Am I SOL?

[BasenjiMom]

Our cruise/tour starts June 27. The tour part first, so I hope this question is ok for a cruise board.
I called HAL just to see if they had our flights scheduled because there are a lot of arrangements that have to be made depending on the times.

Well they have us arriving in Fairbanks at 11:47 pm on the 27th. Then early on the 28th we are supposed to (or at least I've been told) meet with our guide and then go on the Gold Dredge Tour and then the Riverboat Discovery, both included in the package.

When are we supposed to shower, eat, and most importantly sleep?

My husband and I have not been on a trip alone since our honeymoon 25 yrs ago. We went to Hawaii, went through what we were told was a very nice tour company and had absolutely no complaints None. That's why we opted for a guided tour cuz that's what we had in Hawaii and we liked it.

We have saved 25 yrs for this trip (through blue collar unemployment and worse) and told the TA it was very important to us and we wanted to go on the best we could afford, which she then suggested HAL. This was late July 05 when we booked it so there was plenty of time to work out details.
We picked the room we wanted. I wanted a balcony on the side of the ship that was towards the land going south, and I wanted it in the middle. We booked exactly what I wanted. I just assumed whoever arranges such things would consider it is people who are going on these trips, people that require sleep, people who do not want to hurry scurry everywhere, people who gave up fancy family vacations some years to be able to do this.

I cannot sleep on the plane. I take medicine to sleep, have for 19 yrs since I had my last child. I do not have whatever it takes in your brain to fall asleep. So I take a pill one hour before bedtime. Within a half hour I have to lay down because I walk/look like I am drunk. I never in my wildest imagination thought that this company who was so highly recommended would do this to me. I have to have at least 7 hours to sleep. Any less and I have a headache until the next pill and I'm really dopey and drowsy and my bp rises.
I just don't know what to do. I can't take my pill on the plane because I won't be able to function on the layover.
I know why they did it. I checked online and thes flights are $400 cheaper than the daytime ones. No one told us that when we booked.
I'm not into fancy food, anything they serve on the cruise I'll eat. I don't need fancy flowers or folded towels. I don't care if they make my bed or clean my room. The one thing I physically need is sleep which is why we even elected for early dinner seating. We honestly thought since we did everything so early there would be no problems. If they had told us this would happen I would have told them to give me a cheaper room and I'd pay more for the airfare. Now, the only rooms left are in the basement. The whole ship is booked otherwise so of course what do they care if one person sleeps or not?

So my original question: am I just plain out of luck?
I'm not even sure I want to go anymore if this is how it's all going to start.

[mechcc]

Get with your TA and see if you can change arrangements. Make sure your TA lets HAL know about your medical conditions. While you may be stuck, you have nothing to loose by trying to get your arrangements changed.

Note for future cruises - make your own air arrangements and then book cruiselines tours and transfers from time you arrive at your destination. Crusielines are notorious for booking the worst travel arrangements and connections and charging a premium price.

Also, have to say, your TA should of advised you on this outcome.

[serendipity1499]

Our cruise/tour starts June 27. The tour part first, so I hope this question is ok for a cruise board.
I called HAL just to see if they had our flights scheduled because there are a lot of arrangements that have to be made depending on the times.

Well they have us arriving in Fairbanks at 11:47 pm on the 27th. Then early on the 28th we are supposed to (or at least I've been told) meet with our guide and then go on the Gold Dredge Tour and then the Riverboat Discovery, both included in the package.

When are we supposed to shower, eat, and most importantly sleep?

My husband and I have not been on a trip alone since our honeymoon 25 yrs ago. We went to Hawaii, went through what we were told was a very nice tour company and had absolutely no complaints None. That's why we opted for a guided tour cuz that's what we had in Hawaii and we liked it.

We have saved 25 yrs for this trip (through blue collar unemployment and worse) and told the TA it was very important to us and we wanted to go on the best we could afford, which she then suggested HAL. This was late July 05 when we booked it so there was plenty of time to work out details.
We picked the room we wanted. I wanted a balcony on the side of the ship that was towards the land going south, and I wanted it in the middle. We booked exactly what I wanted. I just assumed whoever arranges such things would consider it is people who are going on these trips, people that require sleep, people who do not want to hurry scurry everywhere, people who gave up fancy family vacations some years to be able to do this.

I cannot sleep on the plane. I take medicine to sleep, have for 19 yrs since I had my last child. I do not have whatever it takes in your brain to fall asleep. So I take a pill one hour before bedtime. Within a half hour I have to lay down because I walk/look like I am drunk. I never in my wildest imagination thought that this company who was so highly recommended would do this to me. I have to have at least 7 hours to sleep. Any less and I have a headache until the next pill and I'm really dopey and drowsy and my bp rises.
I just don't know what to do. I can't take my pill on the plane because I won't be able to function on the layover.
I know why they did it. I checked online and thes flights are $400 cheaper than the daytime ones. No one told us that when we booked.
I'm not into fancy food, anything they serve on the cruise I'll eat. I don't need fancy flowers or folded towels. I don't care if they make my bed or clean my room. The one thing I physically need is sleep which is why we even elected for early dinner seating. We honestly thought since we did everything so early there would be no problems. If they had told us this would happen I would have told them to give me a cheaper room and I'd pay more for the airfare. Now, the only rooms left are in the basement. The whole ship is booked otherwise so of course what do they care if one person sleeps or not?

So my original question: am I just plain out of luck?
I'm not even sure I want to go anymore if this is how it's all going to start.

Understand what you are saying & feel for you..But rather than get yourself so upset please contact your Travel Agent..Perhaps she could work something out for you..Maybe if you explain that you have a medical problem & have to take a sleeping pill they might allow you to pay a little bit more just to get the better flights...If you can get a Doctors note, that might even help..Perhaps HAL would be willing to bring you in late on the 26th if you offer to pay for an extra night in the hotel...

It's not only HAL who books these terrible flights...All the cruise lines tend to book flights & connections for their passengers which are the least desireable & least expensive as they have agreements with the airlines they use..That's the only way they can keep the costs so low..

Good luck & hope you can work it out so you can enjoy your wonderful cruise..Please let us know, how you make out..Betty

P.S. Your topic is fine for these boards.. Welcome to Cruise Critic..

[Sunshine91]

CALL YOUR TA!!! That is his/her job. Are you paying for a night in a hotel pre-tour? You sure aren't getting one. If your flight lands at Fairbanks at 11:47pm you won't even get to the hotel for another hour at least. And that's if the flight lands on-time.

You still have a whole month to get the flights re-arranged, so it shouldn't be a problem. Got my fingers crossed for you.

Welcome to CC & have a fantastic trip.

Just a friendly little advice, especially for a newbie - you might want to reconsider giving out so much personal info (the medical stuff), even on an anonymous board. You just never know who might be "reading over your shoulder." :)

[Atomica]

I agree with the above posters. Contacting your TA and seeing what they can work out is a good first step. I do hope you enjoy your cruise tour once you get over this hurdle. Welcome to the HAL boards!

