Anyone worried about the Bird Flu & Alaskan Cruises?

[5 in OK]

I keep hearing reports about the Bird Flu and concern about Alaska being a port of entry for diseased migrating birds as early as the summer months.

There's a movie about an outbreak in America on ABC on May 9th.

Anyone done any research on this to ease my mind. We sail on May 21st out of Seattle.

[shipcafe]

The more you read up and "study" about something that may not happen, the more real it seems.

While it is good to be vigilant should something arise, I think it's best to just look forward to your cruise and have a great time!

[Krazy Kruizers]

We aren't worried about it - heading to Alaska in June.

[grannynurse]

We have friendsin their 60's who sailed to Alaska on Carnaval last August. Flew from Tulsa and back on AA.
The day after they got home both were admitted to ICU in respiratory distress.
Their grandson (15)was also admitted (not to ICU) but was released the following day. All 3 were in 1 cabin (PS). A niece and nephew who sat in another area of the plane and were in a different cabin had symptoms but required no hospitalization. (They all sat together at dinner and did shorex together).

The couple: One had samples sent to CDC (to their knowledge the other had no cultures taken). They were in diffrent hospitals with different pulmonologists and different epidemiologists. Since then, both have continued to be on oxygen on and off with many other associated symptoms. They do not know if anything was reported to the airline or cruiseline, but supposedly, the one culture was positive for Avian flu.
The wife just got out of the hospital on Thursday for another bout of the same symptoms. Neither had any previous history of any respiratory problems.

I have no idea what is going on but neither do the doctors, or they're not telling. I just see the results, walking around with portable O2, coughing spells, shortness of breath, repeated hospitalizations etc. I wonder about the air circulating in airline cabins and there is much being written about this.
GN

[sail7seas]

From all we read and hear, I think it disgraceful the airlines are permitted to stuff us all into their aluminum tubes and in the interest of their penny pinching make us breathe the same recirculated dirty air for hours. If the prices have to be higher to pay for heating clean air, then raise the prices and if some people can no longer fly because of cost, at least those on planes have the chance of breathing fresh air. Sorry......I feel like if we have to pay for it, then so be it but give passengers the basic human need........fresh, clean air.

Is there anyone here who has flown that does not cringe when you hear a person sneezing/coughing and you full well know it is unavoidable that whatever he/she spewed into the air is headed into your nose and mouth.

The airlines are so busy finding way to charge us for requesting exit row seats and aisle seats or whatever...... would be nice if they planned to spend that revenue on bringing (and warming) fresh air into the cabins. Shouldn't be asking to much for us to have fresh air to breathe.

Wish I could say I'm now off my soapbox, but, alas, I am not!!!

As to the Flu Question and Alaska.

The first 'flu' bird that may migrate here to the U.S. could acutally 'hitch' a ride on a plane, ship etc ....for all we know, it may already be here. It can come to Alaska, Maine, Florida, Texas, California, Arizona......take your pick. No predicting where or IF or WHEN it MIGHT arrive.
But, it probably will at some point....sooner rather than later.



GN........that's a very disturbing case you describe. It certainly is worrisome and makes us wonder how many others like it there may be throughout the country. Can we be sure any of us will actually know when the first case(s) of avian flu are diagnosed here? We hear about them elsewhere so it's hard to believe we haven't had/won't have any???

[sail7seas]

I adopted a philosophy of 'not tempting fate' but of living my life. I'm not a reckless risk taker but if all we did was stay home and cower in fear of catching avian flu or norovirus or mumps or whatever the disease du jour is......what's the sense? Our lives fly by fast enough; get out and enjoy what you love doing and 'hope for the best'.

How sad to live to be 95 and say.......gee, I wish I took that cruise to Alaska but was afraid some sick bird could carry a flu that never really swept the world the way is was warned it could/might.

[ger_77]

sail7seas: clap, clap, clap, clap - I agree wholeheartedly!

Smooth Sailing! :) :) :)

[Silver Pearl]

The good news is that so far there are no supported, documented cases of human-to-human AI transmission. The people who have gotten it have all been in contact with infected birds and/or their droppings. These infections have mostly occurred from domestic fowl to humans, with the domestic fowl having earlier gotten infected from migratory birds.

