Disembarkation restrictions in Libya

[sandy1020]

some of HAL cruises (originating and ending in Europe) have ports of call in Libya and certain passengers are restricted from disembarking the ship, for a variety of reasons -mostly safety issues and certain Libyan restrictions. It restricts who might choose to go on those particular cruises. (example Prinsedam and Rotterdam) I would have been interested in the other ports but would not be happy to be stuck on the boat for an extra 1-3 days while docked in Libya. By the way, this is true of all the cruise lines Too bad, I'm sure that Libya would be fascinating to visit, but I guess they don't want me.

[Navy_Chief]

Personnally, I don't give a hoot for a country which sponsored the murder of those folks just trying to come home for Christmas and the ones killed on the ground in Lockerbee. :mad: Not to mention the night club in Germany frequented by US Servicemen. I don't understand why HAL even desided to go there. If I was on that itinerary, wild horses couldn't drag me off that ship!

[sail7seas]

Ditto, 'Chief'. I wouldn't spend a dime there.

[Roz]

Who are the "certain passengers"? Is it based on religion, ethnicity, country of origin? Occupation? Explainez-vous, si vous plait.

Roz

[Randyk47]

Personally I'd not book a cruise with a stop in Libya. Navy_Chief outlined the main reasons but secondly we still work for the government and I'd not want to expose ourselves to potential problems. Having said that, Libya notwithstanding, there are ports that we don't get off the ship and just relax and enjoy ourselves in the spa or pool. Long gotten over the "got to get off and see every port" feeling.....a few we've been to and done that a number of times so staying on the ship is just fine.

[Pudgesmom]

Personnally, I don't give a hoot for a country which sponsored the murder of those folks just trying to come home for Christmas and the ones killed on the ground in Lockerbee. :mad: Not to mention the night club in Germany frequented by US Servicemen. I don't understand why HAL even desided to go there. If I was on that itinerary, wild horses couldn't drag me off that ship!


Many countries have killed American citizens in the past, and many more will do so in the future. Have you also crossed England, Germany and Japan off your list?

Beth

[sandy1020]

Who are the "certain passengers"? Is it based on religion, ethnicity, country of origin? Occupation? Explainez-vous, si vous plait.

Roz
U.S. citizens, Israeli citizens people born in the U.S. or Israel. people with an Israeli stamp on their passport. Why are the cruise lines even going there?

[Sayyadina]

I was also surprised when I read ships were visiting Libya. I don't think I would go there, either, for the same reasons, although I would be curious to see if that which we have demonized lives up to that image. I'd like to think that people (and places) can change. But my FIL is a Vietnam Vet and you can't get him to eat rice or anything else he would consider asian. I understand and let it be.

[dakrewser]

I'd rather go to Cuba than Libya. More to the point, I'd rather go to Tunisia than Libya. But I also think stopping at HMC is a waste of a port day.

Get off the boat or not, it doesn't matter to me - or to the Libyans. Just don't drag your politics into my vacation...

[Navy_Chief]

Many countries have killed American citizens in the past, and many more will do so in the future. Have you also crossed England, Germany and Japan off your list?

Beth

Big difference between a country declaring a war and terrorists being sponsored by a country that wouldn't have the nerve to openly declare war on the US or any other country and would rather sponsor terrorists to murder people (not just US citizens). There were more that US citizens flying on Pan Am 103 not counting the Scottish who were killled when the plane fell on Lockerbee. With that said, feel free to visit them but I won't support them.

[Stevesan]

Despite their "rehabilitation" in 2003, I'm among those who have no desire to visit Qhadafi's fiefdom.

However, for those interested in learning about the cruise line entry restrictions can read the U.S. Department of State's section headlined Entry/Exit Requirements. It's probably more than you wanted to know:

http://travel.state.gov/travel/cis_pa_tw/cis/cis_951.html

[sandy1020]

With the U.S. such an important market to HAL(and other cruise lines) Why are these companies including these ports that one can not visit.?? as well a stamp on one's passport from the holy land will not allow you into Libya

[dougnewmanatsea]

Personally, I'd like to visit Libya. If I supported the government of every country I visited, most of the world would be closed off to me.

That said, to be honest, I don't understand the point of these port calls if US citizens can't enter Libya. At least in my experience, the vast majority of HAL passengers are from the US. Why waste time calling at a port where most of the passengers can't disembark?

[Navy_Chief]

I don't understand the point of these port calls if US citizens can't enter Libya. At least in my experience, the vast majority of HAL passengers are from the US. Why waste time calling at a port where most of the passengers can't disembark?

The million dollar question.....What are they thinking....

as well a stamp on one's passport from the holy land will not allow you into Libya

It has the potential of making you a target. Carrying a military ID in 1985 instead of a passport made a sailor by the name of Stetham a target, cost him his life. Since then, all military personnel carry a passport when traveling overseas.

