X Strikes Again....

[bepsf]

I am so PO'd today I can barely think straight....

Checked my bank accounts today and discovered an unexpected charge on my account: over $1500 charged to me by X/Mercury yesterday!

If you recall, I checked myself off Mercury in SF on the 2nd day of the 11-day cruise I had won from X through Travelocity. After I checked out from the front desk and had returned to the room to gather my belongings to take down to the pier, they called and told me that they didn't have my charge number on file for my onboard expenses to which I replied that they had taken the number in Mexico - they could check on the laptops that they've left there and get it from there as I was not about to give them my number again to be used for lord-knows-what.

My friend Don, who was in the same room and also left that day had reviewed and signed off on the charges to be placed on the card that he'd registered as he checked out that am.

Since my other friend Scotty stayed aboard in our room and continued to Seattle (where he lives), he of course continued to charge items to the room. He too had supplied his own card for his shipboard expenses when we checked in.

When I called RCCL/X (the number listed on the charge description was the common reservations number - Ugh) I was eventually transferred over to a person in the Resolutions Department. She told me that there was quite a list of charges to my account (DUH) and suggested that maybe charges kept ringing up since I didn't check out at the front desk? Had I left my card in the room for my friend to use? I certainly didn't appreciate her asserting that my friend might be dishonest. She then suggested that they didn't have other cards on file, so they'd charged everything to me since I was the primary on the stateroom - to which I responded that that was ridiculous, as we all checked in and supplied our own cards, I've never had a problem with keeping accounts separate from travel partners on cruiseships before, and that the folks at the front desk had even told me upon checkout that they didnt have my account number on file!

She e-mailed me the account breakdown so that I could sort out which charges belonged to who - an excerpt of which is below:

5/8/2006 1 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/8/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $19.55 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $46.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $12.59 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 LAUNDRY $12.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $4.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $27.43 (USD)
5/10/2006 2 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $100.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 SKY BAR $13.17 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $108.90 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $22.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 GIFT SHOP $3.99 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $5.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $32.78 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $2.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $20.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $6.84 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $5.69 (USD)

After scratching my head for a few minutes, I noticed a pattern to the dating and the relevance of the number between the date of the charge and the description: that little number corresponds to the individual who initiated the charge - I'm #1, Don is #2 and Scotty is #3. Why the heck those idiots in whatever office who run these charges couldn't figure that one out and apply the charges correctly absolutely baffles me!

I e-mailed and faxed the info back to my contact at their offices - I tried to call back my contact 2 times to confirm that she'd received the info, but the phone rang and rang and rang...... No Voicemail!

Finally got through to someone else in the department and explained the situation again - she 'couldn't' reverse the charge and apply the appropriate charge today (she had to take my charge number again to get me a credit back) - she has to run it up to some other level and get some kind of "approval" to correct their error - she said that I might get my refund tomorrow. Hopefully I'll hear back.....

My friends returned my calls today, and have offered to take care of this by paying me directly themselves, but I want X to make it right - that's THEIR job, not my friend's.

It was bad enough having a poor experience and getting sick on their ship - I've been considering writing RCCL/X telling them how poorly their product measures up - but this absolutely seals the deal: X and Travelocity are both getting letters from me alright...
:mad:

(I'm feeling like a King alright: King Louis XVI...)

[kryos]

I've been considering writing RCCL/X telling them how poorly their product measures up - but this absolutely seals the deal: X and Travelocity are both getting letters from me alright.
I wouldn't even waste my time writing letters. If Celebrity service is that poor ... your letters are probably just gonna wind up as material for their customer service people to pass around and laugh about.

What I would do ... and what would be far more effective ... is just contact my credit card company and deny the charge ... in its entirety. Then see how quick Celebrity comes back to you ... willing to work things out ... and willing to be far more accommodating and service-oriented than they've been in the past. They will realize then that they either work with you, or they'll get nothing at all.

Believe me, they'll assign someone to go over that bill with a fine-toothed comb and get all the charges properly assigned and billed to the right cards.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[NoNoNanette]

Sorry to hear of your troubles, Brian. :(

I'm hoping (confidently) that your CC company will straighten this out. I had booked a group cruise a couple of years ago....

The agency who'd handled the group, "New Orleans Eat Club", suddenly shut their doors.

Shortly after, I got a statement from my credit card co. showing extra charges of over 5 grand.... the guy had taken my credit card and credited other's accounts. (Who'd paid cash).

Turns out the guy was a drug addict and started juggling payments.

ANYWAY, kiddo-

I suffered MUCH STRESS.
Lost MUCH SLEEP.

BUT..... all was OK in the end. Think positively, honey! ;)

[bepsf]

I wouldn't even waste my time writing letters. If Celebrity service is that poor ... your letters are probably just gonna wind up as material for their customer service people to pass around and laugh about.

What I would do ... and what would be far more effective ... is just contact my credit card company and deny the charge ... in its entirety. Then see how quick Celebrity comes back to you ... willing to work things out ... and willing to be far more accommodating and service-oriented than they've been in the past. They will realize then that they either work with you, or they'll get nothing at all.

Believe me, they'll assign someone to go over that bill with a fine-toothed comb and get all the charges properly assigned and billed to the right cards.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Rita --

You're right about the charge idea - Wells Fargo couldn't have been nicer: they've placed the charge on some sort of "incorrect amount" notice and are willing to waive all kinds of overage fees for me on this.

Yeah, I kinda don't really think X cares one bit about my letter or my opinion of their company - I'm more interested in the response that I get from Travelocity...

[GMoney]

I am so PO'd today I can barely think straight....



thats not a bad thing.... :D

[thomasale]

thats not a bad thing.... :D

Now thats' funny! :)

[Tricia724]

Gee, Brian, I sure hope I never win a cruise on Travelocity! For sure I won't bother to enter if I ever see one offered. It gives a new perspective to "winning," doesn't it?

[twinkletoes4445]

Wow, what a mess. I hope you get this straightened out soon. :(

[Bramcruiser]

Gee! I hope I never win anything! Too much hassle. Go get 'em Brian!

[dmk]

Well, Brian, I see your spreading your joy everywhere:rolleyes: .

[jhannah]

Holy Cow!!!! How ridiculous. That's what the get for hiring accountants from the Close Cover Before Striking School of Accountancy. ;)

[JLC@SD]

An eleven day cruise turns into two day cruise for you and you get a bill for 1,500.00 you didn't expect. Did you get to pay tax as well, for winning a cruise you didn't complete.

When is Travelocity offering another opportunity to "win".....:D

[tech]

When I saw this post, I decided to go back and find your review of this trip.

I believe you completely on your review.

We sailed on X when it was still Chandris..Galaxy was brand new. Sailed with them multiple times on Mercury ( new ) Infinity, Zenith and Summit.

Our last trip with X was on the Zenith.

For people that sailed years ago to say that X is still maintaining their previous standards, well, they are not seeing the decline we have seen.

On the Zenith, beds were awful ( this was supposedly after a drydock ) sheets and towels had holes in them. Stains everywhere on furniture, etc. Most of all the food. So very sad. When we first cruised them, the food was truly wonderful.

This time we sent dishes back to the kitchen, they were so bad.

People that travel now on X and do not know of the past or do not care that they still bill themselves as a 5 Star seem to be happy with the product.

We have given up on X even though we have sailed enough to have good perks.

We love HAL and had a wonderful cruise recently on Princess Sapphire.

Now to add insult to injury, you have to deal with this accounting nightmare.

It will be straightened out but only after repeated calls, letters and aggravation that you should not have to experience. Plus your own personal time to clear it all up.

As to people saying you should have stayed on the ship since it was free. Sure, another 9 fun filled days of bad beds, bad food and nothing much to do...

Sounds like my idea of a good vacation. NOT !

Celebrity will continue to decline until people wake up and admit that this is not a premium line anymore. The customers need to stop being satisfied with a less than stellar performance.

Having High Standards and expecting the same as advertised is something everyone should do. :)

[dakrewser]

You didn't know when you were well off, did you? :)

You had to go aned insist they give you the cruise you won. Someone at X wasn't happy with that. Now you know what they can do when you tick them off!:rolleyes:

Now I'm sure you can prove you weren't even on the ship when some of those charges were processed, right? Obviously someone on board was forging your name....:eek:

[sail7seas]

Good thing the cruise boarded in Mexico or the next thing we know they'd be hitting you with fines for violating Passenger Carriage Act (Jones Act) by leaving the ship when you did.

[as41shots]

5/8/2006 1 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/8/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $19.55 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $46.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $12.59 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 LAUNDRY $12.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $4.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $27.43 (USD)
5/10/2006 2 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $100.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 SKY BAR $13.17 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $108.90 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $22.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 GIFT SHOP $3.99 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $5.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $32.78 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $2.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $20.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $6.84 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $5.69 (USD)


Looks to me like you know how to have a good time. ;)

[kryos]

Gee, Brian, I sure hope I never win a cruise on Travelocity! For sure I won't bother to enter if I ever see one offered. It gives a new perspective to "winning," doesn't it?
I hate to say it ... but my motto has always been "you get what you pay for." In this case, Brain paid zero, and that's about what he got for his money ... just a bunch of aggravation ... from having to fight like h*** to get his prize, then having that prize turn out not to be what was expected ... and now having to dispute onboard charges. Sounds like this winner actually turned out to be a "loser" ... and that's a shame. Thank God my one sailing on Celebrity was as a result of being the guest of a TA group, so my cruise fare was paid to the group (not to Celebrity), and the only dealings I had with Celebrity's accounting department was for my onboard charges ... which thankfully were accurate.

I wouldn't want to go through all this crap that Brian is dealing with. :(

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Odd Ball]

:D Will someone please pass the cheese ?

[jhannah]

I smell a made-for-TV movie here? ;) Wonder who they'll get to play Brian???

[Krazy Kruizers]

When I added up the figures that were posted here I got a little over $590 not $1500. Something doesn't sound right here.

Also some of those charges are for only $1 or $2 for drinks??


Brian did you put in the right numbers?

Sorry you are going through all this. Have never sailed on Celebrity and don't intend to.

[K&RCurt]

Sorry you are going through all this Brian.

Truly the cruise that keeps on giving!

[Grumpy1]

When I added up the figures that were posted here I got a little over $590 not $1500. Something doesn't sound right here.

Also some of those charges are for only $1 or $2 for drinks??


Brian did you put in the right numbers?

Sorry you are going through all this. Have never sailed on Celebrity and don't intend to.the $1 and $2 charges look like customer addons to the bar tab for tips.

Brian said it was an excerpt from the charges, not the whole mile long list.

[bepsf]

Brian did you put in the right numbers?


Yup KK - that was only page one to illustrate how their onboard accounting looks. (didnt want to bore you w/ Scotty's charges for the rest of the cruise...) ;)

I figure if a goofy blond like me could figure it out in a few minutes, why couldn't/wouldn't the folks who do this for a living figure it out?

At least I have today off so I can spend the day harrassing X to get my dinero back and writing compliant letters...
:(

[dougnewmanatsea]

I have to disagree with all those who say, "don't write a letter, they won't care".

I am sure there is someone at RCCL/Celebrity who would be interested in hearing this whole sorry tale. I'd suggest Celebrity's "brand president" Dan Hanrahan for starters. (Oh, and make sure it's a paper letter - e-mail doesn't have the same impact!) And maybe RCCL CEO Richard Fain too.

If nothing else, they will care because it is not in their best interest to have bad things written about them on a site like this! I am sure it will not be lost on them how much potential business they've lost as a result of this fiasco... Not just from Brian, but from people who have read his posts.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Brian

And don't forget to make copies of the letter you send. Also send it by special mail where you can request a signed receipt.

Your friend really had a good time on that cruise.

[Sunshine91]

Looks to me like you know how to have a good time. ;)

Yes, he does. ;) And he's always a gentleman.

Oh, Brian, when will this end for you? Did X charge you (#1) for the full 11-days of auto-tip too? Give 'em h***, but don't let this spoil your holiday weekend sweetie.

[mechcc]

Brian - So sorry this has been the trip from H___L and then to top it off with a $1,500 erronous charge is over the top in poor customer service. Do really hope that X makes this right and quicky.

Wanted to post my support on the X thread but they closed it before I had the chance. Funny, how it was all your fault that X's accounting system messed things up royally and it's your fault. The X Snobs Strike Again! This is the same group that drove numerous people from this cruise site to that new upstart site.

[RevNeal]

And, Brian ... please please ... when you write up your letters to X HQ, make sure you do a cut-and-paste from your word-processor to this board so that we can read and enjoy your letters, too. :)

Brian ... so sorry about this mess. And it IS a mess. :(
Don't worry ... the Noordam in January will get here soon enough!

[as41shots]

Ummmmmm... if these are legitimate charges incurred by your friend, it seems like it would be a lot easier to get your friend to reimburse you than to fight X about removing the charges.

[FoxyTerrier]

I am so PO'd today I can barely think straight....

Checked my bank accounts today and discovered an unexpected charge on my account: over $1500 charged to me by X/Mercury yesterday!

If you recall, I checked myself off Mercury in SF on the 2nd day of the 11-day cruise I had won from X through Travelocity.

I don't blame you at all for being PO'd and my first thought was also to contact your credit card.

I missed the thread on how you won this "wonderful" cruise from Tavelocity. I tried searching and came up empty handed.
If you don't mind could you tell us again. Pretty please....

[peaches from georgia]

Have you contacted your friend who remained on the ship? I would think he would reimburse you immediately and I agree with the previous poster who said this would be a lot easier and faster way to get this resolved.

Sorry for your bad experience, but there is the occasional nightmare on all cruiselines, including HAL, as reported on many reviews on this HAL board. X is no better or worse than any other cruiseline in this regard and certainly is very comparable to HAL overall.

[tech]

Just a thought from my perspective.

The one problem I can see in Brian's friends reimbursing him may be the cash flow.

That is a chunk of charge to come up with if you were planning on using your credit card, then paying off over a period of time.

If his friends use their card to get "cash " to pay off Brian, then the interest rates are very, very high. They may have had a really low interest rate on the card for purchases.

Sometimes you get a card that has a short term low or no interest rate which you can use for the cruise and pay off before the special rate expires.

Having Celebrity reverse and re-bill is a way to keep the amounts on the correct cards.

It really is an easy process to do, having worked in the retail computer industry...we did it all the time.

It really needs to be corrected by Celebrity, if for no other reason than to make them aware of their mistake and correct procedures that allowed it to happen.

Not much to ask in my opinion.

[kryos]

I have to disagree with all those who say, "don't write a letter, they won't care".

Perhaps I was hasty in saying I wouldn't bother writing a letter ... but I still say they probably don't care. Let's be realistic. The cruise line executives read these boards. They'd be idiots not to. They are getting loads of market research data from these boards ... you'd better believe at least a few people are assigned to scan the posts.

As for Celebrity ... if I were the executive reading the boards for that line, I would have already addressed Brian's problem ... and would have contacted him to resolve it. Brian would have already posted by now saying that Celebrity came through for him ... and got everything straightened out.

Sure, I don't expect the cruise lines to jump through hoops every time someone says that they had a crappy cruise. So, I never would have expected them to contact Brian when he posted what a lousy experience he had. Hey, one person's lousy experience is another's heaven ... different strokes for different folks. Obviously, Brian's "stroke" is not Celebrity. But when he posted about this billing issue ... and the lack of responsiveness he experienced when he contacted Celebrity to resolve it ... I would have expected someone to be assigned to IMMEDIATELY look into the problem ... in order to see if it could be quickly resolved. They didn't do that ... at least not to my knowledge ... so I have no reason to expect that they will be any more responsive to Brian's letters.

That's why, if it was me ... and I had attempted to resolve the matter in a "gentlemanly" fashion ... as I would assume Brian did ... and got nowhere ... I'd just have my credit card company deal with it, deny the ENTIRE charge ... and then let Celebrity come back to me hat in hand to get the monies that they are entitled to.

Just my opinion ...

Blue skies ...

--rita

[dakrewser]

For those suggesting it would be easier for his friends to reimburse him - I don't think you're getting the point: it isn't the money, it's the principle of the thing. This cruise has been one fiasco after another. Each individual step could be "one of those things." A couple of them might be chalked up to coincidence. But this one has been Xtraordinarily Xasperating from the get-go. I do believe Brian is hoping against hope that finally, something will go right.

[Alexborngal]

I am so PO'd today I can barely think straight....

Checked my bank accounts today and discovered an unexpected charge on my account: over $1500 charged to me by X/Mercury yesterday!

If you recall, I checked myself off Mercury in SF on the 2nd day of the 11-day cruise I had won from X through Travelocity. After I checked out from the front desk and had returned to the room to gather my belongings to take down to the pier, they called and told me that they didn't have my charge number on file for my onboard expenses to which I replied that they had taken the number in Mexico - they could check on the laptops that they've left there and get it from there as I was not about to give them my number again to be used for lord-knows-what.

My friend Don, who was in the same room and also left that day had reviewed and signed off on the charges to be placed on the card that he'd registered as he checked out that am.

Since my other friend Scotty stayed aboard in our room and continued to Seattle (where he lives), he of course continued to charge items to the room. He too had supplied his own card for his shipboard expenses when we checked in.

When I called RCCL/X (the number listed on the charge description was the common reservations number - Ugh) I was eventually transferred over to a person in the Resolutions Department. She told me that there was quite a list of charges to my account (DUH) and suggested that maybe charges kept ringing up since I didn't check out at the front desk? Had I left my card in the room for my friend to use? I certainly didn't appreciate her asserting that my friend might be dishonest. She then suggested that they didn't have other cards on file, so they'd charged everything to me since I was the primary on the stateroom - to which I responded that that was ridiculous, as we all checked in and supplied our own cards, I've never had a problem with keeping accounts separate from travel partners on cruiseships before, and that the folks at the front desk had even told me upon checkout that they didnt have my account number on file!

She e-mailed me the account breakdown so that I could sort out which charges belonged to who - an excerpt of which is below:

5/8/2006 1 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/8/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $19.55 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 WINE CELLAR $46.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 1 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $12.59 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 LAUNDRY $12.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $4.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $27.43 (USD)
5/10/2006 2 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $100.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 SKY BAR $13.17 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $108.90 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $22.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 GIFT SHOP $3.99 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $5.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $32.78 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $2.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $20.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $6.84 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $5.69 (USD)

After scratching my head for a few minutes, I noticed a pattern to the dating and the relevance of the number between the date of the charge and the description: that little number corresponds to the individual who initiated the charge - I'm #1, Don is #2 and Scotty is #3. Why the heck those idiots in whatever office who run these charges couldn't figure that one out and apply the charges correctly absolutely baffles me!

I e-mailed and faxed the info back to my contact at their offices - I tried to call back my contact 2 times to confirm that she'd received the info, but the phone rang and rang and rang...... No Voicemail!

Finally got through to someone else in the department and explained the situation again - she 'couldn't' reverse the charge and apply the appropriate charge today (she had to take my charge number again to get me a credit back) - she has to run it up to some other level and get some kind of "approval" to correct their error - she said that I might get my refund tomorrow. Hopefully I'll hear back.....

My friends returned my calls today, and have offered to take care of this by paying me directly themselves, but I want X to make it right - that's THEIR job, not my friend's.

It was bad enough having a poor experience and getting sick on their ship - I've been considering writing RCCL/X telling them how poorly their product measures up - but this absolutely seals the deal: X and Travelocity are both getting letters from me alright...
:mad:

(I'm feeling like a King alright: King Louis XVI...)

Brian, I'm so sorry for your terrible experiences, both with the cruise and with their accounting department. Thanks so much for sharing. I had been considering a Celebrity Mexican cruise and, had I not read your and Scotty's reviews I might have taken it. Thank you for my not going on a horrible cruise. We'll stick primarily with HAL. Wish you luck in getting rid of all the inconveniences of this trip. Cancelling the charges with your credit card company is a terrific idea. Good show!!