The good news here is that in the U.S., domestic fowl usually don't mix with migratory birds--with the exception of some small farm operations. So, a Perdue, Tyson, or other mass market chicken or turkey is unlikely to have the opportunity to wander down to the pond and hang out with migratory water fowl.

AI is a POTENTIALLY pandemic disease. For it to go pandemic, a couple of things have to happen. First, it has to mutate to a form that makes human-to-human transmission easy. Although mutation is very common for influenza virii, it has not happened with AI yet.

Second, AI will have to mutate to become a lot less deadly. At this point, about half the humans who get it die. That's bad news and good news. The bad news speaks for itself. The good news is less obvious--a disease that deadly kills off or incapacitates its victims to such a degree that they don't get to spread the disease to pandemic levels. Think of Ebola or Marburg or other truly horrible diseases: The outbreaks have been limited because of their high mortality rate.

Anyway, I could go on, but it's not really happy vacation material. So, for the time being, here's the bottom line: You are not at all likely to be exposed to AI on an Alaskan cruise or, for that matter, any other cruise in the near future. Cooking birds well kills AI virii, so you won't get it by consuming any fowl that have been well cooked.

Of course, once AI does go pandemic--which is likely in the next year or two--all bets will be off. But, at that time, cruising will NOT be something that most of us will be thinking about. Instead, we'll be thinking about hunkering down at home with six weeks worth of bottled water and food stuffs.

Hope this helps.

--Rich

[sail7seas]

Thanks for your very infomative and concise post. That is precisely what our very good friend (an Infectious Disease Doc) explained to us.


Are you in the school that people should be stockpiling six weeks worth of food, water, toilet articles, necessary Rx's?

[Silver Pearl]

Yes, I'm of that school, though I have not yet done those things myself. When the pandemic hits, it is likely to spread in waves, with each being about up to six weeks time. I'm hoping that we'll have enough time to stock up before the first wave.

The best defense for AI at this date will be to avoid large groups of people. Hence the idea of hunkering down at home, telecommuting, and the like. We can hope that vaccinations and treatments may be developed, but I don't think this will happen quickly enough to help most people. So, preparing to avoid exposure will be best.

--Rich

Thanks for your very infomative and concise post. That is precisely what our very good friend (an Infectious Disease Doc) explained to us.


Are you in the school that people should be stockpiling six weeks worth of food, water, toilet articles, necessary Rx's?

[sail7seas]

I can't help but notice you say 'when', not 'if'.

I have been accumulating a supply of necessities. When one extends the reasoning as to why will we need to accumulate water etc, we have to realize all the services which not be available because of workers who are either ill or 'hunkering' and refusing to come to work.

[dennbr9]

At this point it is just a lot of media hype. In Asia about a 100 or so people have died from it, out of billions of people in areas of poor sanitation, etc. That comes out to about .00001 % chance or 1 person in 10 Million or more. Have a chicken sandwich and enjoy yourself, maybe wash your hands first.

Dennis

[Silver Pearl]

Good for you for taking precautions!

I write "when" not "if," because mutation is just the way flu virii work. It's like having access to unlimited slot machines and an endless supply of tokens. Eventually you're going to come up four gold bars. Jackpot! And, for AI, the jackpot will be a human-to-human, less virulent mutation. That one will naturally spread easily.

That said, it's not 100% certain, but few things are. What is certain is that with our increased globilazation and other factors, emergent virii of one sort or another will be the plague of the future.

Again, not happy vacation reading. But, I think there will be increasing education efforts over the next six months and most of us will learn about how to take care in the face of new crises. This is one area in which the U.S. government is making better than the usual preparations.

It is a good idea to stockpile now, but I'm just a bit too lazy to jump into it yet. That's my bad. Maybe encouragement--such as that which you provide by example--will help me get off the blocks.

--Rich


I can't help but notice you say 'when', not 'if'.

I have been accumulating a supply of necessities. When one extends the reasoning as to why will we need to accumulate water etc, we have to realize all the services which not be available because of workers who are either ill or 'hunkering' and refusing to come to work.

[middle-aged mom]

At this point it is just a lot of media hype. In Asia about a 100 or so people have died from it, out of billions of people in areas of poor sanitation, etc. That comes out to about .00001 % chance or 1 person in 10 Million or more. Have a chicken sandwich and enjoy yourself, maybe wash your hands first.

