Dear Mr. Del Rio thread on Oceania

[marienbad]

If you want to read something incredible, read the Dear Mr. Del Rio thread on Oceania. People who had paid for their cruise with an assigned cabin were bumped from the "oversold" cruise on three days notice. Apparently this is not a hoax, and contracts (at least with Oceania) permit this.

[pvangordon]

Interesting. I feel like I've just read War and Peace, run a marathon, given birth to twins, and aged twenty years in that thread.

First reaction was to say I'll never try Oceania now. But the message from FDR was very good and exactly what should be done. They made a mistake and mishandled it, but the compensation offered seems reasonable. Go go CruiseCritic!!!

[BeBeReader]

Oceania, through Mr. Del Rio, has now agreed in writing to the world through the internet to never bump any paid passengers involuntarily. This binds the company.

One can, however, assume that Oceania will continue its standing overbooking practice. So make sure to get a room assignment and not some vague guarantee of a room assignment.

[Aruba]

I am amazed at the power of the CruiseCritic message boards! This has been a vicarious emotional rollercoaster for a lot of people. We booked an Oceania cruise to the Baltics in August 07, so have been quite interested in how Oceania would respond to this situation. I'm very impressed with Oceania and with Mr Del Rio's response.

[MMastell]

I'm glad that Seesick and Toranut97 continued to respond with specific information after being questioned by the "board detectives". If they had been intimidated nothing would have ever come about. Actually some of Seesick's information was a bit too specific and should be removed at this time.

It just shows: If you're a troll you post and run. If you are legit stand your ground.

I also hope that a customer service and a "policy" refresher course is done with a few people at Oceania because of this incident.

Take care,
Mike

[dabear]

Where can I find FDR's response that they will not bump any passenger involuntarily?. I wish to review and keep it in the event that anything so terrible as this is attempted to me. If Oceania continues this bumping policy I think the better way to respond is to publish this in appropriate media as that would hurt far more than litigation.

[pacmom]

Having given birth to twins, I think it was easier than reading that thread. Remember there is that wonderful "obstectrical amnesia", don't think I could ever forget something like what just transpired while Mr. Fdr was out of town. What happens if he takes a vacation? Pat

[LHT28]

Where can I find FDR's response that they will not bump any passenger involuntarily?. I wish to review and keep it in the event that anything so terrible as this is attempted to me. If Oceania continues this bumping policy I think the better way to respond is to publish this in appropriate media as that would hurt far more than litigation.

Page 7 of the other thread on Mr Del Rio

[MMastell]

Where can I find FDR's response that they will not bump any passenger involuntarily?. I wish to review and keep it in the event that anything so terrible as this is attempted to me. If Oceania continues this bumping policy I think the better way to respond is to publish this in appropriate media as that would hurt far more than litigation.

I'm quite sure this quote and additional news articles will out of this.

Take care,
Mike

[hondorner]

You're cynical because you are a litigator; I was skeptical because I've operated a few forums and been a moderator on several others. My skepticism was misplaced this time; I hope your cynicism is, too...:)

[Toranut97]

My husband kept telling me to stop posting because O might withhold our refund if we didn't get to cruise, pending our signing a waiver of right to litigate. (or something like that). All fears were unfounded. Oceania is doing right be us and we are heading out from Chicago tomorrow.

Wowser. I am so glad this board was around so we could air our grievances and find others who knew what should be done. And God bless Mr. Del Rio... and Jan.

An emotionally exhausted but elated cruiser,

Donna

[kaysie]

I sincerely hope you're packed and ready to go on the vacation of a lifetime. I believe, as several others, FDR truly stepped up, addressed and fixed the problem to the best of his ability. Kudos to him and Oceania for still caring, when these days, so few corporate CEO's do.
The reason I'm posting, is because since hearing of your plight, and knowing you booked HAL as an alternative, I don't believe we know if you were able to get a refund from them. What's been nagging at me is a "Lemon Law" I seem to remember, that states, regardless of any "non refundable" status, that if your purchase ANYTHING, you have the right to a refuind should you change your mind within 72 hours. Perhaps the Atttorney's on CC can help out here. I know this existed when I lived in GA for a few years. It was enacted to protect people from impulse, high pressure purchases. If you did not secure a refund from HAL, I would definitely call my credit card company and inquire if you, legally, can back out of this sale. The bonus being, Mr. Del Rio stated any refund you rec'd from HAL would be yours to keep. After all this grief, you surely deserve it. Anyway, as I said, this has been nagging at the back of my head since I saw you had re-booked with HAL. Hopefully they gave you your refund, considering the circumstances, but if not, please explore and see if there are other avenues open to you for a refund.
Best of luck. Again, I'm not an Attorney, and I'm not sure if this law even still exists........But it's just been bugging me, and you know how that goes!
Have a wonderful cruise.
Kaysie

[BeBeReader]

The Lemon Law as I know in my state has to do with automobiles that are lemons. It is a bit complex, but I believe a manufacturer has 3 chances to repair a major defect and then there are remedies. The 3-day law, in NJ at least, deals with the sale of real estate. There is a 3-day attorney review period. The other cruise line probably has no obligation to return the money. They didn't bump anyone. It would be nice if they did, but why start to vilify that cruise line. Mr. Del Rio said Oceania would make good on it.

