tipping at begining of cruise

[worldover]

What do you think. Is tipping up front better than waiting for the end of a cruise? Obviously you can better judge service at the end, but will an up front tip bring better service?

[Keith1010]

This item comes up from time to time not only on this board but on various CC boards including those where tipping is already included in the cruise fare. In the end some will say yes and some will say no. So, knowing this I always tell people to do what they think is best for them and what they feel most comfortable doing.

Keith

[kitty9]

I have never, ever tipped up front. To me, it appears to be rather crass and I think it looks more like a bribe rather than a tip. If you're going to have bad service, and on Crystal bad service isn't something that happens, but when you're on a mass market line if you have a crew member that provides bad service, that service will be bad whether you tip up front or at the end. And, again not on Crystal but for mass market lines, what if you tip up front and the crew member provides really bad service? You've probably wasted part of that tip because if the service is poor, you probably wouldn't want to tip the full amount.

[Paul59]

This is just another point of view, of course up front is better... If you haven’t tried it, don’t knock it. I’ve done both and it’s much better, up front, even on Crystal.
The room stewardess gets a “benny” up front with the promise of another at the end of the cruise. That’s because these ladies are the hardest working people at sea. If I miss seeing her on the last morning I stick it to the cabin mirror.
The Maitre d’, the Sommelier, the head waiter, the waiter and bus boy all get a “benny” the first night, at the assigned table. I also tip them again the last night aboard.
If I use the Concierge he or she will receive the same before any request is made. Although tips are automatically added to bar tabs, each bar check holder is signed and folded shut with an expression of thanks in the form of U.S. currency.
Of course all tips are bribes, whether before or after “To Insure Prompt Service”. That’s were the term comes from.

What is crass is the practice of using sealed envelopes to conceal unidentified tips at the end of the cruise. Always in amounts known only to the recipient when he, or she, is able to remove the tip, long after the unknown and probably “cheapskate” tipper is long gone.

It seems to me that after spending several thousand dollars for the cruise ticket, the tip budget should be commensurate with it. The expression of “Thank you” for the outstanding service I am about to receive brings an appreciative smile to the face of the recipient that can only be described as “heart warming”. The look is like no other, and if you think it is not reflected in the service, you are mistaken.

Paul

[All too soon...]

I have never, ever tipped up front. To me, it appears to be rather crass and I think it looks more like a bribe rather than a tip.

In tend to agree (I would use the word "tacky.")

There is another factor, which is that it shows respect for all to follow protocol and tradition. Following tradition is the most mannerly approach.

[Host Dan]

In tend to agree (I would use the word "tacky.")

There is another factor, which is that it shows respect for all to follow protocol and tradition. Following tradition is the most mannerly approach.
I don't find it "tacky" in the least. Just another point of view, and something that seems to make another cruiser happy. JMHO

Host Dan

[Keith1010]

It was for this reason that I posted my original response. I have met some people who truly believe that tipping at the beginning of the cruise followed by a tip at the end of the cruise is the right approach and they believe that they will receive better service with this approach while many others believe that they will receive just as good service and prefer to tip at the end of the cruise. And I have met others who like to tip half up front and half at the end not because they are looking for better service but because they think that is a nice thing to do. And others feel comfortable giving tips and will do it in person and still others will give tips but feel uncomfortable handing envelopes to people and will therefore give a tip in another manner. And others look at a tip as rewarding someone for their service and for saying thank you while others look at a tip in the same manner but also believe that it will lead to even better service on a specific cruise or even on a future cruise.

In the end, that is why I feel that one should do what they feel comfortable with and therefore I realize that some passenger's tip up front and others tip at the end. I suspect that the majority of passenger's tip at the end, but as I said I have met several who tip at the beginning and at the end. I have also met many who will tip selected individuals at the time they do something signficant for them. For example, some will tip a Matre Di or a Concierge at the time or as close to the time as possible when something special was done for them rather than waiting for the end of the cruise to show their appreciation. Still, others will wait till the end. This will vary by person and likely by circumstance.

Whether you tip up front and at the end, or up front only or at the end only, I have learned that treating others the way you want to be treated goes a long way in terms of service. While I suspect that one will receive solid service on a cruise line such as Crystal no matter how one acts as we are dealing with a very professional staff, my wife and I will often say please, and thank you in our day-to-day interactions with the wonderful staff on this cruise line whereas from time to time we have observed a small minority of passenger's who will order the staff around. We find that treating others nicely goes a long way towards how they treat us. We don't do this to obtain better service. Rather, we do this because this is how we act with others.

