporting about a survey and expressing some of my fears -- and now I find that many of you are cheerfully telling HAL or whoever else might listen to this board what presently complimentary perks you are willing to pay for, as well as those that are given today that are not important to you! I am all for the free exchange of thought, but if HAL is listening, is this what we want to be saying?

HAL currently provides an elegant, sophisticated, traditional cruise experience that in my mind and for my budget is the top in the industry. I am very concerned about maintaining most of it as is so that as I enter my early retirement years, and finally get to do the travelling that I have yearned for most of my life, that I can travel in the style to which I have hoped and planned....

As we have all noticed, cruise prices have remained a real bargain for many years but are creeping up in 2006 and 2007 -- I do not also wish to be nickled and dimed to the poor house in order to maintain the experience that I have come to expect.

[Krazy Kruizers]

We did not get anything from HAL - written survey in the mail.

But 3 days before we were to leave for San Diego, we did get a call wanting to set up a telephone time to do a survey within 10 days. DH explained that we were leaving for the Amsterdam and wouldn't be back until April 9.

They said that they would call back - we shall see.

[HeatherInFlorida]

KK, that call you got is the same survey Lisa did. She took part in that survey and she really enjoyed it. They talked for a very long time and they were open to all her thoughts and opinions.

arzz, the thread did take a turn and I guess everyone is pretty much talking about what they would like to see happen if change must occur. I've watched so many changes over the past 25 years and it's night and day. Some of it is nice (like verandas) ... other stuff isn't (bigger, bigger, bigger with all the repercussions of that).

I loved the personal touch of the smaller ships and look forward to the Prinsendam for that reason. Sadly HAL is selling that ship and moving toward bigger. I'll be interested to see if a smaller ship today feels like the smaller ship of yesterday.

But I guess the main point is HAL is obviously doing these surveys to support what they plan to do anyway. In the end, as long as people continue to book, they feel they've done their job and what we as individuals might prefer is of no consequence.

That sounds harsh toward HAL, but it's really about the bottom line for them. And more and more people are going on cruises every year so the changes must be what the masses want.

[Pudgesmom]

arzz,

I'm sorry if we hijacked your thread. It was not intentional on my part.

I agree with Heather. Since your survey was about changes, I guess we got off the subject of biased surveys and headed off into a discussion about suite perks and possible changes.

I guess we could start another thread on that. I promise to cease and desist on this one!!

Beth:)

[richstacy]

Arzz, Push polls are frustrating, and you may have hit the nail on the head. It may be a prelude to charging for things that are now free. One thing you can do to make your wishes known is send an email saying everything you said in your post to: Guest_Relations@HollandAmerica.com
Richard

[arzz]

Oh good grief...I was not intending to accuse anyone of hijacking this thread -- it has taken interesting turns and is very interesting to read

My point was merely to say that we all fear changes that will cost us more and lesson our cruising experience. We have no way of knowing for sure what HAL had in mind with this recent survey -- though we can be rightfully suspicious and may well be correct.

I only meant to point out that the direction this thread was beginning to go was to openly admit to HAL (if they are listening) that we can do with less and/or are willing to pay for some of those things that we currently get gratis.

[gizmo]

I find that this thread has taken an interesting turn -- I started it by reporting about a survey and expressing some of my fears -- and now I find that many of you are cheerfully telling HAL or whoever else might listen to this board what presently complimentary perks you are willing to pay for, as well as those that are given today that are not important to you! I am all for the free exchange of thought, but if HAL is listening, is this what we want to be saying?

HAL currently provides an elegant, sophisticated, traditional cruise experience that in my mind and for my budget is the top in the industry. I am very concerned about maintaining most of it as is so that as I enter my early retirement years, and finally get to do the travelling that I have yearned for most of my life, that I can travel in the style to which I have hoped and planned....

As we have all noticed, cruise prices have remained a real bargain for many years but are creeping up in 2006 and 2007 -- I do not also wish to be nickled and dimed to the poor house in order to maintain the experience that I have come to expect.

My exact thoughts.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I was just going thru my email and realized I had one of these surveys sent to me on April 7th so I just got finished doing it:) I have to admit it was a bit confusing especially the part about how much you would pay for the extras. Since we mostly book suites I was confused at is the amount per person for a 7 day cruise the price of the whole cruise or how much extra for benefits. The part about the dining I put that It Would NOT Appeal to me and then the next question about which dining blocks you prefer I left blank meaning I would not like that concept at all.
I honestly did not think the survey was one sided or trying to get me to answer one way ot the other. I just think they did not have enough options to put in all answers kind of like whne we set up a survey here on CC and we cannot list all the ships and someone always says "You did not list my favorite ship"

KK, did you ever get called back for your appointment on the phone survey?

I have used my Amazon Gift card and purchased a Sandisk Extreme III 1 GB so I can take Lots and Lots of pictures in Alaska:D