[Nancyquilts]

Brian - Glad you're following up with X on this - it's their mistake and they should correct it. Take a deep breath, enjoy the weekend, and keep us posted. Nancy

[Navy_Chief]

I have to disagree with all those who say, "don't write a letter, they won't care".

I am sure there is someone at RCCL/Celebrity who would be interested in hearing this whole sorry tale. I'd suggest Celebrity's "brand president" Dan Hanrahan for starters. (Oh, and make sure it's a paper letter - e-mail doesn't have the same impact!) And maybe RCCL CEO Richard Fain too.

If nothing else, they will care because it is not in their best interest to have bad things written about them on a site like this! I am sure it will not be lost on them how much potential business they've lost as a result of this fiasco... Not just from Brian, but from people who have read his posts.

First, it's a shame you wound up with a huge hassle over this Brian. I have to agree with Doug though, X certainly doesn't want the bad press in the fact you got sick and had to leave early or that the accountants they hiered were fugitives from Enron. Why not cc the news media in on it, they seem to enjoy ripping up the cruise industry and seeing how they (Celebrity) just had one of their ships captains busted for (of all things) DUI by the Coast Guard. :eek:

It sounds like your on the right track though. You card company squashed the payment so that's a good thing. Personnally, when I cruise, I feed the Front Desk Travelers Checks for my on board account and track the daily spending Vs giving them a credit card that they could pull this very same trick with. Of course, I only have a mere 2 cruises under my belt on civilian cruise ships. Lots on the ones painted gray.:D

I hope this post cheers you up some Brian.:)

[bepsf]

Thanks you guys for your support.

Yeah, its been a crappy couple of days: after several phone calls Thursday and Friday, I finally had to demand to speak w/ a manager in the resolution department who eventually understood that I wasn't going to simply accept "maybe sometime Tuesday or Wednesday". Since I had used my debit card (yeah, I know I probably shouldn't have, but I'd never had a problem of this type in 5 cruises) they've overdrawn me which has caused several other items to hit my account & recieve overage charges.

Then they had to contact Scotty and Don to get their OK's to charge their accounts w/ the amounts shown (Don't go there - I already asked the question myself as to why they couldnt go into their records and deal w/ it themselves...) and finally she called me back and told me that they were running the chargeback Friday afternoon. That remains to be seen, because of course it was too late on a Friday to show up on my account, so I'm left on a long holiday weekend w/ little cash.

[Paragraph removed.]

ABGal -- I'm glad that you feel that my experience has helped you - It makes me feel better knowing that this isn't all for nothing - becasue I almost feel like I'm being punished for winning that stupid prize.

[babyher]

Brian,

Sorry that you are going through all this, especially after having such a lousy cruise to boot.

Hopefully you are making some head way in getting this thing resolved.

I have never been through this kind of thing with a cruise line, but have had similar situations where it took 100 phone calls and 100 transfers to 100 knot heads and 100 re tellings of my problem to said knotheads before anything got done........ but it did eventually get done, so have faith:)

I will say you absolutely have to "demand" . You have to make an annoying pain in the you know what out of yourself and keep following up on this. Like they say, the squeeky wheel gets the grease.

And yes definately always speak to a supervisor or manager or whatever the higher up on duty is called.

Good luck
Keep us posted :)

[tech]

Brian,

I didn't pick up on the fact that it was your Debit card. No wonder you wanted it resolved quickly.

I don't think there are many of us that could stand that big a hit to our immediate cash flow.

Then to have other payments encounter trouble with the associated penalty fees...this is just too much.

It is a constant amazement to me that some of the people you contact to resolve a problem like this ...are so cavalier about it. It sure would help if they could think of it as their "own money ".

As far as the Celebrity Boards, I cannot imagine that any of them in the same situation would not be upset and yelling.

It is just more fun to "pile on " you in the group mentality.

You had every right to post the problem there, you were just trying to spread the word so that others could beware. Too bad they do not understand that and attribute so many other motives to your post.

Until there "Ox is gored " they will continue to deny that X is having major problems with their product.

We sailed with them starting over 10 years ago and in our opinion there has been a great decline in the product.

[HeatherInFlorida]

This is a mess and so often messes just get messier. But there can't be anyone here who thinks even for a second that this couldn't happen on any cruise line at any time. It's fun to keep slamming Celebrity, but let's be honest. Haven't most of us had stuff like this happen in many venues in life? I sure have.

But I sure don't blame you for being upset, Brian. I would be furious and I would definitely write a letter (not email) to the appropriate individual so they have an honest to goodness hard copy account of what happened.

All that said, there's no question that someone in your group sure knows how to have one heck of a time if that was only page 1!!!!!:D Yikes!

Just remember, you'll get it all ironed out and someday this will be a distant memory.

As for those who say "I'll sure never cruise Celebrity", great. But you're missing out on an amazing cruise experience. I will continue to cruise Celebrity as often as possible. This is one person's bad (dare I say "horrific":o ?) experience on one cruise ship. Let's not get nutty.

[peaches from georgia]

This is exactly why you can't ever use your Debit card for an open-ended transaction. Mistakes like X's happen and you also are leaving yourself open to being wiped out by 'non-mistakes'. There is no recourse through your bank when you use your debit card nor a credit card company to represent you in a dispute and reverse charges.

Of course you know that now, but everyone reading your sad tale should remember this if nothing else. And, yes, I worked in banking and saw this happen numerous times. Sure X made a mistake. but it would have been much easier to rectify if you had used a credit card. Glad it worked out for you; it often doesn't.

[RevNeal]

Sometimes people just don't have any option other than a debit card.
When such has the case for me -- in the past there were times when I had insufficient credit but sufficient money -- I have always settled my account in cash, making sure that the settlement is FINAL and that there is no number for them to try and use to get more out of me. Having them sign off on a bill as "final" should protect one in such circumstances. I've not had a problem in the past.

On the Noordam this last Feb/March I settled my bill with cash (blackjack table winnings) and had the purser sign the form indicating the account was paid and closed before I left the front desk.

[Navy_Chief]

Excellent advice Greg.

[Host Walt]

Excellent advice Greg.
What?

Winning at blackjack? or paying in cash? (just kidding)

[gizmo]

This is a mess and so often messes just get messier. But there can't be anyone here who thinks even for a second that this couldn't happen on any cruise line at any time. It's fun to keep slamming Celebrity, but let's be honest. Haven't most of us had stuff like this happen in many venues in life? I sure have.

As for those who say "I'll sure never cruise Celebrity", great. But you're missing out on an amazing cruise experience. I will continue to cruise Celebrity as often as possible. This is one person's bad (dare I say "horrific":o ?) experience on one cruise ship. Let's not get nutty.

Agree. This is not just a "X" thing. It can happen on ANY cruise line.

I don't know why the slamming of X continues.

:D Will someone please pass the cheese ?
I will gladly pass the chees. :D

[Navy_Chief]

What?

Winning at blackjack? or paying in cash? (just kidding)

LoL if you got the luck, why not? I'm not that lucky so I'll have to bring the cash with me :( We can't all have a Guardian Angel or Upgrade Farry hanging in our back pocket. :D Maybe we can look at it this way in Greg's case, the lord givith at the Black Jack table and HAL takith away.... :eek: There must be a sermon in there somewhere...... ;)

[sail7seas]

I don't know why the slamming of X continues.


I will gladly pass the chees. :D


When you pass the Cheese, I'll have a bit of merlot if you don't mind. ;)


Why wouldn't there be slamming? Why shouldn't there be slammiong? I think it's called Freedom of Speech.

On the same page as the lengthy thread detailing the nightmare Brian endured from the get go and all the way until today as a result of "winning", there is a thread slamming HAL's rules re: Young Teens Using Machines in the Gym.

People slam HAL here on the HAL Board; so why can't they also slam "X"?

Does no one on the "X" Board ever slam a cruise someone took on an "X" ship? Or are they all constantly raving about how perfect it is? Does no one on the "X" Board ever slam a cruise or something about HAL? Or do they always rave if they happen to 'pass over' to HAL ships? Or do none of them ever, ever step foot on an HAL ship?

I don't have a clue. I never go to that board as I have no interest in "X". Been there; did it about 5 times and have no desire to do it again.

I won't say never but I will say there would have to be a very compelling reason.

I see no reason (as long as the guidelines and rules of this board are followed) for anyone to restrain themselves from knocking anything/any ship/any cruiseline they wish......including HAL and "X" and any other they may care to slam.

JMHO...... :)

[gizmo]

When you pass the Cheese, I'll have a bit of merlot if you don't mind.





I don't mind one bit, there is plenty of whine around here.


Next time "your Maasadam" just happens to get slammed, I will have to look up this thead and bring up "Freedom of Speech". :)

[sail7seas]

Oh my Goodness, Giz......

In all the years I have been on this Board, all the thousands of posts I've read and written, you surely know how many hundreds of negative comments I have read (and, indeed, ;) have even written a few myself ;) ) re: "MY" Maasdam, and all the other 'dam' ships.

Yes,,,,,,,, Freedom of Speech is what I consider it. And please bring it up often. I treasure it.

Thanks for recognizing that.

Happy Memorial Day......as Americans, this weekend, honor those who fought to preserve that Freedom for Us!

[gizmo]

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing.
We have our flag out and red poppies to wear tomorrow. :)


I am watching the PBS Memorial Day special honoring all those that died for this country. Excellent show.

[sail7seas]

Freedom of Speech is a wonderful thing.
We have our flag out and red poppies to wear tomorrow. :)


I am watching the PBS Memorial Day special honoring all those that died for this country. Excellent show.

Good Going!!! How wonderful hear about such great Patriotism. :cool:

[Quendryth]

I too am a fan of both cruiselines - HAL & Celebrity. They have their good points & bad points which vary from ship to ship, itinerary to itinerary, captain to captain! The list is endless so why lambast either of these lines. To say you "have no intentions of ever sailing Celebrity" is not realistic because like Brian, you too could win a free cruise on X!!!!! I do not know too many individuals who love cruising to turn away from a free one!

I have enjoyed ALL my cruises on both these lines because I went with an open mind, knowing "stuff" happens, on ships, in hotels/resorts on land, all inclusive vacations, backyard BBQ's, etc. So, relax and enjoy life. Think of all the military personnel who are giving us the freedom to cruise or not to cruise - on HAl or X or even Carnival on this Memorial Day weekend.

I'm done & your'e not! (I'm sure)

Love to all & to all a good night!

Faith

[kryos]

Agree. This is not just a "X" thing. It can happen on ANY cruise line.

Absolutely true. Mistakes and misunderstandings occur ... but it's how the line handles them that leaves the lasting impression. In this case, apparently Celebrity wasn't very forthcoming in resolving the problem, and that's why the "slamming" of X.

As for the "quality" of the cruise ... I don't think anyone here has "slammed" X just because Brian had a lousy cruise on Celebrity. Any one of us could have a lousy experience on a given line, including HAL, while the next poster in the thread writes a glowing review of her experiences on the exact same cruise. The cruise experience itself is always subjective, but the impressions left when a customer service department fails to give service ... those are what causes a line to get "slammed."

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Ine]

This is a mess and so often messes just get messier. But there can't be anyone here who thinks even for a second that this couldn't happen on any cruise line at any time. It's fun to keep slamming Celebrity, but let's be honest. Haven't most of us had stuff like this happen in many venues in life? I sure have.

But I sure don't blame you for being upset, Brian. I would be furious and I would definitely write a letter (not email) to the appropriate individual so they have an honest to goodness hard copy account of what happened.

All that said, there's no question that someone in your group sure knows how to have one heck of a time if that was only page 1!!!!!:D Yikes!

Just remember, you'll get it all ironed out and someday this will be a distant memory.

As for those who say "I'll sure never cruise Celebrity", great. But you're missing out on an amazing cruise experience. I will continue to cruise Celebrity as often as possible. This is one person's bad (dare I say "horrific":o ?) experience on one cruise ship. Let's not get nutty.

Thanks Heather for this message. Like you we have sailed both HAL and Celebrity and loved them both. We had great cruises, very nice staff, good meals etc. on both lines.
It is too easy to state never to cruise Celebrity if one has never been on board.,
Like I stated in other postings too, no cruise-line is perfect, things can and will go wrong on any line.

[Navy_Chief]

I too am a fan of both cruiselines - HAL & Celebrity. They have their good points & bad points which vary from ship to ship, itinerary to itinerary, captain to captain! The list is endless so why lambast either of these lines. To say you "have no intentions of ever sailing Celebrity" is not realistic because like Brian, you too could win a free cruise on X!!!!! I do not know too many individuals who love cruising to turn away from a free one!

I have enjoyed ALL my cruises on both these lines because I went with an open mind, knowing "stuff" happens, on ships, in hotels/resorts on land, all inclusive vacations, backyard BBQ's, etc. So, relax and enjoy life. Think of all the military personnel who are giving us the freedom to cruise or not to cruise - on HAl or X or even Carnival on this Memorial Day weekend.

I'm done & your'e not! (I'm sure)

Love to all & to all a good night!

Faith

Faith you have a very good point. Sure, I'd take the freebee but I'll stick to my usual MO and give em cash at the Front Desk to put on my shipboard account, track the spending, and make them acknowedge that it's paid in full at the end just like any other cruise I take. I like to avoid the problems Brian faced. :D That's my freedom as a US Fighting Man (Retired Navy) to treat all curise lines the same. :D And it was my pleasure to serve this great nation. If asked, I would do it all over again in a heartbeat, any chance to go to sea without paying for the privailege is a welcome FreeBee as well. :D A toast to all those still on eternal patrol at sea

[sail7seas]

To say you "have no intentions of ever sailing Celebrity" is not realistic because like Brian, you too could win a free cruise on X!!!!! I do not know too many individuals who love cruising to turn away from a free one!

Faith



If you are referring to my post, (?)

Above, I wrote:

I won't say never but I will say there would have to be a very compelling reason.

Winning a free cruise might be that 'compelling reason' :) I referred to. That's what makes my statement 'realistic' for Me. Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oh for heaven's sake, people!!! Let's all get a grip:) !

Personally I could care less whether someone slams this cruise line or that cruise line. But what I have a huge problem with is the reaction of the reader who says that since this one lousy experience occurred, they will therefore never dare darken the door of that cruise line.

This is just plain (if you will forgive me:o ) silly!!

Bad experiences can happen on any cruise line to any one of us at any time. We all have our favorite line. I certainly understand and recognize Sail's opinion of HAL because she literally has a long established relationship with the line. She simply loves it and see's no reason to change ... if it ain't broke, why fix it? Makes sense.

But I just don't love HAL nearly as much and have no relationship with them whatsoever. But I do still think it's a great line. I prefer Celebrity, but that doesn't mean I expect everyone else to feel as I do.

What I do know to be true is that many new people come on these boards everyday. They don't know that there are certain posters who will fight for their personal preference even if it means slamming every other cruise line on the board. As inexperienced cruisers they will read threads like this and think "OMG! I'm never going to sail with this cruise line _____________(fill in the blank)".

I think that's a poor message to be sending. There should be some balance. So every single time I see a thread like this I will post on it in similar fashion. It's my contribution to this cruise board. I can't do much, but I sure can do that :) . You can disagree with me, but I honestly think it would be difficult to do so.

And I will never force anyone down any particular gangplank. There's a cruise line out there for just about everyone ... you just have to find your niches and then realize that things can go wrong no matter which line you may choose.

[cruzin girl]

On my last cruise with Princess I paid my credit card account off the night before the cruise ended. (at least I thought that I did). Low and behold when I checked my statement there was a charge of $6 something for what I do not have a clue. I should have called Princess but I didn't. I am sure that mistakes happen on all of them.

[bepsf]

Heather --

You know I always respect your opinion even if I disagree - mostly due to the fairness of your argument.

I must say tho that the statement 'one will never cruise w/ a certain company again' isnt quite as silly as one might think.
Let's say for example that you bought a Pontiac from your local dealer and had numerous problems from day one - from the idiot salesman to systems failing and parts falling off the car to being lied to by the service department then taking a financial loss when selling the car to replace it with something more reliable. I could certainly understand why someone might say "Never again, Pontiac", even though we all know that they produce thousands of largely trouble-free cars a year. Well, a cruise is a similar prospect in that it requires an investment of lots of time and treasure. One would hate to have a repeat bad experience - so why tempt fate by making the same "mistake"?

Sadly Heather, your tactfullness and objectivity isn't shared by quite a few folks who live over there on the X boards - It's no wonder you came to play in our sandbox ;)

[elmorejj]

Heather, got to agree with everything you said........jean:cool:

[Sayyadina]

Out of morbid curiousity, I went over to the Celebrity boards to see if you posted this new twist in your Mercury experience there. I didn't see it, may have missed it. Did you?

While there, I noticed on the first page 3 negative threads (1 about why Celebrity bills itself as a 5 star line when its not, 2 about why the ships are in such disrepair), 1 about the captain's DUI, and a great thread about how great the Prinsendam is:

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=339238

I notice a lot of people 'over there' are negative about the Mercury. Sorry, why can't we be, too?

As for, OMG I'll never cruise with _______! I can say that unless I hear much better things about Celebrity, I will never cruise with them. People who've sworn by them have been saying they've gone downhill. I had a wonderful time on HAL, and all the Celebrity reviews I've read just don't match up.

And, as one of my favorite authors said: Human beings, who are almost unique in having the ability to learn from the experience of others, are also remarkable for their apparent disinclination to do so. -Douglas Adams

[HeatherInFlorida]

Sayyadina, you just proved my point. Thank you. A few Celebrity cruisers have said the line has gone downhill, but I'm happy to report not most. You can certainly choose not to cruise on Celebrity, but you should never base that decision solely on what you read here on CC. I'm guessing you missed my review ... there's a link in my signature:) .

I am here to tell you I have cruised for many years on many different cruise lines. Celebrity still ranks at the top of my list and I just cruised on the Summit in October 2005. That's a pretty recent experience.

Brian, while I can't argue with you on some points, you may have missed my earlier argument. You may choose not to cruise Celebrity based on your experience ... I'd just hate to see someone new to cruising base their negative decision wholly on your experience.

Yet people posted right on this thread that they've never cruised Celebrity and now they never will. I'm just saying "stuff happens" everywhere ... don't throw the baby out with the bathwater:) .

Also, a car is a machine. A cruiseline's service, etc., is not. You could use the argument that many people have posted horrendous experiences with mechanical problems on the Maasdam so you might choose not to cruise that particular ship. Makes some sense although it wouldn't keep me off the ship.

And while I can understand you personally don't want to cruise Mercury (which some people love and some people hate), I still wish you'd try the M class Celebrity ships. I just know those ships are definitely your level of style and besides I would so love to read you eating crow:D .

'Nuff said! (by me anyway;) ).

[NoNoNanette]

You may choose not to cruise Celebrity based on your experience ... I'd just hate to see someone new to cruising base their negative decision wholly on your experience.

I've got a cruise buddy who did Ensenada to Honolulu. It was her first X cruise, and she LOVED IT.

I've got another cruise buddy who tells me that the ships, sheets, towels, etc. are all getting shoddy, and she'd hesitate to book another cruise with them.

I'm still looking forward to trying the line. I think that just like other situations, a cruise is very fluid and changeable. What is "wonderful" to one individual, might not be another's cup of tea.

We've always been of the thought that WE make our own FUN. And honestly, have never had a "bad" vacation, whether it be a cruise or a land-based trip.

[tech]

I wish we could "Virtual Cruise " that way we could try out some new cruiselines without the expense :D

It is fun to try another cruiseline but kinda scary at the same time.