Again, when it comes to tipping I always say do what you think is right and also do what you feel comfortable with. But, most importantly, be fair in what you do.

Keith

[Host Dan]

It was for this reason that I posted my original response. I have met some people who truly believe that tipping at the beginning of the cruise followed by a tip at the end of the cruise is the right approach and they believe that they will receive better service with this approach while many others believe that they will receive just as good service and prefer to tip at the end of the cruise. And I have met others who like to tip half up front and half at the end not because they are looking for better service but they think that is a nice thing to do. And others feel comfortable giving tips and will do it in person and still others will give tips but feel uncomfortable handing evelopes to people and will therefore give a tip in another manner. In the end, that is why I feel that one should do what they feel comfortable with and therefore I realize that some passenger's tip up front and others tip at the end. I suspect that the majority of passenger's tip at the end, but as I said I have met several who tip at the beginning and at the end. I have also met many who will tip selected individuals at the time they do something signficant for them. For example, some will tip a Matre Di or a Concierge at the time or as close to the time as possible when something special was done for them rather than waiting for the end of the cruise to show their appreciation. Still, others will wait till the end. This will vary by person and likely by circumstance.

Whether you tip up front and at the end, or up front only or at the end only, I have learned that treating others the way you want to be treated goes a long way in terms of service. While I suspect that one will receive solid service on a cruise line such as Crystal no matter how one acts as we are dealing with a very professional staff, my wife and I will often say please, and thank you in our day-to-day interactions with the wonderful staff on this cruise line whereas from time to time we have observed a small minority of passenger's who will order the staff around. We find that treating others nicely goes a long way towards how they treat us. We don't do this to obtain better service. Rather, we do this because this is how we act with others.

Again, when it comes to tipping I always say do what you think is right and also do what you feel comfortable with. But, most importantly, be fair in what you do.

Keith
Thanks Keith, I believe you summed it up beautifully! :)

Host Dan

[AirGorilla]

This is just another point of view, of course up front is better... If you haven’t tried it, don’t knock it. I’ve done both and it’s much better, up front, even on Crystal.
The room stewardess gets a “benny” up front with the promise of another at the end of the cruise. That’s because these ladies are the hardest working people at sea. If I miss seeing her on the last morning I stick it to the cabin mirror.
The Maitre d’, the Sommelier, the head waiter, the waiter and bus boy all get a “benny” the first night, at the assigned table. I also tip them again the last night aboard.
If I use the Concierge he or she will receive the same before any request is made. Although tips are automatically added to bar tabs, each bar check holder is signed and folded shut with an expression of thanks in the form of U.S. currency.
Of course all tips are bribes, whether before or after “To Insure Prompt Service”. That’s were the term comes from.

What is crass is the practice of using sealed envelopes to conceal unidentified tips at the end of the cruise. Always in amounts known only to the recipient when he, or she, is able to remove the tip, long after the unknown and probably “cheapskate” tipper is long gone.

It seems to me that after spending several thousand dollars for the cruise ticket, the tip budget should be commensurate with it. The expression of “Thank you” for the outstanding service I am about to receive brings an appreciative smile to the face of the recipient that can only be described as “heart warming”. The look is like no other, and if you think it is not reflected in the service, you are mistaken.

Paul

Hi Paul --

By "benny", are you referring to the Benjamin Franklin $100 bill? If so, that is certainly generous for the Maitre D' and Wine Steward!!

Happy Sailing!!

[kitty9]

Well, the fact that I've always had extraordinary service on Crystal with everyone going out of their way to do so many extra things, proves to me that even though I don't tip up front means that my service is great no matter what. Plus, I don't hand envelopes to the staff, but tip them in cash two days before the cruise ends, so I do see the appreciative faces and hear the many thank yous. Perhaps the fact that I tend to tip quite generously, and well above the daily recommended amount, is something that is spoken of and remembered in subsequent cruises.

When my family cruised on QM2, in two Queen's Grill suites, my sister tipped our mom's butler a "benny" on the first day to make sure she was well taken care of---mom is disabled and she really uses the services a butler provides. But guess what? The butler was pretty bad, we hardly saw her, and she didn't do some of the simpliest things we asked, such as making sure mom had milk in her frig to take her medication each day. So, like I said, if you're going to have a crew member who isn't that great, they're going to be that way whether they're tipped up front or not.