And please get it - Mr. Del Rio cares about the bottom line. This is the way the business world works, and I don't fault him or Oceania, which is him for all intents and purposes, for that. His profit was threatened yesterday and he reacted with the advice of his advisors, I am sure. This was not a humanitarian gesture on his part, but one necessitated by public outrage. He blew it, as he said, and then he rectified it. In the meantime, as he acknowledged, people suffered emotional distress and others were very concerned about their trips. I'm glad he made good, but why is he now the greatest guy in the world. Oceania still tried to pull a fast one. Thanks to an assertive young woman and this Board, it was caught.

[Toranut97]

All was resolved with HAL through diligent actions by a rep at Oceania, cooperation with our TA (Vacations-to-go) and us. All is well. We leave tomorrow. I am signing off soon -- we are also shifting around the stuff in a couple of rooms so that some painters can come in while we are away. (There wan't enough stress for us before the trip --- we had to add a little more!!)

We are happy and eager to head to Istanbul tomorrow!!

Donna

PS Thanks for your concern!

[kaysie]

Be Be..........Thanks for your input. Perhaps "Lemon Law" was the wrong terminolgy. That did apply to cars. But I still remember a law that had something to do with 72 hours on any purchase. Again, it was years ago, and who knows what it is today.

Toranut.......

I am thrilled you worked things out with HAL, with a bit of help. Good luck with the trip, and, uh, the painters! I'm sure everything will be great. Have a great trip and please do post again when you return! You've made a lot of friends on this Board and we all wish you the best.
Hugs,
Kaysie

[shedevil]

[COLOR="Red"][quote=BeBeReader]Believe it that Mr. Del Rio is never out of town. The world is flat and communications networks are ubiquitous. He has a telephone wherever he goes and access to a Blackberry or like and the internet. Planes have phones. If he goes on vacation, he is still out there listening if there is a crisis--as there was yesterday. ][COLOR]

people sometimes are just not able to be contacted. When Mr. Del Rio states he was out of town. I believe that he was out of town. If he was available and able to respond, don't you think he would have posted a brief response to just slow down the number of postings to that thread.

I would hope that we would allow Mr. Del Rio private time with his family. We are very lucky that Mr. Del Rio reads this board and responds. We should not expect him to be "available" 24/7.

I posted on that thread that we should all give Oceania, the travel agents, and Mr. Del Rio a chance to respond to the situation. Once Mr. Del Rio got involved, the solution was found and apologies made.

I am willing to bet that Oceania will be making sure their overbooking policy and requests for voluntary bumps will be carefully reviewed. A couple of stressful and unfortunate situations for some passengers will help make traveling on Oceania...and probably other cruiselines....better for all of us.

I am glad that the situation was resolved positively.

[ECCruise]

All was resolved with HAL through diligent actions by a rep at Oceania, cooperation with our TA (Vacations-to-go) and us. All is well. We leave tomorrow. I am signing off soon -- we are also shifting around the stuff in a couple of rooms so that some painters can come in while we are away. (There wan't enough stress for us before the trip --- we had to add a little more!!)

We are happy and eager to head to Istanbul tomorrow!!

Donna

PS Thanks for your concern!

So happy that this has turned out positively.
Enjoy Istanbul. Enjoy the entire cruise. Enjoy Oceania.

Bon Voyage!

[dabear]

I am also an attorney licensed in Illinois. Bebe Reader is correct that in most states there are specific statutes but to the best of my knowledge, they apply to real estate or autos. The cruise (similiar to an airline ticket) is a contract and can provide almost anything, including bumping. As I am sure many of you know, airlines do it all the time by overbooking (based upon historical no shows) and then offer comp for anyone to give up seats. Regardless of FDR's motives O did the right thing and hopefully will not let this situation occur again. Bad pr rather than litigation will harm O more.