Dennis

I tend to agree with Dennis. Of more concern to us should be diseases such as malaria and tuberculosis, which already kill millions of people a year in developing nations. Those are the real pandemics.

[sail7seas]

Dennis and middle-aged Mom......

You well could be correct (but I do not think so.)
My thinking is what is there to lose my putting aside some cans of tuna fish, some cans of soup, some dry milk, peanut butter, crackers, being sure to have at least 60 days of our necessary medications etc? There is nothing to lose but it could provide us with much needed comfort in the event that a pandemic does strike.

Why not err on the side of caution? I am sure you will easily consume the extra food you purchased in the course of normal living if you do not need it as emergency supplies?

[dennbr9]

Not to mention Meningitis, pneumonia, E Coli, etc.

As for hunkering down and staying home, they say the air in most homes is worse for you than being outside - all the chemical fumes, dust, potential for radon, carbon monoxide and on and so on and so on.

[sail7seas]

What is the harm in each of us taking personal responsibility to provide emergency supplies for ourselves and our own families? Instead of waiting for 'them' to make provision, do you think it reasonable each family puts aside some necessities JUST IN CASE there is a worse case scenario?

What is the downside to everyone bringing home an extra this or that each week as they do their grocery shopping so they don't have to lay out a measurable amount of extra money at once?

I'm on my way out now but really am at a loss to figure out what's to lose by being somewhat/slightly prepared?

[dennbr9]

If it make you feel more comfortable to stock up, I would say go for it.

As you say, no harm is done by it.

[Silver Pearl]

I . . . Of more concern to us should be diseases such as malaria and tuberculosis, which already kill millions of people a year in developing nations. Those are the real pandemics.

Right. About one third of the World's population currently tests positive for TB. It's a real scourge in undeveloped countries, and becoming more resistant to many antibiotics in first wolrd countries. But our bodies do have some immunity to TB and other diseases that have been around a long time.

As mentioned, Malaria is another pandemic, though largely in Southern climes. And let's not leave out HIV/AIDS, which is pandemic is the Horn of Africa and some parts of Asia.

All that said, the thing about Avian Influenza is that, at this point, our bodies have no immunity to them whatsoever. So, if (most probably when) it becomes pandemic, it has the potential to sweep through populations unchecked, like the great Spanish Flu pandemic.

Did you know that currently, in the few cases when humans have contracted it, AI is most deadly in the 18 - 40-year-old range? That's the opposite of usual infections. The reason is that the healthiest people's immune systems react most potently to it. They release what is known as a "cytokene storm." Cytokene's are natural proteins produced by our bodies' immune systems to fight invaders. Because there is no immunity, cytokene is way over-produced, which is what is causing more fatalities in those with the least compromised immune systems. The ctyokenes begin to attack internal organs. AI victims who have died have "bled out," as their internal organs were attacked.

So, that's the unlovely story. I write this as a consultant in global health, and I wish I were making it up, but I'm not.

To worry about cruising now on account of AI is groundless. We're in agreement there. But to dismiss AI as media hype is ignorance.

I think by next Winter in the Western Hemisphere, things will begin to have a clearer picture of the particular threat posed by AI.

Meanwhile, if you're taking a cruise to Viet Nam or other places that have had a lot of AI cases, avoid live poultry markets and make sure your poultry dishes are well cooked. Otherwise, I wouldn't think twice about AI in regard to cruising.

--Rich

[7continentKaren]

You cannot get bird flu from cooked poultry. Don't walk barefoot on bird droppings (not a likely activity in Alaska). Don't handle birds. Don't worry. Be happy!

[Robin7]

What is the harm in each of us taking personal responsibility to provide emergency supplies for ourselves and our own families? Instead of waiting for 'them' to make provision

We saw how prepared 'them' were for Hurricane Katrina, didn't we? That showed that we can only depend on ourselves--at least for the first four or five days of a disaster. I believe storing emergency items for your family is just plain common sense.