You read the pros and cons, try to find a line that you think will be right for you.

If like most people, you cannot cruise all that often, you hate to make a mistake in your choice.

But it is really difficult at times to figure out what to book.

Stay with tried and true or venture forth to the unknown ?:confused:

We have stayed with HAL, Princess and Celebrity.

So if we strayed, watching our pocketbook and not going too crazy, where would we go ?

One hears horror stories about Carnival, NCL, Costa ?

Really difficult to make that step.

Cruising still remains our favorite way to get away.:)

[Atomica]

Short coastal cruises are sometimes a great way to see if a line 'fits' you. Granted, it may not be the 7 day experience, but it should still give you a taste for the line. That's how I found HAL & the Oosterdam :)

[Navy_Chief]

I'm more than willing to go on any cruise if it gets me out to sea. I'm an open minded person and I'm not that hard to please. So far, I've sailed Carnival and I've sailed HAL. I had a good time on a 5 day Carnival, enough so that I wanted to take another cruise. In steps a 16 day HAL and of course, the experiance was totaly different (It was a great time on Rotterdam). Our next cruise is on Noordam as a matter of conveniance and the crowd fits us, my brother and his DW, and my parents (we don't run with the wild crowd :D). Now the next might be on NCL or maybe X, doesn't matter, they all get treated the same when it comes to the shipboard account, they get AMEX travelers cheques or cash up front so the thing that happened to Brian, doesn't happen to me. I doubt that one bad opinion is going to steer folks away, heck how many times have we read posts from folks in their 30s that have been pushed away from HAL by TAs just to find out the TA was wrong?

[mechcc]

I am here to tell you I have cruised for many years on many different cruise lines. Celebrity still ranks at the top of my list and I just cruised on the Summit in October 2005. That's a pretty recent experience.

And while I can understand you personally don't want to cruise Mercury (which some people love and some people hate), I still wish you'd try the M class Celebrity ships. I just know those ships are definitely your level of style and besides I would so love to read you eating crow:D .

'Nuff said! (by me anyway;) ).

Heather -First I must say that I have always appreciated and valued your opinion. I am also praying that my Summit experience through the Panama Canal coming up in April is as wonderful as yours. With the recent news of how the Pods fail unpredictably on the Summit - praying is a truthful statement. You say M class is Brian's class of ship - are you willing to eat crow should Brian take you up on your offer and suffer the forseen mechanical difficulties and get the absurb compensation from X of $200 shipboard credit while they are sueing the manufactures of the pods for multi millions?

Brian had a bad experience with X - I don't blame him for lambasting them on this forum. That's what it's for and that's why the cruiselines read these boards.

[HeatherInFlorida]

............You say M class is Brian's class of ship - are you willing to eat crow should Brian take you up on your offer and suffer the forseen mechanical difficulties and get the absurb compensation from X of $200 shipboard credit while they are sueing the manufactures of the pods for multi millions?

.....................

Sure, absolutely. I eat crow constantly. You have to when you're as opinionated as I am. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong. Happens all the timehttp://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05fa4/01. If Brian ever does decide to cruise M class and has an equally horrendous experience, my bad ... I'm wrong. But I will be surprised.

Have to admit I have absolutely no idea what a "pod" is or that they've been failing on the Summit. Certainly there was no such problem when we cruised. The only problem we had with the Canal is the problems Panama is having running the darned thing. But that's a whole other story ... nothing to do with Celebrity.

As for your last comment, I can't tell if that's directed to me. Just in case it is, I do want to point out that I never posted or ever said Brian shouldn't post his experience. I absolutely support that he should. I also feel that people like me should post theirs so a balance is offered. My problem is with people's "all bad" reaction to his post. Brian knows this and we've discussed it quite a bit. No way my posts are a criticism of Brian.

[mechcc]

Sure, absolutely. I eat crow constantly. You have to when you're as opinionated as I am. I'm always willing to admit when I'm wrong. Happens all the timehttp://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05fa4/01. If Brian ever does decide to cruise M class and has an equally horrendous experience, my bad ... I'm wrong. But I will be surprised.

Have to admit I have absolutely no idea what a "pod" is or that they've been failing on the Summit. Certainly there was no such problem when we cruised. The only problem we had with the Canal is the problems Panama is having running the darned thing. But that's a whole other story ... nothing to do with Celebrity.

As for your last comment, I can't tell if that's directed to me. Just in case it is, I do want to point out that I never posted or ever said Brian shouldn't post his experience. I absolutely support that he should. I also feel that people like me should post theirs so a balance is offered. My problem is with people's "all bad" reaction to his post. Brian knows this and we've discussed it quite a bit. No way my posts are a criticism of Brian.

No the last comment was not a personal directed comment at you. My feeling is that yes, anyone can post a bad review of any cruiseline here based on personal experience, at the same time the poster of a bad comment on any cruiseline should not be subjected to a dismissal of their opinion because it does not agree with the cheerleader of that cruiseline. Many new cruisers come to this forum to learn which cruise line is for them. Same as someone contacting consumer agencies for advice on air conditioning, heating, roofing, etc.

Please don't take this to a personal level and say I was critzing you critizing Brian on a personal level. That's beneth both of us.

Since I have been reading the X boards since booking an X cruise, the pods have been a mechanical disaster for X and X is suing the manufactures because of their loss of income due to the mechanical faults of the pods. Please read up on the X problems with this issue before you try to totally dismiss mine or anyone else's opinion.

[HeatherInFlorida]

................

Please don't take this to a personal level and say I was critzing you critizing Brian on a personal level. That's beneth both of us.

..................

Maggie, I did not take it to a personal level. I've made that mistake in the past and I try my darndest now not to do that. I think it was an honest mistake for me to assume your comment was directed to me as the rest of your post very clearly was. So I said "just in case", I wanted to respond.

Since I've said all I need or want to say on this subject, that's that.

[mechcc]

Heather -First I must say that I have always appreciated and valued your opinion. I am also praying that my Summit experience through the Panama Canal coming up in April is as wonderful as yours. With the recent news of how the Pods fail unpredictably on the Summit - praying is a truthful statement. You say M class is Brian's class of ship - are you willing to eat crow should Brian take you up on your offer and suffer the forseen mechanical difficulties and get the absurb compensation from X of $200 shipboard credit while they are sueing the manufactures of the pods for multi millions?

Brian had a bad experience with X - I don't blame him for lambasting them on this forum. That's what it's for and that's why the cruiselines read these boards.

Heather - I go back to my original post - there was nothing attacking you in my post, in fact I stated that I valued your opinion. I only stated that the M class ship on X has had predictable problems recently and that Brian had a bad experience on X and should feel free to express that experience. If people decide not to sail on X based on Brian's experience, then that is their choice. Brian is an experienced cruiser, as are you. You have just as much right to counter Brian's experience as Brian does expressing it. That said, I have the right to state that X has had problems lately with the M class ships and do not deserve your dismissal of my opinion as being totally uninformed. For anyone who has have a brain and investigates the claim on their own will find that the M Class X ships do have a problem with their pods.

[GMoney]

Heather - I appreciate and agree with your posts. While I may sometimes have a different opinion than you, I think your bottom line, no-nonsense approach is refreshing without being snide or combative.

Beyond that, and back to the larger issue, the fact that a debit card was used surprised me a little, especially when the OP mentioned the "Credit Card company" often, but I now better understand the pain of the OP. VISA and most major banks have protections built into the process to provide provisional credits on unauthorized charges (provided certain criteria are met) within 48 hours, if not sooner, and it sounds like Wells Fargo is honoring this. These protections are valid for both credit and debit cards, but most people are obviously more exposed if there is a debit card issue b/c their actual cash flow is impacted. If Wells Fargo processed the chargeback on Friday afternoon, then hopefully the OP has some relief by now, as most processing happens in batch 7 days a week.

Personally, I never use my debit card for anything more than withdrawing cash, but these are individual choices. For those of you who prefer to use debit cards, it might be a good idea to brush up on exactly how your bank handles such issues. For those who may not have a credit card, keep in mind there are many similar stored value products available that could suit your needs - VISA gift cards, VISA Buxx, Visa TravelMoney - to name a few. They come at a price and often carry fees, but they can also provide a nice alternative, some protection and some peace of mind.

Going back to post #60 from the OP, I think it's unfair to expect that folks on the X boards would remain objective and tactful (though I suppose tactful might be nice :) ). The OP chose to post on the X board, then place the same post on the HAL board. You could make an arugment that the original post itself was not objective or tactful. I'm always confounded when folks post to an opinion board, and then voice concerns when people express opinions back. It's a two-way street, and you have to take the good with the bad on a open forum like this one.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Today I discussed this with some other ship enthusiasts I had lunch with aboard the delightful SAGA RUBY (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?p=6754246#post6754246). I mentioned that I had heard quite a few very negative things about Celebrity lately (I know a few other people who have had rather poor experiences lately, though not on the level of Brian's), and was rather suprised at that.

They were surprised too - but it turned out that like me, none had been on Celebrity in a long time.

Anyhow, I'm not sure what my point is here ;) , but we were all left wondering how much Celebrity has changed in the past few years.

[Sunshine91]

Like Sayyadina, I too popped over to the X board for a bit. When Brian first posted his Mercury review I was curious about the X-faithful reaction. At that point some of those folks were not only unsupportive, they were nasty & derogative. This past weekend, I thought to myself that all the X-folks can't be all-happy all the time so I took another peek. They're not. There are several threads complaining about various things that X doesn't get right (normal). And the nastiness towards each other continues. I couldn't believe some of the comments I was reading. There was a thread started a couple of weeks ago about the Summit's pod problems & missed ports. The moderators actually posted a "behave yourself & be nice to each other" comment. Unreal. Here folks are mostly pleasant to each other. If one feels a little slighted they simply ask if the comment was intended that way. Usually it wasn't. With this form of communication it's just sometimes hard to tell. Well, over there on X, those nasty comments, there's no mistaking what they mean.

Brian - Just curious. Since X charged all of the room's expenses to your card, did Don & Scotty walk off the ship without paying a dime?

[mechcc]

Heather - I appreciate and agree with your posts. While I may sometimes have a different opinion than you, I think your bottom line, no-nonsense approach is refreshing without being snide or combative.

Beyond that, and back to the larger issue, the fact that a debit card was used surprised me a little, especially when the OP mentioned the "Credit Card company" often, but I now better understand the pain of the OP. VISA and most major banks have protections built into the process to provide provisional credits on unauthorized charges (provided certain criteria are met) within 48 hours, if not sooner, and it sounds like Wells Fargo is honoring this. These protections are valid for both credit and debit cards, but most people are obviously more exposed if there is a debit card issue b/c their actual cash flow is impacted. If Wells Fargo processed the chargeback on Friday afternoon, then hopefully the OP has some relief by now, as most processing happens in batch 7 days a week.

Personally, I never use my debit card for anything more than withdrawing cash, but these are individual choices. For those of you who prefer to use debit cards, it might be a good idea to brush up on exactly how your bank handles such issues. For those who may not have a credit card, keep in mind there are many similar stored value products available that could suit your needs - VISA gift cards, VISA Buxx, Visa TravelMoney - to name a few. They come at a price and often carry fees, but they can also provide a nice alternative, some protection and some peace of mind.

Going back to post #60 from the OP, I think it's unfair to expect that folks on the X boards would remain objective and tactful (though I suppose tactful might be nice :) ). The OP chose to post on the X board, then place the same post on the HAL board. You could make an arugment that the original post itself was not objective or tactful. I'm always confounded when folks post to an opinion board, and then voice concerns when people express opinions back. It's a two-way street, and you have to take the good with the bad on a open forum like this one.

Exactly! 2-way street - Good with Bad - Don't condem those that dare express opinions that go against the grain. An honest, fair debat is great; a forum that worships only long standing members opinions and rejects new expressions differing form the self appointed experts is doomed to failure.

My personal feeling is that this was a place for equal debate, a place for the cruiselines to learn their customer's expectations. Over the last year, I have learned, conform or be personally attacked. And the cruiselines aren't paying as much attention to this board as before. They want honest expression, not the feelings of few who try to control others. Anyone ever wonder why Carnival doesn't try to match the give aways RCCL does with their "meet and greet"?.

[JLC@SD]

Brian - Just curious. Since X charged all of the room's expenses to your card, did Don & Scotty walk off the ship without paying a dime?[/FONT]
Those were my thoughts.

Certainly they got off the ship..............knowing their payment was in the neighborhood of 1,500 short.............and probably said nothing...............since Brian claims he got blindsided with the charge........:)

Glad I don't have friends like that.

[mechcc]

Those were my thoughts.

Certainly they got off the ship..............knowing their payment was in the neighborhood of 1,500 short.............and probably said nothing...............since Brian claims he got blindsided with the charge........:)

Glad I don't have friends like that.

Okay, I'm calling foul! To blame Brian's friends for X's mistake is being a little shortsited. Inexperienced cruisers may, in all honesty, think that the cruiseline will charge their account presented at boarding, at the end of the cruise.

Is this another attempt in blaming X's shortcomings on Brian and his friends?

[JLC@SD]

Okay, I'm calling foul! To blame Brian's friends for X's mistake didn't say that is being a little shortsited. Inexperienced cruisers may, in all honesty, think that the cruiseline will charge their account presented at boarding, at the end of the cruise.

Is this another attempt in blaming X's shortcomings on Brian and his friends? didn't say this either

All I said was Brian has irresponsible friends.......When they charged this:

5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/8/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 LAUNDRY $12.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $21.85 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 MARTINI BAR $4.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $2.24 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 DINING ROOM/CHAMPAGNE $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 2 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $27.43 (USD)
5/10/2006 2 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $100.00 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 SKY BAR $13.17 (USD)
5/8/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $10.93 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $108.90 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $36.30 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 AQUA SPA $22.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 GIFT SHOP $3.99 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $5.75 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 TASTINGS BAR $1.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $32.78 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 MARTINI BAR $2.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 CASINO ENTERTAINMENT $20.00 (USD)
5/9/2006 3 NAVIGATOR DISCO/LOUNGE $6.84 (USD)


per day and it doesn't show up on their bills and they say nothing to Brian....that is why he got blindsided.

[bepsf]

As you know, your shipboard account charge doesn't happen till a few days after you disembark the ship.

Don and I signed off on our charges before we left the ship in SF May 10. Scotty received a statement before he left the ship at the end of the cruise and tells me that he also tried to rectify the billing before he left the ship Friday before last, as it was all posted to my account for some unknown reason. We three did our part - X clearly screwed up.

BTW -- I may have posted this before, but apparently WF didn't get the reversal in time to post before the end of business Friday, so I was left with no cash this weekend. Fortunately, Don being the pal he is, insisted on sending me some pocket-dinero via PayPal.

I'm looking forward to waking up in the AM to see if in fact X did process a reversal Friday afternoon, because if they didn't there's gonna be a mushroom cloud in SF visible from the RCCL offices in Miami...
:cool:

[Bramcruiser]

This past weekend, I thought to myself that all the X-folks can't be all-happy all the time so I took another peek. They're not. There are several threads complaining about various things that X doesn't get right (normal). And the nastiness towards each other continues. I couldn't believe some of the comments I was reading. There was a thread started a couple of weeks ago about the Summit's pod problems & missed ports. The moderators actually posted a "behave yourself & be nice to each other" comment. Unreal. Here folks are mostly pleasant to each other.

Well Sunshine I thought pretty much the same thing - that the Celebrity board just appeared to be nasty overall. However, I find there are times that a certain group of people or a certain mood sweeps over a particular board and hijacks the whole tone of the place. Then, miraculously it clears up and goes back to being - er, normal! For a while, I thought the Cunard board was full of snobs who look down on people but a backlash from others who felt the same turned the board around and now its just as friendly and helpful as the HAL board. So, I am not so sure that the Celebrity board is regularly this particularly nasty. Although the bitterness I've seen over there these days is perhaps the worst I have seen. I've seen HAL have its little fights but nothing so widesweeping thankfully. (Knocking on wood here!) If there is a point to all of this - he he he:) - is that the bickering over there will likely die down and life will return to normal. Never sailed Celebrity, was once willing, now a bit hesitant, but too caught up on other cruises on other lines to worry about them. Hopefully, the normal will rise up and take control again. Its okay to say no to unreasonable behaviour and unrealistic demands.

[gizmo]

Have to admit I have absolutely no idea what a "pod" is or that they've been failing on the Summit. Certainly there was no such problem when we cruised.


The pods are "azipods" and to make it simple they drive the ship.

X has had major problems with them from the very beginning. There are techy explainations on the X board. Something breaks on the pods every couple of years. X has to cancel a cruise to get it fixed. I think I read that the manufacturer keeps trying something new, but nothing has worked to date.

The Summit just had a pod break again and all h*** broke loose on the ship.

[HeatherInFlorida]

...............- there was nothing attacking you in my post, in fact I stated that I valued your opinion. ........................ ............... I have the right to state that X has had problems lately with the M class ships and do not deserve your dismissal of my opinion as being totally uninformed. For anyone who has have a brain and investigates the claim on their own will find that the M Class X ships do have a problem with their pods.

Maggie, my confusion continues. I never said you attacked me:) ! I don't think you did. I just wanted to make sure I was clear that I have never negated Brian's experience in any way.

Nor did I suggest you shouldn't post that X is having problems. In fact, I said I have no idea whether they are or not. Not having any Celebrity cruises planned, I have not been researching in any way.

And I certainly never "dismissed" your opinion or tell you that you're uninformed. Where do you see that? When I said "that's that" I simply meant I had nothing more to say. Still here I am again:o .

This is all so silly. I said we should offer a balance here so people can judge for themselves. On Brian's other thread about this cruise someone has linked their review of the very same cruise with a totally different experience. Balance is good.

Gizmo, many thanks for that explanation. We were just lucky, I guess, not to cruise when the "pods" broke down!

Bramcruiser, you are so right. Every board goes through this sort of thing from time to time. This board has sometimes turned "horrific";) ... I have noticed a very cliquey atmosphere on the Celebrity board from time to time, but I have to also give credit to all the help and info I've received there.

Remember, too, that the Celebrity board has different hosts who handle uprisings differently than our hosts. In fact, they "allow" a lot more bickering over there. When that much nastiness rears its head here, it's generally removed returning this board to calm. It's one of the reasons (as Brian says) I "play" in this sandbox:D .

[Quendryth]

If you are referring to my post, (?)

Above, I wrote:



Winning a free cruise might be that 'compelling reason' :) I referred to. That's what makes my statement 'realistic' for Me. Obviously, I can't speak for anyone else.







No I was not referring to your post.

[Bramcruiser]

Remember, too, that the Celebrity board has different hosts who handle uprisings differently than our hosts. In fact, they "allow" a lot more bickering over there. When that much nastiness rears its head here, it's generally removed returning this board to calm. It's one of the reasons (as Brian says) I "play" in this sandbox:D .

I agree Heather. Considering my next two cruises are going to be on Cunard I wonder why I am still hanging around the HAL board. Hey, I still consider HAL my benchmark to date but more importantly............its a great place to play in.:)

[patwell]

I'm with Bramcruiser on this. The Cunard board had its share of malcontents and it got almost unpleasant to bother with it. As I'm taking my first QM2 cruise I hung in and as he said it seemed to disappear.

I've been spending time here as I plan a possible cruise on the Westerdam and have been looking for help and insight. Overall I have found this board to be very pleasant, something Celebrity certainly hasn't been lately. I just don't understand when the negativity gets so personal that even a casual reader feels uncomfortable. Must be tough on newcomers to sift through the bickering just looking for advice. Cheers, Penny

[bepsf]

...and it's not happy news.

