What are they thinking?

[Brownie Scout]

I'm pretty new here, so I hope I'm not asking something that's already been beaten to death, but I couldn't find the answer in the search function so here goes: Why do all the major cruise lines offer virtually the same itineraries?

The reason I'm asking this on this forum (and I hope it's okay) is because the question came up in the process of my searching for a HAL cruise. Having just returned to cruising after a very long hiatus, I'm going to try all the major lines, but I'm especially eager to sail with HAL because from what I've read so far, I think it's likely to be the best match for me. I especially wanted to try the Volendam, so I checked her schedule, and it seems that she's doing the 10-day Canal route exclusively for the next couple of winter seasons. As it happens, it's almost exactly the same as the one I already have booked on the Brilliance of the Seas, which is another ship I've wanted to try. That made me curious, so I decided to look further.

The more I searched the various lines, the more apparent it became that there's very little variety in many of these routes from one line to the next. Why is that? It would seem to me that the cruise lines would generate more business if each line had some unique destinations, rather than all competing for the same ones, especially among lines that are part of the same parent company. Once the average person has done one itinerary, it's unlikely they'll do it again on another line; only the dedicated fans who just want to sail would be inclined to repeat the same cruise.

I realize, of course, that the choices in the Caribbean are limited, and I'm sure some of the places are real duds, but it still seems counter-productive for everyone to go to the same exact places all the time. Does anyone know what the reasoning is behind this? How do the cruise lines determine their ports of call? There must be several mitigating factors that influence these decisions.

(BTW, I've decided to wait for the 2007 Alaska schedule to come out and will try the Volendam then. Meanwhile, I'm thinking about booking the Oosterdam, since it's a fairly easy trek from where I live to SD. )

[Pudgesmom]

I have two thoughts on your question.

1. The Panama Canal itineraries are limited due to travel time. Generally, these trips are repositioning ones. The cruiselines want to move the ships from Atlantic to Pacific (or vice-versa) in less than two weeks, so the stops are those along a direct route.

2. The larger ships cannot stop at a dock on many smaller islands, and tendering several thousand passengers at every port is impractical and inconvenient for passengers. Also, facilitles at these smaller islands might be overwhelmed by large numbers of people.

If you want a unique itinerary, you might try one of the smaller ships on another cruiseline. I'm a fan of Windstar, also in the Carnival family. Several other small lines like SeaDream, Seaborne and Windjammer stop at offbeat ports.

Having said that, we loved our Alaska cruise on the Statendam, a very close match to the Volendam. I hope you enjoy it as well.

Beth

[sail7seas]

I'm pretty new here, so I hope I'm not asking something that's already been beaten to death, but I couldn't find the answer in the search function so here goes: Why do all the major cruise lines offer virtually the same itineraries?



HI....

Here are a few varieties of different Caribbean Itineraries HAL Offers:
Of course, they are differing dates, different embarkation ports, different length cruises.

Westerdam: (offered for 4 different dates): FLL, Half Moon Cay, at sea, Aruba, Curacao, at sea, at sea, FLL


Westerdam (offered for 6 dates in 2007): FLL, Half Moon Cay, Grand Turk, at sea, Grand Cayman, Cozumel, at sea, at sea, FLL.


Veendam (offered 12 dates in 2007): Tampa, Key West, at sea, Belize City, Guatamala, Cozumel, at sea, Tampa


Veendam (offered dates in 2007): Tampa, at sea, Grand Cayman, Ocho Rios, at sea, Costa Maya, at sea, Tampa.

Westerdam (offered 9 times in 2007): FLL, at sea, Grand Turk, St. Maarten, at sea, Half Moon Cay, FLL



Rather than type the entire Caribbean brochure......I think the above demonstrates variety. These are SOME of the seven day cruises. There are just so many island to which the ships can sail. There are ten and eleven and fourteen etc day cruises. They offer more variety. Other HAL ships sailing the Caribbean in 2007 are Noordam, Maasdam, Volendam, Zuiderdam. I think HAL has about the best variety of all the lines.

Have fun doing a bit more research. Hopefully you'll find the perfect cruise for you.

[Jim Gallup]

Browni eScout,

You already answered your own question. The choices for ports on a Trans-canal cruise are extremely limited. Even the ports they stop at are hardly the best. There were more interesting ports in the past, but these places are now too unstable and dangerous for the ships to stop there anymore.

There are also financial considerations. Most Trans-canal cruises are heavily discounted. Veteran cruisers tend to stay away from these cruises, because they really don't go anywhere interesting. Once you have transited the canal, the thrill is pretty much over. The great majority of cruisers today do not like sea days. Yet a trans-canal cruise has quite a few sea days. The cost of transiting the canal has jumped considerably in recent years. Even a small ship now pays well over $100,000 for a one-way transit. And the distances that need to be covered on a trans-canal cruise are substantial. Have you looked a fuel costs lately?

So we have a combination of discount cruisers, less than interesting ports, too many sea days, too many first time cruisers, and a one-trick pony (the canal). It doesn't make for a really great cruise.