[kryos]

Well they have us arriving in Fairbanks at 11:47 pm on the 27th. Then early on the 28th we are supposed to (or at least I've been told) meet with our guide and then go on the Gold Dredge Tour and then the Riverboat Discovery, both included in the package.

When are we supposed to shower, eat, and most importantly sleep?

Just get your TA involved and have the date of your flights moved back one day. Then you would have a full day at your hotel before embarking on your tour.

I think they set it up this way because many people would just go right to the hotel on the 27th, sleep for several hours, and then have no problem going on tours. But if this is a problem for you, you could always ask to arrive a day early. Of course, you'd have to pay for an additional night in the hotel, but in order to get your sleep it should be worth it to you.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[Krazy Kruizers]

This has been discussed many times about all the cruise lines booking the worst possible air flights.

You might have to pay an air deviation to get the flights you want.

Good luck - hope you can work out things.

[AAL]

If it is not possible to change your flight reservations, consider skipping the morning tour. The afternoon trip on the Riverboat Discovery departs at 2:30, so that would give you the whole morning to sleep. Some people like to cram activity into every moment of a trip, but I'd choose a good night's sleep over a full day tour too!

Even if you are lucky enough to arrive on time, you won't be in your hotel room until after midnight Alaska time; considering the time change, it will be even later wherever you are from.

It sounds like you have a wonderful trip planned -- enjoy it!

[AAL]

If it is not possible to change your flight reservations, consider skipping the morning tour. The afternoon trip on the Riverboat Discovery departs at 2:30, so that would give you the whole morning to sleep. Some people like to cram activity into every moment of a trip, but I'd choose a good night's sleep over a full day tour!

Even if you are lucky enough to arrive on time, you won't be in your hotel room until after midnight Alaska time; considering the time change, it will be even later wherever you are from.

It sounds like you have a wonderful trip planned -- enjoy it!

[lvtotrvl1]

Did your TA discuss an air deviation when you booked your vacation? If not, he or she should have knowing what tours you are going on. I would discuss it with your TA. They may be able to change the air, but it will be more expensive. Maybe flying in a day earlier as an earlier poster mentioned may help. Keep us up to date!

[cruisequeen10]

I would suggest that you see if you can change your flight for the day before, then you have the next day to do whatever. I always book my own flights and most times go the day before or a couple of days before.

I hope you can get this changed and have a wonderful cruise.

[Host Walt]

I agree with the suggestions provided above, but you may also want to have your TA talk with the tour company to see if you could be assigned to a different group, at least for the first day.

A similar thing happened on a group trip (30 people) to Egypt we took several years ago where a tour was scheduled to leave the hotel at 5:00am Cairo time the morning after we arrived. We were scheduled in at 4:00pm or so but due to a broken airplane we were checked into the hotel at about 11:00pm. 3 couples told the tour leader that they would not be going on the morning tour (the pyramids at Giza) because they required a full night sleep. The leader was able to arrange an alternative tour for those people although it was at the hottest time of the day.

[dare2dream]

I'm sorry your glorious trip is not starting out too well. I hope the suggestions given here by the many experts can help you. The only suggestion I can offer is please don't let this set back ruin your trip. DH and I took cruisetour 13 on the Veendam last August and it was EXCELLENT!! It surpassed all my expectations. THe cruise was fabulous, the cruisetour wonderful, the scenery breathtaking, and the memories priceless.

We also booked HAL air with reservations. This was our first cruise and I did not feel confident enough to book my own air. DS had a local wedding reception on a Saturday afternoon and our cruise left Vancouver on Sunday. I was very worried that HAL would have us leaving on Saturday and missing the reception. We left 6 am Sunday morning and everything worked out fine for us.

I hope this problem can be worked out for you. Have your TA earn their keep and do their job to take care of you, that's what we pay the big bucks for. Good luck, Basenji Mom, please keep us posted here.

By the way, what does Basenji Mom mean?? Is Basenji a pet? Just curious.

Happy cruising to us all,
Brenda

[BasenjiMom]

Thank you everyone for your helpful, uplifting responses.

Yesterday morning I called our TA and told her about the problem. She said she hadn't even received an email about our flights yet. That didn't surprise me because when I called HAL, it seemed like I just got 'lucky' that the gal was able to give me the info.
I must say both our TA and the gal at HAL are very pleasant and polite.

Our TA called me back and said she contacted HAL, told them she was 'furious' and is waiting for them to return her call, though their message says to give them 48 hours to do so.
I told her I was very disappointed in this. I told her we could do those same flights if it was the day before, and we'd be willing to pay for an extra night at the hotel as long as it was the same one.

Though it will cost me hundreds (have to board some dogs an extra day too) I am getting an extra night at a hotel, something not in the contract, so I am willing to pay for it.

However I told her I will not pay any more for the air, nor any 'fee' they may charge to change it because my original contract stiuplates that I paid XX for a flight to Fairbanks, and that is all I am obligated to pay. I feel justified in making the change because it is reasonable and customary to assume a person requires 8 hours of sleep, and in fact that's what medical experts recommned. Doctors have even told me that sleep problems/lack of adequate sleep are a big cause of high bp. I went on line and at travelocity the flights they have us on are a total of $550 less than what our contract says we paid for air. This bit of info adds to my feeling that I should not have to pay extra.

If this is the usual thing that HAL does, it should be stated in the brochures. It is not. I assumed my husband and I will also get to sit together, am I wrong in assuming this? Again, something I feel is reasonable and customary to expect. As is running water in the room, silverware with dinner, keys that work for our rooms. I would love to have a nonstop flight, but it says right in the contract that it is not guaranteed. I have no problem with something that was stated in the contract, because I read it before I signed it.

When we booked our trip, we told the TA that what we liked about our trip so long ago was that it was a guided tour, we never touched our luggage outside of the room, and things were organzied for us. All we had to do was enjoy. We told her, that's what we want, she suggested HAL. Already I feel I will have to have an eye out for ways I will be shortchanged and always have to be alert to things not being done the way I was told they would be or not receiving something I paid for. It is not going to be the carefree trip I envisioned obviously.

Dare2Dream: when you arrived in Alaska, did you have to get your luggage from the airport or did someone else do that for you? Do I have to arrange a way to get to the hotel from the airport since I have added another day? Or is it always the passenger's responsibility?

As for HAL trying to keep costs low, I understand that, but these details should be disclosed. As I said, a normal person would not think they would allow you 4 hours of sleep at night. I KNOW we would have said that is unacceptable, we need to do something else, if we had been told that at booking. It's about choice, not about me not wanting to pay for what I get. I would have said ok, I will pay to do it another way.

The night that we arrive at midnight is considered one night of our 13 day trip that we paid for. Honestly, that's a scam and disgusts me. We are not that type of couple that wants something for nothing, but our blue collar, rural upbringing taught us that when you pay for something you should get it. HAL isn't a US company so I guess they can do whatever they want.

As for personal info being posted, I see your point, but too late now. Thanks for pointing that out.

If this is something that is discussed many times on this board, I suspect it starts with someone like me, someone completely floored that they would do that to people. I did talk to people before we booked and they said go to a TA so we did that. I guess I just don't think one should have to research every little detail of a trip when using one. I was wrong, and have learned a valuable lesson.

