Dealing with "Difficult" Posts or Threads on the Holland America Board

[Host Walt]

As you all know the mission of Cruise Critic is stated in our guidelines.

Cruise Critic is a community of folks who love to cruise and we all benefit from the exchange of advice that takes place here! Our Cruise Community is a cooperative effort which depend on all of you to make it work well. If you post questions, please try to take the time to answer other members' questions as well....

...Our mission is provide a haven on the internet, if you will, that will provide a resource for those planning a cruise for those that love cruising. Help make this a great source of information for you and your fellow travelers by sharing the name of that wonderful private island you visited on your last cruise or tell us about that fabulous shore excursions you took in Cozumel that just can't be missed! If you have any questions or comments regarding our posting guidelines or any content found on our message boards please be sure and let me know. I'll be happy to discuss them with you (community@cruisecritic.com) ....

Occasionally someone posts something that is not in keeping with the spirit of this mission. When that happens the best thing to do is to let us know there's a problem by using the "Alert" triangle that appears on each and every post in the upper right corner.

When you click the icon it will create a template that you will complete explaining your concerns. Say whatever you wish in the template; only Host Joe and I (and Laura, our Manager) will see what you say. And what you say will be private and never communicated to anyone else without your permission.

The worst thing you can do is to reply to a bad post yourself which serves to do nothing good but will exacerbate the problem that you identified.

To be sure not every alert will result in an action such as a removal because the post may not be in contravention of our guidelines. So if you have any question at all about a post, you can always email us at HostWalt@cruisecritic.com or HostJoe@cruisecritic.com.

[grannynurse]

Walt,
Thank you for your usual good job and sensitivity to peoples' feelings.
I've noticed some "unkind" remarks about posters, in fact, identifying them by name, in some posts. Most recently on the roll call board. Are these the kind of posts that you refer to as summoning alerts?
I know the boards are monitored for rule breaking and improper conduct, but are derogatory comments important enough to address? If I had been the recipient of what I saw, my feelings would have been hurt, but it did not contain nasty language, just derision.
GN

[Host Walt]

Walt,
Thank you for your usual good job and sensitivity to peoples' feelings.
I've noticed some "unkind" remarks about posters, in fact, identifying them by name, in some posts. Most recently on the roll call board. Are these the kind of posts that you refer to as summoning alerts?
I know the boards are monitored for rule breaking and improper conduct, but are derogatory comments important enough to address? If I had been the recipient of what I saw, my feelings would have been hurt, but it did not contain nasty language, just derision.
GNPossibly, then again possibly not.

"Derision" of a member of the Cruise critic Community is a violation of our guidelines (http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm#6) in most cases.

The best way to determine whether a post is out of line is to, simply, report it with your question included in the report. By doing that we can evaluate the issue and, if called for, do something about it.

[caribbean girl]

So glad you started this thread. It's wonderful to know that as hosts, you're here to make sure that guidelines are being followed and that you care that people remain polite. It is possible to disagree with a post and state one's opinion without resorting to the derision you refer to. Discretion is so important in a forum where so many personalities meet and sometimes clash.

Thanks for the work you do to make sure the boards continue to be a place for sharing helpful cruising information.:)

[tomc]

My policy has been: "If you can't put your real name on it, don't say it." And don't go to some far corner of the boards to gossip; yer gonna get caught, bound and keelhauled, then forced to watch "Cruise Ship Secrets" on The Travel Channel continuously for the rest of your trip.

[mim100]

Thanks, Host Doug, for starting this thread....I left the HAL board a few weeks ago because I got tired of reading all the negativity....came back today to see if there were some new threads that might interest me and the first thing I lay my eyes on is this thread !! ... to be frank, I sometimes felt that I was in a kindergarten class and it got real boring....I'm going to go and read some of the other threads here now and hopefully find a calmer, more open-minded breeze blowing :)

[HeatherInFlorida]

Thanks to Walt for posting this reminder of the guidelines. Unfortunately, I've also noticed that a lot of people don't read these "stickies" at the top of the page. I wish there were another way to get the word out because there are a few people on CC who really use it to hurt people. There's no way the Hosts can possibly police every post.