We live in earthquake country. We have several 55-gallon drums of water and a few weeks of food storage for our family. We're lucky because our porch, which runs the length of the front of the house, has storage beneath it, accessed from our basement, so we have somewhere to keep our 'emergency supplies'. (Provided the porch holds up in a quake!:D) I mostly keep things like canned veggies and fruits, canned meat, Kraft Mac and Cheese, and other things that we usually eat. About 15 years ago, my husband bought a bunch of military surplus MREs. UGH. We just recently threw them out. (As if we could have eaten them after all this time. :eek: ) He also bought 'liferaft rations.' They were enormous, dry, hard, protein-like bars. DOUBLE UGH. I finally talked him out of storing stuff like that. I guess we're just Boy Scouts--we believe in 'being prepared.'

This guy takes it to an extreme. Kind of an entertaining read. http://www.survivalblog.com/asianflu.html

Robin

[bepsf]

I'm w/ S7S...

I'd rather live it up and die young(-ish) knowing that I had a great time than cower under a rock and never do anything and live to a hundred.

I could easily get hit by a MUNI Bus tomorrow and be just as dead as from some silly bird flu/mad cow/massive earthquake/tsunami/terrorist bombing/random-act-of-stupidity.

But I doubt that I'll get Avian Flu in Alaska or anywhere else...
..I don't kiss chickens on the lips!

;)

[BajaFred]

The information that Silver Pearl has provided to the board is extremely accurate with regards to what is known todate about Avian Flu. It confirms all I have read and heard from different emergency mgmt conferences I have attended that have included talks on Avian Flu.
Cruising to Alaska this year is not going to be a problem. I know that was the OP's original question, but the information he has provided needs to be re-read and kept in the back of all our minds. Keep track of what is happening when the birds do come to our area (US). Businesses, schools, local governments have been advised to have plans ready if/when the Avian Flu hits this country.
I worked with the federal/state government when Exotic Newcastle Disease was discovered in California in 2003. This was strictly a bird problem, but took over 1 yr to eradicate.
Thank you Silver Pearl for the information
Carole

[trixiee]

I'm w/ S7S...

I'd rather live it up and die young(-ish) knowing that I had a great time than cower under a rock and never do anything and live to a hundred.

I could easily get hit by a MUNI Bus tomorrow and be just as dead as from some silly bird flu/mad cow/massive earthquake/tsunami/terrorist bombing/random-act-of-stupidity.

But I doubt that I'll get Avian Flu in Alaska or anywhere else...
..I don't kiss chickens on the lips!

;)

I agree, totally! ... except that chickens don't have lips! :-)

[Silver Pearl]

Thanks for the vote of confidence, Carole. None of us have a crystal ball. And I don't want to be "crying wolf," or yelling "the sky is falling." My intent in responding to the original post in this thread was to inform people that Avian Influenza is NOT a real consideration in cruising this season.

But, I thought it would be responsible to respond to posts suggesting that AI is merely media hype by pointing out that, far from hype, it is likely. To put it in perspective, an AI pandemic is much more likely than a hurricane overwhelming the dykes in New Orleans in any given year.

And, despite it being a genuine tragedy, Katrina was a regional catastrophe, not a global one. AI will be global.

A minor effect of AI--but one relevant to the CC boards--is that few people will want to be booking cruises when a pandemic is raging. The thought of being in a closed environment with thousands of people will be unappealing, at best. There is likely to be a year or two when the entire cruise industry takes a serious hit.

--Rich

The information that Silver Pearl has provided to the board is extremely accurate with regards to what is known todate about Avian Flu. It confirms all I have read and heard from different emergency mgmt conferences I have attended that have included talks on Avian Flu.
Cruising to Alaska this year is not going to be a problem. I know that was the OP's original question, but the information he has provided needs to be re-read and kept in the back of all our minds. Keep track of what is happening when the birds do come to our area (US). Businesses, schools, local governments have been advised to have plans ready if/when the Avian Flu hits this country.
I worked with the federal/state government when Exotic Newcastle Disease was discovered in California in 2003. This was strictly a bird problem, but took over 1 yr to eradicate.
Thank you Silver Pearl for the information
Carole

[BajaFred]

I first started mentioning it to my family/friends last Oct/Nov. Very little info in media at the time. Everyone just started rolling their eyes when I would bring up the subject. Now, they read the articles and ask questions. I think that is one of the biggest things - getting folks to read up on it and thinking about what they need to do for themselves/family to be prepared.
Exotic Newcastle (END) cost this country millions/billion dollars.
I am glad you responded to the OPs original question regarding cruising & AI.