[elmorejj]

Browni eScout,


Most Trans-canal cruises are heavily discounted.





I always thought this was true, but not so these days. The per diem on a Trans Canal is far greater than on other cruises......jean:cool:

[sail7seas]

We are ones that enjoy the one way transits enough to have done that cruise about 5 times. We like the weather we've normally had and enjoy the transit day. We don't always hop off the ship in every port....ports aren't always that important to us in the Caribbean. The choices in recent year for 10 day cruises had become limited so the Canal was one we chose again and again. The prices have been higher per diems than we pay for the same cabin on other Caribbean itineraries. Of course, just the charge by the Canal Authority boosts the price right up front.

[Brownie Scout]

It was the Volendam I wanted to try, so that was the reason for my focus on her itinerary. There are also some other factors in my choices for the Caribbean. Florida is a long distance from where I live, so the 7 day cruises don't seem worth the travel time. Also, since I live right on the Mexican border, the Mexican ports don't appeal to me very much; I like that culture, but I already experience it on a daily basis and would like to see something different. I'll probably do the Maasdam or the Noordam eventually, but since I particularly wanted the Volendam, that was what prompted by inquiry.

As for the poster who said I had answered my own question about the canal, I was asking about the 10 day canal itinerary, not a Trans-canal trip. For the Trans-canal route, HAL actually has more variety of ports than the others: Cartagena, for example, and Guatemala. I was asking about the turn-around cruise that returns to the same port and stays in the Caribbean where there appear to be more options.

[K&RCurt]

Another point to consider regarding common ports of call.

The scheduling of a port for a cruise ship involves investigating, negotiating and scheduling vendors for shore excursions, shops for the "reccomended" shopping lists, port agents etc.

Carnival corp. can do this once and cover ships from Carnival, Costa, Cunard, HAL, Princess, Seabourne and Windstar. If the ships are still full going between the "common" ports, why would the individual lines go out of their way to negotiate these deals for a single port for a limited number of visits?

A case in point is the huge complex Carnival Corp. bulit on Grand Turk. In order to recoupe this investment, most of the Carnival owned brands are now stopping there. Another example is the use of HMC by Carnival and Princess ships while HAL is not sailing in the Caribbean. Using common assets means higher potential profits.

[Brownie Scout]

Thank you Keith! :) That's exactly the kind of information I was looking for! I knew there had to be a method in the cruiseline madness; I just wasn't sure what it was. From a corporate standpoint, what you said makes perfect sense. :D

[kryos]

The more I searched the various lines, the more apparent it became that there's very little variety in many of these routes from one line to the next. Why is that? It would seem to me that the cruise lines would generate more business if each line had some unique destinations, rather than all competing for the same ones, especially among lines that are part of the same parent company.
There are many unique voyages being done by HAL this year and next ... and probably by some of the other lines too. The problem is that those "unique" voyages take time ... and you won't get much of a variety in ports from one cruise line to the next on a seven-day itinerary. Each place is only so far from the next. A ship can only travel so many miles in a day. So, each cruise line pretty much hits all the same destinations on an Alaska or a Caribbean itinerary. There might be a bit of deviation in the Caribbean here and there ... one line stops say at Grand Turk, while other chooses a different island. But ... pretty much ... they are all cookie cutter copies of each other. You've seen one Caribbean island, you've seen them all.

But, if you have more time to play with ... and, of course, more money, you'll find some great Grand Voyages on HAL next year ... Africa, Europe, Ireland, etc. You'll also find some longer cruises ... like the one I took to Hawaii AND the South Pacific ... an itinerary that only HAL does. I think HAL is also doing a Grand Pacific Explorer cruise next year ... something like 55 days.

The other option ... if you really want to see more of an area such as Alaska, is to go with one of the smaller operators, like Cruise West. They use very small ships which can get into some really neat ports that the big guys can't. The price is much higher, but then most shore excursions are included on those voyages ... you make landings via zodiac at the more out-of-the-way stops ... and the cruise line runs the excursions with their onboard naturalist ... usually a couple in each port and you pick the one based on your activity comfort level. But, in exchange for all those neat ports, you'll give up a lot of the big ship ammenities. However, you probably won't even miss them on an itinerary like that since nature becomes your entertainment on that sort of voyage.

I think if I were ever to do Alaska, I would only do it with an outfit like Cruise West. Much more expensive, but you get to see/do a lot more. It's not the cookie cutter big ship cruise.

So, check out all the lines ... including some of the smaller ones. You may find some unique itineraries with a bit of hunting.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[kryos]

The scheduling of a port for a cruise ship involves investigating, negotiating and scheduling vendors for shore excursions, shops for the "reccomended" shopping lists, port agents etc.