I always figure when in doubt, use the alert triangle and if I'm wrong there's really no harm done. Ever since I stopped trying to fight my own battles and leave it to the Hosts, I've been a lot happier person on the boards.

That and just staying away from certain subjects that always seem to raise the big red flag:D .

Many thanks to Walt and all the hosts for the hard work you do. 99.9% of us really do appreciate it.

[Host Walt]

Thanks, Heather, for your kind comments.

Another Cruise Critic Member posted this on another board. It is worth repeating here:

Tip #1 Ignore the Vocal Minority and this is a much better place
There are plenty of nice, helpful, friendly people on this board with no baggage that just want to talk about cruising.

Tip#2 Read the rules and follow them
They're fair. They make this a good place. If followed and enforced Tip #1 is not necessary.

Tip#3 You can gain a lot by just reading
Don't think you have to interact with someone you find distasteful to gain knowledge. Petty, clique-oriented posts and responses aside, there's a wealth of knowledge here

Tip#4 Chat room and Message board 101: Don't be afraid to turn off your computer
It's easy to get sucked into controversial, demeaning, nasty threads and get upset about it. Remember: This is not real. Odds are you will never meet very many of these people in real life unless you want to. Hint: If this is not fun, click on something that is. You have the power. Try this. (http://members.iinet.net.au/~pontipak/redsquare.html)

Tip #5 You already registered, that's all you need
There is no secret club, chosen few, select bunch or special people. You don't have to go out of your way to get along with or suck up to any board member or group of board members. Your question and your response has just as much value as anybody else's. If someone condemns you for that they, not you, are wrong.

Tip #6 This is not a democracy
Make no doubt about it: We are are here at the pleasure of the board administration. They're tough but they're fair. Follow the rules and you'll be fine. If you have questions about how they run the place, ask. I've always gotten an answer to any question I've asked.

[mim100]

oops...apologies to Host Walt...I called you Host Doug in my last post !! :)

[Host Walt]

oops...apologies to Host Walt...I called you Host Doug in my last post !! :)No problem. With Doug's writing skills I considered that to be a compliment to be mistaken for him.

[LHC]

I joined this board early Fall of 2005. I have found it very informative and a wealth of information and fun for tooling away hours until the next trip aboard.
I appreciate a variety of opinions and this board has them all. If I find a post or a thread unkind or negative, I simply do not read it and do not post to it.
I appreciate the Host work to keep us following the rules and Kind. I guess the 10 Commandments are not all we need...
Linda

[sirarthur]

The cruise experience for us begins long befor we sail... For months before the cruise we consult this WONDERFUL forum and thereby increase our pleasure in anticipation of our experience. We find many of the questions asked were ones that we should have asked but did not know enough to do so. The answers are often consistent and informative. Travelogs are entertaining and infectuous in spreading the joy and excitement of cruising. I applaud those who faciltate and manage this forum and those who participate!

[newmexicoNita]

I joined this board early Fall of 2005. I have found it very informative and a wealth of information and fun for tooling away hours until the next trip aboard.
I appreciate a variety of opinions and this board has them all. If I find a post or a thread unkind or negative, I simply do not read it and do not post to it.
I appreciate the Host work to keep us following the rules and Kind. I guess the 10 Commandments are not all we need...
Linda
very good comments. Opinions will always vary and that is healthy. Many are passionate about their favorite line, while others seem to think nothing is as good as they had hoped. I think most of us feel we want to read both sides, but when the attacks get personal then it is time to call a halt!!!

Nita

[mamaofami]

Hi Host Walt,
I was feeling very frustrated tonight reading some very insensitive comments and can't believe how quickly all reference to them was deleted. You do a great job, and I'm sure the majority of us appreciate it.:)

[Jesterscourt]

Thank you for hosting these boards. Last year when I used Princess boards prior to our cruise I picked up an undercurrent of arrogance and hostility on the part of a few participants that made others "fearful" of asking minor questions such as about tipping or Anytime Dining, or of even hinting at anything that might be construed as a criticism of Princess. I was hoping that the Holland America Cruise Critic boards would be classy and informative while relaxed and non-judgmental and so far I have been pleasantly surprised. Keep up the good work!