[All too soon...]

...$100 ... is certainly generous for the Maitre D' and Wine Steward!!

Considering the M.D' determines where you sit, that tip is very small thanks for when you are happy with getting a table you like.

I also like to remember the Prego HW and M.D', especially when we dine there more than our share, and they slip us in at the last minute.

[cruzpro]

Keith and Paul are right on. The main thing to do is tip when service is appreciated and special. Everybody in Lido knows my name the first day. How I guess word is passed. They split tips so I can tip my favorite a tenspot and know that all got their fair share. Same goes for the deck stewards. I love the body language some of the crew exhibit where their body says no you don't have to tip me but their hand comes forward:) I like to shake hands like Frank did and leave them money in the exchange. I like to give my stewadess a 50 the first day. Like Paul says I think it definately makes a difference. When I get a drink the 15% gets split amongst all the wait staff but the dollar or two in cash gets into their pocket willy nilly. I like to give my wait staff and extra 5 spot each night. They love it. The more I tip the better my luck in the casino. The wonderful staff on Crystal deserves all the tips they can garner. They work hard and usually can't do enough for us. I always take care of the MD in Lido and the HW in Lido. Like ATS says you never know when you need that split second table in Prego or Jade:) Crystal is a tipping ship just go with it. Ernie

[NHcruisers]

I used to pre- and post tip, but I no longer pre-tip because I became uncomfortable with the potential consequences of doing so. The exception to the rule is if I know we will be heavily entertaining in our suite, I will pre-tip the butler and explain that we will be requiring a little extra service during the cruise.

Why did I stop pre-tipping?

In bars:

Pre-tipping in bars is nothing more than trying to shape future behavior of the bartenders. I pre-tipped in bars because, in part, I wanted to sign less chits and I figured if I laid on a big tip up front, I would be "taken care of". Well. after reflection, I realized that all I was doing was suborning theft--the bartender personally profited at the expense of the cruise line. I also became aware that I received preferential treatment whenever I entered the bar. I almost always had my order taken before other people who had been waiting longer. I just couldn't continue to justify why my enhanced cruise experience in lounges should come at the expense of other passengers (or the cruise line.)

Cabin service:

All lines' cabin attendants have a set number of cabins they are responsible for. I forget how many on Crystal. But no line gives their cabin attendants a great deal (actually any) down time. In fact, cruise lines are consistently trying to lower costs by increasing the number of cabins a team or individual is responsible for. So you have cabin attendants who are busting their tails to provide excellent service to each of the cabins they are responsible for. Let's assume that half of the cabins he/she/they are responsible for have passengers that pre-tip in order to influence future behavior and quality of service. Does anyone really believe that the passengers in cabins that don't pre-tip are not going to be negatively affected?

Everyone has the right to do what they feel comfortable with in regards to pre-tipping. I just got to the point where I became uneasy when I realized that I was attempting to purchase a higher level of service at the possible expense of my fellow passengers. I guess I feel more comfortable being potential collateral damage to those that pre-tip than I do in continuing to engage in the same practice myself. Different stokes for different folks.

Best regards-
Bill

[Judith02]

IN reading your post, I remembered a poster who wrote that he gave a large tip to the computer room person so that he would not be charged for his emails. To me, that sounded dishonest. To pre-tip in order to get good service has some merit, but no matter how I feel about Crystal's computer charges, I think the person and the crew member who accepted the money were doing a dis-service to the cruise line. You evidently came to this same conclusion with the bar personnel.

[CruisinGerman]

To Europeans like myself, the detailed pre-tipping policies described so eloquently by Paul59 sound like a scene from a gangster movie.

Please remember, kind cruisers, that the whole tipping phenomenon is a U.S. institution and does not exist in most other parts of the world to the extent that it is an obligatory practice in the U.S. (in Europe, people in service positions receive full salaries and full benefits, and not the U.S. system of receiving a very low, official base wage and having to make up the difference in tips).

So my wife and I look at tipping as part of the cruise fare in the sense that the cruise line has decided, for tax, revenue and other reasons, to pay part of their personnel's wages in the form of tips. We gladly just let them automatically charge the minimum recommended tips on our bill on Crystal, and refuse to participate in what we Europeans refer to as the American tipping circus.

And just to politely correct the other poster, the origin of tipping happens to come from the Latin European countries (France, Spain). The origins of tipping (pourboire in French and propina in Spanish) literally mean leaving a coin or two on the table for the service person "for a drink".