[sail7seas]

While in the grocery store today, I picked up a few more cans of veggies and soup. They have been added to our little 'reserve' and will be available if we need them.

[Oceanwench]

Well, a lot of us in Florida [and many in other coastal states] always have our stash of water, canned foods, shelf-stable items, first aid supplies, extra pet food, extra meds, etc. etc.

And batteries, generators, flashlights, weather radios ...

Guess we're ready come hell or high water! :eek:

[Scrumpy]

We did not hesitate to book a cruise to Alaska due to health concerns. As far as any potential pandemic, I do not think it is eminent. DH flies weekly and rarely gets ill. I worry more about the people he comes in contact with on the plane than I do about the potential (small, at this point) of either us contracting Avian flu in Alaska. I don't doubt that this is remotely possible, but anything is possible and the odds have to be pretty high for us to change what we do.

The worst thing that happens if you stock up on things at home is that you throw them out. I found some canned goods that are expired, so they need to go. Not a big deal. I'd rather have some extras and not need them than not have what I do need. Batteries seem to last nearly forever nowadays and I don't worry about having too many of those. We're on well water, so we would do okay even if we had to use a generator for the pump. Overall, I feel pretty safe here at home.

Our largest health concern here in Colorado is West Nile Virus. Not only do have to vaccinate our horses against it - and worry about the safety of the vaccine, but we are anxious about catching it ourselves. Our veterinarian caught it and it was a long recovery. Dang mosquitos...

[sail7seas]

Oh....you mean like supplies in case of blizzards? :) We, too, pay attention for a few days/weeks provisions in case of blizzard OR Hurricane in Massachusetts. This, though, I expect could be more than a few week need. I imagine this could be a need for 4-6 weeks.

[sail7seas]

We did not hesitate to book a cruise to Alaska due to health concerns...

Were we interested in a cruise to Alaska, I would not hesitate for a moment to book it over a bird flu concern. Absolutely, without question, if Alaska were a destination of choice for us we'd be booked.

We ARE booked for a Canada/New England Cruise in August. Same odds IMO of the birds appearing on the East Coast as the West Coast??

[Scrumpy]

This guy takes it to an extreme. Kind of an entertaining read. http://www.survivalblog.com/asianflu.html

Robin

This mentality scares me! It reminds me of when we bought our other rural property and the guy at the county told me he wanted his family all together in houses back-to-back for "when the day came". I couldn't get my head around it; it seemed so paranoid. I am almost a hermit already, but I make a trip to town most weeks - more than that sometimes. I know a lot of folks couldn't live such an isolated existence. Wow...

[Scrumpy]

Oh....you mean like supplies in case of blizzards? :) We, too, pay attention for a few days/weeks provisions in case of blizzard OR Hurricane in Massachusetts. This, though, I expect could be more than a few week need. I imagine this could be a need for 4-6 weeks.



Knock wood, we made it through the whole winter without even losing power and were only snowed in for a day at a time here and there!

I don't purposely stock extra provisions. It works out that way because of the way I shop. I tend to buy in bulk because I don't like shopping. We rarely let things get low or run out. I get a lot of canned goods, but we hardly ever eat them. DH gets fresh veggies every week or so and the canned stuff sits there - for months or years sometimes. It really adds up after a while. I buy "just in case", but am more thinking about having plenty of soup if someone gets sick or having a variety of choices in case we're snowed in for a few days. I had that mentality before we moved to a rural area. My whole shopping mindset changed when I moved to Colorado and the effect of living in the country has been minimal. I get a lot more canned goods in general now than I did in TX; the main concern there was tornados and cans just turn into missiles!

I think it's important to be prepared and we've considered converting to propane for some of the appliances. It's a tough call. I'm not going to let rare events or threats dictate our lifestyle too much. A couple of cases of canned goods and water is one thing, but radical changes require a lot more thought.

[sail7seas]

I'm not going to let rare events or threats dictate our lifestyle too much. A couple of cases of canned goods and water is one thing, but radical changes require a lot more thought.
I so agree. A few extra provisions and common sense prep and that is all I intend to get into.

I have no intention of changing anything about our lives......one can spend their whole life worrying about one thing or another and let the months/years pass by consumed with that worry.

No Way. Not me!!!