[marco]

...and remeber, when you are reading or listening to someone else's opinion keep an open mind, get more than one and none should be considered "gospel". I was just looking at some cruise reviews. Someone posted a somewhat less than complimentary review. WE WERE ON THE SAME CRUISE and after reading the review, I was like, "the cruise must have been an episode on the old TV series Twilight Zone" becasue my perspective is TOTALLY TOTALLY different from the poster. Also, we were a group of 20, some repeat cruisers and some newbies, and the newbies said it was absolutely the very very best vacation they have ever taken. And a bad day on a cruise is still better than a good day at work!

Like a friend of mine says:

"Opinions are like noses....everyone has one and they all smell"

[sail-a-bration]

I guess I should have read this first, I thought you clicked the red triangle to ask the poster a question. Sorry to all whom I have clicked your little red triangle. I have seen little if any ugly posts, on whole I find CC'ers to be fun and informative.

[sail-a-bration]

To the CC monitor, I hope you can find all of my report clicks and clear any that I made.

[world~citizen]

One thing to remember, good manners are for everyone - all the time. There are no exceptions.

That is such a simple rule that if followed, would make this a better place.

It is run well though, and it is up to users to keep it that way.

Smooth sailing...

[mii]

I have a question: If your host is on a cruise is there someone who is there to take their place?

Marilyn

[Beagle2]

Hello. I want you to know we really appreciate the opportunity to express our views. This is a great site and we believe it will ultimately benefit many travelers. It is a sure thing, we think, that some constructive critcism is good for any program, so let us not kill the messenger, ok? ;)

Again, a job well done by you folks of CC and we applaud you for that.


Beagle2:)

[dustymax]

Who are the boards administrators? And does the word "administrators" mean "sponsors". Do cruise line employees get on here to write or respond to posts?

I appreciate the site's existence but I do get a "big brother is watching" feel sometimes. But it may just be me.

[Host Walt]

Who are the boards administrators? And does the word "administrators" mean "sponsors". Do cruise line employees get on here to write or respond to posts?

I appreciate the site's existence but I do get a "big brother is watching" feel sometimes. But it may just be me.
Each forum has assigned Hosts (Joe and I are the Hosts for the HAL board). Our role is detailed in the Community Guidelines (http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm) and is primarily to ensure that the Guidelines are complied with. We do not edit any posts nor do we authenticate any statements made by members.

Our work is supervised by a Community Manager who can be contacted at any time at Community@CruiseCritic.com. She and her assistant are unofficially referred to as "administrators."

All advertising on the Cruise Critic boards is paid. No advertising at all is permitted in any of the board postings, even by "sponsors."

As for cruise line employees, we are aware that there are many who participate on the boards (some openly and others indirectly) but Cruise Critic is not a vehicle for lines to communicate with customers or vice versa.

Hope this answers your concerns.

[oliverdr]

Recently cruised on Royal and they hosted a nice meet and mingle for cruise critic folks- is there any such thing on HA and how do we get one set up???

[Host Walt]

Recently cruised on Royal and they hosted a nice meet and mingle for cruise critic folks- is there any such thing on HA and how do we get one set up???

Find your specific cruise on the HAL Roll Calls board (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=86) and start the process. HA does not have a program similar to RCI where the cruise line sponsors the programs, but the HAL folks are very cooperative in helping Cruise Critic members in making the arrangements.

[oldengine]

Don't overlook the "IGNORE" function on this board.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

If there's someone that you would rather not see in a thread, just drop their user name in there. If enough folks ignore them, they'll simply go away.

[dwillis43]

Thanks Walt! I spend a great deal of time on the RCCL board. This is something that needs to be posted on that board as well. Thanks again and happy cruising!

[Host Walt]

Thought I'd bring this post forward as a reminder. Also, when you get upset, annoyed and/or emotional while surfing the Cruise Critic boards, see the link (http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html) in item 4. It's a real fun link.

Thanks, Heather, for your kind comments.

Another Cruise Critic Member posted this on another board. It is worth repeating here:

Tip #1 Ignore the Vocal Minority and this is a much better place
There are plenty of nice, helpful, friendly people on this board with no baggage that just want to talk about cruising.