As for the Gold Dredge Tour in the morning: that was included in the tour package, not something we added, and the time was not arranged by us. That's what makes this so disgusting, they knew we had an early excursion. Sorry, it tells me they just don't care. Sure, we can skip the excursion, and though I've heard people say it's a little hokey, it is something I want to see. Gold mining was an important part of the state's history, I want to see that. I paid for it, I chose this particular trip partly because of the excursions provided, I want to do it. Not being able to do it would be akin to the ol' bait and switch scam. Where I live, that's illegal. So no, I am not going to give that up. I paid for it, I was promised it.

Last (sorry, this is long I know) I raise and show basenjis. They are a barkless hunting dog originally (and in fact can still be found in) Africa. Today I have 11.

I admit to being a bit rigid in my thinking. My father was self employed and he taught me you give the customer what they paid for, and you expect to get what you pay for. He never tried to scam anyone out of anything. In fact there were a few years we could have gotten free lunches at school and he refused to take them. We booked this in Aug 05 because we knew doing it early would insure we got what we wanted. I am a 'put my ducks in a row' type of person. I expect to get what I paid for, and I expect to be treated as a normal person who requires 8 hours of sleep. I won't nitpick details, I realize things happen and generally keep my mouth shut about little things, but to me, this speaks volumes of this company's attitude towards their customers.

This trip has already put a sour taste in my mouth, I doubt I will take another. I will continue with this trip with an open mind, I am generally a smiler, cheerful and can overlook the bad in a situation and look for the good. I am just disappointed that this has caused me to go into the whole trip thinking I need a watchful eye to make sure I am not being scammed again. Sort of a tiny black cloud that will always be there.

I don't mean to be harsh, and I will have a good time. But I now wish we had arranged everything ourselves, rented an RV and any problems that occured would be our own fault.

I realized about a month and a half ago, when I make the final payment, how I am so emotionally into this trip. When I was a little girl I dreamed of going to Alaska. When I got married, we went to Hawaii instead of buying an engagment ring, we couldn't afford both. Alaska 25 yrs ago was just not the kind of trip we wanted to take then. There were some very lean years, but about 15 yrs ago, we mentioned a dream trip on our 25th anniversary, so we saved, every year. I don't know how to not be emotionally involved.

Love the board, glad I came, intend on having a nice trip despite anything that happens. (It will be an earthquake I'm sure lol Saw a show the other day, Alaska had a 9.2 back in the 60's, they really are due for another!)

I will let you all know the outcome of this situation.
Thank you again for your responses

[Grumpy1]

I certainly hope everything gets straightened out to your satisfaction quickly. There are a few things you should be aware of, though. On air/cruise combinations, the air part is really a crapshoot. Once you book. the air part is turned over to a separate division with basically no instructions except to get you there on time. That department then starts watching the availability and pricing on the possible combinations they could use. If it looks like all flights will be nearly full, they may lock in early at a low price. If it looks like there are a lot of seats available, they may hold off until close to the flight date, hoping to see some last minute discounting. And that doesn't even take into account the leftover seats that the consolidators may be holding for group booking and that they may sell cheap at the end. I have been on two air/cruise combinations where we were not assigned adjacent seats on one flight segment. Again, this results from taking whatever is leftover at the last minute.

A good TA should be aware of all of those things, should explain them to a new cruiser and should advise you that you can pay a deviation fee and lock in flights of your choosing. Apparently, your TA did not do this. It's also apparent that your TA doesn't have a high volume with HAL. One TA that I have used has a number that he can call at HAL that either gets answered immediately or a callback in a matter of minutes. He is also very thorough about finding out about any special requirements that need to be considered in making the booking. Not all TA's are created equal...

[waterbug1]

I am so sorry that you are obviously greatly upset by the flight portion of your trip as it now stands. Your trip is about month away, and your TA and Hal have both been notified of your unhappiness, they will work to correct the situation. This is your dream trip. Please don’t tie yourself in knots of anxiety worrying about the small things. It will work out. Concentrate instead on the fact that you will be in Alaska, with the person you love most in the world. Remember that you have been blessed for 25 years with a partner that you have shared the best of times and the worst of times. You have gone through it all together and you will be together on this trip sharing the scenery, the lovely ship, the adventure and the romance. So few of us have been as blessed as you. May you continue to be blessed with many years and many more trips together.

[krewzin]

Bottom line, you need to ask questions about everything when you book any type vacation....you need to know specifics. If you have certain wants and needs and/or special considerations, make your TA aware of them well in advance so there is no confusion.

The fact that you have utilized a TA for your booking puts the responsibility on his/her shoulders to inform you of anything that might not be to your liking....and correct any problems that might arise.

Gettin in at that late hour is indeed unacceptable in conjunction w/an early morning tour, and your TA should see to it that a viable solution is afforded you (sounds like he/she is doing just that).

In the meantime it sounds to me like you're already expecting this trip to be a bad one, so my advice would be to quickley rid yourself of that "tiny black cloud" and feeling that you're somehow being "scammed."

Attitude can go a looong way in making...or breaking...a vacation.

Trust me...you will have an incredible time.....

[carole52m]

You better calm down and learn to go with the flow. There are so many unplanned things that can happen when you travel - that you need to be calm to deal with them.

If you stress over every detail on your trip - you will miss all the highlights.

[lvtotrvl1]

However I told her I will not pay any more for the air, nor any 'fee' they may charge to change it because my original contract stiuplates that I paid XX for a flight to Fairbanks, and that is all I am obligated to pay. I feel justified in making the change because it is reasonable and customary to assume a person requires 8 hours of sleep, and in fact that's what medical experts recommned. Doctors have even told me that sleep problems/lack of adequate sleep are a big cause of high bp. I went on line and at travelocity the flights they have us on are a total of $550 less than what our contract says we paid for air. This bit of info adds to my feeling that I should not have to pay extra.

Unfortunatly the cruiselines did what the contract stipulates...you received a flight to Fairbanks....they do nt guarantee a time. An air deviation would have to have been done (and paid for) for any requests. It is also not their responsibility to assume everyone needs 8 hours of sleep.
I hate to say it, but maybe cruising is not for you. As one poster stated, not everything always goes as planned, and you sound as if nothing will please you from this point on. I'm sorry to sound harsh, but your posts seem to be getting more derogative each one I read. And if you think the entire trip is a scam I would cancel now before you feel it gets worse. These are things that happen on every cruiseline.

[sweetcat]

You have done all you can for the moment. Alaska is gorgeous. Lived there for 25 years. However, all travel is subject to last minute problems and you have to be able to survive and laugh it off. Get out some guidebooks and start reading again about Alaska and looking at the pictures. Get your mind off the negative.

I lived through the 9.2 in Anchorage in 1964. Not fun but very little loss of life. What an experience though.

Just think about how long you have looked forward to the trip and how much is being done for you that you and husband dont have to think about.

ps even though I have lived there, we are thinking about a cruise to AK.