Nope, nothing posted to the account this am (big surprise) and a call into Wells Fargo confirmed that nothing was submitted. Back to RCCL/X...

First I get "well, our system shows it was done Friday - I'll see what happenned" - then, "The Accounting department needs an hour - I'll call you then"

Meanwhile, I get an e-mail from the first person I deal w/ Thursday asking me for more info (?!?!?!?!) She didn't quite get the response she expected...

After two hours, I get a call: 'Well, Accounting tells me that it can be done Wednesday at 2pm'

At this point, I become absolutely unglued. Of course I'm here in the office so I have to leave my desk as I'm screaming into the cellphone about how disgusted I am in their deceptive business practices, the lies I've been told and delay tactics I've been subjected to - and that I refused to get off the phone until this was resolved. I am also subjected to the "Well, your traveling companions cards were declined, so we charged them to your account" - which is the biggest load of horse manure i've heard yet, and so not my responsibility if that were indeed the case.
(A quick call to Scotty afterward confirmed that they had indeed started taking money from his account)

BTW - Did I ever mention that every time I tried to call in, I had to explain my situation for the umpteenth time to a call-center rep before they would transfer my call to the individual I wanted? Did I also mention that when you're on hold, you're listing to a RCCL/X recording selling you the "Celebrity Treatment - How will it affect you?" ('I pooped and barfed for days - then you stole all my money and lied to me about it...') and promising that every Alaska cruise goes to Hubbard Glacier ad-nauseum...

Finally got a confirmation number e-mailed to me (no, I couldn't write it down as I was outside where I could pace up and down screaming into the phone without scaring the entire office...)
We'll see what happens tomorrow am.

Needless to say, I'm not posting this on the X boards - I don't need any more maltreatment be people who dont know me. But my list of letter recipients keeps getting longer and longer...

Heather, I'm afraid that at this rate I'll won't be stepping aboard an RCCL/X ship until NASA announces that the Earth is flat and our Moon is made of Stilton.

I can't wait.:cool:

[GMoney]

I'm confused. Hasn't WF provided you with provisional credit, and if not, why not? I understand X holds the solution, but WF should be able to provide immediate relief.

[bepsf]

I'm confused. Hasn't WF provided you with provisional credit, and if not, why not? I understand X holds the solution, but WF should be able to provide immediate relief.

GM - I'm told that it takes them 10 days to "Investigate" - Dunno if that's because I used a debit card or what the deal-io is...

[Nancyquilts]

Brian - I don't see how you are staying sane - this is just so ridiculous on Xs part. Yell at them some for the rest of us. Nancy

[peaches from georgia]

GM - I'm told that it takes them 10 days to "Investigate" - Dunno if that's because I used a debit card or what the deal-io is...
I'm sure they are waiting to be sure they are going to be able to collect the amount owed from your 2 friends on their credit cards. If they credit your bank account immediately and then find they are unable to get a hold for that amount on the cards of the other 2, X will be out the $$$. It's standard procedure for any company or bank, for that matter, to not make funds available (usually for 10 days in fact) until they know they are going to be able to collect the funds elsewhere.

I do sympathize, but am sure this is what they are doing.

[Navy_Chief]

Brian, maybe you need to have Mike Wallace come out of retirement so they can hear those four dredded words "Mike Wallace is here" :D

[HeatherInFlorida]

....................
Heather, I'm afraid that at this rate I'll won't be stepping aboard an RCCL/X ship until NASA announces that the Earth is flat and our Moon is made of Stilton.

I can't wait.:cool:

LOL, Brian!!!!:D I absolutely get that! And you know I don't blame you if for no other reason then you would go into it assuming it will be a nightmare. With all the other cruise lines in the world, why bother?

Peaches, I think you're right. They don't want to be left holding the empty bag so to speak;) .

In life (and believe me I've lived more years than I care to remember) I've found that once things start down the wrong road, you're basically doomed.

But you know what I love about you, Brian??? You're holding onto that great sense of humor of yours. And that is so great. Because without that, you most definitely would go mad.

Keep us informed!!!

[GMoney]

I'm sure they are waiting to be sure they are going to be able to collect the amount owed from your 2 friends on their credit cards. If they credit your bank account immediately and then find they are unable to get a hold for that amount on the cards of the other 2, X will be out the $$$. It's standard procedure for any company or bank, for that matter, to not make funds available (usually for 10 days in fact) until they know they are going to be able to collect the funds elsewhere.

I do sympathize, but am sure this is what they are doing.

The 10 days you reference is only when cashing a check, not doing a chargeback. They are 2 very different things. It not up to WF to collect from the friends. WF will collect from X's bank and then it's up to X and X's bank to collect from the friends.

[Pudgesmom]

Brian,

I think its Conde Nast Concierge that does wonderful investigations of disasters like this. I think they have an ombudsman (sp?) that will work on your behalf, and better yet, publish his or her findings of the situation and its resolution in their printed and on line publications.

Beth

[peaches from georgia]

The 10 days you reference is only when cashing a check, not doing a chargeback. They are 2 very different things. It not up to WF to collect from the friends. WF will collect from X's bank and then it's up to X and X's bank to collect from the friends.
Of course in this case it is X that is waiting the 10 days to credit the $$$ back to Brian's WF account after they have been assured of payment from his 2 friends' credit cards. WF has nothing to do with Brian's situation. X is the one that has to be sure of collection of the funds from the friends, similar to a bank when it puts a 10 day hold on a check until it has cleared the checkwriter's bank. Sorry if my wording wasn't clear.

[Grumpy1]

Of course in this case it is X that is waiting the 10 days to credit the $$$ back to Brian's WF account after they have been assured of payment from his 2 friends' credit cards. WF has nothing to do with Brian's situation. X is the one that has to be sure of collection of the funds from the friends, similar to a bank when it puts a 10 day hold on a check until it has cleared the checkwriter's bank. Sorry if my wording wasn't clear.
The problem is that X has no business holding money that was erroneously charged to Brian's account. It is their responsibility to restore brian's money even if they never collect from the other parties. To do otherwise is, plain and simple, theft. Brian was never responsible for the charges, his account was cleared before he left the ship. X reopened the account and added charges. There is probably some fine print somewhere that allows them to bill for charges that may not have been in the computer at checkout, though, and that is probably what X is claiming. But the fact that all three parties had cards registered, and the charges clearly indicate which party is responsible, and account #1 had been closed, makes me think someone posting the charges at X doesn't have a clue and the ones in the front office aren't much better.

[bepsf]

Actually, the 10 days refers to WF investigating the X's overcharge to my debit card - I guess that if they find that is truly the case, they'll refund my money to my account and go after X.

X acknowledged that they overcharged me back on Thursday - but have been dragging their feet since with excuses, accusations, lies, delays and broken-promises one after another. Only today did I get hit with the "We tried to charge your friends accounts but couldn't so we charged them all to you" excuse. It was after blowing my top and snarling at the rep on the phone today, as well as naming names of future recipients of my letters (including the SF Chronicle, the NY Times, Conde Nast, the Pritzker Family Trust, Travelocity and of course CruiseCritic.com) that I guess they realized that they shouldn't drag their feet any longer and finally gave me a confirmation number for the refund (a number which I was told Friday that they could not provide)

Thanks for the compliment Heather, but frankly I've been very, very down today - I don't know which is worse - being broke or taking a loan from a friend? I absolutely dreaded having to go through this insanity on the phone with them, and I hate being provoked to be as nasty as they pushed me to be.

...I've even been considering cancelling/postponing one or more of my future cruises on HAL to go do something else. Yes, I know that one company has nothing to do with the other, but this entire episode has left such a nasty aftertaste that I wonder if I should take a break for a while? Sorta feel like a little kid who's been badly bitten by the neighbor's Pitt-Bull: even Mom's Toy Poodle starts looking a little scary...

Hopefully, this too shall pass...

[peaches from georgia]

That's what they are 'investigating'- to be sure who owes what.

I've never cruised with anyone but DH, so I don't know about multiple credit cards on one account. Does it have to be done this way? Can't each individual have their own totally separate ships acct. even if they are traveling together? Just asking. It looks like a recipe for disaster to me.

[bepsf]

Actually, the 10 days refers to WF investigating the X's overcharge to my debit card - I guess that if they find that is truly the case, they'll refund my money to my account and go after X.

X acknowledged that they overcharged me back on Thursday - but have been dragging their feet since with excuses, accusations, lies, delays and broken-promises one after another. Only today did I get hit with the "We tried to charge your friends accounts but couldn't so we charged them all to you" excuse. It was after blowing my top and snarling at the rep on the phone today, as well as naming names of future recipients of my letters (including the SF Chronicle, the NY Times, Conde Nast, the Pritzker Family Trust, Travelocity and of course CruiseCritic.com) that I guess they realized that they shouldn't drag their feet any longer and finally gave me a confirmation number for the refund (a number which I was told Friday that they could not provide)

Thanks for the compliment Heather, but frankly I've been very, very down today - I don't know which is worse - being broke or taking a loan from a friend? I absolutely dreaded having to go through this insanity on the phone with them, and I hate being provoked to be as nasty as they pushed me to be.

...I've even been considering cancelling/postponing one or more of my future cruises on HAL to go do something else. Yes, I know that one company has nothing to do with the other, but this entire episode has left such a nasty aftertaste that I wonder if I should take a break for a while? Sorta feel like a little kid who's been badly bitten by the neighbor's Pitt-Bull: even Mom's Toy Poodle starts looking a little scary...

Thanks for the support all - Hopefully, this too shall pass...

[Grumpy1]

That's what they are 'investigating'- to be sure who owes what.

I've never cruised with anyone but DH, so I don't know about multiple credit cards on one account. Does it have to be done this way? Can't each individual have their own totally separate ships acct. even if they are traveling together? Just asking. It looks like a recipe for disaster to me.
That's exactly what they had. Totally separate accounts. The accounts are cabin#-1, cabin#-2, and cabin#-3. No party is responsible for the other's accounts.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Except, Grumpy, I thought they were all in the same cabin, but with different accounts. I assumed that was why the mix-up ... that somehow they believed Brian to be the ultimate responsible party in that cabin. But I'm not sure about that at all.

Brian, it will definitely pass. When I refer to your sense of humor, I meant the way you tell the tale here. You manage to tell it in an amusing way and it invites more sympathy for your plight because you aren't just whining all the time.

Skipping your next cruise might not be a bad idea:) ! Actually we're thinking of doing that next year (not cruising). We're thinking of "doing" the California coast ... Santa Barbara, Carmel, SF ... who knows? A little break never hurts. On the other hand we're looking at Princess:eek: 15-day to Hawaii from LA.

Maybe as a sympathetic gesture Celebrity will reward you with a "free" cruise on the Mercury for all your trouble! :D LOL!!! I couldn't resist ... I'm killing myself here :D .

Seriously, Brian, it will get fixed. I know it's a royal pain but it really will be okay in the end.

[JLC@SD]

This may not be entirely X's fault like everyone claims,

1. Paying with and they trying to reverse a debit card payment can not be equated to a credit card transaction. X has to make sure they will collect before releasing the debit card charge.

2. The two friends claim they can use the credit cards that were denied. What if X couldn't get 1,500.00 authorized or 750.00 for each's half on board. That denial could have caused Brian's problems.

[Williebill]

I have been intending to try Celebrity; after hearing everything Brian went through, I'll pass.

[stanford's girl]

GM - I'm told that it takes them 10 days to "Investigate" - Dunno if that's because I used a debit card or what the deal-io is...

Hmmmm, if it takes 10 days to investigate, then maybe people should take 10 days to pay their accounts!! You can tell them that your investigating their charges.:D

[stanford's girl]

Skipping your next cruise might not be a bad idea:) !Considering our group cruise is his "next cruise", I hope he doesn't skip it. :(

[thomasale]

Its' the golden rule again...dem dat have da gold make da rules...sorry for your woes Brian

[carolcp]

Brian, I am sure you have taken all the appropriate steps for getting these charges reversed. I found this web site that might help you incase you didn't think of something http://www.ftc.gov/bcp/conline/pubs/credit/atmcard.htm Hopefully digging through this site might yeild some helpful information.

It is the from the FTC. My brother in law just lost the company debit card and is going through all sorts of hoops to get the charges reversed.

Carol

[Grumpy1]

Except, Grumpy, I thought they were all in the same cabin, but with different accounts. I assumed that was why the mix-up ... that somehow they believed Brian to be the ultimate responsible party in that cabin. But I'm not sure about that at all.

Heather, isn't that exactly what I said when I wrote "That's exactly what they had. Totally separate accounts. The accounts are cabin#-1, cabin#-2, and cabin#-3. No party is responsible for the other's accounts." ?
If, say, you and Ruth did a single share on a cruise. You would each have your own account. If you were in cabin 1234, one account would be 1234-1 and the other would be 1234-2. And I'll bet that neither one of you would agree to be "ultimately responsible" for the others charges. They are stand alone accounts. There should be no linkage other than being in the same cabin.

[peaches from georgia]

Grumpy- If you look back at Brian's original post there was clearly ONE account for that room they were sharing. Brian even refers to it as 'The account' in his post. The separate charges made by each person who could charge on that account are designated by #1, #2, or #3 on the invoice for that account.

This is exactly the way my husband's and my credit cards are billed. We have the same cc account number, but the charges are separated on the bill by each of our names depending on who made the charge. However, each one of us is responsible that the bill gets paid one way or the other.

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

[GMoney]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

Yes, you can absolutely do this. I've done it on every cruise I've ever been on across multiple lines and never had a problem.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Oviously those of us discussing this don't have all the answers, but my point really was that Brian won the cruise from Travelocity. He took two friends with him in the cabin. I think he won the cruise for 2? So maybe the 3rd paid an upfront "share" charge. I'm not sure.

But in any case, it was Brian's booking. The guys chose to hold separate shipboard accounts. But I was only guessing when I said that maybe Celebrity sees him as ultimately responsible since it's his cabin they shared.

If I were ever to book with someone else (other than my husband), we would be booking separately, right? It's very different in my view. But I honestly don't know because I've never done it.

So the whole thing is very murky.

[NoNoNanette]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

I had no problem doing that on my last Conquest cruise.

Because of Katrina damage, my husband chose not to join me, so another CCritic buddy (Salty Dawg) flew in to join me.

I arrived on the ship first, gave them my credit card and informed them that a friend would be using her own credit card.

As Grumpy said, they set up 2 seperate accounts for our 1 room. No problem.

[Grumpy1]

Grumpy- If you look back at Brian's original post there was clearly ONE account for that room they were sharing. Brian even refers to it as 'The account' in his post. The separate charges made by each person who could charge on that account are designated by #1, #2, or #3 on the invoice for that account.

This is exactly the way my husband's and my credit cards are billed. We have the same cc account number, but the charges are separated on the bill by each of our names depending on who made the charge. However, each one of us is responsible that the bill gets paid one way or the other.

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.
That isn't the way it worked on our Grand world Voyage. When we boarded, we each registered, and, as you say, we were desiginated as #1 and #2. But, since we each ran a credit card imprint, even though it was the same CC account number, the accounts remained as separate entities. My charges and my tips were on my account, her charges and tips were on her account, and the charges showed up on the credit card statement as two separate charges. That is exactly the way it should be done when each person registers a card on an account.

I've been through this sort of billing for years, staying in motels as part of my job and paying the room charges for others working with me. It's always a simple procedure for them to maintain separate folios for each room and transfer the charges to one account at checkout. It sounds like that is what X did... transferred everything to one folio, but without permission to do so.

I don't understand your statement that there was clearly one account. Brian's post says exactly opposite of that:

My friend Don, who was in the same room and also left that day had reviewed and signed off on the charges to be placed on the card that he'd registered as he checked out that am.

Since my other friend Scotty stayed aboard in our room and continued to Seattle (where he lives), he of course continued to charge items to the room. He too had supplied his own card for his shipboard expenses when we checked in.

[blueboro]

Have cruised most major lines, including X and HAL. We have loved our Celebrity cruises and enjoyed our October Zuiderdam cruise. However, if I had to judge a company on one ship X would win hands down. While service and food were GREAT on HAL the ship looked like it had been leased to a college frat for a few months. Broken glass, carpet held together by duct tape, stains, and more. But we did not let this get in the way of the really good things about the cruise.

[AirGorilla]

That isn't the way it worked on our Grand world Voyage. When we boarded, we each registered, and, as you say, we were desiginated as #1 and #2. But, since we each ran a credit card imprint, even though it was the same CC account number, the accounts remained as separate entities. My charges and my tips were on my account, her charges and tips were on her account, and the charges showed up on the credit card statement as two separate charges. That is exactly the way it should be done when each person registers a card on an account.

I've been through this sort of billing for years, staying in motels as part of my job and paying the room charges for others working with me. It's always a simple procedure for them to maintain separate folios for each room and transfer the charges to one account at checkout. It sounds like that is what X did... transferred everything to one folio, but without permission to do so.

I don't understand your statement that there was clearly one account. Brian's post says exactly opposite of that: [/SIZE][/FONT]

The main reason for this whole problem, Grumpy, was that BOTH Don and Scotty had used cards (not sure whether credit or debit) that were rejected, probably either for low cash balances or low available credit limits. If his traveling companions had been more circumspect in their spending patterns, or were more credit-worthy, this situation would have never occurred. It seem to me that Celebrity is taking more flak here than is justified.

[dakrewser]

The main reason for this whole problem, Grumpy, was that BOTH Don and Scotty had used cards (not sure whether credit or debit) that were rejected, probably either for low cash balances or low available credit limits. If his traveling companions had been more circumspect in their spending patterns, or were more credit-worthy, this situation would have never occurred. It seem to me that Celebrity is taking more flak here than is justified.

How well do you know Don & Scotty that you can trash their judgement as well as their credit worthiness??

The question of a rejected card was only one of a number of poor excuses that X personnel gave for this fiasco - but none of them were justified. Celebrity screwed up big time and should take the flak.

And HAL, X and all major cruise lines track the use of your on-board signing cards seperately. For most of us, both people in the cabin are using the same credit card, but you'll still see the carges seperated for acct #1 and acct #2 on your final bill. You could even have your spouse/cabinmate use a different credit card and get totally seperate bills. Alternatively, you could have people in different cabins using the same credit card. The billing is all tied to the credit card offered by each cruiser at the start of the cruise. And there are no grounds for the line charging to a deifferent card than the one offered at sign in without the express permission of the card holder. This is a legal, contractual issue - it has nothing to do with opinions.

[tech]

Well said, dakrewser. :)

As far as a card being declined, I have had it happen a few times when the card was not being swiped into the machine.

In each case, I said run it again. They did and would reply "Oh, I put the number in wrong the first time ".

If I had not told them to run it again, I would have been declined.

We have all probably encountered an incorrect invoicing problem. Then have had trouble getting the problem fixed. After so many days, emails and phone calls, one is just fit to be tied.

The person who made this mistake has probably gone to all sorts of lengths to avoid being reprimanded. That can include giving out false information about the transaction.

Regardless, I cannot see where it is even legal to make Brian pay for expenses that were not authorized to be put on his card.

Maybe some obscure fine print allows it. I sure hope not.

[Sayyadina]

That's what they are 'investigating'- to be sure who owes what.

And if Brian is getting this kind of run around, can you imagine what WF is getting from X? :eek:

[AirGorilla]

How well do you know Don & Scotty that you can trash their judgement as well as their credit worthiness??

The question of a rejected card was only one of a number of poor excuses that X personnel gave for this fiasco - but none of them were justified. Celebrity screwed up big time and should take the flak.