Tip#2 Read the rules and follow them
They're fair. They make this a good place. If followed and enforced Tip #1 is not necessary.

Tip#3 You can gain a lot by just reading
Don't think you have to interact with someone you find distasteful to gain knowledge. Petty, clique-oriented posts and responses aside, there's a wealth of knowledge here

Tip#4 Chat room and Message board 101: Don't be afraid to turn off your computer
It's easy to get sucked into controversial, demeaning, nasty threads and get upset about it. Remember: This is not real. Odds are you will never meet very many of these people in real life unless you want to. Hint: If this is not fun, click on something that is. You have the power. Try this. (http://members.iinet.net.au/%7Epontipak/redsquare.html)

Tip #5 You already registered, that's all you need
There is no secret club, chosen few, select bunch or special people. You don't have to go out of your way to get along with or suck up to any board member or group of board members. Your question and your response has just as much value as anybody else's. If someone condemns you for that they, not you, are wrong.

Tip #6 This is not a democracy
Make no doubt about it: We are are here at the pleasure of the board administration. They're tough but they're fair. Follow the rules and you'll be fine. If you have questions about how they run the place, ask. I've always gotten an answer to any question I've asked.

[IRL_Joanie]

Don't overlook the "IGNORE" function on this board.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

If there's someone that you would rather not see in a thread, just drop their user name in there. If enough folks ignore them, they'll simply go away.

Thank you for that url!! I needed that function.

[NorthPhoenixGuy]

Hello Walt,

I joined CC in 2006 just before my very first cruise. I learned so much about HAL and the Oosterdam from other cruisers that I had the most fabulous cruise ever. I continue to read and contribute now and then to these boards, but I must admit the negativity has certainly grown in the last three years. Sometimes I just don't get online for weeks at a time to give myself a rest from it all. But, overall, I think there is more of a positive nature on the boards and it is a wonderful way to learn about cruises.

I see that you're from Tarzana. My parents moved to Tarzana in 1959 when I was 15. We moved from central Los Angeles and we bought a house in the new development of Caballero Hills. We lived on Arriba Dr and there we were in the first 20 homes back there. Have you lived there a long time?

Thanks

[owl61]

Your question and your response has (sic) just as much value as anybody else's. If someone condemns you for that they (sic) , not you, are wrong.

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but contrary to what is written here, not all opinions are of equal value. Some opinions are not accurate and, as such, they are misleading and not at all helpful. Opinons can fall into this category because they are based upon bad information, because they are devoid of reason or logic or because the person offering the opinion is obviously not well. If the purpose of the boards is to assist others it is absolutely critical to question opinions that are suspect. Asking for clarification or pointing out the distortion in the opinion of another should be welcome if done in a courteous manner as it reinforces helpful/credible opinions while exposing misleading/incredible ones as such.
Too often someone whose opinion has been properly questioned responds by mindlessly incanting the magic words " I am entitled to an opinion" instead of supporting the opinion with facts and reason. That is a sign that the person doesn't really know what he or she is talking about and that the opinon lacks credibility, i.e., it is of little or no value.

[m steve]

can we have a moritorium on smoking threads? It's the same stuff constantly and no one seems willing to change or compromise. There seems to be one for chair hogs, smugging and jeans in the dining room.

[Thoth]

It seems that many of us get flamed for simply expressing an opinion about dress codes, stand up comedians, show costumes, dinner arrangements, and other trivial matters.
For some reason it gets personal. The way I see it we are all entitled to our point of view on cruises but should keep our negative views of other posters to ourselves.
If you don't like the shows...fine let's hear it, but if you don't like me.... then let it go.

[Host Walt]

It seems that many of us get flamed for simply expressing an opinion about dress codes, stand up comedians, show costumes, dinner arrangements, and other trivial matters.
For some reason it gets personal. The way I see it we are all entitled to our point of view on cruises but should keep our negative views of other posters to ourselves.
If you don't like the shows...fine let's hear it, but if you don't like me.... then let it go.


This is good restatement of our guidelines. Please see: Guidelines (http://www.cruisecritic.com/community/guide.cfm#6).