[BasenjiMom]

Grumpy, thank you for your response. This has been a learning experience for me, that is true. Experience is usually the best educator!
It is very difficult to ask questions about something that you know nothing about. I guess we assumed going to a TA would insure major things like this could be avoided. I do believe now our TA did have a responsibility to warn us, but in her defense, it seems like this is the first time she has seen it. She called the main office who also has a group going on this same tour and they all have the same flights. I honeslty think she will do her best to try remedy it. She called a little bit ago and told me that she was still waiting to hear from HAL. But she did update me with the info about the other travelers.

I naively thought booking in August would insure a decent flight, and sitting next to my husband. I was wrong. I hope they put us in the same cabin on the ship and have us sitting at the same dining table.

Waterbug: it is a shame this has happened, but it won't 'ruin' anything except our first day. If there is nothing we can do about, there is nothing that can be done. But I do feel cheated and won't lie about that.

Krewzin: yes, I have learned I need to ask about everything. Doesn't seem possible if something you assume to be reasonable and customary would apply, but live and learn I guess.
We will still have an incredible time, I do believe that.

carole52m: I'm sorry I gave the impression of not being calm, because I am. I just thought it was important to say WHY I felt a certain way, where my thoughts are coming from. I've raised 3 children to adulthood, I learned a long time ago to be calm when there is a problem LOL
But that being said, this particular detail is a problem, and I am finding out that many others taking the same trip are voicing the same thing. If we do not voice our displeasure in the way we are treated when we purchase something, there will be no change. If this thread gives another newbie questions to ask, then I am glad I posted it. I actually think it might be a good idea to even create a forum: things newbies should know.

Ivtotrvl1: I guess we will have to disagree on whether this is fair. 4 hours of sleep (assuming the planes are on time) and then a day with 2 excursions planned by HAL, in my opinion is not fair. It would be reasonable and customary to assume one would have more time to sleep. Our contract never mentions whether there will be water in our shower, no rats in our room, but it is something I'm sure all people who sign up for such a trip expect. I expect more than you I guess.
I'm sorry you got the impression that I think nothing will please me now. I never stated that, and do not feel that way at all. We are going to Alaska to see the wonders and beauty of the state. That will still happen. All this did was cheat me out of a night (sorry, I do not call arriving at midnight a 'night') and prevent me from functioning well the next day. I'll catch up the next night and will be fine.
Please don't 'hate to say' anything, that's what message boards are for, a way to learn of others' opinions and experiences. I know not everything will go as planned, but when something is going to create a problem, I do feel justified, in fact, even obligated to try and find a solution. My husband worked too hard for this money to do otherwise. (that attitude is a lot of the reason we have been married 25 yrs)

I will be honest and say if the situation does not change, HAL will never be our company of choice again (I will never buy a Chrysler product again also LOL). Though this procedure may be the norm in the industry, how it will be handled now will speak volumes of HAL. I have seen on the aol boards someone who had a similar flight problem (also HAL), he said he complained (used a harsher word but I can't remember it right now) and got his flights changed, with no financial penalty. We shall see how HAL handles my situation.

I will post the outcome when I find out what that is.

[kryos]

Unfortunatly the cruiselines did what the contract stipulates...you received a flight to Fairbanks....they do nt guarantee a time. An air deviation would have to have been done (and paid for) for any requests. It is also not their responsibility to assume everyone needs 8 hours of sleep.
Lesson learned here: NEVER, ever let the cruiseline do your air. It's a recipe for disaster.

I did HAL air once ... and I agree with the other poster ... I fully expect for the set price to get decent flights ... not necessarily flights that will be perfect ... but decent ones. I do not feel I should have to pay some sort of "deviation" fee to get decent flights.

I used HAL air on a b2b cruise on the Zuiderdam in summer of 2004. I only used them because the cruise was partially a graduation gift from my family (I graduated from a four-year online law school program). The gift was for a seven-day cruise with air. I paid for the second half of the b2b.

The air arrangements they gave me were a joke ... and I couldn't get them changed. They had me flying down to Miami on something like a 6:30 a.m. flight. The cruise, by the way, departed from Fort Lauderdale. At least it was a direct flight, though. I got to Miami at something like 9:30 a.m. and of course, it was way too early for the cruise line to transfer us to the pier. So, not only did I have to rush around to get out of work early enough to make a 6:30 a.m. flight (I work night work), but now I got to sit around the Miami Airport for about 3.5 hours until they were ready to bus us to Fort Lauderdale. Sure, the HAL greeters were there to meet us when we landed at 9:30, but all they did was put our luggage on carts, wheel it over to the HAL desk where a rep would be assigned to keep an eye on it, and then tell us to go "explore" the airport and meet back at the desk at about 1:00. Now, what the hell can you do in an airport for 3.5 hours?

The way home was even more fun. They had me on a 3:30 p.m. connecting flight to Philly. At first, I wasn't so concerned ... figured I could always switch to an earlier flight once I got to the airport. Well, guess what? That airline had no earlier flights to Philly! Gotcha! I got to spend 6 hours hanging out at the Miami Airport on that leg.

So, I said ... never again. It's not like HAL air is cheaper, by any means. Quite the contrary, it probably costs double what I would have paid on any of the online booking services. The only advantage to HAL air is that if the flight is late, HAL will have to take financial responsibility for getting you to the first port of call to meet the ship. Some people say that HAL must hold the ship for you in such a case, but that's not true. They are only required to pick up the cost of getting you to the first port of call ... airfare, a night or two at a hotel, whatever. If you make your own air arrangements, you're on your own for that ... and even if you have insurance, most policies will only pay a maximum of $500 for "trip interruption" coverage.

So, it's a matter of what you feel more comfortable with. Do you want the added assurance that HAL will have to accept responsibility if you don't make it to the ship on time? If you do, then by all means ... pay the extra money, and take pot luck on the flights ... or pay the added "deviation" fee to get your choice of flights. But, if you're like me, just take your chances ... book flights that are reasonable and add a margin for leeway ... and take your chances regarding airline problems. Trust me, those flights will be at least 50% better than what HAL will give you, and they will also be at least 50% cheaper in most cases.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[thomasale]

Believe it or not cruise contracts do not even guarantee the seaworthiness of the Ship...Hope all goes well for you but for some reason me thinks not...

[kryos]

I do believe now our TA did have a responsibility to warn us, but in her defense, it seems like this is the first time she has seen it. She called the main office who also has a group going on this same tour and they all have the same flights. I honeslty think she will do her best to try remedy it. She called a little bit ago and told me that she was still waiting to hear from HAL. But she did update me with the info about the other travelers.

Personally, if this were me, I would accept nothing less than a resolution from my TA. If she didn't warn you that using HAL air could result in less than desirable flights, then I would EXPECT her to pay the deviation fee out of her commission if necessary.

I have to honestly admit that the one time I used HAL air, I was warned. My concern at the time was to get flights that didn't involve an overnight stay in the port city (didn't want to blow the extra vacation day ... I was really short) and I wanted assurance that if something went wrong and I missed the ship, HAL would be responsible for getting me to the next port (I had missed the ship on my last cruise due to airline troubles and it had cost me a bundle). My TA warned me that the flights could be less than desirable ones ... and advised me to pay the deviation fee. I stupidly assumed they couldn't be that bad ... and declined to pay the fee. Boy, was I in for a surprise. I don't think the flights HAL chose could possibly have been more inconvenient ones!