The State Department issues these warnings for a reason. I'll bet you don't see any NCL ships pulling in there.

[dot73]

Americans may comprise a large part of HAL's passengers, but HAL also sells cruises to people from other countries. If a person can't get off the ship in Libya or doesn't want to because of their personal feelings, they can choose a different European itinerary or stay on the ship. It's called freedom of choice. There are many people, Americans included, who want to visit countries despite the fact that they may not agree with its politics. I personally hate communism and Fidel Castro, but my trip to Cuba was amazing. What I learned by visiting Cuba, I could never have learned from a book. It would have been a real shame to miss learning about this beautiful country and its amazing citizens, just because of its corrupt government. I have very strong feelings about George Bush and his policies, but it has not stopped me from travelling to the U.S. and enjoying the company of Americans, who are fabulous people. If HAL doesn't make money on this itinerary, they will drop it. Obviously, they must have enough people wanting to see Libya since they have this itinerary. People should follow their conscience in where they will travel. This is just an opinion of one person. I love reading these boards because of the various opinions people have here and the great discussions that can ensue on various topics.

[NoNoNanette]

I'd been under the impression that Libya was "now open" for Americans....NO???:confused:

As I'm not a jew, nor anti-Muslim, I'd love to visit Libya. (If my politics/religion were different, I might change my mind)

[Firststatecruiser]

It remains to be seen whether US citizens will be allowed to disembark now that diplomatic relations have been renewed with the government of Libya in the past few weeks.

[dougnewmanatsea]

It has the potential of making you a target.
An Israeli passport or passport stamp? I suppose it does, but like Libya, most Muslim countries simply won't let people carrying Israeli passports or passports with Israeli stamps into the country to begin with.

I believe if you have a passport with an Israeli stamp, it is possible to obtain a second passport to use in these countries, though I'm not sure of the details.

Most Muslim countries do allow US citizens in; just not ones with Israeli passport stamps.

I'll bet you don't see any NCL ships pulling in there.
I don't think NCL calls there, but it probably has as much to do with the fact that they have a limited range of very mainstream Europe itineraries as anything else.

NCL ships that sail outside Hawaii are not US-flag so I do not think they would be any more of a target than HAL ships.

Americans may comprise a large part of HAL's passengers, but HAL also sells cruises to people from other countries.
This is true - but my guess is that at least two-thirds of HAL passengers, maybe more, are US citizens, so to me it doesn't make much sense for them to go to a country that doesn't welcome American citizens.

On the other hand, I think it makes perfect sense for Costa, MSC or other lines not marketed primarily to Americans to go there if the demand exists.

[Navy_Chief]

Well I'm not Jewish nor am I anti Muslim, just someone who doesn't like terrorists. Now there may not be any there now, but there were. Maybe even the same guy who drove that truck into the marine barracks in Beirut. I've been to Tunisia, Morocco, (enjoyed both), Algeirs (had an opportunity to get off the ship, taking an armored Suburban to the embasy - place looked nice from the other side of the bullet proof glass). My oppinion has nothing to do with US foreign policy, I just don't want to put my head in the lions den or sleep with a cobra. I'll elect to gladly stay on the ship :D

[Copper10-8]

Many countries have killed American citizens in the past, and many more will do so in the future. Have you also crossed England, Germany and Japan off your list?

Beth

That's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves. There are indeed veterans of WWII, or for that matter citizens of the countries occupied by the Axis powers in WWII (my parents were part of those folks), who refuse or refused to set foot on German, Italian or Japanese soil. Ditto for North Korea (a tourist's haven:eek: ) and Vietnam. It depends on the personal beliefs of those folks. The same goes for former military personnel who served when countries like Libya, open sponsors of terrorism not too long ago, were considered our enemy. I certainly respect the Chief's (and others) decision not to get off the boat in Tripoli.

[Pudgesmom]

That's a personal decision that everyone has to make for themselves. There are indeed veterans of WWII, or for that matter citizens of the countries occupied by the Axis powers in WWII (my parents were part of those folks), who refuse or refused to set foot on German, Italian or Japanese soil. Ditto for North Korea (a tourist's haven:eek: ) and Vietnam. It depends on the personal beliefs of those folks. The same goes for former military personnel who served when countries like Libya, open sponsors of terrorism not too long ago, were considered our enemy. I certainly respect the Chief's (and others) decision not to get off the boat in Tripoli.

I agree with you here. My response was more in regard to the post detailing the infringements and attacks on Americans by Libya. I found it highly political and not in keeping with the tenor of this board.

I respect anyone's decision not to visit a certain country, but I would rather not relive any past or present government or terrorist activities on Cruise Critic.