[Host Walt]

Everyone is entitled to an opinion, but contrary to what is written here, not all opinions are of equal value. Some opinions are not accurate and, as such, they are misleading and not at all helpful. Opinons can fall into this category because they are based upon bad information, because they are devoid of reason or logic or because the person offering the opinion is obviously not well. If the purpose of the boards is to assist others it is absolutely critical to question opinions that are suspect. Asking for clarification or pointing out the distortion in the opinion of another should be welcome if done in a courteous manner as it reinforces helpful/credible opinions while exposing misleading/incredible ones as such.
Too often someone whose opinion has been properly questioned responds by mindlessly incanting the magic words " I am entitled to an opinion" instead of supporting the opinion with facts and reason. That is a sign that the person doesn't really know what he or she is talking about and that the opinon lacks credibility, i.e., it is of little or no value.

Whether or not an opinion has value is not the issue. Opinions are like noses; everyone has one, they are all different and there's no such thing as an incorrect nose.

Pointing out factual issues that are part of a post that includes an expression of an opinion is fair, just so long as it doesn't get personal.

Example:

Member #1: In my opinion the HAL galley chefs on Eurodam are losing touch with their customers. I really despise the fact that they use salt in preparing their ice cream sundaes.

Member #2: Member #1, where did you ever get the idea that HAL uses salt in their sundaes? You must be some kind of idiot. Your opinion is just wrong.

Member #3: Member #1, I'm not sure what happened but I find it most unlikely that HAL uses salt in their sundaes. Could it possibly be that you experienced a human error and not a change in recipes? In my opinion, unlike yours, HAL's chefs do a fantastic job.

Member #4: Member #1, I can't believe we were both on the same cruise. I had a sundae every evening and loved every bit of it.

Which response(s) is (are) a violation of our guidelines?

[Thoth]

Whether or not an opinion has value is not the issue. Opinions are like noses; everyone has one, they are all different and there's no such thing as an incorrect nose.

Pointing out factual issues that are part of a post that includes an expression of an opinion is fair, just so long as it doesn't get personal.

Example:

Member #1: In my opinion the HAL galley chefs on Eurodam are losing touch with their customers. I really despise the fact that they use salt in preparing their ice cream sundaes.

Member #2: Member #1, where did you ever get the idea that HAL uses salt in their sundaes? You must be some kind of idiot. Your opinion is just wrong.

Member #3: Member #1, I'm not sure what happened but I find it most unlikely that HAL uses salt in their sundaes. Could it possibly be that you experienced a human error and not a change in recipes? In my opinion, unlike yours, HAL's chefs do a fantastic job.

Member #4: Member #1, I can't believe we were both on the same cruise. I had a sundae every evening and loved every bit of it.

Which response(s) is (are) a violation of our guidelines?
Member # 5; I love salt in ice cream. Member #1 is a narrow minded bigot for FORCEING
me to eat my ice cream salt-less. Stay off my ships !!!! You salt hating people think you own the world and can force your will on everyone else. Anyway if you don't love salty ice cream like I do...DON'T EAT THE $%&*! ice cream.

[Thoth]

Don't overlook the "IGNORE" function on this board.

http://boards.cruisecritic.com/profile.php?do=ignorelist

If there's someone that you would rather not see in a thread, just drop their user name in there. If enough folks ignore them, they'll simply go away.
COOL ! Thanks for reminding me of that function.
Doing that would have saved me much anguish.

[stella53]

Whether or not an opinion has value is not the issue. Opinions are like noses; everyone has one, they are all different and there's no such thing as an incorrect nose.

Pointing out factual issues that are part of a post that includes an expression of an opinion is fair, just so long as it doesn't get personal.

Example:

Member #1: In my opinion the HAL galley chefs on Eurodam are losing touch with their customers. I really despise the fact that they use salt in preparing their ice cream sundaes.

Member #2: Member #1, where did you ever get the idea that HAL uses salt in their sundaes? You must be some kind of idiot. Your opinion is just wrong.

Member #3: Member #1, I'm not sure what happened but I find it most unlikely that HAL uses salt in their sundaes. Could it possibly be that you experienced a human error and not a change in recipes? In my opinion, unlike yours, HAL's chefs do a fantastic job.