I would just advise you to take a tough line with the TA since she didn't warn you about this. Let her know under no uncertain terms that if HAL doesn't do anything for you, then you expect her to ... even if it means she has to cover the deviation fee out of her own commission.

By the way, I can't imagine that HAL would have you and your husband not sitting together on the flight. Getting two seats together shouldn't be a problem this far in advance.

And ... I guess if neither the TA nor HAL is willing to do anything for you ... you can always just skip the morning tour in favor of sleeping in ... as well as giving neither HAL nor your TA any repeat business.

Blue skies and I hope you get a satisfactory resolution to this problem ...

--rita

[middle-aged mom]

...I'm actually very grateful you did. I think that your scenario is food for thought to anyone else who is new to cruising and is unfamiliar with the process. After reading your post I am very, very grateful for the TA I have been using. She told me right up front at time of booking that it was better to do my own air than to use HAL's ( I hope I can say that and not get her in trouble with HAL?) In fact, at my request she went ahead and booked the air portion of our holiday cruise for us, independently of HAL, even though she personally received no commission or benefit for that transaction. Any time I have had any question that she can't answer directly herself, she calls HAL and has an answer for me within hours. It appears that there is quite a variation between travel agents. I am very thankful for ours. (I can't say that I'm such a genius for finding her, cuz I'm not. She's the travel agent my parents have used. Good word of mouth is the best indicator, to me, of a highly professional travel agent.)

I wish you well and Bon Voyage. Please, please if you can, do post your review here when you return. I would very much like to read it:)

[zaandam_2]

You're in for a wonderful cruise. if your TA is worth their salt, they'll remedy this situation.

another piece of advice i'd like to offer is ignore the posters lambasting you.

please do keep us informed.

[sail7seas]

It saddens me for you to embark on a wonderful adventure and a cruise that will be 'the trip of a lifetime' in all probability with the mindset that HAL has tried to scam you. For you to feel you need to be alert to their attempt to scam you further does nothing but add negativity to what should be an exciting, fun, memorable vacation.

HAL does not set out to scam anyone.....I don't believe for one minute anyone purposely booked you on a flight which would allow you scant time to sleep before embarking on your tour.

Their air travel department is in the business of getting people from here to there. They don't carefully read what cruise you are booked on. It doesn't matter. What matters is by what date to they need to have you in what city....leaving from what city? The rep who actually booked your air almost positively did not know you would be going gold mining early the next morning. It really isn't her/his job to know that.

Please be a bit more trusting of a very fine company that has been in business in excess of 130 years. It seems only reasonable to accept if they were out to cheat everyone they can, they would have been out of business long ago.

We all have an obligation to ourselves to use common sense and keep our wits about us. To spend our money with care. But, someplace inside of you....please give them the chance to show you they are a very reputable company.

Sorry for feeling the need for posting this message but I resisted as long as I was able.

I love HAL. I love the ships of HAL. I love the people of HAL.
Are they all perfect? No, of course not. Do they sometimes do silly (indeed, stupid) things? Sure, don't we all from time to time? An air rep in Seattle did the air booking. It is their job to get the lowest possible fare. It was your TA's obligation to explain that to you when you opted for cruiseline air. They never make any promise in regard to the air they book other than to get you to where you are going and to get you home again. The rep did not decide to give you all sorts of anxiety. But managed to do so in the regular process of booking lousy flights......that is why the price is low to the cruise line though not necessarily low to you. No one would willingly opt for that schedule.

Do they purposely go out of their way to cheat people or make them unhappy. Certainly not. They are in the business of selling happy experiences. I think most of us accept they do try hard to please most of us most of the time.

I sincerely hope everything from here on out is flawless for you. I truly want your cruise to 'exceed your expectations'.

Blue skies and calm seas.......

[Opinions]

But managed to do so in the regular process of booking lousy flights......that is why the price is low to the cruise line though not necessarily low to you.


Isn't that the problem?...Cruiselines book the flights that are the most profitable for them regardless if they are "lousy" for the client...If one can find better flights if one books it on their own then a cruiseline could do the same if they were satisfied with a reasonable profit.

[dare2dream]

Thanks for letting us know what happened today with your inquires. I just wanted to pop in and tell you about our airport to terminal transportation. With HAL air we got tags for up to 4 pieces of luggage with the name of our ship on one side and space on the other side for our name and stateroom number. After we checked in at BWI we never saw the luggage again until we got to our cabin on the Veendam. We had a slight layover in Denver. No big deal, but when we arrived our connecting flight was delayed because of fog. We enjoyed the Denver airport for an extra 1 1/2 hours. We completed all our US direct paperwork ahead of time and when we arrived in Vancouver we were escorted to a waiting area for cruise ship passengers. Our name was called and papers reviewed. We then went to the bus waiting area and stood in line to board the correct bus to the Veendam. It was all so simple and easy.

If you are arriving a day ahead of time things will be different for you. I'm sure your TA or the experts on this board will be able to give you accurate information about transportation for you and your luggage.

I hope everything works out for you. I am ready to go again TOMORROW!!

Brenda

[luv2cruise450]

Thank you Sail7Seas for being a voice of reason...you put into words what I was thinking as I read thru the various posters and advisors. BasenjiMom...I believe that by starting your pre-cruise thinking in such a negative mood can only cloud all the joy that you had in planning (for such a long time) this journey to a destination that is absolutely fantastic! One of the joys of traveling or cruising is the pre-trip preparation of learning as much as I can about our destination(s). Perhaps you can de-stress yourself a little by reading up on all the places on your itinerary and anticipating the excitement of seeing these wonderful vistas with your own eyes! I have been fortunate to go to Alaska twice and have taken a cruisetour thru HAL. They do a fantastic job of trying to have you experience as much as possible because for many...it might be their only trip there. This is similar to most escorted land based trips to other world wide destinations where you are up and out early everyday and you are on the go aIl day long with a lot crammed in so that one can experience as much as possible. But for most...these small 'inconveniences' are just an accepted part of travel. I truly believe that HAL had no intentions of making you so upset and to deprive you of sleep on purpose. They are a wonderful cruiseline that has been in business for a very long time (maybe not perfect...but no one is) so if you can let go a little of your anger...and not think that you are being 'scammed/cheated' by them...you will start this trip with a lot less stress. Hopefully your TA will be able to adjust your flights so that you can get the rest you require. And that you will find that this trip and cruise is all that you had hoped it to be since you said that you have wanted to travel to ALaska for a long, long time. We'd love to hear about your experience after you return, so maybe you will post again then.

[sail7seas]

Isn't that the problem?...Cruiselines book the flights that are the most profitable for them regardless if they are "lousy" for the client...If one can find better flights if one books it on their own then a cruiseline could do the same if they were satisfied with a reasonable profit.