And HAL, X and all major cruise lines track the use of your on-board signing cards seperately. For most of us, both people in the cabin are using the same credit card, but you'll still see the carges seperated for acct #1 and acct #2 on your final bill. You could even have your spouse/cabinmate use a different credit card and get totally seperate bills. Alternatively, you could have people in different cabins using the same credit card. The billing is all tied to the credit card offered by each cruiser at the start of the cruise. And there are no grounds for the line charging to a deifferent card than the one offered at sign in without the express permission of the card holder. This is a legal, contractual issue - it has nothing to do with opinions.

Both cards were rejected. At least, that is what I read earlier in the thread. The possible reasons seem obvious to me, as I wrote above. No reflections on anyone's character intended!

The stateroom was listed in Brian's name, I believe. If X was unsuccessful at collecting the on-board charges made by Brian's cabinmates, due to the rejected cards, they must have gone to the "owner" of the stateroom to collect payment, as a "last resort". This is probably why Brian's card was charged. This is certainly a royal pain-in-the-butt for Brian, I am sure.

Certainly agree that there is a legal issue here -- X may have the legal right to do what it did, as a last resort to get paid for the on-board expenditures which were charged to Brian's stateroom.

[HeatherInFlorida]

...............
The stateroom was listed in Brian's name, I believe...............

Therein lies the key, I think. This was my understanding as well. I thought Brian won the cruise so the cabin was in his name.

So if the cabin was in Brian's name, then X might consider him ultimately responsible for the bill if they were unsuccessful collecting on the other cards.

I'm not saying that's right ... it's just a possibility.

[dakrewser]

Therein lies the key, I think. This was my understanding as well. I thought Brian won the cruise so the cabin was in his name.

So if the cabin was in Brian's name, then X might consider him ultimately responsible for the bill if they were unsuccessful collecting on the other cards.

I'm not saying that's right ... it's just a possibility.

C'mon, Heather - you've been on cruises. You know that if there's a problem with your credit card you'll be paged on that final morning until you final go to the front desk! :)

Brian would have had to indicate in a written statement that he was ultimately responsible for the charges for X to legally be able to post the charges to his card.

[xpcdoojk]

C'mon, Heather - you've been on cruises. You know that if there's a problem with your credit card you'll be paged on that final morning until you final go to the front desk! :)

Brian would have had to indicate in a written statement that he was ultimately responsible for the charges for X to legally be able to post the charges to his card.

But he left early, right? That is the oddest part of the entire mess, and I wonder if that doesn't cause all sorts of gears grinding together. :D ;)

I still can't imagine leaving the cruise early unless I was in the hospital.:D

jc

[Iggipolka]

"Well, your traveling companions cards were declined, so we charged them to your account" - which is the biggest load of horse manure i've heard yet, and so not my responsibility if that were indeed the case.
(A quick call to Scotty afterward confirmed that they had indeed started taking money from his account)




The cards were not rejected.

[HeatherInFlorida]

As jc says, there was no final morning! Brian got off after 2 days. He settled his account and left.

As I said, I have absolutely no idea why Celebrity charged him for his friend's charges. I was just tossing out some ideas.

Hopefully for Brian, he'll get this all sorted out ... hopefully sooner than later because of course he's tearing his hair out. It's so annoying when you deal with these bureaucracies and nobody knows what the other guy is doing.

I'm sure he'll let us know. The rest is just conversation.

[RevNeal]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

Yes.
When Christopher and I cruise I am #1 and he is #2 -- at least, that's how it always works out (I don't know why). His print out comes to him, my print out comes to me. If there's an error and a charge (or charges) of his are on my account it's easy to get it transferred, but we both have to go to the front desk to do this. He pays his bill with a credit card, I usually pay my bill with cash. The two accounts do not mix, and are settled independently of each other. He is not responsible for mine, and I am not responsible for his.

The problem here, as I understand it, is that when the business office got around to actually putting the charges through all they did was lump everything into ONE bill and charge it all to Brian. This is sloppy accounting and may well be illegal on the part of the line. At least on HAL there is NOTHING in the contract which states that the primary in a cabin is ultimately responsible for all bills accrued by unrelated adult passengers in the same cabin. I can't imagine that X would be any different in that regard. The claim that the other passengers' cards were declined is bogus ... it was one of the lies that was attempted by X to cover their shoddy accounting practice in this matter. This can be demonstrated by the fact that X has now charged the other two for their onboard expenses but has NOT, yet, reverse-charged Brian's money back to him (despite claiming that they have).

The second problem -- and this is worse than the first -- is that those with whom Brian has been communicating in X's business office have, in effect, been lying to him. They have lied about when his money would be returned (as of right now it has not yet been charged back to his bank, even though X has claimed -- twice -- that it has been charged back), and they have attempted to claim at least 2 difference causes of this error ... both of which place the blame on the others in his cabin. All-in-all, this is simply unacceptable as far as business practices go.

As for X holding on to the money which they mistakenly took from Brian and not from those to whom it should have been charged ... that money is NOT their money, it's Brian's money which they have incorrectly charged from him for debts that he never incurred. They had NO BUSINESS charging it to him in the first place, and they certainly have NO BUSINESS continuing to hold on to it once they learned of their error, and the fact that they are continuing to hold onto it even AFTER charging the others cards, is utterly BEYOND the pale of acceptability. It is not Brian's responsibility to ensure that the debts of the others in his cabin are paid ... it is the Line's responsibility to collect their money from those who actually owe it. Claiming that they have to to make sure the charges are covered and are holding onto Brian's money to that end is like saying that they should be able to charge YOUR credit card for the onboard expenses of those in the cabin next door to you simply because their card was declined but they have your card and it works. Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

[RevNeal]

Brian got off after 2 days. He settled his account and left.

If Brian settled his account and everything was fine ... HOW IS IT that the Line felt free to charge him for expenses that were incurred by others AFTER he disembarked? That's part of what makes this so atrocious. How would you feel if you got a charge on your credit card for the onboard expenses of those who cruised in your cabin on the sailing AFTER yours? That's not unlike what's happened to Brian. Brian's account was settled and closed. There shouldn't have been ANY WAY to charge to him the expenses of another.

[GMoney]

Tell us how you really feel Rev. Don't hold back... :D ;)

Yes.
When Christopher and I cruise I am #1 and he is #2 -- at least, that's how it always works out (I don't know why). His print out comes to him, my print out comes to me. If there's an error and a charge (or charges) of his are on my account it's easy to get it transferred, but we both have to go to the front desk to do this. He pays his bill with a credit card, I usually pay my bill with cash. The two accounts do not mix, and are settled independently of each other. He is not responsible for mine, and I am not responsible for his.

The problem here, as I understand it, is that when the business office got around to actually putting the charges through all they did was lump everything into ONE bill and charge it all to Brian. This is sloppy accounting and may well be illegal on the part of the line. At least on HAL there is NOTHING in the contract which states that the primary in a cabin is ultimately responsible for all bills accrued by unrelated adult passengers in the same cabin. I can't imagine that X would be any different in that regard. The claim that the other passengers' cards were declined is bogus ... it was one of the lies that was attempted by X to cover their shoddy accounting practice in this matter. This can be demonstrated by the fact that X has now charged the other two for their onboard expenses but has NOT, yet, reverse-charged Brian's money back to him (despite claiming that they have).

The second problem -- and this is worse than the first -- is that those with whom Brian has been communicating in X's business office have, in effect, been lying to him. They have lied about when his money would be returned (as of right now it has not yet been charged back to his bank, even though X has claimed -- twice -- that it has been charged back), and they have attempted to claim at least 2 difference causes of this error ... both of which place the blame on the others in his cabin. All-in-all, this is simply unacceptable as far as business practices go.

As for X holding on to the money which they mistakenly took from Brian and not from those to whom it should have been charged ... that money is NOT their money, it's Brian's money which they have incorrectly charged from him for debts that he never incurred. They had NO BUSINESS charging it to him in the first place, and they certainly have NO BUSINESS continuing to hold on to it once they learned of their error, and the fact that they are continuing to hold onto it even AFTER charging the others cards, is utterly BEYOND the pale of acceptability. It is not Brian's responsibility to ensure that the debts of the others in his cabin are paid ... it is the Line's responsibility to collect their money from those who actually owe it. Claiming that they have to to make sure the charges are covered and are holding onto Brian's money to that end is like saying that they should be able to charge YOUR credit card for the onboard expenses of those in the cabin next door to you simply because their card was declined but they have your card and it works. Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

[RevNeal]

Tell us how you really feel Rev. Don't hold back... :D ;)

Oh, I'm holding back. I'm angry and this didn't even happen to me! :)
I just don't don't like seeing good people -- friends of mine -- placed into hardship over the clerical errors of others. And let's not forget that this has generated a real hardship for Brian. It's not just that he didn't have access to some credit that he would have liked to have used ... it's that he went in and through a 3-day holiday weekend with a negative balance in his checking account and NO cash on hand. I know what that's like ... it's not fun.

[mechcc]

My question is whether you can be in the same room with someone else and have totally different and separate room accounts? Surely someone who has shared a cabin with a non-relative with their own cc can answer that. This whole mess could have been avoided if each of the guys had had a completely separate ship's account rather than one invoice split 3 ways depending on charges made.

They are suppose to charge it to separate accounts. Three weeks ago I shared a cabin with another person unrelated to me. The cabin was reserved in my name originally as a single. She was added later and we didn't meet till the day before the cruise. We didn't even check in at the same time. She paid with credit card and I paid in cash. There was never ever a problem with charges for one going to the other's account. Both times they handed out statements, they were separate account. RCCL got it right and maybe they need to train the people who work at X.

IMHO, X was totally in error to ever of put any charges on his account after he had left ship. Add that to the false excuses he's been given, promptly charging his friends accounts but not promptly returning his money is criminal.

As for using a debit card versus a credit card, that's a personal choice and many factors play into using the debit card. X is suppose to be a crediable company and they should of never charged him when he was clearly not responsible for his friends charges.

Brian - sure hope you don't cancel your next cruise. Remember You're our social director and we need you.

[HeatherInFlorida]

If Brian settled his account and everything was fine ... HOW IS IT that the Line felt free to charge him for expenses that were incurred by others AFTER he disembarked? That's part of what makes this so atrocious. How would you feel if you got a charge on your credit card for the onboard expenses of those who cruised in your cabin on the sailing AFTER yours? That's not unlike what's happened to Brian. Brian's account was settled and closed. There shouldn't have been ANY WAY to charge to him the expenses of another.

Greg, I left a word out of my post ... my mistake. I meant to say that Brian believed he had settled his account when he left the ship.

I would never debate that there's been an error made here. I never have from the onset and I don't think anyone else has. I thought what everyone here is doing was to make an effort to figure out how it ever could have happened in the first place.

Clearly, based on your post, you have much more information than the rest of us have who are only going by what Brian has actually told us. But something is amiss; I don't think anyone here debates that.

I hope it gets straightened out for Brian soon and they make up the whole mess to him in some way.

[RuthC]

I hope ... they make up the whole mess to him in some way.
And there-in lies the rub. When this unfortunate episode is over X will have refunded Brian's money, may have offered an apology, and X will end it there.
If they behave like any other large organization there will be no effort to "make up" anything to him. They certainly won't ask him what they could do to make things up to him.

But out of curiosity, if they were to ask you Brian, what would you ask for so you could end this feeling better (notice I didn't say "good") about X?

[krewzin]

Peryaps they will offer him a $25 credit on a future cruise?

:D

[HeatherInFlorida]

Not to belabor it, Ruth (as if we haven't already;) ), but I have to say that in my experience large organizations have often done something for me when it has turned out that the error was on their part. I've actually had this happen many times.

So I wouldn't simply dismiss the idea. I'm not saying they will because I personally still don't have all the knowledge I would need to know what mistake has been made. But it certainly is done.

Of course, in Brian's case a credit toward a future cruise or some such thing would most probably not "cut it":) .

[iceman93]

Maybe they can offer him a free cruise? ;) :D

[Grumpy1]

Maybe they can offer him a free cruise? ;) :D He could ask that they provide him a free cruise.... on HAL!:D

[JLC@SD]

Everyone is forming an opinion based completely on Brian's statements.........which could be completely true..........or slanted towards his dissatisfaction with X............which is clearly evident by the fact he left the cruise early...............sort of the two sides to every story concept.

What if..........his winning the cruise through Travelocity...........was conditioned (by small print) on him being responsible for all charges made to the cabin...;)

[Sunshine91]

Yes, that's absurd ... and so is this.

THANK YOU!

[RevNeal]

Greg, I left a word out of my post ... my mistake. I meant to say that Brian believed he had settled his account when he left the ship.

HAL wouldn't let me disembark the ship and end a cruise without settling in full with them. Based upon everything that Brian has said, I assume that this is what happened with Brian.

I would never debate that there's been an error made here. I never have from the onset and I don't think anyone else has. I thought what everyone here is doing was to make an effort to figure out how it ever could have happened in the first place.

Yes and no. Yes, we're trying to figure out how this happened. We're also trying to figure out how this is STILL going on. And, I would hope, we're all commiserating with Brian on how it was wrong. And ... I don't believe that anyone here is dissenting in this.

Clearly, based on your post, you have much more information than the rest of us have who are only going by what Brian has actually told us. But something is amiss; I don't think anyone here debates that.

I hope it gets straightened out for Brian soon and they make up the whole mess to him in some way.

Heather, we are in total agreement here.

[Tricia724]

This is really interesting to me because my SO and I always register both of our credit cards and have seldom had any problems with the billings being correctly assigned. As others have mentioned, the billings numbers were always Cabin 1234-1 and 1234-2.

I have noticed, however, that there were times in the past on HAL that we were not required to produce our cards. We were merely asked for the cabin number....and if we thoughtlessly just gave the cabin number without the -1 or -2 designation, the charge would automatically be charged to -1....no matter which of us signed the slip. Celebrity, however, was a lot more strict....I was always asked for my card whenever I made any purchase....which was fine....but knowing this makes this situation with Brian and his friends even more strange to me.

Most of the cruiselines have a similar form you have to sign which lists your card number and asks you to designate who else is permitted to charge to that account. If there are no other names listed, it is very clear that you are not assuming responsibility for any charges but your own. I understand there are differences if children are involved, but I'm merely addressing the issue of adults sharing the same cabin.

It then stands to reason that the cruiseline has to require any other adults who have not made financial arrangements to do so. And....if and when the others do make arrangements, they are responsible for themselves....and the cruiseline should go after them and nobody else.

I have never understood why some of the cruiselines are so lax about obtaining financial arrangements. I think all cruiselines should do this at check-in or immediately thereafter....and if an individual is not prepared to do so, he/she should be politely informed that he/she will not be able to make any charges onboard until that requirement is satisfied. If the cruise is half over, and someone has charged up a few hundred bucks and has made no effort to set up a payment plan, why in the world would you continue to let them get in even deeper and risk non-payment? I don't get it.:confused:

[mechcc]

Of course, in Brian's case a credit toward a future cruise or some such thing would most probably not "cut it":) .

My money is that if they gave him a 100% cruise of like stateroom on HAL he would jump on it, as long as not other conditions are involved.:rolleyes:

[thomasale]

Everyone is forming an opinion based completely on Brian's statements.........which could be completely true..........or slanted towards his dissatisfaction with X............which is clearly evident by the fact he left the cruise early...............sort of the two sides to every story concept.

What if..........his winning the cruise through Travelocity...........was conditioned (by small print) on him being responsible for all charges made to the cabin...;)

That has been my feeling also. Their are 3 sides to every story yours, theirs, and the truth. My sympathy is with Brian though, because the $1500 is his...for that there is no question. For him that (and me too for that matter)is significant money. X would not have missed it for the time it will take for them to collect from the rightful source. Shame on X for allowing this to become what it has.

[HeatherInFlorida]

HAL wouldn't let me disembark the ship and end a cruise without settling in full with them. Based upon everything that Brian has said, I assume that this is what happened with Brian. ................

Actually, that's not completely true. I can't speak for HAL, but when we were on Celebrity last year we got our statement at the end of the cruise, but it clearly stated that additional charges could possibly be added after we disembarked.

While my initial statement was correct, I was billed for additional charges on my credit card when I got home. And they were not my charges. I emailed Celebrity and after 3 or 4 "back and forths" it was straightened out. In the Showlounge they don't actually swipe your card, but rather just write your number on the slip. So I got doused with some other people's drink charges who must have ordered their drinks right after I ordered my Coke which I knew couldn't cost $25:) .

My point is, the so called "final" bill is not necessarily final. And in Brian's case he disembarked early, and suddenly from what I understand, so it's logical to guess his account might not be completely up to date.

All this has nothing to do with his current situation which is going on far too long. But as others have said, too, we really don't have all the facts.

My sympathies continue to lie with Brian and I hope we get some good news today from him.

[RevNeal]

Heather,

That's most interesting. I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money. I suppose they would just have to bill me for any additional charges.

We are agreed that there is a massive difference between what you discovered and what Brian discovered (about a $1475 difference), but apparently a "Final Bill" isn't a "Final Bill" and a "Settled Account" isn't a "Settled Account."

[xpcdoojk]

Heather,

That's most interesting. I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money. I suppose they would just have to bill me for any additional charges.

We are agreed that there is a massive difference between what you discovered and what Brian discovered (about a $1475 difference), but apparently a "Final Bill" isn't a "Final Bill" and a "Settled Account" isn't a "Settled Account."

I imagine they are a lot more thorough with people who settle their accounts by cash.:D

jc

[HeatherInFlorida]

I agree, Greg ... it is curious. And jc may be right. I guess they'd go back to the old fashioned way of sending you a bill and hoping you would pay it ... just like the 'old days'.

I would guess, as well, that when a person says they will pay in cash, they do check your credit history.

Of course you're right! My situation isn't the same at all and it's one reason I never even mentioned it! I only used it as an example and of course it also proves the old addage, what possibly can go wrong most likely will go wrong (or something like that???:o )

[peaches from georgia]

..... of course it also proves the old addage, what possibly can go wrong most likely will go wrong (or something like that???:o )
Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D

[RevNeal]

I would guess, as well, that when a person says they will pay in cash, they do check your credit history.

Not in my experience. At least, HAL doesn't. They make you pay up-front. Then, at the end of the cruise, you go to the front desk and they pay you back whatever overage you've paid them. :) Your onboard "credit" is equal to the amount you deposit.

[Grumpy1]

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D I've always liked the version that says "when absolutely nothing can possibly go wrong... it will anyway.":D

[RevNeal]

Murphy's Law: Anything that can go wrong will go wrong! :D

Murphy was an Optimist.

I prefer Heinlein's Law: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

I also like Heinlein's corollary to Murphy's Law: "When in trouble or in doubt, run in circles, scream and shout." :)

Some people are good at his corollary. Others just exemplify the truth of his Law.

[HeatherInFlorida]

LOL! Oh, well, I was close! Just a bit wordy:D . What else is new??? Thanks, Peaches!

Greg, I wouldn't count on it. Bet they do check, but certainly not sure enough to argue it;) . I honestly try to debate only issues of which I'm absolutely positive. Sometimes I fail at that attempt ... :o

In the end, we're all human and we all make mistakes. So I try really hard not to point fingers or be too critical because the next time it just might be me.

[Sayyadina]

I prefer Heinlein's Law: "Never underestimate the power of human stupidity."

From one of my favorite show (Babylon 5):

Person #1: "They can't be THAT stupid, can they?"
Person #2: "Always bet on stupidity."

The second line has become one of my fallback lines. :)

I'm curious to see how this whole thing works out. It's been about a week, right? There's no excuse for this. Depending on how many people they may have 'accidentally' done this to over time, that can amount to quite a bit of interest they could have gained off of other people's money. Credit card companies have borne the brunt of class-action lawsuits for less.

Of course, that assumes a lot, too. Probably Marshall's Generalized Iceberg Theorem applies here best: "7/8ths of everything can't be seen."