[Saga Ruby]

I am also an attorney licensed in Illinois. Bebe Reader is correct that in most states there are specific statutes but to the best of my knowledge, they apply to real estate or autos. The cruise (similiar to an airline ticket) is a contract and can provide almost anything, including bumping. As I am sure many of you know, airlines do it all the time by overbooking (based upon historical no shows) and then offer comp for anyone to give up seats. Regardless of FDR's motives O did the right thing and hopefully will not let this situation occur again. Bad pr rather than litigation will harm O more.

How refreshing to hear the voice of reason from an attorney in Illinois instead of the endless flow of vituperation from the upper East Coast which I personally find wearisome. This situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of the original parties. Perhaps it is time for the rest of us to let it go.

I agree about the bad p/r - this entire episode has shown the power of the Web. One would hope that we laymen will consider using the powerful tool of the Internet to ameliorate a rush to litigation which, sadly, is practiced as a contact sport here in the States.

Ruby

[BeBeReader]

Ruby,

Does your Board name stand for the color of your state - red? I'm feeling kind of blue about your comment.

BeBe

[Imagineer]

...glad to hear from dabear, seems there's still a few good lawyers left, as it seems so typical for many other lawyers to only focus on any area where they may profit from possible litigation...that kind of lawyer makes me very ill - and was the main reason my dad left the legal profession years ago, he said it had become a business concerned only with the bottom line whereas he had originally become involved in order to pursue the cause of justice.
...I believe what Frank said to us and am very impressed by his participation and monitoring of this forum, but I still have some faith in folks around me, the sceptics can go their own way and hopefully feel some kind of inner peace from their rantings...

cheers to you all

[Saga Ruby]

...glad to hear from dabear, seems there's still a few good lawyers left, as it seems so typical for many other lawyers to only focus on any area where they may profit from possible litigation...that kind of lawyer makes me very ill - and was the main reason my dad left the legal profession years ago, he said it had become a business concerned only with the bottom line whereas he had originally become involved in order to pursue the cause of justice.
...I believe what Frank said to us and am very impressed by his participation and monitoring of this forum, but I still have some faith in folks around me, the sceptics can go their own way and hopefully feel some kind of inner peace from their rantings...cheers to you all

Ah, Imagineer, you are my new favorite poster. Well said. Frank Del Rio has done everything a corporate president could do to "make it right." Satisfaction with his gestures of conciliation and regret are duly noted and accepted by the original parties as indicated by their very happy thank-you notes posted several pages ago on the original thread.

Everyone at every point of the compass who was actively involved in this situation has accepted the outcome.

Perhaps we will meet on Oceania one day. I'll be the one wearing the red shoes.

To Imagineer and dabear - fair winds and following seas.

Ruby

[dabear]

To Imagineer and Ruby: good sailing to you too. I hope to meet you on some cruise in the future. We've tried a number of the cruiselines and primarily been Celebrity fans. We're trying O from it's reputation and ship (we cruise on the Tahitian Princess, a sister ship and enjoyed it a few years ago).

[Jancruz]

Dabear,
Are you from Chicago??
Stu and I were born and raised there..even graduated the same HS there..
Jan
*************

[NotAPirate]

How refreshing to hear the voice of reason from an attorney in Illinois instead of the endless flow of vituperation from the upper East Coast which I personally find wearisome. This situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of the original parties. Perhaps it is time for the rest of us to let it go.

I agree about the bad p/r - this entire episode has shown the power of the Web. One would hope that we laymen will consider using the powerful tool of the Internet to ameliorate a rush to litigation which, sadly, is practiced as a contact sport here in the States.

Ruby

Huzzah! Regardless of your "political bent," Ruby (what does that have to do with the price of rum in Jamaica?!?), you hit on what most others over in the "other" post have said: It worked out, everyone's happy, let this go!

Oceania was working off of their Operating Procedures, outlined by their ticket contract. It's not as easy some think it is. SOPs are in place to provided specific guidelines, and the ticket contracts/"Terms & Conditions" are worded clearly for the protection of the consumer AND company. Yes, they're usually harsh. Yes, they usually appear draconian. But, thankfully, someone was able to override the company line, but that decision-maker had to be someone with such ability - the CEO, in this case. Joe Blow reservation agent, or revenue agent, or what-not peon was merely acting as directed (yes, probably rather gruffly, maybe could've been more "customer friendly"). Even if they had dearly wanted to, they could not have changed anything at their level. But Seesick and Tora persevered, got some good people in their corner, and worked up the ladder, and things were fixed. No need to go "chasing that ambulance" (sorry, cheap-shot, but topical... and rather funny! :p ).