This is the reason to use a competent TA. IMO....The OP's Travel Agent should have advised her this is what all cruise lines do. There really is nothing wrong with it. No one has to book their air through the cruise line. They always have the option of booking their own if they are not flexible or willing to roll with whatever flights they are booked on.

This is a for profit company. There is nothing illegal or immoral about making a profit. The shareholders of Carnival Corp. are eager for them to accomplish this.

Do some of the flights they come up with boggle the mind? Absolutely. Should a TA have advised OP she could request air deviation and explained it to her. Should the TA have booked the flights for them seeing as there are specific requirements here? Yes, IMO.

HAL gets a pass on this. IMO They promised to get them there and home. That is all they promised.
TA takes the heat. IMO

[suefalls]

The cruise air problems are not exclusive to HAL . We have Regent air and also had to book our own portion from Denver back to south Dakota.
Here is a breakdown of our travel schedule.
Regent has us booked out of Denver on June 7 At 8am arriving in Vancouver At 10:30 am ( ship leaves port At 5pm) They provide transportation to Ship. We scheduled our air from SoDak for the day before and will stay in hotel the night before because the flights in the morning from SoDak won't arrive in Denver til 7;30 am and no time to collect baggage and get on cruise flight. This isn't bad and we can break up the time and be more relaxed by the time we cruise.
Now the return trip is a different story.
We disembark in Whittier onthe morning of June 14th and take train to Anc. Our flight doesn't leave until midnight for Denver. We will arrive in Denver at 6:30 am and can not get a flight to SoDak til 1pm on the 15th
( we will be on standby list for a 10:30 FLIGHT) We will arrive in Sodak at 3:30pm. So we will have 2 full days of travel going home. In Regents favor , they provide us with a dayroom in Anc. so we will be able to rest and shower before leaving.
We have just made up our minds that it will just be an adventure and we will know what it is like to be "terminal man" (movie) I just made sure DH, who is not a great airport guy, is aware of the times. Just an adventure!
We won't let the long trip home deter us from having a great time on cruise:) Also, we did call United and changed our asiigned seats to better seats so you be able to do this, if your seats aren't together It will all work out.

[kryos]

[B]Their air travel department is in the business of getting people from here to there. They don't carefully read what cruise you are booked on. It doesn't matter. What matters is by what date to they need to have you in what city....leaving from what city? The rep who actually booked your air almost positively did not know you would be going gold mining early the next morning. It really isn't her/his job to know that.

I agree ... I don't think HAL sets out to "scam" anyone. But the way a TA explained it to me is that HAL buys airline seats in bulk. That's how they make money in that Sea/Air department. Hence, they will put you on the flight that they can get seats for at a good price. In my case, who on earth wants a 6:30 a.m. flight to Miami on a Saturday morning? Obviously very few people ... so obviously they got a great price for that seat. On the return trip ... also a Saturday ... their "cheap seats" worked out to be a 3:30 flight out of Miami ... connecting in another city (I forget which one) with almost a two-hour layover there to catch my flight to Philly.

Still, though ... now that I know how it works, I guess I honestly can't blame HAL for how they assign the flights ... they are in the business of making money. And, as you say, how does that rep in the Air/Sea department know that the person who he is booking on that particular flight will only have about five hours to sleep before heading out for an excursion? And, even if he did ... what's to say he has any other alternatives? That may be the only flight he has seats for in his inventory.

Who I do blame, however, is the OP's travel agent, who did not explain to her how Sea/Air works. Obviously that TA didn't want to book the flights herself ... because she generally gets no commissions from the airlines. She would have to do that work basically for nothing ... or charge the OP a service fee for doing it. So, she took the easy way out ... had HAL arrange the air ... and with HAL's air, she got a commission since it was part of the entire cruise package she was purchasing for her clients with HAL.

My TA warned me ... I was just too stupid to listen. That was only my second cruise and my father wanted me to "let the cruise line worry about getting you there" since I had had such a bad experience with the airline (U.S. Air) on my first cruise. Since it was his dollar, I told the TA to go ahead and let HAL book the air. Like I said in the other post, live and learn. Never again.

But at least my TA tried to warn me. This woman's TA did nothing of the sort ... and that is unforgiveable especially since it would appear that the OP is not an experienced traveler. Thus she goes to a TA in order to enjoy the benefit of her expertise ... and her ability to make this trip special by insuring that everything runs smoothly.

And this crap that she and her husband might not be able to sit together on the flight? What? The TA did not warn her about this? I would be absolutely livid if I had to sit 20 rows back from my traveling companion ... especially on a long flight. That would be totally unacceptable to me.

I hope the TA makes good on this for her. While it is true, she could skip the early tour, why should she have to forego something she paid for ... and that maybe she would like to do? No, I think the TA has an obligation to her client in this case ... either pull every string she has with HAL to get those flights changed ... at no additional cost to the OP ... or cover the deviation fee out of her own commission.

Blue skies ...

--rita

[carole52m]

I think the posts about HAL not scamming someone are very accurate. HAL is still a company that needs to earn a profit - they cater to a particular eschelon of the population and answer most of their needs. This is how they market - this is how they deliver.

One item you mentioned in an early quote is that you are not a frequent traveller. As someone who has travelled quite a bit for both business and pleasure - there are some rules that I always observe.

Know that there will be snafu's that you cannot control -

1. Imagine that you were booked on a flight giving you 8 hours of sleep and there were equipment problems or weather problems preventing take-off - so that you arrived with less than 2 hours sleep. Likely - no - but possible - yes. You just can't control this and no amount of planning can prevent this

2. There ia a high liklihood that a valuable piece of luggage will be temporarily lost - ways around this - pack medicines and a minimum of a change of undies in your carryon luggage.

3. Some part of the itinerary has to change due to weather, or whatever - just go with the flow - when we went to Alaska they couldnt get really close to the glacier on Glacier Bay because of the amount of ice in the water - we saw it but from further off than other cruises did in previous weeks.

Travel is an adventure - and you have to view it that way. And adventure also implies misadventure.

HAL is a great line - but is still a line for the masses-perhaps a bit more well-heeled masses - but still the masses. If you want custom travel and have the needs of a rock star - you would need to hire your own yacht and crew. The cruise lines work for the needs of the majority of the passengers they see thenselves as serving and also to make money. That is not to say that on board you wont receive excellent personal service - you will - but within a planned for range of service. You will have an attentive cabin person - attentive waiters - better than average food - all of that.

Have a wonderful cruise - Alaska is great!!!

[serendipity1499]

Well said Sail..My thoughts exactly! Can't imagine any reasonable person believing that HAL is out to "Scam" them, especially after their original post was answered by experienced cruisers who advised her to contact the travel agent...They also said that all cruise lines book this way..And the agent telling her she had never seen this happen before, only means she is not an experienced cruise agent..This fiasco is clearly the Travel Agents fault period!

[Host Walt]

......If this thread gives another newbie questions to ask, then I am glad I posted it. I actually think it might be a good idea to even create a forum: things newbies should know. ...

There is such a forum, and there's also a lot of material on Cruise Critic for "Newbies."