[bookworm0911]

Isn't it getting just a little over the top to think this is a money-making scheme of X for a little extra interest income? If that was X's 'plan' it would have to involve an unbelievable number of pax every week of the year to make it worthwhile. That's less plausible than believing it was just an error, at least to me. ;)

[AirGorilla]

Not in my experience. At least, HAL doesn't. They make you pay up-front. Then, at the end of the cruise, you go to the front desk and they pay you back whatever overage you've paid them. :) Your onboard "credit" is equal to the amount you deposit.

RevNeal --

I am curious about the details of how this works. Would you mind telling
(a) How much per day do they require to allow this?
(b) If your charges exceed the amount deposited, do they let you know immediately, and ask for extra cash deposits? Or do they wait until the end of the cruise, and ask for more then?

Thank you!

[Sayyadina]

Isn't it getting just a little over the top to think this is a money-making scheme of X for a little extra interest income? If that was X's 'plan' it would have to involve an unbelievable number of pax every week of the year to make it worthwhile. That's less plausible than believing it was just an error, at least to me. ;)

Absolutely it is over the top to think it is a money making scheme. However, it has been done. Banks do it all the time. ;) I think it is just an error on Xs part.

[Navy_Chief]

I wonder how they manage to settle accounts with people who, like me, tend to pay in cash? When I disembark I settle my account, in cash, and that settlement is considered "final." Of course it is final ... I'm off the ship and they don't have a card of mine from which to snatch money.

Here Here! My way fo dealing with it exactly Greg, well said. No Card, no chance of charging me extra.

I imagine they are a lot more thorough with people who settle their accounts by cash.

They don't have to be, I'm thorough enough for the both of us. I track it too.

They don't bother checking your credit history or anything like that which was suggested. They don't look any further than the ID I present while handing them the signed AMEX Traveler's Cheque.

AirGorilla asked for some details: I drop a calculated amount on the account (generally $150 x the number of days sailing) and usually get some back when it's all said and done. If we spend over what we carry on the books, they tell you to add more, I pop back around to the Front Office with some more Traveler's Cheques and fork over some more. I have never been told that I have run out of money. I would know way before this as I total up the previous days reciepts over morning coffee. I also have never been "Back Billed" anything as the final bill says "Paid in Full". If a cruise line or any other business tries to collect after the fact, they better be prepared to take it to Small Claims Court. But they won't because I have a receipt that says "Paid In Full" they lose, next case..... :D

[xpcdoojk]

Here Here! My way fo dealing with it exactly Greg, well said. No Card, no chance of charging me extra.



They don't have to be, I'm thorough enough for the both of us. I track it too.

They don't bother checking your credit history or anything like that which was suggested. They don't look any further than the ID I present while handing them the signed AMEX Traveler's Cheque.

AirGorilla asked for some details: I drop a calculated amount on the account (generally $150 x the number of days sailing) and usually get some back when it's all said and done. If we spend over what we carry on the books, they tell you to add more, I pop back around to the Front Office with some more Traveler's Cheques and fork over some more. I have never been told that I have run out of money. I would know way before this as I total up the previous days reciepts over morning coffee. I also have never been "Back Billed" anything as the final bill says "Paid in Full". If a cruise line or any other business tries to collect after the fact, they better be prepared to take it to Small Claims Court. But they won't because I have a receipt that says "Paid In Full" they lose, next case.....

Sounds like you really know how to have a fun vacation!;) :D I don't usually plan on doing a lot of book keeping while on vacation. After 9 cruises on 4 different cruiselines I have yet to have the problem Brian had and I always give them a credit card, of course, I never left the ship after two days. I still don't understand that. ;)

I feel very bad for Brian, but I think his accounting of the experience is over the top. Which if I was in his position I might do as well, but....

jc

[Navy_Chief]

Just doing what the Navy taught me....attention to detail shipmate. Hard to get it out of your blood after retirement from the USN, just like the sea itself. Too bad I have to pay for the privailege of going to sea now but that's the way it is. I don't believe in credit cards, if I can't buy it, I can't afford it. The only credit card you'll find in my wallet is the one the company I work for now issued me for company travel :D As for having fun on my vacation, after the 5 minutes the "book keeping" takes, it's all up and let it roll:D The chances that what happened to Brian are no doubt few. Darn shame that it's dragging out so long and I don't blame him for being bitter over the whole thing. Show me one person on this board that would say "No Problem, keep that $1500"

[mechcc]

Show me one person on this board that would say "No Problem, keep that $1500"

Wouldn't be me that's for sure!

[sail7seas]

Nor me...or anyone I know!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

[Navy_Chief]

As I said, I don't believe in them. Never said anything against anyone who wants to use them. It's a free country, and I spent a fair amount of time to keep it that way so people can have that fredom to choose to live the way they want to, spend their cash, plastic or what ever you want the way they want want. :D Now try to take it away without just cause, that's not going to happen without trouble. Again, Brian, I hope you get through this ok shipmate.

[mechcc]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

And your method works for you which is just great. Won't argue with you on that is what you feel is best. But, the method of paying for a shipboard account is a personal decision and should be based on many, many different factors to include personal habits, self discipline, one time vacation of a lifetime, financed by a bonus check or inheritence, saved for a long time, normal yearly (or more often vacation), credit card's protection for disputed charges, gambling addiction, how much someone can really afford, and whatever.

I happen of come to a different conclusion from my experiences and Brian's fiasco. Take traveler's checks and do the whole shipboard account with cash. It isn't hard to keep track of onboard expenses and add as needed and get your cash back on disembarkation day. I have used the credit card, the debit card and the cash method on different cruises. Personally, I feel the cash way seems the safest way to protect your self against fruadulant charges as well as not having to write that large check to the credit card company when the bill comes due.

[RevNeal]

I am curious about the details of how this works. Would you mind telling
(a) How much per day do they require to allow this?
(b) If your charges exceed the amount deposited, do they let you know immediately, and ask for extra cash deposits? Or do they wait until the end of the cruise, and ask for more then?

(a) While they will allow you to set your your own per-day expense level, I would suggest basing your deposit upon the per-person/per-day pre-authorization amount that the Cruise Line would normally apply to a credit card to establish your Onboard Account credit line. In other words: for the average 7-day cruise for one person I would make a deposit of $70 x 7 = $490. I usually don't go over that level of onboard expense, and sometimes I come out a hundred or more less. On long cruises (15+ days) I will usually just deposit an initial $1000 and then check on my expenses at the half-way point to see how things are going.

(b) When your onboard expenses exceed the amount you have deposited the Front Office will put a notice in your mailbox letting you know that you need to come down and deposit more or, if you prefer, provide them a credit card number.

When you check-in at the pier and the shore staff asks you for your credit card for pre-authorization purposes just tell them that you intend to establish your account with a cash deposit at the front desk. They don't normally even blink at this ... though they might remind you to not forget to go to the front desk and make your deposit. I generally make my deposit in the form of travelers checks and I'll do this either the first evening, when the line whittles down to nothing, or the very next day. If I've called ship's services a few weeks prior to the cruise to make a deposit to my shipboard account, I don't feel pressured to make a full deposit once I've boarded and can wait a few days to do this. On my first cruise to Hawaii (in 2002) I had deposited $500 to my account, and my congregation had been kind and had deposited another $500 to my account, meaning that I didn't have to make any deposit once I was aboard (hint hint to any church members who might be reading this ... I board the Zaandam in October to go to Hawaii again).

[Navy_Chief]

So there are a few of us on the board that use the "Carl Malden Method" of using American Express Traveler's Cheques to handle accounts and there are the Credit Card folks.

Here is the question: Nobody seems to have had the experiance Brian had (or claim it here), BUT how many people had been what I like to call "Nickle and Dimed" or charged after the fact with small charges they can't account for say, $20 or $30 or even $10 that you had to go tussle with the cruise line over a month AFTER you got back and saw the bill (be honest with yourselves here, I'm not expecting an answer, just making a point)? How Many people just "Let it slide" (and how many instances of $10 just lined someone's pockets because they "Let it Slide")?

My answer (and I'll bet all of the Traveler's Cheque folks) is never. Our business was concluded the minute they handed me the receipt marked "PAID IN FULL". I will say that I have argued charges on the bill at the Front Desk which get removed 99.9% of the time, on the spot, when I show up with my "Book Keeping" but NEVER afterwords as they don't have a Credit Card number to charge to and I have never received a bill in the mail after the fact (if I did, they wouldn't get a dime. They're going to need to drag me and my "Book Keeping" to Small Claims Court).

[gizmo]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

Like you, we use a credit card for ship board charges and for the same reasons feel this is best. We do bring travelers checks for on shore expenses.


Personally, I feel the cash way seems the safest way to protect your self against fruadulant charges as well as not having to write that large check to the credit card company when the bill comes due.
I agree, different strokes for different folks, but in IMO I do not see "having to write the large check " as a logical reason.

How Many people just "Let it slide"
I have never been charged anything after I left the ship. While on board, there have been a couple of charges on my account that were not mine and I had no problem having them removed.

My rating of payment methods:

Credit card - Best IMO. They will dispute charges for you. I prefer Amex. ;)
Travelers checks - Good method but once it is paid for, that is it. No way could you dispute anything. Any significate purchase on shore goes on Amex.
Cash - Not for me since I think it is not a good idea to carry around large sums of money.
Pre Pay - Not for me, since I rather have the money in my bank account, not the cruise line's.
Debit card - The worse choice which I would never consider. I don't even use them day to day. I think this thread shows why a debit card is not exactly a great choice of payment. :eek:

[shakespeare]

We have never been charged anything after departing a cruise. We have cruised X a lot, Princess and RCL a few times and HAL once. One thing that I do like about Celebrity is that you can check your account on the TV, so there is no need to go to the front desk. I keep all my receipts for on board purchases and tally them daily so that I know what we are spending. We use our credit card for everything and pay it in full at the end of the month. I check it on line so that I keep track of my balance. It also gives me a good view of how we are spending our money and I hardly ever write checks any more. We use a Marriott Rewards Visa card and have gotten quite a few free hotel stays and several trips using points. I also feel safer using a credit card as we can dispute any charges that are made in error. I realize this is not for everyone, but it works very well for us.

One thing about this problem that confuses me is that Brian mentions that Scotty was aware of the problem with the accounts when he disembarked, yet Brian was shocked to get the charges on his account. It is a big mess, and I hope it gets straightened out soon. I read Brian's review and although he certainly is entitled to his opinion, I don't think spending two days on a Celebrity cruise is enough to condemn the whole cruise line. Of course the accounting problem adds fuel to the fire. I think that since Scotty was aware that Brian's account was charged, he should have made more of an effort to clear it up while on board. This doesn't excuse Celebrity from not resolving the problem quickly, but certainly added to the whole mixup.

Liz

[xpcdoojk]

Using a credit card does not indicate in any way that you don't have the cash or can't pay in cash.

Personally I don't carry cash. But when I charge on my credit card I immediately deduct it off my checking account because it's money spent. I don't owe a dime on any cc account.

There are a lot of reasons to use a credit card and one of them is proven right here on this thread. It's a safety device against just this sort of thing. Brian could call his CC company and they would not require him to pay that amount until the situation is straightened out. It would still be a pain but he wouldn't be sitting there $1500 in the hole!

So I wouldn't be so vehement in putting down credit card use. Not everyone uses them to be up to their ears in debt ... not to mention the ton of perks we get for using credit cards.

As far as I'm concerned, credit cards are the safest method of payment.

Yep, I am 47 and I am not rich, and I have never carried a balance over on my credit card. However if I was in Brian's exact situation because I would have given them my credit card instead of my debit card. I would have gotten home and a couple of weeks later I would have gotten a statement from the credit card company. Which would have outraged me, whereupon, I would type up a letter (as if I was writing on Cruise Critic about the experience) and I would have put the $1500 in dispute with the credit card company. I would not have to ask friends or anyone else for a loan so that I could survive a holiday weekend because my money would still be safely in my bank. I would not suffer any real crisis at all because we know that it was a mistake on X's part, and eventually the credit card company and X would resolve the issue.

So, while it may be prudent to only use cash, there are a lot of reasons that it is not necessarily a panacea especially in cases like Brian's. YMMV and JMHO.

jc

[elmorejj]

Maybe a lot of readers do not believe in nor carry a CC but there are instances where you have to have one. If you are booking a hotel online or by phone, you have to give them a CC number. The same goes for hiring a car. Also, I would never even think of booking a cruise with anything but a CC. Remember when Rennaissance went under, the ones who booked with cash, had to stand in line with the rest of Rens creditors..........jean:cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

I'm almost speechless (but don't worry ... not quite;) )! I can't believe this argument:D ! Is everyone for real?

Gizmo, I'm 100% in agreement with your ratings. I'm not sure why NavyChief is so vehement since I never said a word about it not being everyone's right to do what they like. I appreciate his service to his country in defending our right to do as we choose. All I did was point out the benefits of using a credit card.

How can one "not believe" in a credit card? Not suggesting you should use one, but if one is prudent in their financial planning a credit card is exactly the same as accummulating the money upfront and plopping it down as you board the HAL ship. Only difference is we plop it down a month later. How is that different?

To top it off, I have some recourse when problems like Brian's occur. The only charge I have ever received after disembarking was settled immediately and I never had to pay a dime of it.

So while I'm in support of "to each his own" , I can't imagine anyone arguing they'd rather write a big check before the fact then after the fact.

It's much like going into a restaurant and giving the Maitre D' a few hundred dollars up front for dinner and telling him you'll collect the difference on your way out. LOL! I don't think so!!!:D

[Krazy Kruizers]

WOW - I didn't realize how this thread has taken off the last few days since I last read it.

I am with the majority - use credit card - easier to dispute a charge.

Never pay upfront and don't even own a debit card.

That's just my 2 cents worth.

[RevNeal]

Heather,

I didn't realize that an argument was going on. :)
At least, my read of the post doesn't detect any animosity.
Perhaps I'm missing something?

As for what has been said here, it might help the discussion a bit if it were realized that there may be historical and practical reasons why some people either will not or cannot use a credit card to pay their onboard expenses. For instance, up until about a year ago my reasons own were twofold: (1) I am gun-shy about using credit cards in all but "must use" situations due to a history of poor financial judgement, and (2) the simple fact that I didn't have enough free credit to be able to pass the "pre-authorization test" on all but a 7 day cruise.

Relative to reason number 1: it has taken me years to dig myself out of the credit-hole I buried myself in and I long-ago vowed that I would never allow myself to get into such a hole again; the best way for me to fulfill my vow has been for me to live by the "pay as you go" method. If I could qualify for an AMEX Card I would get one ... but, apparently, my history is still too fresh for them to issue me another card :(. Perhaps a few more years of consistent financial solvency will change their minds? In the meantime, when I do use a credit card (when I am in a "have to" situation, like hotel and car rentals, etc.) I do, and I pay off the balance in full within the grace period (or as soon as I absolutely can). This is resulting in my credit-line being slowly expanded on my two "real" credit cards ... with the result being that I am, only just now, capable of passing the the "pre-authorization test" on a longer cruise.

In short, some people CAN use credit cards, but prefer the cash method for various reasons. Others simply CAN'T use credit cards for such purchases because they can't pass the credit solvency tests which the cruise lines apply. IMHO, for both groups paying by travelers checks is probably the "best" alternative method. It is the safest in terms of carrying financial instruments with you; it is also the simplest, in that the ship will change travelers checks without a fee and fairly painlessly, too. Making a pre-cruise debit-card deposit to one's account via ship's services is probably the second-best plan, as far as convenience and safety is concerned; granted, it means one loses control of one's money to the cruise line even before one boards the ship, but for most people who need to use the "pay as you go" method this point is unimportant (they wouldn't have been earning any interest on their money anyway -- or, at least, not enough interest for it to really matter). My church members have been wonderful to me in making handsome deposits into my shipboard accounts prior to nearly every cruise I've taken since 2001. This loving practice of theirs has cut down my final onboard expenses by giving me a starting positive balance in my account. By adding a small amount to that balance I've even been able to make a cruise without having to make any further onboard deposits at all, and have even received a tiny amount of cash back at the end of the cruise. While this might seem silly to some, it is also a more enjoyable experience than actually owing money at the end ... and immeasurably better than paying interest charges on what one has had to put on a credit card and cannot cover within the grace period.

For those who can, and who do not have any personal qualms about securing their onboard account with a credit card, I suspect that this is probably the best, simplest, and safest method for them. For those who either can't or who are not comfortable doing this, there ARE alternatives. And, no matter which group one falls in, having alternatives is ALWAYS a good thing. :)

[elmorejj]

Greg, I understand where you are coming from. May I ask a personal question? If you don`t want to answer, just tell me to MYOB!! Do you book and pay for your cruises with cash also?........jean:cool:

[lvtotrvl1]

Go Revneal!!!! I have been reading these posts, wondering when they would end(if ever:) ). People do certain things for reasons of their own. I really can't believe how long this subject has lasted.

[cechase]

[QUOTE=Navy_Chief] Nobody seems to have had the experiance Brian had (or claim it here), BUT how many people had been what I like to call "Nickle and Dimed" or charged after the fact with small charges they can't account for say, $20 or $30 or even $10 that you had to go tussle with the cruise line over a month AFTER you got back and saw the bill (be honest with yourselves here, I'm not expecting an answer, just making a point)? /QUOTE]

Hello Chief, just popped over here from the Celebrity forum to see if this thread was continuing on! From time to time on the Celebrity forum you will see one or two posts about post disembarkation charges. Most of them seem to relate to a charge for the really great beach towels which are provided to the pax. Usually, it turns out to be an overzealous cabin steward, but now and then an absent minded pax, who packs them - because they are left on the bed and not the bathroom.

In five cruises on Celebrity, we have never had a problem with our accounts and we use a credit card. We also daily or every other day check our account on the TV in our cabin. We also keep our copy of the charge slip and use them to compare with the final statement which is slipped under the door our last night of the cruise. I agree that checking on your account takes very little time. Perhaps my four years as a supply corps officer gave me a little bit of experience in reconciling accounts. :D

[waterbug1]

This horse is dead, bit the dust, in the big sleep, bought the pine condo, checked out, croaked, got the halo, crossed the great divide, joined the angels, had his swan song, is feeding the fishes, is living impaired, the curtain has gone down, taps have been played, daisies are being pushed up.

I would add “checked out” and “cashed in” but I’m afraid the debate about cash versus credit cards will start again.:D

[RevNeal]

Greg, I understand where you are coming from. May I ask a personal question? If you don`t want to answer, just tell me to MYOB!! Do you book and pay for your cruises with cash also?........jean:cool:

Sure thing, Jean. It depends upon how much the cruise costs. If it's cheap enough that, after making the deposit, the final amount due is less than a thousand dollars (and this can sometimes be the case, even with the single supplement figured in!) I will usually just pay the cruise off with my Check/Debit card (I have a $1000 per-day charge limit on that card ... a good security feature when actual dollars are backing up an account). If the amount due is more than a thousand but less than my credit line I will usually pay it with my credit card and then pay-off the credit card within the grace-period. Given my history I don't like using the credit cards this way, but so long as I stick to my principle of not spending money I don't have I'm safe. If the final amount due is more than my credit limit, however, I will usually pay by personal check; if the TA I'm using doesn't accept a personal check -- and some don't -- a Cashiers Check is easy to get at the bank. That's how I'm paying off my Hawaii Cruise in October.