That is the practice still in effect in continental European countries today. You can go to the most expensive restaurant in Paris or Barcelona, sign your credit card chit without any tip at all, and either walk out of the restaurant leaving no tip or leaving a few coins on the table, and you will still be treated graciously.

The origin of tipping has nothing to do with acronyms or improved service.

By the cruiseline automatically charging the minimum tip to our account, we are thankful that we don't have to actively and outwardly participate in something that is not part of our culture, and which we, personally, happen to consider crass and degrading.

One of the things we like on Silversea is the no tipping policy. That suits people like ourselves, whose cultures and upbringing don't partake in this practice.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[CruisinGerman]

To insure prompt service with which company? Prudential? Mutual of Omaha?

As a further attestation of the inaccuracy of the acronym used by Mr. Paul59, the proper way of saying that expression would be "to ensure (or to assure) prompt service". The word "insure" is totally out of place here.

So, we wouldn't get "tip" at all, but rather we would get "tep" or "tap".

Anyway, whether it's tip, tep, or tap, my wife and I don't approve of the whole system and are quite happy with Crystal quietly and unobtrusively just charging the tip, tep or tap to our bill and case closed.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[cruzpro]

Well someone had to fill out the gratuity form and turn it in to the front desk.
I don't feel bad to tip only the figure Crystal comes up with on the form. I do add to their list. I don't really know but Paul was insuring the service or at least attempting to insure the bartender gave him good drinks right from the beginning of the cruise for instance. I don't know. I could be way wrong also:)
Ernie

[kitty9]

My sister, who's a whole lot smarter than yours truly, made an very interesting point on this subject of tipping. Does anyone here give a waiter/waitress their tip at a restaurant before the meal is even ordered? I've never done that and I don't know anyone who has, so what makes pre-tipping on a cruise any different? Gunter makes some very valid points and this gratuity thing is one of the reasons I have always liked Seabourn.

[Kissing Seahorses]

It is really not very difficult to determine the tipping customs(or lack thereof) in whatever culture you happen to be in. Every guidebook(or cruise catalog) lists the recommended tipping percentage or whether you round up to the next Euro, dollar, Kroner or whatever. A truely cosmopolitan person always tips when and how much is appropriate by doing a little homework ahead of time and adapts to his/her new environment without alot of commentary about how superior the system is that they have at home or on the previous cruise line, etc.. "When in Rome, do as the Romans do" really is a good travel axiom to follow...Make the effort to adapt to their ways, don't try to make them bend to your's.

[Paul59]

Darcie

Please,,, you above all people know the difference beween tipping a waitress at home and tipping a cruise attendent aboard ship. I agree with your sister I woulld never tip a restaurant waitress,, up front.

Paul

[BEAV]

Now we know why all the cruise lines refer to tipping (or gratuities) in their brochures as "a very personal matter". That very possibly might be the understatement of the year! (just trying to lighten the air around here a little :) )

And now a serious question.....

First off, I feel Gunter & Uta have clearly detailed the differences between US and European cultures with regards to the whole gratuity issue. I was also glad to read they freely allow Crystal to charge their shipboard account for gratuities, recognizing the fact that employees aboard ship do not earn a "living wage" as do Europeans in the service industry. Having said that, Gunter & Uta, do you have any opinion on whether or not the majority of Europeans who cruise Crystal (or any other cruise line for that matter) allow gratuities to be charged to their account? Or do you feel there is a significant segment of the European population who, if they boarded a cruise, would not participate in tipping in any way due to their culture, despite the fact they knew employees couldn't make a fair living without gratuities?

[CruisinGerman]

In Continental Europe -- it is not necessary to leave a tip ANYPLACE. When I refer to a tip, I refer to the standard U.S. concept of 15% - 20%. That is definitely a U.S. institution.

In any restaurant in Continental Europe (that is, with the exception of the United Kingdom and Ireland, whose systems are more similar to the U.S.), you can spend 1,000 euros, and walk out without leaving ANY TIP, or you can leave 2 euro coins on the table and you will be treated most graciously.

In most places in Europe, when they return your credit card receipt, you will notice that there is no blank line for a tip, and that your food and beverage check has been totalled for you to sign, period.

However, in recent years, many hotels and restaurants that specifically cater to American tourists have begun following the American policy if putting a blank tip line on the credit card receipt and letting you add a tip. They feel that if you're stupid enough to give extra money to the restaurant when it's not at all required, of course they're going to take it.