Member #4: Member #1, I can't believe we were both on the same cruise. I had a sundae every evening and loved every bit of it.

Which response(s) is (are) a violation of our guidelines?

Walt, sorry, but I am confused. First, you state that like noses, there are no incorrect opinions. Then you state that it is okay to criticize opinions that are wrong because they are based on wrong facts. The second statement contradicts the first.
For example,you impiedly admit that it is okay to point out that member #1's statement/opinion about the HAL ice cream is "wrong" because in actual fact no salt is used in making the ice cream (assuming that is the case). If salt is not normally used in the making of ice cream the original opinion member #1's opinion IS wrong because it is based upon erroneous facts. If some salt was used in the OP's dish it was human error that got it there, not HAL recipes.

Let's not avoid the truth just because of a desire to be kind and overly solicitous to members. We can be truthful without being rude as Member # 3's reply in your example was.

[Host Walt]

Walt, sorry, but I am confused. First, you state that like noses, there are no incorrect opinions. Then you state that it is okay to criticize opinions that are wrong because they are based on wrong facts. The second statement contradicts the first.
For example,you impiedly admit that it is okay to point out that member #1's statement/opinion about the HAL ice cream is "wrong" because in actual fact no salt is used in making the ice cream (assuming that is the case). If salt is not normally used in the making of ice cream the original opinion member #1's opinion IS wrong because it is based upon erroneous facts. If some salt was used in the OP's dish it was human error that got it there, not HAL recipes.

Let's not avoid the truth just because of a desire to be kind and overly solicitous to members. We can be truthful without being rude as Member # 3's reply in your example was.

An opinion that is based on erroneous facts is still an opinion.

Explaining that the underlying facts are wrong is not characterizing the opinion or the member, it's simply correcting allegedly incorrect facts.

Example,

"In my opinion there were too many commercials in the Oscar presentation. I'm guessing that more than 20% of the program was commercials."

If someone points out that only 1% of the time was devoted to commercials, the opinion is still an opinion that may change as a result of new, or corrected, facts, but the opinion is still an opinion.

The point is that we will not permit someone to be "attacked" for expressing an opinion. But we will permit posts that correct an expressed but incorrect statement.

[Gunther1]

When I logged on this am, I see that the thread that somebody started yesterday is totally gone....I added a note to it yesterday.

When I try to find it via my list of all my posts, it's totally gone from my list.

It's like the thread never existed.

What's up ?

[mexico5]

Hi Walt, if I put someone on my "ignore" list, do they know it?

[mexico5]

Me again...is it like Facebook in that if you "block" (or in this case "ignore") someone that they can't see what you write either?

[lorekauf]

Hi Walt, if I put someone on my "ignore" list, do they know it?
I'm not Walt...but no, they don't know it.

[lorekauf]

Me again...is it like Facebook in that if you "block" (or in this case "ignore") someone that they can't see what you write either?
They will still be able to see what you write.

[Krazy Kruizers]

Hi Walt, if I put someone on my "ignore" list, do they know it?

Me again...is it like Facebook in that if you "block" (or in this case "ignore") someone that they can't see what you write either?

lorekauf answered your questions. But I just wanted to tell you that several weeks ago there were some really nasty things here and people jumping on people. For the first time in years I made an Ignore List and I am aware that they can read what I write but I don't have to read what they write.

[Mary Ellen]

They will still be able to see what you write.For the posters I have on 'Ignore', I still see their posts when someone quotes them.

[lorekauf]

For the posters I have on 'Ignore', I still see their posts when someone quotes them.
Yes...true...unfortunately so.........:eek:.

[mexico5]

Thanks lorekauf and krazy...I was wondering how it all worked!

[lorekauf]

Thanks lorekauf and krazy...I was wondering how it all worked!
You're most welcome. I'm always happy to help out a fellow Calgarian:).

[Host Walt]

I'm not Walt...but no, they don't know it.

Correct. The only one who knows you've put someone on your ignore list is you. As a caution, you may want to check the list periodically to decide whether you want to leave someone on that list going forward or not.