A few times in the past I have paid off cruises in two or three big installments using my debit card. For example, if the final due-date is July 15 and the amount due is $2800 I might make two installments (one in May and one in June) of $933 each, and then a last installment of $934 on the final due date. This works ok, and is easy, but I don't like sending that much money in so far in advance of the due date. I would rather just save the money up in an interest bearing account and reap a tiny benefit myself. Also, it's not always smart to send in one's final payments so far in advance of the final due-date: if the price drops it's easier to get the Line to honor the drop if one hasn't paid than it is to get the Line to honor it if one has paid (and given that it's notoriously difficult to get the Line to honor a price drop in the the first place, why complicate things?) I HAVE been known to pay the final amount off in two installments, one tendered a week before the due date and one on the due date. That works too and has the advantage of not tying up one's money too soon.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Heather,

I didn't realize that an argument was going on. :)
At least, my read of the post doesn't detect any animosity.
Perhaps I'm missing something?.....................

Greg, no I don't think so:) ! Did I say there was an argument? If there were one(I considered all this a discussion), you can have an argument without there being any animosity.

We're all very opinionated with strong feelings on many subjects. This is just another one of those.

As far as credit vs. cash, all I did was point out the benefits of using credit. I understand (as a reformed way-over-my-head credit card user) that people have reasons for staying away from cards. But one can change their bad habits and if they're able to do that, all I tried to say was there are several benefits to using credit.

And one is you won't be $1500 in the hole over a mess-up like this. That's all I'm saying:D and I'm sticking to it.

[RevNeal]

This horse is dead, bit the dust, in the big sleep, bought the pine condo, checked out, croaked, got the halo, crossed the great divide, joined the angels, had his swan song, is feeding the fishes, is living impaired, the curtain has gone down, taps have been played, daisies are being pushed up.

I would add “checked out” and “cashed in” but I’m afraid the debate about cash versus credit cards will start again.:D

Gee, waterbug1, I sure wish it were over ... but it's not.
You see ... as of the last e-mail I received from Brian, RCCL/Celebrity had STILL not refunded his money. According to their "Mr Marley", they transferred the funds on Tuesday, but as of Thursday night Brian's Bank still had NO record of any such transfer even pending, much less being posted. According to Brian's bank, it shouldn't take more than a day for such an electronic transfer to process, so if it was executed on Tuesday it should have posted no later than Wednesday evening ... only, it didn't. Given that it is now Friday, this means that RCCL/Celebrity didn't execute a transfer on Tuesday, like they claimed. Indeed, had they executed it on Wednesday it should have posted on Thursday, but it didn't ... nor was it even pending when Brian checked last night. This means that they either haven't executed it at all, or they did so on Thursday and it is only just now pending at Brian's bank. If I were Brian, I wouldn't hold my breath on receiving any refund anytime sooner than next week ... despite RCCL/Celebrity's claims to the contrary.

Meanwhile, the other passengers have been charged for their onboard account bills. So ... Celebrity is now sitting on TWICE the amount owed them, will not let go of what they erroneously took from Brian, is continuing to spin fictions about the entire matter, and apparently refuses to repair the whole mess while claiming that they already have.

Are we having fun, yet?

[RevNeal]

As far as credit vs. cash, all I did was point out the benefits of using credit. I understand (as a reformed way-over-my-head credit card user) that people have reasons for staying away from cards. But one can change their bad habits and if they're able to do that, all I tried to say was there are several benefits to using credit.

And one is you won't be $1500 in the hole over a mess-up like this. That's all I'm saying and I'm sticking to it.

I understand, and I understood, and I agree. :D
Another way to keep from getting into a mess-up like this is to settle in cash and leave them no recourse for raping your account. :D Once I paid a final sum due (not much, but I didn't have the cash) on a shipboard account with my check/debit card. Nothing bad happened ... they processed only what I owed, not what someone else owed too ... but, given these events, I think I'll be VERY cautious about doing that again in the future.

[HeatherInFlorida]

[QUOTE]................. According to their "Mr Marley", they transferred the funds on Tuesday, but as of Thursday night Brian's Bank still had NO record of any such transfer even pending, much less being posted. ..................

So I'm thinkin' ..... maybe there's a horse involved after all!!! Maybe they sent the $$ by pony express!!!

:D (.......... just a little humor to lighten the day ... couldn't help myself ...)

[GMoney]

This horse is dead, bit the dust, in the big sleep, bought the pine condo, checked out, croaked, got the halo, crossed the great divide, joined the angels, had his swan song, is feeding the fishes, is living impaired, the curtain has gone down, taps have been played, daisies are being pushed up.

I would add “checked out” and “cashed in” but I’m afraid the debate about cash versus credit cards will start again.:D

Ain't that the truth! 180 posts and over 7000 views for this thread. But it looks like I'm part of the problem... :)

Greg - You seem unusually heavily invested in the OP's issue. Are you his spokesman? :D ;) Is there anyway you can get him to give an update? The first person accounts were the most relevant. Thanks!

[Oceanwench]

Threads with even the least little bit of controversy always get the most hits! :p

As for me, I have about $25 in my purse.
And an Am Ex, Visa and MC ...
:D

[tech]

Heather,

These are great lines :D

"It's much like going into a restaurant and giving the Maitre D' a few hundred dollars up front for dinner and telling him you'll collect the difference on your way out. LOL! I don't think so!!!:D "


"So I'm thinkin' ..... maybe there's a horse involved after all!!! Maybe they sent the $$ by pony express!!! " :)

Thanks for the humor :D

[aaerobear]

As we all know "mistakes do happen" as proof, on our last HAL cruise on the Maasdam. There were four of us in 2 cabins, each responsible for his own bills. On the second day of the cruise, I got a message from the FD (that will be front desk for the rest of the time) that "You did NOT leave a credit card on file and need to come to the FD and provide one asap"

Quite a suprise to me, as i had, indeed given them my CC when I checked in in FLL.

Two days later one of my friends in the next cabin got the same message. He, also had provided his CC at check-in.

The next day, my roommate got the, by now, dreaded message and off we went for another visit to the FD. While we were there, we asked if they intended to send the message to the last of our group as it seemed they were headed in that direction. You guessed it...He got the dreaded message 2 days later (now 7 days into the cruise).

When all was said and done, they had re-run each of our Credit cards because of a "failure" on the part of the check-in staff in FLL. I would not accept that as an excuse, as the woman who checked us in was very very thorough and made sure that each of us was processed properly. I guess it may have to do with the new computer system (from Princess) and the different proceedures for check-in in different cities.

In the end, it was all worked out, but was very frustrating at the time. Did it ruin my cruise??? Hell no!!!! Did it irritate me??? Yup!! Was it taken care of??? You bet!!!

Ed

[Grumpy1]

[quote=revneal]

So I'm thinkin' ..... maybe there's a horse involved after all!!! Maybe they sent the $$ by pony express!!!

:D (.......... just a little humor to lighten the day ... couldn't help myself ...) Maybe X thinks Wells Fargo is still the old stagecoach line, so therefore must use Pony Express.

[booboo29]

As we all know "mistakes do happen" as proof, on our last HAL cruise on the Maasdam. There were four of us in 2 cabins, each responsible for his own bills. On the second day of the cruise, I got a message from the FD (that will be front desk for the rest of the time) that "You did NOT leave a credit card on file and need to come to the FD and provide one asap"


Friends we were traveling with had a similar problem on our last cruise. They are married, use the same card number, but have different last names. They were called and told they needed to register a card, but had done so shoreside. We think the problem in this case was there was a 3rd person registered to the cabin that none of us knew. The scary part was that when my friend scanned his card to get off the ship in the first port, someone elses photo showed up on the screen. Likely, the mysterious 3rd passenger. Even scarier, no one questioned it. The next day he went to the FO and told them about it and they re-took his photo.
Later in the cruise, when we reached St Thomas, they were calling for a MR._________from cabin #____ to see immigration officials. The cabin # was the cabin number of our friends. Apparently this mystery man was from Canada, as they had him down as a non US citizen and that also explained why my friends received the newspaper from Canada everyday. We were all a little interested in how the billing would be handled in the end. Was mystery man charging things to the room??? No one could explain it, that was for sure.
Everything ended up being fine on their final bill and their charge card bill. Someone thought it may have been the passenger who was in the cabin last trip and for whatever reason, his information didn't get purged out of the system.

Now, on the topic of Brian and his $1500, I am so sorry to hear that it is not resolved as of yet. Our experience on the Horizon a few years ago was less than positive and our experience with Customer Service for X was even worse. We have our fingers crossed for you on this one. Good Luck and I hope you haven't had to resort to eating stale bread and crackers!:eek:

Frank and Jennifer

[HeatherInFlorida]

LOL, Grumpy! Yes! That must be it:D ! They probably thought they had to use time travel as welll!!! LOL ... too funny.

Tech, thanks for noticing. Most folks aren't in a funny mood today, but sometimes you have to laugh a little, right?

I hope Brian knows that I'm in no way making fun of his situation. But sometimes when threads get to this point a little humor can go a long way.

I hope Brian will let us know when he gets this fixed.

Aaerobear, this happened on a HAL cruise??? Surely not:eek: !!!! I was under the impression such mistakes could only happen on Celebrity;) !!

[bepsf]

RCCL/X finally made good last night - the refund was posted to my account this am. The date the item was submitted was June 1 - several days later than when they told me they'd "already processed" the refund.

At the same time, WF made a "provisionary credit" to my account - I've contacted WF who have been very helpful and considerate thoughout this ordeal - they'll be removing the credit and also crediting me for the $109 in overage charges from my account tonight. (Thank goodness I won't have to deal w/ RCCL/X over that too....)

I appreciate the works of kindness and support from you good friends here - especially Rev Greg who checked in on me every day. He understood that the stress of my financial situation was compounded buy the incompetance, idiocy and outright lies from RCCL/X. Those combined w/ the haranguing villification from certain folks who post on CC.com was just too much to deal with - so I stepped away from here for a few days until this became sorted out.

[RuthC]

Oh happy day!
Congratulations, Brian. Now go and have a relaxing weekend. You earned it.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

Brian, I am so glad this had finally been resolved and you can put all of this behind you. It has been good that Greg was there for your support, just know that many others of us are as well. Hopefully this weekend can be a lot less stressful and you can relax, take a deep breath and enjoy.

[GMoney]

Oh good - no more drama!

[xpcdoojk]

Glad you have been made whole. :)

Villification was never intended from this quarter. ;)

See what a great weekend you are now going to have!

jc

[Tricia724]

Good for you, Brian....now you can breathe again. Every experience benefits somebody....in your case you have probably made a lot of people more cautious about how they handle their shipboard accounts and maybe even saved somebody else a bad experience.

[RevNeal]

EEEEXcellent. :)
I'm so pleased that this is FINALLY over.
And, I'm pleased to read that WF has refunded your overage charge. That would have been an annoying charge to have to pay! :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

...................... Those combined w/ the haranguing villification from certain folks who post on CC.com was just too much to deal with - so I stepped away from here for a few days until this became sorted out.

Brian, I'm just so glad you got it straightened out and your bank account is back where it should be.

Your comment above upsets me greatly. I'm hoping that since you were so understandably upset you may have misread or misunderstood some posts on this thread, but I've been following it closely throughout and I have seen absolutely no one on here villify you in any way.

People were having some fun with the thread while you were gone, but no one ever said anything other than this was a horrible mistake on Celebrity's part and everyone expressed support and sympathy for you.

[RevNeal]

Your comment above upsets me greatly. I'm hoping that since you were so understandably upset you may have misread or misunderstood some posts on this thread, but I've been following it closely throughout and I have seen absolutely no one on here villify you in any way.

Unless I'm mistaken (and, Brian, please correct me if I am), I think Brian's reference was to what was said to and about him on Celebrity's CC board.

[xpcdoojk]

The X thugs can be brutal.

jc

[bepsf]

Unless I'm mistaken (and, Brian, please correct me if I am), I think Brian's reference was to what was said to and about him on Celebrity's CC board.

Quite so.
...and from some a few of their regular posters who have crossed over to here and the G&L boards to contribute their snide comments.

Thanks again for your warm wishes everyone.
:)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Yes ... phew!!!:) I emailed Brian to be sure because he's my friend and I'd feel terrible if any of us were misunderstood.

I think Brian will be having a much better weekend now that this is sorted out. All's well that ends well.

[Navy_Chief]

Hoooorayyy Congrats for the "Light at the end of the tunnel" Brian!

[crystal808]

Brian:

Just a suggestion to distract you:

Think Yellow Cabana. :)

Have a great weekend!

Paul ;)

[cruznon]

Brian,
So glad to hear that things finally got resolved for you. Have a great weekend--you deserve it.

[K&RCurt]

Awesome news Brian. I hope you can relax and enjoy your weekend now that this stupidity isn't weighing on you.

[MumsTheWord*]

Brian,
So glad that this nightmare is behind you....:)

Your quote from your signature,
"A journey of a thousand miles begins with a cash advance",

is truly a profound statement considering all that you've been through!

Now maybe you should add an additional quote like...
"A journey of 2 days on Mercury ends with___________________(you fill in the blank!):eek:

My Best to you Bepsf!

[tech]

It has to be a better weekend, he can now eat !

This has not been the kind of weight loss plan I would like to experience.:)

[mechcc]

Brian - So happy to hear everything is straightened out. About time, but at least it seems things have gotten better.

Do want you to know that we have also been guilty of using our debit card in the past for our shipboard account, as we are of the "if we can't pay cash for a luxury then we won't get it" club. Never ever ever ever again will we put our debit card down. It's either traveler's checks or the credit card. Sorry to say but your misery has taught at least one fellow cruiser a major lesson. We owe you at least one round in Oct.

Again - go have a wonderful weekend. You deserve it! And raise a toast to the X cheerleaders - they really need to get a grip!

HMC - CHAMPAGNE - FUN - PINNICLE GRILL - LAUGHS - GREAT BEDS - GRAND TURKS - SUN - HOLLAND AMERICA - HAL O WEEN DAM CRUISE

[MBeamTX]

I've avoided getting a debit card because I'm afraid that money could get sucked out of my account before I even knew it, and you just don't have the level of recourse that you do with a credit card. Brian's unfortunate experience just reinforces my decision to stick with cash, paper checks and plastic for now.

I'm glad it's been resolved for you, Brian.

Happy cruising,
Susan

[sail7seas]

Brian......

I'm so happy they finally got it worked out and refunded your money.

What a disgrace what they put you through to correct their error.

You deserve a GREAT weekend. Go find something really fun to do.

[HeatherInFlorida]

......................
And raise a toast to the X cheerleaders - they really need to get a grip! ...........


Oh for heaven's sake, Maggie:) . Why don't you mosey on over to Gail (Tugger's) Prinsendam Roll Call thread (Amazon Explorer) and read what happened to her on her HAL cruise. She still hasn't recovered. Talk about nightmares!!! If I had to choose, I have to say I'd take Brian's over hers.

I'll even help you get there: amazon explorer prinsendam april 2006 - Page 5 - Cruise Critic Message Boards (http://boards1.cruisecritic.com/showthread.php?t=245896&page=5) (it's post #192). Gail was posting how much she was loving HAL until she became ill. Her story might lend some balance to your thinking.

[thomasale]

The X thugs can be brutal.

jc

Any thugs by definition are brutal ( a brutal ruffian or assasin per Mr. Webster)so you could leave x out of this equation and it would still be "mathematically" correct

[peaches from georgia]

I, too, am glad Brian's problem is straightened out as I know we all are. However, I have to laugh at this talk of "X cheerleaders". Let's be honest- just read any critical review of a HAL cruise or ship and you will see this HAL board has it's apologists, too. There are always posters on every board, incl. HAL's, who can find no fault with "their" cruiseline or favorite ship and blame the reviewer for everything, not just X fans. ;)

[Bramcruiser]

There are always posters on every board, incl. HAL's, who can find no fault with "their" cruiseline or favorite ship and blame the reviewer for everything, not just X fans. ;)

True, peaches, true! Its not like the execs and employees at HAL walk on water. Some close but not quite!:D Brian had a horrible incident on an aging ship and all the fates were just against him on that particular cruise ever since he won -didn't collect-and won finally his cruise. If this was 1912 he'd probably would have ended up on the Titanic.

I also think attacking a reviewer for a bad review kind of silly. Its like the cruise directors who do want everyone to fill out those comment cards but then only want good stuff reported.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Peaches, well said ... and far more delicate than I:) . But it's just all so silly when we start thinking that "our" line can do no wrong and the "other" line can do no right. Everyone makes mistakes.

[LAFFNVEGAS]

I also think attacking a reviewer for a bad review kind of silly. Its like the cruise directors who do want everyone to fill out those comment cards but then only want good stuff reported.

Yes, but like any large corporation that does surveys they must ask for the good stuff to be reported because otherwise only the ones that are upset will fill it out and complain. I work for a Toyota Dealership like all car manufacturers they also do surveys. It is a WELL KNOW FACT that Toyota produces a good vehicle but the average consumer that is extremely happy with their car will not bother to fill out surveys and write letters complimenting them unless they are asked to.So if they did not ask for the survey from those that are happy they would only hear from the complainers or problems and then the Toyota vehicles would appear that they were bad which we know is not true. All HAL is doing is saying if you were happy with your cruise please let us know. Now truthfully how often do you write a letter complimenting a company on their outstanding job or to a restaurant that gave you good service. But if something horrible happened we all would be immediately complainingand writing those letters. Based on that most companies would look like they are failing. I frankly have no problems giving HAL a good survey and don't find anything wrong with them asking for it.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Lisa, you are so 100% right on with your post. The sad fact is that when people are contented and happy with the product and service received, they're far less likely to fill out a comment card then those who are disgruntled.

Having worked in customer service myself for the better part of my life (or worse;) ), I make a point of writing positive letters, filling out comment cards, etc., when I'm happy with the way things have gone ... and that's most of the time. It's very hard to make me unhappy on a cruise or anywhere else.

[NoNoNanette]

It's very hard to make me unhappy on a cruise or anywhere else.

BIG THUMBS UP, kiddo!

I've never had a "bad" vacation. Dom and I always "make our own fun". :)

[Happy ks]

I smell a made-for-TV movie here? ;) Wonder who they'll get to play Brian???

Never would I want to watch a saga such as this. Boring.

We all have our troubles in life. Many of us have had travel snafu's. I don't post mine in an open forum because I think they are.....boring and I want to forget about them and only remember the good times. We've had some wonderful memories come out of even our worst travel experiences, you just have to have a positive outlook and look for the humor in the situation.

Use a credit card next time. Far easier to fix the problems than a debit card.

[mechcc]

[quote=HeatherInFlorida]Oh for heaven's sake, Maggie:) .

Heather - Hopefully you misunderstood my meaning. I was referring to people on the X board who were down right ugly towards Brian and his whole ordeal. These would be the same ones that upset Brian to the point that he took a few days off from the boards. Everyline has those folks who love their line and try to minimize others problems and take up for their cruiseline no matter what. Perfectly understood. But it seems that X has several people who go beyond that and get extremely mean in their attacks on anyone who dares to complain that X may have contributed to a less then good vacation. The people are just a whole lot nicer on this site and that's why I prefer being over here.

I originally started posting here on HAL because we were going to do a HAL cruise. When we booked a X cruise, I ventured over there and was totally astonished of the differences in how disentions of opinions are handled. Still we are looking forward to our X cruise and hope that we have the great time you did on yours.

[dakrewser]

Use a credit card next time. Far easier to fix the problems than a debit card.

Excuse me??? The cruise line screws up royally, but it's the cruiser who should change?

And it wouldn't make it easier to "fix" at all, perhaps slightly easier to endure - but no one should have to endure it.

[dougnewmanatsea]

Everyline has those folks who love their line and try to minimize others problems and take up for their cruiseline no matter what.
I have always wondered what happens if these people have a bad experience on "their" line :rolleyes: !

Let's face it... All cruise lines screw up occasionally.