Beth

[Copper10-8]

I agree with you here. My response was more in regard to the post detailing the infringements and attacks on Americans by Libya. I found it highly political and not in keeping with the tenor of this board.

I respect anyone's decision not to visit a certain country, but I would rather not relive any past or present government or terrorist activities on Cruise Critic.

Beth

Makes sense, Beth!

[karen2cruz]

This does need to be discussed, as cruiselines decide future itineraries. Based on the follwoing warning from the US State dept - what was HAL thinking?

U.S. DEPARTMENT OF STATE
Office of the Spokesman
--------------------------------------------------------------------------

This information is current as of today, Wed Jun 14 08:39:57 2006.

Libya

December 23, 2005


This Public Announcement reminds Americans of the current security situation in Libya and provides updated contact information for the U.S. Liaison Office in Tripoli. The United States Department of State continues to warn U.S. citizens traveling to Libya to exercise caution. This Public Announcement supersedes the Public Announcement dated November 1, 2005, and expires on June 28, 2006.

The U.S. lifted restrictions on the use of U.S. passports for travel to Libya in February 2004. While Libya has taken steps to cooperate in the global war on terrorism, the Libyan Government remains on the U.S. Government’s State Sponsors of Terrorism List.

Recent worldwide terrorist alerts have stated that extremist groups continue to plan terrorist attacks against U.S. interests in the region. Therefore, any American citizen who decides to travel to Libya should maintain a strong security posture by being aware of surroundings, avoiding crowds and demonstrations, keeping a low profile, and varying times and routes for all required travel.

[Sayyadina]

I believe if you have a passport with an Israeli stamp, it is possible to obtain a second passport to use in these countries, though I'm not sure of the details.

I'm not sure about this, either, but I know you *used* to be able to do this, especially if you were in the employ of the military or one of the 'snoop' agencies of the government. One passport for Israel and one for everyone else. My, ah, family member had two when he was working for, um, someone in the 60's. In fact, he recently told me he was 'checking in' to a country and accidentally gave them the wrong passport. Thank god the guy behind the counter was a nice guy, he said under his breath "Sir, is it possible you have another one of these...?" They quietly switched them and all was well. But he could have gotten in a LOT of trouble.

[Randyk47]

Out of curiousity I just talked to my security folks. They would prefer I not even be on a ship that stopped in Libya and no way would they "let" me get off the ship. Their specific response was "Don't even think about it!!" :o

[Ides of March]

I was just on the Circle of the Sun cruise starting last January on the Prinsendam. We were to have made two stops in Libya but they were scrubbed at the last minute as Americans were not allowed to disembark. They substituted Kusadasi, Athens and Malta which was jake by me.The Good Captain could have put Canadians and others ashore but declined as a matter of personal policy.

We had a number of ex-marines onboard some of whom had chosen the cruise primarily for the Lybia stop to see and collect sand from the "Shores of Tripoli". They wanted to "bookend" the Marine Hymn as one put it. They were bitterly disappointed with the cancellation as they viewed it as probably their last chance to visit a most inaccessible historic site where the Corps left a lot of blood on the beach.

Sargeant Major Jim has a Marine Corps shrine in his home with soil from all the major battlegrounds where Gyrenes fought and died. He was somewhat placated when a Canuck pax with a buisness connection in Tripoli arranged for a bottle of sand to be sent directly to Jim so at least the cruise provided him with a connection that got the job done.

I was very surprised with the negative reaction after the cancellation announcement until I learned peoples motivations. You can never assume you know what turns other peoples crank.

Ides

[Copper10-8]

Ides; there is no such thing as an ex-Marine! Only former Marines!;)

[wander]

From reading the 2 CC boards related to Africa and to the Prinsendam, it is evident that some folks are only taking specific cruises because of Libya and appear to be ready to protest, become obnoxious (my word) on the ship, bad mouth HAL, etc. if they cannot visit Libya.

One poster implied that this would be many of the folks on the cruise. I questioned the use of "many" as I thought that "many" would realize that such a stop may not be feasible and would be prepared for such a possibility. That aside, it is evident that it is a popular cruise selection, in part at least because of Libya.

I might add that I do understand the various perspectives on visiting Libya and respect each person's right to make the decision for themself, whether I agree with it or not.

[Navy_Chief]

I agree with you here. My response was more in regard to the post detailing the infringements and attacks on Americans by Libya. I found it highly political and not in keeping with the tenor of this board.

I respect anyone's decision not to visit a certain country, but I would rather not relive any past or present government or terrorist activities on Cruise Critic.

Beth

Beth,

Sorry if I offended you but you have to understand, my active duty years were spent in the 80's watching shipmates die at the hands of these guys and we had our hands tied. Our rules of engaugement were geared to the USSR and not these people. It's not political, it's a military man's point of view.