The other problem is that a big corporation like Carnival has to make sure that they have only enough ships stopping in a given port on a given day so as not to overwhelm the capacity of the port. For example, if you have two HAL Vista ships, one Carnival "Fun Ship," as well as a large RCCL (not Carnival Corporation) ship in port on the same day, the port may not have the capacity among its shore excursion vendors to accommodate all those people. You could easily be talking 10,000 people descending on a port at the same time. Not a good thing if the capacity of the island is only about 8,000. :(

That's why St. Thomas is such a zoo nowadays, and some lines have stopped their port visits there. Wall-to-wall people in the shops. Cars that can barely get through on the roads. Not a nice place to be sometimes.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Brownie Scout]

Good points, rita. I actually thought about going to Alaska on Cruise West, but then I took a look at the rates...YIKES! :eek: And me a solo? Maybe if I win the lottery. I have to admit that those longer voyages to the unusual places are really appealing, but as a solo cruiser for the most part, they're prohibitively expensive...not to mention the time they take! I'd need a cruise buddy, a major financial windfall and a hiatus from the rest of my life. Still, one can dream...

For now, though, the 10-12 day cruises a bit closer to home will have to suffice. Considering the flying time to the various ports (and how much I don't like to fly), the only 7 day cruise that really makes sense for me is the Mexican Riviera...or Alaska combined with a visit to my relatives in Seattle...LOL!:D

[Bucky3]

Hop on the Volendam NOW! We JUST returned from the best out of 4 Alaska cruises. The itinerary, time in ports, etc., etc. was just perfect. I don't believe the Volendam will be doing this same itinerary next year. This one was RT out of Vancouver. Just one of the highlights was our catamaran cruise out of Ketchikan to Misty Fjords - I called the area visited a Floating Yosemite! It was absolutely breathtaking scenery - and we even saw a beautiful big black bear! Other highlights were cruising into Tracy Arm, a gorgeous day in Glacier Bay, and enough time to drive to Emerald Lake in Yukon territory from Skagway.

[bruce-r]

The other problem is that a big corporation like Carnival has to make sure that they have only enough ships stopping in a given port on a given day so as not to overwhelm the capacity of the port.......

That's why St. Thomas is such a zoo nowadays, and some lines have stopped their port visits there. Wall-to-wall people in the shops. Cars that can barely get through on the roads. Not a nice place to be sometimes.
The same can be said for Cozumel and Grand Cayman.

[NancyIL]

(BTW, I've decided to wait for the 2007 Alaska schedule to come out and will try the Volendam then. Meanwhile, I'm thinking about booking the Oosterdam, since it's a fairly easy trek from where I live to SD. )

The Volendam is doing one-way north/south cruises to Alaska in 2007. You can see the 2007 HAL itineraries at Travelocity.

[kryos]

Good points, rita. I actually thought about going to Alaska on Cruise West, but then I took a look at the rates...YIKES! :eek: And me a solo? Maybe if I win the lottery. I have to admit that those longer voyages to the unusual places are really appealing, but as a solo cruiser for the most part, they're prohibitively expensive...not to mention the time they take! I'd need a cruise buddy, a major financial windfall and a hiatus from the rest of my life. Still, one can dream...

I might be wrong, but I don't think Cruise West charges a single supplement ... or if they do, it's not much. I also think they may have single cabins on many of their ships.

Yes, the cruise fare is higher, but then you won't spend that much onboard since most shore excursions are included ... and they don't have stuff like casinos or bingo onboard their ships. I think you still pay for alcoholic beverages, but soft drinks may be included.

So, yes ... while Cruise West's Alaska may be more expensive than a traditional cruise line, I only wonder just how much more it actually is.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[dakrewser]

I might be wrong, but I don't think Cruise West charges a single supplement ... or if they do, it's not much. I also think they may have single cabins on many of their ships.

Yes, the cruise fare is higher, but then you won't spend that much onboard since most shore excursions are included ... and they don't have stuff like casinos or bingo onboard their ships. I think you still pay for alcoholic beverages, but soft drinks may be included.


Rita - I do think there are single cabins on at least some of their ships, but I'm not at homeright now to check the brochure.

THey are more expensive on a per night basis, but there's at least one unique itinerary we want to try - Anchorage to Nome via Siberia.

We're also thinking of trying a 3e or 4 night "wine country" cruise out of SAn Francisco this fall, just to get a "taste" (pun intended :)) of what Cruise West is like.

[Brownie Scout]

I might be wrong, but I don't think Cruise West charges a single supplement ... or if they do, it's not much. I also think they may have single cabins on many of their ships.

Yes, the cruise fare is higher, but then you won't spend that much onboard since most shore excursions are included ... and they don't have stuff like casinos or bingo onboard their ships. I think you still pay for alcoholic beverages, but soft drinks may be included.

So, yes ... while Cruise West's Alaska may be more expensive than a traditional cruise line, I only wonder just how much more it actually is.

Blue skies ...

--rita

Well that's encouraging. I really like the Cruise West format. There was a great review here at CC recently and it made the CW experience seem quite appealing. Thanks!

The Anchorage-Nome intinerary sounds really interesting. Think I'll check it out.