The good ones, when they do, fix it!

[RevNeal]

When the Holland America Line screws up in some area -- and, in my experience, they have from time to time -- they have always managed to make things right fairly quickly and with little fuss or muss. Once they mistakenly charged me double for a deposit (I had booked directly with them before transferring to a TA). I suppose they just thought i was booking for two and not one, but it was still very annoying. They reversed the charge for the extra amount without batting an eye and it was back in my account by the end of the first day.

[Happy ks]

A charge back is far easier to accomplish on a credit card than an atm card, that's just the way it is. Your credit card company will work with you and help, good luck with the bank, especially if you have signed a slip.

Did this Brian actaully "check out" of the ship, or just walk off? If he checked out, his account should have been closed.

Mistakes happen and we deal with them, it's just a part of life sometimes. How we cope is different for everyone, I prefer not to get my britches in a twist over things like this. Yes, this type of thing has happened to us in the past. We were once charged for someone elses cruise. A call to the credit card co. and the TA was all it took.

[sail7seas]

Did this Brian actaully "check out" of the ship, or just walk off? If he checked out, his account should have been closed.


Brian checked out. It is my impression from what he has written here that he went to the desk, informed them he was leaving and settled his bill.

[RevNeal]

A charge back is far easier to accomplish on a credit card than an atm card, that's just the way it is. Your credit card company will work with you and help, good luck with the bank, especially if you have signed a slip.

Actually, I think I made the deposit I was referencing in my prior post using my Visa Check Card, not a credit card. I usually do. Yet, HAL didn't have any trouble immediately correcting and refunding the doubled portion of the deposit ... the transfer back was completed by bank-close that very evening. It's wasn't much money ... just the amount of a 7-day cruise deposit for one person. Still ... it's not credit we're talking about, here, it's dollars. And it was dollars that Brian was upset about ... about 1500 of them which had been fraudulently kited from his account by a company which he had trusted with access to his financial instruments.

Did this Brian actaully "check out" of the ship, or just walk off? If he checked out, his account should have been closed.

Re-read the initial post on this thread. "This" Brian makes it VERY clear that he formally "checked out" of the ship at the front desk. This is PRECISELY why the entire event is just so WRONG, and why the mistake so egregious. Of course his account should have been closed when he checked out ... and it probably was. But, apparently, someone in accounting got lazy and just lumped all the charges from the same room into the primary account and billed it all to him, even though he had checked off the ship and his account "closed" a full 9 days prior to the last charges that were applied to that account. This just sounds like sloppy accounting. What amazes me, more than the error, is the obstinate unwillingness of the company to correct their error. Yes, mistakes DO happen ... but when a company makes mistakes like this it is reasonable for one to expect that they will own up to the mistake and correct it. One doesn't expect them to first deny that a mistake was made, then refuse to accept responsibility for the error, then suggest that you fix it for them so that they don't have to bother with it, then try to delay fixing the mistake once it becomes clear that no other solution is viable, then lie (twice) about having fixed it and blame the delay on another party. I mean ... making the mistake was bad enough, but to then have to be dragged kicking and screaming, lying and obfuscating, for a full business week before actually fixing the mistake is just CRAZY. It's also not professional.

[dakrewser]

A charge back is far easier to accomplish on a credit card than an atm card, that's just the way it is.

Well, no. The procedure is essentially the same.

Your credit card company will work with you and help, good luck with the bank, especially if you have signed a slip.

And Brian's bank was working with him. It was Celebrity who kept lying about things.

Did this Brian actaully "check out" of the ship, or just walk off? If he checked out, his account should have been closed.

"This" Brian, (or did you mean this "Brian"? either way, it sounds demeaning to me) is well known to those of us who regularly visit the HAL boards. What brought you around for this discussion, so far from your usual haunts?

Mistakes happen and we deal with them, it's just a part of life sometimes. How we cope is different for everyone, I prefer not to get my britches in a twist over things like this. Yes, this type of thing has happened to us in the past. We were once charged for someone elses cruise. A call to the credit card co. and the TA was all it took.

Perhaps you should review the entire saga of Celebrity, Brian and this cruise before blowing off what is just a small part (but the 'crowning touch') to this fiasco of a cruise odyssey.

[GMoney]

And it was dollars that Brian was upset about ... about 1500 of them which had been fraudulently kited from his account by a company which he had trusted with access to his financial instruments.


"...fraudulently kited"??? please. c'mon.
I hope charges be pressed for this crime. ;)

Well, I am off to the inaugural sailing of Freedom of the Seas, where I will be using my credit card to secure my account. Have fun with the dead horse! :)

[Copper10-8]

[quote=GMoney]I hope charges be pressed for this crime. ;) /quote]

Don't hold your breath!;)

[RevNeal]

"...fraudulently kited"??? please. c'mon.
I hope charges be pressed for this crime.

Yes ... that was strong language on my part. I was using it to make a point. If *you* were to take my credit card number and use it to fund your shipboard purchases on your upcoming cruise that WOULD be a crime ... right? In a sense, the only substantive difference between that and what happened to Brian is that it was the Line's financial offices that did it.

Now, I don't think their error was intentional, hence criminal charges would not be possible in this case -- besides, the money has now (at long last) been refunded. HOWEVER, what the the Line did could be construed as negligent misuse of financial instruments followed by deliberate obstruction of an investigation of the event by interested parties and financial institutions (Brian, his bank, the two other passengers whose accounts were charged to Brian's account, and their banks); if a pattern could be traced, and dozens or hundreds of other similar cases of negligent accounting be documented, it would make for an excellent civil suit.

Here's a hypothetical ... let's see how you like it: your credit card has been charged $1500 for goods and services which you never authorized, used, purchased, or received. The party which charged your card is a company with which you have done business in the past, but their use of your credit card was unauthorized by you for those specific charges. If intentional, such would be a crime, however we're feeling charitable and will assume it was an honest mistake on the company's part. When they are shown their error, rather than agreeing to correct it their first response is (1) to deny that an error was made. Then, their second response is (2) to inform you that the charges were for goods and services purchased by other customers of their company and that, if you want to be re-imbursed for these charges your best recourse is to go to those other customers and have them pay you back directly. When you point out that you are not their collection agency, they (3) accuse you of being unreasonable and (4) state that your funds will have to be held as a guarantee that those other customers will pay their bills, and that only after this is done can you be re-funded your money. When you remind them that you have not authorized them to use your funds either to pay these expenses or to serve as a guarantee of payment for these other customers' bills and that the company remains in a state of wrongful use of your financial instrument, they (5) finally state that they can refund your money but that it will take 5 working days to process the request .... I could keep going, but my point is made. Was the error felonious? If it were intentional, yes ... it would be a chargeable crime. However, I don't think it was intentional. Their obfuscation of the event AFTER the fact is another matter altogether, and of more serious import.

Yes, the horse is dead. What I still want to know, however, is WHY they fought the refunding of the money for so long.

[thomasale]

"I cancelled a Celebrity cruise to book the one I have on the Volendam.(too many problems with Celeb right now) I paid Celebrity with a debit card in full when I booked it in January (over $4200). I received my refund to my debit card in 2 days after cancelling. First time I have cancelled a cruise. I was surprised at how quickly they refunded my money. I have booked the HAL cruise through my TA as they (HAL) still allow discounts and I received a nice discount and some goodies. My TA does not charge cancellation charges.

BTW the Celebrity cruise (concierge class) was $381 per day (myself and wife) and the HAL is $350 per day Cat AA. This will be my first HAL cruise and I am looking forward to it."

I posted this on another thread but feel it has a place here. I recieved my refund quite promptly. I am sure many others have also. It was not fair the way Brian was treated. I have known little vindictive people to hold things up to make a point. I am not referring to Brians actions as those of a "little vindictive person" but this whole mess could have been predicated by Brians exasperated tone. I believe this could be delivered by Brian. This could have had these unintended and unwarranted consequences. Perceived condecension and annoyance by Brian could have initiated this slow response. If so, this should not be tolerated by Celebrity management.

Rev Neal you of all folks here should know we reap what we sow.

I am just throwing this out as food for thought. I am in no way blaming Brian for what happened, however, he could very well have been the cause.

[peaches from georgia]

Now, I don't think their error was intentional, hence criminal charges would not be possible in this case -- besides, the money has now (at long last) been refunded. HOWEVER, what the the Line did could be construed as negligent misuse of financial instruments followed by deliberate obstruction of an investigation of the event by interested parties and financial institutions (Brian, his bank, the two other passengers whose accounts were charged to Brian's account, and their banks); if a pattern could be traced, and dozens or hundreds of other similar cases of negligent accounting be documented, it would make for an excellent civil suit.

Was the error felonious? If it were intentional, yes ... it would be a chargeable crime. However, I don't think it was intentional. Their obfuscation of the event AFTER the fact is another matter altogether, and of more serious import.

Yes, the horse is dead. What I still want to know, however, is WHY they fought the refunding of the money for so long.

FOUGHT FOR SO LONG- 4 BUSINESS DAYS?

These are serious charges to make - negligent misuse of financial instruments, deliberate obstruction of an investigation, negligent accounting, obfuscation of the event? Fraudulent kiting? Civil suit? Isn't this just going a little overboard? :rolleyes:

[sail7seas]

I am just throwing this out as food for thought. I am in no way blaming Brian for what happened, however, he could very well have been the cause.
__________________
Tom



As long as we are providing food for thought.........gee, I wonder if maybe some folks at Celebrity got a little attitude all their own seeing as Brian left their ship after two days....obviously displeased. Maybe they were a teeny bit sensitive about someone who clearly did not enjoy their product. A bit defensive, shall we say??? Don't know, of course. I'm just providing some food for thought.

Maybe they decided they'd adminster a dose of aggravation to express their own displeasure????

Of course I am only speculating and hypothetising etc.......who knows??? But as long we we're providing food for thought..........;)

[elmorejj]

The knackers yard called and said the dead horse arrived....BUT they are considering charges for cruelty to animals, evidently it had been flogged to death!!!..........jean:cool:

[Ma Bell]

This slamming of cruiselines is ridiculous. Having sailed on both these lines and having good and not so good expertiences on both, I would say they are both good lines and although I give the edge to Celebrity it's just my personal preference. I would not hesitate to sail either. Anyone who has travelled extensively must know that ocassionally there will be problems, regardless of the quality of the product.

I find it amazing that someone would discover a mistake in billing in the morning and then be on a message board in the afternoon stirring the pot. Most people would wait a few days to see if the problem was resolved before starting something like this.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Maggie, I'm so glad I misunderstood you! Thanks for explaining. I honestly think you'll really enjoy your Celebrity cruise, but of course nothing is for sure. Gail's story about her illness now has me a bit worried about the Prinsendam so I'll just hope for the best.

Dave, people "endure" snafus and adversity every single day ... mistakes happen; it's just part of life. If you let it consume you, you go nuts. Once something is ironed out the best thing you can do for yourself is learn the lesson and move on with grace. Without that attitude I'd be a dried up old prune. I'm not.http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/01

And how was it determined that Brian's bank was the "truth-teller" and Celebrity was the "liar"? I mean, how do we actually know that? I have noticed many times that $$$ going from one "bank" to another have a way of hanging in thin air sometimes. It's really quite extraordinary.

Greg, HAL charged me $20 for a deposit recently ... not a mistake I rushed to clear, but in the end I was the one to correct it. To be honest, much too worried they'd catch it at some point and cancel my reservation.

As to your experience with the quick reversal on your card, I've not been so fortunate. Recently I switched cruises on HAL and had to make a new deposit on the new cruise. That hit my card immediately. But for some reasonhttp://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/13 it took considerably longer to credit the original deposit from the cancelled cruise ... I was told it might be 2 to 3 weeks. It was 10 days. But had it been a debit card, I would have been out the $$$ for that time period. It's a puzzle to me that it took so long to credit me yet mere moments to debit me.

235 posts and we still haven't figured out that this is just one more snafu in the craziness we call life? I'm amazed we're not more tangled up more of the time in a sea of computers and "press 1 for ...."http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/08

[arzz]

There is no question that this thread is "beating a dead horse" -- but I cannot resist --

The speculation that Brian somehow caused the cruise line employees to treat him badly by his attitude (see earlier post by Thomasale) does throw me over the edge.

If the question to be debated revolves around the professional behavior of the Celebrity folks, if we assume Thomasale's hypothesis then the question is proved-- it was not Brian's fault but, rather, repeated extremely unprofessional behavior by X employees. Unless, of course, we were to subscribe to the unethical position that employees are allowed to behave in an unprofessional manner and treat customers badly if their tone of voice implies that they are unhappy. NOT

I, honestly, think that Brian is the unfortunate victim of a series of errors, mix ups, and neglectful behavior, on the part of MANY folk who did not conspire to do this to him -- rather the configuration of the stars or some such karma caused a series of occurences that converge to create an incredibly unpleasant and inexcusable TOTAL cruise experience from the moment he "won" his cruise to the moment his debit card was finally credited by X. I invite those who feel otherwise to review in its entirety not just this thread by the other threads in this saga that began with "I won a cruise" -- followed through "I cannot claim the cruise I won" to the review of the cruise to Brian's shipboard illness and lastly this mishandling of Brian's finances. I do not believe anyone conspired to make this happen, but, nevertheless, happen it did and the net result is inexcusable.

['Dam' high seaser]

Well put Arzz!! Thanks for putting it all back into perspective but I am fairly certain that it is not dead yet.:rolleyes:

[dakrewser]

I must agree with arzz.

If the "mistaken" charges was the only problem associated with this cruise, then it could be chalked up to experience. But it's simply the last in a long line of incredibly dumb, stupid moves on Celebrity's part. And, not surprisingly, everyone except Celebrity has come in for blame by some people whose rose-colored glasses are shaped like an "X" :rolleyes:. They've blamed Travelocity, Wells Fargo bank, even Brian himself. I haven't seen it yet, but I'm just waiting for the grand conspiracy theory to surface - Brian orchestrated the whole fiasco, inveigling the travel agency and the bank to conive with him to sully the good name of the cruise line.

[Copper10-8]

Aha, I knew it was only a matter of time! The vast (or is it fast?) right-wing conspiracy theory has reared it's ugly face (or is it head?)!:cool:

[HeatherInFlorida]

Until a few posts ago, no one ever suggested that Brian is at fault for any of this. I never saw that until someone just suggested that perhaps his "tone" might have had an effect. Since I wasn't there and neither were any of us, I have no idea whether his tone had an effect on Wells Fargo or Celebrity.

However, Brian did say that he was understandably aggrevated and did a bit of yelling. I know the feeling ... done it myself when in very similar situations, but we all know you catch more bees with honey and I have never been successful in getting anything done by getting angry with the people I want help from.

I had to have a lot of birthdays before I learned the best way to go about getting what you want ... and it works every single time.

But there is one thing we do know. We have only heard one side of the story. I believe everything Brian has said to be 100% true from his perspective of his experience. However, there is another side. There always is.

[xpcdoojk]

Personally, I still can't imagine leaving a cruise after 2 days. Honestly, the idea would never have entered my mind. I think I could have roughed it thru til the end. I guess I am just a gamer!:D

jc

[gizmo]

OT. Heather, where is Molly ? I miss her pix. :D

[tech]

All this mess aside, Customer Service is getting flakey.

I had a small problem with a medical bill so called the 800 number.

Later in the conversation, I made a remark that someone was making an
omniopent decision. I wasn't yelling or anything. No bad attitude, just preplexed at a decision that did not jive with the insurance rules.

At this point the call center girl in Iowa told me that I was using vulgar language and she was not going to listen to it.

I asked her what I had said, she told me she could not repeat it for she would get in trouble. !!

I guess the word omniopent sounded bad to her and she was going to stop the conversation. :D

I asked if I could speak to a supervisor because I really needed to get an answer.

The supervisor told me that his people were not expected to listen to vulgar language. I assured him that I did not use bad language.

However, he was sure his employee was correct.

At this point I knew I had fallen down the rabbit hole and Alice must be just around the corner ! :D

Anytime a problem comes up that requires pushing the #1, #4 #24 button and then finally getting a person to resolve a problem...I have to get in a comfortable chair, have a snack, drink and a form of entertainment so I can last the amount of time it will take. :)

In Brian's case I probably would have died in the chair, hand on the wine Bottle.

[sail7seas]

Groan......... I feel you pain!!!

We keep thinking it can't get worse but it actually does!!!

[HeatherInFlorida]

OT. Heather, where is Molly ? I miss her pix. :D

http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/08 Ask and you shall receive!! That's what "service" is all about.

So you're saying you didn't like my own smiling face???http://cdn-cf.aol.com/se/smi/0201e05b9a/14

[dougnewmanatsea]

we all know you catch more bees with honey
Isn't it "more flies with honey" (than with vinegar)? At least that's what my late great-grandfather said.

Anyhow, that's neither here nor there! But you are absolutely correct; things always work out better if you're nice to the person you're dealing with - even if they're not nice to you. That said, we all have only a certain amount we can take before we get really peeved! After a while, even the most patient and understanding person in the world will have had enough.

It is, frankly, the job of the customer service employee to deal with - and placate - angry and dissatisfied customers. There is no excuse for being obnoxious (and I am certainly not suggesting that Brian was), but there's also no excuse for a customer service employee who doesn't do his or her job because of the customer's attitude.

At any rate, this is all entirely hypothetical and frankly I doubt that anyone's tone of voice had anything to do with anything.

[HeatherInFlorida]

Isn't it "more flies with honey" (than with vinegar)? At least that's what my late great-grandfather said.

......

Yes!!! And why I typed bees I haven't the foggiest!!! LOL:D ! Thanks, Doug. My brain must have been thinking bees make honey and it slipped.

I have no idea what we'd catch bees with (if we wanted to);) .

[RevNeal]

Personally, I still can't imagine leaving a cruise after 2 days. Honestly, the idea would never have entered my mind. I think I could have roughed it thru til the end. I guess I am just a gamer!:D

JC, I normally would agree with you. I've never left a cruise early, and even if I were sick I think I probably wouldn't myself (not unless there were some very good reasons to leave ... as in danger of death or of seriously infecting/harming others, etc.

This case is alittle different, however, from most cases. Brian was uncomfortable, unhappy, and coming down with Norovirus. And, the day he disembarked his ship was docked IN San Francisco. In other words, it was a short taxi ride from the ship terminal to his apartment. His home was about 20 or so minutes from the ship! Given this factor, I can see WHY he would decide to check himself off the ship.

[RevNeal]

Very well put, arzz. VERY well put.

[RevNeal]

FOUGHT FOR SO LONG- 4 BUSINESS DAYS?

Peaches ... that might not seem long to you, but place it within a bit of context and allow that context to illustrate why it felt so very long and so very wrong and so very frustrating to Brian.

It was "just" 4 business days ... true ... but, remember, there was a 3-day weekend in the middle of it and, during that entire period Brian's bank account stood with a NEGATIVE ballance in the multi-hundred dollar range because of this error.

What if this had been YOUR money, taken in error to pay someone elses' bills? When you call to challenge the charge and to request refunding of your money you are told that they are not going to release your funds back to you because SOMEBODY has to pay those bills and, until they can collect from the rightful debtors, they're going to hold YOUR funds as security. Don't you see SOMETHING wrong in that? Even a little something wrong? It's compounding the erronious billing with an even more erronious argument to justify not transfering the funds back. It's this kind of argument that was tossed at Brian -- along with the idiotic suggestion that he should just collect the money from the two people who owed it to the Line -- that really casts their response in such a negative light for me. WHAT BUSINESS did they have holding Brian's money A SINGLE HOUR past the identification of their error? They should have, immediatly upon realizing the error in their billing, initiated an electronic transfer of funds back to Brian. They didn't.