The Cruise Critic Forum is FIRST TIME CRUISERS (http://boards.cruisecritic.com/forumdisplay.php?f=97)

The Cruise Critic Material FIRST TIME CRUISER RESOURCES (http://www.cruisecritic.com/ftc/index.cfm)

[MumsTheWord*]

BasenjiMom,
I am sorry for the heartbreak that you are encountering over the airline arrangements for your upcoming cruise.

This should be a time of joyful, anticipation....especially since this is your very first cruise.

Here's hoping it all gets worked out for you!

And by the way,

HAPPY ANNIVERSARY!:p

[Bucky3]

I have not read ALL of the posts here, but I have a suggestion: Your TA may not have mentioned and you may not know that is stays LIGHT in Alaska until well past bedtime and then only a VERY few hours of darkness. You may want to take a sleep mask and be sure you're curtains are shut TIGHT to keep the light out if it will bother you. We just returned from our Alaska cruise with HAL, had a great time with excellent service, good food, and THE MOST comfortable bed. I surely hope you enjoy your adventure - and have a wonderful Anniversary Celebration. Bucky

[BasenjiMom]

[quote=kryos]Personally, if this were me, I would accept nothing less than a resolution from my TA. If she didn't warn you that using HAL air could result in less than desirable flights, then I would EXPECT her to pay the deviation fee out of her commission if necessary.


This is the attitude I have taken at this time. However, there are over 50 other people with the exact same problem. I don't see how HAL can fix it for all 50.

I feel I have been fair: I have told the TA that I am willing to fly that exact same schedule, only a night earlier, and I would pay the extra night at the hotel as long as it's the same hotel, and as long as someone arranges for me to get from the airport to the hotel.

I called her today, she still had not heard from HAL. I asked if they dealt with HAL before and she said OH YES. We even have our own representative. They said they are taking the calls in the order received. She is the manager of this office so I would assume she knows what she is doing? So far, she understands that the current situation will just not work and it must be changed. I told her MUST. I will give both her and HAL the opportunity to fix this. Honestly, I don't think wanting to sleep the night before a busy day is something only a rock star should expect.

I also gave her another option: I told her we would be willing to add on a package that HAL has that is a one day trip. It would cost us about $1300 more when it's all said and done, but we would cancel a $400 excursion we already purchased. It is currently waitlisted so I doubt that is an option. But I do feel these two options that I have offered are more than fair.
I honestly think these TA's are completely floored by the flight schedule. I honestly think they will try to fix it, but it IS going to take some compromise on HAL's part too.

Someone mentioned to ignore the lambasting. LOL Really, when you post to a message board, it's pot luck. I have enjoyed the mini psych sessions though. I do know they are well intentioned. I assure everyone, this will not ruin our trip. I know that HAL has changed flights when people have complained, without a fee. If they fix this, fine, I will say they fixed it and consider using them again in the future. If they don't fix it, I can only assume it's cuz I didn't complain loud enough which is unfair. In that case, I will also relay what happened, and never give them my business again. Their loss, we saved for 3 kids to go to college and 2 got scholarships and one joined the Navy. We are planning more trips.

" Know that there will be snafu's that you cannot control -

1. Imagine that you were booked on a flight giving you 8 hours of sleep and there were equipment problems or weather problems preventing take-off - so that you arrived with less than 2 hours sleep. Likely - no - but possible - yes. You just can't control this and no amount of planning can prevent this"

IMO, things that happen beyond HAL's control are perfectly acceptable. However to arrange these flight from the get go, knowing of the excursion THEY planned, imo, is wrong and along with the night of the late arrival being considered one of our 13, a scam. Someone here went into detail on how HAL does their bookings. Well, to be honest, I don't care how they do it. All I care is the end product. Either they will listen to complaints and make changes or they will not, hopefully they will do for all what I know they have done for others. But I am of such character I could not just stay silent. That being said, I will be the first to commend them if this is remedied satisfactorily. I think my two options I suggested above to remedy it for me are quite generous on my part. I think maybe the various opinions on this situation stem from how we were raised, where we were raised, and our age, and probably other things too. I'm a call 'em as I see 'em type of gal, even more than I was as a kid.

Thank you for posting the New Cruiser info, I will check it out.

I appreciate all the comments very much and thank everyone for taking time out of their days to respond. I will certainly post with updates, and will try to give an honest recap of our trip when we return. Rest assured, we will have a glorious time. Now, I must get acquainted with my new camera and finish making my dress for formal night.

[sail7seas]

IMO, things that happen beyond HAL's control are perfectly acceptable. However to arrange these flight from the get go, knowing of the excursion THEY planned, imo, is wrong and along with the night of the late arrival being considered one of our 13, a scam. Someone here went into detail on how HAL does their bookings.

I wish I were a better writer and could express to you in a way I could make myself understood that the air reservation person has nothing to do with the excursion department and truly has no reason to be.

They cannot be responsible for keeping track of who is booked to go gold mining.

Their job is to book flights....not to review everyone's particular cruise and excurions both pre and post.
That is what you have a TA for.
If you have a less than stellar TA, don't blame the person in HAL's air department.

I think you TA has done a shoddy piece of work.....predicated only upon the information you have provided as that is all we know about.

To say you think of the tens of thousands/millions of people who cruise every year that the people booking the air for that percentage that use the cruiseline's air, all of their plans for the day they arrive in their embarkation port or the day after should be considered when arranging flights......well, .....don't count on it.

I hope your TA has done some good work for you (finally) and has made adequate arrangements for you.

Please keep us posted. Hope it works out to your satisfaction.

[CruisingAlong4Now]

It seems to me that no one on a cruise gets 8 hours of sleep every night. Between staying up to see the shows and enjoying a walk around the deck under the Alaska midnight sun (maybe hit the casino?), and then getting up early for the shore excursions...

Five to six hours sleep would be my estimate of the high side of the average cruisers' sleep.

Hope you can work out an equitable arrangement with your TA and HAL.

[Grumpy1]

I wish I were a better writer and could express to you in a way I could make myself understood that the air reservation person has nothing to do with the excursion department and truly has no reason to be.

They cannot be responsible for keeping track of who is booked to go gold mining.

Their job is to book flights....not to review everyone's particular cruise and excurions both pre and post.
That is what you have a TA for.
If you have a less than stellar TA, don't blame the person in HAL's air department.

I think you TA has done a shoddy piece of work.....predicated only upon the information you have provided as that is all we know about.

To say you think of the tens of thousands/millions of people who cruise every year that the people booking the air for that percentage that use the cruiseline's air, all of their plans for the day they arrive in their embarkation port or the day after should be considered when arranging flights......well, .....don't count on it.

I hope your TA has done some good work for you (finally) and has made adequate arrangements for you.

Please keep us posted. Hope it works out to your satisfaction.


I agree with most of your points, Sail, but my opinion is that if I book an air/land/sea/ package with HAL, where HAL is aware of every aspect of the tour, then HAL should have an obligation to inform the air desk of the particulars and instruct the air desk to provide appropriate flights. If they are not going to do that, then I would never use HAL to book the air portion.