Let it go, folks, let it go... :rolleyes:

[shedevil]

Ruby,
Does your Board name stand for the color of your state - red? I'm feeling kind of blue about your comment.
BeBe

Hey Ruby,

Isn't that the name of a cruise ship? Formerly owned by the Cunard Line?:cool:

[dabear]

Jancruz: Of course I am from Chicago with a name like "dabear". I grew up on the north side and went to Sullivan HS (just a few years ago, ha). After marriage, we moved to the northern suburbs. Where were you from? By the way, I appreciate your helpful posts. Keep it up. I think our paths will cross in the future. I think it is important to have a good TA like you.

[Jancruz]

LOL..I never thought about dabear..Stu and I are also still Bear fans..we both went to Senn..so we must know lots of the same people..whether the ones we knew are still alive is another question..
When you have time email us..it would be fun to "talk"
Thanks for the kind words..
Jan
*************

[william m holiday]

[COLOR="Red[

[william m holiday]

bebe reader Iwould like to know what Mr Del Rio wrote and where it was posted throught the internetas you stated in your post

[smeyer418]

I am also an attorney licensed in Illinois. Bebe Reader is correct that in most states there are specific statutes but to the best of my knowledge, they apply to real estate or autos. The cruise (similiar to an airline ticket) is a contract and can provide almost anything, including bumping. As I am sure many of you know, airlines do it all the time by overbooking (based upon historical no shows) and then offer comp for anyone to give up seats. Regardless of FDR's motives O did the right thing and hopefully will not let this situation occur again. Bad pr rather than litigation will harm O more.

yes but how much did they have to pay Ralph Nader when they bumped him? Now you see most airlines do the same thing--get volunteers first....they try not to bump anyone involuntarily and then if they can't get you to your destinations within a couple of hours the penalties start to kick in. The difference is that most plane issues get resolved within a day(except for weather when no payments kick in)...a cruise is lost for ever and can't be immediately replaced...

looks like the other thread was pulled...

[Liv4cruzin]

You can find the whole debacle on this board under the thread title, Mr. DelRio, how could you do this...... It's VERY long, gets heated but very interesting.

[BeBeReader]

It is post 122 in that very long thread.

[AirGorilla]

You can find the whole debacle on this board under the thread title, Mr. DelRio, how could you do this...... It's VERY long, gets heated but very interesting.

I looked for it this morning, and the entire thread is MISSING! Have the mods struck again?

[shedevil]

I looked for it this morning, and the entire thread is MISSING! Have the mods struck again?

The entire thread is still on the Oceania board. Since the problem was resolved and no new information that was helpful to resolving the situation, there haven't been any new posts to the thread.

The thread has some good information to help other cruises but towards the end the thread lost focus. So, just scroll down the whole page and you will see the thread. It is the one with over 28,000 views - the only one on the Oceania boards with that many views.

There is lots of great information on old threads and it can be worth while to take a little time to search beyond the first page of threads or just the new posts.

[AirGorilla]

The entire thread is still on the Oceania board. Since the problem was resolved and no new information that was helpful to resolving the situation, there haven't been any new posts to the thread.

The thread has some good information to help other cruises but towards the end the thread lost focus. So, just scroll down the whole page and you will see the thread. It is the one with over 28,000 views - the only one on the Oceania boards with that many views.

There is lots of great information on old threads and it can be worth while to take a little time to search beyond the first page of threads or just the new posts.

Thanks, SheDevil --

I had my settings for only the last two days of new posts, so the thread had disappeared. I re-set them and found it.

I appreciate your help with this!

[sfbear]

Great that you found the thread. Now, can we just let it go ? ? ?:confused:

[ClaudiaF]

the thread that wouldn't die

[janycels]

You can find the whole debacle on this board under the thread title, Mr. Del Rio, how could you do this...... It's VERY long, gets heated but very interesting.

It is on page seven of the above ----"Mr Del Rio, hjow could you do this to my family" ---there are so many pages, this should shorten your search for it.

Jan S

[Jane110]

How refreshing to hear the voice of reason from an attorney in Illinois instead of the endless flow of vituperation from the upper East Coast which I personally find wearisome. This situation has been resolved to the satisfaction of the original parties. Perhaps it is time for the rest of us to let it go.

I agree about the bad p/r - this entire episode has shown the power of the Web. One would hope that we laymen will consider using the powerful tool of the Internet to ameliorate a rush to litigation which, sadly, is practiced as a contact sport here in the States.

Ruby

I agree that there are too many people in this country who think that suing others is an acceptable way to deal with problems.

And I'm sure there's plenty of frivilous lawsuits in Texas too!

[william m holiday]

dear be be reader thanks for the info on where to find Mr. Del Rio responce also read your thread #141 Thanks again new york