The tipping that was invented in Spain and France was to leave one or two coins for the server so he or she could buy a drink. That was centuries ago.

That same tradition still holds true in 2006. Go to the most expensive restaurant in Paris or Barcelona, and leave 2 euro coins on the table, and you'll see how happy everybody is with you. Try doing that in New York City!

Whether or not a modern dictionary accepts the use of both words "insure" or "ensure" is not relevant to the point you are making, because you were addressing the origin of the word, and not the modern usage given thereto in 2006.

There is an underlying issue in this whole tipping issue which we have all hinted at but seem to be afraid to spit out directly -- I will gladly do so now.

Some people seem to gain a greater sense of happiness and self-importance if they run around throwing their money around at everybody.

However, the crew members working on the ships are fully aware of this and, of course are going to gladly accept your money.

Nevertheless, the key is to be kind and polite to the crew members and treat them as you yourself would want to be treated. You will find that if you act this way, you will receive top-notch service.

My wife and I have never been big tippers as other people on this board seem to be, yet we have always received outstanding service on all of the cruise lines.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[nancygp]

Gunther and Uta,

thanks for your insight.

The last few comments you made were perfect. I always treat people the way I want to be treated. The crew on Crystal is wonderful and very hard working. I have always received top notch service.

Nancy

[CruisinGerman]

I do not have the statistics on this, but probably a great deal of Europeans disembark the ships without leaving tips, not because they are bad people, but because it is something simply not in their culture and they don't understand it.

I do remember that when the major mass market cruise lines started to market in Europe years ago, the practice was that you had to pre-pay the tips to the travel agency when you paid for the cruise, while this practice did not exist in the United States. This was probably for the reason Beaver is pointing out -- that most Europeans would not pay the tips onboard.

I'm not sure whether that practice is still in force today -- I will check on it.

Kind regards,

Gunther and Uta

[Jayayeff]

I'm British and recently booked a Crystal cruise through a UK travel agent, and for the record the gratuities are not included in the cost of the cruise, but an additional charge to be paid onboard the ship. However, after following this thread I am beginning to get a complex about the whole issue of gratuities. I thought it was really simple, a cruise is a fully inclusive holiday (with the exception of extras) with a set amount of service charge (gratuities) charged to your shipboard account, no problem, I'm comfortable with that and more than willing to pay the amount as one would if staying at an all inclusive resort that adds a percentage service charge to your daily rate for accommodation, meals, entertainment, etc. Additionally I am also comfortable giving an additional amount for the persons who take care of my personal space on the ship, i.e. my stateroom attendants. I now get the impression that this is not the case here and in addition to the gratuities charged to one's account passengers hand out 'tips' left, right and centre to staff in bars, reataurants, concierge, front office, pool deck, etc. etc. and those who don't are frowned upon..... I thought the advent of service charge being added to our hotel, restaurant, bar bills, etc. had consigned this practice to history... Why should a cruise ship be any different????

[cruzpro]

You got everything right but the frowned upon statement. Crystal Cruises will give you excellant service and take care of you very well without so much as a nickle in tips. Guests that don't tip will never ever walk away from a CC feeling like they were second class because they didn't tip. Tipping or not tipping it's all a personal matter between you and the crew. No frowns allowed:) Ernie

[All too soon...]

I now get the impression that this is not the case here and in addition to the gratuities charged to one's account passengers hand out 'tips' left, right and centre to staff in bars, reataurants, concierge, front office, pool deck, etc. etc. and those who don't are frowned upon...

In fact, there is no reason to believe that most passengers tip significantly beyond the recommended tips. If someone provides special service or accomodation, you may have the urge to thank them, and that is fine, but not expected.

Believe me, while some individuals may share their generous practices, for every one of them, there are probably ten here who are silent and merely tip the minimum, plus maybe an occasional thank you to a favorite Headwaiter or bartender.

In 7 Crystal cruises, I have never seen a conspicuous flurry of tipping, aside from envelopes being passed at our own dining table on the final night.

[Judith02]

Your perception re gratuities is correct -- for most passengers. You can have the gratuities added to your stateroom bill -- the form will be at the front desk. The lines are for the stewardess, senior waiter, and waiter (and butler if you are in a penthouse). There are lines for others if you so desire (maitre d', head waiter, etc.). No one on Crystal has their hand out. We tip others when we feel it is called for, not just routinely. What you have read on this board is just some people's opinions. Do what you are comfortable with.