[sail7seas]

To say you think of the tens of thousands/millions of people who cruise every year that the people booking the air for that percentage that use the cruiseline's air, all of their plans for the day they arrive in their embarkation port or the day after should be considered when arranging flights......well, .....don't count on it.



Anyone have any idea what in the world I was trying to say here? I sure don't. :( Sorry for the tortuous, strangulated gibberish.

[Copper10-8]

Anyone have any idea what in the world I was trying to say here? I sure don't. :( Sorry for the tortuous, strangulated gibberish.



I think I get your point, it just needs a little sharpening. Did you spent some time in politics?;)

[Pudgesmom]

Anyone have any idea what in the world I was trying to say here? I sure don't. :( Sorry for the tortuous, strangulated gibberish.




It was a good try, Sail, but I have to agree with Grumpy here. If HAL is going to sell the air as part of their package, then it is their responsiblity to provide what we call in the airlines, "crew rest."

While I understand the desire to get the least expensive flights, its not fair to sell the deal as a package, and then say, "Sorry, its not my table."

Hal has an obligation for those who have booked directly with them. These packages are probably more difficult, as the cruise line would be more used to a passenger who would board about lunchtime or after, then sail in the afternoon. Neverless, they are dropping the ball completely when providing less than 8 hours between a night arrival and an AM excursion.

Beth

[Jana White]

I am so sorry you are upset about this. Flying to Alaska is not an easy task. There are limited flights and many many many of them get in late at night. The cruise lines promise only to get you there at in time for your tour to begin. It is not their fault that the airlines have so few flights to Alaska. I went to Alaska last May on a cruise and booked my own airfare after finding out that Holland America could not guarantee what time I would arrive. The airfare was a lot more that Holland America quoted, but I got that nights sleep that I wanted. DO NOT let this ruin your vacation. Alaska is amazing. I have cruised there 4 times and would NOT hesitate to go again given an opportunity

[JXOPF]

One word reappeared in your posts several times: Assume.

NEVER assume. Do your homework and get your own answers for peace of mind.

Alaska is awesome. Try to shake off the preexisting negative opinions and please make up your mind to have a wonderful second honeymoon cruise. I'm sure it will happen. Bon voyage!

[sail7seas]

It was a good try, Sail, but I have to agree with Grumpy here. If HAL is going to sell the air as part of their package, then it is their responsiblity to provide what we call in the airlines, "crew rest."

While I understand the desire to get the least expensive flights, its not fair to sell the deal as a package, and then say, "Sorry, its not my table."

Hal has an obligation for those who have booked directly with them. These packages are probably more difficult, as the cruise line would be more used to a passenger who would board about lunchtime or after, then sail in the afternoon. Neverless, they are dropping the ball completely when providing less than 8 hours between a night arrival and an AM excursion.

Beth

IMO......that is the reason her TA should have informed her of the usual and regular that often happens with cruiseline flights and right from the start should have arranged for her to travel to Alaska the day before.

She says she is willing to pay an addtional night in the hotel and any competent TA would have made those plans IMO

I think she has a less than fanastic TA who did not pay attention to her clients needs and desires.

I don't think that is HAL's air department's responsibility.

I respect others do not agree.

[BumperII]

This is the attitude I have taken at this time. However, there are over 50 other people with the exact same problem. I don't see how HAL can fix it for all 50.

I honestly think these TA's are completely floored by the flight schedule. I honestly think they will try to fix it, but it IS going to take some compromise on HAL's part too.

I know that HAL has changed flights when people have complained, without a fee. If they fix this, fine, I will say they fixed it and consider using them again in the future.

BasenjiiMom,

Thank you for starting this thread and sharing your experience. I'm joining this late, and the last several posts don't include you, so, please keep us updated, I'm dying to see how you finally get this resolved.

Yes, HAL can resolve the problems with fifty unhappy customers, they do it all the time in the cruise industry, and the ability to resolve these issues is a good part of how the cruise industry expanded, in fact exploded in the past fifteen years. We have only sailed on HAL once before, we now have three more cruises booked. I don't know about the tour and air parts, but on board ship, the customer service is outstanding, and they very much practice "The customer is always right". And you are absolutely right, they will change flight schedules when they get a customer complaint.

I suggest that you have a plan B lined up in case your TA doesn't get the problem resolved promptly. If you don't get satisfaction from you TA, then go to HAL Customer service, and you still have time to get to your local TV Station consumer affairs reporter. Sometimes a phone call from a newspaper, magazine or TV station gets prompt attention. But I suggest you take it one step at a time.

We have booked all of our cruises with *************.com, but our entire extended family only deals with one agent. Actually all of our kids had been on cruises before we went on our first one, so she, TA is sort of like the family doctor, only for cruising. To her credit, from the get go, she advised us to make our own air arrangements. On one trip she had us do our own car rental, and told us the agency that provided the service we needed.

We did the same thing you did, raised and educated our kids, and made sure money would be available for the education of our grandchildren. But now it is our turn, and yes, now it is your turn too.

Please, Please keep us advised.

PS if you have an anonymous email address, feel free to email me at BumperII@yahoo.com.

[mini_momma]

If you were to change your flight to a day before the cruise starts, I don't believe that HAL will be at the airport and transport you to the hotel. The transfers I was told are only for the day of embarkation from the airport to the ship. I don't know what the rules are for even if you use their air and hotel. I was just looking into flying into a port a couple of days early and doing my own hotel. If you don't know for 150% for sure - ask your travel agent all the questions you can think of, that is what they are there for. If they can't answer then tell them to find out.

If a/c is important to you, double check with any hotel you book. We thought that a/c was not important in Alaska. Boy were we wrong, a heat wave of over 90 degree temperatures and only tiny windows with heavy drapes to hold out the sunshine even at 3:00 am.

Did your travel agent warn you about the mosquitoes? They are big enough to haul a large dog away. Don't forget the deep woods off, you will need it. The weather is changeable, rain, heat and cool. A light windbreaker, gloves and a hat are all that we needed while cruising the glaciers. Shorts and tee shirts in Fairbanks. Rain coats in Sitka.

You might want to look at your local library for some travel books that give pointers for cruising and for Alaska.

MM

[ocngypz]

http://www.dot.state.ak.us/faiiap/pdfs/airlinescheduledarrival.pdf

There's the flight arrival schedule for Fairbanks. You can play connect the flights backward to your own gateway using expedia or orbitz.

Fairbanks air is a nightmare.. into and out of........from all gateways.

[BasenjiMom]

My TA called Sunday night, but it took me a while to find this thread LOL

Anyway, all has been fixed. There are no extra fees involved, though I have no idea if the TA is paying them, or if HAL isn't charging her.
Any one of the folks in the area who wished it, got their flights changed also.

We are arriving in Fairbanks at 5 pm on the day we originally booked.

Thanks all for you suggestions and comments. This site is very helpful and I truly appreciate those who take the time to help others.

[crystal808]

BasenjiMom:

I'm delighted that your TA came through and got the scheduling you needed!

Now you can contemplate your "virgin" status, as it will soon be gone! ;)

And, just a warning: cruising is addictive. :eek:

'Nuff said! Have a tremendous time!

Paul :)